JOINT COMMITTEE ON ENTERPRISE, TRADE AND EMPLOYMENT (Sub-Committee on Job Creation Through Use of Renewable Energy Resources) debate -
Wednesday, 20 May 2009

Microgeneration and Renewable Resources: Discussion with Irish Rural Link.

Acting Chairman

I welcome the following: Mr. Séamus Boland, chief executive officer; Mr. Vincent Nally, membership development officer; and Mr. Seán O'Leary, communications and policy officer, from Irish Rural Link. I thank them for attending and apologise for the fact that we are running late.

I draw attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege, this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I ask Mr. Boland to commence his statement.

Mr. Séamus Boland

I thank the committee for inviting us to come before it to present our case. I hope we will not detain members for too long. We forwarded information to the committee which I will summarise for the benefit of members.

Irish Rural Link is a national organisation, working on a voluntary basis, which was founded in 1991. Our aim is to promote a vision of vibrant, inclusive and sustainable rural communities that contribute to an equitable and just society. Ours is one of the organisations involved in social partnership. We promote the rural agenda and it is our goal to ensure fairness is the main objective at all times.

The main thrust of our presentation is job creation through the exploitation of renewable energy resources. The submission we sent to the committee in advance describes the reality of rural life, particularly in the context of employment. The economic base of rural areas is quite narrow. The rapid rise in unemployment across all sectors will be most difficult to resolve in rural areas where there is an over-reliance on primary industries such as agriculture, construction and low-level manufacturing which, unfortunately, are in decline. In the past there was a huge rise in the level of part-time employment. As members are aware, such employment was provided in the construction industry in which opportunities are dwindling. As a result, the number of jobs on offer has decreased.

Farmers who rely solely on farm incomes have a higher probability of poverty and deprivation. In common with other organisations which promote the rural agenda such as the IFA and others, we are aware that many more farmers are likely to apply for farm assist payments. Non-farmers who live in rural areas have also discovered that the jobs to which they used to have access are disappearing.

Rural communities have a strong track record of innovative thinking and adapting to changing circumstances. In that context, I cite the success achieved in bringing electricity, water and other services to rural communities. Efforts in this regard were very much voluntary in nature and community-based.

On current Government policy on energy, the White Paper, Delivering a Sustainable Energy Future for Ireland, which was published in 2007 contains commitments to renewable energy targets, including 33% of electricity generation from renewable resources, 12% of heat generated from renewable resources and a bio-fuels penetration target in the transport sector of at least 10% by the year 2020. Building Ireland's Smart Economy and the rural development programme also contain commitments in respect of energy targets, etc.

With regard to future opportunities, it is internationally accepted that renewable energy projects have the potential to create large numbers of jobs. We argue that initiatives aimed at taking advantage of these opportunities must be put in place immediately. The employment that will result from availing of such opportunities can be created in several ways. First, employment can be created in the sector in the areas of manufacturing, installation, maintenance and education. Full details in this regard are provided in our submission which is also available on our website, www.irishrurallink.ie. Another way in which employment can be created is through export potential. The Western Development Commission indicates that using wood to produce heat energy could be worth an additional €15 million per annum and lead to the creation of 900 additional jobs in rural areas. As members can see, some research has been carried out in respect of this matter. The IFA suggests there could be 5,000 jobs in biomass while the Marine Institute says 1,900 jobs can be created and we have detailed an example of what can be done in Denmark where more than 20,000 are employed in the wind sector. We should study the Denmark case and I ask the committee to examine the Danish structure to create jobs through wind, much of which was done at community level in a co-operative structure. We can go into the detail later if members have questions.

Regional income benefit is obvious. By establishing local and regional co-operatives, the money and benefits are kept in the region. Unfortunately, in terms of rural planning and development, etc., Ireland has the most nationally based infrastructure. Everything is national whether it is the transport or energy businesses. This morning we saw how decisions made at national level affect transport users at local level. That shows there is no regional input whatsoever into planning. The system in Denmark is useful in proving how things can be done on a regional basis.

An environmental dividend would result, which relates to us meeting a range of obligations to which we are tied. Equally, the development of local high quality energy infrastructure would result. There are huge advantages to looking at how energy can be created at regional level. A rural development model has been developed by five countries under the tutelage of the Carnegie Foundation, which we could use as a good structure to support such development.

There must be room for local energy audits. The great resistance generated by communities is when they hear they have to adapt to new ideas in rural areas, particularly when they face a carbon tax or an additional cost. There is huge resistance by rural communities to extra initiatives, mainly because they are usually blamed for producing too much carbon with its inhabitants travelling too many miles or using too much electricity or living in one off houses and so on. These charges are laid and some people might say that is fair enough but the community is never involved in coming to terms with possible solutions, one of which is learning how to conduct a local energy audit. This was done in County Westmeath and we will detail this later. Audits involve the community in looking at its own area. We could look at our own area in terms of saving energy. It also has the added dimension of dealing with a major problem, which is fuel poverty, and there are instances, particularly in areas of the country where turf production is ceasing, that there will be fuel poverty and the community, rather than being asked to help in the solution of this problem, is, instead, told what to do either by Parliament or a range of EU directives, which have been passed by Dáil Éireann.

We are asking for local authorities to be involved in the development of regional energy audits. That would go a long way to educate people about understanding the need to provide renewable energy sources.

The presentation outlines a number of case studies and co-operatives and policy recommendations. Mr. Nally was involved in the Westmeath audit and he will speak to the next few slides.

Mr. Vincent Nally

Approximately a year and a half ago we felt we needed to do something in Westmeath about maximising the potential of renewable energy in the county and the starting point was to conduct an audit. That was conducted by a private consultant, who examined the county in general, the available resources and how they could be maximised. The renewable energies investigated included biomass, bio-energy and the potential for oilseed rape and miscanthus willow and it also examined wind, micro-hydro and wood energy, following the explosion in private afforestation in the county 15 to 20 years ago. We also tried to identify the end user and market outlets for the different renewable energy material.

The report speaks volumes. There was a list of recommendations, which were useful in giving us direction about where we need to go in the county, and one of the recommendations was that education and information should be made available and that an energy agency should be set up in the county. When we researched that, we found a midland energy agency, which is a collaboration between four midland counties but its remit is quite narrow and it only works within the local councils. There is a need for an active energy agency working either in the county or the broader region.

We are working on delivering training courses in the near future. The Leader company, Westmeath Community Development, is adopting best practice following the delivery of the report in terms of in-house savings and education of staff and everything else. The resources were identified and the first opportunity is wind energy through the thinnings in the forest. This is something that should be maximised as an opportunity and we will hopefully try to pull together a co-operative of individuals in order that the opportunity can be maximised. That is a summary of where we are with the report. It was a useful starting point and it gave us a point in time of where we are and where we need to go.

Mr. Séamus Boland

There are nine such energy agencies around the country and we suggest the committee should examine their remit because we believe them to have a narrow remit in this area. As the local elections are in the offing, they could contribute seriously to the renewable energy debate if their remit was changed or, perhaps, augmented, and linked in a more positive way with either the existing regional authorities or the county councils or both. Their remit needs to be looked at, otherwise there will be questions about what they are doing.

We also have case studies relating to Zengia Innovation and Renewable Energy, companies that are based in Dunhill, County Waterford. We are mentioning companies with their permission. They design innovative turbine propellers and they have found difficulties in accessing finance. However, they have developed many professional networks. That is just one example of how technology has moved forward and they would be one of the leading ones. Another group which happens to be in the news more recently is the CNF in Galway. It has shown the number of jobs that can be created and the higher grade technology that can be used to improve the area of wind energy production.

We ask the committee to look further into the development of energy co-operatives. It is in the information provided and will be on record. The system in Denmark showed how local energy co-operatives can transform the renewable energy requirements of areas. It creates jobs and involves people in it so that, instead of resistance, one actually gets involvement. Co-operatives would develop locally available renewable energy resources by and for the co-operative members. They would reduce the expenditure on energy — electricity and heating — sourced from outside the county or regional area. Among the benefits would be a direct stake in a local project and an attractive financial return to members.

I know the regulator appeared before the committee. One of the great obstacles to creating new energy and selling it back to the grid is how to do it at the right price. There was a recent announcement so that farmers could in theory develop their own windmill and sell the energy back to the grid. Analysis would seem to suggest people will not really be encouraged to do that because either the regulation does not allow that freedom or perhaps the ESB may not treat the thing fairly. For renewable energy projects to work, we need to ensure they benefit the people taking the risk even at local level.

Other benefits include delivery of local energy conservation projects and individual commitment to low carbon initiatives. They would create a nationwide network of green co-operatives. Community co-operatives would share the ownership in renewable energy schemes. Community funds could be the basis of stimulating greater positive interest. Co-operatives will use local contractors for site development. The role of credit unions can be linked into that. They retain money in the local economy. Ireland has had a very good experience in developing from a very low base using the co-operative structure. It could be argued that we developed a really good agricultural and food exporting business based on the co-operatives. It could equally be argued that putting them into plcs might not have been in our best interest. The point is that we have done it already. Co-operatives raise money from local sources. People invest in types of shares. When Ireland was in much poorer times, agriculture co-operatives grew out of the ten shillings for a share to build up to what we now have as a world food business. The same can be done with energy.

We are not asking the committee to consider a proposal that seeks to drain further money from the Exchequer. We are simply asking the committee to consider giving the opportunity and power to local communities to develop this area. We have the existing energy agencies and there is a great will in terms of what people want. When the announcement was made permitting farmers and even non-farmers to use their own land, there was great excitement on their part. To some degree that has been quelled at because the return may not be what they thought it would be. The return does not need to be enormous, but it needs to be worthwhile. We strongly support the proposed co-operative system. We would challenge anybody to prove us wrong or to come up with a better proposal. Given the benefits in terms of local stake holding and providing finance, we would need a very strong argument to be convinced that it would not work.

Our policy recommends the promotion of county and local energy audits, co-ordinated by a national network of energy agencies. That would be a wonderful place to start. We detailed our problems with the planning structure and its impact on job creation. The more we consider the development of either jobs or anything else in the rural context the more we realise we have a problem with local planning. Irish Rural Link strongly believes that some Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government will need to come to terms with the planning legislation as it is applied in rural areas. We have examples of county plans involving rezoning which effectively exclude possible proposals to create energy. There is no reason for that. Such proposals definitely do not harm the environment and would lead to job creation in the local area. They would reduce the commuting times of people. One of the things that annoys us in Irish Rural Link is the charge levelled that people in rural areas travel the highest number of miles to work compared to any other European country. We do that because planning forces us to create jobs in centres rather than in the villages and towns. It is not possible to have it both ways. We strongly urge a review of the entire planning system.

Co-operatives facilitate local investment and support the flagship projects; the credit union movement is there as well. We could use the business expansion scheme and make smart use of EU funds and taxation policy. European money is coming into the country. A good example of using that money came with the announcement of the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Ryan, to use EU money to develop the broadband system. There is enough money in existing funds — even in funds that might be cut back — without needing to ask for any new money. We need to investigate development of community public private partnerships. Much is said about public private partnerships. We suggest that community developments should be added to that as it would transform the way we look at the so-called public private partnership model. The real model is how the community invests. Adding that dimension to it would make a great difference.

The public sector should be a partner and driver rather than and administrator or auditor. We held a conference in Dunhill, County Waterford, recently where many of our members asked why the public service is always the policeman or policewoman and not the developer or encourager. Why do we always need to employ people to do the regulating but not to help people develop ideas and projects? That was a very strong point made in Dunhill last week. The community sector offers leadership, skills and local knowledge.

We strongly recommend education. We have an example of an education project, which I will ask Mr. Nally to outline. In terms of education and accreditation much work could be done in bringing to people skills in terms of renewable energy.

Mr. Vincent Nally

From our study in Westmeath, we identified a significant training deficit. We recommend a review of accreditation and standardisation of training. Much training takes place but standards vary greatly. We know there is a market for it. Recently, we held an information evening at which invited speakers from Sustainable Energy Ireland explained the microgeneration scheme. We circulated a questionnaire at the meeting, which drew a considerable crowd, and were able to get a good handle on what is required from the replies.

We do not have standardisation. We argue in the report that a European standard is needed for education on renewable energy sources. The European computer driving licence, ECDL, model used in computer training is a good template. If a standardised European model were in place, it would allow those unable to make specific advances in Ireland to pursue further training in countries where it is available, for example, in Denmark or Germany. A further benefit would be the synergy such a system would create.

We referred to the Solarteur school which emerged from the ideas of Professor Werner Rauscher who recognised the need for developments in this area in 1993 in Vienna. The solar school or Solarteur model has emerged from early piecemeal development and is generating interest around the world. This model must be developed in Ireland by establishing three or four schools with a good geographical spread providing training on renewable energy sources across the board and research and development facilities.

Members will be aware of the demise of our agricultural colleges and a number of these sites are available for use. In the midlands, for instance, the Franciscan order is seeking a new, long-term use for the former agricultural college in Multyfarnham. The site would be an ideal centre for a Solarteur school and the adjacent land bank would be useful for experimentation in biomass. The Solarteur model works and has been replicated all over the world. It needs to be rolled out in Ireland because we do not yet have such a school.

Mr. Séamus Boland

Other agricultural colleges, including the college in Mountbellew, are due to close shortly. The option we advocate is not pie in the sky. This idea has not been dreamt up as the infrastructure and other structures needed to realise it are already in place.

Joined up thinking is needed in the area of renewable energy. The work of Teagasc should be linked up with the work of Sustainable Energy Ireland and other energy agencies. Rather than thinking separately, these agencies must be pulled into one thinking framework. Their mentoring capabilities must also be developed and a one-stop-shop advisory function established.

The presentation is the outcome of research done by Irish Rural Link and its members. Our proposals and ideas would deliver jobs in rural areas through the use of renewable energy. This energy must also be used for reasons other than job creation. We need to ensure people are able to remain in rural areas. The cost of our proposals would not exceed the amount of funding already available in this area provided the current approach is reorganised and we make smarter use of existing funding. The proposals would bring jobs to rural areas, cut carbon emissions from energy, reduce transport requirements and enable Ireland to honour the commitments it has made to a range of bodies on renewable energy. I thank the sub-committee for listening. My colleagues and I will be pleased to answer questions members may have.

Acting Chairman

I thank Mr. Nally and Mr. Boland for their opening statements.

Deputy Arthur Morgan

I thank Mr. Boland, Mr. Nally and Mr. O'Leary for attending. Our guests have produced one of the best presentations I have read in years. The three Deputies present are all from rural areas. The clerk is the only Dubliner present, although even he is only a blow-in from a rural area.

The delegation provided a summary of the Westmeath study. Is it possible to forward to the sub-committee a full copy of the study? I would like to examine the methodology used to complete the study.

Mr. Vincent Nally

It is available on the Westmeath Community Development website but I will forward a copy to the Deputy.

Deputy Arthur Morgan

Mr. Nally need not go to the trouble. I will download a copy from the website.

I thought Mr. Boland was winding me up when he referred to planning issues in rural areas. While I do not wish to be critical of all planners in the State — they have a job to do and many of them do it very well — some of them probably picked up their ideas on planning from a textbook on some Parisian expert of two centuries ago. Not all planners have just completed college but in some cases their ideas do not reflect the needs of modern Ireland.

The dispersal of people from the cities into peripheral and rural areas in recent years has placed strain on the links between members of extended families. For example, people used to be able to leave children at home near their grandmother and go off to work, whereas nowadays person who applies for permission for a house near the home of the grandparents invariably find that it the devil's own job to get approval, as I hardly need tell the delegation.

The joined up thinking evident in the presentation, for example, in terms of collaboration through the co-operative structure and ensuring a strong network of supply and sustainability is from the top drawer. It also comes well within the sub-committee's bailiwick in terms of our current ideas, even if we have not yet produced final proposals. The contribution of Irish Rural Link has been excellent and I hope the sub-committee will be able to link up with the delegation as we develop and firm up our proposals. We are in the same territory.

Acting Chairman

We will cluster the questions.

Deputy Arthur Morgan

I apologise in advance for leaving as I must attend another meeting. I will examine the relevant documentation, including the Westmeath study.

Deputy Michael Fitzpatrick

I, too, congratulate our guests on the quality of their presentation and the detail it provides. Mr. Nally referred to the Westmeath project. What was his input in the project?

Mr. Vincent Nally

For my sins, I am a community representative on the partnership structure, the Leader company. I live in Emper, a rural part of County Westmeath which Deputy White visited last year. There are 300 people living in our district electoral division. We experience all the problems associated with rural areas but, as Mr. Boland stated, we try to find opportunities.

We are all aware of conditions in the farming sector in terms of prices and remuneration. We need to find a means of broadening the narrow economic base in rural areas to give people a proper standard of living. As we approached the end of the previous Leader programme, the Leader company examined what needed to be done under the subsequent rural development programme. We decided to ring-fence a few euro to do an audit which would give us direction for the new programme. As the presentation shows, the new rural development programme has a particular emphasis. We are well placed to make proper use of funding under the programme to develop projects.

Deputy Michael Fitzpatrick

Mr. Nally's background shines through the presentation. It is clear it has been drawn up by people on the ground, who live locally and know what the community is concerned about. People in rural communities, especially farmers, are adaptable to new and good ideas. Rural communities in this country will adapt to the new green Ireland we are trying to create, especially in terms of job creation. Reference was made to broadband, which is badly needed in rural Ireland, and how we, as legislators, can drive this agenda forward. It is vital that broadband is put in place to put a stop to the need for commuting. A significant number of people in rural areas would not need to drive to Dublin if they could work from a computer in their sitting rooms.

On the Westmeath project, the committee has written to all local authorities to invite them to make proposals on the feasibility of locating renewable energy projects in their area. Perhaps Irish Rural Link could get involved in that matter also. We have given 3 July as a closing date for the return of submissions. The witnesses mentioned the Solarteur school and we referred to that in our letter to local authorities. That school would be worthwhile and I expect Irish Rural Link would be supportive of it. There is an input for the group in its role on the SPC in influencing local authorities.

My understanding is that the review of the regional planning guidelines is about to commence. In recessionary times it is a new challenge for planners and local authorities to put together appropriate new regional plans. It saddens me to see planners deal with planning files in a cold and calculating way without taking into consideration the real facts of the case. Reference was made to the fact that people want to live beside their parents because they are getting old and need attention. That is not always taken on board by local authorities and they need to incorporate it as part of a new approach. Irish Rural Link is trying to take all of the red tape out of community and rural development. Currently, there is a considerable amount of red tape at national, local and community levels. I hope we can try to get rid of some of that. I am aware that we are running late, so I will leave it at that.

Acting Chairman

Perhaps I can add one question and the witnesses can answer them all together. We have a dynamic energy agency in Carlow-Kilkenny, which is working well with the county enterprise board, the chamber of commerce, the local authority and anybody with an initiative to bring all the strands of renewable energy together to promote business links with the farming community in terms of renewable energy. I agree with the point that perhaps we should consider the terms of reference for those local energy agencies because they are excellent where they are working well. I can only speak for the one in my area which is working very well. I agree we should examine this area again and perhaps tie it in with what is coming down the tracks from Europe. I remember the trip around this time last year to Mr. Nally's area with great pleasure. There is a new planning Bill on the way. It will be most interesting for us to consider that.

I have been calling for a Solarteur school in my constituency of Carlow-Kilkenny for a long time. It would be beneficial if we could draw the training together in one place for all electricians, plumbers and engineers. It is a scandal that Ireland does not have such a school. I would like to see a Solarteur school in the regions. I accept we cannot have one for everyone in the audience but we could have one in each region, in the east, the south and the fringes of the Dublin area, where people could get accreditation and proper training.

As more people are getting involved in solar energy, solar voltaic energy and geothermal heating, people are installing those systems with disastrous results. I heard of one company, which shall remain nameless, that charged more than €1,000 to tell a client more or less how to flick a switch. We must cut out that kind of nonsense and make sure that the delivery of renewable energy is carried out by properly trained installers. The Solarteur concept is extremely good. We are up against the clock but I invite Mr. Boland to make a brief response.

Mr. Séamus Boland

I will be brief. As Deputy Fitzpatrick indicated, we based our presentation on something real, in which Mr. Nally and his colleagues were involved. We have examined the issue in terms of the energy agencies, what Teagasc, Sustainable Energy Ireland, the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, and local and regional planning authorities are doing. What we have observed is that there is a lack of joined-up thinking. I am pleased to hear the energy agency in Carlow is a good example, as that is not uniformly the case.

There is a tap to be switched on, namely, communities themselves, in terms of devising means such as the co-operative structure or others to take on this role with enthusiasm. Our belief is that jobs will be created and that will be a reason for people to stay in their own communities. We are heartened by the supportive comments of Deputies Morgan and Fitzpatrick. We will take whatever opportunities present in terms of submissions on this or related subjects in the future. I thank the Acting Chairman for the invitation to address the committee. I urge her to bring our proposals to wherever she can. If she needs more clarification we are more than happy to provide it.

Acting Chairman

I thank Mr. Boland, Mr. Nally and Mr. O'Leary for assisting us with our deliberations. We have had a good discussion. As a rural Deputy I am fully aware of the need to use every opportunity to promote sustainable employment in rural areas. That is the only way to secure a living countryside populated by sustainable communities.