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JOINT COMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS, MARINE AND NATURAL RESOURCES debate -
Wednesday, 31 May 2006

Non-Ionising Radiation: Presentation.

I welcome Ms Clara Leahy from Glenbeigh, who is accompanied by Councillor John O'Connor, Ms Helen Murphy, Ms Mary Griffin and Mr. Bill Leahy. I thank them for their assistance in considering the joint committee's review of non-ionising radiation from mobile phone handsets and masts. This group will bring insight on recommendation 3.11 of the joint committee's report. Deputies O'Donoghue, Healy-Rae, McEllistrim, Moynihan-Cronin and Ferris and Councillor Cahill encouraged us to invite the witnesses. We must only work within the brief of this committee and must not consider matters within the environment remit.

The witnesses may make a ten minute presentation before members ask questions. I ask for all mobile phones to be switched off. I draw attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege this privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. The committee cannot guarantee any degree of privilege to witnesses. Members are also reminded of long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official, by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I invite Ms Leahy to summarise her presentation.

Ms Clara Leahy

I thank the Chairman and members of the joint committee on behalf of the Glenbeigh community. We have the support of our community and many communities around the country, the support of Kathy Sinnott, MEP, the Minister for Arts, Sports and Tourism, Deputy John O'Donoghue, Mayor Toireasa Ní Fhearaíosa, Kerry county councillors and that of the national group, Better Environmental and Safer Telecommunications, BEST.

As time is limited I note our submission of the following to the Chairman, committee members, our delegate group and media sources: a copy of signed statements from Kerry county councillors stating that they are being undermined by the Government and An Bord Pleanála; a copy of the Kerry county planning authority refusals for such masts followed by the automatic overturning by An Bord Pleanála of 100% of cases since 2004; a copy of today's submission; a copy of the planning regulations of 2001; a copy of the welcome note from the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Dick Roche, on the website www.environ.ie; a copy of a letter from the Department of Health and Children; a list of board members of An Bord Pleanála and the functions of the board; the report of the Irish Doctors Environmental Association, IDEA, on the Oireachtas committee from February 2005; the address of the chairman at the annual meeting of the IDEA in February 2006; the evidence from the Birmingham scrutiny committee; and the IDEA study on sensitivity on non-ionising radiation in Ireland.

It is sad to think that we live in a dictatorship pawned off as a democracy. We appear before this committee to discuss telecommunications. The Government overlooks the existence of people who give its members jobs. The community of Glenbeigh welcomes technology but the correct siting of these masts is crucial to our existence. These masts are being erected to ensure the most up-to-date technological services in Ireland. Someone using a mobile phone has the freedom to choose to use it. In this process, the communities of Ireland are given no choice about location, health, future planning for homes, saving our jobs and ensuring safe food for animals on our land. The community of Glenbeigh does not intend to be subjected to bullying in 2006. It appears that the Kerry county development plan is being undermined by the Government and An Bord Pleanála, particularly with regard to telecommunications masts. It appears that the National Development Plan 2000-2006 is more important than the health and safety of the people and that An Bord Pleanála has the right to undermine the recommendations of this committee on non-ionising radiation from mobile phone handsets and masts.

The people of Glenbeigh have a past and a present but our future is in the hands of people who see fit to jeopardise our health and play God with our lives. Glenbeigh's setting is one of the most panoramic settings in the country, with archeological and geological sites, historical references and flora and fauna. The people have religious respectability and a passion to survive. Five masts exist within a two-mile radius of Glenbeigh and two new applications are proposed at Curraheen, beside a school, and at Coolnaharragill Lower. There is also a proposal to extend an existing mast at Gowlane, Glenbeigh. Each mast is less than 1 km from homes, schools playgrounds and our church. The applications for permission to construct these masts are the same as for a home but if we were to seek planning permission for a home the county council would require erection of a red and white pole to indicate the height of the building. If Vodafone makes an application and it is refused by the county council, it can be automatically overturned by An Bord Pleanála without being required to erect the red and white pole. There is one law for the rich and another for the ordinary people.

It is timely that we remember Chernobyl, a man-made catastrophe. In 2006 our Government is silently participating in a similar action which may take a number of years to unfold. The Government wishes to be seen to pressurise the British Government about Sellafield despite having allowed Irish workers to handle asbestos. Asbestos was considered safe to handle 40 years ago. Some 20 years later questions were raised regarding its safety and now specialists, wearing protective clothing, have to wrap it in plastic for safe disposal. We are raising similar questions about telecommunications masts and turning a blind eye to these environmental issues does not mean they will go away. They will haunt us and our children.

The IDEA has undertaken the first public health investigation into those suffering from electromagnetic sensitivity. The report documents the suffering and symptoms experienced by those who are electrosensitive. It is a condition suffered by between 1% and 5% of the population. This could amount to 200,000 people. We require the following from the Government and Vodafone: a letter of guarantee for each and every member of the community stating that our health will not be affected; compensation for the devaluation of our properties; discussion with the community on the relocation of masts far from homes and people or the possibility of satellite options if sufficient research has been carried out.

The ICNIRP guidelines date to 1998, the IRPA guidelines date to 1988 and it appears that studies carried out in 2003, 2004 and 2005 suggest serious health issues are caused by non-ionising radiation emissions from mobile telephone handsets and masts. The more up-to-date studies should take preference and the existing guidelines should be considered obsolete and updated.

In June 2005 the Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources put together an excellent report on non-ionising radiation from mobile phone handsets and masts for which it should be commended. It appears reasonable health doubts exist. These warrant full and independent investigation unless the Government wants to be held responsible. Full implementation of the committee's guidelines should be immediate.

It is not acceptable that only 400 of approximately 4,000 masts erected are monitored, nor that we do not have confirmation on how many masts exist in Ireland. It is not acceptable that ComReg does not have the medical expertise with which to draw conclusions, nor that contradicting evidence of serious health effects is covered up by the Government.

In 1998, the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Enterprise and Transport compiled a report on non-ionising microwave radiation emissions from communications masts. At that time it made recommendations on health, including:

9.15The Department of Health and Children should examine the report commissioned by the EC on electro-sensitivity and advise if its recommendations could be usefully implemented in Ireland.

9.16The Department of Health and Children should set up a panel of medical experts from which individuals, who consider their health is affected by masts, may select three to carry out medical examinations on payment by the individual of an appropriate fee. This fee will be refunded to the individual in a case where the medical experts agree that health problems are attributable to masts.

9.17The Department of Health and Children should include a statement in its forthcoming national environmental action plan setting out clearly the up-to-date position in relation to microwave radiation and human health.

9.18The Department of Health and Children should supply the Director of Telecommunications Regulation with the latest public information in relation to health risks for inclusion in her annual report.

It appears that in 2006, eight years after that report and its recommendations, the Minister for Health and Children has nothing to state on this matter as it is more appropriate to the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, as per the copy of her letter enclosed for the attention of the committee. The Minister chose to ignore the recommendations. This is unacceptable when questions are being asked on health issues.

The British Medical Journal recognises a medical condition results from such microwave transmissions. Why are we so far behind other European countries where radiation levels are significantly lower than in Ireland? Why are the Swiss and Scottish Governments removing all masts and antennae near houses, schools, playgrounds and people and relocating them at much safer distances? Do not forget that every house has a playground.

One must question why re-insurers across the world do not allow insurance companies in Ireland to cover for loss or liability which arises out of or is contributed to directly or indirectly by exposure to magnetic electric or electromagnetic fields or radiation however caused or generated. Insurance companies worldwide do not cover for the following three items: an act of God; a terrorist attack or emissions from telecommunications masts. That says it all.

In this, an age of equality, committee members will understand and ensure that the following questions are answered before any applications are processed, including those relevant to Glenbeigh. Why are 100% of telecommunication masts applications refused by Kerry County Council then overturned by An Bord Pleanála regardless of concerns regarding health, safety, devaluation of property, depopulation and loss of local jobs and local infrastructure? To whom is An Bord Pleanála answerable? Is An Bord Pleanála exempt from the Freedom of Information Act and, if so, why and who processed such an exemption? Who funds An Bord Pleanála? Who set the terms of reference which An Bord Pleanála follow?

Why are State owned buildings exempt from any planning permission? Is it purely for money reasons? Do different rules apply to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Government than apply to the general public of Ireland and, if so, why? Again, it is timely that the Garda conference in Killarney also queried this matter. Do the international guidelines for acceptable levels of radiation refer to each antennae on a mast or the antennae combined? We cannot get this information.

As a result of the public session with the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Environment and Local Government on 10 May 2006, we wish to know when does that committee intend to have An Bord Pleanála before it to query the procedures by which it makes its decisions? How long will it take to have the recommendations implemented by the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources? Through what process does this take place? If our help is required we will provide it. What is an acceptable timeframe in which to have our questions answered? It is not ten or eight years and neither is it acceptable to put something on a desk and forget about it. If that is the only answer we get today, we are happy to receive it and will seek due process.

We propose that until we have the answers to all questions, including the questions outlined in the report of the Joint Committee of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, an undertaking be taken here today to ensure that all procedures regarding applications in Glenbeigh or elsewhere be stopped. We also propose that oral hearings be allowed, if requested, with An Bord Pleanála. I understand they are not allowed at present. That is our democratic right. The planning application notice for telecommunications masts should be of a definite colour and size, different to that for a house, to ensure it is seen from a distance. Red and white poles should be erected on the site proposed for such masts.

Planning notices should be in local newspapers, not in the broadsheets or other Irish newspapers. At present, they are covered up and not seen until two days before the deadline for objections to be received. Every other avenue such as satellite options should be examined before allowing these masts to be put near any life form. The World Health Organisation guidelines, the ICNIRP and the IRPA guidelines should be updated immediately in line with studies conducted worldwide.

We are the communities and voters of Ireland. We ask the committee to ensure that democracy returns and not to cover up the dictatorship which exists or the evidence before us. We also propose that a meeting be set up with the committees for health and children and the environment and local government and request this committee's help in that. This is important because the Departments do not seem to communicate with each other. They all work within their own remit. It is crucial that we meet all Departments to bring this issue to their attention.

Was that last proposal in Ms Leahy's presentation?

Ms Leahy

It was a last minute addition.

Will Ms Leahy finish because we have gone over time? I gave her 15 minutes.

Ms Leahy

I thank the Chairman.

We trust this matter will get the due consideration it deserves and that honesty will prevail. We in Glenbeigh intend to follow this through and get acceptable results for everybody. We are open to communication at all times, which seems to be lacking in Departments. We are not statistics. We are living, breathing human beings who intend to reinstate a democratic society in which to live. I thank the committee for its time.

I thank Ms Leahy for her presentation and her comments on our report. What has been presented today will be considered by the committee, which will meet in private session to discuss the next steps to be taken.

I welcome the people from Glenbeigh and Kerry. I thank Ms Leahy for her excellent presentation on behalf of the residents committee. I support the locals in their cause and acknowledge the hard work done by the committee. I request the Chairman to make inquiries of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government regarding the recommendations of the joint committee and specifically, recommendation No. 10 regarding non-ionising radiation from mobile telephone headsets and masts, which recommends that planning guidelines and planning exemptions be examined with a view to ensuring that no electromagnetic emissions or radio frequency emissions emitting equipment be permitted to be sited near health centres, schools or other sensitive sites such as playgrounds, pitches and so forth. There are playgrounds and schools near this proposed mast.

I welcome the people from Glenbeigh and thank Ms Leahy for her wonderful submission. The case of Glenbeigh is a very sad one. I have received more telephone calls from people regarding Curraheen school and Glenbeigh than I have had on any other issue. That school is a rural one, on the ring of Kerry road and it is proposed to place a telecommunications mast right beside it. It is an appalling scandal. I appeal to the Chairman to invite representatives of An Bord Pleanála to appear before the committee so that we can ask questions of them on behalf of the people of Glenbeigh and south Kerry. Ms Leahy and the people from Glenbeigh are not alone with regard to this type of problem. Mr. Dara Lynch and Mr. Gerry O'Shea are here representing Kenmare, which has an enormous problem relating to a mast on the Garda station. They are here to support the people of Glenbeigh and are watching every move that is being made today.

The only way to address this problem is to discuss the matter with An Bord Pleanála. The board has gone behind the backs of the people, overturned a decision made by Kerry County Council and granted permission for the construction of this mast. My candid view, which may be taken as a threat, is that the people who intend to erect masts in Curraheen and Kenmare will not succeed in doing so. The people of Glenbeigh do not want the mast and will not take it and the same is true for the people of Kenmare.

I thank Ms Leahy for her eloquent presentation. Unfortunately, the planning and erection of mobile telephony masts does not take the health and safety of children, or people generally, into consideration. This is known to the Government and all of the relevant agencies. In my area of Lispole almost 95% of locals signed a petition opposing the erection of a mast. Meteor made an application to Kerry County Council, which was refused. It appealed the decision to An Bord Pleanála and the council's decision was overturned. The mast was erected. A few months later, it was removed but now it has been erected again. The democratic wishes of the people of that area have been totally violated by the system and the Government.

I visited the Black Valley with the Chairman and we listened to the concerns of the people of that area. There was a political attempt to remove the one mile radius stipulation from the Kerry county development plan and the people of the Black Valley were used in that attempt. Vodafone and others were, for political reasons, manipulating the Black Valley to have the stipulation removed from the county development plan. My understanding is that a section 140 motion from councillors is coming before the county council to grant planning permission. There seems to be no consideration for the people of the Black Valley. That is political opportunism. People are turning one way and the other on the issue.

I was a member of Kerry County Council when the clause or stipulation was put into the county development plan. It was proposed by Councillor Billy Leen and received 100% support from councillors present. It was inserted because the councillors took cognisance of the democratic wishes of the people. Masts were proposed for Farmers Bridge, outside Tralee, for Ballymacelligott and for Lispole. I was involved in the campaigns opposing those masts but unfortunately, we lost. There are cameras and surveillance equipment on the mast at Lispole to ensure that it remains in place, against the wishes of the local people. The mast is protected by this State.

Any mast can be erected on a fixed building without planning permission. Compensation will only be paid if a mast is erected on a Garda station. That is not the case if a mast is erected beside a school. What does that tell us? The situation is that a company applies for permission to erect one mast. However, there is a clause in the planning application which allows for extensions to that mast. Therefore, people are agreeing to one mast, only to discover there will be three or four. The question arises as to whether the level of emissions from one mast is multiplied by the extensions to it.

We are constrained by time.

I appreciate that. The people of Glenbeigh have a difficult struggle ahead. They will have no problem as far as I am concerned. I have been involved in campaigns on this issue, as has my party, all over this island. They will face enormous opposition to their position but I commend them for taking a stance. They should have no doubt that the people who are genuinely concerned about the future of our children will support them wholeheartedly.

I welcome Senator Coghlan to the meeting but I ask him to be brief.

I welcome the delegation and thank Ms Leahy for her excellent submission. I welcome Mr. Leahy, Ms Griffin, Ms Murphy and Mr. O'Connor.

I agree with what Deputies Healy-Rae,McEllistrim and Ferris have said. The joint committee has done some important work and issued excellent recommendations. The people of Glenbeigh have great faith in the Chairm an and the committee members and look forward to their future assistance.

I welcome Ms Leahy and thank her for her brilliant presentation. I also welcome Mr. Leahy, Ms Griffin, Ms Murphy and Mr. O'Connor. My colleague, Deputy Moynihan-Cronin, cannot attend as she is unwell but I will speak on her behalf.

We are very sympathetic to the view the delegation has expressed. In the past ten years many communities have wrestled with this issue. My own constituency on the north side of Dublin has a proliferation of masts but basic rules governing their distance from residential accommodation and schools were not obeyed in the process of their installation. Many sports clubs receive money from telecommunications companies to erect masts on their grounds, which is a questionable practice.

There are two issues for us. There are four networks, Vodafone, O2 and Meteor and "3", and some urban areas are served by more than one of them. When my colleague, Deputy Howlin, was Minister for the Environment in the rainbow Government of the mid-1990s he insisted on regulations to ensure that companies co-located, so that there would be one network at a time with which to deal. He also tried to make the installation of masts subject to the planning process. That has broken down since the present Government has been in power.

I am sick of receiving lists of exempted developments from Fingal County Council. There is no input from the planning process, which is most undemocratic. As Ms Leahy rightly said, it is outrageous that there is not a full planning process for each and every application. Masts have been erected in my constituency in disguise, in one case as a chimney above a shopping centre. Subsequently it was given retention permission and we were denied any input into the matter.

It is too early in the life of this technology, which is just ten to 15 years' old, to know whether it will ultimately be harmful. The joint committee's report raised disturbing issues. The ball is in the court of the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Deputy O'Donoghue. We talked yesterday about passing a law to protect our children and hopefully will do so next Wednesday. If the Minister and his party so wanted they could remove the exemption in the planning rules and allow a full planning process. We could issue a directive to the four companies in question. A number of us met the new head of Eircom yesterday, Mr. Pierre Danon, who is also the head of Meteor and is piggybacking on O2 at the moment. We could suggest to him he work in concert with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, the Department of Health and Children and the HSE to ensure the process is safe. If that were the case, neither Glenbeigh nor Kenmare would have to suffer additional masts. Deputy Moynihan-Cronin is very supportive of the delegation and I have articulated what she wanted to say today.

Having attended and spoken at the BEST meeting in Limerick I am well aware how the people of Glenbeigh feel on the proposed masts. Many groups from different parts of the country expressed similar sentiments. Ms Leahy did not attend today to be complimented on her presentation — she wants action. When the Planning and Development Act 2000 was being passed in 2001 the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources exerted pressure to accelerate the process of mobile telecommunications for the benefit of Ireland's business community. As a result, many exemptions were included in the Act and the mobile telephone companies took advantage to erect masts on buildings, particularly Garda stations and high buildings around the country. One such mast has just been erected on Abbeyfeale Garda station and I received a telephone call during the week on whether anything could be done about it. I replied that, regrettably, nothing could be done because it was exempt, which came as a surprise to some of the people at the meeting. The mast is part of a co-location which all mobile telephone operators will use.

Deputy Broughan is probably correct to say that there has been a mushrooming of mobile telephone masts far exceeding what was envisaged in the Planning and Development Act 2000. The companies pay lip service to the idea of co-location but it does not happen, because they regard themselves as independent commercial entities. The Government should review the exemptions in the Planning and Development Act 2000 and consider whether they are compatible with the present situation, particularly as regards co-location.

Ms Leahy said in her initial statement that there were already five masts in Glenbeigh, which is more than enough for any small rural community. Her case for opposing two further masts is valid. As legislators we should examine the present legislation in light of the fact that circumstances in 2006 are not compatible with those in 2001. There are in excess of 4,000 masts, though Ms Leahy is correct to say we do not know the precise figure. They have grown rapidly and something must be done because it is not only a problem in Kerry but in Limerick, and it is causing furious annoyance.

Ms Leahy is correct to draw a parallel with asbestos. The council will state that the jury is out on the health implications and will not, therefore, refuse a mast on health grounds. One or two objections have been successful in Limerick, usually on archaeological grounds. One in Ardagh was near the place where the chalice was found. In most cases where the council refused an application, An Bord Pleanála overturned the decision, but the council would have been in tune with the local sentiment. If masts can be co-located on top of a Garda station why can that not be the case with the five existing masts in Glenbeigh, instead of creating an extra mast?

They are antennae.

I thank the group for its submission. I apologise for being late but I was tied up elsewhere and have not yet perfected the art of bilocation, though I am working on it. It might happen in the coming year.

The case as presented is valid and must be examined. The only way to do so is, as Senator Finucane suggested, to draw up precise regulations setting out the grounds on which permission can be granted for masts. They should have regard to health, environmental and planning considerations. They should be clearly set out in law and not open to different interpretations at different times. In the joint committee's report of last year recommendations were made, not just on masts but mobile telephone use in general, with a view to ensuring that health and safety standards were observed.

The visual impact is one aspect of the problem. I would not like to see a mast painted a garish colour so that it would stand out from the countryside. That would increases the visual impact but would not take away anything else. I know what the witness is saying, and the important thing from her point of view is that there are guidelines set down within which consideration can be given to the granting of permission.

I have met Ms Leahy before and I speak, like some other members, as a former member of both a health authority and a county council. We should mention that An Bord Pleanála is not required to have regard to a county development plan. The reason is that planning law must be applied evenly throughout the land, which is the job of An Bord Pleanála. The local county development plan does not affect it and it can disregard the plan.

There is a legal term for the following, and some of our lawyers can inform us on it. If An Bord Pleanála has made a decision in respect of a particular case once, it is likely to have to go the same route in similar circumstances. This is one of the reasons we have a series of cases overturned. For example, I and other members would have attended oral hearings. I attended an oral hearing six or seven months ago which went on for two weeks. We lost it, and one cannot win them all. It related to a landfill, which was an emotive issue, but rules were there.

From the witnesses' perspective, the important issues are whether there are precise regulations as to location of a mast adjacent to a building in which people live or work etc. The point has been made already by Senator Finucane, but if this is not done, An Bord Pleanála will continue to do the same as on previous occasions. It will not work apart from such a process.

I accept that the visual impact of some masts can be very intrusive and can cause problems for people who do not necessarily want to see a particular object through the window. Existing masts, in some cases, have been replaced or modified. This has sometimes happened without permission and where there is no entitlement to do so. An Bord Pleanála has made decisions on such matters. Precedent has been set which the witnesses can take on board.

It is all down to whatever regulations exist with regard to planning and health and safety. When they are set out, everybody can observe them all over the country, in Kenmare, Glenbeigh, Sutton, Kildare and anywhere else.

I will be very brief as I know what we must do later on. I welcome the delegation from Glenbeigh. What is being said could be replicated for many areas throughout the country. I was particularly interested in the comments about one of the masts being located beside the school in Curaheen. I have that exact problem currently in my own parish on the outskirts of Waterford city. The local GAA club put a mast up next door to a school and it is causing significant problems.

More than anything else we must push No. 10 in our recommendations from last year. I know we can return to this later when we have the inter-departmental committee before us.

Ms Leahy referred to the red and white posts being there to show the height of the proposed structure.

Ms Leahy

I believe Deputy Durkan thought the mast should be a different colour. I was referring to the application itself and the colours of the red and white posts.

I will make a suggestion which the committee can consider. The delegation has mentioned many things in its own presentation and I disagree with some words used. This country is not a dictatorship, it is a democracy. The delegation is in the Houses of the Oireachtas today, a democratic institution. I would hope that the word "dictatorship" might be dropped from any future submissions made to the committee or anybody else. This would be in the delegation's own interest.

I wish to make it quite clear there is no conclusive scientific evidence to suggest there are any health risks from emissions from antennae or non-ionising radiation emissions. There are no conclusive reports as yet. We looked at every relevant report when we compiled our own report. We must of course take a precautionary approach. That is the reason we have put forward recommendation No. 10 and other issues.

We will be hearing from the expert group set up on our advice, and the delegation is welcome to stay, listen to it and see the progress it is making with regard to possible health defects from non-ionising radiation. I agree with my colleague, Deputy Broughan, that this question of non-ionising radiation is too young yet. We still do not fully comprehend how it will impact. Does Ms Leahy have a mobile phone, and if so, does she use it?

Ms Leahy

I do. With all respect, I have the freedom of choice to use it. It is not on the whole time.

I am just asking the question. With regard to Deputy Healy-Rae's concerns, the committee will consider that the OPW should be approached immediately on this matter. I have a document which shows a monstrosity of a mast in the centre of Kenmare. I would like a presentation from Deputy Healy-Rae so that we can forward it to the OPW for comment.

We will consider whether there should be a review of regulations and exemptions, as some of the members have mentioned.

We have all heard the same story. The safety aspect, for example, was mentioned. The British Chief Medical Officer has stated that children under eight should not have mobile phones. Should we propose to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, that the exemption scenario be scrapped? The Chairman has correctly mentioned that we are a democratic forum.

We will not do that today. To be proper, we will consider all the evidence given to the committee today. We will consider the responses and statements made by members, and we will formulate our response to that by engaging with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and the Department of Health and Children. We will make a number of further recommendations in this review.

I thank the Chairman on behalf of the people of Glenbeigh for the good reception he has given them today. I propose that we send a submission on the structures in Kenmare to the OPW immediately.

I thank the Deputy. I am sorry for rushing the delegation. We have given the delegation an opportunity to speak, and it has been very helpful to us. We will report back to the delegation.

Ms Leahy

Will the Chairman give a timeframe in which the committee will report back? It would not be unfair to ask this.

I could not as it is a matter for the committee to decide. That the committee has met and the delegation has been asked to appear before it is an indication that we are very keen to drive this matter forward.

Ms Leahy

What of the questions I have asked? Will somebody come back with answers?

In committee, we will consider all the questions asked. We will formulate our own report, deciding as a committee how we will progress.

Ms Leahy

Somebody will come back to us at some stage in writing with answers to the questions.

Absolutely. We will inform the delegation of what the committee will do.

Ms Leahy

The reason I feel it is an undemocratic society is that I would have thought we were entitled to have an open forum on such an issue, rather than just making a ten-minute submission and not debating the issue. There is clear evidence——

Is Ms Leahy talking specifically about today's proceedings?

Ms Leahy

We would welcome it anywhere. We are not getting an open forum.

I must pause the meeting. I am delighted the delegation attended today.

Ms Leahy

I thank the committee. Evidence is there.

We look forward to engaging with the delegation again in the future.

Sitting suspended at 3.10 p.m. and resumed at 3.13 p.m.
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