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JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN AFFAIRS debate -
Tuesday, 30 Jun 2009

Swedish EU Presidency: Discussion with Swedish Ambassador.

I welcome the Ambassador of Sweden to Ireland, Mr. Claes Ljungdahl, who will brief us on the Swedish priorities for the Presidency of the European Union. Before we begin, I draw attention to the fact that members of this committee have absolute privilege but the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before it. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

This is an important time in the evolution of the European Union. Over the past year and a half or so, many questions have been raised, in particular, about the Lisbon treaty. We have yet to answer some of those questions. Questions were also raised regarding the degree to which the European Union is committed to the original vision of the founding fathers of Europe. All of those issues arise at a very crucial time for the Swedish Presidency to be able to give them the necessary impetus. We look forward to that and will offer what support we can. I now call on Mr. Ljungdahl to make his presentation.

H.E. Mr. Claes Ljungdahl

Thank you very much Chairman and members of the committee for allowing me to present the Swedish priorities for the upcoming Presidency which begins tomorrow. I have no specific function today other than as the representative of Sweden in Ireland. As of tomorrow I will be representing the Presidency.

The last time I was here I had with me a colleague from France and one from the Czech Republic. That was a year and a half ago when we presented the 18-month programme. What I intend to do now is present the six-month programme for the half year during which Sweden will preside over the European Union. As the Chairman has already said, the European Union is going through a crucial period. Our Presidency will be characterised by challenge, and Sweden is ready to take on that challenge.

Our vision is of a strong and effective Europe where focus is on the common responsibility to meet the challenges of today and tomorrow. Our ambition is to conduct an open, responsive and result-oriented Presidency. The coming six months will be characterised by change and renewal. We have a newly elected European Parliament that will begin its work in a fortnight, and a new Commission will be appointed. The conditions for co-operation will change if the Lisbon treaty enters into force as we hope it will. In this regard Ireland has an important role to play now that it has received its guarantees. We hope for a positive result in the upcoming referendum.

The main priorities and the most important challenges for the Swedish Presidency are, for today, the economy and employment and, for tomorrow, climate. These are issues that affect each and every one of the citizens of Europe and are, therefore, of great importance. It is difficult to state the order of the priorities but, since it is the economy that prevails in political life, I will start with that. It is our ambition that the EU will emerge from the present economic and financial crisis in a stronger position than before. The previous French and Czech Presidencies have put the issue prominently on the agenda. We intend to follow up on agreed measures and are prepared to take new initiatives, if needed. A common capacity for action in the financial and economic fields and in the labour market is necessary if the EU is to meet the crisis in an effective manner. We will jointly continue to work to counter the negative impact of the crisis on growth and jobs with the aim of realising economic recovery as soon as possible.

Climate is another very important issue and we hope the EU will be ambitious and continue to take full responsibility for the threat in this regard by pursuing global climate efforts. Continued work is needed within the EU — one or two envelopes are still open — and together with other parties it must work hard to achieve the adoption of a new climate agreement during the international climate negotiations due to take place in Copenhagen in December.

Taking on these huge tasks involves an ambitious agenda for the EU but it also gives it an opportunity to strengthen its competitiveness, create new jobs and contribute to a better environment. Our ambition is to develop co-operation between different policy areas so that positive economic growth can be combined with a reduced burden on the environment and climate.

I mentioned two priorities but we also face other challenges. The EU must continue to develop towards a more secure, yet open, Europe where the rights of individuals are safeguarded. Our ambition is to adopt a new strategic work plan for the entire area of justice and home affairs. The Stockholm programme will cover areas such as policing, border and customs issues, legal matters, asylum, migration and visa policies. We will also develop regional co-operation in the EU; a Nordic focus is logical for us and we seek to develop the Baltic Sea states as a pilot area through a Baltic Sea strategy. The aim of the strategy is to contribute to a cleaner Baltic Sea and to make the region more economically dynamic.

We will work to strengthen the EU's role as a global actor with a coherent agenda for peace, development, democracy and human rights. We are prepared to manage unforeseen crises as they tend to arise in all Presidencies. The continued enlargement process is of central strategic importance. We will further develop the European neighbourhood policy and put special emphasis on the implementation of the eastern partnership. We will promote free trade and openness as means of fostering growth, employment and development and strive to see the Doha Round negotiations resumed and concluded successfully. We are planning for important summits with partners such as Brazil, China, India, Russia, South Africa, Ukraine and the United States.

I have intentionally been brief so I can answer questions. This brief run through the issues and priorities shows that the Swedish Presidency is characterised by challenge. Sweden will take on the challenge but it cannot do it alone; it needs the support of the rest of Europe, including Ireland. I listened to what the Chairman stated at the outset. With such support we all will have the pleasure of saying at the end of the Presidency that Europe has succeeded. We will probably need some luck as well but I am sure that the golf legend Gary Player is right in saying that the harder he works the luckier he gets. We must take this advice and work harder together.

I will conclude with a further analogy from Gaelic sports. Tomorrow will be the throw-in for the championship, a match that promises to be very exciting. Sweden is seated looking forward to that match.

I see the ambassador takes a healthy interest in the local sporting activities. That is good diplomacy.

I welcome the ambassador and thank him for coming. We look forward to the Swedish Presidency. I was in Stockholm just a month ago with a group taking us through the policy on commerce. One of my first points is to remind him of the importance of commerce. I use the word "commerce" as against "industry". A large number of people believe that jobs will be created in industry but all the evidence is that if we are to solve the economic problems, a large number of jobs will be created in commerce, that is, retail, wholesale and international trade. There is a fear that commerce has not got due priority among presidencies in the past and that often the concentration has been on industry. I urge that commerce be kept as a high priority.

Sweden has a great record on the economy. Sweden hit a serious banking problem eight or nine years ago, and solved it in a manner which we have come to admire. Perhaps the ambassador could give some idea of whether he sees a move during the Swedish Presidency towards a European financial regulation as against each country having its own independent financial regulation. That is quite important.

The climate conference in Copenhagen in December on which the ambassador touched will be a high priority for the Swedish Presidency. The danger is that as we in Europe take steps to control problems of climate change here, we may endanger the Third World and the steps we take may create big problems for those far less well-off than we in Europe are. I refer particularly to Africa and southern Asia. Could the ambassador give some idea of how the Swedish Presidency will achieve that balance of ensuring that while European citizens are looked after on climate change, at the same time as we take into account that almost every step we take to protect Europe will endanger trade, especially with those who are less well-off in the Third World?

I thank the ambassador for this submission and wish him and his country well in taking over the Presidency.

Taking from the last point Senator Quinn mentioned, the less well-off and the vulnerable, with the emphasis on economic issues and the contraction of the economies, I am concerned that countries are not meeting their development aid targets. I ask the ambassador to emphasise that to the Swedish Presidency at the development aid Ministers Council meetings to sustain the pressure to meet targets. It seems the easy option is to cut back in that area.

On the Swedish experience on the financial difficulties, I ask the ambassador to give us a view on where Europe is going on the adoption of the de Larosière report and whether he feels the Swedish experience is applicable to the difficulties being experienced in Europe, especially in Ireland. I hear continuous reference to what happened in Sweden and how the problem was solved. Is it applicable to the current crisis to which Ireland is seeking to reach a solution or was it a template that worked well for Sweden at that time and in those circumstances? Has Sweden decided to adopt a policy on the role it might take in the second Lisbon treaty referendum? Does it believe it should stand back and leave it to Ireland to decide? Does the Swedish Presidency see itself as having a role in explaining the treaty?

The ambassador also said one of Sweden's aims was continued progress in Turkey's accession negotiations. How important is Turkish accession to the European Union? Does the ambassador see any difficulties in that regard?

I welcome the Swedish ambassador. I am delighted to hear about the priorities of the Swedish Presidency, which are quite ambitious in respect of the economy, employment and climate change. I notice that the Presidency intends to provide for an alternative to the Lisbon strategy. That is welcome, as we have not lived up to the aims of the strategy, which were to make the European Union the most competitive and informed economy in the world with the best research and education. The strategy needs to be addressed afresh because we have fallen down considerably in that regard. Most economies in Europe are in recession, which is the opposite of what the Lisbon strategy aimed for.

We seem to be spending a lot of time getting the banking system back to stability and introducing financial regulation. I echo the suggestion of Senator Quinn of greater European Union involvement in financial regulation in every member state. The Cinderella of the troika of which banking and regulation are two members is employment which seems to have been given short shrift by the European Union in recent months. The best we could manage was an informal meeting in Prague under the Czech Presidency, but there was no summit, nor a serious co-ordinated attempt to address the huge decline in employment in the Union. Would the Swedish Presidency consider holding a formal summit of member states to ensure employment becomes the focus of economic strategy?

The ambassador said the Presidency would address the Copenhagen agreement on climate change and much work would have to be done to replace the Kyoto Protocol targets. Yesterday it was announced that there had been a 1.9% increase in emissions in Ireland, despite the recession. I thought our figures would have reduced by some 10% because of the huge drop in transport, trade and energy use, but we are not moving forward. If these figures are replicated in other European countries, the 20% target and the forward target of 30% will be difficult to attain. What ideas does the Swedish Presidency have on sustainable energy?

The Stockholm programme is very welcome. From an Irish perspective, we always have been frustrated that in the area of justice and home affairs an island nation like ours appears to have no protection from the importation of drugs, in particular, and criminality. Criminality appears to have acquired a cross-border character and in many ways mainland Europe constitutes a launching pad. Greater co-operation is required in that respect. I seek the ambassador's comments in that regard.

I refer to the European neighbourhood and eastern partnerships and the fact that the Swedish Presidency will propose new agreements in this regard. The joint committee has been discussing trade agreements in the context of events in the Middle East. Has the Swedish Presidency thought about addressing this issue? Members have spent much time questioning human rights violations in the context of trade agreements and whether anything more than lip service is paid to the upholding of human rights, democracy and good governance in such agreements. How does the Swedish Presidency intend to strengthen such rights in the new agreements, particularly in the area in which they perhaps are most greatly abused, namely, the Middle East? This has been seen in recent years in the invasion of Gaza. I ask the ambassador to address these issues.

I welcome the ambassador before the joint committee and also the forthcoming Swedish Presidency about which there is a sense of positive anticipation. Obviously, each Presidency of the European Union differs as the member state concerned brings with it its own particular strengths and experience. In the case of Sweden, its highly progressive track record in addressing climate change, environmental protection and sustainable development is very welcome.

I welcome the ambassador's indication that one priority of the Swedish Presidency will be the revision of the Lisbon strategy. It is the case that Sweden takes over the Presidency at a time when the economic and financial landscape of Europe and globally has been completely and fundamentally transformed. Were we beginning the process of putting together the contents of the Lisbon treaty in the light of recent developments, I wonder what new or different elements would be contained therein. Certainly, however, the Lisbon strategy requires revision. I hope and, from the documentation I have read, believe the Swedish Presidency's priorities include the issues of climate change, energy security and economic recovery.

Although these three themes and policy areas are inextricably bound together, I will begin with the issue of climate change. While it has been mentioned by other speakers, there is much concern that the European Union made a commitment to unilateral cuts in emissions of 20% in the Copenhagen discussions last December, which figure will rise to 30%, were other international powers to agree to raise their respective bars. Unfortunately, much of the emerging scientific evidence suggests setting a target of cuts in emissions of 40% would be much more appropriate than one of 30%. Consequently, it is to be hoped that with the Swedish Presidency guiding in the final stretch the negotiations for the Copenhagen conference, an agreement on cuts of 30%, rather than 20%, will be secured. If the latter figure is agreed on, all should be aware that it constitutes 50% of what should be agreed to. To date, the European Union has provided outstanding global leadership in this area and I hope we will go no lower than a reduction of 30% and will manage to bring the rest of international community with us. While I do not underestimate the challenge and acknowledge it will be difficult, I hope the Swedish Presidency can achieve this objective.

As for economic recovery and energy security, unfortunately, the economic recovery plans produced thus far by the European Union appear to be more a collection of national recovery plans than anything that is genuinely European-wide. It is for this reason that the European Green Party has called for a EU-wide stimulus package known as the "Green New Deal". Under this package, €500 billion would be made available from private and public sources to stimulate badly needed job creation initiatives across the European Union. Many of these initiatives will involve infrastructural projects such as a Europe-wide electricity grid and a widely discussed and extremely ambitious offshore wind project which would stretch from the North Sea to the Iberian Peninsula. Projects of this nature could stimulate job creation and assist the European Union in moving much more significantly in the direction of achieving energy security and, ultimately, energy independence.

It is to be hoped that the Swedish Presidency can make some strides in this direction. It appears the political will to consider a genuine Europe-wide response to a stimulus programme does not yet exist. I hope that during the six months of the Swedish presidency significant moves can be made.

There were references to the area of trade. Like other speakers, I wish to highlight some of the concerns that exist in respect of the EU's trade policy and some of the negotiations that are under way at present. The Swedish Presidency will probably be aware of many of the well-documented concerns regarding the economic partnership agreements being negotiated with the African Caribbean Pacific, ACP, countries. Although the EU claims to be committed to flexibility, to date it has refused to address all the contentious issues raised by these countries. There are many concerns in respect of the imbalances that will occur in regional economies if these individual bilateral trade agreements are signed with some countries and not with others. It is to be hoped that the European Union will revisit some of these issues and demonstrate much greater flexibility in respect of them.

There are also concerns regarding current trade negotiations with Colombia. Obviously Colombia's track record in the area of human rights violations is a matter of extreme concern. I hope this matter will be reconsidered and that the fast-track approach being taken in the context of completing the negotiations will be slowed. I also hope the issue of human rights violations and the potential impact of the free trade agreement on marginalised groups within Colombia might be subjected to closer scrutiny.

Another issue that has been repeatedly raised at meetings of this committee is the Euro-Mediterranean trade agreement, which includes the EU-Israel association agreement. I am concerned about the failure of the EU to implement the clause which deals with human rights violations in respect of Israel. It is the view of some members of the committee that the clause to which I refer in the EU-Israel association agreement was completely breached by Israel in the recent attack on Gaza and that the EU should suspend the agreement. As already stated, this is the view of only some members of the committee but the Swedish Presidency should give further consideration to the matter. Any proposal to upgrade the trade relationship between the EU and Israel should be halted until these matters are dealt with.

The final issue to which I wish to refer is that which relates to crime and justice. I welcome the fact that the Swedish presidency intends to prioritise this matter. However, while there is general concern among citizens that the EU requires much greater competence in dealing with matters such as cross-border criminality, human trafficking, drug trafficking and international terrorism, there is also a view that there must be a facility for much greater transparency and oversight in respect of what is being agreed in the area of crime and justice at European level. Perhaps Ambassador Ljungdahl might clarify for the committee the measures the Swedish presidency might propose to help citizen confidence in the process and greater parliamentary oversight in respect of what is being agreed at European level in this policy area.

I welcome Ambassador Ljungdahl who comes before the committee today to set out the agenda of the Swedish presidency. He stated that his country's presidency would be characterised by the challenges and its intention to face those challenges. Hardly any other country which has taken on the presidency has been obliged to face the challenges the Swedish Presidency will face. Based on Sweden's considerable experience and its capacity to take on the challenge, I have no doubt it will be successful.

While Sweden has set out an ambitious agenda and while reference has been made to the various policy issues affecting the Union at present, as the ambassador stated, the focus be on bringing some stability to the European economy. If this is to be achieved by regulation of the banking sector, we must look wider than European regulation to a more holistic approach across the globe. Our biggest trading block is the United States which we must recognise has suffered because of the regulatory regime. Co-operation at that level will be necessary to ensure we will never find ourselves in the situation with which we are grappling. Solutions will only be found when problems are identified. There are still problems lurking in our financial systems.

The ambassador referred to the need to set a new agenda in moving forward from the Lisbon Agenda which sought to build upon foundations in place for many years, particularly in creating further jobs and encouraging growth. However, the foundations have been completely destroyed. We are in a recession and see significant job losses, particularly in Ireland but also in other member states — the problem in some is more acute than in others. Job protection is a vital component of any strategy that will emerge. The Swedish Presidency will be characterised by its capacity to engage in a firefighting exercise, while developing a strategy for a resolution of problems. Notwithstanding this, the loss of jobs and reduction in living standards may reach such a crisis point that there will be a necessity to take the firefighting approach rather than developing a long-term strategy.

The Swedish Presidency will identify ways to increase the competitiveness of the European Union. We ceded this some time ago when we accepted that much of our manufacturing base was being transferred to Asian countries and that this was good if we could built upon it and allow our economies to capitalise. However, we must reassess that thinking. Our capacity to reduce costs and become more competitive can open up routes to jobs of which we had lost sight. The ambassador has identified this through his clear understanding and considerable experience in the area of addressing climate change. He recognises that there is significant potential for job creation in that regard, something the Government is embracing. Energy security was mentioned by others and it is an important issue. Perhaps it is not identifiable here but other member states have had considerable issues with which to deal in this regard.

I have confidence in the capacity of the ambassador to deal with the two most important issues, namely, job protection and economic stability. I refer to the capacity to deal with economic stability beneath the surface by examining the financial regulatory regime and working to bring about consensus, with the capacity to identity job retention, protection and creation.

I endorse the welcome extended to His Excellency Mr. Claes Ljungdahl and wish the Swedish Presidency every success. We have the utmost confidence in it to lead the European Union with aggression and distinction. We admire the singular and solid attitude and performance of Sweden, a country that has come through various crises during the years and found the way forward. We never had a greater demand or opportunity for the Swedish Presidency to assert the EU position globally. Under the Swedish Presidency, we are hoping progress can be made in that area.

We are pleased that Sweden will take new initiatives in the employment and economic area. The Lisbon Agenda needs to be revisited and we have looked at it for a long time, although it has not really had the impact that it was originally designed to achieve vis-à-vis economic stimulation and job creation both in enhancing jobs and sustaining and protecting them. This is a very important time and I hope we can make progress in that area. It is also very important to look at the labour market. We are a competitive Union and the member states are competitive within the Union. We should get rid of any agreements, impediments, or latent or other types of difficulty which are preventing the stimulation of economic growth across the Union.

The witness spoke about regional co-operation and perhaps he might expand on it, as we would be very interested in it. Was he speaking from a geographical, sectoral or financial perspective? In these islands there is a long tradition of co-operation, although it has only developed over the years to a much more positive and progressive effort between the UK, Northern Ireland the Republic of Ireland. That type of regional co-operation would be beneficial to the Union, because if the region is strong it will ensure that the Union itself is strong.

I endorse what colleagues have said in that it is critical for the Union to be proactive in resolving the banking crisis. There is an opportunity for the Union to lead the globe in this respect. We have vast resources within the Union from a liquidity and human resource point of view. We have a powerful Single Market with 500 million people within it. Using all of those resources, it should be possible to ensure we emerge from the current crisis.

I hope we are making some progress from both a European and global perspective so that we can drive forward and accelerate the capacity of the Union to deliver to its citizens and produce economic growth in a more sustained way. It is critical that we have clear regulation to ensure we never get into this serious mess again.

What are Sweden's priorities in the enlargement process? We salute the attitude to eastern partnership and the European neighbourhood policy, which is critical to the Union and its borders. The summits being arranged are very important and it is critical for the Union to partner with Russia, particularly from an energy perspective. In a peaceful global context, a strong partnership between the European Union and Russia underpins global peace and progress across the greater world. The Union is a much stronger place with a much more effective operation when in partnership with Russia. In utilising the resources of the Ukraine in partnership with Europe, it is possible to sustain our energy requirements as we go forward at a critical time.

It is also important that we have a strong partnership with the United States of America and that the Swedish Presidency takes the opportunity to try to bring some progress to the serious question in the Middle East, which constantly bedevils the region and the wider world. We are in good hands under the Swedish Presidency and I wish the ambassador, his Government and all the people involved in the Presidency every success. I thank him for today's presentation.

As my colleagues have done, I welcome the ambassador before the committee and I wish Sweden the best of luck in its Presidency, which comes at a very important time for our country. The work that Sweden does in leading Europe will set the backdrop for the approaching second referendum on the Lisbon treaty. It is important for those of us campaigning for a "Yes" vote in the referendum to see a successful political leadership in Europe across that period.

I have three questions for the ambassador in that regard. What would happen if Iceland lodged an application to join the European Union, as it may this summer? What would be the response, although I suspect I know the answer? What would Sweden do and how could it fast-track that application through to membership, if the Icelandic Parliament decided that is what it wants to do?

My second question relates to the briefing document the ambassador shared with us. Like Deputy Costello, I am struck that the focus on employment does not appear to have the same concrete detail as do the proposals on the financial system, and banking regulation in particular. The document simply states that Europe will return people to work. How will it do that?

My third question relates to issues that have been debated within the Seanad recently, namely, child pornography and human trafficking, on which issues I understand there are framework decisions due in the period in which Sweden will hold the European Union Presidency. What will the Swedish Presidency do to ensure that successful decisions are made in these areas and implemented by the end of the year?

I thank the ambassador for coming here today and wish his Government well in its presidency. On the aim of the Swedish Presidency to focus on education and training, Ireland's economy very much benefitted from European investment in education and training, especially through the European Social Fund which funded students to go to college for free in institutes of technology for many years before we introduced free third level education. Does the Swedish Government plan to use the Presidency to develop such investment in education in countries such as Ireland over the next couple of years?

When Sweden experienced economic downturn, did the Swedish Government invest in education to help get out of it and what education policies has it now, particularly at third level? In Ireland there is talk of moves to reintroduce third level fees. What is the Swedish view on that type of approach to education?

On the Middle East, Deputy de Búrca raised the issue of the EU trade agreement. What does the Swedish Government hope to do regarding the European Union contribution to the Israel and Palestine peace process, if one takes off?

Our Government has not taken the approach of fiscal stimulus on the economy, but it is obviously an approach that has been taken by some countries in the European Union and also by the United States. What is the Swedish view? Here the agenda is based around cuts and efficiency, whereas other Governments are borrowing money instead, if necessary, to invest in capital projects such as school buildings. What is the Swedish approach to the economy in that regard?

If the ambassador had not had plenty of inspiration and leadership ideas beforehand, he certainly has more of them now. I emphasise the importance of some of the points raised. First, the position on employment is hugely important within the European Union, especially since it has never yet achieved any kind of equality of status with the United States in terms of the cohesive economic process whereby maximum advantage is taken of the economies of scale from a larger market.

The other point is that we must answer for ourselves, as I stated at the beginning. It is a suitable time to redefine and reassert the thinking of the European people as to where and how fast we want to go. Ireland failed to grapple with that question in the Lisbon treaty referendum. We are getting another chance but are lucky in that regard. If the ambassador consulted people on the street, he would find that everybody was committed to remaining in the European Union. The critical question is what place in the European Union each country wants to have in the future. One can be in the driving seat or on the running board, but one is much more effective in the former and Ireland has benefited greatly from membership of the Union by being at its decision-making centre. It is hugely important that the institutions of the Union recognise that any splintering of the European vision, any movement away from the cohesiveness and objectivity that have been its features for the past 50 years, would bring about ultimate failure.

I emphasise the necessity of catering for the manufacturing sector in the European Union. At a time when the carbon footprint is becoming more important we should not rely on imports over huge distances to supply our food needs. We have a huge population of almost 500 million people and it is hugely important that we maintain self-sufficiency and continuity of supply.

H.E. Mr. Claes Ljungdahl

I thank members for their interesting and appropriate, if difficult, questions. If I do not answer all of them, I ask members to remind me.

Senator Quinn suggested commerce should be on an equal footing with manufacturing. Sweden agrees that services are becoming more and more important and that commerce is a very important aspect of the Lisbon Agenda in sustaining growth and development in Europe.

Many members asked about creating jobs. As our Prime Minister said, that is a very important issue and something to which the Swedish Government committed when it won the election three years ago. It is important to get people who live on subsidies from the state back to work. There are, however, certain limitations to what the European Union can do in this regard. There needs to be a combined effort on the part of the Union and individual member states. Sweden will be the chair of the European Union and try to be transparent and helpful to all member states. However, member states need to be on board and work together to achieve the ambitious aims which we have set. The Union will be much more effective with a new treaty in this regard; therefore, one must not rely too much on the Presidency. There needs to be a bottom-up, rather than a top-down, approach. We are not dictators.

Has the ambassador anyone in mind?

H.E. Mr. Claes Ljungdahl

No. We will certainly be very responsive to the wishes of the respective member state Governments, and will listen to what arises from the European Parliament and other important circles in this context.

There were many questions. I might have missed quite a few, but I hope not. I did not take them exactly in the order in which they were posed.

Deputy Timmins raised the development aid target. We in Sweden keep our 1% of GNP provision for development aid. Others are having difficulties on this, but it is not for the European Union to decide on the level the individual member states should put into development aid. The Commission makes a significant contribution as well.

I do not know to what extent Sweden could be helpful in the second referendum on the Lisbon treaty. Obviously, we have taken our decision on the Lisbon treaty through a parliamentary decision, which is according to the democratic principles in Sweden. Some minor decisions will be taken by the Parliament as a follow-up. This relates to the internal organisation of the Swedish Parliament following the Lisbon treaty and these decisions are scheduled to be taken in the beginning of October.

My authorities are disposed to help, but it is not up to us to decide. It is difficult for us to judge whether a visit from one person or another would be helpful. We rely very much on the judgment from Ireland.

On the Turkey accession, we believe that further steps in the accession process are important for the development and credibility of a democratic government in Turkey. If this option of joining the Union disappeared, there would be great fear of quite a backlash in the Turkish community. We are talking about a huge population and they are probably better inside than outside. That is a simple question. We know developments there are also very much dependent on certain other activities. I refer to my colleague from Cyprus. There are negotiations on that island. Obviously, that needs to be finalised. It is blocking the accession as such.

While on accession, I jump to Senator Donohoe's question on Iceland. We believe Iceland will submit an application relatively soon and we would not say "No" to fast-track procedures, but there are procedures for how to deal with these matters which would need the involvement of the Commission. Hopefully, this could be fast-tracked and we would be there in the end of this year. We do not expect to have Iceland as a member during the Swedish Presidency.

The ambassador does not expect that, is it?

H.E. Mr. Claes Ljungdahl

Not that quickly. It takes time on negotiations. There are a couple of chapters that must be gone through and must be negotiated, and one cannot conduct such negotiations at speed. However, we would be positive about the matter if this application came.

There are other countries in the pipeline. We realise that there are difficulties with the Croatian accession. There is a dispute which must be mediated between one member state and that application state, and we do not necessarily expect that to be done during the Presidency.

Some members asked questions which were not related to the EU but to the Swedish banking system and the experiences we had in the crisis of the early 1990s. We managed to solve the crisis and to get our money back over a period. It was difficult in the beginning and we had to nationalise one or two banks but they were privatised again later. However, I am not an expert on that issue. One of the other Oireachtas joint committees will meet the head of our national debt authority during his visit to Ireland on 7 July. He was the Minister for Financial Markets in the 1990s and will be able to discuss the matter further. He will also visit the Institute of International and European Affairs if members want to seek his advice.

All crises are different and ours was quite different to Ireland's. It is open to question whether the Swedish model can be used for Ireland's crisis. The circumstances were different but it is possible that Ireland can draw on one or two of our experiences in solving the problem. Our crisis was isolated within Sweden and the Nordic countries but we are currently in the midst of global financial sector turmoil.

The Swedish Presidency has an ambitious agenda for the financial sector. We want to restore confidence in the financial markets and to combat the negative impact of the crisis on employment. We aim to reach an agreement on new rules and to strengthen supervisory bodies. We will work hard to arrive at a common position for a new supervisory structure, which will include the establishment of a European body to supervise stability in the financial system. The structure will also include a European system for financial supervision on a micro level. Exactly how this will look will depend on the negotiations among the appropriate bodies within the Union but a new structure is needed to restore confidence in financial markets. In this way we will not only resolve the financial crisis but will contribute to the economic revival of Europe as soon as is possible.

Deputy Costello and others touched on the Lisbon strategy. This is a follow-up to the strategy and we are looking to put the first elements in place but the decisions will be taken during the Spanish Presidency next spring. It is an important element in the economic recovery of Europe.

I am not the man to answer some of the more detailed questions. Senator de Búrca spoke of a higher ambition than a 20% cut in emissions. Sweden has a higher ambition than 20%. In the industrial world, obviously, it is a question of negotiations and what one comes up with at the very end. We must be ambitious to get the others on board. We do not really know how our partners would act, not least the United States of America. Even though we have seen positive signs from its side, we are convinced to strike a balance and find as highly ambitious a goal as possible, be it 25%, 40% or whatever. However, we know we must come to agreement within the European Union as well because we note everybody is not that ambitious. We will see where we arrive in the final outcome.

Deputy Dooley touched on some elements of the economy, the follow-up of the Lisbon treaty, on the importance of creating jobs and exactly how this is being done. This is a combination of measures from the European Union and nationally. We all have responsibility for that. That touches also on Deputy Treacy's question on the labour market.

On regional co-operation, the Baltic strategy, is a pilot project, which has a considerable environmental element. The Baltic Sea, being almost a lake, is one of the most polluted seas and significant measures are needed to clean it. Here is an opportunity for co-operation to do that and at the same time boost the economy around the rim of the Baltic Sea. Whether this would transpose into other co-operation I am not 100% sure. I note the positive developments between the UK, Ireland and Northern Ireland in this respect.

Russia's contribution to the energy market is important. It is the strategic partner. We expect to have tough and deep discussions for new treaty arrangements with the Russians. It is an important partner.

On the United States of America and the Middle East, I am sure that we will want co-operation with the Americans. We are not alone in that. The Swedish Minister for Foreign Affairs has high ambition to do something here. I cannot tell how exactly that will disperse into the free trade agreement with Israel because that is not really in my brief here. I will have to come to back to that, if the committee so wishes.

Deputy Tuffy raised educational matters. Education is a matter that was used to a great extent in building the Swedish economy. Obviously, the people who are out of work need training and they will get training. There are various arrangements for this. For example, as of today, we have some problems in exporting our investment products, not least trucks, for instance, but the staff are still in Scania producing trucks. The trucks are being produced for storage, but at the same time the workers are being educated on a programme financed partially by the state. How this would continue is an open question.

On the third level fees, in Sweden there is a loan system. University is free. If one wants to study, one can get a support subsidy and be provided with a loan, which is obviously repayable at an advantageous interest rate.

Does the loan relate to course fees?

H.E. Mr. Claes Ljungdahl

No, it relates to living fees; the courses are free.

I am sure I have forgotten many questions — I have already mentioned Iceland.

In terms of energy security dovetailing with climate change directives, the nord stream gas supply to Europe will go through the Baltic. There seems to be local dissent and I feel it would be to the benefit of the EU if Sweden could use its presidency to assist the nord stream as it is essential to Europe's energy security. It will also assist in the area of climate change as it involves burning a cleaner fuel than oil. I am conscious that Sweden has a long history of a fine social economy and can demonstrate best practice to Europe in this regard. I hope the Swedish Presidency will allow us to benefit from that country's experience in the current banking crisis.

I would like to go back to the question I asked on the sexual exploitation of children and child pornography. I appreciate this is a very specific point but we have discussed this a great deal in the Seanad recently and it appears that the solution lies in what Europe does to monitor and stop the trafficking of children across national borders. Significant progress could be made in the law in this regard by the end of this year. If the ambassador does not have an answer to my question on this point now I would appreciate it if he would reply to the committee at a later stage.

H.E. Mr. Claes Ljungdahl

The area of monitoring child pornography is part of the Stockholm programme; I will return to it at a later date because I do not have the details to hand.

Nord stream is a sensitive environmental issue and there are different aspects to it. The Senator mentioned it is good for the transportation of gas through a particular area but there is also an environmentally sensitive area close to the Swedish coastline. A survey is being conducted into the potential environmental impact and this will be the decisive factor in Sweden's handling of the issue.

Regarding the trafficking of children, as mentioned by Senator Paschal Donohoe, the committee met EUROPOL and EUROJUST since Ireland's rejection of the Lisbon treaty and the importance of ratifying the treaty was emphasised. This will help combat international crime, including the trafficking of people and drugs, money laundering and many other activities. It seems at the moment that many of these activities go on within the EU so there are good reasons they were covered in the Lisbon treaty. Some people have concerns about civil liberties in this regard and the answer lies in striking a balance by achieving the objectives without eroding the freedom of individuals. Unfortunately, the civil liberties of the law-abiding citizens of Europe have been undermined by ruthless people who have circumvented the system. On one occasion we were informed by EUROPOL or EUROJUST that it got a good deal of its information not from other governments but from the media. That is a sad state of affairs but I hope that issue will be addressed in the context of the Lisbon treaty. The Lisbon issue is one we have to fight. We have to prove to ourselves as a nation that we have the commitment, the vision and the solidarity to continue on the path on which we launched ourselves in 1973, and from which we have seen nothing but good. If we or other EU member states second guess the original visions of Europe that could have serious consequences.

The ambassador has been very good to us. We wish him well for the Presidency and have no doubt he will be able to carry out his duties with the usual flair and competence that epitomises the Swedish Administration. At the end of the Presidency I hope we will have some good news to offer our colleagues.

H.E. Mr. Claes Ljungdahl

Thank you very much.

The joint committee went into private session at 3.30 p.m. and adjourned at 4 p.m. until noon on Thursday, 9 July 2009.
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