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Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence debate -
Tuesday, 5 Dec 2023

Update on Ukraine: Discussion

Apologies have been received from Senator Joe O'Reilly. Several members are participating from their offices because we still have a Covid-type hybrid operation.

I welcome to the Public Gallery the ambassador of Norway, H.E. Ms Mari Skåre, and the Lithuanian ambassador, H.E. Mr. Marijus Gudynas. I also welcome the third secretary from the Palestinian Mission, Dania Dasouqi, and Ms Iga Piotrowska, the political affairs officer at the embassy of Poland.

Members will be aware that in the plenary session of the Dáil, there is an important motion of no confidence in a Minister, and some members have indicated their wish to be in the Chamber to participate and be present for that debate. I understand it commences between 3.45 p.m. and 3.50 p.m. I suggest we hear the presentation from the ambassador of Ukraine to Ireland, and questions that may be posed to us by our colleague Oleksandr Merezhko, who joins us live from the Ukrainian parliament in Kyiv. However, we will cut our proceedings short between 4 p.m. and 4.10 p.m., depending on how we are going. I apologise to the ambassador for that.

I am pleased that we are joined by H.E. Larysa Gerasko, ambassador of Ukraine to Ireland; her colleagues Mr. Yuriy Rubashov and Mr. Dmytro Shchedrin from the Embassy of Ukraine to Ireland; and Mr. Oleksandr Merezhko, chair of the committee of foreign affairs and inter-parliamentary co-operation from the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, joining us via MS Teams. They are all welcome. Ambassador Gerasko and Mr. Merezhko will give us an update on the current situation in Ukraine, which is a matter of great concern to our committee and an issue on which we have had substantive discussions for more than 18 months. We will start straight away and see how we are going in 50 minutes or so.

The meeting will be in the usual format. We will hear H.E. Gerasko's opening statement followed by questions and answers from members of the committee. I ask members to be concise and to allow all members the opportunity to participate. Witnesses and members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, I remind both members and witnesses to be cautious in their statements.

For witnesses attending remotely from outside of the Leinster House campus, there are some limitations to parliamentary privilege and as such they may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings as witnesses physically present. I remind members that they are only allowed to participate in the meeting if they are physically located on the Leinster House complex. I see Senator Wilson and Deputy Stanton are online.

I once again welcome the ambassador. She has the unstinting support of all members of this committee in the context of current challenges in Ukraine. I call her to make her opening statement.

H.E. Ms Larysa Gerasko

I thank the Chair and the committee for the opportunity to be here to brief the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence on the latest developments and situation in Ukraine, including the ongoing war and our visible challenges for the future. Before turning to my remarks, on behalf of the people of Ukraine, I extend words of appreciation for the support from Ireland, which we are receiving at this unprecedentedly challenging time for our country.

Today is the 650th day of Russia’s full-scale invasion of my country, a major escalation of the Russian war against Ukraine which began in 2014. It resulted in tens of thousands of deaths and immense devastation. The displacement crisis it caused is becoming increasingly protracted. More than 11 million Ukrainians remain displaced, including 5 million within Ukraine and a further 6.2 million - more than the entire population of Ireland - have been seeking safety abroad. This includes more than 100,000 who were granted temporary protection in Ireland. We really appreciate that. Severe and intense military operations take place on the front line, in particular the defence actions in the east, as well as offensive operations in the south of our country. On the ground, Ukraine’s advance is seriously complicated by Russia’s intensive mine-laying and multilayered defence extending up to 40 km in depth as well as Russian dominance in the sky. Despite all challenges, Ukrainian troops are gaining success in a number of front-line areas. The Armed Forces of Ukraine took control of several bridgeheads on the left bank of the Dnipro river in the Kherson region and achieved success in the battle for the Black Sea. The occupier's fleet can no longer operate in the western part of the Black Sea and is forced to redeploy warships from temporarily occupied Crimea.

Despite a number of devastating defeats and growing losses in numbers killed, Russia demonstrates readiness for a protracted war of attrition, hoping to win with the use of its still considerable resources, war fatigue and nuclear blackmail. In revenge for its military losses on the ground, Russia continues terrorising Ukrainian civilians by attacking critical infrastructure and residential areas with missiles, MLRS, guided aerial bombs and attack drones, resulting in significant casualties and destruction. The targets of enemy attacks are mainly port infrastructure, grain warehouses, airfield network and civilian buildings, which can be considered as nothing else but violation of the laws and customs of war. The Russian occupiers continue attacking Ukraine daily with Iranian-made attack drones. Almost 3,000 UAVs were used against us in the war of terror, with almost 300 drones in October. It increases production of attack drones and accumulates them for winter attacks. Russia showed its true cynical and genocidal nature when, on 25 November, it launched its largest drone attack on Kyiv - 75 drones - on the day of commemoration of the victims of Holodomor, the great famine of 1932-33 in Ukraine. That day Kyiv was filled with international leaders and representatives of foreign states, including An Cathaoirleach, Senator Buttimer.

There are no safe places in Ukraine. Russia continues terrorising Ukrainian civilians every day and night. It shells kindergartens, schools and hospitals and destroys critical infrastructure and residential areas, resulting in significant casualties all over the country. The geography of the airborne attacks stretches from the west to east and the north to south of Ukraine. People in Ukraine live under the constant threat of death. Children study in bomb shelters. People spend nights in subways and bomb shelters because of missile attacks.

No one knows if they are to wake up in a bed in the morning or lying under the rubble of their house.

One of our biggest concerns is our children. As Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine enters a second year, the war continues to take a devastating toll on the lives of millions of Ukrainian children. Right now, over 7 million children in the country are in grave danger of physical and emotional harm, and displacement. Bombing and shelling have damaged key infrastructure, leaving many children without access to the most basic goods and services, thereby depriving them of the enjoyment of their human rights, including those relating to education, water, health, food and even their right to life. Some 3,510 children have been killed, according to official data. More than 1,000 have been wounded, more than 2,000 have gone missing and almost 20,000 children have been deported. These numbers do not take into account the temporarily occupied areas. Russia continues its deliberate policy of forcible transfers and deportations of vulnerable Ukrainian children within temporarily occupied territories and across the border with the Russian Federation. It also places them into the camps for political indoctrination, military training and illegal adoption.

In Russia, Ukrainian children have their names changed and are illegally adopted. Two children from Ukraine were adopted recently by the family of the faction head of the Russian state Duma, Sergey Mironov. These actions fall under the definition of genocide, according to the 1948 genocide convention, and constitute a grave violation of the fourth Geneva Convention and the Convention on the Rights of the Child. The widespread and systematic violation of the human rights of children in the context of the war against Ukraine, as well as related violations of international humanitarian law, must be stopped and those responsible held to account. The victims, including Ukraine’s children, must have access to remedy and redress. To address this problem, the Bring Kids Back UA platform was initiated by the President of Ukraine. The strategic action plan unites the efforts of the Ukrainian Government, partner countries, international organisations and civil society to trace, identify, repatriate and care for all Ukrainian children illegally deported by Russia. Besides the obvious goal of reuniting Ukrainian families and giving those children back their lives, the programme also aims to provide the International Criminal Court with the facts and proven information they need to prosecute the criminals responsible for these illegal deportations. For this purpose, Canada has proposed the creation of an international coalition of countries to help to return Ukrainian children abducted by Russia. This initiative will continue the Bring Kids Back UA action plan. The first meeting of the international coalition of countries for the return of Ukrainian children is to be held in Kyiv on 8 December.

Another huge threat to the world is Russia’s nuclear blackmail. Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant still remains under Russian control. On 25 October, Russia most probably tried to target Ukraine's Khmelnytsky nuclear power plant with drones. Luckily, it failed but it brought damage to the plant's infrastructure, temporarily cutting power to some off-site radiation monitoring stations. There are more details and information in my written statement. Russia is the only state in the world that has fired at the premises of a nuclear power plant. No one else made the nuclear plant a test site for storing weapons and shells. Russia is covering itself with a nuclear plant to shell our cities with jet artillery. If anyone in the world is still able to ignore Russia's other war crimes, such a crime against humanity must certainly motivate everyone to action. The aggressor state, Russia, must be ousted from the international nuclear energy market. Sanctions on Rosatom, the personal ones at first and those on Russian nuclear fuel and technologies thereafter, must be imposed.

The Russian military and state authorities are well known for having committed many deliberate attacks against civilian targets, massacres of civilians, the torture and rape of women and children, and the torture of Ukrainian prisoners of war. Russia is today using prohibited tactics of war by weaponising food. As the committee is aware, Russia withdrew from the Black Sea grain initiative in July and started attacking Ukrainian ports storing grain intended for export. This initiative plays a vital role in stabilising global food markets, ensuring food supplies to vulnerable populations and promoting humanitarian assistance efforts. We know that the lives of about 400 million people around the world depend on Ukrainian food exports. That is why, even in these difficult times, Ukraine remains a guarantor of global food security. The international community understands the importance of a consistent food supply to those in need. Thirty-four countries, including Ireland, joined the Grain from Ukraine programme launched by our country. Never again should hunger become a weapon against the freedom of people. Anyone who tries to use hunger in such a way, anyone whose terror creates chaos in the food market, must be held accountable before the entire world. Russia must be held accountable.

Last winter, the Kremlin's drones and missiles zeroed in on Ukraine's power grid, hoping to erode the country's will to resist Russia's invasion by denying civilians heating. Such attacks on the objects of civilian infrastructure are a clear weaponisation of the cold season by Russia and an attempt to increase casualties among the civilian population of Ukraine. Russia is now getting ready for a new wave of terror against Ukraine's energy sector ahead of the winter season. We appreciate all the assistance provided by countries around the globe last winter. However, people in Ukraine are still in mortal danger of freezing to death this winter if we do not have enough components to fix the damage to the energy system.

I have just mentioned Ukraine's energy system, which is a target for Russia. However, it is only a fraction of the immense amount of destruction that Russia brought to Ukraine. The devastation caused by Russia to Ukraine is currently estimated at $411 billion. In 2023, Ukraine's rapid recovery needs remain at up to $15 billion. Its priorities include rebuilding infrastructure, housing, transportation, economic development of communities, job creation and business opportunities in the liberated areas.

The UN, in co-operation with the Government of Ukraine, the World Bank and the EU, has initiated a third rapid assessment of Ukraine's damage and needs, which will determine investment priorities for recovery and reconstruction for the year ahead. We count on Ireland to be on board and provide assistance in Ukraine’s recovery.

All the Russian assets that are blocked today, which amount to almost $500 billion, should be the priority for the restoration of Ukraine and compensation for the damage. Belgium has become the first country to launch the practice of using frozen Russian assets for security assistance to our country and for fast recovery projects. We strongly believe that Ireland can employ the Belgian practice and put the €1.8 billion of Russian assets frozen in Ireland towards the financial assistance to Ukraine. When we talk about recovery, we are talking about millions of jobs, billions in company profits and trillions in GDP, not only for Ukraine but for all European countries. This will also be crucial in providing the basis for all Ukrainians who were forced to leave Ukraine to come back home.

Let me bring to the committee's attention the importance of sanctions against Russia. Despite the efforts of the international community, the Russian state still manages to acquire technologies and equipment through a network of suppliers and circumvent the international sanctions regime. The analysis of independent investigations shows that the circumvention of the export sanctions on Russia amounted to an astonishing €8 billion in 2022. Just imagine that. Western businesses use third countries to sell their products to Russia. In addition, there is still no ban on Russian liquefied gas that comes to Europe. More joint work is needed to combat any forms and schemes by which Russia is avoiding sanctions or earns on selling its natural resources. Any money and supplies to Russia that allow it to increase military production must be stopped. This is in the clear interest not only of Ukraine but also everyone in the world who wants to see a speedy end to this barbaric war. That is why we expect decisive steps towards this aim in the 12th EU package of sanctions.

Dear members of the committee, almost everything becomes a weapon in Russian hands, and information is not an exception. Russia uses propaganda, disinformation, and misinformation to justify its deeds. Russia has become a global champion in the craft of spreading lies and creating deep fakes, which reach the minds of ordinary people not only inside one country, but across Europe and the world. That is something that definitely has to be dealt with and we strongly believe that we have to do it together.

As we all see, dear members of the committee, the Russian meaning of peace is completely opposite to a peace as the civilised world sees it. What we propose is Ukraine’s peace formula that, to our strongest belief, remains the only realistic and comprehensive plan to restore Ukraine's territorial integrity and to guarantee security and justice for the entire international community. Its ten points were reflected in the UN General Assembly resolution in February of this year, which was adopted by 141 votes, or a majority of countries. The peace formula is gradually gaining the support of the world. It is universal in its nature and can create a basis not only to end Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine but also other armed conflicts on the planet and overcome global problems. We are grateful to Ireland for joining the process for the implementation of the peace formula, in particular three out of ten of its points. They are radiation and nuclear safety, food security and restoration of justice. We are also grateful to Ireland for supporting us on the track of restoration of justice in particular, by participating in the core group of countries on the establishment of the special tribunal on the crime of aggression, which is to fill the jurisdictional gap of the International Criminal Court.

Although the war for our existence is the priority for us, we also put as much efforts in fulfilling our European integration aspirations. We would like to thank Ireland for its unwavering support for Ukraine’s path to full membership of the EU. Ukrainians have been committed to their European integration course for ten years since the 2014 Revolution of Dignity, followed by the Russian occupation of parts of Ukrainian territories. During all these years, eight of the low-intensity war and almost two of the full-scale invasion, Ukrainian political elites and society have been modernising and transforming the country, gradually aligning its legislation with European norms and standards. Ukraine has been demonstrating not only resilience but a capacity to prepare the country for EU membership.

All of this has been taking place under Russia’s continuing missile and drone attacks and bloody battles on the front line. No candidate country has ever had such an experience, and we wish no one would ever have. At the same time, Ukraine believes that the decision to start EU accession negotiations should be merit-based. Ukraine is not asking for political concessions. We have created a strong basis for the EU’s positive decision to open accession negotiations. We clearly understand that we are only at the beginning of the path to full-fledged EU membership and are committed to further transformation.

In 2023, the Ukrainian Government conducted self-screening for the adaptation of national legislation to EU law to effectively go through the official screening. To meet all the criteria defined by the EU, Ukraine is already elaborating on a detailed plan for the implementation of all the European Commission’s recommendations for 2024. Given Ukraine’s significant progress in the implementation of the European Commission's seven recommendations in just 16 months, which was recognised by the European Commission enlargement package on 8 November 2023, we expect the European Council to make a political decision to start accession negotiations with Ukraine at its meeting on 14 and 15 December.

We are grateful to Ireland for supporting the enlargement policy and Ukraine’s joining the EU. We must admit that what Russia does in Ukraine is not just a Ukrainian problem. This is a challenge

for everyone. As Ukraine fights for democracy, freedom and European values the world must be united to stop Russian aggression as soon as possible and minimise its destructive consequences. What Ukraine needs is to receive credible security guarantees. Putin’s disregard for all international agreements makes it impossible for Kyiv to rely on documents such as the 1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, which turned out to be worthless. Due to this memorandum, Ukraine gave Russia its second biggest nuclear arsenal which is being used against us.

Ukraine started negotiations with the US, the UK, Canada, Japan, France, the Netherlands and Germany and has agreed to start working with Sweden and Norway on bilateral documents on security guarantees. The world has to unite and join its efforts in helping Ukraine to defeat the Russian army.

In conclusion, I stress that we must ensure that in the future there will be no war anywhere in Europe or the world. No other city in Europe should live through what all the cities and villages of Ukraine are experiencing. We must be united and work to full capacity so that only Russia’s ambitions are ruined, and not our country's and our cities. We must make it possible and we will do it. We must win.

I thank the ambassador for her comprehensive update on a range of issues of fundamental concern to Ukraine and its people. I am pleased she has had an opportunity to present directly to the committee before the end of another year. I will not go to committee members for questions at this stage because the chair of the foreign affairs committee, Mr. Oleksandr Merezhko, has waited patiently and I know he has a number of important engagements this afternoon. I thank him for being with us. I know he does not have a formal presentation for the committee. In any event, the ambassador's presentation was without parallel in terms of its comprehensive nature.

I will ask Mr. Merezhko to update the committee briefly on the current situation, the counter-offensive and what he expects from other western states, such as Ireland, which have been with Ukraine in terms of solidarity and support since the dreadful days of February 2022. We are very keen to continue our unwavering and unstinting support but perhaps Mr. Merezhko could give the committee his view on what his support priorities might be.

Ireland is supportive of the Ukraine ten-point peace formula. However, in the current circumstances asking for a ceasefire or talking about peace is somewhat pointless. First, because there is no sign of Mr. Putin wishing for any form of peace. Second, even if he were to show that he was interested in peace, he cannot be trusted in any event and will not be trusted - certainly by Ireland.

Perhaps Mr. Merezhko will enlighten the committee as to where he believes the ten-point peace formula is going and what he would like Ireland, the Irish people, and the Irish Government to do to continue our unwavering support. We now find ourselves in the middle of another winter and another time of great difficulty and challenge for Ukraine and its people. We thank Mr. Merezhko for his work, his leadership and for joining us this afternoon.

Mr. Oleksandr Merezhko

I thank the committee and I express the most sincere and profound gratitude to the Irish people and the Irish Parliament. Ukraine feels their friendship and we know they firmly support us, that they are on our side, and are trying to help us to survive and fight against global evil which is trying to destroy global security and not only the European security architecture.

It would be a grave mistake to view this war as merely a local conflict or as the aggression of one country against another country. The truth is that we have entered a phase of what is called a global hybrid war. Today I had a conversation with a journalist who asked me, "Your colleagues in the West, do they understand, do they realise that Putin and Russia is waging war not only against Ukraine but the whole West?". It is called the "collective West" and Russia is waging war against Ireland, all democratic countries, and the free world.

The truth is that the situation is difficult and what we have now in Ukraine is only the first battle in this global war. Ukraine is fighting not only against Russia. We are talking about a collision of autocracies or authoritarian states which are trying to destroy Ukraine because they view us as a country that is fighting for democratic values, freedom and global security. Against us is not only Russia but Belarus, Iran, North Korea, Cuba and other authoritarian regimes. There is also a "big brother" standing behind these countries and waiting patiently and we do not know what his role is exactly. This is something which should be taken into consideration. This is a global hybrid war.

As for what is going on, there is the latest example of Russia using migrants as a weapon against Finland in the same way as it did against Lithuania and Poland. It is an example of how this is a global conflict. From what I see, Putin's tactics have changed. He is using three mechanisms. First, he is trying to divert the world's attention from Ukraine, which is why he is instigating, supporting and trying to provoke different kinds of conflicts all over the world. Today, we see it in the Middle East. There is a very strong link between Hamas and Russia. There has always been this link. Russia and Hamas are the same evil. They are the evil of terror because Russia was recognised officially by the Council of Europe as a terrorist regime.

It supported Hamas. It is the same evil. Russia will try to undermine stability in Europe by provoking conflicts in the Balkans, the Indo-Pacific region and all over the world. This is the first thing Russia is trying to do.

Second, Russia is trying to destroy us economically. Russia understands it cannot win this war against Ukraine militarily. That is why this is its goal. We should keep in mind its goal. It is not to invade part of the territory of Ukraine and keep these territories; the goal is much broader. It is to destroy Ukraine, deprive us of our statehood and annihilate and eliminate Ukraine as a nation. That is why this is a genocidal war.

Putin's goals are even more broad. He will undermine the whole rules-based order. This is a war against the West. If we fail, the next countries to be attacked by Russia will be Romania, Moldova, Poland and the Baltic states. I am sure of this. We should do everything we can to stop Russia right now in Ukraine and defeat it in order to win this battle of the global war between freedom and slavery. Putin is trying to sow the seeds of distrust and disinformation in Ukraine and all over the world. He is using propaganda to undermine our belief in ourselves, transatlantic solidarity and solidarity within the European Union. He is not alone. He is only part of a very powerful authoritarian coalition.

I thank Mr. Merezhko. That was strong and powerful. Due to the importance of events at the plenary session of our Dáil, which will commence at 4.10 p.m. with an address by the Taoiseach, I will somewhat curtail questions. I know Senator Craughwell is not a Member of the Dáil but these issues could have consequences for the Seanad as well, in the event of votes going a particular way. I will take one round of questions to Mr. Merezhko, the chair of the foreign affairs committee, and to H.E. Larysa Gerasko. I will commence with Deputy Cronin. I have received apologies from her on behalf of Deputy Carthy. I will then move to Deputy Berry and Senator Craughwell.

I welcome the ambassador to the committee. I wish to ask how she and her family are. Does she have family in Ukraine?

H.E. Ms Larysa Gerasko

Like all Ukrainians, my family is in Ukraine.

It is very hard, particularly coming into Christmas. I would like to ask the ambassador to talk about the so-called adoptions, which should be called abductions. I spoke to a friend of mine who is a teacher. She told me the Ukrainian children in her school are clever and diligent. They are doing very well here. I would also like to ask the ambassador to speak about how the embassy could help Ukrainian professionals who have come to Ireland, such as teachers, doctors and nurses, to work, have their qualifications recognised more quickly and help with services such as education for Ukrainian children, etc.

I am confused, Chairman. I thought Mr. Merezhko was going to talk about peace efforts but I did not hear much about that. Talking about genocidal wars, there are two awful wars at the moment in Ukraine and Gaza - I believe today has been absolutely horrendous. All war is horrendous and I would like to hear more about peace efforts. We brought peace to our country and we had to give up the Six Counties. Our island is not united. Getting peace in our country meant us having to row back. We had a referendum and we had to give up our ownership of the Six Counties. That is hard. You have to keep working for peace but we are still in a better place in Ireland than we were back when the war was going on.

I wish to express solidarity with the older people of Ukraine. We are very child-focused but older people in Ukraine might have themselves, and would certainly have family members, who survived the famine. I spoke previously about the famine in Ukraine. Those people would also have lived through the Second World War and the occupation by Russia. I express solidarity with them too.

I welcome the ambassador, her team and Mr. Merezhko, who is in Ukraine. I was intrigued by what the ambassador said about a Canadian initiative to establish a coalition for the return of children. She said a meeting was planned in Kyiv on 8 December. I had not heard of that before. Does she know if Ireland is involved? Is Ireland sending a representative?

We do not have a lot of time to go into the briefing, which was quite comprehensive. I am concerned about the issue of sanctions. It seems sanctions are being ignored or abused. Is there any evidence that Irish companies have tried to find a way around the sanctions to supply Russian industry? There is lots more we could ask but we do not have time today.

I do not see Deputy Stanton's hand raised online but I understand he is present. He may be gone to the Chamber. There were a number of questions, in particular on the matter of children, the conference at the behest of Canada and the ongoing issue of sanctions and counteroffensives. Mr. Merezhko may have comments or observations on the issues raised by members of the committee. Then I will go back to the ambassador.

Mr. Oleksandr Merezhko

I thank members for the great questions. I will start with peace because I assure the committee no one in the world right now yearns for peace as much as we Ukrainians do. We want peace but we do not want appeasement. Appeasement means death to us. We want peace based on international law, which means the withdrawal of Russian troops. The answer to the question about peace talks can be found in the recently adopted resolution of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, which states very clearly that "... any peace talks can only take place under the conditions set out by Ukraine and after the withdrawal of the Russian troops ... from the whole territory of Ukraine". To have any negotiations, peace or ceasefire, we need two things. First, we need another party, a sort of counterpart or subject for peace negotiations, which is reliable. We need to be sure that this person or country will keep its promises and abide by the agreement reached as a result of negotiations. In this regard, Putin has absolutely no credibility. He is a pathological liar, criminal and violator. He is a war criminal. How can we trust this person or any deal with this person who has already violated all treaties with Ukraine, who ignores international law and absolutely does not care? That is the first requirement.

The second is that there should be an objective for any talks or deal. We have heard many times about different kinds of peace plans by Brazil, China and whatever. They are too abstract. They do not answer very simple questions, such as territorial concessions. I suspect these plans for peace or, to be more precise, plans for appeasement of the aggressor, imply territorial concessions on the part of Ukraine. That is totally unacceptable, not only for Ukraine but for the whole world and the international legal order.

There was a great question about sanctions. That is another point.

We are in favour of the total economic isolation of Russia. Unfortunately, Russia has found ways to adapt to circumventing the sanctions. Some countries have turned into hubs, and this helps Russia to circumvent and bypass sanctions. That is why we need secondary sanctions against those countries that are buying Russian oil and gas and thereby financing the Russian war machine. These are the kinds of sanctions we need. We also need Ireland's co-operation because we need to freeze and confiscate all moneys belonging to Russia as a state and to Russian oligarchs. The latter also support and finance the war. We need to confiscate their money and give it to the victims of the aggression.

H.E. Ms Larysa Gerasko

I thank Members for their very interesting questions. Regarding our teachers, doctors and medical personnel, a few weeks after the full scale invasion representatives of the Teaching Council and the Irish Medical Council came to our embassy. We were very grateful for their quick and professional response. Ukrainian teachers and medical doctors can register with the Teaching Council and the Irish Medical Council respectively and are given a year or more to pass exams in English after their registration. All Ukrainian professionals who speak English have opportunities to work in their chosen profession in Ireland.

The Taoiseach will address the conference online. That is unfortunate, but it is the reality of the situation. We hope that a representative of the embassy will participate in person. This will be the first meeting of the coalition. I hope this coalition will be helpful with regard to returning children to Ukraine and also with regard to sanctions.

I am watching the clock. I invite Mr. Merezhko to make a brief closing comment before I bring matters to a conclusion. I thank our guests most sincerely for joining us again today and I reassure them of Ireland's support and solidarity. I regret that our proceedings here today are shorter than we would like but I thank Mr. Merzhko for taking the time to join us directly from Kyiv. We look forward to further engagement in the new year.

Mr. Oleksandr Merezhko

Thank you, Chairman. First, I am grateful to you personally for coming to Kyiv and Ukraine several times. It is extremely important because it is a sign of solidarity and friendship with us. It sent a very strong and powerful signal to our society when your speakers came to Kyiv and when you came to Kyiv. Please come to Kyiv again. Next year will mark two years since the full scale invasion. Ahead of us is a very difficult winter. We know that Russia has accumulated enough drones and missiles to destroy us economically and to destroy our power grid but we are determined to survive and win, no matter what. However, we need your support and your help. We are talking about a war of attrition. We do not know for how much longer the war will continue; it might be a very protracted conflict. It might be a marathon but when we have friends behind us, when we have friends standing with us and supporting us, we can win and we should win. That is why my appeal to you is to continue to support the Ukrainian people. It matters a lot and means a lot to us. Thank you for everything you have already done for Ukraine and the Ukrainian people.

Thank you. I also thank the ambassador for updating us and for visiting our Parliament on a regular basis. No doubt we will be in contact again before the end of the year.

I want to apologise on behalf of Deputy Carthy, our spokesperson on foreign affairs, who could not be here today.

The joint committee adjourned at 4.16 p.m. until 3.15 p.m. on Tuesday, 12 December 2023.
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