Skip to main content
Normal View

JOINT COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD debate -
Wednesday, 20 Feb 2008

Genetically Modified Foods: Discussion with Minister of State.

I would like to thank the committee for inviting me here, again, today to speak about the commitment in the programme for Government which seeks to negotiate the establishment of an all-Ireland GM free zone. As Minister of State, the key objectives I am pursuing relate to wider issues that this is part of and these are to enhance the premier position held by Irish agriculture in the European market; to ensure that Ireland becomes less dependent on imported feed and to ensure secure, sustainable and affordable supplies of feed for Irish farmers; and to secure affordable supplies of organic and non-GM feed for those Irish farmers who are pursuing emerging organic and non-GM markets. I believe the fulfilment of these objectives is essential to the future success of Irish agriculture.

The issue of modern biotechnology has become very topical over the past decade or so. We all see, and many of us have experienced, the benefits biotechnological advancements in the area of medicine and pharmaceuticals have brought and I wholeheartedly applaud advancements such as developments in the production of insulin for the treatment of diabetes. However, it is the use of this technology in the area of modern agriculture and food production that is causing concern.

Last year over 95% of all GM cultivation took place in six countries as follows: The US — 50%, Argentina — 17%, Brazil — 13%, Canada — 6%, India — 5% and China — 3%. Four GM crops make up almost 100% of the cultivation: GM soya — 57%, GM maize — 25%, GM cotton — 13% and GM oilseed rape — 5%. The latter is referred to in the US and Canada as canola.

Various EU consumer and market surveys have shown that people have concerns about the use of this technology in the open environment. I am sure it will come as no surprise that I share many of those concerns. The Council of Ministers and the European Parliament has introduced GM legislation which governs the approval, cultivation, use and labelling of GM products. This legislation is binding on all member states.

There is now a high degree of resistance within the EU to the introduction of GM crops and products. This has been reflected in votes at the EU Council of Ministers. Surveys have shown that in excess of 70% of EU consumers have indicated a preference for food products derived from animals not fed on GM feedstuffs. I believe it is in the interest of all involved in marketing Irish food to take cognisance of this.

Notwithstanding the fact that all of the GM applications considered by Council since July 2003, with one exception, were for the importation of food or feed consisting of or containing a GM event, rather than for cultivation, none achieved qualified majority support from the member states. Ireland's abstention on the recent votes on approving GM feed was the most appropriate position to take given that a process has been established involving relevant Departments — the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, the Department of Health and Children and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government — to elaborate this commitment and tease out its implications for policy. The French, Italians and others are involved in similar processes, and some have gone considerably further than Ireland, indeed, as we may be able to discuss later.

As EU Governments, in line with consumer surveys, have been reluctant to approve these products, it has fallen to the Commission, under comitology rules, to approve applications. In Ireland, we do not have, and we never have had, any commercial cultivation of GM crops. This situation is likely to continue, and that is the feedback I get from talking to farm organisations as well. I acknowledge that in the past 12 months there have been difficulties for farmers depending on feed concentrates, with the price of imported feed materials increasing by as much as 80%. The following are the main factors involved: increased demand worldwide for which there are many reasons, not least population growth; diversion of feed for the production of biofuels, which has made an enormous impact in the US; reduced supplies arising from the unfavourable weather conditions and climate change effects in several cereal producing regions such as Australia which has been severely affected; increased freight charges, a growing problem with peak oil on the horizon and oil prices now breaking the $100 a barrel mark; increased fertiliser prices, given that fertiliser is so energy dependent; Ireland's dependence on international feed markets; and trading difficulties due the lack of synchronised GM feed authorisation processes between the USA and the EU.

Some of these issues were covered by officials from my Department who appeared before the committee on 23 January 2008. I can assure the committee that the Department is doing all it can to address the current feed price situation. Last Friday, I visited a number of feed mills and spoke with farmers who are facing major difficulties in covering the rising cost of feed. I have consistently said that the commitment in the programme for Government is not about banning imported feed but rather about seeking to negotiate the establishment of an all Ireland GM-free zone so that we can avoid the release of live GMOs into the Irish environment. We are thinking of all farmers in this regard, not just organic farmers. Conventional farmers would also be affected if crossover were to occur with GMOs. The process of elaborating and teasing out the implications of the commitment is ongoing. A senior officials group chaired by the Department of the Taoiseach has considered matters and has identified issues which arise. These issues have been referred back for further evaluation and consideration to individual Departments.

Several Departments have responsibility for aspects of GM policy. The Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has responsibility for the deliberate release of GMs into the environment, including for crop cultivation. The Department of Health and Children has responsibility for GM food safety and consumer protection. The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food has responsibility for the regulation of GM feed and seeds, including the co-existence of GM crops to ensure compliance with GM labelling regulations, if such crops were ever to be grown in Ireland. The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment has responsibility for developments in the biotechnology industry and in research and development.

Issues relating to the initial authorisation or otherwise of crops for cultivation in Ireland are primarily a matter for the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. However, my Department will work closely with that Department to ensure that all relevant factors are fully considered in decisions to be taken.

In conclusion, I would like to refer again to my own objectives as Minister of State, which are to enhance the premier position of Irish food in the European market, to secure sustainable and affordable supplies of feed for Irish farmers, and to encourage and facilitate those Irish farmers who are pursuing emerging organic and non-GM markets. A significant number of conventional and organic farmers are finding that non-GM feed is difficult to source, and that organic feed is being bought by non-organic farmers who want to avoid a GM component. If they are selling to any one of the large multiples that have specified a non-GM feed, such as Coop Italia, they are left with few options. These objectives build on the excellent work carried out by Bord Bia to promote Ireland as a clean, green quality food-producing island. We need to ensure that such a reputation is upheld, and the attainment of the objectives is essential for Ireland's economic well being. I hope that we can work together to ensure that we build that reputation as a clean, green food island.

I thank the Minister of State for his presentation. I omitted to welcome his colleagues, some of whom were at the committee on 23 January and who made interesting submissions and observations on this issue. I am anxious that we have a rational, informed, scientifically based debate on genetically modified food and feed. We should leave outside any baggage that we might bring to the table, in order to reach a consensus. It will be a key issue in the agricultural industry in Ireland and across the globe in the not too distant future, if it is not so already.

The Minister stated that his objectives build on the excellent work carried out by Bord Bia to promote Ireland as a clean, green quality food producing island. The reality today is that Bord Bia is marketing food produced here from animals that are fed with a genetically modified feed component. While I accept that there is consumer hostility to a certain degree, I also believe there is a huge vacuum in public information. We need to have this public debate so that we can inform people who can then make rational choices. The danger is that people will get painted into corners. I am not promoting exclusively a GM feed industry, but I do make the point that while there is room for a non-GM stream and for organic food, it is equally impossible overnight to turn around a multi-billion euro industry and close off the pipeline that has given it access to GM feed until now.

I believe it was Mr. Ryan who on 23 January described the policy towards GM food, prior to the establishment of the new Government, as positive but precautionary. The reality now is that the policy is hostile to GM feed. I respect the policy position of the Green Party, even though I do not agree with it. By virtue of that party's participation in the Government, there is a policy towards a GM-free island. I am still at a loss as to what that means in terms of policy, but it is impossible to turn around a multi-billion euro industry overnight and close off that access. Commentators like Professor Jimmy Burke from Teagasc have stated that the availability of non-GM feed component will virtually disappear entirely. These are the realities to which we must face up.

In the past week we have seen a mill closure in Cavan and we have also seen the disappearance of a very significant player in the poultry market, when a turkey producer in the same region closed down. These closures have resulted in job losses. We must also be conscious of the fact that we have consumed more food per annum in the past five years than we have produced. The policy thread that links these issues and emphasises that we are playing in a global village is the GM issue. It is tied into the closure of the mill and of the poultry producer. I suspect that the mill was particularly exposed to the pig and especially the poultry sector, given the region in which it was located. The Chairman might know more about that. These are the industries that have borne the brunt of an €80 per tonne increase in animal feedstuffs in the last few months. Significant parts of that increase are due to the change in policy at national level.

The Minister of State may well disagree with that analysis, but he should talk to the representatives of the Irish Grain and Feed Association who made a presentation to this committee not that long ago. Their contention is that prevarication and even hostility towards the GM approval mechanism cost their members and Irish agriculture €160 million last year. That is a huge cost base that we could address. The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food has spoken about the need to synchronise the approval mechanisms, but we prevaricate at a European level and defer decision making all the time from standing committees to the Council of Ministers and back to the Commission. It may be as well that this roundabout manner exists, because if we were dependent on the political system to approve these, then we certainly would not make progress quickly.

If politicians constantly question the veracity of scientific evidence on GM foodstuffs from organisations such as the Food Safety Authority of Ireland, the EFSA or the FDA in the US, does it not call into question the decisions that these bodies make on a wide variety of other issues — approval of medicines, veterinary medicines, human medicines, chemical sprays and so on? Are we just to cherry pick and say that while we wholeheartedly support the Food Safety Authority of Ireland, the European Food Safety Authority and the United States FDA, we do not support them on this one issue? The point is glaring in terms of the Minister of State's colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, and his position on global warming. There is a body of scientific opinion that supports the position taken by the Minister, Deputy Gormley, to which I subscribe. However, there is also a body of scientific opinion that would suggest global warming is a natural phenomenon and will run its course, and that we are overreacting — this is a minority view. We cannot on the one hand encourage people to accept scientific evidence as the basis of policy and then adopt — I do not mean to be offensive — a flat earth approach when it comes to the scientific debate on genetically-modified foods.

The opposite is the case.

It does not appear to be the case.

The Deputy should give me the health tests to which he refers and which he wants to stand by.

I am getting under the Minister of State's skin because my point may not suit. I have sat here for the past hour and a half—

I will listen but I will not let that go unanswered.

The Minister of State will have his opportunity to answer. He should calm down and listen.

Order, please. We have limited time.

Is it sustainable to argue that, on the one hand, we should embrace scientific evidence on global warming and then, on the other, cherry pick and say we will not embrace scientific evidence when it comes to genetically-modified food or feed? If the Minister of State cannot bring himself to have a rational, calm debate, we are in a dangerous situation. We need this from a scientific and economic perspective but, equally, we need it from a moral perspective, although I am reluctant to introduce that terminology into the debate. If one is living in sub-Saharan Africa and could have access to a genetically-modified feed that is drought-resistant and will grow in harsher conditions, who are we in our Western comfort zone to say we are sorry but we will refuse to approve it because it does not suit us? We must take into account that global food consumption is out of kilter with production and the world population is growing annually at a rate of 70 million. These are huge challenges to which we cannot turn a blind eye. If the science on global warming—

The Deputy should give me the science.

The science on global warming—

I am not talking about global warming; I am talking about GM.

That is what we are discussing, not global warming.

If the European Food Safety Authority, the FDA and the FSAI recommend approval of Herculex, why—

They do not do the tests.

If they recommend it, why does the Government take a position that is hostile, to say the least, to the approval mechanism, while the Minister, Deputy Coughlan, speaks out of the corner of her mouth about the need to synchronise the approval mechanisms between the FDA and the European authorities? There is inconsistency in policy. The Minister of State's response is not reassuring in terms of the need for a rational and calm debate.

I pointed to what Dr. Burke of Teagasc had to say on the non-availability within ten years of a non-GM alternative for the feed industry. This advice is available to the Minister of State's Department, as an organ of State, and should be taken into account. I am aware the Minister of State has set his cap against being fully informed on these issues by people who are experts in the area.

What is the Deputy trying to say? What does he mean by suggesting I do not want to hear information?

May I finish? I have listened to the Minister of State all morning and am entitled to make my observations. He made his prepared four-page presentation.

I have listened for longer than the Deputy had to listen to me.

Order, please. The Deputy should continue.

I listened but the Minister of State is not listening.

I am listening all too carefully.

As I said, we live in a global village. We import beef, such as Brazilian beef, from countries where cattle are fed on GM feed. We import poultry from outside the European Union that is fed on GM feed. Why then do we make it so difficult for farmers to access these feedstuffs when they are obliged to compete against produce that has the competitive cost advantage of being fed on these feeds, which are cheaper than the non-GM varieties which the Minister of State has obliged millers to source?

I do not oblige millers to source anything.

Order, please.

The Minister of State has done so and he has said it in—

Farmers want non-GM feed.

Some may, and I am all in favour of those who wish to go the non-GM route. What I said is it is not possible to turn around a multibillion euro industry. If the Minister of State and his Department do not understand this, farmers are in serious difficulty.

I agree with the Deputy.

It is not possible to turn around a multibillion euro industry overnight and move to non-GM varieties which may not be available as an alternative in ten years and are not available currently in sufficient quantities to meet the demand. It is great to have the objective of growing more grain here but we will never be in a position to be self-sustaining in terms of grain production. We must face many uncomfortable realities in this regard.

We must come to this debate with an open mind. From the Minister of State's reaction, it is obvious he does not have an open mind on this debate. It is a change in policy. The Minister of State referred in his speech to ongoing deliberations. He stated: "Ireland's abstention on the recent votes on approving GM feed was the most appropriate position to take given that a process has been established involving relevant Departments". We have reached a decision that we will be a GM-free island but we are still involved in the process. If we had a policy conclusion arising from the process, that would be a fine thing but we are now trying to engineer a conclusion from this consultation process that will fit with the policy decision that has already been taken. That is regrettable and has serious consequences for the industry.

I ask that this issue would be revisited as a matter of urgency. It is imposing considerable additional costs on primary food producers, which will inevitably feed through to consumers. This is something for which the Minister of State and his Department bear substantial responsibility.

There is an ambivalence in the Government's position on this issue. The position the Government has taken at Council of Ministers level is one in which, one senses from the position of abstention, there has been a shift. In spite of the scientific advice and rationale applied by the EU scientific committee, the Government is going against this advice and has adopted a position against the importation of EU scientific committee-approved feedstuffs. If that is the Government's position or if the Government has arrived at a new position, there must be no ambivalence about it. It must be clearly communicated to the agricultural sector because farmers who are feeding livestock will need to know the Government's position on this matter.

I am not a scientist, I am a layman, but my view is that we must rely on science. The EU scientific committee has applied a certain rationale which is based on common sense and practical solutions. If it is advocating a certain position, I do not understand why the Government is not adhering to that advice or why it would abstain on votes when the time comes.

What we are talking about is whether Irish agriculture can sustain its competitiveness and, ultimately, whether Irish consumers will have to pay for the increased costs of feedstuffs that arise from the non-importation of scientifically-approved feedstuffs from the EU. If that is the case, it will have a negative permutation for consumers. If these feedstuffs are not approved, the inevitable outcome is that we will begin importing cheaper produce that is fed on genetically modified organisms. I do not see why we cannot apply a more rational approach.

The Minister of State said in his presentation:

I have consistently said that the commitment in the programme for Government is not about banning imported feed but rather about seeking to negotiate the establishment of an all-Ireland GM-free zone so that we can avoid the release of live GMOs into the Irish environment.

The Minister says he is not against banning imported feed. Will he tell us unequivocally whether he is opposed to the banning of genetically modified feed that is scientifically approved by the EU? We require a clear statement of Government policy. There must be no ambivalence at this stage in the process.

There is no dichotomy or contradiction between maintaining the biodiversity of this island and the importation of EU-approved feedstuffs. The two are not mutually exclusive. It is reasonable to express reservations about scientific trials on the growth of GM feedstuffs pending further debate and dialogue. However, if the EU scientific committee advises and recommends that we import certain feedstuffs, I do not see why the Government cannot approve it. We have all bought into that process by virtue of our membership of the EU.

The precautionary principle is rolled out when it is politically expedient to do so. The Green wedge or wing of the Government has a politically philosophical position on these issues and there is a certain constituency to which it must play. This is to the detriment of Irish agriculture and ultimately the Irish consumer who will end up, if we continue on this route, paying less but without a guarantee that imported livestock or meat products from third countries are GM-free.

We have a decision to make because we must vacate the room at 1.50 p.m. I ask Deputy Ferris to be brief. We must then decide whether to invite the Minister of State to another meeting to continue this discussion.

This debate is essentially about the opposition to commercial cultivation of GM produce on the island of Ireland and the approval or otherwise of the importation of scientifically approved GM feedstuffs. That is the essence of the matter but it is being clouded. It is my understanding that a GM-free zone refers to an area where no GMOs are cultivated. I have been supportive of that from the beginning. My party was the first to take action in this regard when we put forward a motion in the Chairman's county and it snowballed throughout the country from there.

It is extremely troubling that feedstuffs have increased in price by 80% in the past 12 months. That strikes a chord with me. Some 95% of countries are for GM cultivation. One of the most well known producers is Monsanto and its terminal seed. What is at play here is control of international food supplies. That is my position. It is one that used to be shared by the Labour Party and the Green Party when we were in opposition together.

Deputy Sherlock referred to the Minister of State's comment that Government policy is "not about banning imported feed". Does this include feed from GM production? The Minister of State also stated:

In Ireland, we do not have, and we never have had, any commercial cultivation of GM crops. This situation is likely to continue, and that is the feedback I get from talking to farm organisations as well.

There is ambiguity in the use of the word "likely". Will the Minister of State clarify it? The reality is that GM feedstuffs have been imported into Ireland for a considerable time. It is a red herring to say that is not happening. The 80% increase in feedstuff prices poses major questions. The prices of various agricultural products, milk and so forth, all increased substantially this year and now, all of a sudden, the price of feedstuff also increases. It seems there is some piggybacking on the benefit to farming communities arising from the increase in what they receive for their produce.

I call Deputy Christy O'Sullivan in order that there will have been one speaker from each party. I ask him to be brief.

Much of what I wanted to say has been said already. We all aspire to a clean, green environment in which we can produce quality food. However, we must deal with reality. The Minister of State said in his presentation that we must secure sustainable and affordable supplies of feed for Irish farmers. How will that be done at a competitive price? He also referred to the importance of encouraging and facilitating those Irish farmers who are pursuing emerging organic and non-GM markets. We all subscribe to that objective. There is much at stake here and time is of the essence. There are farmers in dire straits who will be out of business long before we can achieve anything that would be of help to them. We must be realistic. Scientific evidence has been presented and must be considered. I must have an answer for the farmers in my constituency who ask whether they will be able to stay in business. It is as simple as that.

Would the Minister of State like to return for another meeting of the committee to finish this debate?

It seems the debate is only starting. I would like the courtesy of some reply to members' points.

Certainly. I will allow the Minister of State five minutes; that is all the time remaining. Other members wished to speak but I was fair in allowing one from each party. We will try to have another debate as soon as possible.

Deputy Creed is correct; the debate must be based on scientific fact and must take into account all the factors. Science is an important aspect of it but, as an exporting nation, we cannot overlook the hostility in the markets the Deputy mentioned.

It is probably resistance rather than hostility.

That is one view. The surveys are well documented. An important market for us is Germany and we are competing with Poland in this regard. It is becoming clear that the Polish see an export opportunity in going the non-GM feed route. I agree that our approach must be based primarily on science.

Moreover, as I mentioned in my presentation, arising from their concern or however one might wish to put it, the French and Italians also decided not to give their full blessing to the authorisation. The point should be put on the record.

Members also have put on the record that the French are self-sufficient and export—

Allow the Minister of State to respond. Deputy Creed was allowed speak for a long time.

One can put many points on the record. I made this point because we sell €602 million worth of food to France. I do not want this to be overlooked.

However, it is not marketed as being GM-free.

The Minister of State should continue.

We do not market it as being GM food either. As Deputy Creed can appreciate, it is tempting to intervene when one is obliged to listen to these points. However, I was obliged to listen to the Deputy, which was also difficult.

I will do my best.

Nevertheless, I take on board the Deputy's comments.

The Food Safety Authority of Ireland has a job to do. It is not made easy by the fact that the Food and Drug Administration in the United States does not carry out the requisite food safety trials but takes on board the industry's assurances. Members can check this matter out as I have done, and members should consider this issue.

People are making comments from the Public Gallery, which is not allowed.

No comments are allowed from the Public Gallery. I heard them.

I would prefer not to have interruptions and I apologise for this.

It is important to consider the extant scientific evidence, as there is a lack of scientific evidence due to the absence of checking or monitoring. Unfortunately, this helps neither my case nor that of Deputy Creed, because this absence creates concern in the minds of those to whom we are trying to sell food. I have visited France, Italy and Germany to speak to those who buy our produce and as matters stand, they both note and identify with the Bord Bia grass-fed production system. Long may that continue to be the case because it is what makes Ireland succeed and we must continue to promote this image in every possible way.

In addition, we should take on board in a serious manner the challenges facing the feed industry. Whatever one may wish to think, this issue will not be dealt with by me stating publically that GM feed should be imported. The FSAI's position at present is that it is not even in a position to consider the aforementioned two new events that are needed in Ireland because of the current shortages in grain feed. It has been obliged to revert to Syngenta in the United States to ask for additional information and awaits a response from that company. Unfortunately, this is outside the political process and will continue to be so until the company, Syngenta, comes back with the information requested by the FSAI.

Members should assess what they can do as politicians. It is not always possible to do everything in politics that one would wish to do. However, in so far as is possible, one should address the other outstanding issues. Deputy Creed only referred to one of the impediments and problems that have caused the increase in price. While the other six are probably more difficult to deal with, it still is important to focus on them. I take the Deputy's point on climate change, which is related to this issue.

We are obliged to finish.

One must deal with the scientific evidence on all fronts. There is no ambivalence in this respect. At present, in respect of cultivation, this is a GM-free island. This is a status that other countries—

The Minister of State should note we are obliged to finish.

Yes. However, there is no ambivalence in this regard. As Minister of State I have responsibility for those who need GM feed, non-GM feed and organic feed, as well as for those who are trying to supply feed in Ireland at present. Essentially, everything that can be done in this regard is being done.

As for Ireland's abstention, its seven votes would not have changed the result in any event and the issue would have to be sent to the Commission. The real issue is whether Ireland wishes to be perceived as a country that promotes the clean green food island image or as a country that basically states it will give the GM industry whatever it wants. At present, we must look to our interests. That is the clear message.

The Minister of State should conclude.

Why did the Government abstain?

Please, Deputy.

The reason we abstained was that, at present, our meat is being bought in Italy and France. In Italy in particular, they insist on non-GM feed. Those countries abstained and a problem would have arisen had we declared support for GM crops, as it would have been perceived in those countries.

(Interruptions).

I am trying to answer another member's question.

The Minister of State should be allowed to finish. This meeting must conclude.

That is the reason. Had we voted in favour, it would have placed us in the bracket of being a pro-GM country that was selling to countries which had specified that our produce should be non-GM.

Is the Minister of State suggesting that we are marketing Irish beef as being GM-free?

Deputy, please.

Yes. I refer the Deputy to Coop Italia. He should speak to Kepak in this regard.

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Sargent, and his officials for the presentation and for answering the questions raised. This discussion has been most informative and of great assistance to members. I hope to return to this issue as soon as possible and the clerk to the joint committee will be in contact with the Minister of State's officials.

The joint committee adjourned at 1.55 p.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Thursday, 21 February 2008.
Top
Share