I would like to begin by apologising to representatives of Fossett's Circus for the long and unexpected delay. We had to address a number of other issues first. I welcome the representatives of Fossett's Circus. It is a pleasure to have you here and your attendance marks a milestone for the committee. It is probably an even higher tightrope than you usually experience.
Fossett’s Circus: Presentation.
It is.
I ask you to introduce yourselves and outline your concerns.
Mr. Edward Fossett
I am the managing director of Fossett's, our international circus. I am joined by my brother, Robert Fossett, and Charles O'Brien. On behalf of the Fossett family, and the entire Irish circus community, we thank the committee for the opportunity to address it today. We hope to point out the particular difficulties we face in bringing our performing art to the Irish public and to highlight the unfairness in the Arts Council's perception of traditional circus as well as its failure to adequately resource our art form. For the first time since 1888, or more than 115 years, Fossett's Circus is facing the prospect of not touring Ireland. I cannot begin to express my family's sorrow and disappointment at having to make this decision.
Mr. Robert Fossett
In preparing today's presentation we took particular notice of the title and scope of this joint committee. Our art form, circus, which has been our family business for the past 115 years, uniquely impacts into and is influenced by decisions concerning all the above mentioned areas. In every year since 1888, without exception, the Fossett family has toured Ireland presenting the best in international circus. While the name has changed and the show has evolved during the past 115 years, our family has continued to bring this venerable form of theatre to socially and geographically marginalised audiences.
There is not a parish, town or city in Ireland in which we have not performed and scarcely a family here has not experienced our particular brand of theatre. Long before the concepts of touring theatre, audience education or marginalised audience development were heard of, my family was bringing theatre and entertainment to audiences who did not know they were marginalised or under-resourced. These audiences looked forward to the annual visit from their national circus. We were, and are, theatre of the people.
During the life of the current Arts Council, the established performing arts community has fared well. Theatre, opera, dance and music have all developed and expanded and there now exists throughout the country a network of performing venues and production companies. Much has been heard recently about the reduction in arts funding and the subsequent effect on these companies. We have read recently of dance and opera companies bemoaning the fact that they have to suffer a 15% to 20% cut in their funding and expressing the fear that they will have to cut back on one or two productions a year. They are so dependent on Arts Council funding they cannot hope to survive within a commercial environment.
While we sympathise with their plight, we ask members to consider the position of circus. Most of the companies facing cutbacks are less than 15 years old whereas Fossett's Circus is 115 years old - 16 years older than the Abbey Theatre. Most of the companies in question do not tour, but service a small local population and the small number which do tour do so for perhaps ten weeks a year. Fossett's Circus tours for more than 35 weeks every year and has done so for the past 115 years. Many of the productions threatened by cutbacks play to small, socially elite audiences. Fossett's Circus plays to more than 80,000 people, most of whom will never attend any other form of theatre, no matter how much the Arts Council might wish otherwise.
State supported children's theatre companies perform almost exclusively to small, urban, culturally aware audiences. Fossett's Circus is very often a child's first and perhaps only experience of live performance. A small number of companies play to audiences on both sides of the Border and are singled out for extra recognition and support when they do so. Fossett's Circus has always presented its shows north and south of the Border to all communities. Apart from two one-off, small capital grants, we have received no State funding to date.
Mr. R. Fossett
We tour for 35 weeks from March to November. Each year we present a completely new production. We visit all parts of the country, hoping to play each county within a five year cycle. We typically present two, two-hour shows a day. We play to more than 80,000 persons drawn from all social backgrounds. We limit our ticket prices to ensure we remain an option for all sections of society. Our touring operation is substantial and expensive. Our 750 seater big top, lighting and sound equipment, generators, trailers, lorries and living accommodation are transported from location to location. Theatres and other venues have joined the lobby attacking the significant increases in public liability insurance. One can imagine what a nightmare these increases pose for us. In addition, we have to contend with the penal rates of road tax and vehicle registration tax.
For the past 25 years Fossett's Circus has not made a profit. Any surplus income is spent on keeping the show on the road and repairing or replacing old equipment. We have no full-time staff, either artistic, administrative or marketing. We cannot effectively market our company or compete with the ever increasing number of foreign circuses touring Ireland. Ironically, some of the same young companies in receipt of Arts Council subsidies are encroaching on our market. They have the luxury of year round continuity and the security that provides. One particular young theatre company based in Dublin has styled its performers as red nosed clowns and sells itself using the clown idea. It is successfully marketing this image to family audiences despite not having a background in circus. We would be the first to welcome this as flattery if it were not for the fact that Ireland's national circus is about to become extinct.
Mr. R. Fossett
Throughout Europe traditional circus is regarded as a venerable performing art form and is treated with the same respect as opera, theatre and dance. It is state supported and cherished as a national institution. The European Commission, through Forum 2000: An Overview of Cultural Co-operation in Europe, defines performing arts as theatre, dance, music, opera, the lyric arts, street theatre and circus. All except circus are resourced and supported here. We ask that the body charged with this task, the Arts Council, redress the inequity now before the only circus performing in Ireland is based in England.
All other performing art forms are resourced, however inadequately. The Arts Council personnel we have met have been nice, polite and, probably, well meaning. They have wrung their hands and cited the budget cutbacks as the reason we have been refused funding. Traditional circus does not conform to the selective view of art, as held by the Arts Council. We are a traditional art form and proud of it.
During our recent meeting with the Arts Council representatives it was suggested that a small, token education and retraining grant offered one of the only avenues of support open to us in the future. It was pointed out to us that the new arts plan would only allow support for contemporary art forms. We were bluntly informed yesterday that no revenue funding would be made available to traditional circus. Our reading of section 2 of the new Arts Bill leads us to believe that all art forms, in particular those named, both traditional and contemporary, were to be cherished and resourced equally. This does not appear to be the view held by the Arts Council. Alone among other traditional arts, we are being excluded from the party.
The people with responsibility for disbursing public money have no knowledge of our art form and no apparent interest in developing such knowledge. As circus will be declared a separate art form entitled to funding and support, our fear is that the Arts Council officers will simply redefine existing organisations and theatre companies as having a circus element. This would allow them to continue to channel public money into contemporary productions with narrow audience appeal, while claiming to be supporting circus. The opportunities open to all Irish circus as a result of its inclusion as a named art are legion. There is a real danger of these opportunities being strangled by an Arts Council out of touch with reality and with what the vast majority of the public want. It is of the opinion that it can dictate what the public is entitled to consider as art. It appears to us, perhaps naively, that it is answerable to no one.
Mr. R. Fossett
Just because four actors on a stage in Temple Bar put on red noses does not mean they comprise a performing circus. If an already well-resourced theatre company in the west trains five of its members to juggle, it is not entitled to claim that it is keeping circus alive. While we support any company or individual wishing to learn new circus skills, we strongly suspect that circus's new found status will encourage claims of dedication to circus purely to access funding. Until traditional circus is placed on a sound footing and the playing field levelled, such cross-disciplinary support cannot be considered. Circus should not be penalised for being a popular, non-elitist performing art form. If it is to be called art under the new Bill, it should be allocated the same level of resources as other named forms. All other forms have a dedicated arts officer. It appears we are to be allocated to the drama officer who is a very nice woman but who has no knowledge of our art and is already under pressure from within her own community.
Traditional circus will not receive its fair share of public funding under the current Arts Council because it simply does not view circus as art. We are of the opinion that the council is of the view that the amendment to the Arts Bill, 2002, was foisted on it and that it has no intention of ever allocating revenue funding to us. In our limited dealings with it, we have found it to be patronising and dismissive. Speaking plainly, it does not want to know us. We have only received token financial support from it on two occasions and have no reason to believe this will change in the future.
Circus is a unique performing art form accessible to all sections of the community on all parts of the island. It is probably the oldest performing arts institution in the country. We are asking for special treatment and believe a special case should be made for Irish circus. It hurts badly when we see young theatre, dance and opera companies accessing six figure funding while we are facing the prospect of not touring the country for the first time in our history. We are disÍappointed by the Arts Council's attitude but not surprised.
Mr. E. Fossett
It is almost 30 years since my father, Mr. Teddy Fossett, first approached the Arts Council for recognition and support. With the passing of the Arts Bill, 2002, circus will finally achieve that recognition. On behalf of the circus in Ireland, I thank the Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue, for making the amendment to include us and for all he has done to help circus survive. However, if the elitist attitude of those who disperse public funds does not change, traditional Irish circus will die.
It is a testament to my father's generation that Fossett's Circus has been kept alive. My brother and I work to continue the tradition. We want to keep bringing our particular performing art to the people. After 115 years Fossett's Circus believes it deserves State support to help it continue and develop. If Ireland does not follow the example of other European countries by adequately supporting the circus, Fossett's Circus will not exist in 12 months' time - it is as simple as that.
I thank Senators and Deputies for giving us the opportunity to make our case before the joint committee. I hope we will be in a position to welcome them and their families to the national circus next year.
Coming from an arts background I understand how difficult it is to keep a show on the road - literally in the case of Fossett's Circus and metaphorically in many others - even when one has funding, never mind when it is being sought. I reiterate the point that we are dealing with a new Arts Bill. It was suggested mid-way through the presentation that the traditional arts were not being taken care of in any sense. Rightly or wrongly, the Minister who was here before Christmas raised the issue of cherishing the traditional arts. He specifically mentioned circus in his contribution in respect of the Arts Bill.
I know the issue raised by the delegates is even more immediate than the Arts Bill in terms of funding. An argument was made that the Arts Council did not have money this year and that that was the reason the circus did not get funding. The council's budget has increased very substantially in recent years. Has it always stated it did not have enough money at its disposal? Has the circus applied before? Is council the only source of potential funding? The delegates spoke about the circus operating on a 32 county basis. What about the peace and reconciliation fund? There is money available under the International Fund for Ireland. Local authorities also have a certain amount of arts funding.
In terms of regional tourism and Bord Fáilte, tourists want something to see and places to spend their time. In Ireland, in many cases, tourists want something to do that is indoors, which Fossett's Circus is providing. Has it approached the issue from the point of view of rural development? Has it made any approaches to the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Ó Cuív, who also comes within the remit of the joint committee and will appear before it in the near future?
I welcome the representatives from Fossett's Circus whose presentation was artistic. I had the pleasure of attending one of its final performances this season and was particularly impressed by the patron friendly atmosphere and professionalism of the staff. My first reaction was that people who did not take time out to appreciate what exactly a circus was and its intrinsic artistic value should attend to see what happens. Many people making decisions are making them at a distance and very much with a blinkered vision of what arts should be.
I thank Fossett's Circus for the folk memory it gave me as a young person. In my youth in the town of Cashel Fossett's Circus, Anew McMaster, Jimmy O'Dea and touring groups of that kind gave us the opportunity to experience art in a living form. We did not live in the cities and were not always wealthy enough to attend artistic performances. I am speaking on behalf of many in the community when I say that we owe Fossett's Circus a debt of national gratitude. It is a national circus. Perhaps the delegates will mention what impact the big foreign circuses have.
The last performance I saw by Fossett's Circus was even more of an art form than I had remembered it to be. It certainly exhibited a theatrical element, music, interaction with the audience and skill. The difficulty is that, because it has been in existence for so long, like traditional art forms, it is taken for granted. Because such art forms are taken for granted they are outside the ring, to use a circus expression. It is not always a matter of there not being enough money. Even if an extra €10 million or €20 million was allocated, Fossett's Circus would not benefit until such time as the mindset changed and people who understood the art form were the ones making decisions.
I hope the decision of Fossett's Circus not to continue is temporary because I would be very disappointed to think there was no solution to this matter. The Chairman raised a very pertinent point in saying the circus representatives should speak to the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, because the community, rural and Gaeltacht aspects of the matter are relevant. The circus might have to ask if the Arts Council or the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism are necessarily the media or vehicles it should be looking to for funding. Knowing the commitment of the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, to all the traditions relating to rural Ireland, I would be very surprised if he was not receptive to the cause of Fossett's Circus. I hope the closure is not definite.
I had intended to ask the circus if it had any indication of how it was to benefit in the future. I am disappointed to hear that the company has been told by the Arts Council that it will not benefit under the arts plan. Given that new legislation is being introduced, surely it should interact with existing plans. I hope the Arts Council is not suggesting that it is not going to recognise what is included in the new legislation. If there were any question of Fossetts Circus disappearing forever it would be a huge loss. Young and old can be comfortable together and enjoy the artistic presentation at the circus which seldom happens in entertainment arenas today.
I welcome the deputation and compliment it on its presentation. I also compliment it on the lobbying it conducted in its successful attempt to have circus included in the definition of the arts. When the last arts Bill was before the Houses in 1973 a former Deputy, Austin Deasy, proposed that circus be included in the definition of the arts. Unfortunately, it was not accepted at that time. Circus forms part of our lasting and fondest memories of childhood. For that reason alone the art form of circus should be supported.
The larger circuses that visit Ireland perform only in large towns; they will not go to places where they will not make a profit. I acknowledge the contribution Fossetts has made to Kerry and the strong affinity it has with that county. It has always been well received in Kerry. In the 114 years of entertainment offered by Fossetts, it was often the only form of entertainment that went to rural parts of the country. The visit of the circus was a topic of conversation for months before and after.
There are several reasons Fossetts Circus must be supported. How much does Fossetts need to keep the show on the road? It obviously needs an immediate injection of funds. The Arts Council has made its allocation for 2003. The Bill has not yet been passed and because circus was not part of the definition of the arts, the council could use that as an excuse not to fund it. Now that circus is part of the definition, circus companies will be in line for future funding and the Arts Council may have to change its five year plan. This will have to be teased out. This committee will take it up with the Arts Council at our next meeting with it. The Minister included circus in the definition to ensure it would be considered for funding by the council. There is a contradiction between the Arts Council's interpretation of the definition and what the legislation intended.
How much subvention does Fossetts Circus need to tide it over until it becomes a qualified applicant for Arts Council funding? If it means saving the company, we could make a strong argument in support of Fossetts Circus to the Minister. The Chairman and Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú made good suggestions about finding other sources of funding. I do not think Fossetts Circus should despair totally. If it dismantles its operation and loses key personnel it will prove very difficult to replace them.
I welcome the representatives of Fossetts Brothers Circus and compliment them on their excellent presentation which pulled no punches. We all have our childhood memories of circuses but in this modern age, children are developing in a way that is indicative of a plastic society. They watch television but it is very important that they see live performances. A circus show can bring excitement and brightness into children's lives.
Compliments have already been paid about taking the show to rural Ireland and how the company soldiered on for 25 years during which there was no profit to be made. What factors have made the business unviable in that period? We know many of them, but we would like to hear them from the representatives. The insurance issue was mentioned. What funding does the company need? I do not want to see help being given on a one-off basis; ensuring the future of the company is the important thing. How much does Fossetts Circus need on an annual basis just to stand still? How much does it need to develop its product? What are the daily revenue expenses? The business operates for 35 weeks annually and brings entertainment to 80,000 people which is impressive in anybody's terms. Can the Minister give some indication of the overall financial situation?
The national lottery was not mentioned but it is another body that could be approached. There are many organisations in rural Ireland that could be approached as well as the Minister for Finance regarding Leader project funding or the Minister for the Environment and Local Government regarding country enterprise boards funding. The bottom line is that we must throw the responsibility back to the wider community because the community at large benefits.
As Deputy Deenihan said, the legislation before the House will not be passed for quite some time and we are talking about getting something from next year's allocation to the Arts Council. However, let us not mislead anyone that the Arts Council operates anything other than at arm's length from Government - it is independent. That is not to say the goodwill of this committee could not influence people in reaching decisions.
I too welcome the delegation and express our appreciation for the forthright way in which it made its presentation. Like my colleagues, I believe the solution may be in a combination of initiatives rather than one single once-off grant which may be unpredictable from one year to another and unsustainable on a long-term basis.
I would like to examine the business plan Fossetts Circus presented to the Arts Council. For instance, I am not sure what its situation is regarding the payment of road tax. Community halls in rural areas were exempted from rates on the basis that they provided a social community service so perhaps it is possible for the Revenue Commissioners and the Department of Finance to allow exemptions to circuses on the basis that they too provide a social service.
I would like to see precisely how the continental circuses are funded although I am sure Fossetts Circus is well aware of it. They get much television and media coverage. Over Christmas, most families in rural areas that have satellite television watched the continental circuses performances. I am sure they have some arrangements with the television stations but I do not know if Fossetts Circus looked at that angle. As Deputy O'Shea said, funding is available through national lottery direct application and I am aware that organisations like the Army bands and equitation school have been directly funded - I am not sure about this year but they have received substantial funding even though they come within the remit of the Department of Defence.
I do not think the solution to Fossett's problem is the Arts Council, although I am disappointed at the attitude it seems to have adopted and we will seek explanation regarding the negative approach it seems to have about the circus art form. I am not an expert in this area - apart from clowns perhaps - but if Fossett's have a detailed business plan and a financial case set out, it would be useful to keep it confidentially within the members of the committee. I would like to see some indication of the number of people employed, the number of professions involved and their availability to be retrained. There are retraining schemes available which may help.
The point we should emphasise is that there is no blanket solution to the problem but rather a combination of initiatives which, added together, can put Fossett's on a sound financial footing in the short-term and, more importantly, the long-term.
I ask the Fossett's delegation to respond to what they have heard. They will appreciate that they have a favourable audience here.
It is 99% certain that we will have to close if some financial package cannot be put together before our season begins in mid-March. The factors relating to that have built up over a number of years - it is not like we woke up this year to find ourselves with an enormous deficit. There has been a running deficit which the family has been funding out of savings for 25 years because of its commitment to circus - after all, the name over the door is Fossett's. Insurance is another factor to which everyone can relate.
I joined Fossett's three years ago and, like most people, was under the impression that there is a permanent staff who work all year round and that, when they are not out on the road, they are pre-selling and pre-marketing the show before they go out on the road in the same way any other business will operate. Fossett's has been unable to do that. When Fossett's closes in November, it closes completely. The three people before you today draw the dole from that point and that is a fact of life. We attempt to see what defines a national circus and pre-market it - between picking up other jobs - but the lack of continuity and pre-marketing over the past three years means audiences have dwindled. When a foreign show comes in it is not just the cultural impact - it wipes out the market for circus in that area for six to nine months and it can market from a hub in Manchester, Birmingham or London which we cannot. Vehicle road tax on showman or circus wagons or vehicles in Britain and Europe is a token €115 or so. In Ireland that does not exist although it did until a number of years ago when, for reasons unknown, it was abolished. Robert Fossett has a clearer view on the impact of foreign shows.
Mr. R. Fossett
One of the effects of foreign circuses is that they have the ability to seduce the media while the name "Fossett's" is not news - we are taken for granted - so it is difficult to get coverage whereas, a foreign circus can woo certain journalists. For example, a recent Sunday publication advertised a current visit of a circus. A journalist from the publication was taken abroad to see the show, came back and wrote what can only be described as a quarter page ad for it. The same journalist has been invited twice to review our circus and we have yet to receive a phone call from the individual. While the foreign shows may not necessarily have something fantastic to sell, they are portrayed as something not to miss - an event - whereas when we come along it is difficult to get the same level of coverage, if any.
Most of the people we deal with, including the Arts Council, do not know what we sell artistically. They do not know what Fossett's is about now. With respect, most people's idea of Fossett's is a childhood memory and they do not necessarily appreciate the development that has gone on within the performance aspect of Fossett's. We are talking about children's expectations and, in our opinion, we have moved with the times and put on a young show. We seem to be able to marry the traditional circus with something ultra-modern. In the course of our performance, there are drastic changes from something typically traditional to something typically modern. We have a sophisticated sound and light rig and we try to cater for all members of the family. That is a point we cannot seem to get across to the public and part of the reason for that is that the name "Fossett" is taken for granted and it is very difficult to market what we do now.
To go back to the Arts Council, we were led to believe by the Minister, and we thank him for taking the step to change the Bill, that the reason for the change is that it would accommodate future funding, etc. As of yesterday we were informed by a representative of the Arts Council that because our circus is seen as traditionalist and not contemporary, there is no guarantee that we will be funded.
In terms of the capital required, the immediate requirement to enable the show to go on in March is €80,000. In terms of ongoing costs, how long is a piece of string? As a company we do not want to be in a position where we depend on subsidy. We believe that we can produce a circus that ultimately will not need to be subsidised but the playing field has to be levelled. I cannot give the committee a figure that Fossetts Circus would need on an annual basis to continue. On paper, Fossett's is a viable entity. It has amassed a series of debts over the past number of years because of the factors I mentioned, the primary one being an inability to market effectively.
Somebody asked how circuses in Europe are funded. The good circuses still adhere to cultural values. A circus which puts on a very commercial, artistically poor show will not need subsidy but a circus which Ireland can be proud of and which can stand up with the national circuses of Germany, France, Switzerland and Italy needs ongoing marketing and Government support. On the Continent a circus attracts much higher audiences because people perceive their national circus as just that - their national circus. That attitude has to come from the top down and a circus like Fossetts Circus should be able to programme and plan two and three years in advance. We cannot plan two months in advance. The immediate figure required is €80,000 but that does not mean that figure will be needed next year.
In terms of our own business plan, if we can achieve the same figures Fossetts Circus was achieving 15 or 20 years ago, which are achievable, we are talking about €10,000, €15,000 or €20,000 per annum. The subsidy would cover that but the playing field has to be levelled. In regard to Fossetts Circus, quite a large amount of that €80,000 has to be found to get us out on the road this year.
How many foreign circuses operate in Ireland over the year?
Two or three.
Is Fossetts Circus the only Irish circus? Is Duffy's Circus gone out of business?
Mr. R. Fossett
No, Duffys Circus is still touring.
So they are the only two Irish circuses?
Yes.
I will be very brief. I want to join with my colleagues in deploring the attitude of the Arts Council. While it may be acting within the letter of the law in terms of current legislation, it is acting in direct conflict with the spirit of the new Arts Bill.
I am a sceptic as far as circus is concerned. I do not have a difficulty in saying that. It is not a coincidence that I am the only one here from within the Pale but like everybody else I have very pleasant memories of the circus. I suggest to the representatives that their business plan is vital and it is not just what happens within the ring. The three months they spoke about a few minutes ago are crucial to its viability as a business. It is vital that they present a comprehensive business plan and not just look for enough to keep them struggling on from week to week. They are in a year round business and the business plan should be presented on that basis.
Incidentally, if the representatives are looking for an additional revenue stream, their presentation skills could be franchised, although there might be a bigger market for the reference to their competitor circus's ability to seduce the media.
I ask you to answer the specific question about the number of circuses because I think we have a fair grasp of the position from the exchanges.
Currently there is one but in any given year up to two or three will come here, primarily from Britain. Every four or five years a circus comes from Italy or further. Ireland is now seen as a good business trawling ground by British commercial circuses.
Having listened to your presentation and the amount of money involved, which is not significant in terms of larger events, this committee sincerely hopes that funding in the range of €80,000 will not be the difference between the company stopping or starting. We hope some of our comments will give you food for thought in terms of other possibilities because if you cannot get Arts Council funding you will have to get it elsewhere. We believe there are other opportunities and whether funding comes in one or a number of tranches, it is possible that it will be forthcoming. There needs to be a long-term strategy and regardless of whether funding is forthcoming from the Arts Council, under the spirit of the Arts Bill, as Deputy Glennon said, you will be eligible for funding, perhaps not now but in the future, and that should be the message you are getting.
I hope you found this a worthwhile exercise. It was worthwhile from the committee's point of view. We hope to see Fossett's Circus performing throughout our parishes for many years to come. If there is no other business I will adjourn the meeting until 5 February 2003.
The joint committee adjourned at 5 p.m. until 5 February 2003.