Skip to main content
Normal View

Joint Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation debate -
Tuesday, 26 Mar 2013

Skills Development: Discussion with Skillnets

I welcome Mr. Alan Nuzum, chief executive, and Dr. Lorcán Ó hÓbáin, programme manager, ManagementWorks. I also welcome Mr. Dave Flynn, programme support manager, Skillnets. Today we will discuss the following: the Skillnets enterprise-led model in terms of its effectiveness and relevance to the current and future skills needs of enterprise and the workforce; the use of conversion courses as an effective policy response in filling skills gaps and labour market activation; and the role of the ManagementWorks initiative in boosting the management capacity of SME owners and managers in sustaining and growing their business.

Before we commence, I remind witnesses that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. If they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against a person or persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I now ask Mr. Nuzum to make his presentation.

Mr. Alan Nuzum

I thank the Acting Chairman and members of the committee for inviting Skillnets to this meeting. I am joined by my colleagues, Mr. Dave Flynn, programme support manager for Skillnets, and Dr. Lorcán Ó hÓbáin, programme manager for ManagementWorks. We would be very happy to deal with any question from members about the wide variety of initiatives that Skillnets is involved in. In my opening remarks I will, as outlined by the Acting Chairman cover the following areas: the effectiveness and relevance of the Skillnets enterprise-led model in the current economic climate for developing the current and future skills needs of enterprise and the workforce; the appropriate use of conversion courses as an effective policy response in filling skills gaps and labour market activation; and the importance and impact of boosting the management capability of our SME owners and managers to sustain and grow their businesses and the role that the new ManagementWorks initiative plays in delivering this.

Let me start by addressing who we are, what we do and how we address the current and future skills needs. Skillnets was established in 1999 and is an enterprise-led support body dedicated to the promotion and facilitation of training for enterprise in Ireland. We aim to increase participation in enterprise training by Irish companies, most particularly SMEs that form more than 95% of all the companies we support, to improve competitiveness or business but also to provide improved access for their employees and since 2010, for jobseekers to skills development and enhanced employability. We are funded by the Department of Education and Skills from the national training fund. In 2013, our total funding allocation is €14.5 million.

We have a community of training networks which comprise groups of companies from the same sector or region who come together, identify their common training needs and seek to deliver on those needs. We currently have 55 such training networks operating across the country. At the core of our model it involves companies being directly involved in the identification, design, delivery and evaluation of skills development, either as lead bodies or in partnership with other organisations.

What do we mean by the enterprise-led approach?

Basically we support networks and their member companies to identify their own training needs and deliver them locally in order that they are truly demand driven and flexible. It is important to note that enterprises contribute financially in terms of cash and resources. Therefore, our training networks are a joint investment between public and private. The mere fact that companies are prepared to invest quite heavily is clear testament that they perceive value in doing so. Another feature of the enterprise led models is that new concepts and sharing of ideas are encouraged so that we are constantly more innovative in our delivery of training solutions to support growth and expansion.

In 2012, €22.7 million was invested in training through our networks, benefiting more than 43,000 employees and jobseekers. This comprised Skillnets from the national training fund investing in excess of €12 million and industry investing in excess of €10 million. More than 10,000 companies participated in our training programmes in 2012. As a demand and labour market driven organisation, Skillnets is continually adapting and responding to industry needs. By way of example, we have developed new training programmes to upskill current and future employees in sectors identified by the expert group on future skills needs, such as ICT, life sciences, food and agri-business. This has included the development of many brand new qualifications on the national framework of qualifications up to and including level nine. In addition, since 2010, our model also supports jobseekers. One unique feature of this model is that it provides access to training alongside those in employment, therefore, ensuring that the training is relevant as well as providing a much needed opportunity for jobseekers to remain connected with the world of work. A further example is our ability to respond rapidly. In 2011, when TalkTalk in Waterford made more than 500 workers redundant, Skillnets was able, in partnership with some local and national networks, within days to begin a process of support which included training and access to other jobs in the sector. This has continued in our ongoing support to local employers such as Eishtec in the training and development of new workers, many coming off the life register. As further proof of the demand for our model we have recently launched a new fund for the development of brand new training networks specifically aimed at regions and sectors where there are gaps.

Our key message is that enterprise, particularly SMEs, will engage in skills development once barriers around value, quality and access are overcome. As I mentioned earlier, part of our ability to adapt is evidenced by our commencing support for jobseekers in 2010. In its report, Creating Policies that Work, the committee recommended the need to focus resources on active labour market programmes with strong labour market linkages. In support of this recommendation I take this opportunity to highlight some conversion programmes which enabled jobseekers of one discipline to acquire training in a different discipline to re-enter the jobs market.

During the past couple of years, but 2012 in particular, our training networks have developed and delivered a number of conversion courses which have been very successful in helping jobseekers move from declining sectors into growth sectors and from unemployment into employment. These conversion courses are delivered under our jobseekers support programme which is fully funded by Skillnets and combines work placement with intensive training. We are currently evaluating a group of 12 of these programmes where a new model is emerging in terms of what makes an effective conversion programme but some of the common critical success factors are already very clear to us. First, the quality of the relationship that the individual network manager has with the member companies is a vital catalyst in designing these programmes. By starting with the end in mind, that is, what jobs are available now or are in the pipeline, networks can plan their training and support for jobseekers around the needs of real jobs. Therefore, industry engagement at the planning stage is essential as it often results in key employers endorsing and championing the programme which gives the jobseekers who complete them a distinct advantage in the job market.

Intensive industry endorsed training with work placement or longer-term internships have combined very successfully with JobBridge, the national internship scheme, and are a powerful combination in terms of employment outcomes. Programmes that have proven to be particularly effective are those that are highly structured but project based and include significant elements of training and support by company mentors in combination with external expertise. The 12 conversion programmes act as an example and exemplar and comprised 400 jobseekers. The progression rate currently stands at 72% into direct employment within two months of completion of these programmes. This excludes those who have progressed into further education and is based on the numbers who secured employment or, in some cases, established a business within two months of completing or training in work placements. We are undertaking an ongoing research project on these 12 programmes and will shortly issue a report, based on the programmes. Once published, it would be our intention to provide a copy of the report to each member of the committee. Some further research conducted only in the past week indicates that some of those programmes are achieving employment rates of over 90%.

The third theme we want to speak about is our ManagementWorks initiative which is managed by Skillnets. It is focused on increasing the management capability of Irish SMEs in order to have a direct impact on their ability to sustain and create employment. Following the recommendations of the advisory group on small business in 2011, ManagementWorks was established under the Action Plan for Jobs 2012. The focus of the programme is to assist owners and managers of firms to develop their businesses and improve performance. As the committee will be aware, there are almost 200,000 SMEs employing in excess of 600,000 people in Ireland. More than 90% of these firms have fewer than ten employees. Therefore, surviving businesses have weathered the storm of the past five years but research shows there is a strong positive correlation between management capability and firm survival, growth, productivity and turnover. The message for us is clear. By increasing the management capability of Irish SMEs this will have a direct impact on their ability to sustain and grow employment.

ManagementWorks helps to improve helps to improve management capability through relevant workshops with small groups of owner managers and targeted mentoring on a one to one basis. We are aware of and support the committee's recently published report on mentoring support to SMEs. Our experience has been that the engagement with an experienced and professional mentor who can question and support the manager, as part of a learning journey, is making a real difference in terms of implementation and also the transfer of learning from the workshops to the individual firms. Since its launch in September 2012, more than 320 business people from all over the country have chosen to participate in ManagementWorks programmes. It is worth noting that smaller firms, that is, those comprising less than ten employees, make up 65% of participating firms so far and in the vast majority of cases these owners and managers have not participated in any form of management training previously.

ManagementWorks is focused on improving the capability of SMEs. Initial feedback from participants reveals great progress on actions which will build to that objective with firms reporting better business information being generated, mentors who are challenging them to think about their business more clearly and significant increases in their business and personal confidence. We are undertaking a full evaluation of the programme following an interim evaluation at year end which is being submitted to the Department of Education and Skills.

In summary, we believe that Skillnets occupies a unique position in the multidimensional jobs challenge. On the one hand, we have a strong relationship with, and ability to support upskilling within enterprise both in terms of job preservation and growth. On the other hand, we have also developed solutions and pathways for jobseekers to increase their chance of gaining employment through gaining skills and experience in demand by enterprise. For us the evidence is clear. All of the stakeholders involved in the jobs challenge, be they employers, the employed, jobseekers, etc., will engage in skills development once the barriers around value, quality and access are overcome.

I thank the committee for its time so far today. We are happy to answer any questions the members may have.

I thank Mr. Nuzum for that insightful report. It contains some interesting statistics. I now invite questions from the members.

I welcome Mr. Nuzum and the team. I have always been a fan of Skillnets. It is close to market. Mr. Nuzum's organisation is responsible for much of the shake-up in education and training in the past few years.

I am interested in two matters. ManagementWorks is probably a departure from Skillnets original core mission. How many have gone through it at this stage and what is Skillnets doing to promote it?

I note that Skillnets has €500,000 available for the private sector. Skillnets documentation states that it is targeting regions and industries not fully serviced by the training networks. I note it refers to the Border and midland regions. Why is there a reluctance in those two regions to engage in networks? Has Skillnets attempted to get in there previously? Has it any specific industries in mind to target?

Mr. Alan Nuzum

To take Deputy Calleary's first question about ManagementWorks as to whether it is a departure from our core mission, the answer is "No". It is a complementary expansion of what we have been doing since 1999. Over the years the vast majority of our networks have engaged in some form of management development support and training but it tended to be of the short, sharp intervention variety and quite subject specific. For example, in recent years there has been significant demand for programmes on matters such as credit control, seeking finance and greater efficiency in business. We have always been active in the management development space, particularly with SMEs. As I stated earlier, over 95% of the companies involved are SMEs. We would see this as a further expansion, a more deep and meaningful engagement and support for companies.

It is interesting to note that the attrition rate of those starting the programmes has been virtually nil. This involves employers having to take a full day each month away from their business. That is encouraging for us.

In terms of promotion, we decided to create a separate brand, ManagementWorks, but to leverage the Skillnets brand as well because we would be well known within the SME community already. We have engaged in a fair amount of traditional promotion of it - press, radio, etc. Perhaps it has passed Deputy Calleary by. It is difficult to get one's message across to SMEs because they are being assailed with a constant barrage of the latest tools that will help their business. There are two areas where we found most traction. Social media has been successful for us, in particular, Facebook, where one can profile and hone one's message a little more specifically to the audience one wants to reach. Probably, the most effective promotional tool of any new initiative that we have ever launched is a slow burner, that is, the word-of-mouth promotional piece. It uses the early movers as champions and advocates to widen it in an almost viral form. For example, and partly to answer one of Deputy Calleary's questions, none of the programmes have completely finished yet because, starting in September, they are typically between six and eight months long. It is a proper in-depth engagement. The earlier groups that started in September are, in the next month or so, nearing completion. We have 320 participants. By mid-May, we hope to have reached the 600 mark in terms of participants. We wanted to try to answer the question in terms of proof of demand as to whether there is a genuine demand. It involves a cash investment but, probably more importantly, a time and energy investment by the SMEs. With a very low attrition rate, we are confident that we have got the formula just about right.

The €500,000 Deputy Calleary mentioned is the funding that has been set aside for the creation of brand new networks. This has been a feature of our development over the year. Between one thing and another, we have probably funded over 300 networks since 1999. Some networks have a natural life. Many of our current networks comprise old networks coming together to form a new single entity to generate greater economies of scale.

Border and midlands were identified as areas, not where we did not have a representation but where the number of companies active in those counties was low compared to the number of companies that we had logged as member companies in other parts of the country. Deputy Calleary might be interested to know that the highest concentration of both Skillnets networks and member companies is in the west. They seem to get clearly the networking piece. We have over the years had a number of networks active in those areas.

One of the barriers in the Border areas, although it has reduced significantly over the years, was that the level of subsidy available for support for matters such as training was very high for all sorts of EU and structural reasons. Basically, we operate on a 50:50 model which involves a serious commitment in cash terms from companies, but the playing field is now much more level. We have generated a good deal of interest. We specifically went to both Cavan and Tullamore with our road show to drum up local interest in it and I think we will have some success in that regard.

In terms of sectors about which Deputy Calleary asked, these are more sub-sectors than whole sectors. For example, within the ICT area where we would be active in general hardware and software, we were completely under-represented in gaming and animation. I am a member of the Expert Group on Future Skills Needs and the gaming and animation sector is one that is a little fragmented. They do not tend to join the trade associations or whatever. They tend to do their own thing. That was one sector that we have actively gone after.

Also, there are parts of the green economy that we support, for example, we have a wind skillnet. One interesting area includes green finance, such as carbon trading, in which there is much activity in and around the IFSC at present. We are trying to leverage the potential growth of a sector like that in terms of teaming it up with other parts of the green value chain in terms of the funding, for example, of green projects worldwide where Ireland has great potential for being a hub for the management of that kind of activity. As well as what is going on in the economy, we are talking about a potential global reach there.

In the food and agri-space, we have some active networks. When one looks at the size of the sector, there is plenty of room for sub-sectors to be developed. I hope I answered all of Deputy Calleary's questions.

I thank Mr. Nuzum for his contribution. While we know about Skillnets, it is important for him to come along here and update us. His contribution has been most interesting.

Perhaps Mr. Nuzum answer this in the previous question, but twice he mentioned barriers around value, quality and access. I ask him to elaborate.

I note Mr. Nuzum is a member of the Expert Group on Future Skills Needs. The committee is conscious of the group's reports here too. It is good to see that he is tracking their outcomes and trying to match the work of Skillnets to those areas.

I am conscious that Mr. Nuzum mentioned it twice.

Mr. Alan Nuzum

I mentioned it twice so that it would have an impact. I did not want to talk too much at the start but value is key. At its most basic level, we must consider the cost of the training. Whereas the subsidy for companies is not huge it is enough for it to make the investment in training a sensible decision. I mentioned the 50-50 model earlier but once the network has covered its general costs the typical subsidy that a company is getting is probably between 20% and 30%. The companies are paying the lion's share. In our research we found that one of the main reasons that companies engage with the Skillnets network initially is to save some money but once they are in it, the top reason they stay is because of the quality of the training.

Value is also very important in terms of job seekers. All training provided by Skillnets network is free to jobseekers. I mentioned earlier that jobseekers may receive training alongside those in employment. For a jobseeker to access training in that context on their own bat they would have had to pay to participate in an open course. We have also developed a very strong and effective relationship with the Department of Social Protection to ensure that jobseekers' participation in the wide variety of courses that we provide free of charge to them does not impact on their benefits. That has not been an easy result to get. It has involved a great of deal of collaboration and negotiation with the Department of Social Protection but I must take my hat off to them, having seen the demand by jobseekers for the types of courses we are doing, particularly with the progression outcomes I have outlined, the Department sees the value of them.

Quality is about the relevance of the training to the person and to the company. It is important to get the two elements in balance. What the company wants effectively is training that will make an employee more productive, able to do cross-functional work and to take on new work. Therefore it improves the company's competitiveness and impacts on its survival. From the point of view of the employee, he or she is looking at employability and perhaps has one eye on his or her current job but another on the ifs of being out of a job. It is a serious challenge for a jobseeker to make a choice on a career area. When one looks at the vast and increasing array of training and education opportunities available to jobseekers, either publicly funded or what they fund themselves, how can they answer the question, "Is this what I need in order to get a job?". If one is participating in training that has been designed by and is in demand by enterprise, it goes a long way to answering that question. The Skillnets networks have a quality mark as they are designed and endorsed by enterprise.

Access is another key element. At its most basic level one will see from the list of our networks that many are based in regions around the country, from the north west to south Kerry to Galway to the south east and so on. We bring training to where people are. The individual companies in the SME sector would not have enough people to justify the cost of drafting in a trainer, so the option was to send staff to major centres, such as Dublin, Cork or Galway, however our services makes training accessible. We have not just one network, but 55 networks with access for all companies within all the networks to training in other networks and access for jobseekers not just in their local area but if they wish to travel to sector specific training, it is there as there are hundreds of different courses available on our websites. That was a long answer to a short question.

In response to the question on the expert group, I have been a member of the expert group since 2007. We find it an excellent direction finder for us in terms of what is going on out there. We, through our networks have been able to provide input to all of the sectoral reports that the expert group will have commissioned. That helps us to get our message across. The quality of the research they produce is of such a high order that we rely on it and it certainly has not let us down. I fully endorse their work.

I welcome the witnesses. I am very supportive of the work that is being done in this area. It is very important, given our current situation. There is a role for a former agency that deals with developing skills in the employers group and the businesses themselves. That is very important. What is missing in Ireland, although some European countries are excellent at it, is fostering the culture of learning and upskilling within companies. Companies can encourage their employees to upskill and avail of training opportunities within existing companies. If that was happening on a more sustained basis it would negate the need to troubleshoot. When a company is in crisis and goes bust, we see the need for upskilling and retraining workers. We are not very good at looking at where problems might arise and looking at the generic skills that workers need to have to transfer to other employment. The situation that arose in TalkTalk is a good example. Training was provided and there was a high level of skill in the area. When H-Tec was formed, it was on the basis that people in the area had the core skills as well as management and business skills and had the support of Skillnets and Enterprise Ireland. They were able to give that support because the staff had the skills base.

I would like to see training and upskilling embedded in enterprise. That is crucial for the country. What more can Skillnets do?

Mr. Nuzum mentioned six key growth areas. This will differ from region to region. I come from the south east and I know this region majors in life sciences, pharma, medical devices, engineering, food and tourism. There is a need for upskilling in the tourism sector. The counties of Wexford, Waterford and Kilkenny are now being called a tourism triangle. One of the things that has come up in meetings I have attended is the need for bespoke training courses in customer service and many other areas in regard to tourism and the food sector. In relation to the regional element, how does Skillnets tailor what it does to meet the strengths and needs of regions? Skillnets networks has identified growth areas, but obviously this may differ within regions, and other sectors in a region may need to be considered. Is additional funding being made available for regions that are losing out disproportionately or underperforming? This is happening in the Border counties. However, the rate of unemployment in the south east is 25% above the national average. Skillnets needs to focus more on areas in which they are high levels of unemployment.

It is always important to measure success. How is it measured? Has Mr Nuzum any information on additional posts that might have been created in companies to which Skillnets has provided training and supports both for the employees and the employers? Has he figures on the cost of such services? It would be important to measure the success of what has been done and the costs involved.

I thank Mr. Nuzum for his very insightful presentation.

Mr. Alan Nuzum

I will try to cover the questions but I will get some value from my colleagues as well.

Senator Cullinane made some very good points. He raised the issue of embedding a culture of learning and development within organisations. Clearly the companies that we engage with have self-selected and put themselves forward, usually on the recommendation of a peer, to get involved.

The most effective tactic we found to increase the incidence of training and development within an organisation is to start at the top with the owner or manager. The more switched on they are to their own personal development, the more likely it is that there will be a trickle-down effect over time and that they will help to train their staff. For example, there is a slightly unintended consequence of the ManagementWorks programme which focuses exclusively on owners and managers. We have been talking to the cohorts that started six or eight months ago and they say they have never provided much training for their people, but because they have had all this training we need to start spreading the benefit around. That is one clear tactic that has worked and we will continue to push on that.

The second question concerned the whole regional piece. Part of what we do is to focus on the six sectors, which we mentioned in the note provided to the committee. Those sectors, which have been identified by the expert group, have export potential and there is FDI involvement. However, that is by no means the only route through which we support training in general. If one looked at a list of the networks we fund, the clue is often in the name - for example, the Waterford Chamber Skillnet, Galway Executive Skillnet, the North-West Technical Skillnet or the South Kerry Skillnet. All those networks are mixed sectors, so it is not about industry-specific training.

This also refers to the point concerning generic skills. Almost of all of what we do are skills whereby one can mix a group of people from different companies. They will not be very company specific, so one tends to get a good volume of basic customer services, communications, selling and efficiency training.

We have a good presence in the south east but it could probably be improved and we are looking at ways of doing that. For example, I am working with the south-east action group to see what can be done.

The tourism side of things is a real challenge for us. Within those 10,000 companies, particularly the mixed sector ones, there are many individual hospitality businesses, including restaurants, cafés and bars. In days gone by, we had a number of different hospitality sector networks but they were not able to survive the model of having to come up with 50% of the funding. That was a big challenge for them, unfortunately, but that is our model and it works for us.

As part of the new call for proposals, we are actively engaged with a number of groups from the hospitality sector, all of them with a strong regional presence. Very often we can fund a national sectoral network, but within that there might be satellites in particular parts of the country where the need is greatest. It is clearly a massive sector for the economy but one that we probably need to do more on.

As regards measuring success, we employ a raft of evaluation processes from the usual evaluation of training on the day through to measuring the return on investment in training. There are a lot of other evaluations in between. The committee was sent a copy of our latest independent evaluation which relates to 2011. This is an independent evaluation conducted on all our activities but part of the objective was to determine the return on investment for the State. One particular piece of analysis looked at the direct funding that had gone towards supporting jobseekers versus the confirmed number of jobseekers who had gained employment as a direct result of their participation with Skillnets.

There was a conservative approach of stripping out anything that could in any way be affected by other factors. The bottom line was that there was a 258% return on investment for the State when we looked at the cost of programmes and a year's benefit to the State from not having to pay jobseeker's allowance and-or benefit. The figure of 258% is correct and is emblazoned on my mind. The cost was €3.3 million and the benefit was in the region of €9.5 million. I can give the committee the exact figures, which are in the report. Hopefully, however, that will give the committee some idea of the fact that we do not shy away from a hard evaluation of training.

Having operated in the training area for many years, and without criticising my training colleagues, I know there is sometimes a tendency to put the whole impact measurement and evaluation of training in the "too difficult" pile because so many other factors can get in the way when one is trying to measure something like that. In the external independent evaluations that have been conducted on our activities, however, we push it to the absolute limit in trying to determine what the return is for the State.

Behind that is a whole series of evaluation programmes that enable companies to determine the benefit to them. If there is one sure way of encouraging a company to continue to invest in training, it is if it can see that there is a clear return, particularly a clear bottom-line return, in terms of increased sales, reduced costs, greater profit and greater efficiency. If we did not engage in that type of activity with and through our networks, enterprises would not engage with us because that is how they measure their business.

I wish to ask a few questions. I did not realise that jobseekers were entitled to free access to Skillnets courses. Perhaps we should examine that from an advertising viewpoint. I would be interested to hear from Dr. Ó hÓbáin about the ManagementWorks programme. What is Skillnets finding from the 320 clients? Are patterns developing for gaps and particularly in the leadership area? It is important that we should continue in that role because all the evidence indicates that we need to educate leaders for companies to build.

Is there any element of conversion courses that includes languages? It seems to be a barrier in particular areas and especially for the German market. Is Skillnets considering that?

I understand that only one gentleman in the south is running the ManagementWorks area. Hopefully, extra funding can be considered because it is an very large area for one individual to manage, as well as encouraging all the companies to get involved. If the budget allows for such funding, perhaps that can be looked into.

Cork County Council has done a lot of work with e-centres which involves setting up hot-desk areas and training facilities. Is this something we could examine with Skillnets, for example, how we could engage with the wider community by running more courses that are needed in a more focused way?

Mr. Alan Nuzum

I will take the points concerning non-ManagementWorks and will then hand over to Dr. Ó hÓbáin. Free access to Skillnets courses has been a feature from day one. It is a hard one to promote because, depending on the programme, it is subject to a whole raft of eligibility rules and regulations. I alluded to it earlier and my colleague, Mr. Flynn, has been the main negotiator on our part to get full approval for our programmes. Once the eligibility question has been answered, then it is free.

Mr. Alan Nuzum

We would never charge jobseekers for anything, but if they are not eligible we cannot support them. Blasting the word "free" across everything does create the impression that it is free to everyone, no matter what, whereas there is a lot of small print and there are also hurdles to overcome.

As regards conversion courses in languages, this is a particular hobby-horse of mine in terms of trying to address this matter, particularly given the amount of penetration we have with the contact centre industry where we are very active.

Some programmes are starting to emerge that I have been pushing in collaboration with the industry. The basic idea is a boot camp-type approach. Many of the jobs that are available require native tongue language skills and there is no point in us trying to address that gap. A significant number of the jobs available in the area, in particular on the technical support side, require the ability to converse in a particular language across a narrow lexicon of terms. A particular part of the language is relevant to particular jobs. We are looking at ways to take Irish workers who have some degree of proficiency in a language and accelerate them over a short period in a workplace situation. To date, the progress has been slow but a couple of initiatives are bubbling away and I will let the committee know when they come to fruition.

Dr. Lorcán Ó hÓbáin

It is hard to generalise about gaps. We have approximately 350 people on programmes and we have 18 programmes running across ten different locations. A couple of issues arise. Sometimes the training needs are fundamental. We encounter many business owners who, by their own admission, are relatively weak in financial skills and financial planning. The concept of having cashflow and cashflow plans is a significant area of deficiency. Small business owners, traditionally, are very good at managing their bank balance. They are very aware of where they stand on a day-to-day basis but not necessarily of what lies six or eight weeks ahead.

The one general finding is the sense of confidence that is coming back to people who engage with programmes. We had a meeting last week with two of our participants who talked about the difference it has made to them psychologically in terms of their confidence about business reflecting on what they are doing. Peer-to-peer learning is a big issue for us. The groups are composed of owner-managers or people at a senior management level in an organisation. The opportunity to engage with people from six or eight multi-sectoral businesses makes a real difference. People are given an opportunity to articulate what they are doing and then to be questioned by others who are not familiar with the type of business, which can fundamentally challenge the assumption business owners sometimes make about their business. That has proven to be useful.

The core programmes we run have an element of mentoring incorporated in them. We find that owner-managers are sometimes a little nervous about that at the beginning because the idea of being accountable to somebody else can be off-putting. Without fail, all of the participants have said that engaging with mentors has made an enormous difference to what they do.

Mr. Nuzum mentioned in his opening remarks that mentoring is part of a learning journey and that it is making a fundamental difference. Two things seem to happen. One is that it is the nature of the human condition that when we commit to someone else to do something, we are much more likely to try to do it. At the end of our sessions the trainers inform participants that they will have a mentoring visit in the next two to three weeks and ask what they expect to have achieved by then. That requires people to make a statement of intent. There is a realisation that the first question they will be asked by their mentor – not in a confrontational way – is how they got on. Most people will try to have an answer.

On a more practical level what also happens is that implementation is never as easy as it seems. When one is sitting in a workshop and someone talks about an idea one can think it makes sense and decide to do it. There is a saying that the best war plan does not survive the first encounter with the enemy. Implementation can be difficult. It is helpful to have an opportunity to sit down with a mentor and say one tried something but it did not work and to ask what else one could do. It allows a review of what was done and how well one understood the task. The transfer of learning from a workshop-type environment to the specifics of a person’s business is not as simple as it seems and mentoring makes a big difference.

We have three regional managers. Someone is based in Dungarvan who covers the south. Someone in Galway covers the west and north and someone in Clane covers the north Leinster and Dublin area. Our experience to date is that the current level of coverage is sufficient in terms of trying to meet the scale of demand we can meet in a pilot programme. In the past three months, through those three people, we have had some level of engagement with approximately 3,000 businesses. I am not certain there is much more they can do at that level in terms of physical numbers. We are monitoring carefully the level of engagement and the response we get. We also engage with people in information sessions. At this stage the coverage is probably adequate for the pilot programme. It is a different issue if the initiative is to be rolled out more substantially and we would have to examine it.

When is the pilot programme due to end?

Dr. Lorcán Ó hÓbáin

Realistically, in quarter two of this year. We will evaluate it at that point. We will have seven programmes finishing by the end of May. We wanted to wait to do the evaluation of the pilot programme until we had a reasonable number of programmes finished because the first programmes do not finish until 24 April.

I apologise for being late I was visiting two small companies this morning, both of which have interns. Both experiences appear to be successful. Where would I get information on funding for the Skillnets programme since it was founded in 1999? Is it on the website?

Mr. Alan Nuzum

It is not specifically on the website but if one is prepared to delve into X number of annual reports one would probably find the information.

Mr. Alan Nuzum

I am quite happy to provide the information. By way of recent history, in 2011, 2012 and 2013 our funding has remained steady at €14.5 million.

What was it in 2004?

Mr. Alan Nuzum

It was about €6 million.

Mr. Alan Nuzum

We were at a high level of funding because by 2008 our funding was €26 million but that was a combination of our core training network programme and a programme we took on for a two-year period of EU funding under the Excel programme. The funding reduced after that. Our funding is now approximately €14.5 million. We are definitely doing more with less from the point of view that in those three years we have improved our key outputs in terms of the number of people we support and the number of training days we deliver by more than 10% each year. We are managing to extract, through our network’s purchasing power more than anything else, significant economies of scale as we grow. I could probably take a guess at every year’s funding, having been with Skillnets for ten years. It was €5 million to €6 million up to approximately 2005 or 2006 and then rapidly increased with the EU funding and has now levelled off in recent years.

I thank Mr. Alan Nuzum, CEO, Dr. Lorcán Ó hÓbáin, programme manager of ManagementWorks, and Mr. Dave Flynn, programme support manager, of Skillnets for attending today’s meeting and engaging with the committee. Their engagement is very much appreciated.

The joint committee adjourned at 2.40 p.m. sine die.
Top
Share