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JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN AFFAIRS (Sub-Committee on Ireland's Future in the European Union) debate -
Tuesday, 18 Nov 2008

Vol. 192 No. 4

Discussion with Professor Farrel Corcoran.

I welcome Professor Farrel Corcoran from the School of Communications at DCU. I thank him for his understanding and forbearance because he has been delayed for over an hour. He has a tight schedule, so we will allow him the maximum amount of time to make his presentation and we will try to streamline questioning.

I wish to draw Professor Corcoran's attention to the fact that members of the sub-committee have absolute privilege but the same privilege does not apply to him or any witnesses appearing before the sub-committee.

Professor Farrel Corcoran

At short notice I supplied the sub-committee with some notes, rather than a properly compiled document. I wanted to sketch the background for the sub-committee to some of the concerns about a lack of media coverage of the EU in Ireland. The situation is like this in other countries also. There is a contradiction. On the one hand, we have a European quarter in Brussels with one of the largest concentrations of journalists in the world, yet despite the size of this news corps, we do not get a huge amount of European news onto the agendas of the media here. There is a very limited presence of EU news, newspapers and broadcasting services. I speak of research we have done in DCU with other collaborators and groups of universities. We find there is a slight difference, sometimes significant, in media which are market driven in terms of the commercial pressures on them. They tend to carry less European news compared with media which have a public service ethos. That is not a very surprising finding.

The second point I would make is that there is also a very large concentration of lobbyists. I mention this because it comes up when we talk to civil society groups, especially in Brussels. Probably the world's largest concentration of lobbyists is in Brussels, bigger even than in Washington DC. This gives rise to concern about lack of transparency in terms of who is influencing whom in the Brussels environment. It is a new concern. When we talk about the so-called democratic deficit in the European Union, this must be seen as part of it. There are a number of groups trying to open it up a little to media scrutiny in order that we have a little more news about this.

I am dipping into what we know from media research. There is no doubt that there is a correlation between what appears on the agendas of the news media, whether items on the European Union are very high or very low, and where the Union comes on the agenda of public opinion. We can see this very easily. Many studies since the 1970s in various countries have shown this. If, for example, the European Union does not appear on the agendas of the news media or appears very low down, that tends to be reflected on the agenda of public opinion also.

There has been huge concern in the Commission about this for many years. That is why it has commissioned a great deal of research by people like ourselves to try to find out what is going on, why there is an inadequate news flow between Brussels and the member states. I want to mention one or two points about this. I will not be able to end up with some very happy, easy solutions to the problem. It is a big problem that has been known about for some time. However, it might help the sub-committee to see the background.

First, in Brussels — I am talking here about research that actually talks to a great number of journalists who work in Brussels — there is a strong feeling that the Commission tends to manage the news very tightly, that it generates a great deal of information which it hopes will become news, but it generates it in a unilateral way. This is a situation one does not find in Leinster House; it is not found in the national political systems of most countries. There is that little undertow of resentment in the corps of journalists working in the European Union about this and the feeling that perhaps the information flow is being managed or manipulated. Related to this is the feeling among many journalists that they do not have access to senior officials in the Commission who might be able to carry a little news value. Again, one can see comparisons in the national political system if people can never get the chance to speak to the Taoiseach or a Minister and are blocked from doing so. This tends to be a problem. We refer to it as the difference between on the record information coming to journalists and off the record information. On the record information is the regular, professional flow of huge amounts of information coming at journalists every day through the midday briefing and other such briefings. The problem is that not much of this will be translated into news. It is a huge flow of information but not everything becomes news on television, the radio or in the newspaper. In other words, the professionalisation of this news flow tends to act as something that is not very useful for generating news. Journalists will report that they prefer covering the Parliament, news from which is easier to get. They can tie particular events to Irish MEPs which helps to generate interest at home. Two of the key news values that drive the generation of news in every newsroom are how one can personalise a news story to have more than just technical and legal information and how one can burrow in and find conflict and disagreement between people. This drives the excitement and the buzz in Leinster House and why journalists can dig in here. It is not like that in Brussels.

On the larger issues of the European project, further integration, movement towards a constitution and expansion, many journalists have told our research teams that they are critics and reporters but not advocates. I refer to euroscepticism arising from British journalism having an impact on Irish journalism. This is not just on the streets, where one can see it in newspapers, but in the working environment in Brussels.

Moving from Brussels to the home newsroom, the problem is that journalists working in Brussels must convince the news editor on a daily basis that the stories are worthwhile. This can produce difficulties. We might refer to editors as gatekeepers. Many stories are suggested by journalists in Brussels but frequently the answer is no, that there is no space — no time if it is on radio or television — or that they have no relevance nationally. I refer to a number of quotes from Irish journalists. One says the rule of thumb is to refer to Ireland in the first two paragraphs. Journalists are working on stories every day and must get through the gatekeeper in RTE or D'Olier Street. That is not easy. Part of the difficulty lies with the editor in trying to think what will work with the audience — the reader, listener or viewer. Frequently, the feeling is that news about the European Union is not interesting and is left out. Another journalist described covering European developments as like watching paint dry. This is the attitude of journalists as they try to bargain with editors on the desk. The editor is fighting for market share and to drive up readership, circulation or audiences. That is the problem. In general, editors are unresponsive to calls from journalists to loosen up a little and accept more news stories from Brussels. There is, however, a lot of opposition to this. The exceptions are what we might call the elite newspapers, the Financial Times being typical. It has access to high level sources in Brussels at the level of the Commission. It gets the best leaks from the system, the best quality information and has a full European edition which is serving an elite of industrial and financial people in Brussels and other European countries.

On the question of whether there are solutions, all of the academic networks I have been with do not come up with solutions easily and quickly. The commercial media have their priorities as regards what the market, as they see it, will bear. News is an item they must sell; it has economic value. The Commission has decided on a localisation strategy because it is frustrated by the barrier presented in the national media. It has discussed plans to overcome this and get around the national gatekeepers with more local presentations, working with local and regional news outlets. This is the idea of Europe of the citizens, one of the tags coming from Brussels. Europe of the nations implies that we must speak to the nation through the national media. One must bear in mind the problems I have outlined. From the Commission's point of view, the idea behind Europe of the citizens is to try to overcome national barriers to get through to the citizens. There is not much excitement among journalists about solutions working in Europe. For instance, there is not a great deal of investigative journalism being carried out that is sexy and really draws in audiences. Many media in Ireland and in other countries do not have a regular European page or a European section, such as does the Financial Times. People in television complain that they cannot find an alternative to dull talking heads in Brussels or just pictures of statesmen getting in and out of big cars. It is very difficult to visualise Europe, as much of the information is technical and legalistic.

By way of background, the Commission has been involved since about 1989 with the so-called directive on television without frontiers but that has been aimed more at trying to make sure that the television systems across Europe will take in material coming from other European countries and it is not specifically about the Commission. The television channel Euronews is available in Ireland on cable systems but its viewership is not very high and many people will confess they just do not like watching it because it does not have a regular persona or a regular news anchor heading it up.

In terms of trying to regulate what the media do, I suppose the only sector of the media that might be open to this would be public service media in this country, RTE and TG4. However, we need to be very careful about requiring and regulating public service television and radio to spend more time on Europe. I spent some time working in RTE and I know the pressures coming from politicians who say we should have more coverage of national politics. However, broadcasters will say that in reality nobody will watch this kind of communication and certainly not during prime time hours.

I thank Professor Corcoran. We will try to condense the questions as Professor Corcoran is under some time pressure.

I thank Professor Corcoran for his presentation as it is very interesting and so much of it resonates with our own experience. It seems there is a yawn factor that applies to EU news. The national media do not seem that interested in covering EU issues and therefore the public is given very little exposure to the meat of what goes on within the various European institutions and at a European political level. The challenge is to try and make EU affairs or EU politics more interesting.

I agree with Professor Corcoran that what is missing is the personal dimension. What people find interesting about Irish politics is the personalities and the differences of opinion, the conflict, the clash between different ideologies and the competition. This just does not come through from European institutions. Part of the reason is that most people are not familiar with the politicians or the key figures in Europe. Most people could probably name their own Commissioner but would not be aware of the identities of most of the other Commissioners or what sort of political or ideological outlook they bring with them. We need to find a way of making the key figures in Europe much more accessible and give a clearer picture of their personalities and ideologies to the public.

Professor Corcoran referred to the Commission and the information it generates for journalists. It is clear that it needs to improve its PR as it seems to provide technical information, in the main, to journalists that is not newsworthy and which journalists find hard to sell to their editors. The Commission may need to improve its PR to make the Commission more accessible and attractive to the lay person.

It is said that it is more difficult to explain issues in the tabloid media as it seems like a lower level and less challenging than having to write something for The Irish Times or the Financial Times. However, dumbing-down a message slightly or making it more user-friendly is actually a skill in itself so perhaps the Commission needs to focus on that kind of communication.

Professor Corcoran also referred to the lobbying presence in Brussels. I was not aware that the lobbying presence is larger in Brussels than in Washington DC. It is strange the media have not focused on this because people do have an interest in who the key lobbyists are, what they are lobbying for and what their relationship is with the Commission.

Professor Corcoran has stated that while solutions are needed, there are no clear ones. Would a public service obligation with a clear remit on public service broadcasters and incentives for commercial media in covering European affairs work? Is the Internet used enough to cover European affairs? While there are websites for the various European institutions, are there more informal ways of using the web such as Youtube and blogs?

Professor Corcoran referred to the European Commission moving towards a localisation strategy to try to make issues relevant to each member state's interests. There is also the issue of globalisation. Many of the issues to which the European Union is responding are global issues and challenges. Can what is happening at global level be made more accessible to the European public? For example, can EU relations with the emerging powers of Russia, China and India and east-west relations be made more relevant from an EU perspective to viewers and readers?

Professor Farrel Corcoran

Let me start with the last question. I was thinking of a conversation at a previous meeting of the sub-committee. The lack of historical awareness in Ireland is a severe limitation on people's ability to relate to even international conflicts which one would think should have some news value. There are ways to address it. There is a constant feeling, not just in commercial but also public service media, that they would like to have more global and European issues to the fore but the audiences might switch off or to another channel. In a way, we are a victim of so much competition between media. In the days when we had just two television channels and a much smaller market for the media, covering European and global issues was much more possible. Now, it is not so easy with the intense competition and the large range of possibilities for viewers.

The Commission is becoming more aware of some of its media shortcomings through listening to communications experts who are interpreting what journalists are saying. There is a large mismatch between the Commission's professional spokespersons dealing with the press and what the press wants. This comes down to simple matters such as having no instinct as to what is newsworthy when a newsperson has it. There is also a lack of understanding of the importance of deadlines to news media or the effect of not returning a journalist's telephone call for three days. The Commission is beginning to think about improving its act at that level.

We need to look at the future use of the Internet, if only because of the phenomenon of the new Internet US President who will take office in Washington in January. He has an e-mail list of 10 million active supporters who are electronically keyed into his policies. The use of the Internet by Irish political parties is minimal. We are gearing up for another research project to examine the use of the Internet in the forthcoming European Parliament elections. I suspect we will find the use of YouTube, blogging, Facebook and so forth which turned on the American electorate will be low. Yes, there is huge room for improvement there. Some of these things could be linked to television systems. Many good broadcasters — BBC is one, and RTE is moving in this direction as well — are offering not just straight old-fashioned television but links to more information on a website and the possibility of speaking about issues through blogging, discussion groups and so on.

I welcome Professor Corcoran.

I am very interested in the education issue. However, there is one point I want to make first about something I always found extremely off-putting when Europe was being discussed, which is Euro-speak. One would hear officials from Europe getting worked up about intergovernmental conferences and the principle of subsidiarity. After six or seven weeks sitting here it is fine for us because we are hearing about it day in day out. However, it is easy to lose touch with the mass audience and this is why people are completely uninterested. They switch off and they do not understand what is going on. There is a lack of understanding of the institutions. They are absolutely bored to death. One loses people very quickly and it is hard to win them back. I have been pleasantly surprised in recent weeks that most of the speakers who have come before the committee have not done this. It is the first time in my consideration of European affairs that this has been the case. It was always a bit of a horror story.

With regard to the attention given to European affairs by RTE, we all know one has to sit up after "Oireachtas Report" if one wants to hear what went on in the EU on a particular day. Nobody will do that. It is not attractive. Professor Corcoran has made the point about why that is so. We had a couple of journalists here who were out in Europe and they told us that they got many of their stories in the bars of Brussels, in the same way as journalists here get stories from the Dáil bar. It is all very exciting here in Ireland, as my colleague Senator de Búrca mentioned, when one knows the personalities involved. One gets the local scoop. The scoop in Brussels is very interesting, I am sure, to all those who are out there, but trying to get that out to the wider audience who do not know the personalities involved is a different matter. One loses the audience.

For me the key, as mentioned in the last session by Mr. Halligan, is teaching in schools. We have to start at that level to build up interest and understanding so that when people get to the stage of being genuinely interested in European affairs, at least they will have the basic knowledge to enable them to take it all on board, and perhaps we will not have the same problems we had in trying to communicate Lisbon.

Professor Farrel Corcoran

Something could also be done in terms of bringing positive pressure, rather than negative, on the editorial side of the media. There are two steps — from journalists to their editorial desks and then to the public. This is where much of the problem lies. How exactly we can do that I do not know, but it needs attention.

I welcome Professor Corcoran. It is good to see him again.

The scenario presented by Professor Corcoran in terms of communicating Europe is daunting. We all know it is an extremely difficult thing to do. Ironically, what has been happening since the Lisbon treaty, with Declan Ganley and the Czech President and so on, has probably communicated more about Europe than has been communicated in the past ten years. That will die down, however. It is not about the substance of Europe but about certain elements of drama, so it falls into a different category. However, that being said, information presented to us by Professor Richard Sinnott earlier about behaviour and attitudes indicated that we were well down the scale among other European countries in terms of knowledge about the substance of Europe, its institutions and so on. Has there been any comparison with how other countries communicate the message to their citizens? They seem to be doing it a little better.

What was asserted at the last session by Mr. Halligan was that there was more of a comprehension deficit than an information deficit. I am not inclined to agree with that. I am inclined to think there is both an information deficit and a comprehension deficit, but certainly the information is not coming through. How could it come through? Professor Corcoran is involved with RTE, which is pretty scandalous in the manner in which it provides information on the national Parliament, let alone the European Union. You have to wait until 1 a.m. to get "Oireachtas Report". This is outrageous. You have to wait until about midnight to get anything on the European Union and it is always presented in a staid fashion. The only decent thing I saw was a recent programme by Seán Whelan which had a catwalk which sexed it up with a bit of drama. I had never seen this before in the presentation of politics. RTE has been disgraceful in the manner in which it has presented politics.

The Irish Times is the only paper which does a comprehensive job, but then The Irish Times is fairly highbrow and that is a limited audience. You need time to get into the political pages, but it does a lot about domestic politics and about Europe. The tabloids and the British newspapers, particularly the British eurosceptic newspapers here, have no interest unless to poke fun at Europe. It is much easier to downgrade or criticise the European Union in the media than to look at the positive aspects. We are getting very poor quality information from both our national broadcaster and from the private producers of information.

Have you any idea what we might do as a Parliament? We have a European affairs committee, a European scrutiny committee and there is a National Forum on Europe. These are committees which do very substantial work in relation to Europe. The majority of legislation dealt with comes originally from Europe. The European dimension is very important. How can we as a national Parliament better project the work we do in the area of the European Union? We have not been very successful to date.

Professor Farrel Corcoran

I do not have any quick solutions, except to say that help may be available in the way the technology of communication is changing. I will not defend against what has been said about RTE. I would agree with much of it. You must understand the pressures on media like RTE and more fully commercial media to avoid, as they see it, programming that will send their budget line shooting downwards in an environment where their financial position has to be protected. That is always an important factor. Despite the best intentions of editors, you hear it all the time. That will ease a little as we get into the era of digital television, which is coming very soon. A channel like RTE will have available to it a number of other options.

Rather than thinking of the public as an undifferentiated mass, we have to see it as segmented. There are some people who are very interested in politics and policy making. They may be a minority, but they need to be served. They will be served by the facilities available through digital television and currently on the Internet. Many other people will not be interested. Parts of civil society will be organised into small groups which work very hard on particular parts of policy making, such as the environment, global warming and many other areas. These too must be served in a properly democratic system. They cannot expect to be given the information they want through a mass medium at prime time. That will not work, but the technology exists and is slowly being put in place whereby more specialised media will be available. This time next year we will have digital terrestrial television, something we could and should have had ten years ago. This will be a very cheap system available to everyone in the country at no subscription. We should have it next September. Two or three years after that the old system will be completely closed down. That is a hopeful development which will open up more ways of communication.

Regarding the study of public opinion, we have to be very careful in deciding whether there is an information deficit or a comprehension deficit. One needs to read very carefully how a piece of research is done. One piece of research which has been much quoted in the media was conducted following the constitutional crisis in June on the question of why the Irish voted against the treaty. The fine print indicates that the researchers asked only one question, "Why did you vote against Lisbon?" That is not a great way to conduct research, yet this is the stuff which was churned out across the media, rather than the more finely tuned research that the issue deserves. We have to look carefully at how research is done before we can make up our minds as to whether there is an information deficit or a comprehension deficit.

Thank you, Professor Corcoran. I think the deficit is in terms of the content. The technology is available for delivering the news. I agree that it is difficult to fit European news within the local news remit. It is a crowded space and there is only a certain window where people are interested in politics and they will go for the local and national more than the European and international.

I was reminded recently of an RTE programme called "Murphy's America". Mike Murphy sought to educate the Irish public about America. It was not just about the political system but it gave a flavour of what society is like there. We could start to build a knowledge of Europe through colour, drama documentaries and a whole series of subjects that would not necessarily focus on what is happening in Brussels. If people had a better base level understanding of what Europe is, was and where it has come from, they would be more open to engaging in current issues. Almost from embarrassment, people often do not want to participate in discussion because they do not have a basic level of knowledge. They blank it out.

Not long ago RTE produced a programme on horse racing, an area of interest to some but not to others. It actually gave some people an interest in the subject. That type of approach, a documentary in the setting of a drama, markets a product and has the capacity to educate people who are interested in learning more but would not otherwise take that step.

Professor Farrel Corcoran

You are absolutely right. In a mass medium like television, we need to present much more knowledge through the visual on what is going on in other countries. There is a cheap way to do this. A public service broadcaster can use the resources of the European Broadcasting Union to achieve a sharing of information. Politicians might consider the debate on the television without frontiers directive which has been in place since 1989 and is constantly under attack. It answers precisely the need to which you refer.

Thank you, Professor Corcoran. I apologise again for the delay in the schedule and thank you for bearing with us.

The sub-committee went into private session at 5.33 p.m. and adjourned at 5.35 p.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 19 November 2008.
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