JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT, HERITAGE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT debate -
Tuesday, 24 Mar 2009

Business of Joint Committee.

Chairman

The minutes of the meeting of 10 March have been circulated. Are they agreed? Agreed.

The next item is correspondence. The first item is No. 391, a letter sent by Deputy Creighton, deferred from our last meeting, requesting the joint committee to investigate the planning department at Dublin City Council with reference to its decision on the former Jury's Hotel site in Dublin 4. Members will recall that we wrote to the city manager who sent us a copy of the submission he had made at the oral hearing of An Bord Pleanála. Deputy Creighton replied that she was not happy with the city manager's response and we deferred the matter. I do not think we can pursue it further. It is noted that the city manager forwarded the submission he had made to An Bord Pleanála. Is that agreed? Agreed. The Deputy has several other avenues open to her to investigate this matter, if she so chooses.

Deputy Michael Fitzpatrick

The final two paragraphs of the city manager's submission answer many of the questions raised by Deputy Creighton. Mr. Tierney states that, with the re-engagement of all parties, it should be possible to create an appropriate solution for the Ballsbridge area. That this is his recommendation to the council, with a local area plan, should be the focus of our work from here on. That would be very appropriate.

Chairman

The city manager is recommending the drawing up of a local area plan for Ballsbridge. Public representatives can make an input at that stage.

The next item is No. 393, Europe’s World newsletter which is noted. No. 394 is the GLOBE-Net newsletter which is also noted. No. 395 is an urban policy research paper on the urban “underclass” from the European Urban Knowledge Network which is noted, as is No. 396, a European Water Partnership newsletter.

No. 397 is a proposal to establish an international court for the environment. There was a presentation today on the subject of "An International Court for the Environment: an idea whose time has come" . The correspondence is noted.

No. 398 is a list of decisions taken at the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny which is noted. No. 399 is a letter from the Local Government Auditor, including a copy of his activity report, following his appearance at the committee. The correspondence is noted. Members are free to study the report and make individual comments.

No. 400 is a ministerial press release on the nuclear free local authorities seminar which is noted, as is No. 401, a ministerial press release on restrictions on the destruction of hedgerows from 1 March. No. 402 is a newsletter on environmental issues from Globe International.

No. 403 is a letter from An Bord Pleanála in response to a further letter sent by the committee expressing its dissatisfaction at the original reply from An Bord Pleanála on the matter of costs in the case of the Usk landfill site in County Kildare. We will circulate the letter to those involved at local level, as well as to the local public representatives. In its letter An Bord Pleanála sets out the cost of defending the case as €221,850, comprising the costs paid to the legal representatives of Usk and District Residents Association — €157,043 — and the costs of An Bord Pleanála — €64,807. This would have been an extraordinary burden for the local residents association to carry and because it succeeded, An Bord Pleanála ended up paying its costs. I think the local community will be anxious to receive that information. A further case is up for judicial review; it went back through the planning process and is again before the courts.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

Did they win the case?

Chairman

Yes. They sought a judicial review and An Bord Pleanála withdrew its defence. The applicant reapplied for planning permission for the landfill and the matter is back before the High Court having been before An Bord Pleanála.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

Did the council grant planning permission the second time?

Chairman

I am not sure, although I suspect not. One way or another, it was appealed a second time to An Bord Pleanála. It is back on the merry-go-round. We will send the Deputy the information.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

It does not make sense if it cost €220,000 in the first place and is now back in the same situation; it could cost another €220,000. It could all come to €500,000 for nothing.

Chairman

I will read the letter, as part of the answer to the Deputy's question lies therein. We have before us a short letter from An Bord Pleanála on the quashing of its original decision on the development proposal in question. The residents succeeded in having the decision quashed and won their costs. The letter goes on to state An Bord Pleanála is defending its latest decision in judicial review proceedings in the High Court. In other words, the matter came before An Bord Pleanála again and is facing a judicial review for a second time.

I met the residents' association and one of the reasons for the latest judicial review is the High Court's first decision stated the same members of An Bord Pleanála were not to be involved in the second decision. The residents believe several members of An Bord Pleanála who were involved in the first decision were also involved in the second. They consider this goes against the decision made in the first judicial review; therefore, they are facing a second judicial review. In other words, planning permission was again granted and a second judicial review is taking place in the High Court. Up to now the residents have had to find funds to fight the case for a second time. We will await the outcome and ask An Bord Pleanála to keep us informed about the case, including costs. Is that satisfactory?

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

Yes.

Chairman

We will send a copy of the correspondence to the relevant persons at a local level in Kildare.

Item No. 2009/404 is a request to release correspondence 2009/390 for publication in a newspaper article. This relates to the Dublin Docklands Development Authority and we have no problem with the correspondence being published; it is correspondence we received a couple of weeks ago. The Dublin Docklands Development Authority originally told us it would evaluate certain properties but we are now told this will be included in the annual accounts. It was indicated the information would be released in a few weeks but this has been postponed. Is it agreed that we pass on the documentation? Agreed.

Deputy Johnny Brady

Is the Chairman finished with correspondence?

Chairman

Just two short items remain.

Regarding the Dublin Docklands Development Authority, we agreed that we would visit the authority on 7 April but that is budget day. We will have to provisionally reschedule until the afternoon of Tuesday, 21 April because the Dáil returns after the Easter recess on Wednesday, 22 April. The meeting with the Dublin Docklands Development Authority will take place instead of a committee meeting here.

We note item No. 2009/405, a report on the Asia-Europe Environment Forum. Item No. 2009/406 relates to a preliminary study of the establishment of an electoral commission in Ireland. We are given notice of the consultation period and an invitation to submit observations. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy John Gormley, commissioned the report and we have the details. I suggest individual members study the matter and make individual submissions rather than the committee making a joint submission.

The following circulars from the Department to city and county managers have been copied to us. The first relates to the control and monitoring of local authorities' contributions to the general government balance. The second relates to the 8% reduction in professional fees. The third is about pension related deductions for public servants. The fourth is about development debtors and pension levies. The fifth relates to the preparation and submission of financial data for the calculation of the general government balance as at 31 December 2008. The last circular relates to the format of AFS 2008 and other accounting issues.

As a matter of course we ask the Department to forward to the committee any circulars sent to city and county managers. This keeps us aware of what is going on. We did not receive such circulars until we chased them down during the week; therefore, we will write requesting that all areas of the Department comply with the request about circulars sent to city and county managers.

Deputy Phil Hogan

On the matter of circulars, during questions in the Dáil on 11 March we asked the Minister for a breakdown of changes that might be made to allocations proposed in the Estimates for 2009. These circulars indicating major changes in the financing of local government in 2009 were issued to various local authorities on 13 February. The Minister chose not to relay this information. I ask that he come before the committee next week because these circulars will have major implications for spending already announced on capital projects. The revenue account is supposed to be balanced; no capital projects will start and a review is to be undertaken of contracts signed to this point. Local authorities can now do nothing without permission from the Department of Finance.

I understand we are in a difficult financial climate but I would have thought that when the Minister got a chance on 11 March to inform us of changes in the funding mechanisms available to him, he would have taken it. There is to be a major shift in projects already approved and Estimates already agreed. I ask that the Minister and his officials come before us to let us know the exact implications of these circulars for local authorities because we are operating in a vacuum. I have seen the response of one local authority to the Department and there will be major implications for water, wastewater, housing and road schemes. One local authority has told me it cannot even get permission to sign a contract to purchase bitumen for road maintenance. This is a new situation and I would like the Minister to give the committee the explanation he did not give in the Dail.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

I second the proposal made by Deputy Hogan asking the Minister to come before the committee next week. An embargo has been placed on the initiation of road works by local authorities. Even where funding has been allocated, local authorities have been told not to spend it. There seems to be an administrative element to this also. Local authorities which develop contracts in the future will only be able to do so on a case by case basis. The difficulty of administrating contracts and procurement on a case by case basis will lead to a bureaucracy which will cost more to run than the current system. It is incumbent on the Minister, therefore, to attend the committee next week to explain what is happening. For example, Cork County Council had a series of road works that was to begin in the coming weeks but this is now on hold. Nobody knows when these works will take place.

Deputy Michael Fitzpatrick

I concur with what has been said. A great deal of money could be wasted in administration; going back and forth from councils to the Department. The health and safety regulations which we debated last year have put a heavy burden on county councils and taken a lot of money from their funds which could have been used for essential maintenance work. Because of the health and safety issues involved we could not say much about it at the time. I would like the Minister to come before the committee to outline his thinking in order that the general public can be made aware of what is happening. The press coverage we are getting is not good.

Chairman

When I heard about it, I sought further information. The memos seem to state a local authority cannot even use money it has collected and which is on deposit in the bank as development funds.

Deputy Phil Hogan

The Chairman is right. The money has been frozen. Fingal County Council has €70 million on deposit in development levies. It is one of the fastest growing areas for commercial and residential development and has a lot of commitments but cannot use the money.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

Some €1.2 billion was held on deposit by local authorities at the end of last year.

Chairman

That was in 2007.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

It was at the start of 2008. The figure emerged following an inspection by the Comptroller and Auditor General. Local authorities have been doing their best since to spend the money but we do not want it to begin accumulating again. The development levy is ring-fenced for specific projects which should be under way by now because they are at the stage where contracts have been signed. The Minister should come before the committee next week, not just to talk about road programmes but to talk about issues relating to this money.

Chairman

Is the proposal for the Minister or his officials to be invited?

Deputy Phil Hogan

The Minister.

Chairman

We have no idea whether he is available to attend next Tuesday's meeting.

Deputy Michael Fitzpatrick

If he is not available, his officials should come.

Chairman

We shall request that the Minister attend but if he is not available, we will ask somebody to come on his behalf, whether it be his officials or the Minister of State. The officials who drafted the circulars are the ones who understand them.

Deputy Michael Fitzpatrick

Is the Chairman talking about the circulars on local authority funding?

Chairman

I am talking about the six circulars we were discussing. Whether the Minister is available, this will be our main item next week.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

How will we know whether he is available?

Chairman

We will accept his word.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

Is that all?

Chairman

What else can I do?

Deputy Johnny Brady

I hope the Chairman does not mind me returning to No. 401 because it deals with a very important issue. I initially thought the reference to the destruction of hedgerows meant their removal but I have been told by Deputy Fitzpatrick that it means one cannot cut verges or breast hedges between 1 March and September. This is causing a lot of harm and placing restrictions on farmers, many of whom think very highly of their hedges and verges and cut them a couple of times a year. It is actually causing accidents because signposts are becoming covered by weeds and people driving machinery are coming out of fields at harvest or haymaking time and having their vision restricted. The contractors' association in north and mid-Leinster is very active and the chairman lives down the road from me. He wants to come before the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to discuss the matter but I have advised him to write to the clerk to this committee. Anyone who knows anything about birds and bees knows that birds will not nest in a hedgerow along a road because of the noise generated when lorries hit branches. If a frog is killed, it seems to be a serious problem but it does not seem to be as serious if a person is killed because his or her vision is restricted by a hedgerow overgrown with weeds such as the white weed which grows to approximately 6 ft. Many have been seriously injured because of this. I hope the Chairman will accept the request of the man in question to come before the committee. I am sure the problem affects every county and it is about time something was done about it.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

I am a firm believer in trimming hedges properly. I have seen hedges butchered in a disgraceful way but a properly trimmed hedgerow can look well. Health and safety are serious matters. The roads are narrow in a lot of places and it is sometimes difficult to find passing bays. If hedgerows are left to grow, they will take over the road; therefore, common sense must prevail. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government , Deputy Gormley, said in The Examiner that he would target local authorities if they broke the law by cutting hedgerows. That is of concern to me and we should seek clarification because I want roads in country areas to be kept as safe as possible. It is hard enough to travel these roads without their being taken over by further growth. Wildlife is as important to me as it is to anybody else and I would not suggest anything that would damage it but this policy is going overboard.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

I support previous speakers. Since the time when I was a councillor I have made representations on behalf of rural people coming out from narrow roads onto national primary roads, national secondary roads and busy road junctions. Unless councils continue to cut verges at these junctions to enable drivers to see if there is any oncoming traffic, human life will be lost, whatever about animal life. We need to talk to the Minister about this issue.

Deputy James Bannon

On the issue of hedge cutting, public health and safety should come first. An employee of a local authority in the midlands was prosecuted by a wildlife body because he was cutting back overgrown bushes and briars which were blocking a signpost on the main road. This is legislation carried too far. I would appreciate it if the Minister reviewed it in the interests of public safety.

Deputy Johnny Brady

I am not talking about cutting hedges but breasting them on verges. I know of a local priest who was summonsed because he had asked a local contractor to cut the verges for the festival day of a certain saint. A local football club was also summonsed for looking after the safety of young people driving onto the main road. That is disgraceful.

Deputy James Bannon

All I am asking is that common sense be applied.

Chairman

Deputy Brady indicated that there is a letter due from the agricultural contractors group. We will arrange to meet it once we receive the letter. We will write to the Department about section 40. It must have an implementation note for local authorities or wildlife organisations. It is stated that specific exception can be made. I thought it dealt with road safety issues and health and safety. We will ask the Department to give us the details of those as well, so that we have that information when the group comes in.

That concludes the correspondence for today.

Sitting suspended at 4.01 p.m. and resumed at 4.02 p.m.