Joint Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage debate

Update on Homelessness: Discussion

An Cathaoirleach

Good afternoon, I welcome everyone to this meeting of the Joint Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage. Today's meeting will be split into two 90-minute sessions to discuss homelessness and follow up on a report on a number of issues related to homelessness and housing, published by the committee last year. For the first session we are joined by officials from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, the Dublin Region Homeless Executive and Cork City Council. In the second session we will engage with Alone, the Cork Simon Community, Dublin Town and the National One Parent Family Alliance. For this session we are joined in person by Mr. David Kelly, Ms Rosemarie Tobin, and Ms Jennifer Peyton from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage; by Ms Mary Hayes and Mr. John Durkan from the Dublin Region Homeless Executive, DRHE; and by Mr. Brian Geaney, Mr. Niall Ó Donnabháin and Ms Aileen O'Brien from Cork City Council. Mr. Nicky Carroll from Cork City Council also joins us online.

As it is a 90-minute session, I ask members and witnesses to keep the interactions to five minutes each and to be direct with their questions and answers so that we can get through more issues.

Before we commence, I will read a note on privilege. I remind members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the place where the Parliament has chosen to sit, namely Leinster House, to participate in public meetings. Witnesses attending in the committee room are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their contributions to today's meeting. This means they have an absolute defence against any defamation action for anything they say at the meeting. Members and witnesses are expected not to abuse the privilege they enjoy and it is my duty, as Chair, to ensure this privilege is not abused. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction. For witnesses attending remotely there are some limitations to parliamentary privilege and, as such, they may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings as a person who is physically present. Members and witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

The opening statements that were submitted to the committee will be published on the committee website after the meeting. I would appreciate if witnesses kept their opening statements to five minutes each. That would help us. We will hear them in the following order: Mr. Kelly from the Department, Ms Hayes from the DRHE and then Mr. Geaney from Cork City Council.

Mr. David Kelly

I thank the committee for inviting the Department to discuss its interim report on homelessness and the recommendations made in that report. I am accompanied by my colleagues, Rosemarie Tobin, principal officer with responsibility for the homelessness policy, funding and delivery unit; and Jennifer Peyton, assistant principal officer in that unit.

The Department works very closely with local authorities on the response to homelessness and I am pleased that our colleagues from the DRHE and Cork City Council are attending today. Eradicating homelessness is a priority for the Department. This year, funding of €242 million will be made available for the delivery of homeless services. This funding will ensure that local authorities can provide emergency accommodation, homelessness prevention and tenancy sustainment services, including Housing First, and other services to households experiencing, or at risk of, homelessness. A key focus is to ensure that households in emergency accommodation are supported to exit homelessness to tenancies as quickly as possible. The budget for homeless services will be kept under continual review in 2024 with a commitment to provide any necessary funding required.

Housing for All is the Government’s plan to meet the overall aim of ensuring everyone in the State has access to a home to purchase or rent at an affordable price, built to a high standard and in the right place, offering a high quality of life. The plan includes more than 200 actions across four pathways which collectively address housing issues. All those actions contribute to creating a housing system that meets the needs of our people. Under Housing for All, at least €4 billion in capital investment is available each year to support the delivery of housing, with more than €5 billion in capital investment available this year. The plan recognises that housing policy must address the needs of socially excluded members of society and that the issue of homelessness is one of the most pressing issues of our time. Many of the actions in Housing for All address issues raised by the committee in its 2021 report. The State made an overarching commitment at a European level by signing the Lisbon Declaration on Combatting Homelessness and has committed again in Housing for All to working towards ending homelessness by 2030. This will be done through a number of actions, including by increasing the overall supply of housing. The plan aims to deliver 300,000 homes by the end of 2030, including 90,000 social homes, 36,000 homes for affordable purchase and 18,000 cost-rental homes.

I will turn to the current homelessness situation. The most recent monthly and quarterly homeless reports produced by the Department show there was an increase in the numbers accessing emergency accommodation in January 2024 with a total of 13,531 individuals accessing such accommodation. While the numbers in emergency accommodation remain too high, the progress report for quarter 4 of 2023, which is based on data submitted by local authorities, shows progress in prevention of and exits from homelessness. In 2023, 2,815 adults exited emergency accommodation by way of a tenancy being created and 4,033 adults were prevented from entering emergency accommodation, a combined total of 6,848 adult exits and preventions. This is a yearly increase of 25% on 2022 figures. In particular, we can see that initiatives such as the tenant in situ scheme are increasing the number of preventions. The tenant in situ scheme provides for the acquisition of a property where a social housing tenant has received a notice of termination due to the landlord’s intention to sell the property. While the social housing statistics for 2023 are still being finalised, the Department understands that the target to acquire 1,500 properties in 2023 was exceeded. This scheme will continue in 2024 with provision to acquire an additional 1,500 properties. The prevention figures for quarter 4 of 2023 represent significant increases when compared to quarter 4 of 2022, with 91% more households, 100% more adults and 116% more families prevented from entering homelessness. In order to further increase exits from homelessness, in December last year the Minister wrote to all local authority chief executives regarding the need to reduce the numbers in emergency accommodation, placing a specific emphasis on translating the social housing delivery of 2023 into exits from homelessness. Based on the responses to this letter, local authorities are projecting a significant increase in exits compared to the same period 12 months ago. We are also driving better co-ordination of policy measures and actions and the national homeless action committee, NHAC, has been playing a key role in this regard. All Departments, Government agencies and other stakeholders, including NGOs, are represented on the NHAC. A key priority of the committee is to drive delivery of actions under the Housing for All plan.

I will now touch on a number of key policy developments under Housing for All, which are being overseen in co-operation with NHAC members and local authorities. Housing First has continued to build upon the progress already made in housing some of our most vulnerable individuals. The Housing First National Implementation Plan 2022-2026 outlines our target to provide more than 1,300 new supported social housing tenancies and build on successes under this programme. In 2023, an additional 320 tenancies were recorded nationwide. This brings the total to 560 under the current plan, which exceeds the two-year target of 551. Almost 1,000 individuals were in a Housing First tenancy nationwide at the end of 2023.

With the programme significantly expanding, additional governance and management arrangements have been put in place, including the establishment of a new directorate based in the Housing Agency. The youth homelessness strategy, which was launched in November 2022, is the first youth homelessness strategy in two decades and sets out 27 distinct actions aimed at preventing young people entering homelessness, improving the experiences of young people in emergency accommodation and assisting young people to exit homelessness. Implementation of the strategy is well under way and work has commenced on 25 of the 27 actions in the strategy. The strategy will be at its halfway point in May and it is intended to publish a progress report at that stage.

An Cathaoirleach

Witnesses must keep to the five-minute allocation. They will get a chance to touch on the bits they do not read.

Mr. David Kelly

Sure.

An Cathaoirleach

I move to Ms Mary Hayes on behalf of the Dublin Region Homeless Executive.

Ms Mary Hayes

I am attending today in my capacity as director of the Dublin Region Homeless Executive, the DRHE, which operates a shared service on behalf of the four Dublin local authorities. I am accompanied by Mr. John Durkan, deputy director of the DRHE. The figures of 2023 at a glance are provided and I will focus on the headline figures. There were 1,395 households prevented from homelessness in 2023, which is an increase of 25% when compared with the figures from 2022. This is largely through the addition of the tenant in situ scheme, which supplemented the homeless housing assistance payment, HAP, which had been falling in 2022. These figures for Dublin also include other lettings, such as those to older people who are at risk of homelessness. The committee will be aware of the Dublin scheme in this regard. A number of NGOs, such as Threshold, provide advice and advocacy and they are not included in these figures. These figures are purely prevention through tenancy creations.

For the full year of 2023, there was a 2% decrease in new households presenting as homeless. There was a 6% increase in the numbers who exited to a tenancy but overall, there was still a rise in homelessness given the lower rate of exits to tenancy relative to new presentations. Every month, more are coming in than there are exiting. That is the important figure and that is what is causing the rise.

As for standards and care in emergency accommodation, on which we spoke to the committee before, we started the implementation of a quality standards framework to private emergency accommodation, PEA. There was a growing dependence on this form of accommodation in the Dublin region and concerns were raised at this committee and in other areas on this matter. For the DRHE, the overall strategy is to align standards and service provision between PEA services and NGOs, insofar as is possible.

To date, we have achieved the introduction of a care and case management team, which works on an in-reach basis. It is funded by the DRHE and the HSE. It consists of NGO in-reach teams going into PEAs. This is supplemented by a team of Dublin City Council housing support officers whose sole focus is to promote suitable move-on options. With this in place, residents in both NGO and PEA services can avail of supports focusing on health, addiction, employment, housing needs and so on. However, I do not wish to equate the two; they are not exactly the same yet but that is what we are working towards.

The DRHE has introduced a set of 11 key performance indicators, KPIs, for private emergency accommodation. They are reported on a quarterly basis and cover fire safety, complaints, adverse incidents, training, exclusions and child welfare. The DRHE is working on producing and harmonising the same report between the NGOs and PEAs in order to examine the spectrum of emergency accommodation. There is also a joint project, led by the HSE, which has developed a baseline training programme for all of the staff on PEA projects and covers areas such as trauma and informed care in particular.

As for inspections, the DRHE wishes to move away from relying on self-reporting alone. In addition to the KPI monitoring, there is an appropriately qualified independent inspectorate that examines and reports on building conditions, on-site facilities, operational systems, staff, health and safety and food services. There are also unannounced site visits, including visits during evenings and weekends. That is done by our own team of property and standards staff. This is to find out how it works when the spotlight is not on them and when a visit is not expected. As the committee is probably aware, Dublin Fire Brigade has a rolling schedule of inspections of fire safety across all of the hostels.

As for rough sleeping and Housing First, 147 tenancies were created in the Dublin region in 2023. We are currently operating approximately 520 Housing First tenanacies. There was a rise in the number of rough sleepers in November 2023.

Interagency work continues and we have a strong working relationship across statutory and NGO services in Dublin. There is a HSE private emergency accommodation assertive case management team, PACT, and other groups that are listed in this statement. While I will not list all these groups due to the shortage of time, they are all specialist services that will go into the PEAs that were not there previously. There is also an embedded officer from the Department of Social Protection who works closely with the DRHE and it is a welcome initiative. It helps us move people out of emergency accommodation faster through the prioritisation of move-in grants. It also helps the DRHE support vulnerable individuals and rough sleepers who are experiencing income difficulties following, for example, an institutional discharge or other reason. It is a resource to the sector in terms of training knowledge of rights and entitlements and it is useful to the DRHE when accessing and managing complex cases. Tusla funds a small number of child support work positions that work with families in private emergency accommodation. They have also worked with us through the Department's initiative of supportive housing for youth, SHY, which targets people aged 18 to 24. The homeless action plan for the Dublin region has achieved a lot of work in the last two years and we thank our partners in the NGO services, the four local Dublin authorities, the HSE, the Prison Service, the Probation Service, Tusla and City of Dublin Education and Training Board for all their contributions.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank Ms Hayes. There will be an opportunity to speak a little further on some of those issues based on the witnesses' statements. Finally, I invite Mr. Brian Geaney from Cork City Council to read his opening statement.

Mr. Brian Geaney

I thank the Chair and members of the committee for the invitation to attend this joint committee meeting on developments in homelessness provision since the publication of the committee's report in 2021.

Considerable measures have been taken to facilitate families and individuals experiencing homelessness in Cork city. In 2019, Cork City Council took over the management of the homeless persons unit from the Department of Social Protection. From the outset, the strategy was to put in place a centralised, stand-alone office for the service, thereby creating an easily accessible space in a city centre location that would provide for confidentiality and privacy for service users. It was renamed the accommodation placement service, APS, and it provides emergency accommodation, advice and advocacy to homeless individuals and families. Specialist staff provide a streamlined, holistic homeless service, which includes a host of wraparound services for the city and which places a significant focus on prevention. Continual engagement and work with the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, the NGO sector and critical Government agencies by way of weekly, fortnightly and monthly meetings, such as the homeless action team, the local homeless forum, regional consultative forum, ensure core services are delivered to the most vulnerable individuals. The homeless office, in conjunction with local stakeholders through the regional consultative forum, is currently reviewing and drafting the regional homeless action plan, which will be finalised in quarter 2 of this year. This plan will be evidence-based, creating a robust operational framework aimed at meeting current needs and future requirements. Cork City Council operates a trauma-informed approach to service delivery with a focus on harm reduction and a recovery orientation. It is closely aligned with the HSE Cork-Kerry social inclusion team together with the key homeless service providers in the city. Staff are continually supported in their roles and the promotion of staff well-being, as well as the enhancement of skill sets, is facilitated.

On housing delivery, Cork City Council, with the continued support of Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and in partnership with the approved housing body, AHB, sector, has focused significant effort and resources to substantially increase the level of social housing supply across the city in recent years utilising key initiatives such as the competitive dialogue procurement processes to create a robust pipeline of new housing units. This uplift and sustained increase in supply provides significant opportunities to tackle the wider homeless challenge. Between 2016 and 2022, Cork City Council delivered 3,145 new social homes across Cork city and the city council is on track to exceed the 2022 to 2026 target of just under 4,000 homes. As part of this housing action plan, key programmes such as "repair and lease" are being utilised to good effect, thereby helping deliver high quality one and two-bedroom units in the city centre for those exiting or being prevented from entering homelessness. Twelve units have been delivered under this programme to date, with an expected delivery of 25 in 2024.

While 23% of all housing allocations in Cork city went to homeless families and individuals in 2023, which is a significant proportion, Cork City Council is acutely aware of the need to limit the use of emergency accommodation. It should be used primarily for emergencies and be short-term in nature. While 145 families were placed in emergency accommodation in 2023, by the end of January 2024, 55 families were accommodated in an emergency accommodation setting in the city. This proves that the council's focus on preventions and exits to longer-term and more suitable accommodation is crucial to limiting this reliance. Over the past six years, there has been a reduction of 44% in families experiencing homelessness in Cork city. While there are 55 families in emergency accommodation, a total 184 households exited emergency accommodation in 2023. The projected target for quarter 1 of 2024 of households exiting emergency accommodation is 80, which is up from 25 compared with the same quarter last year. The council will continue to focus its efforts to reduce homeless family numbers throughout 2024. Cork City Council has prevented a total of 264 households from entering homelessness in 2023.

This represents a 156% increase in preventions on the previous year. This was achieved due to homelessness preventions via increased housing allocations and the roll-out of tenants in situ scheme together with homeless HAP. A total of 129 tenant in situ acquisitions have been secured since the programme commenced in April 2023 and this has been of significant assistance in preventing homelessness across the city. The APS has received a total of 158 compliant notices of termination in 2023 with a further 42 received to date in 2024, which account for notices of terminations to the end of the year.

While the number of single individuals in Cork has increased year on year since 2020, this number has stabilised in the past 12 months. The number of single individuals in homeless services at the end of 2023 was 399. Single individuals often face additional challenges when securing an exit from homelessness given the limited supply of one-bedroom properties, the availability of rental properties and in some cases the complexities involved and the levels of support required to effectively sustain tenancies. The expansion and further development of the Housing First programme has been of significant assistance in tackling rough sleeper numbers in the city and other existing support settings, such as our youth homeless facilities in Cork Foyer, Bishopsgrove and Wellsprings provided an invaluable service to these vulnerable cohorts.

An Cathaoirleach

I apologise to Mr. Geaney for having to interrupt him. We will return to some of those other aspects he has highlighted in his opening statement, as I am sure some of the questions from members will also do. I am going to go to the members now and we will have five-minute slots, which is the only way we can fit everybody in. If we could have direct questions and answers, we will get a lot more done.

Senator Mary Fitzpatrick

I thank the witnesses for attending today. The number of 13, 531 people in emergency accommodation is one that haunts us all and I thank the witnesses, their staff and everybody who works in their organisations for the work they do every day to try to prevent homelessness and to help people exit homelessness.

At the outset, I acknowledge the significant progress they have been able to document in respect of last year. It is encouraging to see a significant increase in the number of people exiting homelessness and being prevented from entering homelessness. The 25% increase in preventions is welcome and the 90% in quarter 4 is really encouraging and hopefully that is going to continue through the next year. It is very important that it does.

I thank the Senator for the questions. To clarify, the Department's role is really around policy and funding. Consequently, the location and how services are delivered are matters for the local authorities. Local authorities are structured on a regional level and for each region there is a management group with the local authority, the HSE and other stakeholders. It is a matter for that management group to determine how the services will be provided and who will deliver them. One of the challenges in some areas, and Ms Hayes can elaborate on this, has been getting the NGOs to open additional services and supported temporary accommodations, STAs, and that has probably led us to more private emergency accommodation rather than NGO-led services. In response to that challenge, it is about making sure we put the supports into that PEA. Ms Hayes and her team have done a huge amount of work to make sure that there are supports there. The HSE similarly needs to make sure that we have in-reach supports going in to the PEA in order that we are providing similar levels of supports and services that go into the STAs.

On the concentration in Dublin city, again, it is a matter for the local authority, as the housing authority and the planning authority, to determine where those services will be located. Sometimes that is around the availability of properties, where can we access properties and where can we locate service providers. The Department does not have a role in determining where a service would be located but we are aware of concern in respect of the concentration around the Gardiner Street area and in particular around the north-east inner city. That is something that the DRHE will be looking at.

Senator Mary Fitzpatrick

Would the Department not have a role though-----

An Cathaoirleach

I apologise to Senator Fitzpatrick but I have to move on to get everybody in. I will bring in Deputy Gould next.

Senator Mary Fitzpatrick took the Chair.

Deputy Thomas Gould

I know of some situations where landlords do not want to take up the tenant in situ option. Even though the witnesses are trying to buy the house, the landlord does not want to sell it. How many refusals or things like that have we got? I apologise to the Chair, as I have to go to a vote. Can I follow up with my section later?

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Senator Mary Fitzpatrick)

You can Deputy.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Senator Mary Fitzpatrick)

Senator Moynihan, I am going to be lenient with you, timewise.

Senator Rebecca Moynihan

I thank the Chair. I am not sure I will have enough questions for the length of time everyone will be gone for. I would like to thank the witnesses for coming in and making the presentations and for the work that you do, particularly the Dublin Region Homeless Executive. My office is practically in weekly contact with the Dublin Region Homeless Executive and it can be very good and very responsive. Sometimes, however, people will fall through the cracks. I am thinking in particular of single men. The Dublin Region Homeless Executive is amazing when it comes to dealing with families.

It is brilliant.

I dealt with a situation, however, where somebody was told to present to a particular hostel a couple of weeks ago. When he presented to the hostel, he was very vulnerable. He was much older and was not used to being homeless or being in hostel accommodation. He had a relationship breakdown and ended up in the system in that way. He was turned away from the hostel and spent the night ringing around and he got in touch with my office. In a situation like that, how can we communicate with particular hostels about vulnerable people who want to go into the hostel? Is guidance given? Is there an emergency number for the Dublin Region Homeless Executive when something like that happens and somebody is stuck in that situation? He could not get in contact with anybody at that stage. Perhaps I could have an answer on that point.

Ms Mary Hayes

It is hard for me to answer on a specific case but I will talk about what is generally the issue. Most people are booked in for the service. If someone presents to us during the day, a booking is made and that booking should show on both sides, that is, it shows on the NGO side or private emergency accommodation side and on our system. I am not doubting for a second that a glitch or something like that happened. There is an emergency number, 1800 707 707, that is available until 10 p.m. and the Dublin Simon outreach team is there for any emergencies after that time. That situation is pretty exceptional and it would not be the most usual thing that we would hear.

Senator Rebecca Moynihan

Absolutely. We ended up getting him sorted with longer-term accommodation but he was refused by the hostel person on that particular night. Those things can sometimes happen when people are using private hostels. How many of the Dublin Region Homeless Executive hostels are run by private companies or have private security involved in them?

Ms Mary Hayes

With regard to the progress on Housing First, it was based on a policy document from 2009 and was meant to provide Housing First tenancies and wraparound services. Has that all but been abandoned? I do not mean it has been completely abandoned but the Dublin Region Homeless Executive is obviously under huge day-to-day pressure and it is very difficult to think in a more long-term or strategic way. I do not mean that as a criticism of those present and I know the lengths Mr. Durkan and Ms Hayes have gone to in order to find beds for people on my behalf. However, is the service under so much pressure at the moment that Housing First and the wraparound services have almost been put to the back seat?

Ms Mary Hayes

I will let Mr. Durkan answer on Housing First but I would say to the Senator that it is approximately 66% in terms of one-bedroom need over families. I will let Mr. Durkan answer on Housing First.

Mr. John Durkan

Apparently, we have 520 Housing First tenancies in Dublin. In itself, as a day-to-day piece, it is huge. The figure has increased on last year. In Dublin city, we reached our target of 80 new Housing First tenancies within a given year. Notwithstanding the complexities that come with that cohort or, indeed, sometimes tenancy breakdown, it is a remarkable achievement in terms of the progress in helping us with rough sleeping and single adult homelessness in emergency accommodation.

Senator Rebecca Moynihan

That is interesting. I thank Ms Hayes and Mr. Durkan.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Senator Mary Fitzpatrick)

Ms Hayes mentioned the presentations and those who are presenting, such as that family reunification example. What proportion of the total number of 13,000 are such cases? I ask because if it is a family of ten and it is a reunification situation, I assume those people do not have a live social housing application. Do they?

Ms Mary Hayes

I ask Mr. Kelly to return to the issue of the over-concentration in Dublin Central for a moment. I appreciate that local authorities are independent bodies, having been a member myself and fully respecting of their authority. It is really important that the Government at a national level does not interfere with the operation of the local authorities. However, this committee believes that the Department can play a significant role in terms of policy and funding in addressing what is a real issue in Dublin Central. It is probably a unique situation in the country. A total of 70% of all of the emergency accommodation is in Dublin with 70% of that is in Dublin Central. For the individuals who are being accommodated in that accommodation, it is short term. It is temporary. It is not the type of accommodation that lends itself to having a proper home life. We believe as a committee that the Department take a lead role in driving that, particularly through the committee within the Department that has all of the stakeholders involved. I would appreciate it if Mr. Kelly would take that on board. When we return to this subject in the future, we definitely want to see some progress on that.

Deputy Gould has returned. I will restore the Deputy his time. I think he had approximately three minutes.

Deputy Thomas Gould

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan

The complaint I have received is that people are sleeping rough in the vicinity of Mount Street who are the direct responsibility of the DRHE and there has not been sufficient, or any, engagement from the outreach team. That is why I was asking that question.

Finally, on the rough sleeper count, there was an issue in November 2022 when the outreach team counted 180 people sleeping rough on the streets of Dublin and the official report of the rough sleeper count was 91 people. What was the reason for the difference between what the outreach team was counting and that figure? Can the DRHE explain the methodology?

Ms Mary Hayes

It is important to understand the way the rough sleeper count is constructed. The point for us is that we are trying to identify the people we need to work with; the people who need emergency accommodation. We do the count to plan the numbers who would take up emergency accommodation if it was available - those who are part of the Housing First approach. When we see repeat people who are out, the chronic people who will not take up a bed or who we see on repeated counts, they automatically become part of our cohort for Housing First. That is why we do rough sleeper counts and that is what underpins the rationale of it. Then there is the Simon number. Those numbers are reconciled. The Simon outreach team meets with our research team and our outreach workers. We would say, for instance, that we had seen "Mary Hayes" and she is in this spot every day. When the Simon outreach worker saw the person they were bedded down and could not identify them and they were recorded as a “do not identify”. That might be recorded as an additional person but there is a reconciliation exercise to rule out if we know nothing about that and if there is a chance or likelihood that that person could be "Mary Hayes" who is counted elsewhere on the count. That is an example of someone who might be ruled out.

An Cathaoirleach

I am sorry to interrupt Ms Hayes but I must move on now. That is the end of that slot. Senator Cummins is next and has five minutes.

Senator John Cummins

I speak to families who have children with special needs or additional needs. For them to commute long distances, and for any child to commute a long distance, can be very distressing. We speak about trauma. The witnesses spoke about having a trauma-informed approach when dealing with families and people entering homelessness. Is this something they are building on? I know from myself and my staff, and where I was when I became a TD four years ago and when I was a councillor, the level of homelessness is different now.

I know of a family that is being contacted and is overstaying. There are eight members of the family and they are concerned they will be split up if they go into emergency accommodation. We know there is a shortage of four-bedroom and five-bedroom accommodation. Is this something the witnesses can deal with? The family I mentioned is overstaying because it cannot access suitable emergency accommodation.

Mr. Niall Ó Donnabháin

It is similar to the historical one-bedroom accommodation provision issue. Four-bedroom accommodation is limited, as is accommodation with more than four bedrooms. We are working on the delivery side to ensure more of a percentage is allocated towards four-bedroom accommodation for the cohort of larger families. To be fair, this is one of our-----

Deputy Thomas Gould

How many does Cork City Council have available now? Is there a figure it tries to get each month?

Mr. Niall Ó Donnabháin

It is not a case of having a figure every month. It is about trying to isolate, relative to the actual numbers in the 55 families, what their requirements and needs are and then allocating accordingly. The truth of it is that as quickly as we possibly can, we identify units for families in emergency accommodation.

Deputy Thomas Gould

I want to go back to the repair and lease scheme. It has gone from €60,000 to €80,000. The numbers in Cork are quite small. Is this because it is more expensive in Cork to repair and lease these properties? Excellent work was done in Waterford and the people there should be commended on it. Why has this not been done in Cork? Is it because Cork is more expensive? What is the reason?

Mr. Brian Geaney

There is probably a more buoyant rental market in Cork. That is the issue in Cork city.

Deputy Joe Flaherty

I have a technical question for the Department. I am aware of a young person who presented to the homeless services in Westmeath. This person has been battling homelessness for their entire adult life and all the services and supports they accessed were in Longford. Longford local authority cannot put the person in emergency accommodation and has referred them back to Westmeath. Could there be a simple fix to make it easier for people so that once they register with homeless services they can access them through any local authority?

Mr. David Kelly

It may be that there is no accommodation or capacity in that particular location. The authorities in the midlands region work together to look at where services are required, where demand is and where appropriate services can be provided. I do not know the specifics of the case but it would be a matter for the local authority to determine where services are located. It could be the case that it is a capacity issue in a particular location.

Deputy Joe Flaherty

The young man was told by Longford County Council that he came through Westmeath County Council first and needs to go back there. Is this a rule? If so, can we change it? Is it a misinterpretation?

Mr. David Kelly

We can deal with this after the meeting and make an inquiry.

Deputy Joe Flaherty

I will send Mr. Kelly the details of the case.

I note that we do not have a witness who has deep knowledge of the workings of homelessness in Longford. Homelessness is happening throughout the country and it is not purely an urban problem. I was interested to hear the points made on four-bedroom accommodation. The homelessness situation, particularly in rural Ireland, involves either single male adults or larger families. I am aware of a family at present with six children. Where does the local authority go with them? Has there been the sea change we need in the Department? Longford will have several three-bedroom and two-bedroom units in new developments but I am not seeing four-bedroom and five-bedroom accommodation. Has it been a policy in the Department not to do this? When will we see this change?

Mr. David Kelly

One of the measures in Housing for All is to get down and look at the delivery blend in each local authority. In 2021 and 2022 each local authority prepared a housing delivery action plan which set out the numbers of one-bedroom, two-bedroom, three-bedroom and four-bedroom houses. In some cases they have not come on stream yet so the Department supports an acquisition, either by a local authority or through an approved housing body, using the capital assistance scheme. This has been working quite successfully, perhaps not to the extent that we need but it is providing solutions.

Deputy Joe Flaherty

When families present as homeless and are going between the houses of relatives, does the Department set a time limit within which the housing needs of the family must be resolved?

Mr. David Kelly

I want to make a distinction. Local authorities are responsible for the administration of the service. When a family presents to a local authority, it responds very quickly to provide accommodation and supports. As Ms Hayes mentioned earlier, most families move from emergency accommodation to housing more quickly than single adults. The report on the fourth quarter shows the statistics on this. Most families move out within a 12-month period. Obviously this is still a long time and we would like it to be quicker.

The increased delivery of housing will support quicker exists but the actual assessment and placement will be a matter for the local authority.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank Deputy for sticking to time. I will move to Deputy Wynne who has five minutes. That will bring us up to the completion of this part of the meeting.

Deputy Violet-Anne Wynne

I thank the Cathaoirleach for letting me in as a non-member of the committee. My questions are to the departmental officials. I want to focus on hidden homelessness in Ireland. A Red C poll was conducted for the Simon Communities last year which found one in four people either experienced it personally themselves or know someone who has experienced hidden homelessness. Myself and my family, a family of eight, has fallen into that category. I have raised it with the Minister on a number of occasions along with the definition we use of homelessness and how the numbers are collected and collated. The homelessness figure we hear every day, of 30,531, including more than 4,000 children, only covers those who are accessing emergency accommodation. Does the Department plan to address that shortfall and ensure there is a truer reality of hidden homelessness especially in political discourse? It is a major obstacle in being able to obtain solutions.

My second question is on emergency accommodation and capacity in local authorities. I have raised this with my local authority in County Clare. It is the issue of being able to find and source accommodation units for the authority. It has cited competition as having placed huge pressure on its ability to secure additional units recently. Is this something that is being found across the State or is it more that rural communities are hampered with this?

Finally, with the independent inspectorate, does the Department differentiate between those who have failed an inspection? Is it categorising those failures between those that are outsourced or managed by the local authority directly?

Mr. John Durkan

The focus on emergency accommodation in the Dublin Regional Housing Executive has been ongoing for the past four years. The independent inspectorate was the last piece of the jigsaw following Dublin Fire Brigade doing a series of scheduled inspections. We have not had any failures or negativity at that level to warrant a decision or discussion like that. The other thing is that all our independent inspections are on our website so it is very clear the type of issues that the independent inspector is reporting on.

Finding and sourcing emergency accommodation is an ongoing challenge. It has been slightly intensified in the past two years with the onset of the humanitarian crisis. Our colleagues in IPAS and the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth are looking for the same accommodation solutions are we are around the country. That is a reality. The accommodation tender and the support of the Department means that where any suitable property or facility has come on board in recent years, we have acted swiftly and secured it. So far, we are keeping our heads above water but that situation could change in a matter of weeks.

Mr. David Kelly

The Deputy is correct that the homelessness figures record people in State-funded emergency accommodation. On people in overcrowded, or what is sometimes referred to as hidden homelessness, and discourse, the summary of social housing needs assessment is published every year. That records details of people with unmet social housing need and it is a much higher number. I think the latest one published was for November 2022. I think 2023 will be published shortly. There was approximately 60,000 households on the social housing list. That is people with an unmet social housing need. Obviously people who are in homelessness are a subset of that but that category is a much larger number of people. It would include people in overcrowded accommodation. There would be a detailed breakdown. The two reports are distinct but the information is there between the two reports.

An Cathaoirleach

We have reached the end of this meeting. I thank Mr. Kelly, Ms Hayes and Mr. Geaney for being with us today. It is an incredibly challenging sector that they work in. On behalf of the committee, I thank them for taking time out to be with us here today to help us get a better understanding of it and also to bring back an acknowledgement and I also thank all the people who work for them in those very difficult circumstances through local authorities, etc.

For anyone listening in now, we will take the second half of the meeting with the voluntary sector groups after we suspend for five minutes.

Sitting suspended at 3.46 p.m. and resumed at 3.56 p.m.

An Cathaoirleach

Everyone is welcome back. I do not know if the witnesses had a chance to listen to the session we have just held with the Dublin Homeless Regional Executive, the Department and Cork City Council. We are now joined by Seán Moynihan, Gráinne Loughran and Frank Dillon from ALONE; Louise Bayliss, Carly Bailey and Marcella Stakem from the National One Parent Family Alliance; Dermot Kavanagh, Kerry Brennan and Paul Sheehan from Cork Simon; and Richard Guiney and Gerard Farrell from Dublin Town. They are all very welcome. I thank them for their attendance and for the opening statements and briefing documents they sent us in advance.

I will just read a quick note on privilege before we begin. I remind members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the place where the Parliament has chosen to sit, namely, Leinster House, to participate in public meetings. Witnesses attending in the committee room are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the contributions they make to today's meetings. This means they have an absolute defence against any defamation action for anything they say at the meeting. Both members and witnesses are expected not to abuse the privilege they enjoy and it is my duty, as Chair, to ensure this privilege is not abused. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction. We have no members attending remotely so I will skip over the next piece.

Members and witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. The opening statements the witnesses have sent us will be published on the committee website after this meeting.

We have four opening statements. I ask witnesses to keep those opening statements to five minutes. We will then go to members, who will have five minutes to include both questions and answers. Direct questions directed to a specific witness and direct answers will help us to proceed in a timely manner. I will call on ALONE, the National One Parent Family Alliance, Cork Simon and Dublin Town in that order. I believe Mr. Moynihan is to make an opening statement on behalf of ALONE.

Mr. Seán Moynihan

I thank the Chair and committee members for inviting us here today. In 2023, ALONE provided support to more than 36,000 older people, 12,000 of whom were new to our service. Support with housing issues was the highest area of need. We provided 535 interventions to support older people who were homeless or at risk of homelessness. Homelessness and housing issues among older people has been steadily increasing for the past ten years. The number accessing emergency accommodation does not include older people experiencing a housing crisis who have received notices to quit and are struggling to find somewhere new, those who are staying on friends’ sofas, those sleeping in cars or caravans and those living in cheaper rental accommodation in fear of a notice to quit, all of whom we are seeing in ALONE.

We are sure the members present have seen older people in similar situations through their constituency work. As well as the increases in homelessness we are seeing, the number of older people privately renting has increased, the number of older people in need of local authority housing has increased, homeownership rates are dropping, and homeownership in retirement is not a guarantee. The ESRI reckons that only 65% of current 35- to 44-year-olds will own a house on retirement while the rate of older people living alone in mortgage arrears is also increasing. This is against the backdrop of Ireland as one of the most rapidly ageing EU member states, with a pension system based around homeownership, and without the culture of provision of sheltered housing for older people in other jurisdictions. This all means we will see more homelessness among older people unless we can decide who will pay the rent when they retire.

The population figures indicate that within the next 20 years we will need at least double the levels of social housing suitable for older people. We, in ALONE, are concerned that not enough is being done to prevent increasing levels of homelessness among older people and a worsening crisis in the coming years.

There are more than 2,000 people aged over 70 on the social housing waiting list, which is the highest figure on record. Despite that, several local authorities do not include targets for the development of housing for older people in their housing development action plans. This is not entirely the fault of all local authorities and some local authorities are doing better in this regard. However, there is a lack of proactive policy at a national level for housing delivery for older people whereas local authorities are the only hope for older people for safety and the security of tenure.

The market will not provide housing for older people who do not have the income profile it seeks or requires and may also need additional requirements in design and quality. This is outlined in the action plans themselves. One council’s action plan notes: "The market is not constructing specifically designed accessible units to Universal Design standards so accessible units will be difficult to obtain."

Older people dependent on pensions and in a housing crisis do not present a lucrative investment opportunity for developers and, therefore, housing will not be independently developed for them unless developers are incentivised or regulated to do so. Without significant changes, we cannot depend on social housing development via turnkey and Part V. We believe that we need at least 25% of social housing to be developed and ring-fenced for older people to prevent homelessness among older people now and in the future. This is approximately 40,000 users.

We await the commitment to review the capital assistance scheme, CAS, as per the joint policy statements for housing options for older people. In 2022, just 176 age-friendly homes were delivered under CAS nationwide which is less than six houses per local authority. We need to create future plans for the development of a funding mechanism for housing with support models and include targets within local authority development plans. This and all our proposals will provide housing for both young and old, and increase the housing stock for all.

In respect of challenges being experienced by older renters, we must recognise that increasing numbers of older renters are particularly at risk of homelessness. Our report with Threshold is entitled Double Deficit: Older and Ageing Persons in the Irish Private Rental Sector and was published last May. One of the conclusions of the report was that Ireland’s private rental sector is not an appropriate tenure choice for older people. By and large it is not affordable, accessible, suitable or secure. For this report, older people told us, “Landlords are not interested in me, they won’t accept HAP, they’re not willing to take a chance on a pensioner.”

We ask one thing today. How will a 45-year-old renter pay rent on retirement, or will they be able to afford to retire? We still await the publication of the committed to review of the rental sector that might form some part of the answer and identify parts of the problem that need to be resolved.

To conclude, homelessness and housing is a terrible challenge no matter what age a person is but it is at its severest when a person is in his or her 70s, 80s and beyond with health difficulties, disability or frailty. We cannot address homelessness among older people without addressing the underlying issues of social housing delivery and the provision of appropriate supports and security in the private rental sector. We need the following actions to be progressed if we are to prevent a further homelessness crisis: the ring-fencing of 25% of social housing for older people; a review and update of the CAS; publication of the review of the private rental sector; a review and to complete the actions outstanding from the policy statements entitled the Housing Options for Our Ageing Population; and to complete the actions recommended in our report, Double Deficit.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank Mr. Moynihan and invite Ms Bayliss to make her statement on behalf of the National One Parent Family Alliance.

Ms Louise Bayliss

I thank the Chairman and committee for the opportunity to discuss the current homeless crisis and the impact on one-parent families.

The National One Parent Family Alliance is an alliance of nine member organisations that collaborate on issues for one-parent families. Our members include: Barnardos, Children’s Rights Alliance, the National Forum for Family Resource Centres, Focus Ireland, the National Women’s Council, One Family, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, SPARK and Treoir.

I represent Focus Ireland. I am joined by Ms Carly Bailey, policy officer with One Family and Ms Marcella Stakem, research and policy office, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul. Since the publication of the last report by this committee, the situation has deteriorated. Family homelessness has increased by 210% since April 2021. At that time, there were 925 families in emergency accommodation. The latest published figures in January 2024 shows that this has increased to 1,940 families. During the same period child, homelessness increased by 184% from 2,193 children in emergency accommodation in April 2021 to 4,027 in January 2024. We are also concerned about the impact on lone parents. At the last census, 17% of families are headed by a lone parent yet 56% of all families living in emergency accommodation are one-parent families, and the vast majority of those are headed by women. Since June of last year, and every month consistently, there have been over 1,000 lone parents and their children living in emergency accommodation every month.

All homelessness is fundamentally wrong but homelessness is particularly devastating for families and children. It causes trauma, contributes to malnutrition and carries lifelong adverse outcomes for children. Families who are homeless have different needs to single people. They need child care, child support workers, supports with schooling, child care nutrition and links to schools. Under international law, the State has obligations to protect the rights of the child, which should be reflected in the urgency to end child homelessness.

One-parent families have an even more difficult experience in emergency accommodation. They are often placed in accommodation away from their children’s schools and existing support structures. As there is only one adult to bring children to school, a parent who is working may not be able to remain in employment. Visitors are often not allowed in the accommodation so parents who work irregular hours cannot have a childminder and are again at risk of losing their job.

There is an overreliance on the private rental sector to exit homelessness, particularly for families who are on the housing list a short time. The documented contraction of supply in the private rental market, over the past number of years, is only beginning to recover meaning that exit pathways are challenging currently. This is more difficult for one-parent families. Many landlords require work references. When a lone parent loses their job because of the barriers they face in emergency accommodation, this has a knock-on effect of exposing them to the risk of remaining in such accommodation for a longer time. It is also difficult to attend property viewings with children, and so they are at further disadvantage of securing a property in the private rental sector. While the situation is bleak, it is not hopeless. We know that emergency measures during Covid had a positive outcome in reducing homelessness, particularly for families. There are solutions and we know that preventative measures are increasingly preventing families from becoming homeless.

NOPFA wants families in emergency accommodation to be better supported to reduce trauma and prevent intergenerational homelessness, and to exit homelessness as quickly as possible. Therefore, we call for four important actions. First, for the family homeless prevention subgroup to be reconvened as part of the National Homeless Action Committee and to develop a family homeless action plan. This plan must include targeted actions to prevent and address homeless among one-parent families. The plan should have additional oversight from the child and well-being programme office under its family homeless prevention strand, and have a significant focus on early intervention and prevention. Second, we call for all children in emergency accommodation to have access to a child support worker. Third, we want a legal obligation to be placed on local authorities to ensure the best interest of the child is prioritised when families present as homeless. Fourth, we want to ensure that the difficulties facing parents to access the national childcare scheme sponsorship places are reviewed as a matter of priority. This is essential for both the well-being of the child and to support lone parents to remain in employment.

My colleagues and I are happy to answer any questions members may have.

An Cathaoirleach

I now invite Dr. Kavanagh to make his opening statement.

Dr. Dermot Kavanagh

I thank the committee for the invitation to present to it today. I am chief executive of Cork Simon Community and I am accompanied by my colleagues Kerry Brennan, director of services, and Paul Sheehan, head of campaigns and communications. Last year, Cork Simon Community supported just under 1,500 people experiencing or at risk of homelessness. Most of our services are geared towards those facing the greatest barriers to housing and social inclusion.

There has been some progress on homelessness. In the south west region, the number of exits from homeless services increased by 9% last year while the number of adults prevented from entering homelessness rose by 65% compared to 2022. Our south west region Housing First service, which we deliver in partnership with Focus Ireland, the city council and the HSE, currently provides homes for 81 people in the region with a housing retention rate approaching 90%. Without this service, an additional 81 emergency beds would without doubt be needed for these tenants.

Our rapid rehousing and tenancy sustainment teams support another 95 formerly homeless people in their own homes, most of whom were long-term homeless and have complex support needs. We have also established a pilot shelter diversion project, which in its first six months of operation has assisted 28 people to avoid stays in emergency accommodation. This has reduced rough sleeping by an average of five per night in Cork city. Our employment and training service continues to provide a pathway to education, training and employment for people experiencing homelessness. A total of 221 people were supported in 2023 with 48 now in work.

There is increased pressure on services. Notwithstanding what I have just said, at both national and regional level, the overall situation is even more stark than it was at the time the committee's original report was published. The number of people in homeless emergency accommodation across the country has increased from 8,060 in March 2021 to 13,531 currently - an increase of 58%. In the south west region, the number has gone up from 499 to 767, which is an increase of 54%.

In Cork Simon, we are busier than ever. Last year, there were on average 75 people per night in our shelter and nightlight emergency accommodation services compared to 64 the previous year. A total of 540 people availed of our emergency accommodation in 2023. The average stay in 2023 was 51 nights per person compared to 44 in 2022. The longer people stay in emergency accommodation, the fewer beds are available for persons who are newly homeless. People who are long-term homeless stayed an average of 227 nights each and accounted for 56% of bed nights. If all the long-term homeless people were housed tomorrow, it would free up 42 beds, which would be more than sufficient to end the need to sleep rough in Cork city.

Rough sleeping in Cork city has also increased markedly. Cork City Council’s housing progress report for December 2023 shows an 82% rise in the number of people noted as sleeping rough compared to one year earlier and indeed Cork Simon’s outreach team met an average of 15 people bedded down on our streets each night in 2023 compared to just six the previous year.

The complexity of need is greater than ever. We saw 70 overdoses in 2023 compared to 52 the previous year - up 35% - and an increase of one quarter in the number of incidents relating to medical emergencies, overdoses and self-harm increase. The HSE in Cork has been proactive in ensuring methadone is easily available for people experiencing homelessness. It has also played an excellent role in coordinating the citywide response to the ongoing issue of nitazine-related overdoses and is supporting a pilot project relating to hepatitis C treatment. Notwithstanding all that, 17 people availing of our services died in 2023. Such deaths are often related to drugs, alcohol or chronic ill health and this is linked in term to the experience of trauma. Not surprisingly, the average age of death was 12 years older for those now living in their own home with ongoing support than for those in emergency accommodation or on the streets.

The increased service pressures have been accompanied by increased financial pressures and a recruitment and retention crisis. We were very grateful to receive additional support from the local authorities and the HSE last year and we very much welcome the current review of section 10 funding as there remains an urgent need to address what has been an ever-growing gap between costs of services and the statutory funding for such critical services. We would achieve nothing without our very committed and skilled staff team. In recent times, cost-of-living pressures have meant that many have left to take up better paid roles in the statutory sector and elsewhere. The recent WRC agreement aimed at restoring the link between statutory sector pay and pay in the voluntary sector is welcome but poses significant challenges for organisations like ours where statutory funding makes up just over half of our total income.

Partnership is essential to progress. We engage with the local authorities and the HSE in the search to find solutions and new approaches. The clear commitment of officials in these statutory bodies to addressing this growing crisis is a source of encouragement for the future.

Regarding recommendations for Housing First, we believe two-bed accommodation should be allowed in situations where no one-bed units are available. With rents in Cork now more than 20% higher than they were in Dublin when the 50% homeless HAP uplift was put in place in 2016, it is now essential this level of uplift is made available nationwide. With regard to HIQA, we believe that good regulation and an effective inspections regime are essential. However, service providers must be resourced to meet the standards rightly demanded by the State. We agree that more needs to be done to ensure an adequate supply of emergency accommodation but, again, the key to reducing demand is to provide housing with support as necessary, especially for people who are long-term homeless.

In addition to the above, we would welcome the following measures: the increased allocation of social housing to the long-term homeless; dedicated housing with support for homeless people leaving residential addiction treatment; further development of incentives and initiatives to address the vacancy rate; more measures to reduce institutional-style living arrangements, including the provision of shared housing initiatives as an alternative to shelter and bed and breakfast-style accommodation; implementation of the Simon homeless prevention Bill; and innovations in prevention, including the wider roll-out of shelter-based diversion services across the country.

An Cathaoirleach

I invite Mr. Guiney to make his opening statement.

Mr. Richard Guiney

We thank the committee for extending an invite to us to participate in this important conversation. By way of background, Dublin Town is Dublin city centre’s business improvement district. Our role is to promote businesses in our district between St. Stephen’s Green and Parnell Street, which is the city's commercial core. In 2023, the city welcomed a daily average of 237,000 people. All aspects of life and society are reflected on the city’s streets. This includes social challenges such as homelessness, drug dependence and challenging personal behaviour. These issues can and do lead to a feeling of unease amongst the general public and are reflected in poor perceptions of personal safety reported by many who visit the city.

Dublin Town has always sought to engage proactively in addressing issues that can cause concern among city visitors. We support professional bodies in the provision of services to vulnerable members of society. We were active participants in the Better City For All group, which reported in 2012, and are again engaged in the more recent iteration of this group. The work of the Better City For All process aims to promote good practice in the management of social challenges leading to better outcomes for vulnerable members of society and also the wider community that uses and frequents Dublin City centre.

Our research and observations of city life show us that there are shortcomings in how we as a society provide necessary supports for those in need. This is sub-optimal not just for the people in receipt of services but for the wider community. There is a heavy concentration of social services provided within the city centre, particularly on the city’s north side. There are districts of 250 m radius in which up to 1,000 vulnerable people are being accommodated. There are locations where we understand more than 300 people, who have been asked to leave other accommodation, are now being housed. This is inconsistent with best practice and is at variance to the findings of the Better City For All report in 2012. This heavy concentration of service provision is contributing to poor outcomes for those in receipt of services, mitigates against addressing underlying reasons for personal challenges and facilitates drug markets. This in turn affects perceptions of personal safety among the general public. Dublin Town believes supports provided to the most vulnerable should be provided in a holistic and compassionate manner in which the symptoms of homelessness as well as the underlying reasons for personal challenges are addressed.

The effectiveness of certain supports to those experiencing homelessness in Dublin city centre was the subject of a professional report by Mary Higgins in August 2021 for the Dublin Region Homeless Executive. I will outline some of the details in it. While respecting the bona fides of people volunteering their time, effort and resources for the benefit of others, the report addresses concerns that have arisen with aspects of on-street supports. The report also provides concrete recommendations as to how these concerns could be addressed. We further note that these findings chime with a similar study undertaken in the UK in 2005.

The report notes that "the groups do not have the skills or experience to engage with people who are homeless, and there are examples of their interventions undermining the work of mainstream providers and possibly supporting people to remain on or return to the streets". In addition, the report states that:

The model of on-street services where people queue for food and eat in full public view on the main streets of the city is inherently undignified and is potentially unsafe. No attention is paid to nutritional needs or food safety and the crowds that gather at the food stalls are thought to attract drug dealing and other unsavory activity, putting people who are vulnerable at risk.

It continues:

Evidence suggests that the majority of on-street services are not formally constituted, are not registered as charities, do not hold trading licenses (a prerequisite of registration with the HSE EHO) and are not compliant with food safety and other relevant regulatory requirements. It is possible that they are not aware of these requirements or that they apply to them.

It states "There is failure individually and collectively on the part of the responsible official bodies to protect the welfare and safety [of] members of the public and people who are homeless and vulnerable by implementing and enforcing existing regulations in relation to charities, food safety [and] services for people who are homeless." Dublin Town agrees with the key recommendations emanating from the report, namely, to:

Introduce a system of licensing, inspection, and enforcement for all services working with people who are homeless and ensure that unlicensed service cannot operate. Licensing will give assurance to people who are homeless and to members of the public about the services and ensure consistency in their practice.

The Higgins report also refers to other reports on homeless services in Dublin city, noting that the most recent report includes, "The key recommendation is for a more strategic approach be taken to the planning and management of Day Services, through the establishment of 'hubs' that would provide for central coordination to reduce duplication of effort and to enhance impact." Dublin Town engages extensively with the DRHE and its outreach team. The work conducted by this team is exemplary. We are of the view that it could benefit from additional personnel. We believe additional personnel would be likely to have significant positive outcomes for those experiencing homelessness and the wider community.

Dublin Town has concerns with the provision of tents and sleeping bags at a time when there are sufficient beds in the system for all people who need them. We do not believe that people should be encouraged to sleep rough on the city streets. We believe that it must be inherently safer to be in a secure, managed and warm environment with access to food and hygiene facilities than to sleep on the streets, unprotected and exposed to the elements.

We hope that our insights and experiences will be of interest to the committee. We would welcome members' observations and will seek to answer any questions arising.

An Cathaoirleach

The witnesses' opening statements will be put up on our website after the meeting, so anything they did not get to is there for viewing. Members can ask further on them.

As we are short on time, I ask members to ask direct questions of particular people. That would probably help.

Deputy Joe Flaherty

I thank all the groups for coming in. We greatly appreciate the work and heavy lifting that they are doing. I am very familiar with the work of Mr. Moynihan and ALONE. Over the last two years, a significant worry has been the emergence of older people coming into emergency accommodation and homelessness. In many instances, it is due to a breakdown in relationships. Given the perspective of the witnesses from ALONE, we need to see a dynamic change in how we address homelessness. Normally, we associate homelessness with young people but particularly in rural Ireland, I am seeing that it is bringing many psychological issues and mental health issues too. Would it be fair to say that we need to reconfigure how we deal with homelessness for older people?

Mr. Seán Moynihan

With an ageing population, we need to look at the housing needs of older people. We have a situation, since the last census, of an 83% increase of over-65s renting. Obviously, in old age, most people need safety and security and the private rented sector just does not provide that. Some 2,000 people are on the social housing waiting list, which is the highest it has ever been, and it is rising. It is the only age group that is rising radically. The challenge here is that this is really only the thin end of the wedge. As one goes back to the over-45s and over-55s, one sees more and more people who are going to retire into private rented accommodation. How will that be managed? How will people cope? How will they pay the rent? We all know that when you retire, there is a huge drop in your income, no matter what scenario you are in. Regardless of anything, we will all face physical frailty or health challenges at some stage in our life, which means that the private rental model just does not provide the necessary safety and security.

We would ask Deputies to consider, other than that, if we are putting a whole generation on HAP. Will that payment be at a level such that people can remain in the communities that they have worked in, contributed to and lived in all their lives? That is the challenge. There is a systematic lack of policy decisions that could lead us to problems. We want every age group and the 13,000 people who are homeless to have a house. Behind that is a whole age group that could dwarf what is currently happening.

Ms Gráinne Loughran

There was a report by the Joint Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government in 2018 on housing options for older people, which recognised many of the issues that we continue to see. That report concluded that the topic of housing for older people is seldom discussed and that if Ireland is to be prepared for the growth in the number of older people, we must address this issue now. It also noted that Ireland will have to adapt its current housing policy to facilitate this change in demographics. This is something that we know has been recognised by various Deputies and Senators, such as the committee, for some years now. We just need to see some actions that complement that.

Deputy Joe Flaherty

It would probably be fair to say that we very much need rightsizing. Many older people have come to me who live in large three or four-bedroom houses that are way too large for them, but unfortunately they are houses they have built, financed themselves and paid off their mortgages on. If they go to the local authority, they are not deemed eligible for social housing supports because they own a house, but similarly, in Longford, they cannot buy a one or two-bedroom house. The Department of housing needs to be dynamic and look out to and reach out to those people to create a mechanism where we can swap and give them a local authority house in lieu of their house. There obviously has to be some degree of financial contribution. Have the witnesses seen a scheme like that work anywhere with some degree of success?

Ms Gráinne Loughran

We have seen various schemes. I note that there are 393,000 one and two-bedroom homes which are currently occupied in the State, according to the census. There are nearly 426,000 people of all ages living alone. This has implications for the policy on rightsizing that has been committed to. Single adult households remain the majority household grouping on the waiting list for social housing. We know there is a significant shortage of one and two-bedroom homes, particularly one-bedroom homes. Any policy for rightsizing must be matched with a commitment to increased development of one and two-bedroom homes and incentives for that, or else it will be ineffective.

Deputy Joe Flaherty

I thank Ms Loughran.

Deputy Paul McAuliffe took the Chair.

Deputy Thomas Gould

I thank everyone for being here today. I have limited time so I will try to be brief. Mr. Moynihan gave a figure of 176 age-friendly homes having been delivered in 2023. That seems a shockingly low figure after listening to the statistics that he and Ms Loughran have given to us. What should the target for delivery be, in Mr. Moynihan's opinion?

Mr. Seán Moynihan

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

That would be very useful. As Mr. Moynihan knows, I have been to the Inchicore development. It is a very important one.

Senator Victor Boyhan

I welcome all our guests. I thank them for their advocacy work because that is what makes the difference. It is important that they continue to raise the questions and pursue the homelessness agenda, which is the focus of today's meeting. Without them as strong, independent and fair advocates, many of the issues in the debate would get lost. They are doing a great job. I am sure they do not always believe that themselves. I am sure they are pulling out their hair and are frustrated, as many of us on the committee are, but I ask them to keep up their work because it is very important.

I will direct my questions to the National One Parent Family Alliance. All homelessness is a disgrace and a shame, but especially its impacts on and trauma for children. Ms Bayliss talked about that in great detail. Her organisation is an alliance of people with lived experiences.

You cannot beat lived experiences, and the State has an obligation, as we know, to protect the child. There is so much work on it and so much thought about it. Particularly at this time, there is a lot of debate about the family and children. We have to acknowledge that there is huge child trauma, a lack of support workers and serious issues with a lack of support for young people leaving institutional care in particular. They are vulnerable at the best of times but they become more vulnerable and subject to an awful lot of other abuses outside of a structure. They do not have a family support, a network or a grounding and they become terribly vulnerable. We hear of the shortage of key workers for children, that is, child advocates who can advocate for them. While there are advocates for parents, children have to be protected as individuals themselves. It is about their rights, their future and their lives. Then we hear so much about emergency accommodation.

I ask the following of the National One Parent Family Alliance in particular but I would like a number of views. What has been the witnesses' experience with Tusla? Tusla has an awful lot of questions to answer too, as we know from other experiences and previous reports. I would like the witnesses to share with me and the committee their experience as regards the vulnerability of these children, particularly children coming from care and single-parent families who have economic disadvantage. They have so many disadvantages and vulnerability. As to how the witnesses interface on behalf of the people they represent, can they share with us some of their experience and networking with Tusla?

I thank everyone who has come in. A lot of very important points have been made, and I thank all the witnesses for their contributions. Will the National One Parent Family Alliance expand a little on the four calls it has made here?

We will start another round of questions. If all members stick to five minutes, everyone will get in.

Senator Mary Fitzpatrick

Dr. Dermot Kavanagh

No. Some of the eight are represented in our figure of 17. Our figure is for people using our emergency accommodation and high-support housing, people in our housing first programme and people in our other supported housing programmes. One of the things I wanted to draw attention to, in particular, was that when we look at the people who were passing away and were in housing with support, the average age of death was 12 years older. I think one of the strongest findings is that the more unstable a person's housing situation, the more there is a risk of death. Problem drug and alcohol use increases substantially as well.

If we take housing first, we have around 80 people in these types of tenancies between counties Cork and Kerry. An awful lot of those would be people who had spent their lives homeless. Some of them would be at a relatively old age for homeless people. It is important to say that many of them started their lives as the traumatised children whom we now see in emergency accommodation. I can give an example of one man. He passed away in housing first accommodation. He had been in homeless services for more than 20 years and then he was housed. While he was in homeless services, he had hundreds of admissions into hospital for seizures and related conditions. After he was housed, however, he had no more seizures. He had visiting support from a medical team. The emphasis on housing, therefore, and the difference that housing makes to reducing the risk of death are important.

Deputy Thomas Gould

I know people will not use Cork Simon Community's night light service, even though it is a brilliant one, because women and people in recovery feel vulnerable.

They feel they are going into situations that might trigger them and lead them back into addiction. There is a huge need for more accommodation for women and families but also for people in recovery. People are telling me that it is easier or safer to sleep on the streets than to go into emergency accommodation if they want to avoid ending up back in the throes of addiction. We have spoken about how badly there is a need for specific housing in Cork for people in recovery and other groups.

Dr. Dermot Kavanagh

There is not enough such housing. We have aftercare housing for seven people leaving addiction treatment and that has had a very positive and measurable effect. Before we put that accommodation in place, the pathway into addiction treatment from our shelter was very small, involving only six or seven people a year whereas it is 30 or 40 people a year now. Previously people leaving residential addiction treatment often found themselves homeless, back in the shelter and then back in addiction very quickly but when we put in the aftercare housing, that made a real difference. However, people are now getting stuck in aftercare housing. Again, I bring it back to housing and the fact that we need more housing.

Housing First is great; it is fabulous. The city council provides half of the units and the Simon Community and Focus Ireland provide the other half. It is fabulous but if people go into addiction treatment and sort out their addiction issue they do not meet the criteria for Housing First any more. There are aftercare beds available although they are, to use that terrible phrase, getting silted up but there are no dedicated homes available for people leaving addiction treatment. In parallel to Housing First, there should be beds available for people leaving addiction treatment. It is a no-brainer and I do not know why we do not do it.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

We need spaces for those in recovery.

Dr. Dermot Kavanagh

Yes, absolutely.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

It is about championing recovery as well. Deputy O'Donoghue is next.

Deputy Richard O'Donoghue

I thank everyone for coming in. I was watching the proceedings online before I came in. Infrastructure is key and nothing can happen without it. We cannot build extra houses or accommodation if we do not have infrastructure. If a person in a town or village becomes homeless, the emergency facilities available to them through the various agencies are usually based in the cities. People are being taken out of their natural environment and taken into the cities where they do not feel safe. Terms such as "culchies" and "city slickers" were common when I was growing up. They refer to people who grew up in completely different environments but we all got on well together. The person who lives in a countryside culture having to come into a city culture does not feel safe.

At Christmas I visited Adapt House, which is trying to bring a bit of normality to the lives of the families in there. I know of some people who have been there for more than two years. I know of one person in there who has three children. The family is getting all of the help that is available but the biggest problem is getting accommodation. Children are in school but when they are in emergency accommodation for a long time, their schooling suffers.

Brownfield sites need infrastructure. The data on sewerage systems in Ireland, for example, shows that they are at capacity. Brownfield sites need investment in sewerage capacity but that is not happening. The data is there to show that investment is only happening in the cities, which does not cover the brownfield sites in towns and villages.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I will take my own slot now and then allow Deputy Gould and Senator Fitzpatrick to ask a short question at the end. I am anxious to finish by 5.20 p.m.

I wish the witnesses had been present for some of the previous discussions we had at this committee, although I am sure they have observed them. What everyone is saying here is that supply is the answer.

We have had a good discussion today. We have representatives of business owners and people trading in the city and promoting it, as well as a lot of homelessness service providers. I want to speak about an issue that overlaps the two areas.

As anybody who has gone out on a homelessness run in the evening will know, at least in the case of the ones I have done, they are reluctant to provide food. In fact, many of them have a policy of not providing sleeping bags, and that is because those people who are engaged in homelessness services know that is not the best way to engage with people. A cup of tea might get the conversation started, which might help people make the referral into emergency accommodation and so on, but we know the soup run model is not the best model.

What we are hearing in the National One Parent Family Alliance, both on our helpline and through other service providers, is that we have to give some allowance in that it is a new scheme and it is inevitable there will be some teething problems and so on. It is being utilised through local authorities and every local authority has a different way of operating, a different set of waiting lists and a different method for prioritising who, what and how. Some of the figures are coming back and we are seeing some improvements in that, but we have to wait for more data to have a better idea of what way that is going to go. Nevertheless, we are hearing from people, including parents and everybody else who is finding themselves in that scenario, that it can take a long time to get even a response from a council or to get an assessor to have a look at the property.

Often we are hearing as well that local authorities are looking at trying to pay under market rent, potentially. This is anecdotal and I cannot give firm figures on that. I can understand this to a certain extent as it is public money and all the rest but obviously we are in an open market situation where it is not necessarily going to go that way. A lot of delay seems to be happening all the way through that process and we hope it may be able to be speeded up.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Some local authorities are better than others. We are very tight on time.

Deputy Thomas Gould

Regarding Alone, the lone parent families and the supply of social housing, the figures that were given showed Ireland was at 9% while the EU average is 18%. What I find now is that when both older people and lone parent families who are at risk of homelessness get homes, they get some of the worst housing that is available when they should probably be getting some of the best. These are all vulnerable people. Do the witnesses see that happening where people are just being thrown anywhere, probably because they do not have a voice or their voices are not being heard by the people in authority?

Ms Gráinne Loughran

What we see is that many older people get housing that is not adapted for them or is not suitable for their needs. We have had situations where an older person is living in social housing and cannot leave the house for want of a stair lift. They are struggling to live up a couple of flights in an apartment. The accessibility is the major challenge. Most social housing is not built to universal design and accessible standards. It might not be a case of people being put in the worst of the worst of anything like that but just from an accessibility standpoint, the housing might not be suitable.

Ms Marcella Stakem

We have found from our research too that lone parents are overrepresented in tenancies and private rental accommodation. Almost 50% of new HAP tenancies in 2022 were lone parents. We have concerns there, particularly around the income side of things and income adequacy, but also as to the standards in some HAP tenancies. We get feedback from our members right across the country that there are some really poor standards of accommodation. I want to highlight at this stage that our overarching main recommendation, which brings in those standards but also the tenant in situ scheme, is that we would like to see the NHAC child and family subgroup be reconvened. It is a really important space to discuss, highlight and put forward policy and legislative solutions some of which we are speaking about today. There are currently proposals to add additional subgroups to the NHAC subgroups but as well as that happening we really need to see a focus on getting those subgroups back in action. We have not met for more than a year and, all the while, homelessness has deteriorated, particularly for lone-parent families. We are also recommending that the child poverty and well-being unit from the Department of an Taoiseach would join that group as part of the subgroup because it has an important remit around early intervention and addressing and preventing child poverty.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I thank all the witnesses for attending. I also thank those of all ages who are in the Public Gallery for joining us as well. If there are additional requests the witnesses would like to make in writing to the committee for inclusion in our reports, they are free to do that and they should send those on to us.

I remind members of the select committee meeting in the room at 6.15 p.m.

The joint committee adjourned at 5.24 p.m. until 11 a.m. on Tuesday, 19 March 2023.

Joint Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage debate - Tuesday, 5 Mar 2024

Update on Homelessness: Discussion

Mr. David Kelly

Mr. David Kelly

Ms Mary Hayes

Mr. Brian Geaney

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Mr. David Kelly

Mr. David Kelly

Mr. David Kelly

Mr. David Kelly

Mr. David Kelly

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Mr. John Durkan

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Mr. Niall Ó Donnabháin

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Mr. Niall Ó Donnabháin

Mr. Niall Ó Donnabháin

Mr. Niall Ó Donnabháin

Ms Mary Hayes

Mr. Niall Ó Donnabháin

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Mr. David Kelly

Mr. David Kelly

Mr. David Kelly

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Ms Mary Hayes

Mr. John Durkan

Mr. John Durkan

Mr. John Durkan

Mr. John Durkan

Mr. John Durkan

Mr. John Durkan

Mr. John Durkan

Mr. John Durkan

Mr. John Durkan

Ms Mary Hayes

Joint Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage debate -
Tuesday, 5 Mar 2024