JOINT COMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS, ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES debate -
Wednesday, 4 Mar 2009

Oil and Gas Exploration: Discussion with Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

Chairman

I welcome Mr. Ciarán Ó hÓbáin, principal officer, Mr. Noel Murphy, petroleum exploration specialist, Mr. Michael Daly, electricity and gas regulation division, Mr. Koen Verbruggen, principal geologist, and Mr. Peter Croker, petroleum exploration expert, from the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. The joint committee has invited the witnesses to discuss oil and gas exploration.

I draw attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege, this privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Under the salient rules of the Chair, members are also reminded of the practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I call on Mr. Ó hÓbáin to make his presentation.

Mr. Ciarán Ó hÓbáin

We have a relatively short presentation to make covering core objectives of the Department in this area. We will give a high-level overview of exploration and production activity and touch on the promotion of exploration, which aims at attracting inward investment to Ireland. The first slide shows that a pipeline extends our gas supplies further and further eastwards. It also indicates that exploration is mostly happening on the west coast; the deeper the shade of blue shown, the deeper the water and this means a greater challenge.

The core objective for the Department is to maximise benefits to the State from exploration and production, with due regard to the environment and safety issues. The main goals are to strengthen the security of Ireland's energy supply and to generate revenue.

The next slide indicates where we stand in terms of security of supply. Kinsale gas provided for most of Ireland's gas needs but we can see from the presentation that production from that area is nearing its end; the red line shows that Ireland's demand for gas is increasing dramatically. The slide also shows how much of this demand will be met when Corrib gas comes on stream. It is clear that there will still be a gap between production and demand in Ireland even then. The gap will remain significant even after some years of peak production so Ireland needs to bring additional fields on stream.

In 2007 the licensing terms were revised. The slide shows what stayed the same and what changed. However, there was no change in the overall principle that the State did not partake in investment or production. It allows the industry to invest and write off exploration costs against future developments. A number of measures were taken to ensure more timely and effective exploration, one of which was to reduce the terms for licences. The basic corporation tax rate was kept at 25% but a new resource rent tax was introduced, which meant a rate of 40% could be applied to the more profitable fields.

Mr. Murphy will talk about exploration and production activity and promotion.

Mr. Noel Murphy

Among the key issues facing the exploration sector are the industry's perceptions of our prospectivity, the availability of acreage for licensing and the supporting technical data. Current oil prices, financial markets and rig and vessel availability are becoming critical. Competitive terms, ease of doing business and proximity to markets are also factors.

Members will see the sedimentary basins offshore and that the big exploration potential is mainly in the west. The major basins are the Porcupine and Rockall basins which are deep water areas of between 2,000 km and 3,000 km. The slide shows the current level of activity of the industry and the licences, options and leases in place. The leases are for gasfields which have been declared commercial. To the south there is a regular, almost square, area covering Kinsale and Ballycotton and a small tail to the left which marks the area of Seven Heads. All of Ireland's gas production is from these areas and does not amount to much. It is approximately the amount one reasonable well could produce; therefore, each is producing substantially below what a normal field would be expected to deliver. Off the coast of County Mayo the Corrib field is under development, represented by a small red mark in the Slyne Basin which members will only barely be able to see.

Exploration licences are shown in blue. Members will again see that the industry's efforts are concentrated in the west, with an almost unbroken chain from the Donegal Basin in the north to the Goban Spur to the south of the Porcupine Basin.

Chairman

Can Mr. Murphy give further information on gas licences?

Mr. Noel Murphy

A gas production lease applies to a field which has been declared commercial. Exploration licences are for oil or gas exploration, as at the outset one does not always know what one will find. The slide shows only exploration wells, of which there are 127 with 52 located off the west coast. They are sparsely located to the north of Rockall and in the south around the Porcupine Basin. The deep water frontier acreage we are trying to promote is not well blessed. We expect to get two exploration wells this summer, one is in the very northernmost part of the Rockall Basin, up towards the north of the map shown on the screen. It will be on a feature called Fiachra. The other is in the Slyne Basin, which is off Mayo, and it is on a feature called Bandon.

The well results are key to understanding the geology and prospectivity of any basin but, in particular, away from wells one needs seismic data and other types of geophysical data. However, seismic data is the bread and butter for the sector. Coverage begins to deteriorate dramatically as one goes into the Rockall Basin and towards the south west of the Porcupine Basin. At this scale even the red areas shown on the map look to be pretty good but I can assure the committee that if one blows up the map to a real scale one will see lots of holes and gaps and some of the data is quite old. Getting geophysical contractors to shoot seismic data is a key element of preparing the way for exploration. After approximately 40 years it all comes to those results. In the presentation the yellow boxes surrounded by a strong or heavy red line on the map are the commercial fields. Everything else is a discovery and they tend to be a lot smaller. When we are talking about proven resources we are dealing with the Kinsale Head area and Corrib field to the west.

I will move on to promotion of exploration.

Senator Joe O’Toole

I am sorry to interrupt. How far does our jurisdiction extend off the coast? Is it 200 miles?

Mr. Noel Murphy

We have designated an area that is in excess of 500 miles at its maximum.

Senator Joe O’Toole

That is okay.

Mr. Noel Murphy

All of the activity the Senator is seeing is within a 200-mile limit, by and large, although we are doing some research further out.

Senator Joe O’Toole

I thank Mr. Murphy.

Mr. Noel Murphy

The focus of promoting exploration is to improve the knowledge of petroleum resource potential. I referred to perception on the part of the industry. It is extremely important to be able to demonstrate that there is a resource or a prize out there worth seeking.

The next aspect is to hold regular licensing rounds and to maintain competitive terms. There is no point in having potential if it is not available to explore. Then we have generation and dissemination of high-quality technical data and information. The data are by and large digital and that is essential to anybody looking at the area.

The final point relates to the first point. It is important that we involve the industry and research community in petroleum systems' research and development. Naturally enough, the resources available to the Department will be limited so it is important to get experts from a wider international community to help us with mapping resources.

Geology underlies prospectivity and our understanding of resource potential and how much oil or gas may be out there. I stress the phrase "may be", because we can come up with good figures but unless somebody drills and finds the resource it is all potential that may or may not exist. We need to look at our basins on a regional basis and consider the key factors that are necessary to have in place if those areas are to be prospective. One needs to have source rocks, reservoirs and traps. The "blue map" as I call it, shows a reconstruction which has closed the Atlantic. That was the way it looked approximately 60 million years ago. Basins off Newfoundland, some of them highly prolific, connect to basins off the west of Ireland. This is the type of template we are examining in terms of bringing information from other countries and regions to help us work out what we have in Ireland where we have a dearth of data. Involved in this we have a petroleum infrastructure programme which includes ten or 11 key players in the industry here and they pay approximately €1.25 million per annum in this research.

Senator Joe O’Toole

What does "platform/high" on the slide mean?

Mr. Noel Murphy

Generally, it means an area bounding a sedimentary basin. It is high relative to the basin. It is like having two shelves with a basin in the middle full of younger rock. Generally, a "platform/high" is not prospective. One must go to the blue areas on the slide.

We must provide acreage and we have a round system off the west coast and an open door system off the south coast where the industry can come at any stage and apply for acreage. In the area to the west we are preparing for the closure of the Rockall licensing round this year. The closing date for applications is 22 April. We are hopeful that we will receive some applications and I reasonably expect that we will have.

Deputy Liz McManus

I am sorry to interrupt but does Mr. Murphy mean that at present the Department does not have any applications?

Mr. Noel Murphy

We will not have them until 22 April.

Deputy Liz McManus

Do they all come in at the same time?

Mr. Noel Murphy

They all come in right on the deadline and it is impossible to know what one will get until the packages are received on the day.

Deputy Liz McManus

I presume the Department has indications.

Mr. Noel Murphy

Yes, we have a reasonable idea, excluding any dark horse that can arise at the very end, of the companies which are interested and are examining the area. Not all of these companies will make an application. This week alone, one of the companies which had bought much data and was actively examining the Rockall licence stated that we had helped it but it cannot see big enough structures there. It had a problem in the area which it was considering and this is what happens. The companies may not tell us and we must leave it to the very end to know what we have.

Deputy Liz McManus

So at this stage Mr. Murphy cannot even give an estimate.

Mr. Noel Murphy

Examining the rounds we had over the past four or five years, typically we receive three or four applications. This would be a reasonable outcome given the current market climate and the degree of difficulty and risk attached to a deep water area such as this. I cannot guarantee we will receive this number of applications but it would be an acceptable outcome, particularly if we recall that the UK extension of the Rockall licence received no applications across the Border in its 25th licensing round held last year. We will receive applications. What we need are a few good companies spread out with decent work programmes which will develop the exploration potential and if anything good happens, they will be a magnet to draw in others.

With regard to the trends, we began an aggressive concerted campaign to promote acreage in late 2003 and 2004. The numbers depend to an extent on the licences coming at the right time but we have built up the number of licences to 27 which is approaching an all-time high. We must continue to promote the area to maintain this momentum. We have the industry's attention on the west. However, if we or the companies were to sit back we could enter a period of decline and from the slide one can see the prominent cycles we had in the past.

The next slide is very interesting also. The companies with licences are represented by the blue bars above the zero line and the companies which have departed are below it. I argue that the effect of departmental promotion has kicked in and is keeping the net number of exploration companies considerably above zero. It has required hard work. What it does not show, however, is the size of the companies involved in exploration in Irish waters. Major companies such as Exxon Mobil Corporation, PETRONAS, WRE and AMERADA Hess Corporation are all represented by the blue bars. The companies which have left Ireland are small to tiny companies which are feeling the credit crunch. They became a partner in a project that looked commercial, but with the drop in oil prices and the tightening of credit cannot survive in this arena.

The black columns on the next slide show the numbers of exploration wells, a real barometer for how well we are doing, at least in the short term. While the number of exploration wells has picked up, it is not significant. The constraint in the equation is rig availability. As we have pointed out, most of the focus of exploration has tended to be off the west coast where there is a considerable number of drillable prospects. Rigs for deep water exploration are extremely scarce and tend to be tied up in long-term contracts. With the fall in oil prices and the economic difficulties in the industry at large, one would expect more rigs to be available at a cheaper day rate. However, we are not yet seeing a decrease in rates for rigs with the capability to drill in ultra-deep water. The rigs which can drill in the Celtic Sea are being freed, but it is still a problem to secure rigs for deep water drilling.

I thank members for their attention.

Mr. Ciarán Ó hÓbáin

The promotion is aimed at attracting inward investment and new companies to make the commercial find needed to advance matters. The core activity for the Department is to manage existing authorisations which takes a good deal of time. We have hands-on engagement with licensees which are required to report to the Department on a regular basis. That engagement becomes more active and frequent at critical times, for example, when there is drilling. The Department would have full access to the information the companies possess at such times, even when it is commercially sensitive. Therefore, it has been assisted in deepening its own knowledge. In so doing it is essentially operating as a regulator. The table shows the revenue generated from application fees and rental income which meets and exceeds the cost of regulating the industry.

The level of exploration in Ireland is relatively modest when compared with levels in the United Kingdom and Norway which are significant provinces. While modest, the level is increasing, however. In addition, the nature of the companies involved in exploration is positive, with the big players coming into the market.

In response to Deputy McManus's question, if one were to assess the Rockall round in a couple of months' time, the number of quality applications and what they propose would be key. Who is applying is also key. Will they be companies with the ability in making their applications to convince that they will have the technical resources to promote a good quality work programme and the financial resources to make sure it will happen? That will be a key point when making the assessment.

The focus is primarily on the Atlantic. It is under-explored but also requires a high level of investment. The level of drilling activity shown on the slide looks low. However, if one were to show a graph of the cost of drilling, one would see a significant take-off in the past couple of years because the cost of drilling in the Atlantic, depending on the well, is in the region of $70 million to $150 million, whereas a well in the Celtic Sea might cost in the region of $15 million to $30 million.

The key challenge for Ireland in attracting investment is to keep the level of exploration at least where it is until the industry sees more positive signals from Ireland. The positive signals international investors need include the Corrib field coming on stream, that if we find something, we can bring it through to development, and another commercial discovery being made. It is nearly a decade and a half since the last significant commercial discovery was declared.

The final point is that the licensing terms reflect the current environment in which we operate.

Chairman

How long does a licence last and why did the Department go for licensing rounds off the west coast while considering an open door policy for the south?

Mr. Ciarán Ó hÓbáin

First, the length of licence depends on conditions. In open areas which are shallow waters where exploration should be more straightforward the period of a licence is six years. In the frontier areas the period was reduced to a minimum of 12 years, but the licences in place are generally in the range of 14 to 16 years.

Deputy Liz McManus

I thank the officials for their presentation. We are all conscious of the importance of energy security and the need to develop indigenous sources, particularly in the context of the approach taken by Russia a few months ago. It certainly alarmed countries across Europe and, while we were not directly affected, it is an issue that brings home to us the need to develop our own indigenous resources. I wonder whether we are doing enough. The pattern Mr. Ó hÓbáin described is of a certain level of activity which is relatively modest. I accept his point that there is a certain change in terms of the companies being attracted. It does not seem, however, that the level of activity has improved. At a time when there is so much concentration on energy security that concerns me somewhat. I am aware that there is no direct State participation but I wonder, comparatively speaking, how we rate in terms of enabling further exploration. There was a reference to seismic data and research. I presume the State can play a role in that regard. If resources are limited, is it possible to do more of this? The role of the State is also to tax and, while the tax regime was changed, is it the case that the new regime does not yet apply to commercial activity?

I read a resumé of the energy security report the Minister launched. In it he referred to issues such as oil stocks and a new oil facility. I am aware it is not directly related to what we are discussing, but perhaps Mr. Ó hÓbáin could outline where we are in terms of actions on these recommendations.

I refer to rig availability. Oil prices are what they are and I cannot ask questions about them, because it is outside our control. However, I would have thought the larger companies would have capacity in terms of rig availability, but I do not know if that is the case. Is there a leasing arrangement, or are the rigs owned by the larger companies? It seems odd that the market cannot provide for a particular need. What is the view of the delegation?

Concern was expressed regarding the cost of the Corrib gas field since it came on stream. We all appreciate it is on the international market and that the cost could rise because of the impact on the use of the pipeline. Will the delegation comment on this matter? I realise the matter was raised by Deputy Coveney who, unfortunately, is not here today.

I am lost regarding Rockall. It was a subject of some dispute and an international negotiation was set up. Is that completed or what is the story?

Deputy Joe McHugh

I welcome the delegation. It is always good to be kept informed on these matters, because it is a complex area. From the perspective of the public, the proper information is not available in terms of the invaluable nature of the potential in this case. At some stage corporation tax will increase from 25% to 40%, but what level of a gas find would be necessary before the tax of 40% is applied? Perhaps that is too much of a hypothetical question.

Given that there is so much money and investment in the initial stage of exploration, the public perception is that the Government is not in a financial position to carry out the work, which is the reason it takes place in the private sector. That is still the critical message which must reach the public domain, because the person on the street, and I include politicians among that group, does not have the level of knowledge and expertise of the delegation. No government could sustain the amount of money invested in such work or in the necessary technology, or match the level of private sector involvement.

At a more parochial level let us consider a hypothetical case. If there were success in Rockall, would the delegation consider Corrib as a link or would it perhaps consider Killybegs or Greencastle in terms of bringing the gas on shore? I realise it is a hypothetical question. If it is the case that gas is found would these destinations be considered? The reason I put the question is that there is still a potential of linking Corrib to Northern Ireland at Derry. I realise my comments are completely parochial in terms of bringing gas to Donegal. Is everything based on that hypothesis? If gas is found would the delegation consider linking it directly to Donegal or would it go via Corrib and ultimately link up to the Derry gas line?

Mr. Noel Murphy

I will try to answer Deputy McManus's questions. I refer to the question on the promotion level. What we have achieved is perhaps somewhat more dramatic than I have indicated, because in 2003 levels had practically fallen to zero. We have since built up a reasonable level on the back of active promotion. We could examine other areas and frequently we do so.

Let us consider the areas off the coast of eastern Canada where, for example, Nova Scotia has been trying very hard, without success, to turn the exploration switch on. The industry will always look to those regions with proven resources such as several big producing fields, pipeline infrastructure and a proven and tested market from the well to the customer. When the industry looks at Ireland, it sees several unknowns. If we are truthful, the amount of expenditure offshore Ireland has been significant but a very small number of companies have actually benefited from it. The Kinsale Head field is the only one, in 30 or 40 years, in production.

The industry is well aware of these things and looks to Ireland to see if there is any news. We have had no great positive headline news on last year's wells. This is something that has turned on us. The dry holes keep racking up. We have to argue strongly that the statistics are not so simple, that one must look at Ireland region by region and that each area has its merits. There is an underlying lack of data in some areas which is influencing outcomes. Companies have a herd mentality and when they see an area as ripe, they tend to move into it. We have had much bad news from Ireland which we find difficult to overcome. Dare I mention the Corrib field? The fact that it was discovered in 1996 and has still to be developed is something of which the industry is acutely aware. We have many direct engagements with companies and this issue comes up at those meetings. There is the perennial question, "If we were to find something, could we get it ashore?"

Deputy Liz McManus

Is Mr. Murphy saying more data could be gathered which would be helpful?

Mr. Noel Murphy

Certainly. The main staple is seismic data. In our promotion we try to get large seismic contractors, not the oil industry per se, to acquire data sets off Ireland. Seismic contractors will try to get enough oil company clients to defray their costs and give them a profit. Last year was not a great one for us. We have built up seismic data acquisition in the last few years but it dropped off in 2008. The reason we are given is that the industry in Ireland does not have a sufficiently large core of companies, fields or perception of prospectivity. This limits companies’ willingness to fork out large amounts of money and seismic data acquisition is hugely expensive. There are opportunities to use older data for research and that is something we do. We apply smaller regional data sets acquired recently and also look at UK and transatlantic comparisons. We are using all the available data but it is important to have large new data sets. However, geophysical contractors are finding it difficult to make business in Ireland.

Deputy Liz McManus

Should there not be State or EU participation in this work to develop energy security for the European Union? Would it be too costly?

Mr. Noel Murphy

The work is certainly costly. I cannot say it would be impossible but it is a route we have never taken. I am not aware of other countries going that route.

Deputy McManus referred to rig availability. Approximately ten or 12 rigs in the world have deep water capability, including some which have come from yards in South-East Asia in the last two years. They are owned by drilling contractors, not by oil companies. Two or three companies might take a lease of up to five years on a rig; therefore, it is, effectively, tied up for that period. They are tied up for $500,000 to $600,000 a day; to drill a well half of these figures should be added to cover the cost of services. There is a rig cost but there is also a question of availability, as most deep water rigs are tied to long-term contracts. Areas off west Africa and Brazil are availing of all the available rig capacity.

Mr. Ciarán Ó hÓbáin

Turning to the question on the tax regime, there are 26 offshore licences, 16 of which predate the new regime. This means the new regime applies to ten licences. There are four licensing options that relate to low level work programmes and guarantee holders first right of refusal on a licence in an area. If they mature to be exploration licences, they will be subject to the new terms. Of the 16 licences in place, five date from the 1990s and are close to expiry or the holder is close to making a discovery. The balance is shifting quickly towards the new regime.

Deputy McHugh asked about the size of field one would have to discover to pay at the higher rate. It is a difficult question to answer because many factors are taken into account in making such an assessment. It depends on where the field is located, the depth of water, exploration costs, development costs, the development model chosen, expenditure on exploration elsewhere, gas prices and so on. In short, we would not expect the new terms to apply to fields in the Celtic Sea; they are more likely to apply to major finds in the Atlantic Ocean.

Regarding where a new resource would be brought ashore, it depends on the nature of the find; it may not be brought ashore. Oil could be tankered, as could condensate gas; it would be up to the company which made the discovery to bring forward a development option and engage with the Department. They would look at a range of factors, including what would make the best sense commercially. They would also have to factor in meeting the demands of an environmental assessment and find a safe way to deliver the goods. Just because there is a development off the west coast does not mean all further fields in the area would have to tie into it. I hope there will be new finds in the area and, if so, licensees will decide how the product should be brought ashore.

On rig availability, in a tight market a major company will have a better chance than a small company of acquiring a rig within a short amount of time. This is a positive factor if licensees are mostly from a major company; if the rig market is tight, they will wait a shorter amount of time than a small company.

On oil stocks, unfortunately, nobody here can answer the question but the Department will come back with an answer.

Deputy Liz McManus

Okay.

Mr. Ciarán Ó hÓbáin

I will ask Mr. Daly to answer the question on the impact on gas prices. Mr. Croker will answer the question on Rockall.

Mr. Michael Daly

There will not be an issue until the Corrib field is actually producing gas. The liquefied natural gas, LNG, plant at Shannon could also have an impact on transmission. The model for transmission costs is simple; there is a regulatory asset base that includes the investment costs of interconnector 1 and interconnector 2. A weighted average cost of capital is permitted in this regard. That is carried out by the Commission for Energy Regulation, CER, rather than by us but the weighted average cost of capital for gas projects is 5.2% plus depreciation and operating costs. Once gas supplies from the Corrib field come on stream, they will divert much of the flow expected to come through the pipelines. At the existing transmission per unit bases there will be a considerable shortfall and there will have to be a rebalancing. Transmission costs are a mix between those associated with gas supplies coming from Moffat across the Irish Sea and onshore costs. The cost of gas from the Kinsale field is slightly different because there are entry costs at Inch.

The commission produced a consultation paper last year on the common arrangements for the whole island and is not prepared to allow the interconnected assets to be stranded. However, the Corrib field is projected to be a very big producer in the first three to four years, following which there will be a step downwards. The model can deal with this and I do not accept that the overall price of gas will change, even though transmission costs may increase.

Deputy Liz McManus

That was a yes and no answer.

Mr. Michael Daly

It must be so until we do the figures because the cost of the Corrib pipeline, being constructed from County Mayo to County Galway, comes into the onshore costs, while the unit costs could decline. Security of supply will be very important.

Mr. Peter Croker

I would like to address the question about Rockall, put by Deputy McManus. Ireland concluded a continental shelf delimitation agreement with the United Kingdom in 1988 which drew the boundary between Ireland and the United Kingdom at where we expected the ultimate limit of the continental shelf to lie. Rockall was north of that line and not used as a calculating point in the negotiations. It has since become a non-issue as it is a rock and not an island under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, meaning it does not have a continental shelf or an exclusive economic zone of its own. Ireland's official position is that the question of sovereignty over the rock of Rockall is still open.

Chairman

What is the definition of a rock and an island?

Mr. Peter Croker

The definition is included in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. An island is a place that can support human habitation. It is a question of judgment but Rockall is extremely small and has space for no more than four people on top; therefore, it cannot support human habitation in the general sense.

My colleague, Mr. Ó hÓbáin, has asked me to comment on the cost of a seismic survey because we have heard the figures for drilling. Depending on the type, a seismic survey would typically cost between $5 million and $20 million, approximately one quarter of the cost of drilling a well.

Chairman

I have one final question. Does the Department charge a fee for a licence? If so, how much does it cost?

Mr. Ciarán Ó hÓbáin

Yes. I would have to check our handbook to find out for certain but I think it is in the region of €6,000 or €8,000 for the frontier licence. I will come back to the committee with the actual range of charges.

Chairman

That is fine.

Deputy Joe McHugh

Mr. Ó hÓbáin mentioned that we have to be seen more positively internationally. In considering the rates of 25% and 40%, I assumed that at a certain level of oil or gas exploration that rate would increase to 40%. Would it not be in the group's interest to qualify that increase from 25% to 40%? For example, it could be decided if oil or gas is found in the Celtic Sea, that because of the depth of the sea or the distance involved, the rate would not increase to 40%. I am not being facetious. I am trying to be helpful in terms of the public perception. Sometimes when people see figures they look at them in black and white.

Mr. Ciarán Ó hÓbáin

I was trying to make clear that it is not a very scientific exercise. To assist in our promotion campaign we have produced a single model, which is taking a range of the assumptions to which I referred. It shows where across the life of a field it could hit into different categories. I would be happy to send a copy of that to the clerk to the committee. For example, it is 25% plus 5% or 25% plus 10%. We have done that, because while the industry would be well capable of doing its own modelling, it would be anxious to have some understanding of how Ireland would see the new regime working.

I would quickly follow that by saying that at the end of the day the Revenue Commissioners will determine how it works and whether a company would fall into the category of paying above the 25%. We have one model which has taken a range of assumptions, including a price, which is very volatile. I would be happy to forward that to the clerk to the committee.

Deputy Joe McHugh

Perhaps Mr. Ó hÓbáin is already doing this but would it be a useful exercise to meet local authorities in Donegal and Sligo in advance, in the same way as he is appearing before the committee, in order to inform local authority members at ground level of the Department's intentions. It is only a few miles from their electoral representative areas and questions are frequently asked of them in their constituency offices. That is just a suggestion. Perhaps Mr. Ó hÓbáin is already doing that or has plans to do it.

Mr. Ciarán Ó hÓbáin

We will certainly take the suggestion back.

Chairman

I thank Mr. Ó hÓbáin and his colleagues for attending, especially following our recent presentation by the offshore operators. What has been said today ties in very much with their views. I thank the witnesses for their presentation.

The joint committee adjourned at 11 a.m. until 9.45 a.m. on Wednesday, 11 March 2009.