Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 Mar 2025

Vol. 1064 No. 4

An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Mary Butler)

I move:

Wednesday’s business shall be:

- Motion re Ministerial Rota for Parliamentary Questions (without debate)

- Statements on the Housing Commission Report (resumed) (not to exceed 2 hrs and 25 mins)

Wednesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Social Housing Tenant in-Situ Scheme, selected by Sinn Féin.

Thursday's business shall be Statements on International Security and International Trade (not to exceed 3 hrs and 32 mins).

Thursday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Young Carers, selected by the Labour Party.

Proposed Arrangements for this week’s business:

In relation to Wednesday’s business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the extent that, notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 34(1)—

(i) private members’ business may be taken later than 6.12 p.m. and shall in any event be taken on the conclusion of the resumed Statements on the Housing Commission Report;

(ii) questions pursuant to Standing Order 47(1) to a Minister other than the Taoiseach shall not be taken; and

(iii) the Dáil shall adjourn on the conclusion of topical issues pursuant to Standing Order 39 which shall be taken on the conclusion of private members’ business;

2. the proceedings on the Motion re Ministerial Rota for Parliamentary Questions shall be taken without debate; and

3. the resumed Statements on the Housing Commission Report shall not exceed 2 hours and 25 minutes and the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:

(i) the arrangements for the statements, not including the Ministerial response, shall be in accordance with the arrangements contained in the table immediately below (to be read across, not down);

(ii) following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and

(iii) members may share time.

	Gov	SF	Lab	Gov	SF
Mins	25	15	10	10	3
	SD	Gov	SF	IPTG	Gov
Mins	10	10	3	9	10
	SF	ITG	Gov	SF	NP/G
Mins	3	9	10	3	5

In relation to Thursday's business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(i) no motion for a Committee report pursuant to Standing Order 111 or private member's Bill pursuant to Standing Order 169 shall be taken;

(ii) private members' business pursuant to Standing Order 168(1) and Standing Order 176 shall be taken for 2 hours on the conclusion of the Statements on International Security and International Trade; and

(iii) topical issues shall be taken on the conclusion of private members' business, and the Dáil shall adjourn on the conclusion of topical issues; and

2. the Statements on International Security and International Trade shall not exceed 3 hours and 32 minutes and the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:

(i) the arrangements for the statements, not including the Ministerial response, shall be in accordance with the arrangements contained in the table immediately below (to be read across, not down);

(ii) following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and

(iii) members may share time.

	Gov	SF	Lab	Gov	SF
Mins	35	25	15	15	5
	SD	Gov	SF	IPTG	Gov
Mins	15	15	5	12	15
	SF	ITG	Gov	SF	NP/G
Mins	5	12	15	5	8

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is that agreed?

Deputies

It is not agreed.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

We are now four months on from the general election and we have only ten more sitting days until the Easter recess. The legislative priority of the Government so far was to get more money for junior Ministers. We have no committees established. The Government has sat on that matter. It has proven itself to be truly a do-nothing Government. The Dáil is effectively in cold storage. The Government priority is to placate Michael Lowry and his underlings with the pretence and fiction that they can carry out Opposition functions in the Dáil.

Deputy Martin Daly

Rubbish.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I ask that the Government desists from this course of action, respects the role we have, as the Opposition, allows us to get on with our work and, dare I suggest it, you get on with yours.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

Many of us in opposition are very concerned to hear the Government suggesting that we are somehow delaying the formation of committees.

Deputy Martin Daly

Of course, you are.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

It is the Government that is seeking to change Standing Orders. The Ceann Comhairle ruled on the Lowry lads’ status to the effect that they are not a technical group in opposition. We in opposition are abiding by that ruling of the Ceann Comhairle. The Government is seeking to change it. It is looking to bring in changes to Standing Orders that we have not seen. Our Whips have not seen the detail of the changes to Standing Orders or sessional orders that the Government is proposing. Apparently, we are going to get that next week. Apparently, it will be pushed to a vote by the Government. In the meantime, committees cannot be formed because the Government is looking to change things. When will we see this wording that we are hearing so much about from the Government? When will the Government accept that people cannot be in government and in opposition at the same time?

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

Nobody is looking to do that.

Deputy Michael Collins

I agree with the previous two speakers in relation to speaking time, and it needs to be resolved as business needs to be done.

Last week, a deal was struck by the Department and the unions on a 9.25% pay increase for many healthcare workers under section 39 contracts. This is to be rolled out over a two-year period. I publicly welcomed this long-awaited move only to realise that the devil is in the detail for section 39 private nursing home staff, who are to be exempted from this pay increase. Private nursing homes are already being hammered by the State, receiving €380 less per patient every week in comparison with public hospitals. They also have to pay for any HIQA upgrades to their nursing homes when ordered to carry them out.

On top of that, does the State expect the residents or families of those living in nursing homes to make up the pay shortfall for these section 39 workers? This section 39 pay increase deal should be fair and across the board. I am calling on the Government to make time available to discuss this critical matter out of respect for every private nursing home staff member and patients and their families across our island and to reverse the very unfair section 39 deal that has been brokered.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

It is 110 days since the general election. This Dáil has sat for 17 days, which is incredible. For 85% of the time since the general election, this Dáil has been off. This is a legislature that cannot legislate. This is a democratically elected parliament that cannot deliver legislation because there are no committees due to the dysfunction here. I wish to propose an amendment under Standing Order 33(3) to the Order of Business to the effect that the Dáil should an extra day this week and an extra day next week in order that we can set about doing the work that is necessary.

Deputy Sinéad Gibney

According to a statement from his office this morning, we understand that the Taoiseach he intends to push for a united and clear European position on the atrocities in Gaza at the meeting of the European Council due to take place tomorrow and on Friday. Having failed last week in the Oval Office to convey the sentiment and solidarity of the people of Ireland regarding Gaza, I respectfully request that we have time this afternoon to hear from the Taoiseach exactly what is the unified and clear position that he is seeking to pursue in Europe.

Deputy Paul Murphy

We need an urgent debate on funding for our schools. Last Thursday, Sacred Heart Junior National School in Killinarden was forced to write to the Department of Education to say that it will be closing its doors on 1 April because it cannot afford to pay its bills. All teaching will be moving online, which is an absolute crisis for the pupils and the families that are affected and which is completely unworkable. Last October, the school flagged with the Department a shortfall of €26,000. Since then, it has got worse. The school has been in constant communication but no funding has been forthcoming. In the past few days, under pressure, the Department made an advance payment to the school, which means it will not close its doors on 1 April. This just kicks the can down the road, however. It does not deal with the fundamental issue of inadequate funding for this junior school, the senior school and many other schools across the country. This is happening while the State gives more than €140 million every year to private schools. Glenstal Abbey, which asks fees of over €14,000 per year from students, got €1.4 million last year. The Department cannot find €40,000 for the school to which I refer. We need to save our schools and we need to debate this in the Dáil.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I cannot call Deputy Heneghan. He is not a member of the Opposition, so he cannot be called.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

The Taoiseach

I have been watching some of Sinn Féin's messaging on social media. It is almost a new style; a new approach. There was a beautiful one this morning about Eoin Ó Broin and his legislation on water and how Eoin had signed it. The Deputy opposite does it with a kind of "I wonder where that came from?" It was as if an executive order had been signed by Deputy Ó Broin in terms of water charges. I come in today and see that we are the do-nothing Government. That sounds familiar, but I suppose people have to keep on learning and innovating in terms of political opposition.

We want to establish Oireachtas committees. We are not holding that up in any shape or form. I respectfully suggest that the Deputies opposite agree to the formation of committees and not get in the way of them being formed. Government is getting on with it. We will continue to do what we have to do in respect of decisions.

We have a parliamentary system here. We have a legislative Chamber. We should be passing legislation. We can do it by plenary session if we have to and we will in terms of legislation that will come forward. We will pass it through the House. If Opposition Deputies do not want to form committees and want to be a barrier to the formation of committees, that is their business.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

We want to form committees.

The Taoiseach

However, we will get legislation done here through plenary methods, but we will engage.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

Why will the Taoiseach not respect the Ceann Comhairle's decision? Michael Lowry-----

The Taoiseach

My understanding is that all the Whips agreed the Dáil calendar. I know we have these empty soundbites coming up that since November we have only met so many times. There was a government being formed since November as Deputy Tóibín knows well, but he just ignores it.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

That is one month not three months.

The Taoiseach

To be fair to him, he did not play a meaningful role in the formation of Government. I acknowledge that. He was an observer of what was going on.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

Seventeen days even for the Taoiseach that must be a record.

The Taoiseach

In the modern era, it takes a long time to form a government. It was actually much shorter this time than in 2020 when I think it took five or six months.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

Is the Taoiseach looking for a medal?

The Taoiseach

This time it was much shorter and probably much shorter than most other European Union member states. By the way, I do not like having a prolonged timeline in terms of the formation of Government. Let us be honest with the public that many Deputies were in here in November, December and January trying to put a government together and trying to get the substance of a programme for Government together, and that happened. Let us not denigrate politicians for the sake of an empty electoral soundbite to make the Deputy look good.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I thank the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

In response to Deputy Collins, private nursing homes are not covered by section 39. As he knows there is a separate financial mechanism. The National Treatment Purchase Fund is the mechanism through which private nursing homes get funded. I agree with him that it was a welcome development that the section 39 issue was resolved through the pay talks.

Deputy Gibney raised the issue of the European Council. As we have in previous Councils and in the Foreign Affairs Council, we have always sought to get the strongest language possible in terms of the appalling atrocities in Gaza and the shocking bombings of the last 48 hours leading to so many innocent children, men and women being killed which is an abhorrence. We will do what we can.

Deputy Paul Murphy

Where is the occupied territories Bill?

The Taoiseach

Others in Europe have a separate perspective.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I thank the Taoiseach. I ask him to conclude.

The Taoiseach

Ireland's fundamental principles on the Middle East remain and have not changed or deviated in any shape or form.

Deputy Paul Donnelly

A thousand people killed in 48 hours and no sanctions.

The Taoiseach

In terms of the Sacred Heart school-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We have had the Order of Business-----

The Taoiseach

Sorry, I thought I could respond to-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There is a time limit on it.

The Taoiseach

I believe the issue Deputy Murphy raised is resolved. The Department has been trying to engage with the school for quite a while since December. It referred the school to the financial support services unit in December. The Department was awaiting information. I think Deputy Lahart was proactively involved in trying to get the issue resolved. I hope we can get it finally and comprehensively resolved.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The amendment to the Order of Business-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

On a point of clarification, I want to inform Deputy McDonald that I am neither lad nor lacky. She gets her instructions from the army council in Belfast.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Resume your seat, Deputy.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I call for some order.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I am happy to clarify that in fact I called the Deputies underlings and not lackies, just for the record.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Resume your seat, Deputy.

We can do this and have a shouting match and nobody will hear anybody. I ask the Members here to please respect the Chair and respect each other. If they continue to shout across each other, we will not get any business done. They should use their time wisely.

Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran

When the Leader of the Opposition calls us lackies it is a disgrace.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I called them underlings not lackies.

Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran

It is a disgrace. How dare she.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Minister, please-----

(Interruptions).

Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran

I was elected by the people in Longford-Westmeath

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

He was and he will speak here in an orderly fashion. I ask him please not to raise his voice across the Chamber. He is just wasting time.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle-----

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

For the avoidance of doubt, they are in fact underlings and not lackies. I am happy to clarify that.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle-----

Question put: "That the amendment to the Order of Business is hereby negatived and the proposed arrangements for the week's business are hereby agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 84; Níl, 69; Staon, 0.

Tá

• Aird, William.
• Ardagh, Catherine.
• Boland, Grace.
• Brabazon, Tom.
• Brennan, Brian.
• Brennan, Shay.
• Brophy, Colm.
• Browne, James.
• Burke, Colm.
• Burke, Peter.
• Butler, Mary.
• Butterly, Paula.
• Buttimer, Jerry.
• Byrne, Thomas.
• Cahill, Michael.
• Callaghan, Catherine.
• Calleary, Dara.
• Canney, Seán.
• Carrigy, Micheál.
• Carroll MacNeill, Jennifer.
• Chambers, Jack.
• Cleere, Peter 'Chap'.
• Clendennen, John.
• Collins, Niall.
• Connolly, John.
• Cooney, Joe.
• Currie, Emer.
• Daly, Martin.
• Dempsey, Aisling.
• Devlin, Cormac.
• Dillon, Alan.
• Dolan, Albert.
• Donohoe, Paschal.
• Feighan, Frankie.
• Fleming, Seán.
• Foley, Norma.
• Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
• Geoghegan, James.
• Harkin, Marian.
• Harris, Simon.
• Healy-Rae, Danny.
• Healy-Rae, Michael.
• Heneghan, Barry.
• Heydon, Martin.
• Keogh, Keira.
• Lahart, John.
• Lowry, Michael.
• Martin, Micheál.
• Maxwell, David.
• McAuliffe, Paul.
• McCarthy, Noel.
• McConalogue, Charlie.
• McCormack, Tony.
• McEntee, Helen.
• McGrath, Mattie.
• McGrath, Séamus.
• McGreehan, Erin.
• Moran, Kevin Boxer.
• Moynihan, Aindrias.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Moynihan, Shane.
• Murnane O'Connor, Jennifer.
• Murphy, Michael.
• Neville, Joe.
• O'Callaghan, Jim.
• O'Connell, Maeve.
• O'Connor, James.
• O'Dea, Willie.
• O'Donnell, Kieran.
• O'Meara, Ryan.
• O'Shea, John Paul.
• O'Sullivan, Christopher.
• O'Sullivan, Pádraig.
• Ó Cearúil, Naoise.
• Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
• Ó Muirí, Naoise.
• Richmond, Neale.
• Roche, Peter.
• Scanlon, Eamon.
• Smyth, Niamh.
• Timmins, Edward.
• Toole, Gillian.
• Troy, Robert.
• Ward, Barry.

Níl

• Ahern, Ciarán.
• Bacik, Ivana.
• Bennett, Cathy.
• Boyd Barrett, Richard.
• Brady, John.
• Buckley, Pat.
• Byrne, Joanna.
• Carthy, Matt.
• Clarke, Sorca.
• Collins, Michael.
• Connolly, Catherine.
• Coppinger, Ruth.
• Cronin, Réada.
• Crowe, Seán.
• Cullinane, David.
• Cummins, Jen.
• Daly, Pa.
• Devine, Máire.
• Doherty, Pearse.
• Donnelly, Paul.
• Farrelly, Aidan.
• Farrell, Mairéad.
• Gannon, Gary.
• Gibney, Sinéad.
• Gogarty, Paul Nicholas.
• Gould, Thomas.
• Graves, Ann.
• Guirke, Johnny.
• Hayes, Eoin.
• Healy, Seamus.
• Hearne, Rory.
• Kelly, Alan.
• Kenny, Eoghan.
• Kenny, Martin.
• Kerrane, Claire.
• Lawless, Paul.
• Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
• McDonald, Mary Lou.
• McGettigan, Donna.
• McGuinness, Conor D.
• Mitchell, Denise.
• Murphy, Paul.
• Mythen, Johnny.
• Nash, Ged.
• Newsome Drennan, Natasha.
• Ní Raghallaigh, Shónagh.
• O'Callaghan, Cian.
• O'Donoghue, Robert.
• O'Flynn, Ken.
• O'Gorman, Roderic.
• O'Hara, Louis.
• O'Reilly, Louise.
• O'Rourke, Darren.
• Ó Broin, Eoin.
• Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• Ó Súilleabháin, Fionntán.
• Quaide, Liam.
• Quinlivan, Maurice.
• Rice, Pádraig.
• Sheehan, Conor.
• Sherlock, Marie.
• Smith, Duncan.
• Stanley, Brian.
• Tóibín, Peadar.
• Wall, Mark.
• Ward, Charles.
• Ward, Mark.
• Whitmore, Jennifer.

Staon

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Mary Butler and Emer Currie; Níl, Deputies Pádraig Mac Lochlainn and Peadar Tóibín.

Question declared carried.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Israel has resumed its genocidal war on the people of Gaza. Some 970 deaths over the past 48 hours have been reported by health authorities, the majority children, women and the elderly. Those who have died have died hungry. The attack follows Israel's total blockade of humanitarian aid to Gaza, and doctors watch people die before their eyes. This is the horrific result of the impunity handed to Israel. Netanyahu has shattered the ceasefire because he knew he could without consequence. These airstrikes have been launched with the support of the United States and only days after the Taoiseach met President Trump in the Oval Office. The Taoiseach had the opportunity to respectfully challenge President Trump on the US getting it so catastrophically wrong in Gaza and on backing Israel's war machine to the hilt, but it was an opportunity the Taoiseach did not take. Now the people of Gaza are slaughtered once again.

How is it that the Taoiseach has briefed that the Government is walking away from the occupied territories Bill? Will he now say what he should have said in the Oval Office and set out our abhorrence of events again in Gaza and the US continuing to fund that slaughter?

The Taoiseach

First of all, I condemn the horrendous atrocity over the last two days in terms of the bombing of innocent men, women and children. I have not briefed anything of the sort the Deputy suggested. Again, if she had consulted me, she might have got the truth, but she decides just to go for the propaganda. That is what it is about.

In my remarks in the Oval Office, I very succinctly articulated Ireland's position-----

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

You did not.

The Taoiseach

-----on the Middle East, and it is on the record. For the life of me, I will never understand why Deputy McDonald did not go to Capitol Hill.

Deputy Thomas Gould

Ah, stop.

Deputy Joanna Byrne

That is not what this is about.

The Taoiseach

The reason I will never understand it is-----

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I am not the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

-----that the Deputy has many friends-----

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I do.

The Taoiseach

-----on Capitol Hill. She has many funders in America who have funded her organisation. She has many business contacts.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Correct.

The Taoiseach

She meets with many developers in the United States. I think the reason she did not go to the United States is that she did not want to face them in respect of the different American perspective on the Middle East.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Jesus, that is pathetic.

The Taoiseach

I have no issue with going and articulating the fundamental principled stance Ireland has taken.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

The Taoiseach did not do that.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy dodged it deliberately and decided to stay at home, which I think was a mistake and robs her of any credibility in attacking me or criticising me in respect of this issue.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

You sang dumb, Taoiseach.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

It is deeply distressing to see the resumption of Israel's brutal bombardment on the people of Gaza and horrific to hear Netanyahu describe Israeli airstrikes as "only the beginning". We have already seen horrific levels of deaths of civilians, including children, and what little hope was left for the population of Gaza seems to be gone, with barely any aid reaching civilians. Our moral obligation to act is stronger than ever.

There are disturbing reports from Washington that the Taoiseach said the occupied territories Bill was no longer on the legislative calendar. Could he clarify his position on the Bill? Now is the time to act to express our collective horror at what is happening with Israel. Could the Taoiseach also use his time at the European Council this week to confirm to other European leaders the need to take stronger actions against Israel and to adopt stronger sanctions at European level, in particular to target Israeli-held assets and financial interests, to ensure that any power we can use within the EU and nationally is used to stop the slaughter in Gaza.

The Taoiseach

Again, I did not do that in any shape or form. In any interactions I had, I articulated that the programme for Government was progressing the occupied territories Bill. I made that very clear and I listed out all the actions we had taken, which are well known to the House.

Fundamentally, however, it seems to me that Prime Minister Netanyahu, irrespective of what gets said here or what gets said in Europe, is hell-bent on his own political survival at an horrendous cost to innocent children and civilians within Gaza. We have consistently called for a ceasefire from the get-go, being one of the first European Union countries to do so. Our view is that that ceasefire needed to be consolidated - on both sides, by the way. I think Hamas's behaviour during the first phase was reprehensible also and how it has treated hostages has been reprehensible. All hostages should be released now unconditionally, in my view. Equally, however, the war should stop. It is morally bankrupt to bomb children to their death in the manner that has happened in the past two days.

Deputy Jennifer Whitmore

An Bord Pleanála has just approved planning permission for Shannon LNG's new power plant in Tarbert. While it is not yet clear exactly how that will be fuelled, it looks likely that it will be LNG. What is very clear is the Taoiseach's Government's U-turn on the use of LNG and fracked gas. Decision after decision of the Government is locking us into a fossil-fuelled future. That is the reality of it. It looks like the Government has very firmly opened the door to US LNG and fracked gas. Did the Taoiseach have any discussions with Donald Trump about LNG and its importation from the US?

The Taoiseach

No, I did not, but I am interested in how the Deputy is conflating the Bord Pleanála decision - I hope she accepts that An Bord Pleanála is an independent body-----

Deputy Jennifer Whitmore

I did not conflate anything.

The Taoiseach

I am just making the point that I hope that everybody accepts that it is an independent body. Its decision should not be conflated with an earlier decision of the Government in respect of energy security, which is required. The legal opinion, by the way, to the previous Minister, which is on file in the Department, is such that, legally, it is not possible to prohibit fracked gas as to what comes in, including through the British gas pipelines that come into Ireland, from where we get most of our gas. It is not legally possible in terms of the source of various gases we import.

We import the vast majority and we then have the Corrib gas field. We have done no U-turn. In fact, in the previous Government, proposals had been prepared around a national gas security reserve. Why was this? It was because if anything happened to those pipelines, the Irish economy and society would be in deep trouble. It is as simple as that. I put the energy security question to the entire House. Are people suggesting we do not have any security at all or any backup?

Deputy Jennifer Whitmore

We want transparency.

The Taoiseach

There is full transparency. The Government took a decision and announced it, you know.

Deputy Ciarán Ahern

There is a commercial operation-----

Deputy Jennifer Whitmore

There is a new report on this-----

The Taoiseach

The energy security piece is separate to An Bord Pleanála's decision.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The topics discussed during the EU leaders' retreat included an arming up of Europe, and also relations with the US. I want the Taoiseach to comment on how he thinks his diplomatic mission went in the US. He said that Donald Trump was in pursuit of peace and then about 48 hours later he colluded with an horrific massacre in Gaza in which 400 people died. The Taoiseach smiled and nodded as Donald Trump said his favourite person from Ireland was Conor McGregor. Lo and behold, on St. Patrick's Day-----

The Taoiseach

I did not say that.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The Taoiseach stayed silent and then joked about his father being a boxer. On St. Patrick's Day, two rapists met each other-----

(Interruptions).

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

-----in the White House, two men found guilty by juries to be rapists. We had the sight on St. Patrick's Day of Conor McGregor representing this country's views. It was an insult to the country. Actually, it was an insult to the Government because he slated it. So much for the Taoiseach's diplomatic mission with Trump. It was an insult to women. When you normalise genocide and misogyny, this is what happens.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I actually asked the Taoiseach before he went how he felt about dealing with a sexual predator like Donald Trump and this was the insult he delivered to the Government and to our people on St. Patrick's Day.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Conclude Deputy, please.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The Taoiseach's visit was completely obliterated and overshadowed by the real Donald Trump.

The Taoiseach

The engagement and the visit to the US honours a long tradition of celebrating Irish America and the role it played in the building of America and the historic ties that exist. I know the Deputy would prefer if they had never existed because, in fairness to her, she has had a very consistent anti-American position for decades.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

Hilarious.

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

Irrespective of who is President, that has been the Deputy's position, but there are very significant economic links with the US. Thousands of Irish-----

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I did not ask about that.

The Taoiseach

Over------

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I asked about the pursuit of peace by Donald Trump.

The Taoiseach

I am sorry. The Deputy asked me a question about my trip to the US and if I thought it was this, that and the other. I just wish to make a very fundamental point. Hundreds of thousands of jobs in this country depend on that economic relationship. Many workers out there are working in multinational companies and so on.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I did not ask the Taoiseach about that.

The Taoiseach

Well, the Deputy did.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

No, I asked about-----

The Taoiseach

The Deputy did ask me about that.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

No, I asked the Taoiseach about Conor McGregor, a rapist representing this country-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am sorry, Deputy. You have asked your question. I ask the Taoiseach to please conclude the answer.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The Taoiseach has said nothing about it yet.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Resume your seat, Deputy.

The Taoiseach

I did. I publicly stated my position on Conor McGregor, but the Deputy asked me how did the trip go and did I think it was a success and so on.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

You stayed silent while Donald Trump said-----

The Taoiseach

Sure, I am not getting a chance-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That concludes that question.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy also twisted it a lot to suit her own agenda.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I thank-----

The Taoiseach

In my view, she did not ask it in an honest, upfront or truthful manner either.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I thank the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

I have no truck with the-----

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I am sure you were disgusted, yeah.

The Taoiseach

-----masculine toxicity of Mr. McGregor, but he is not a Member of this House.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

What about Trump's toxic masculinity?

The Taoiseach

I do not want to give him any-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Taoiseach has made the point and the question is answered. Let us move on.

The Taoiseach

I just want to say on the peace front, I genuinely believe that we need an end to both wars. I have said this repeatedly. It is a fact of record that President Trump's envoy did act very effectively in terms of getting the ceasefire in the first instance. That is documented, along with the work of President Biden's envoy. On Ukraine, it is-----

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

That is snakey language. Absolute snake.

The Taoiseach

Now, I am disappointed with what happened yesterday. It is not sufficient at all what happened yesterday in terms of a ceasefire, but Europe needs an end to the Ukrainian war on a sustainable and fair basis and all of us in Europe are pursuing that end.

Deputy Michael Collins

Almost every day here we talk about housing targets. Today, in one leading newspaper, an article states that this Government will be 13,000 homes behind the 2027 targets it set last November. This is one crisis that must be resolved immediately. Another crisis, though, is rural, one-off planning. It is almost grinding to a halt. I have up to ten people coming to me weekly in west Cork. In some cases, they have spent thousands of euro in this regard. I refer to young people trying to get a start out in life, but every obstacle is put in front of them to block them from getting planning permission. It is not that long ago that I mentioned in the Dáil a young lady who had spent €10,000 to get planning permission relating to a family farm on a west Cork island only to be turned down. I am not pointing the finger at planners, but I am pointing the finger at those who wrote the negative rural planning guidelines that are almost impossible to get through. Only a couple of weeks ago, the Government put forward proposals for timber cabins, which I welcomed. Will the Government now bring forward legislation to change rural planning guidelines immediately to allow people from their own area to get planning permission in a fair and reasonable way?

The Taoiseach

The Deputy has raised a fair point, although some planning permissions do get through in west Cork, as the Deputy acknowledges. I think the guidelines do need some review, especially concerning people on farms and the children of farming communities, to maintain a sustainable community in certain areas. This is particularly the case with the improvements in technology, wastewater and so on. Again, on the other side of the coin, if we have too much of this, then we will have what happened in Storm Éowyn, where many people in very remote areas were bereft of services. It does, therefore, create challenges as well for our communications system and electricity grid. We cannot ignore the implications. I know the Deputy is not suggesting this, but if we had a free-for-all situation, then we would have fairly significant challenges emerging fairly quickly after that.

Deputy Peter 'Chap' Cleere

I take this opportunity to congratulate the Taoiseach on his recent trip to America to represent Ireland. He did so with dignity and honour. While many people in this Chamber would have preferred that the Taoiseach had stayed at home and sat on his hands, he did not. He wore the green jersey with pride and I thank him for that.

I wish to talk specifically about the school transport scheme. As we all know, it is open to applications now. A review was completed in February 2024 and some changes were recommended. One concerned the eligibility criteria being examined, especially in terms of the nearest school rule. I have had parents contacting me from Mullinavat, Listerlin, Knochmoylan, Kells, Gowran and all over the constituency of Carlow-Kilkenny. They are worried and anxious to see if their children are going to get a school transport place. They are left waiting months and months to see if their child will be allocated a concessionary ticket. Last year, we had 250 children in County Kilkenny and 100 in County Carlow who did not receive a ticket at all. Finding out three or four days before school starts is not fair on hard-working parents who are then put under serious pressure to make alternative arrangements. I am just looking for an update on the eligibility criteria element regarding the nearest schools.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. I appreciate the concerns of and pressures on the parents in his constituency. At the moment, the school transport scheme sees about 172,000 children transported daily in approximately 7,900 vehicles across 10,300 routes. It is a very complex scheme. It includes over 143,800 pupils travelling on primary and post-primary services. There are also the special education needs services and so forth. In the context of the review of the scheme, a total of 14 pilot projects are under way this school year and funding has been provided for them. Essentially, however, we need to get through the completion of those pilots with a view to lessons being learned for application across the system. I do not understate what is required here or the challenges that will be involved. They will be significant.

Deputy Naoise Ó Muirí

I again wish to raise the issue of the accommodation recognition payment, ARP. In the midst of the awful ongoing conflict between Ukraine and Russia, it is vital that we try to give some certainty to our Ukrainian guests here in Ireland who are still here having fled their homeland and to those households around this country who generously took in those people in an act of humanity and social solidarity. Families need to be able to plan for their future, even in the short term. Can the Taoiseach outline when he expects the final decision will be made in relation to extending the ARP scheme? I ask this because it comes to an end in its current form at the end of March. Can the Taoiseach give us any insight into the scheme being reconfigured or streamlined in any way? Does the Taoiseach have any updates on an EU-wide consideration of the temporary protection directive and where we will be going with that in 2026 and beyond?

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. There will be a decision made before the end of the month and clarity and certainty brought to this topic. I think it needs to be said, though, that it has been a very generously resourced scheme by the Government. It has played a very significant role in accommodating Ukrainians fleeing from war.

Originally, it started out at €400. It went up to €800. The Minister will bring clarity to that before the end of the month.

Deputy Thomas Gould

There are approximately 100 children with additional needs in Cork who do not have a school place this September. Their parents are putting up a Trojan campaign to force the Government to provide their children with a place. There are rumours that there will be an announcement this week about a new special school in Carrignavar. Will the Taoiseach confirm if that will be announced this week? Will it be open in September? Have the issues with water affecting the Carrignavar area been sorted out? I spoke to a mother before I came into the Chamber who is at her wits' end because her child has no school place. Children from Knocknaheeny are going to Macroom, children from Farranree are going to Carrigaline and another 100 children have nowhere to go. Every child is entitled to an education. Will the Taoiseach let those parents know that every child will have a place in September?

The Taoiseach

I pay tribute to the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Moynihan, who has spent a lot of time over the past number of days meeting parents and schools-----

Deputy Thomas Gould

He has not met them.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Gould.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy asked a question.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Allow the Taoiseach to answer.

The Taoiseach

People need to learn.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Kelly, please.

The Taoiseach

All I want to say is the Minister of State, Deputy Moynihan, met schools, the ETB and parents. He is fully on top of this issue. He realises the challenges. He is fully determined, along with me and the Government, to get this issue resolved for parents before September.

Deputy Thomas Gould

Will they have a place, yes or no?

Deputy Alan Kelly

Yesterday, again, on "Prime Time", journalist Joe Galvin raised the issue of the Israeli company Cellebrite used by the PSNI to crack the phones of journalists Barry McCaffrey and Trevor Birney. There has been an overlap in personnel between the PSNI from that time and An Garda Síochána since then. It has also been reported that Meta, which owns WhatsApp, announced that up to 100 journalists' phones were compromised by another Israeli company, Paragon Solutions. This is right on our doorstep, up North and across the water. Will the Taoiseach guarantee to this House and the public watching that no journalists, public representatives or members of civic society are in any way being targeted with the use of such technology by any arm of the State? What is the Government doing to protect our communications from spyware, particularly the use of WhatsApp, which has now been compromised in many jurisdictions?

The Taoiseach

The technology is one thing. The use of the technology and who uses is the issue.

Deputy Alan Kelly

Absolutely. Agreed.

The Taoiseach

That technology, I understand, was used to solve a murder case. It is very positive-----

Deputy Alan Kelly

Agreed.

The Taoiseach

-----that the person was found out by proper utilisation of this technology.

Deputy Alan Kelly

Agreed.

The Taoiseach

I think it is a Japanese-owned company now but my understanding is that the technology is Israeli. In respect of any State agency, the Garda or the Defence Forces, there is a legislative basis by which there has to be a request to the Ministers and there is a judicial overview of how any surveillance-----

Deputy Alan Kelly

Really?

The Taoiseach

On behalf of the State, in terms of national security. That is well known. It is documented before the House.

Deputy Alan Kelly

What about the Garda?

The Taoiseach

Yes. It is well known. There is a set procedure. The Deputy knows that, in terms of national security. That is the only area where the State comes in. Obviously, the Garda tries to solve crimes and we have to trust in-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Thank you, Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

-----An Garda Síochána.

Deputy David Cullinane

I again raise with the Taoiseach - I raised this issue with the Tánaiste a number of weeks ago - the need to provide the funding for the runway extension at Waterford Airport. I have raised it several times with the Taoiseach over the past number of years. I spoke to a member of the airport board this morning, who told me there has been no contact between the Minister or Minister of State and the board. He told me a decision is needed very quickly - in fact, in the next number of weeks - on the State funding and that if that decision is not made favourably, this year will be lost and no works will happen until the following year, if the money is given.

The Taoiseach knows that commitment was given in 2019. I was at a meeting of Oireachtas Members, as was the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, and others at the time. Here we are in 2025 and there is still no decision. The Taoiseach said in the past he was supportive of this, which I accept, but we need to get it over the line. The funding has to be provided. Will the Taoiseach directly intervene to ensure a year is not lost and that funding is provided?

The Taoiseach

My understanding is the Minister is considering the issue. I will talk to him when he gets back and let the Deputy know.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We are over time so I ask each of the remaining Deputies, with the agreement of the House, to ask their questions quickly and then there will be a single answer from the Taoiseach.

Deputy James O'Connor

I wish to ask the Taoiseach about coming tariffs and what they could do in particular to the whiskey industry in Ireland. I was with the Taoiseach in Washington DC this week. He did a difficult but good job representing the country. We are concerned about the impact coming tariffs could have on Irish Distillers. Could there be an investigation to see if bourbon could be excluded from EU tariffs to protect the Irish whiskey industry? We must recognise the role Midleton plays across the world with Irish Distillers. Some of our best known brands include Redbreast, Jameson and Midleton. The tariffs could have an impact on marketing our agrifood across the world.

Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty

I congratulate the Taoiseach on surviving a diplomatic balancing act at the White House last Wednesday. I am sure he will agree the decision to invite a thug in a suit on our actual national day to what in effect was a rapists' convention was a gross insult to the people of Ireland and especially to the women of Ireland. In one context, we can shrug it off but at another level, this represents a deliberate if not pathetic attempt to interfere in our electoral processes given that said individual has on multiple occasions indicated he wishes to run for the Presidency. That Administration may not understand our nomination process but it wanted to send a message nonetheless. Is there a protocol for calling out such blatant interference? If there is not, perhaps it is time we developed one.

Deputy Claire Kerrane

I wish to raise the sudden closure of the humanitarian assistance scheme, which has now locked out many people seeking support following Storm Éowyn. This was not advertised or publicised. Offices are turning people with forms away. The ESB will not show any goodwill or common decency - it is going ahead with charging people for a service they did not have. I am disappointed the Government as the majority owner did not step in. People are still without landlines 54 days after the storm. I am aware of people in their 80s and 90s without their panic alarms because they do not have a landline. I do not know what Eir is doing. Will the Taoiseach ensure those genuine cases of people affected by the storm can access the humanitarian assistance scheme? I have no issue if a date to end it has to be put in place but that should be publicised and communicated before it closes, not after.

Deputy Ryan O'Meara

UHL offers the only emergency department for a catchment of approximately 400,000 people across north Tipperary, Clare and Limerick. It is the only emergency department in Ireland with such a large population depending on it. The people I represent do not believe one emergency department is enough for the mid-west region, with north Tipperary feeling services are inadequate, particularly while we wait for the 96-bed unit to be opened this summer. The last time I asked this question, we were awaiting the interim report from HIQA in relation to the need for a second emergency department in the region. I understand that interim report has now been provided to the Minister. Has the Minister considered that report to date? Will it be published? When is the final report from HIQA on this matter expected?

Deputy Emer Currie

The Government has a responsibility to increase Garda numbers nationally. That commitment is reflected in the programme for Government but I have a duty to highlight the challenges in Dublin West and the K district, one of the most demanding policing districts in the country. There are significant and concerning differences in garda numbers in the K district versus neighbouring districts. It can be as high as one garda for every 531 people in the K area versus one garda per 397 in a neighbouring district and that neighbouring district has 40% lower crime statistics. Will the Taoiseach and Minister for Justice invite the Garda Commissioner to report on garda levels allocated to all Dublin metropolitan region districts with reference to population and crime levels, as part of work to address Garda retention and recruitment?

The Taoiseach

Deputy Cullinane raised the issue of the runway and the airport. I dealt with that already. In response to Deputy O'Connor, Jameson is a world-class product. There is enormous investment going on in the Midleton plant and in a new one and obviously there is huge concern about how the tariffs will proceed. Let us remember that the European Union does not want any tariffs. The US Government has started this with a resumption of tariffs on steel and aluminium. The EU has re-enacted what it already had in place the last time but there is a public consultation period. We invite all companies to engage with and input into that. We will be engaging with the Commission. Obviously there has to be a comprehensive response to any tariffs that will be announced on 2 April. The EU will be allowing a bit of time after 2 April before it responds. The EU will adopt a strategic approach, which is what we will push for, that tries to leverage the best outcome possible for the European Union. Be in no doubt that we do not want a tariff war in Europe. It would be damaging to the economy and already we are seeing forecasts of a negative impact on GDP.

In response to Deputy Gogarty, I am not too sure it is an election interference event. In terms of Mr. McGregor, as I have articulated publicly, I fundamentally disagree with what he said. In some respects, perhaps, he craves attention-----

Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty

They gave it to him, talking about him on our national holiday.

The Taoiseach

It might be wiser of us not to facilitate that.

My understanding is that the humanitarian scheme is not fully closed yet. I do not think the Minister has closed it. I will ask him to engage with Deputy Kerrane and update her in respect of it.

In response to Deputy Currie, while the operation of An Garda Síochána is an operational matter. I will raise the issues she has raised here with the Minister.

I will ask the Minister for Health to reply to Deputy O'Meara now.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

I just want to observe with regard to UHL that over the bank holiday weekend in February, 140 people were waiting on trolleys but this weekend there were 79. That is a 56% reduction and it should be like that all the time. There is huge capacity going into Limerick in terms of the 96-bed block and a second one. There will be 582 new beds delivered. An interim report by HIQA was brought to me and I will probably publish it today. I can tell the House now that it is basically a summary of the work that has been done to date in terms of the schedule of meetings, the stakeholders that have been involved and so on. It does not make any commitments or suggestions about the direction of travel that will be in its final report, which I expect to receive in May. We have had a 56% reduction in a number of weeks based on changed working practices. There were 230 people waiting on trolleys over the weekend and Limerick alone contributed 79 of those. It is possible to reduce trolley numbers and the pressure in emergency departments by changing work practices alone. There was a 70% reduction nationally. This is possible without additional infrastructure but by changing work practices, in large part.