JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN UNION AFFAIRS debate -
Thursday, 15 Sep 2011

Business of Joint Committee

Chairman

Apologies have been received from Senator Kathryn Reilly.

The first item on the agenda will be on the subject of the 18-month EU Presidency but I propose we deal first with the emergency motion, if members agree.

I will read the motion to ensure everyone is satisfied with it and I will then invite members to make brief statements.

The Joint Committee on European Union Affairs is dismayed at the recent remarks made by EU Energy Commissioner, Mr. Günther Oettinger, appearing to propose that the national flags of "deficit sinners" be flown at half mast as a symbol and deterrent. The joint committee believes it would be a powerful symbol but one of arrogance, ignorance and divisiveness that would not reflect the principles of the European Union.

The European Union is facing an historic challenge posed by the financial and economic crisis and the joint committee acknowledges the assistance provided to Ireland by the member states of the European Union in dealing with our current difficult situation. Ireland and its citizens have had to make sacrifices in order to set our country on course for recovery. In this respect, Ireland and its citizens have done everything that has been so far required, both in the interests of our own future and the future of the European Union as a whole. Ireland needs the European Union and the European Union needs Ireland. Ireland was ready to offer support to Greece when needed and is grateful for the support provided by our partners in the European Union, support offered in the spirit of solidarity between equal, sovereign nations engaged in a Union promoting common democratic goals.

The joint committee finds the Commissioner's remarks not just careless, irresponsible and inappropriate but also lacking in an understanding of the complexity of the economic realities and the seriousness of the difficulties faced by ordinary citizens in Ireland and across Europe.

A nation's national flag is a proud symbol of a country and its citizens and should be treated with respect. The joint committee calls on the Commissioner to withdraw his unacceptable remarks, to acknowledge that such remarks are damaging and to affirm that only in working together as friendly and respectful nations can Europe be restored and its future secured.

This motion is in the name of all the members of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on European Union Affairs. I will invite some brief remarks from members.

Deputy Joe O’Reilly

I formally second the motion. The initial remarks were gratuitously insulting and were wrong. They are an insult to the country and to our national flag. The most charitable explanation would be that the Commissioner suffered a rush of blood to the head. What he said is unacceptable. What should be recognised is that this country has made an exceptional effort to honour the terms of the EU-IMF deal and it has worked hard to achieve a joint approach with other countries in Europe to resolve the financial difficulties. It is the policy of this Government and of this Parliament that we work in a co-operative frame of mind and way with all the countries of Europe and the European Union, to bring about a rectification of the fiscal difficulties. This must be done through co-operation and mutual respect and by the honouring of agreed targets. This is the way we have been proceeding, with great success and to great effect.

It is worth mentioning in passing the much more important news of the past 48 hours, which was about the Commission's decision on interest rates, the recommendations from Mr. Barroso, and the previous interest rate reduction.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

Hear, hear.

Deputy Joe O’Reilly

The Commissioner's remark is out of sync with other European voices, opinions and positions, and it is unacceptable. The motion is timely and I congratulate the Chairman on it. It is succinct, it gets the point across well, and we should support it unanimously. There were indications yesterday that the Commissioner is backtracking from his original position, as he should, and saying that the remarks should not be attributed directly to him.

Chairman

There is a vote in the Seanad, so I will let the two Senators speak immediately.

Senator Terry Leyden

Thank you for the excellent motion, Chairman. It is well put together. I am delighted you have taken the initiative of issuing this statement by the committee. I regard it as a vote of no confidence in Commissioner Günther Oettinger. If that is conveyed to the Commission, I would support it. I am concerned that somebody with this type of mental state is in the Commission considering issues to do with this country and that he would actually request what he did. I go no further, but coming where I come from, many black flags would have been flown at half mast for the past 60 years. Thank you.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

I agree the statement was in poor taste. It was well spotted by you, Chairman, and you have provided great leadership by drafting the motion. You have my full support on it.

Chairman

Thank you, Senator.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

I thank the Chairman for drafting the motion on the committee's behalf. It is spot on. When I learned about the remarks, I did not believe them at first but thought it was some sort of joke. I then discovered that the comments had been reported online by the reputable newspaper Der Spiegel. I was shocked that somebody who holds a position as high as EU Commissioner could make such remarks, particularly in a context where it is widely known that the Irish people have endured extremely difficult austerity over the past number of years for what is a European problem - that is, the banking crisis at a European level and the poor regulatory framework that was in place. We are carrying that burden on behalf of all of Europe. To have our flag and our nation insulted by a Commissioner is shocking. There has to be an apology.

Deputy Seán Kyne

I concur with all that has been said. It is hard to believe that a European Commissioner could come out with such a heartless statement and fail to acknowledge the work Ireland has done and the austerity we have imposed to try to correct the situation. While we rightly blame our previous Governments for getting us where we are, we must also remember that the cheap money we had in Europe was based on the low interest rates that were designed to help Germany and France out of recession in the early days. That cheap money encouraged the lending and borrowing that Irish people had, and that fuelled the property bubble. Although it is obvious that mistakes were made at home by the previous Government, we must also acknowledge the EU's portion of the blame. I welcome the motion requesting that the Commissioner withdraw his remarks and issue an apology.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I congratulate the Chairman on his motion, which is well founded and much needed at this time. I would go further than my colleagues have gone in response to the Commissioner's remark. As someone mentioned, it was gratuitously insulting to our national flag and hence to our sovereignty, but it is also indicative of the thinking in certain quarters in the past couple of years.

When we campaigned for the Lisbon treaty - Lisbon 1 and Lisbon 2 - we explained to the people that it would bring Europe closer together and that there would be one voice in Europe, not a voice for one country or one Commissioner. At that time, we discussed the approach whereby each country would have a Commissioner. I happen to be one of the people who disagreed with that, as the Chairman probably remembers, because I felt the Commissioner should not represent his or her country. I believe that I and others who held that view were right. The Commissioners should represent not the countries from which they come, but the entire European Union.

It is appalling that a Commissioner should make such an utterance, whether as a joke or otherwise, because it is an insult to the nation and its people. It is an attempt by somebody to be cynical at a time when cynicism is not required or welcome. The Commissioner should resign or be fired. Anyone who seeks to drive a wedge between European countries at a time when cohesiveness is necessary and most desirable should be censured. It has been done before. To my mind, Commissioners have been fired for much less than that.

Europe needs the EU, the various leaders within it, and the Commission. The Commission is doing its best and I would compliment it on that, but it seems that Euroscepticism has taken over in the European Union and the objective is to drive people out of the Union, or out of the eurozone, by way of cynicism. My humble advice is that, if people wish to do that, they should state it publicly and we can have that debate, but we should let everybody know where we would be heading if that happened.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I welcome the opportunity to contribute. First, I compliment the Chairman on his initiative in dealing with the issue that has arisen in a categoric and non-partisan way.

It will be clear to any right-minded individual that the Commissioner has displayed a monumental lack of understanding of the financial crisis. His notion that, somehow, individual blame should be identified or cast upon member states that have issues - those he describes as deficit sinners - shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how we got into the situation we are in. In recent times, many more balanced commentators have reflected that there were fundamental flaws in the way the euro was created. That is not to suggest that individual countries have not had their own issues. We have accepted responsibility for that as a nation. However, there was a root cause here, which the Commissioner unfortunately seems to have fundamentally misunderstood. For that reason alone, he should be withdrawn by his country. He should be recalled and dispensed with. There is no place in the European Commission for someone who seeks to use such naked symbolism to make a political point, whatever the purpose behind it.

I am particularly surprised that a German member should seek to use symbolism in the way he did. I do not want to exaggerate the disappointment that people throughout Europe feel about the comments, and I certainly do not want to draw up some of the symbols that were part of another context in history, but I think the Commissioner should be mindful of his country's history and slow to involve himself in a campaign of symbolism. His remarks are particularly disappointing at a time when there is an effort and an exercise across Europe to pull together rather than pull apart.

I accept what the previous speaker stated in respect of the ownership of Commissioners. It is clear that if an Irish Commissioner were to adopt a stance that was seen to be overly supportive of the Irish position, there would be much more noise from the larger states. The same principle should apply in this instance. While the motion is welcome, I wonder whether it will have the desired effect elsewhere. I reiterate that we support the motion and that we are dismayed by the approach that has been taken by the Commissioner.

Chairman

I take it that there is unanimous agreement to the motion. That being the case, I will ask the secretariat to forward it to both the media and the Commissioner.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Apropos a similar matter, the secretariat was offensive to us in the past in the context of the Schumann report and we raised questions about its attitude. Has there been any follow-up on this matter? We requested a meeting with Jean-Claude-----

Chairman

We dealt with that matter at our previous meeting. There has, as yet, been no response to our request.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I took exception to the remarks that were made and the time has come to challenge any such remarks.

Chairman

Absolutely.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I would welcome an update on the matter.