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JOINT COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE, EQUALITY, DEFENCE AND WOMEN'S RIGHTS debate -
Wednesday, 1 Apr 2009

Justice and Home Affairs Council: Discussion.

I am grateful to the members of the joint committee for the opportunity to brief them on the matters that have been tabled for discussion at the EU Justice and Home Affairs Council which will take place in Luxembourg on Monday of next week. I will attend the Council on behalf of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern. I will focus my discussion this afternoon on the main items of importance for Ireland on the Council agenda and will provide some brief background on each of them. In addition, I will indicate Ireland's position on the relevant points. As an additional information resource, I draw the committee's attention to the briefing material on the JHA Council agenda items which was provided for members of the committee last Thursday, 26 March.

By way of introduction, I can summarise that it is not anticipated that the agenda items will create any significant difficulties for Ireland. With regard to format, the Council will be divided into three sessions. These sessions will deal respectively with interior or home affairs matters, asylum and immigration and judicial co-operation items.

The Council will begin at 10 a.m. on Monday with the justice matters. The first item of substance on the agenda is a draft Council framework decision on prevention and settlement of conflicts of jurisdiction in criminal proceedings. This is a priority for the Czech Presidency and it will seek progress on this proposal. The aim of the draft framework decision is to reduce the possibility of conflicts of jurisdiction in criminal matters where the facts of a case fall within the jurisdiction of two or more member states. Ireland supports the proposals in the framework decision.

The new measures are to be tabled and presented by the Commission. The first of these is a proposal for the amendment of the 2004 Council framework decision on combating the sexual exploitation of children and child pornography. This is a new proposal which aims to strengthen the EU legal framework addressing the prosecution of offenders, protection of victims and prevention of offences. It is expected that Vice President Barrot will present the Commission's new proposal at the Council meeting. While we will obviously have to examine it in detail, Ireland hopes to support this proposal.

The second new proposal from the Commission is a proposal for amendment of the 2002 Council framework decision on combating trafficking in human beings. Vice President Barrot is expected to present details of this new proposal to the Council. It is understood that the new framework decision will include provisions on jurisdiction, victims' rights in criminal proceedings, victim support and prevention and monitoring. Ireland welcomes any proposal to strengthen measures to counter trafficking in human beings.

There was to have been a third new measure from the Commission, a proposal for a regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on the applicable law, jurisdiction, recognition of decisions and administrative measures in the area of successions and wills. However, we understand the item has now been withdrawn from the agenda for this Council meeting.

The Council will be asked to agree on the appointment of a new director of Europol. A selection board, comprising five members of the Europol management board, made a decision on the candidates at its meeting on December 2008. The board has recommended that the Council make the appointment in accordance with the outcome of the selection process. Ireland supports the recommendation of the Europol management board.

Following this there will be a discussion on a proposal for a Council directive on a single application procedure for a single permit for third country nationals to reside and work in the territory of a member state and on a common set of rights for third country workers legally residing in a member state. This proposal has been under discussion at various Council working groups since January 2008 but it has not been possible to reach agreement to date. The core issue in contention is the scope of the proposal, more specifically the categories of third country national worker to whom a common set of rights would apply. Ireland has not exercised its option to opt into this proposal within the three month period following publication. We will, however, have the option, subject to Oireachtas approval, to participate in the directive post adoption.

The next item will be a presentation by the Chairman of the European security research and innovation forum of its final report. It was established by European member states in September 2007 under the recommendation of its predecessor, the European security research advisory board. This is purely an information point.

The Council will also discuss a proposal to authorise Europol to enter into negotiations with the Russian Federation with a view to concluding an operational co-operation agreement. The Presidency is seeking political guidance on how to proceed with the opening of negotiations for an operational agreement between Europol and the Russian Federation. Europol has a strong operational interest in concluding such a co-operation agreement with Russia. Ireland supports the proposal, subject to appropriate data protection measures being determined.

The final point on the Council agenda falls under the category of any other business. This will be a list of information points and status updates which will be presented to the Council by the Commission and member states. Topics under this section include information on ongoing negotiations for a proposed free trade agreement between the European Community and Korea, the state of play of ratifications for an EU-US extradition and mutual legal assistance agreement, an update on funding available for the expansion of the e-justice on-line portal and information on a recent visit made by Vice-President Barrot and the Czech Minister of the Interior and Informatics, Ivan Langer, to the US. These will simply be information updates and, therefore, do not present any difficulties for Ireland.

Following the regular Council formation, the Council will sit in mixed committee formation and discuss a number of specific points in this format. This is a formation of the Council in which the EU member states are joined by the non-EU Schengen states. The first point will be an update from the Presidency on the current state of play regarding the development of the Schengen information system, known as SIS II. It is a system that allows the competent authorities in the member states to obtain information regarding certain categories of persons and property. Ireland has not been a party to this system but hopes to join it under the new SIS II version of the system.

Information will be provided on the Schengen evaluation of Switzerland following the abolition of border control at air borders. The full application of the provisions of the Schengen acquis to the Swiss Confederation commenced in mid-December 2008, with the exception of the air border provisions which came into effect on 29 March 2009. Ireland is pleased to see the admission of Switzerland into the Schengen area.

The Presidency will then inform the Council of progress with the visa information system. Ireland is not taking part in the adoption of the regulation due to our limited participation in Schengen, but it is expected that there will be a mechanism for co-operation which will allow for exchange of information between the visa information system and Ireland's visa system.

The final item will be an information point presented by the Commission and the Czech Minister for the Interior and Informatics following an official visit to the United States on 16 and 17 March. It is expected that they will present an overview of items discussed with the new US Administration.

In the last paragraph of the Minister of State's speaking note it states he will be present for the presentation by the Czech Minister for the Interior. Will the Minister of State raise with him an issue we raised in this committee last year? I refer to the ease with which Irish criminal gangsters can avail of training in the use of pistols and other heavy firearms in the Czech Republic, without any need to show a passport or any other form of identification, and without invigilation. It is a real problem.

In a recent gangland killing, the Garda Síochána stated it was satisfied that the training in the weapon used was availed of at a shooting range near Prague in the Czech Republic. We raised the issue last year with an official delegation and the chairman, who is the counterpart of the Minister of State, promised he would get back to us. I am not sure if the recently married clerk to the committee has received any correspondence to date. We should follow it up as it is an important issue in this jurisdiction.

I welcome what the Minister of State said on the proposal for an amendment to the Council framework on combatting trafficking in human beings. The Minister of State said penalties provided by national legislation were to be effective, proportionate and dissuasive but I am not sure if there has been even one conviction to date. If there has been one, he might let the committee know. The Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Act 2008 does not give sufficient protection to victims of trafficking. Ruhama, a body that is actively engaged in the provision of services in this area, offered services to 44 victims in 2007. The Minister of State will be interested to know that north of the Border there are official data on victims of trafficking and Northern Ireland offers secure accommodation to victims, as well as health care and welfare, which are not offered in this jurisdiction but would be useful. The Minister of State reaffirmed our priority to enter into SIS II but why are we not linked to the existing SIS system?

It is useful to receive a briefing such as this from the Minister of State and I wish him well in his deliberations.

I will try to raise the issue of training in the use of pistols with the Czech authorities. Having lived in the Czech Republic a number of years ago I know how easily available weapons can be. I will take the matter up with the Garda Commissioner and ask him to report back to the Deputy on the assurances, if any, he has received from his counterparts in the Czech Republic. It is a concern that no identification is required to be able to practise with firearms.

I will have to get back to the Deputy on the number of convictions for human trafficking. I have read of at least one court case in the newspapers, which related to a case involving an African gentleman in Waterford. We sometimes get into our heads the notion that trafficking is surreptitious but one of the problems I have encountered as Minister of State with responsibility for integration policy is that a great many people allow themselves to be trafficked voluntarily and pay large sums of money for the privilege. They travel through an airport with the traffickers, using false passports and documentation. We have an image that trafficking takes place underneath a truck or in the cargo hold of a ship but that is not the case. People from Africa or Asia pay between $6,000 and $13,000 for counterfeit documentation or a stolen batch of passports. The trafficker accompanies them on the aeroplane, taking the passport from them on various occasions, checks them into a hostel in Dublin and points them in the direction of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to make an asylum claim. It is more difficult for people who have co-operated in their own trafficking to come forward and give evidence. The Garda Síochána has tried to behave in accordance with the various OSCE conventions and understandings to provide support for victims and assistance for people who are prepared to give evidence.

I am awaiting guidance on the question of entering the SIS system because it is a technical matter. We are not fully participant in the Schengen information system but SIS II will be more limited in scope and suits us better than SIS I. If the Deputy wants a detailed note I can ensure one is provided for him.

If the Department sends it to the clerk he will pass it on.

This is a useful briefing on the EU Justice and Home Affairs Council. Item No. 4 relates to combatting the sexual exploitation of children in child pornography. An issue which is raised regularly is the freely accessible nature of this material via the Internet and the unregulated use of the Internet has implications for other areas. Will the proposal deal with this issue?

My other point relates to the proposal for a single application procedure for third-country nationals seeking permits to reside and work in the EU. The proposal seeks to standardise the procedure but I understand the decision will continue to fall to the individual member state. Is that correct?

We have no worries about the single procedure but are concerned about the rights that would flow under the proposal, involving common rights to education and housing, etc., for people taking up residence here. The Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and the Department of Education and Science are concerned about the extension of automatic access rights to education and housing. We agree with the approach being taken to set up a standard procedure.

Will the standardised procedure include time limits on permits? For example, they might last for six or 12 months. In addition, different skills are required in different member states, depending on the skills deficits in each. Can a person enter a member state with a permit for a specific type of employment and move on to another member state with the same permit? There might not be the same demand for the skills in question in the other member state.

It is an administrative procedure, particularly in terms of the first part. Issues relating to who enters a country are reserved for each state to address; we have different skills needs. The Immigration Bill is still passing through the Oireachtas and it will specify the categories of residency one can achieve in Ireland. We have not adopted a points system like that in the UK. We will go for a graduated system with the four steps to integration being work permits, green cards, permanent residency and citizenship. Ireland, like many European countries, is reluctant to seek EU approval for its system because our skills requirements differ from other countries. There will be no expectation at the table on Monday, or at EU level generally, for major co-operation on this. The single permit will standardise the procedures that will be used to give permits. The blue card proposal is at the other end of the migration chain and there is very little agreement on it; specialist skills needs vary from country to country. For example, Ireland and the UK have vastly different needs. I am not sure whether this answers the question but I hope it does.

Another question related to the Internet. This measure is designed to reach new criminal offences in the IT environment. There are new forms of sex abuse and exploitation that are facilitated by the use of IT and they will be criminalised by this proposal. New developments in the Internet will allow us to criminalise certain functions that involve sexual exploitation or child pornography. This includes knowingly obtaining access to child pornography to cover cases where viewing child pornography from websites, without downloading or storing the images, does not amount to possession of or procuring child pornography. The new offence of grooming is incorporated closely, following the wording agreed in the Council of Europe convention. The measure is an effort to keep pace with technology and it is obvious with regard to downloads. People may view the material and evade full prosecution if they do not download the images. The measure will allow us pursue them fully and criminalise such an activity.

I thank the Minister of State for his presentation and the information he made available; these exchanges are very important to us as parliamentarians. I wish he and his officials every success in what is obviously a very busy agenda for the Council meeting. His weekend will be spent preparing for the meeting with his team and we wish him well.

Regarding page 3 of the Minister of State's presentation, why have the measures pertaining to successions and wills been withdrawn? Was this done for technical or political reasons? Has an Irish candidate been considered for the position of director of Europol and, if so, is he still in the race?

I am pleased with the European Security Research and Innovation Forum; is there any Irish involvement in it? Many talented people in this country could make a contribution, particularly in the areas of software development, encryption and so on. Many successful Irish companies are world leaders in this field and could make a contribution if an opportunity were to arise.

I am happy that the EU is negotiating with the Russian Federation on a bilateral operation and co-operation agreement on policing matters. It is important that the EU should have a strong bilateral relationship with the Russian Federation as it is a key player globally. The Russian Federation is next door to the EU and is of great importance to both the EU and Ireland. The more bilateral agreements we reach with the Russian Federation the better for everyone.

How advanced is the e-justice online portal and what contribution will it make? I am very pleased that Ireland will be part of the Schengen information system II in one form or another. This is important because we have a common travel area with the UK and Northern Ireland and this should be linked to the SIS II.

The EU has been more than generous in its neighbourhood policy and has co-operated with Norway, Switzerland and other countries. The more co-operation the better. It is time for the EU to receive a contribution in return for the generosity of creating legislative measures and structures that benefit the European neighbourhood programme. Switzerland has significant cash resources and, given the current global economic crisis, I feel the Swiss Government, in conjunction with the European Investment Bank, has further contributions to make towards helping the economic situation in the EU. This should be considered in negotiations on different measures that see the EU contribute to Switzerland and other countries. The process could be expanded to the benefit of all.

I do not believe an Irish candidate was recommended for appointment to the Europol position. A UK candidate was recommended.

Was no Irish candidate considered?

Not as far as we are aware. Obviously, from time to time, people who have served in the UN will apply for such positions, unbeknownst to the Irish authorities, but to our knowledge nobody from Ireland applied. I understand a UK citizen will be appointed to the position.

On encryption, of course Irish companies could be of assistance. As a former Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs, Deputy Treacy will know that the country holding the EU Presidency determines what appears on the agenda. I suppose the wills and successions issue was taken off the table for scheduling reasons relating to a crowded agenda.

Co-operation with the Russian Federation is hugely important in criminal matters. Ireland's concern in this matter relates to the sharing of data and we will express this at the meeting. We need major assurances if we are to share intelligence on individuals with the Russian Federation. We must be comfortable that such sharing is done in a suitably protected data environment. We must be reassured if we are to involve the Russian Federation in the system.

The European e-justice system is at a very early stage of development. Some countries are ahead of others and the Commission has indicated that some limited funds are available to advance efforts in this regard. I thank the former Minister of State for his insightful questions.

That concludes the discussion. I thank the Minister of State and his officials for attending and I thank committee members for their contributions.

The joint committee adjourned at 3.50 p.m. sine die.
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