I welcome Mr. Seamus O'Brien, mayor of Clonakilty, and Ms Phil O'Regan, deputy mayor, representing the Clonakilty Post Office Action Committee. We will hear a presentation from the delegation and follow this with a question and answer session. I draw the attention of the witnesses to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege but this does not apply to witnesses appearing before it. While it is generally accepted that witnesses have qualified privilege, the committee cannot guarantee any level of privilege to witnesses appearing before it. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House, or an official, by name in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.
Clonakilty Post Office: Presentations.
Mr. Seamus O’Brien
We are delighted to be here this morning to present our case on the issue of rural post offices in the context of An Post's survival plan and we will use Clonakilty as an example throughout.
In common with some other Irish towns, Clonakilty has benefited from the recent economic boom. The most recent census shows that the population of the town grew by 27% over the previous five years; Clonakilty was Cork's fastest growing town during the period. Clonakilty has a vibrant community with a strong sense of community pride and spirit. It has worked hard to bring itself from the dark 1980s to the current successful era. This has been done through the hard work of the community in partnership with Clonakilty town council.
As members may be aware, Clonakilty received national recognition by winning the overall Tidy Towns award in 1999, a gold medal in the European Entente Florale competition in 2000 and a gold medal in the Nations in Bloom competition in China in 2001. This is proof positive that Clonakilty is a town of achievers. We have worked hard together to improve our lot and maximise our potential. We generally make our own decisions which impact on our future. Structurally, our town is well-positioned to capitalise on our phenomenal growth. We have an adequate supply of building land, good quality services and excellent tools of communication. Eircom recently provided a broadband service in the town and our technology park has the Esat broadband service, where we expect to have an extra 230 jobs this year which is phenomenal growth. Some 150 of these jobs should be provided by Bord Iascaigh Mhara under the Government's decentralisation plans that were recently announced. We expect the remaining 80 jobs to be provided by South Western Services which is transferring part of its operation from Bandon to Clonakilty due to under-capacity in Bandon.
One can imagine the increase in transactions in our local post office as a result of these 230 jobs alone. The Department of Agriculture and Food decentralised part of its district veterinary office to Clonakilty just two year ago and it is a large customer of our post office. In December 2003, the Government announced the provision of up to 300 affordable houses on lands at Darragh college, Clonakilty, which will bring more families and business to our local post office. Our industrial and service base is also expanding rapidly. A few years ago, Clonakilty and district had approximately 400 beds available on any one night, whereas we now have up to 4,000 beds available on any one night, which shows the increase in the size of Clonakilty and district. Our tourism season has been extended from three months to almost eight months with excellent weekends throughout the year. Clonakilty is now synonymous with tourism and is a popular holiday destination.
How could anyone conclude that Clonakilty should be included in any programme for downgrading when it is evident it is in a period of great expansion? The decision to downgrade any service in Clonakilty could only be made by people who are unfamiliar with our town. Late last year, Dunnes Stores opened a new 12,000 sq. ft. supermarket in the town and Supervalu commenced building a 20,000 sq. ft. supermarket beside its existing store. That proves everyone has confidence in our town except An Post.
The Communication Workers' Union concluded an agreement on a clerical grade and pay review with An Post, which was assisted by the Labour Relations Commission. This was accepted comprehensively in a ballot of CWU members in post offices in September 2002. This agreement also provided for a restructuring of the company network which provides for up to 50 company offices to be converted to contract status. An Post has advised the CWU that it will decide on the offices to be converted on the basis of the levels of business currently being transacted. The ballot was largely carried by CWU members in GPOs around the country where the majority of members work. Was it not a coincidence that a pay review was also included as a sweetener? Was it not strange that the CWU members in the GPOs knew their offices could not be downgraded and their position was obviously safe? Was it not unusual that An Post would make its decision on the basis of levels of business currently being transacted, taking no cognisance of local developments which would increase business volumes in future? Was it not bad management not to look at the local volume of business and see how efficient are the local staff?
Clonakilty post office has three counter staff and last year handled 186,634 computer transactions, which is a phenomenal amount for three staff members. This does not include the sale of stamps or national lottery tickets. I understand that this level of business, which is 62,000 per staff member, is well in excess of neighbouring country post offices which might have the same number of counter staff and a smaller volume of business per staff member. Surely the efficiency of the Clonakilty post office counter staff must count for something. I respectfully suggest that if every post office's counter staff were as productive and efficient as those in Clonakilty, An Post would not be in such a bad financial position.
How could faceless people make a decision for our town, one which is flawed and will have serious repercussions for our town? I call on the CWU and An Post to reconsider their decision. It takes a good person to admit to being wrong. Our aim is to retain our excellent post office in this unique and beautiful church building. I have some photographs if members wish to view them. The church building is listed and our aim is protect it in so far as that is possible. I call on the committee to ensure that An Post and the CWU examine their decision and reverse it in light of what I have just told the committee about Clonakilty's development which will continue into the foreseeable future. I ask my colleague, Councillor Phil O'Regan, to commence our presentation.
Ms Phil O’Regan
As the committee has heard, Clonakilty is a special place which has dragged itself from destitution and virtual despair to its current vibrant, thriving position. We believe we have the right to control our own destiny and we are prepared to fight to achieve it. An Post is a national organisation with a single shareholder, namely, the Minister acting on behalf of the nation. An Post is charged by legislation and by its memorandum and articles of association to provide the people with a service which satisfies our reasonable demands. We are An Post's customers and owners and it is our right and requirement to have a comprehensive and efficient postal service delivered at a reasonable cost.
If, in the first instance, An Post had restricted itself to its core activities, it would most probably have achieved a significant expertise which it could now market. An Post believes itself to be an omnipotent monster operating as a dictatorship and it perceives itself to be unanswerable to anyone. It can be comfortable with its current autocracy because its shareholder, the Minister, apparently has no function in An Post's day to day management. This also applies to ComReg and the Minister for Finance, notwithstanding that the Department of Finance and the National Treasury Management Agency have raised billions of euro from An Post's administration of savings and investment schemes.
An Post has been requested to appear before the committee to present its viability plan. Newspaper reports suggest this will include reducing its cost structure through spending and budgetary cuts, revenue generation from stamp price increases and new business, a 40% reduction in its senior staff and somewhere between 1,000 and 1,500 redundancies. Somewhere in that package is the matter of the relegation of 50 post offices, including Clonakilty, to sub-post office status. We hope the Chairman and the committee will insist on reviewing An Post's historical position before lending any support to any aspect of this plan because An Post has no understanding of the principles of business. We hope the committee will elicit from An Post the criteria and rationale for every proposal in its viability plan and will recommend to the Minister that the plan should——
I am sorry, I must interrupt Ms O'Regan. I do not know who you are in the Visitors Gallery, but you have no right to have a mobile telephone on during an Oireachtas committee hearing. I ask members, if they have telephones, to switch them off, although I know they would not leave them on. There is only one parliament in this country and I expect it to be treated as such by visitors in the Visitors Gallery and anyone else who appears before the committee. I apologise to Ms O'Regan for the interruption.
Ms O’Regan
We hope the committee will recommend to the Minister that any plan presented will be subject to rigorous independent assessment before implementation. An Post cannot inspire any confidence that it knows what it is doing or why it is doing it. It told the Minister it lost €6.7 million in 2001 and would break even in 2002. It now seems it lost €70.5 million in 2002, but did it? Some €17 million of that figure is a trading loss and €53 million is a provision against redundancy costs.
Let us consider the loss. The SDS parcel service was supposed to lose €4.5 million and it has reputedly lost €11.5 million. It spent €14.7 million acquiring a mobile top-up company in Spain and a direct mail company in St. Albans in Hertfordshire in the UK. These two companies lost €3.2 million. It wants 1,450 redundancies, including 120 senior head office personnel. Instead, it increased its head office staff by 10%. It has 200 more postal sorters today than it had in 1998, despite using €100 million from the sale of Ireland On-Line to create three postal centres. Automation of the postal service was proffered as the solution to all its ills. These centres can sort only certain types and sizes of mail. Some 6% of all envelopes are not franked and the stamps therefore could be reused, so An Post provides clerical staff to cancel manually the stamps that have not been franked through the system.
An Post has created a monster in its arrangements for mail it cannot deliver. Apparently, in Portlaoise more than 6 million letters have lain undelivered for more than a year because there is nobody there to open them and return them to their senders. The CWU will not appear before the committee today. It did a sweetheart deal with An Post in 2002, yet it complains it has not been provided with the criteria for redundancies. It is no surprise to us in Clonakilty that An Post declined to provide the criteria to the CWU. An Post habitually declines to provide its criteria for anything. In the case of the 50 proposed post office redesignations, An Post said that its decision affects the 50 least busy offices but it refuses to decide what "least busy" means. It also refuses to state what year constitutes its base reference data year. Clonakilty post office is under threat, but it conducted 186,634 computer-tracked transactions in 2003 in addition to the sale of stamps, dog licences, lottery tickets and so on, none of which is computer-tracked. This is all done by two counter staff who are on duty on a continual basis.
Independent research by businesses offering public office services, including a financial institution, has concluded that 170 to 200 transactions per staff member per day is the optimum output. The staff in Clonakilty performed 356 transactions per day in 2003, which is double the cost-efficient standard of independent researchers. How many post offices in the country produce this incredible result? Every inquiry we have made based on this figure puts Clonakilty in the high-achiever bracket and deservedly so. Why does An Post conclude it is the least busy office?
Let us consider Clonakilty further. It is the only town in west Cork and in County Cork whose population has increased in the urban area by 27% between 1998 and 2003, not to mention the huge increase in its rural hinterland. Still, it is the only post office in west Cork which is threatened with extinction. We believe An Post——
I am sorry to cut short Ms O'Regan's very important submission, but we are to finish this session at 12 noon. I know she has much information to share with the committee and we will be dealing with An Post at 2 p.m. Would it be helpful if the members asked a number of questions based on the information she has given so far so that she could assist us further? Given that members are not great in terms of brevity, I ask them to be conscious that we have only half an hour left in this session. I apologise for keeping everyone a little late.
Could I have a copy of the script?
Ms O’Regan
I finished it late last night, so it is hand-written. However, I can provide a copy of some points of information on which its preparation was based.
We would like to see that so that we may use it for reference.
Ms O’Regan
Most of it is in the form of bullet points.
I welcome the mayor and deputy mayor of Clonakilty to the committee. Clonakilty is not in my constituency but I am familiar with the town and pass through it on a regular basis every summer. From the presentations we have heard this morning I conclude that Clonakilty is lucky to have such a mayor and deputy mayor. They were both passionate and detailed in their submissions.
Could Ms O'Regan or Mr. O'Brien outline in clear terms the consequences of these developments for a town such as Clonakilty? This is a case study relevant to other growth towns, of which there are many, which face a similar problem with their post office service. What are the consequences of downgrading a company office to a sub-post office? What does that actually mean for a town? If they have the relevant information, could they outline the consequences of downgrading a sub-post office to an agency? I have a good idea of what that means but it is important to put it on the record.
The witnesses have given us much information about their dealings with An Post, which will provide a basis for detailed questions for the representatives of An Post this afternoon. What level of consultation has there been with the management of An Post about Clonakilty? Has this happened by diktat? I assume from what was said that there was a great deal of surprise in Clonakilty when its post office was named as one of the 50 least busy. That surprise is backed up by some of the information we have received.
Mr. O’Brien
I thank the Deputy for his comprehensive questions. The first part of his question concerned what we think would happen if our post office was downgraded, first to a sub-post office and then perhaps to an agency. We have received different letters about this, including one from the CWU, and it seems it could well go straight from a company office to an agency. However, if it becomes a sub-post office first, our understanding is that there will be some negotiation with the current staff. There are three counter staff, two of whom are working on a rota. They will be first given the opportunity to take the post office as a sub-post office. Having spoken to the staff members, we believe this is not financially viable. According to one figure we have been given, they would be allocated approximately €75,000 to run the post office, of which about 10% would go on rent. After that they would need to cover rates, insurance and other running costs. We believe the balance would not even approach the current salaries of these three people. That is why we believe An Post will change the office directly to an agency office.
As an agency office, the service will be transferred to an existing retail outlet, so that the loss can be absorbed into the overall running costs of a supermarket. As a result there will not be the same level of service that is currently being provided by trained staff, who may or may not transfer to the new retail outlet - we understand they will not be moving. If they do not go, their expertise will be lost. Equally important to us, because of the excellent location of our post office, is that the office could go to the periphery of the town. One can imagine, for example, the position of old people who must collect their pensions. Most of them attend mass and collect their old age pensions afterwards from the post office where it is now located opposite the church. If it was on either end of the town near the large supermarkets, that would not be possible and there would be a dilution of services. That would be particularly so in the case of the agency.
We had no communication from An Post until one of the staff members, having heard it from the union, told me it was coming down the line. I wrote to An Post which confirmed that Clonakilty was one of the 50 offices on its list to be redesignated from a company to a sub-post office or an agency office. That was the only communication from An Post. It was foisted on the staff with no consultation and no criteria of which we know. A rational mind has to ask why An Post picked Clonakilty if it is so efficient. Our theory is that An Post believes the building has some value and may want to dispose of it. It is a protected building so hopefully that will not happen too easily. My colleague may have more to add.
Mr. O'Brien and Ms O'Regan are from my constituency and I endorse Deputy Coveney's welcome to them. I am grateful to them for presenting us with a very statistically accurate and well-researched set of propositions. I share their concern about any downgrading of the status of Clonakilty. This also applies to another 40 or 50 towns, including my hometown, Bantry, and possibly Bandon, and many more not only in Munster.
Can Ms O'Regan explain the procedure for sorting the post in Clonakilty when it returns from Little Island? I understand that it is not cost efficient and that there is an overlap of services and duplication of sorting. Has there been any research done on the possibility of expanding the services of An Post in towns such as Clonakilty? For example, when I was a member of Cork County Council, I said that one could go into a local post office in Britain and get one's car tax, instead of travelling 60 or 70 miles or doing it by post. If An Post downgrades all these post offices, will that cure the very obvious ills, financial and otherwise, from which it suffers? It seems to be in dire straits and is using this as an excuse to downgrade 50 post offices. Is there much of a saving in this or is it a farcical exercise?
Ms O’Regan
I start from the premise that if An Post was a normal business as opposed to a semi-State body it would long since have been in liquidation and its directors probably would have been looking at great losses. One has to wonder how anyone can run a business which, based on our research, seems to have developed a life of its own. I will answer Deputy O'Donovan's questions. There are three mail centres in the country. The €100 million raised from the sale of Ireland On-Line was used to provide them. Post from every location in the country is collected and taken to Little Island, Portlaoise or Athlone, depending on which centre on a particular day happens to be busiest. It goes through the automatic machine to be sorted only by town and the following morning it is sent back to Clonakilty, Skibbereen or Bantry to be sorted by street and townland at the local sorting office. Local post therefore goes on a jaunt for no better reason than that it wants to do so. If the system operated as it should the local post would be extracted at the end of every day and only the non-local post would be sent on in the lorries to the clearing centres. That would reduce transport costs - it might require one vehicle instead of two - and avoid putting a large quantity of post through a machine and hastening its expiry date. Machines have a limited lifespan.
No great thought was given to how that system should work. It is not very different from the way the returned letters system operates. In the old days, if a letter arrived in Clonakilty or Bantry and the postman could not deliver it because he could not identify the person to whom it was addressed, a responsible official opened it in the local post office and returned it to the sender. That does not happen now. All the post that cannot be delivered is apparently sent to a place in Portlaoise where more than 6 million letters are held for over a year with no staff opening, sorting and returning them. Some day it will be done, but at what cost?
An Post did a deal with AIB for a bill pay service which has worked exceedingly well, but there is some suggestion that it cannot extend that service to other bill paying for two or three years and cannot add other creditors to the system for bill paying. Even if it downgraded 50 post offices, that will not cure the problem because the haemorrhage is elsewhere. All the facts available to us show that the post office counter service is profitable while the postal delivery service may not be. It may be at break even level but all the other actions, such as the 120 people in head office it wants to make redundant——
We are meeting this afternoon with An Post and we will give it an opportunity to respond to the issues that Ms O'Regan has raised. It may have a different emphasis on them. Rather than solve the problems of An Post, which we will attempt to do at 2 p.m. when the company tells us about its survival plan, it is most important that we discuss the fate of Clonakilty post office and others around the country. We are grateful for the submission which mirrors what is happening around the country.
I thank the mayor and deputy mayor for their eloquent presentation. I have some knowledge of Clonakilty post office because a party colleague on the local council torments me on the issue. Is there a hidden local factor that explains what appears to ordinary people to be a mad decision? Is it the case that in the 21st century there will be a worse postal service than we had 15 years ago? Is there some hidden factor that Mr. O'Brien can share with the committee?
Before Mr. O'Brien answers the Deputy's question, Deputy Jim O'Keeffe, a constituency colleague of Deputy O'Donovan, also has a question.
I am not a member of this committee, but I am glad of the opportunity to be here because it is a local issue that greatly concerns me. It is great that local people are prepared to fight their own corners. It is what one would expect from the hometown of Michael Collins. The presentation was excellent and it made an unanswerable case. I wish the vibrancy that is so obvious in Clonakilty was evident in all the towns of west Cork.
The delegation has posed a number of questions for An Post. My first question is akin to that raised by Deputy Morgan. Why does the delegation think that An Post has picked on Clonakilty? Clonakilty is the fastest growing town in County Cork with a huge explosion in bed nights because of the rainbow Government's introduction of the coastal resort scheme, which led to the development of guest houses and hotels in the area. However, looking to the future, apart from the decentralisation programme that involves the BIM headquarters going to Clonakilty, there has been the decision of South Western Services to locate at the technology park. Is it not correct that SWS Group is one of the largest users of An Post in the country? It has the contract for processing the registration of the seven million cattle herd. It has also secured the contract for the processing of the penalty points system, as well as other such contracts. It is the leading expert in this area and is an enormous user of An Post. Why does the delegation believe that An Post has singled out a town in the course of rapid development? Why should An Post pull the plug on Clonakilty?
I commend the Chairman for inviting the Clonakilty delegation, which has so ably presented its case. Outside the delegation, no one on this committee knows "Clon" better than me. It is my home town that I still love so well, particularly its people. Deputy Jim O'Keeffe asked the important question: why is the post office in Clonakilty under attack, taking into account how the town and the region has grown? It beggars belief that such a decision is made by those in authority in An Post. Has the delegation come to a conclusion as to why it was made? Most members will argue that an attack is being made on rural Ireland by An Post generally. However, to single out the singular growth town in County Cork - Deputy Jim O'Keeffe and I should keep an eye on Bandon, too - is——
A question, Senator.
The other points I wished to raise have been mentioned already. I commend the delegation for its presentation.
Mr. O’Brien
I thank members and particularly Senator Callanan. One of the difficulties in answering the members' main question on the decision to downgrade the post office is that there has been no local input whatsoever. As late as last night, I spoke to a colleague of mine, a financial controller like me, where 170 jobs were lost at Brinny and Innishannon, County Cork. Normally, in these situations a financial controller looks at the overall situation to see in which areas jobs can be pruned. Obviously, one prunes the area where there are most employee illnesses. What has been done with the Clonakilty post office is in direct contrast to that procedure. The area that is often in profit is the one to be pruned. The counter staff provide good profits to An Post. There are ten mail staff in Clonakilty and obviously the mail system will have to be examined. There are various problems with mail systems not just in Clonakilty, but throughout the country. However, there has been no logic to the decision to downgrade the post office.
We have sat down with staff on many occasions to look at the operations, transactions and statistics. There is no logical or financial reason for the downgrading of Clonakilty post office. Overlooking Clonakilty post office is the statue of Michael Collins and I am sure he is now turning in his grave. If he was here today, he would be fighting our corner too.
The only reason we can advance for the decision is that An Post - I can only surmise this - did a survey of all post offices and found that Clonakilty post office is a very valuable property. It decided to offload it to generate revenue and to hell with the financial side of the operation. I have no doubt that is what it is after. Hopefully, Clonakilty town council will say that when the time comes, and if the committee has its way, that will not arise.
Is it a protected building?
Mr. O’Brien
Yes.
Much of the discussion is focused on An Post. However, the delegation is also critical of the CWU. My concept of a trade union is that it represents its members. How can the delegation make such a stark criticism of the CWU?
It is no secret that An Post is selling off assets to pay for operational losses. As any sensible person would say, this is not something that can continue over a long period because at some stage a business will run out of assets. The business then finds, if it still has operational losses, that it is in an impossible position. Is there any indication as to the value of the post office building in Clonakilty? Is it owned or leased by An Post?
If it was to be downgraded to a sub-post office, will a new location have to be found or will the existing premises have to be leased? I was concerned at Mr. O'Brien's statement that a sub-post office is not viable because if so, is it viable for An Post to keep running it? The answer is probably that An Post owns the building, so it would not have the rental costs. This needs to be clarified because An Post may well make the case that, if it is not viable as a sub-post office, why is it expected to run it as a loss maker? Clearly, it is not if the rental factors are not there. If the rationale is that because it is a valuable building and An Post sees it as an asset to be sold, it is then unfair treatment of the town. To make the case that it is closing the post office because it is one of the least 50 busy in the country is then dishonest, to be charitable. The truth needs to be established in this case. What is the timescale outlined by An Post for implementing this decision which it seems to have already made regarding Clonakilty post office?
Ms O’Regan
To answer Deputy Coveney's second last question, the building is owned by An Post. In 1924, it was sold by the Presbyterian Church to the then Minister for £1,400. In 1924, £1,400 was a great deal of money. That must give some indication of the value of this building now. It is in the heart of the town, immediately adjoining Emmet Square. It backs on to the car park. Any of the members familiar with Clonakilty will know that because property there is scarce, it is now extremely expensive. That building is probably worth a great deal of money. One reads in the newspapers that An Post wants to raise €47 million by 2005 from the sale of its properties. It is probable that An Post perceives this building to be worth a fortune, having regard to the known price——
Ms O'Regan, you have no idea of the value.
Ms O’Regan
Having regard to the known value of property in the immediate vicinity of the building, and bearing in mind that property value at any time is what the market values it at——
You cannot put a specific value on the building, a value given to you by an auctioneer. I remind the members that in the afternoon we will be exploring the strategy of the company in selling high street properties. Would Ms O'Regan proceed to the other matter?
Ms O’Regan
We think the property is worth at least €2 million.
Here, unfortunately, we can deal only with facts.
Ms O’Regan
We would base our estimate on our knowledge of the town.
I know. I thought you might have had an auctioneer's valuation.
Ms O’Regan
Regarding sub-post offices, Deputy Coveney may misunderstand the issue. If a sub-post office was to be sited in the current building, An Post would pay the manager approximately €75,000, out of which he or she has to pay rates, water and service charges, building insurance, the lease costs, public and employer's liability insurance and the salaries of the three staff. There is no way on this earth that €75,000 would cover those costs. Since the only services that can be provided at a sub-post office are postal, bill paying and lotto services and so on, that is, the services currently available, the post office building or its manager would have no capacity to raise other money from other activities. If the sub-post office was moved to a supermarket, the fee of €75,000 would still be paid. The supermarket probably would be prepared to take it on because people availing of the sub-post office services will spend more money on other products in the supermarket.
It is the same rationale that applies to a garage selling petrol.
Ms O’Regan
Yes. Since sub-post office status is probably not achievable on a purely economic basis, we are looking at something else. We should consider the profitability of An Post. Since we believe the counter service is profitable, if An Post wants to consider cutbacks it might be better for it to look at its prize bonds joint venture, its gift company joint venture, its property development company or its letting agency company. If An Post's counter service is profitable and An Post is haemorrhaging money, then there is a black hole there somewhere about which nobody knows anything. It is time it was found and An Post returned to providing the people of this nation with its core services.
As for the CWU, it would appear that before it became public knowledge that An Post was haemorrhaging money, some sort of sweetheart deal was done in March 2002, even though An Post lost €6.7 million in 2001, or acknowledged that it lost that much and yet was telling everyone it would be profitable in 2002. Nevertheless, it conducted a sweetheart deal. The provisions of the agreement between An Post and the Communication Workers' Union are available to the public. As there are so many CWU members working in large offices on the eastern seaboard and in Galway and Limerick, they were able to vote to preserve their own offices in exchange for a 12.5% wage increase and a few other items. The volume of rural clerks who voted against this agreement was no counter-weight to those in the larger centres.
One must also remember that when we think of An Post, we think of the counter service, or the postman, yet there are only 800 employees providing An Post's counter service across the country. If the 800 clerks are working at all as hard as the clerks in Clonakilty, performing twice as much work per person that independent research shows they should be performing, then certainly the money haemorrhage is somewhere else.
Did you get a closure date?
Mr. O’Brien
The year 2005 would appear to be the deadline. That was in the original negotiations with the CWU but it may have changed since then. As of now, staff are due to leave in mid-2005.
Would Mr. O'Brien like to submit anything else to the committee before we finish? I want to make a closing statement and to thank you for attending.
Mr. O’Brien
I thank the Chairman for the opportunity to appear here today. I also thank the staff and the committee members. We would like to get the opportunity to give our side of the story. It is not an issue merely for Clonakilty, but for all the other 50 post offices on the list. It is very unfair on the staff and on those towns to have post offices downgraded without any consideration of the profits made by An Post's offices in those towns. Such a move is very unusual in any management situation. We believe there are different motives involved. I have no doubt that the Chairman and the committee members will get to the bottom of the matter this evening.
I thank Mr. O'Brien, mayor of Clonakilty, and Ms O'Regan. We had requests from groups from all over the country to appear before the committee but we chose Clonakilty because we felt one group might very well be able to reflect the views of the different communities affected by the downgrading of their post offices.
Some very serious questions have been raised here today about the policy of direct post office closures and sub-post office status. These matters need to be raised by the committee members in the afternoon with the managers of An Post. It is necessary to focus on the policy relating to changing the post office system and to ask whether the system is of overall importance to the company.
We thank the witnesses for their presentation. We will go into private session.