JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT, HERITAGE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT debate -
Tuesday, 18 Nov 2008

Business of Joint Committee.

Chairman

The first item concerns the minutes of the meeting on 4 November which have been circulated. Are they agreed? Agreed.

The next item on the agenda is correspondence. The first item of correspondence, No. 260, is the 2007 annual report of An Bord Pleanála. We have had representatives of An Bord Pleanála here before and we will note the report.

The next item, No. 261, is a newsletter on homelessness from FEANTSA, the European Organisation for the Homeless. We will be having a discussion on homelessness here in a few minutes so we will note that correspondence.

Item No. 262 is another newsletter on environmental issues from GLOBE, an independent international think-tank on environmental policy, which we will note. Item No. 263 is a special report on new EU legislation published by the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny, which we will note.

Item No. 264 concerns two items of correspondence. The first is a request from the DETA, Domestic Effluent Treatment Association, to make a presentation on wastewater treatment. We have agreed that we will meet that organisation. We have had the Irish Agrément Board here to discuss dealing with wastewater treatment for individual houses in one-off rural housing. We also spoke to the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department about it and we wanted to meet a representative of the industry.

Second, a company called Biocycles wrote to us with a complaint. The clerk to the committee has been in touch with the company stating that we will hear from the industry body rather than an individual company about their particular problems. I do not agree with giving a platform at an Oireachtas committee for one commercial organisation. It would give it an unfair advantage over some of its competitors. Therefore we will meet its association which is called the Domestic Effluent Treatment Association. Is that agreed? Agreed. There is a second group also. Approximately 29 companies were licensed by the Environmental Protection Agency. There are two groups, so we will have a short presentation. We could invite both of them for talks next week on 25 November if the clerk can arrange that. There has been contact with them already, so we will invite them in, hopefully on 25 November. If the Biocycles company, which wrote to us separately, is part of the delegation, that is fine. It is not for us to dictate who should be on the delegation.

Item No. 265 is an invitation from the Irish Institute of European Affairs to the launch of its latest publication. I suggest we note that correspondence.

Item No. 266 is a letter from Kevin Thorpe Limited, Newtown, Adamstown, County Wexford about planning permission. He is asking for a change to the current legislation regarding a period of planning permission. Planning permission lasts for five or seven years. Because of the economic downturn he is requesting us to consider proposals to extend the timescale for planning permission. I am sure there are two sides to that story, however. We can note that correspondence.

Deputy Michael Fitzpatrick

I would like to ask about the last meeting we had with the people from Mayo.

Chairman

Yes, we are coming to that. It is the next item on the agenda.

Deputy Michael Fitzpatrick

I am not touching on the Mayo one. We were to see European circulars which contain some references to universality of planning permission deadlines. I am told that in some counties it is five years and in others it is seven. Rather than having that disparity, it should be a universal figure.

Chairman

The planning Act determines that. My understanding is that the period is five years. I do not have a great appetite for extending that or even proposing it.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

When was that last reviewed?

Chairman

The planning Act went through the Dáil in 2002.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

Then it is well past the time. Some of us were not Members at that time. I would not see anything wrong with discussing it and having it reviewed.

Chairman

Okay. I think a new planning Bill is scheduled for next year. As a result of the Mayo plan and the way in which the ministerial directive came about — we agreed the need for it, but the manner in which it was done under the legislation was a bit abrupt — we could make several useful suggestions for the planning Bill next year.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

I do not think we are overloaded with items to discuss. Could we fit it in? I know there is only a very short time left in this year and the Chairman is saying that something will happen early next year. Planning permission is very important, nonetheless, and the more we discuss it, the healthier it is.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

I received a copy of this correspondence as well by e-mail. I would take a very measured approach to this matter. That would be my instinct.

Planning permissions are already quite extensive with regard to the periods in respect of which they are granted. One of the difficulties that has arisen in recent years — in respect of which there has been precious little Government action — relates to land hoarding and land banking in the interests of increasing profits. If we should be doing anything at present, it should be to ensure that no further land hoarding or land banking takes place. If a person obtains planning permission in respect of a development, he or she should get moving in respect of it. The construction industry needs a boost and there is nothing like a deadline to get someone going.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

Deputy Ciarán Lynch might not be aware of what happens in rural areas. I am more concerned with regard to one-off developments in such areas and I was not referring to the aspect of the planning process about which he is concerned.

I am aware of people living in rural areas who, as a result of their financial circumstances, might not be able to build within the period allocated in respect of a commission. The cost relating to reapplying for planning permission is huge. Those are the people to whom I was referring and not those to whom Deputy Ciarán Lynch alluded who have land banks.

Deputy Ciarán Cuffe

It is important that if people obtain planning permission, they should proceed to build. There is provision under the Act for local authorities to place a ten-year timeframe in place in respect of substantial developments. That has, more or less, worked quite well and has allowed major developments to be completed over a longer period.

A previous speaker stated that the Act was passed six or eight years ago and is perhaps due for a review. Planning permissions can be viewed in exactly the same way. If one has a permission, one should proceed to build. There is a danger that if one allowed planning permissions to remain in place for many years, those with properties adjoining in respect of which a permission had been granted might not even know of the existence of such a permission and might be shocked when the JCBs suddenly move in. In my view, five years is a reasonable period for permissions to last.

Senator Camillus Glynn

There is justification for both points of view. I am not trying to walk on both sides of the road but I am of the view that in circumstances where just cause can be provided as to why a permission was not taken up within the prescribed time, consideration should be given to granting an extension. I take the point made by Deputies Ciarán Lynch and Cuffe. However, I agree with Deputy Christy O'Sullivan. I am aware of a couple of cases where planning permission was sought and granted but where financial circumstances precluded the people concerned from proceeding with construction. These individuals did not delay building in order that the value of the sites in question might increase, it was merely their financial circumstances which stymied their efforts. We should consider such instances as cases where extensions might be granted.

Chairman

There seems to be an interesting cross-section of differing views. We may perhaps discuss this matter but not before the new year. Our schedule for the four weeks leading up to the Christmas recess is fairly well set.

Senator Camillus Glynn

May I make a suggestion?

Chairman

There are definitely two sides to this matter.

Senator Camillus Glynn

That is correct.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I am of the view that a good solution was put forward in the context of discussing this matter when the review of the planning Acts takes place next year. Even with the best will in the world, it will be February before someone will be in a position to come before the committee and address it on this matter. The heads of a Bill might be in place at that stage.

Chairman

Other issues will also come before the committee for discussion.

Deputy Phil Hogan

Such as the An Bord Pleanála report.

Deputy James Bannon

I accept that it may not be directly related to this matter, but members are aware that a waste management scheme was introduced at the end of 2007. A number of farmers applied for planning permission and the normal local authority rules obtained in respect of processing their applications. However, objections were made in certain areas and the cases involved have gone before An Bord Pleanála. The people involved are in dire straits because they have been informed by officials of An Bord Pleanála that due to staff constraints, a decision may not be made in respect of their cases for two or three months. Time is running out for these people because they must draw down their farm waste management grants by the end of December.

We must consider a compromise for people who find themselves in situations such as that to which I refer. The Ministers for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Environment, Heritage and Local Government should work together to ensure that individuals whose developments were delayed as a result of appeals to An Bord Pleanála should not lose their grants. There is an urgent need for the Cabinet to deal with this matter.

Chairman

Is the Deputy proposing that we write a letter to——

Deputy James Bannon

I propose that we contact both Ministers to encourage them to take action in respect of the small number of people who may be denied their farm waste management grants.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

That is happening in every area. I second the proposal.

Chairman

It is proposed, therefore, that the committee write to the Ministers for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Environment, Heritage and Local Government in respect of cases relating to the farm waste management scheme, where planning permission has been delayed either at local authority or An Bord Pleanála level, suggesting that consideration be given to resolving the difficulties involved. Everyone is aware that the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food has taken a strong line on this matter. However, we will add our voice to those that have already been heard.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

This matter is not only relevant to An Bord Pleanála.

Chairman

The proposal also relates to local authorities.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

Some people have applied to develop projects and there is no limit regarding the amount of time it can take for a local authority planning office to deal with applications relating to exempt developments. Planning officers can take six or eight months to grant permission. There is no statutory limit.

Chairman

We will draft a letter along the lines proposed. Members are all familiar with this problem.

The next item of correspondence is No. 267, namely, a request to invite the Ombudsman to address the joint committee on local authority waiver systems in respect of refuse charges.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

Members may be aware that the Ombudsman recently published quite a substantial report on the waiver scheme and how it is administered. That report is extremely critical of the current system and sets down a clear recommendation to the effect that the introduction of a national waiver scheme should be considered. The Ombudsman stated: "I found the multiplicity and diversity of schemes and the absence in some cases of any waiver provision to be surprising. Overall, I concluded that the system is a shambles."

The Ombudsman has done extremely valuable work in compiling this report. If she were to come before the committee and disclose the contents of her report with members, she would do us a service. In the aftermath of such a meeting, we might be able to give some direction to the Minister and the Department regarding how the waiver could be dealt with in a more equitable, measured and fair way. I wrote to the Chairman as a means to get matters moving in respect of this matter.

Chairman

I read the Ombudsman's report and I have a slightly different take on it. I do not believe there should be a national waiver system; I am of the view that an allowance, similar to those granted in respect of telephones, electricity and television, should be provided through the social welfare free schemes. Pensioners and social welfare recipients should receive an allowance as part of their payments. My next door neighbour is an old age pensioner and she pays the full rate. Local authorities have zero involvement in waste collection in certain counties, including Laois. This is not, therefore, a local authority issue in many counties.

The solution lies in providing an allowance through the social welfare system. Each of us receives a 20% tax break in respect of our waste collection. However, my next door neighbour, whose income is 75% lower than mine, does not receive such a tax break. The taxation system is unfair to some people. As in respect of some other areas, the solution lies in the social welfare system

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

Cork City Council pays €3.5 million per year to subsidise the waiver scheme. That is a substantial sum of money. It is, therefore, an issue for local authorities that provide waiver schemes. I am aware that some schemes are contradictory in nature. Waterford local authority operates on the basis that if people qualify for a social welfare payment, they qualify for a waiver. Other schemes have different criteria. I have read the ombudsman's very detailed report in which she mentions the suggestion of the Department of Social and Family Affairs underwriting it. Other options have also been looked at. It would be a worthwhile exercise for this committee to take on board what she says.

Senator Paudie Coffey

I support the request to invite the Ombudsman in to discuss the issue. We need to be made aware of her exact findings and her thoughts on the issue. I know she has produced a report. I agree with the Chairman; the Department of Social and Family Affairs has a role to play with regard to a national strategy for a waiver scheme or allowance. However, the co-ordinating Department, the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, needs to come to the committee to explain its ideas because it is the umbrella over all the local authorities and waste management groups with regard to the national waste management strategy.

The recent debacle, whereby markets for recycled product throughout the country have disappeared, should also be a matter of priority for this committee. The consequences and implications of that will have serious negative effects on waste management infrastructure here, whether private or public. Much good work has been done throughout the country with regard to promoting and developing waste recycling initiatives. It would be worthwhile to invite the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to the committee to discuss the waiver schemes and the future of recycling infrastructure here. That is something that is urgently required due to the markets and the pressure on the system.

Deputy Phil Hogan

Briefly, the time to catch the waiver is when a company is getting its licence as a private waste management operator, or by dealing directly with a local authority. There is a way to marry all these together. However, it would be useful, even if we have to wait until January, to invite in the waste management association, the Department and the Ombudsman to discuss the situation.

Chairman

All right.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

If the Ombudsman is suggesting that the waiver schemes in place are a shambles, it is important to hear more from her. That is a strong statement and it is important to hear her views. Perhaps she has ideas we have not come up with.

Chairman

There is general agreement on that and on the waste management issue. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The next item is a second letter from Deputy Ciarán Lynch requesting the joint committee to look at the issue of the cost of storing the e-voting machines.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

A number of matters gave rise to this correspondence. The obvious one is the concept of e-voting in elections. I assume members have their own opinions on this practice. I have a strong opinion on the issue, but I would not try to pre-empt the findings of any discussion the committee might have. The issue has dragged on long enough. Since the machines were first purchased, they were used as a test case in one election. Many elections, referenda and European and local elections have taken place since then by traditional means. I understand from the Minister the voting machines will not be used in next year's European and local elections.

During all this time the machines have been in storage. I believe that 60% of the machines are in storage in one facility and 40% are in various locations that range from one-year to 25-year tenders. Considering that the shelf life of these machines is at best 20 years, as I was informed by Deputy Batt O'Keeffe when he was Minister of State in this area, and that it is some time since we bought these machines, why have they been signed into storage for a period longer than their shelf life?

There is no direction from the Minister on this. I asked him previously at Question Time to set up a group to examine the situation. There has been a report on his desk since before he was in the Department, but he seems to be leaving it there. The report has been on the desk for a number of years, but no action has arisen from it. Given the current economic situation and the millions spent on the machines, it is beholden on this committee to make a value judgment on the issue. We cannot direct the Minister on what to do, but there is enough cross-party representation on the committee for us to make a value judgment.

We could deal with this in a similar way to how we dealt with the issue of the draft register of electors. We came to agreement on the most substantial parts of the draft register. In the interest of the cost to the public, this committee should now discuss the issue and give its value judgment on e-voting.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

Who did the report and where is it?

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

The report was done by the electoral commissioners and was completed in 2004 or 2006. It has been on the desk since. I could provide the Deputy with the report if he wishes. Since it was published, no action has been taken on it.

Deputy Ciarán Cuffe

I agree with Deputy Lynch; we were sold a pup with this. There is no significant public confidence in the e-voting initiative. However, having spent €40 million or €50 million on the initiative, we must consider carefully where to go from here. I appreciate the Minister has had a report for some time, but I would not be surprised if he decided to jettison the e-voting machines. On the bright side, the costs of the long-term storage has reduced substantially over the past year or so. I welcome the initiative of the central storage. I see no prospect of public confidence in e-voting unless there is a voter-verifiable audit trail and I see no great prospect of that happening with the existing machinery. My preference would be to dump it.

Deputy Johnny Brady

I was elected under the e-voting system in 2002 and it was a very successful system. I was elected under the old system also. The e-voting was very successful. However, there was much hullabaloo about a certain politician losing her seat. People lost seats and other people gained seats. That happens in every election and I would not blame the machines.

Deputy Phil Hogan

It has nothing to do with the machines.

Deputy Johnny Brady

The e-voting was very successful in the three constituencies in which it operated for that election. Further constituencies were to be included in the following elections, but that did not happen. If we are not going to return to e-voting, it is time something was done with the machines. I have no problem with the committee deciding to look into the situation, but those of us who went through the e-voting system saw nothing wrong with it.

Deputy Phil Hogan

We should look at the situation. I cannot understand how it has taken so long to come to a conclusion on the issue, particularly when there are finite resources in the country for so many things. I do not understand where is the block. I would have thought the Minister would be delighted to salvage some money from this debacle that has gone on for a number of years. At this stage we should either get rid of the machines or decide to use them. I understand the machines that are there at present will be obsolete — the issue of going ahead with electronic voting in the future is a separate issue — so we should get rid of them, save a few quid and do something else with the money.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

We must first establish whether the machines are worth anything or whether anyone would buy them. If they are worth nothing, they should be disposed of. If they were worth nothing they could be disposed of and the €50 million or whatever they cost written off. I was on the Joint Committee on Environment and Local Government when Deputy Cullen was the relevant Minister and the decision was made. When we were discussing whether they were reliable the decision had already been made to purchase them. We found in hindsight that we were wasting our time. It was not as Deputy Brady said that there was something wrong with the machines. The machines were abandoned because an independent investigation into them found they could not guarantee them to be reliable. It was not for the reason of anybody losing or not losing his or her seat. It could not be established that they were 100% reliable. That is why they were abandoned and why we are now in the dilemma we are in. I would go along with bringing the issue to a head regardless of the embarrassment of dumping them now, melting them down, scrapping them or whatever needs to be done with them if they are worth nothing. If anybody agrees to buy them we should sell them quickly.

Deputy James Bannon

I was in the Seanad as spokesperson for the environment and this matter was debated repeatedly there. We established an independent commission which reported that it had no confidence in the system which is the reason they were not used in the 2007 general election. I believe they are duds. The commission probably did not put it as bluntly as that. They should be scrapped. It is a great waste of public money storing those machines at various locations throughout the country. As Deputy Cuffe said the public has no confidence in the machines. We should cut our losses at this stage rather than trying to pretend they will be used at some future date. They will not be used. The independent commission published its report. The Minister, Deputy Cullen, after making a case for the machines had to agree with the findings of the independent commission's report prior to the general election. I do not understand why a competent body like that independent commission would change its mind on it now.

Chairman

Can we agree to put this in the work programme for 2009?

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

I thank my fellow committee members for supporting the proposal. I prefaced my remarks by suggesting that they withhold their own value judgments on it. We are almost like a hanging jury at the moment and there is a self-fulfilling prophesy to the thing. We are all very familiar with it. We need to get the issue on the table and we need the committee to determine an outcome on it. I thank the other members for their support.

Chairman

We will have it on the work programme in the new year. The next item of correspondence is item 269, a letter from Councillor Martin Miley of Fontstown, Athy, County Kildare, in connection with a planning application for landfill in County Kildare. He states permission was granted by An Bord Pleanála. It went to the High Court and came back to An Bord Pleanála and permission was granted by An Bord Pleanála. He is complaining at the cost of €300,000 for the entire episode. He is asking why An Bord Pleanála can get away with wasting — as he calls it — €300,000 of taxpayers' money.

Deputy Phil Hogan

The councillor is 100% right. The matter is worthy of note. When the chairman of An Bord Pleanála appears before us to discuss the board's report it would be an opportunity to raise the issue. This is part of the problem mentioned by a number of members in other cases with local authorities in recent times. The taxpayer is an easy target and it is not personal money they need to cough up in these matters. It is State money and we are entitled to investigate it.

Chairman

Should we send the letter to An Bord Pleanála and advise it that we will raise it with the chairman at his next appearance? We should not involve this committee in the plan.

Deputy Phil Hogan

The councillor is entitled to a reply sooner than waiting for the——

Chairman

We will tell him what we are proposing to do.

Deputy Phil Hogan

We should do. However, Councillor Miley should get an interim reply. He is probably not getting a reply in correspondence he is having himself. We could be of assistance to him.

Chairman

Should we send An Bord Pleanála a letter asking it to comment?

Deputy Phil Hogan

Yes.

Deputy Michael Fitzpatrick

I fully agree. This is a very small rural community. The local people wanted to protect the environment in the area and fought it tooth and nail all the way. They now see that An Bord Pleanála was able to spend €300,000 when the community needed to beg, borrow and steal to get the money to defend it. They think it is an abuse of power by other people. They did not have the same facility to raise funds.

Deputy Phil Hogan

We should ask for a response.

Chairman

We will ask An Bord Pleanála.

Deputy Johnny Brady

Are we inviting representatives of An Bord Pleanála to appear before the committee?

Chairman

They will come in due course.

Deputy Johnny Brady

Will we be discussing varying issues or just this particular issue?

Chairman

It will be to discuss its annual report. We could raise this issue at that meeting.

Deputy Johnny Brady

There is considerable unrest among individuals at the delay in An Bord Pleanála making decisions, which is outrageous. Even decisions on one-off houses are taking six months and more. For some businesses the decisions could take anything from a year to 18 months. It is not good enough. Jobs are being lost with the economy in a downturn. An Bord Pleanála is responsible for job losses in certain areas because of its delays.

Chairman

We will ask for a response to this matter and we will invite the chairman of An Bord Pleanála to appear before the committee to discuss the annual report. For the information of the committee the councillors in the area have invited me to go down there and meet them in person in the next week or two and I have agreed.

The next item of correspondence comes from the library and research unit regarding climate change. I note that.

The next item, No. 271, comes from Deputy Naughten and is a request for the Save Leitrim Campaign to make a presentation to the joint committee on the electoral boundary report. The committee has completed its consideration of that report.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

We have all received correspondence from that group. It does not seem to be able to grasp the fact that the horse has now bolted and that nothing can be done about it. All that is left is Report Stage in the Dáil.

Chairman

Our committee cannot do anything at this stage.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

I have every sympathy for Leitrim as I told representatives of the group in my replies. However, there is not much we can do about it.

Chairman

That is as much as we can do.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

The people of Leitrim could have voted for Michael Comiskey or Senator John Ellis and they would have a Deputy. They have complained about having no Deputy.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

I represent north Leitrim. As it was, it was bad enough with one third of Leitrim in the Sligo-North Leitrim constituency and two thirds in the Roscommon-South Leitrim constituency. What has happened now is that the county has been divided right down the middle with half of it in the Sligo-North Leitrim constituency and the other half in the Roscommon-South Leitrim constituency. This does not give the county an opportunity to elect a Deputy to Dáil Éireann. I have also mentioned this matter in the Dáil. Unfortunately it is an independent commission, apparently, that decides. There is no recourse to appeal.

Deputy Phil Hogan

There is a good reason for it being independent from all parties, based on what happened in the past.

Deputy Johnny Brady

I wonder how independent it is.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

Unfortunately we have seen some fierce decisions made in the recent local electoral boundary revision. One half of the very small village of Ballysadare, County Sligo, is in the Enniscrone electoral area which is 30 miles away and the other half is in the Ballymote electoral area which is 15 miles away from the centre of population. Undoubtedly something will need to be done. While it is acceptable to let the commission make its decision, politicians on an all-party basis should have some input into the final decision that is taken. I know it will not be possible to get agreement on everything. However, it is wrong to have a community split in two.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

If the terms of reference prohibited a town from being split, Ballysadare could not have been split. It depends on the terms of reference. If the Government's terms of reference to the commission included that it could not split a county then it could not do so. The terms of reference can be laid down by the Minister. Responsibility rests with whoever drew up the terms of reference.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

The terms of reference state that no county should be split where possible.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

If they left out "where possible" it could not be split.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

Apparently that is the situation.

Deputy Johnny Brady

With the second division made in County Meath approximately seven or eight parishes have been split, which is worse again. I wonder about this commission about which we hear so much of it being independent. I feel it is done by the civil servants and just rubber-stamped by the commission. That is my view. Perhaps I am wrong. I do not think the commission——

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

It is done on the basis of numbers. There is no question about that. A line is drawn. If 3,000 more people are needed, 3,000 people are moved to one side of the line, even if it leaves 3,000 people in the same area on the other side of the line. No regard is shown for the people who live in the area.

Deputy Johnny Brady

Absolutely right.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

That will have to change.

Chairman

My view is that the membership of the commission is remarkably restrictive. It consists of clerks from the Oireachtas, a few officials from the Department and one or two others. It does not have the requisite breadth of experience. Those who established the commission decided how it should be comprised. As an organisation, it is far too small and unrepresentative.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I can empathise with the people of Leitrim. A similar problem has been encountered in County Carlow for many years. We get on with it. That is all we can do. The commission is independent. One third of County Carlow is in the Wicklow constituency.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

Will the committee officials reply to the——

Chairman

We will explain that we——

Deputy Ciarán Cuffe

I thought the problem in County Carlow had been resolved.

Senator Paudie Coffey

That is a temporary arrangement.

Deputy Ciarán Cuffe

It is good to have a woman representing the county at last.

Deputy Phil Hogan

It is like the Progressive Democrats: if in doubt, leave them out.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

The last temporary arrangement lasted ten years.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I wish we had a woman running.

Chairman

We will reply on the basis that this committee has completed its consideration of the work of the independent commission. All we can say, at this stage, is that the issues we have raised should be taken into consideration in the terms of reference of any future commission.

Item No. 272 is a follow-up note and declaration resulting from the EUROFORES interparliamentary meeting in Budapest. The meeting in question took place at the Hungarian Parliament buildings on 7 November last. I suggest we note that correspondence.

Item No. 273 is a list of proposals for EU legislation from the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny. We will note it.

Item No. 274 is a letter from Mr. Des Dowling, who is an assistant secretary at the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. The joint committee raised the issue of the role of the local government auditor at one of its previous meetings. I do not think the auditor has ever appeared before this committee, even though we are responsible for monitoring local government matters. We have invited the auditor to attend a meeting of the committee. It has been suggested that he may be available on 2 December next. We will see if we can accommodate him as soon as possible. We have never had any dealings with that organisation. The e-mail from the Department says the auditor will not be able to discuss queries relating to the audits of individual local authorities. We understand that. I think it would be useful for this committee to meet the local government auditor to discuss his work.

Item No. 275 is a brochure from the Local Authorities Members Association relating to its winter seminar which will be held in Castlebar on 26 and 27 November. Is it agreed to note the correspondence? Agreed. I understand Senator Glynn has indicated his interest in attending. I am taking the straight view that as it is a local government matter, it falls under the remit of this committee. Is anyone else interested in attending? Is Senator Coffey interested? I understand one or two Members of the Oireachtas will speak at the conference. If anyone from the Opposition side is interested in accompanying Senator Glynn, he or she should contact the clerk to the committee.

Deputy Phil Hogan

Where is it being held?

Chairman

It is being held in Castlebar, County Mayo, on 26 and 27 November next. If Senator Coffey is interested in going, we will agree to send two representatives. Senator Glynn has already indicated that he is prepared to go.

Item No. 276 is the Fehily report on the Ringsend wastewater treatment service, which has been sent to us by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. The project in question was carried out under the public private partnership programme. The Minister commissioned an independent report into the many issues that arose in that context. The report has been issued. It is proposed to develop a design, build and operate wastewater treatment system in every county in Ireland. We should ask the author of the report and the relevant officials to address the committee. Mistakes were made and lessons need to be learned. We will arrange to do that as soon as practicable. Is that agreed? Agreed.

We have all seen the letter from the register of electors awareness committee. Draft reports on the recent visits by delegations from the joint committee to the annual conference of the Association of Municipal Authorities of Ireland in Sligo, the European waste water summit in Brussels and the European homelessness conference in Cardiff have been circulated. I thank Deputies Bannon and Hogan and Senator Glynn for representing the committee at the conferences. Is it agreed to approve the draft reports and lay them before the Houses? Agreed. That brings our consideration of correspondence to a conclusion.