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JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS debate -
Wednesday, 30 Jun 2010

Situation in Haiti: Discussion with GOAL

I welcome to today's meeting an old friend of ours who has been here on a number of occasions, Mr. John O'Shea, chief executive, GOAL. He is accompanied by Jonathan Edgar, senior manager, GOAL, who has just returned from Haiti.

I am pleased that the joint committee has this opportunity to review the current situation in Haiti. It is almost six months since the devastating earthquake struck and caused the deaths of nearly 250,000 people and left in excess of 3 million people homeless. This committee discussed the situation in Haiti on 27 January and made the point on that occasion that Haiti was not equipped to deal with disaster. While many governments around the world, including Ireland, and leading aid agencies reacted quickly — GOAL reacted very quickly on that occasion — in the immediate aftermath of the earthquake and pledged and organised for humanitarian aid to be sent to Haiti, it was clear that all efforts, even the best co-ordinated, could not compensate for an almost total absence of infrastructure and local government to facilitate the delivery of aid. At that time emergency relief was the priority with hundreds of thousands of people in need of water, food, shelter and urgent medical attention. Today I would like to know if conditions have moved on sufficiently to allow the primary focus to move from purely emergency relief to a combination of short-term relief and a long-term focus on sustainable development.

I am aware that the Irish Government has pledged €13 million for relief, recovery and development in Haiti over the period 2010-12. A sum of €500,000, of the €4.5 million provided by Irish Aid in Haiti to date, has been allocated to GOAL of which one half was for an emergency response activity immediately following the earthquake and the other half was for an ongoing cash-for-work scheme that provided employment for the local population in clearing rubble. GOAL, along with Concern, was a primary distributor of more than 130 tonnes of emergency supplies airlifted to Haiti by Irish Aid immediately following the earthquake. I, therefore, welcome John O'Shea and Jonathan Edgar and invite them to outline the work carried out by GOAL in Haiti. We are also interested in their views on the general humanitarian situation, progress in relief works and reconstruction efforts in Haiti in the six months since the ruinous earthquake occurred.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice, or long-standing ruling of the Chair, to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are now protected by absolute privilege. The change has been made since John O’Shea was here last.

Mr. John O’Shea

I hope it was not made because of me.

If witnesses are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and they continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given. They are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. That is the legal position. In many respects, it is better from the point of view of witnesses. There is a new statement of privilege for members and those appearing before the committee. I invite Mr. John O'Shea to address the committee, following which I will invite members to ask questions.

Mr. John O’Shea

I am delighted to have been asked to address the committee on the situation in Haiti. I am accompanied by my colleague, Mr. Jonathan Edgar, who has recently returned from Haiti. He might be in a better position to respond to members' questions on what GOAL is doing. I sent the committee a detailed briefing document the other day.

It has been circulated.

Mr. John O’Shea

I will make a few general comments. I am proud of what Irish people have done to date in Haiti. For a country of Ireland's size, the amount of money the Government has pledged is prodigious. The Irish NGO community in Haiti has done a superb job. The Irish business sector represented in Haiti has done a tremendous job. Yet again, the Irish people have shown how deeply they care about their fellow human beings. There are times when it is great to be Irish. Regardless of how bad the situation in Haiti is, when one visits the country it is great to see the Irish flag flying.

The last time I visited Haiti was approximately two months ago. On that occasion, I became convinced that the international community would respond adequately to a major disaster for the first time in my experience, which goes back to the Cambodian disaster of 1978. I expected that most of the survivors of the disaster would not have anything to complain about and would not be able to say the global community did not do the job that needed to be done. When I left Haiti, I felt that kind of enthusiasm for the first time in all of my travels. I suppose I was looking at the bare facts. I was aware that the international community had pledged an unprecedented amount of money for relief of suffering in Haiti. There were no political obstacles to the provision of relief. Unlike what has been happening in south Sudan, Tibet and Darfur, for example, no major power was objecting to a nation, an institution or any other entity going into Haiti to help. The country was easy to access, from that point of view. There was a willing Haitian workforce of people who got up off the ground and said they would not let this thing beat them. I was heartened by that. The close proximity of a major power — the United States — meant that any supplies, and so on that were needed by the aid community or anyone else working in Haiti could be accessed quickly. There was an effective army of international non-governmental organisations on the ground. There was no civil strife or civil war. We were able to do our business there without fear of being shot. The target area was relatively small. It was not the same as Angola or south Sudan, where thousands of miles need to be travelled before one reaches those in greatest need. Everything was centralised in the Port-au-Prince area.

I apologise for interrupting Mr. O'Shea, but I have to inform members that a vote has been called in the Seanad.

Mr. John O’Shea

That is no problem.

I am terribly sorry to have to leave. I have read the briefing material with great interest. I apologise to Mr. O'Shea and Mr. Edgar.

Mr. John O’Shea

It is always great to see the Senator. I congratulate him on his enthusiasm.

When I visited Haiti following the earthquake, I thought there was tremendous capacity in the private sector outside Haiti, if not in Haiti itself, to do the major construction work that needed to be done there. I felt from day one that the private sector had the primary role in that regard. There is a limit to what NGOs and the UN can do. This is a massive project of reconstruction. If one pays the private sector, it will do it. I felt there and then that this would be the first time we could say we had got it right. Members will be aware that as the poorest country in the western hemisphere, Haiti was ill-equipped to deal with the earthquake when it happened. It did not have a rapid response mechanism. The world does not have a rapid response force, sadly, and instead continues to depend on NGOs, missionaries, ad hoc groups and UN agencies, and so on. I hope it will have such a force some day.

Haiti was particularly vulnerable. The epicentre of the earthquake was very close to its capital, Port-au-Prince. That had not happened before, certainly in living memory. Many people were wiped out very quickly. Nothing was provided for them in the immediate aftermath of the earthquake. Approximately 80% of Haitians live on between $1 and $1.50 a day. The Haitian health and education sectors are very weak. All of the support structures in Haiti are very weak. Haiti needed instant support from outside. That was not immediately forthcoming, for obvious reasons, such as the lack of an international rapid response force. Aid organisations need time to get going. The first week of the tragedy must have been horrific and traumatic for the poor people who were affected by it. When I was in Haiti, many times, I saw arms and legs protruding from buildings. I have seen many bad things in my time. I do not have words to describe what this must have been like in the early days, when the people of Haiti did not have anybody to help them. Many government officials were wiped out. Regardless of whether they were good, bad or indifferent, they were unable to help.

The UN in Haiti was almost decapitated, as many of its staff were killed. It was an unbelievable situation. Happily, the US army acted quickly in taking control of the airport. That was terribly important. More importantly, the UN World Food Programme did a phenomenal job in recognising how important it was that people had food. It is remarkable that 3.5 million people were fed for a number of weeks, if not months, by the programme and its partners, including GOAL. That the World Food Programme was the driving force in averting famine is a tremendous commentary on the work of these people. The rampant spread of disease was also prevented. Within a short period 1.5 million people were under shelter. It was not ideal, but it was much better than we have seen in many other tragic spots around the world. I have never seen an emergency response that was as effective as the response in this case.

When I went to Haiti most recently, it was buzzing with enthusiasm and vibrancy. The traffic in Port-au-Prince was so heavy that one could not get down the streets. The street sellers were out in numbers. The people were determined not to let anything prevent them from getting back on their feet. There was a great sense of urgency. I felt that these people would succeed. It was a privilege for the aid community to help them.

Phase 2 more or less involved the provision of traditional homes as distinct from tents. We now give people a home that is supposed to suffice for perhaps a year or two until a permanent structure is built. Water and sanitation arrangements are critical. All of the work in phase 2, including the rehabilitation and building of schools, was undertaken by the United Nations and the aid agencies which had worked during the initial phase.

The first obstacle which was predictable was the capacity of the Haitian Government to act. It is understandable that in the early period some of the Government officials were not present. We do not know where they were; some of them were dead. When they got their act together, there was bureaucracy and issues arose pertaining to what could be done with the land, including the designation of areas where one could build. There were customs clearance issues and the granting of permission to build anything became an issue. Heavy bureaucracy was a feature. Even the business of dealing with NGOs became a very difficult chore for the Haitian Government. There was and is no master plan for the reconstruction of Port-au-Prince. Problems arose in compensating landowners for the use of the land on which we were to build schools, clinics and houses.

Diplomacy is needed to ease the path and ensure the NGO community and the United Nations can carry out phase 2 more speedily. The determination of the NGOs and the United Nations is such that they will do this job. It will be slower than first anticipated, but it is not insurmountable. The problem is not intractable and those concerned will get over it. The officials are voicing their frustration because the early emergency response was so effective by comparison with the work currently being done. It is not a major issue if the international community can provide an injection of high quality, experienced personnel to the Haitian Government to help it solve all of its problems. The difficulties must be smoothed out for the NGOs and the United Nations because they are providing the assistance.

On the rehabilitation and reconstruction of Haiti, we felt from day one that this task would be way beyond the capability and capacity of the international aid community and the United Nations, in spite of all their heroic work. We felt it was a job for the international community at large. I compare the circumstances in Haiti with those in South Africa. My dream when Mr. Nelson Mandela was released from jail was that the international community would have the moral fibre to decide it would physically rebuild South Africa in order that apartheid would be forgotten and that a mother of eight would no longer have to live in a little hut but would have a sufficient number of rooms. This is what must happen in Haiti.

The people in Haiti have suffered so much for over 200 years. They have had one bad government after another. Some 85% live in desperate poverty. After suffering from the recent tragedy, they are wondering who will help them. While they know no one cannot give them back their sons, husbands or wives, they ask who will give them back the little house, school, business or hospital.

Somebody must grasp the nettle. GOAL believes it should be former US President Bill Clinton who is part of a group called the Interim Haiti Reconstruction Committee, on which the World Bank is represented, as are the US and Haitian Governments. We are not entirely certain what its mandate is, but the time is right for the international community to exert pressure on the Haitian Government or other relevant body to appoint Mr. Clinton as supremo such that, in conjunction with the Haitian Government, he would be allowed to say to every major power on the planet that the job must be done properly. Doing it properly means somebody must take responsibility for roads, bridges and the sewerage system. Somebody must take responsibility for rebuilding 500,000 houses such that Haiti will be returned to where it was before the earthquake. Despite the best efforts of the NGO community which has already been given 9.5 out of ten and the United Nations, they will never be able to do a job of the scale required. GOAL is trying to provide 4,000 temporary dwellings, but in time they will not be very useful to the people. Unless the international community takes on the task and decides we need a focal point, the problem will not be solved. Mr. Clinton could be the catalyst.

One should think of the benefits of what I propose. The Haitian people, the survivors, would realise for the first time in their lives that somebody deeply loved them, to the point of providing them with something they had lost tragically in the disaster. That is most important. We cannot replace the children or parents, but we can certainly replace a physical entity, be it a school, house or clinic. The second advantage of what I propose is even more important. After the next major humanitarian tragedy — we all know such tragedies occur frequently – those who care would be able to say out loud at the major fora of the world that those concerned had rebuilt Haiti properly and in a phenomenal way. They would be able to ask why the same could not be done again. It would be setting a benchmark, something the international community has never really done before, but it can be done in Haiti. There is nothing to stop the job from being done.

What can the Irish Government do to help the process? Given its close association with the United States and Mr. Bill Clinton, it should raise the possibility of Mr. Clinton assuming the role I advocate. I am not advocating that we march into Haiti and take over. If Mr. Clinton is allowed to seek and obtain guaranteed support from other nations, the reconstruction job can be done. If this does not happen, the aid community and the United Nations will continue to do the best they can. Many lives will be enhanced and enriched by their doing so, but one will not be able to say the international community did as good a job as it could have done. That is the challenge facing the world. I am not detracting in any way from the tremendous financial commitment made by the Irish Government but saying our voice is very important on the world stage. I would love to see it being used in the way I propose. There is just a chance it could be successful.

That was a heart warming and encouraging contribution. Mr. O'Shea's proposal is one we will be happy to take up.

I thank Mr. O'Shea for his informative presentation. Normally, in presentations of this nature the committee is told about the downsides and the difficulties encountered. Today it was heartening to hear about the amount of good work that has been done and the enthusiasm for continuing it. Mr. O'Shea is enthusiastic about this project and believes many right actions have been taken. What was the main factor in getting it right on this occasion?

Mr. O'Shea referred to getting Haiti back to where it was before the earthquake. Is there any timeframe for this? Is there a danger the international community might move on from Haiti?

Does Mr. O'Shea believe the decentralisation of Irish Aid had any impact on its efficiency, particularly in light of what a former Minister with responsibility for this area said during the week?

I welcome Mr. O'Shea and Mr. Edgar to the committee. I congratulate them on their valuable report and am glad it has a positive outcome.

The people of Haiti had the experience of three hurricanes in 2008. Billions of dollars in aid were pledged then but never arrived. There is an issue of broken promises, which Mr. O'Shea identified, and creating an atmosphere of trust this time.

I also agree with his point about a rapid response mechanism for the UN. I have written it into the Labour Party's policies deliberately. In the old decolonisation UN committee, it had areas which could be defined quickly as UN protectorates and which then would receive aid from a rapid reaction force of both state and non-state actors. This is a matter we can discuss again.

There are many historical factors that must be remembered when dealing with the response to the Haitian disaster. I remember the Duvalier dictatorship was more than the usual military backed one with authoritarian abuse. It was based on psychological and cultural abuse with the people beaten down into an appalling state of mind.

When Baby Doc Duvalier was ousted in 1986, he was allowed to fly out of Haiti with his father's loot intact, part of it invested in Switzerland and much of it in France. Right in the middle of this recent disaster, these funds, some hundreds of millions of dollars looted from Haiti by the Duvalier family, were declared by a French court decision immune and could not be returned to Haiti. That is a scandal.

The Haitians are in a post-dictatorship situation. Jean-Bertrand Aristide was elected President but then he was exiled abroad. The UN has a difficult problem in Haiti because it is perceived to be in favour of one faction there.

Haiti attempted to come out of the lowest levels of the poverty statistics by encouraging dollar-a-day employment in factories. Most of it was based in Port-au-Prince, leading to an artificial movement of population into the city. Many lived in temporary accommodation which was not earthquake proof while at the same time, they were exploited by international interests which got away with scandalously cheap labour costs.

There is also the factor of the relationship between Haiti and its neighbour, the Dominican Republic, which sometimes could be hostile. All these factors determine the current situation in Haiti.

I admire the great achievements made by Mr. O'Shea in meeting the immediate needs in the provision of water, food and shelter. Let no one minimise these achievements. However, the longer term aims, such as reconstruction and creating stability all involving the Haitians, must come through a UN resolution. The former US President, Bill Clinton, has already spoken about ethical and sustainable investment in Haiti in this regard. People will respond to a disaster when it is on their television screens. We must ensure the aid effort continues to get support even when it is off television.

I thank Mr. O'Shea for his report. Having listened to other agencies working on the ground in Haiti, I understand they all express doubts about the capacity of the Haitian Government to cope with this disaster. It appears, due to the low participation rates in elections, there is little trust in those individuals involved in government there. There are groups in Haitian society which could become partners in delivering aid. This would ensure the cure for Haiti would not be imposed from above. This would also ensure transparency. There is a grave need for trust to emerge among the ordinary Haitian people who are to the fore in wanting to bring about change in their country and have the capacity to work with the aid groups there.

I have grave reservations about American involvement in Haiti, although Bill Clinton is no longer a politician. We know already the history of US involvement in this island. As the US is losing influence in certain Latin American countries, I would not like to see Haiti become its new country of influence. The US policy in the late 1990s regarding rice prices in Haiti was disastrous for the Haitian people.

There were very high levels of hunger and malnutrition in Haiti prior to the earthquake disaster. It is a very broad question, but before this time why was the aid not getting in and making a real difference? Before the disaster, there was hunger and malnutrition and then it was compounded by the disaster. I have one practical question. I know there is a need for temporary dwellings, but is anyone looking at the issue of long-term dwellings and construction?

Perhaps my last two points are more a matter for the committee, and maybe this has been done already, as this is only my second meeting here. I understand that the IMF is committed to cancelling the debt. Has this been done without conditions being applied? That is something Mr. O'Shea might know, and in the event, perhaps this committee could take it up.

On the other point, there are stories emerging from people working there about UN forces, and the Sri Lankan ones, for example, having to be withdrawn. I appreciate this has nothing to do with GOAL. However, Mr. O'Shea might be able to comment, having been there. They have a pretty disastrous record on sexual harassment and violation of women. He might have some information on that. Perhaps this committee has dealt with these matters before and been in touch with the UN on those issues. I do not know. However, I believe they are worth highlighting.

I thank Deputy O'Sullivan. Anything that could be done would be UN-led. The UN has been very active, initially. The suggestion Mr. O'Shea has would tie in, as Deputy Michael D. suggested——

They were withdrawn from Haiti because of these issues with Haitian women, and I believe that is very serious.

Yes, that is correct. It is back to Mr. O'Shea, then.

Mr. John O’Shea

I shall deal with some of the questions——

We have lost our two Senators because of another vote in the Seanad.

Mr. John O’Shea

I shall come back to Deputy Timmins, in a second, but I will deal with Deputy Higgins's question first. I should just remind him that the hurricane season is imminent. He spoke about the flimsy nature of the buildings, and that is correct because poverty-stricken people will live in anything. The only buildings in Port-au-Prince that will withstand a hurricane or an earthquake are the privately owned ones in the hands of the wealthy business people, so the poor have no chance when anything like this happens. The Deputy is right about the cheap labour and so forth.

Will Deputy Timmins please throw his main point at me, again?

What was the difference, this time——

Mr. John O’Shea

I beg the Deputy's pardon. He was concerned, quite rightly, about the international community deciding that it was time to move on, because that is the way it has always been. We are very conscious of this and that is why we are literally clinging on by our fingertips. I take the point Deputy O'Sullivan makes about the United States and so forth, and there is always a danger. However, when one is in the water, and somebody extends a hand, unfortunately one might not be able to say, in effect, "I hope you're from Kiltimagh", or whatever.

One might be trying to transfer from quicksand on to firm ground.

Mr. John O’Shea

The Deputy is correct. However, I am less concerned about the actual individual who will act as El Supremo and be in the driving seat so long as the other nations have rowed in and have their own agenda. For example, the Germans might decide that they will replace every single school in Haiti, and Britain might decide to do the same with the clinics, the roads or whatever it is. It does not really matter who is the driver of such initiatives. That was my hope, as I said earlier, for South Africa.

If we were trying to "sell this" to the international community, when we are talking about Darfur or something we would not have a chance. Immediately, China would say, "Sorry lads" or whatever, interest would wane and I would be told, in effect, "Out of your own mouth, Mr. O'Shea, you've said that more money has been pledged, more good things have happened than anywhere else, so what are you on about?" and they would move on, as Deputy Timmins quite rightly predicts.

We are saying this is the one golden opportunity because it is relatively easy, as it is only reconstruction. I should not stress "only", but it is. Again the Deputy referred to the partnership and all that. That is valid, too, but as regards the actual job, the people who can do this in the way it should be done, effectively, are outside the country. They are construction firms that will work for money.

While this is not my Third World aid hat, so to speak, I am concerned about ensuring that these people get a home. If the expertise was available in the country, it would be used. What I and my colleagues are really afraid of is that if it is left to the Haitian Government, if that Administration is the driver on its own and everyone is looking up to it, this could be critical. At our level, which is relatively low, we are doing just the temporary transitional work. I am afraid that nothing major will be addressed. The major thing, as Deputy Higgins has alluded to there, is whether we shall be able to bring Haiti back to what it was, which is the least we should do, if we are able.

I have not got a magic wand, but unless there is some catalyst there, the situation is hopeless. Deputy Timmins is right when he hints that maybe the international community will feel it has done its bit, and benchmarked against all the other disasters, it has. However, I am still arguing that there is a chance here and if we do not grasp it, it will be a very sad day.

Mr. O'Shea was talking about bringing it back to where it was before, but that was not a very good place, to begin with.

Mr. John O’Shea

Of course it was not. It was a terrible place. One could speak for an hour about how poverty-stricken it was, but we cannot get people to love one another. Whoever created us did not instil that in us, so that is just out. The best we can do is to try to embarrass, force, cajole or whatever to get them to provide, at least, the basics for survival. Of course the people of Haiti should be loved, in the way we understand love. They have not been for more than 200 years, since 1803. As Deputy Higgins said, they have endured one scoundrel government after another, and the situation has been exacerbated by some of the indifference, and more than that, from outside. Deputy O'Sullivan alluded to one of the countries. However, we have to deal with what is there today. These people have suffered intolerably. Those who are alive are looking up and wondering whether anything else is coming.

Human aid is from the top down and it should be from the bottom up, that is, involving the people in the partnership process. There are people who can be involved in that process.

Mr. John O’Shea

Yes. If Bill Clinton, or whoever, is as skilful at dealing with human beings as some portray him to be, that is the way he should go, provided this ultimately results in major governments around the world taking it on board. If they just want to write a cheque and send it to the United Nations, it will not be enough. That is just our take on it.

Deputy O'Sullivan's comments are very valuable. There are mechanisms in place such as the Organisation of American States, however imperfect it is in terms of dollars, to show initiatives in the reconstruction of the civil society. The issue, before the forced movement of Aristide out of the country under external interference and so forth, had been about confidence and acceptance of a decision. Remember, he was elected before he was forced out of the country. At the same time the place is so factionalised now that the reconstruction of the civil society in Haiti has to be part of the project. There are models to be referred to. There was a much conflict-ridden situation in Timor-l'Este, for example. It has made some significant progress, although it is not out of the woods at all yet. That is certainly something that could run side by side with the idea of infrastructure and economic reconstruction.

Another fact that gets lost and which is apparent everywhere is that people are running to cities as their best strategy for survival. One of the reasons for the delay in identifying the bodies in Haiti was that people were trying to find out where they had come from. They had come for the $1 per day wage, or even the $1.50 wage. Civil society has to be able to examine the resources in such places that will not get people to mass together in what effectively are favelas or huge slums. They will be wiped out.

Mr. John O’Shea

Port-au-Prince is a city with 2 million people too many. It probably has the infrastructure for 500,000 people, yet there are 2.5 million people living there. Perhaps my colleague could answer some of these questions.

Mr. Jonathan Edgar

I agree with Deputy O'Sullivan's statement. GOAL would not be able to offer aid at all without building a civil society and working closely with the organisations that existed on the ground before the earthquake and with those that have developed since the earthquake. Our biggest asset is our workforce and the network it can tap into to bring communities on side, explaining what we are trying to achieve. Without that, we would not be able to get any access into the urban areas where we wish to construct temporary shelters. Having said that, it is critical that there is pressure from a high level to ensure that the government maintains its open access for aid to come into the country and that a bureaucratic system is not getting in the way of people who want their homes reconstructed.

There needs to be pressure maintained from a powerful body to ensure that reconstruction is carried out on a policy based on something like "Build Back Better". There will be another hurricane in Haiti and there may be another earthquake, and it was evident from our trip that the buildings with seismic design are still standing. There is no reason that cannot be done during the reconstruction phase. It is absolutely critical for civil society that the country gets back on its feet. The people have to take ownership of what the international community, the NGOs and the UN are trying to do. It is also essential that we are given access to do that work. That is critical for me.

To go back to the point made by Deputy Timmins, one of the main reasons this has been more successful than other responses to humanitarian crises was the easy access provided right from the outset. The Haitian Government did not get in the way and did not put barriers in front of the aid community that was trying to bring food and shelter to those people that needed it most. There was also a very co-ordinated approach by the international community. Everybody pushed and moved in the same direction, and that needs to continue for the duration of the reconstruction of Haiti. It cannot be neglected when the next disaster comes along.

I would like to ask a short question about the capacity of Haiti to be self-sufficient. What kind of programmes are being brought in to develop food sovereignty for the Haitian people?

Mr. Jonathan Edgar

Our priority at the outset was to get food distributed and there would have been much discussion about the impact that had on the market. The agricultural economy in Haiti is based on subsistence farming and the poorest rely on that. Before the earthquake, the country was quite lawless and the economy was driven by emigrants' remittances. The infrastructure in Haiti is not one that would necessarily entice foreign investment, and this is the kind of issue that needs to be addressed down the road. Along with reconstruction, there must be a keen eye on the recovery of the livelihood of the population. Markets have to be accessible to the Haitian people.

I thank Mr. O'Shea and Mr. Edgar for coming here today. Your presentation is very positive and it is good news that things have been handled to date so well by everybody involved. What tends to happen is that there is a good first phase and then the international interest dies out, so we must find some way to keep that going. The suggestion here is about trying to work out the second phase, but that phase is not about simple reconstruction. We have to know how to do it, where to do it and build up civil society at the same time. It is crucial that this phase be considered at this stage. The interest tends to wane after six months, but things are going reasonably well at the moment. It is small enough for it to be considered a microcosm of what might happen on a bigger stage later, so the international community could be shown how it can be done.

Deputy O'Sullivan spoke about the agriculture side of things. We have always been strong on that at this committee. In most of these countries, at least 85% of the people depend for a living on subsistence agriculture. Unless that is built up and marketing improved, the situation will remain the same. That takes time, but that is why the aid agencies need a comprehensive package for the second phase of reconstruction. They also need somebody who is able to bring the interest of the different countries to bear on it. Somebody like former US President Bill Clinton would have the ability to bring people like that together, if he was willing to do so, under the aegis of the United Nations. It is well worth examining and we will follow it through and make representations about it.

It is clear that the situation in Haiti remains extremely fragile and that the road to recovery will be long and difficult. The Minister of State, Deputy Peter Power, is due to travel there next week, so I propose that we write to him this week to bring to his attention a number of the issues raised during today's discussions, and to ask him to consider them in the context of his visit and the deliberations on Ireland's approach and contribution to the relief and reconstruction effort in Haiti.

I thank the delegates for coming here today.

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