JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT, TRANSPORT, CULTURE AND THE GAELTACHT debate -
Tuesday, 3 Apr 2012

Utilising the Arts to Combat Disadvantage: Discussion

Chairman

We have four groups before us today. I propose that we hear submissions from the groups in the following order, Fíbin Teo, the National Assembly for Youth Drama, Filmbase and the Bealtaine Festival - Age & Opportunity, following which members can put questions. I request that each group take no more than ten minutes in delivering their opening statements. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Before we begin, I draw attention to the position on privilege. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give to the committee. However, if directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against a person or an entity, by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. I take this opportunity to advise witnesses that the opening statements which they submitted to the committee will be published on the committee’s website following this meeting.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official, by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Before commencing the presentations I would like to say a few words. The committee has been discussing this topic for a number of weeks and has gathered extensive information on the issues involved. The groups before us today will add their distinctive opinions on this matter, based on their specific areas of work, to our deliberations this afternoon. Fíbin Teo has been working in Irish language theatre since 2003. It has brought the Irish language, as a vibrant living and relevant language, to young people. It uses puppets, masks, music, shadows, sounds and a range of highly visual techniques to develop a style not previously seen in children's theatre, in particular Irish language theatre. I compliment Fíbin Teo on its recent production on Setanta. The National Association for Youth Drama provides advice, information and support to new theatre groups across the country. It has in excess of 50 youth theatres affiliated to it and promotes theatre as a unique development and learning experience for young people. It supports youth drama through an annual programme that includes the National Youth Theatre, national and regional festivals of youth theatres, commissioning new writings, publications, resources, training and other services, including research and policy development.

Filmbase is a not-for-profit resource centre which facilitates film makers in networking, hiring film making equipment, engaging in training and availing of information and support. It publishes the cultural magazine Filmbase and administers a number of film and documentary production award schemes. The Bealtaine Festival is an age and opportunity initiative part funded by the Arts Council and delivered by hundreds of organisations throughout the country. It celebrates the activity of age through cinema, dance, painting and theatre. More than 120,000 people participate each year in the Bealtaine Festival. By engaging in active retirement groups, arts centres, community groups, libraries, local authorities and other groups it keeps the experience and abilities of older people within the community and is of benefit to communities. Age & Opportunity is involved in many events such as the bringing of the Liz Lerman dance exchange to Ireland for workshops and performances and through Envisage Age creates a project which attempts to reimagine care settings for older people in a whole new way. Our role is to consider how we, as public representatives, can through Departments, agencies and local authorities assist local groups in their efforts. Our primary objective is to identify how this work can be done more efficiently and effectively and hear the experiences of the delegations in these areas. I ask Mr. Ó Domhnaill to begin and I will take other speakers for the different groups in sequence.

Mr. Micheál Ó Domhnaill

Tá an-ríméad ar Fíbín bheith anseo. Táimid an-bhuíoch gur tugadh cuireadh dúinn teacht os comhair an choiste. Cuireadh Fíbín ar an saol sa bhliain 2003 mar cheap muid nach raibh, i ndáiríre, drámaí d'ardchaighdeán á chur ar fáil do dhaoine óga - go háirithe déagóirí - i nGaeilge. Tá mé sásta a rá go bhfuil os cionn scór léirithe déanta againn ó shin i leith. Mar a luaigh an Chathaoirleach, ba é "Sétanta" an ceann is déanaí, i gcomhpháirtíocht le Amharclann na Mainistreach. Aitheantas faoi leith a bhí ann cuireadh a fháil ó Amharclann na Mainistreach teacht ar bórd agus dráma a léiriú leo.

Ceapann muid go bhfuil an ealaín sa phobal thar a bheith tábhachtach. Is as deisceart Chonamara muid. Nuair a bhreathnaíonn muid ar na pobail agus na paróistí atá timpeall orainn, is léir go bhfuil infreastruchtúr spóirt thar a bheith láidir sa cheantar. Tá Cumann Lúthchleas Gael lárnach ann. Creid nó ná creid, tá Cumann Rugbaí na Gaeltachta thar a bheith láidir sa taobh seo tíre. Níl an infreastruchtúr atá ag na heagrais ealaíne chomh láidir, áfach, agus níl sé ag freastal ar dhaoine óga, go háirithe déagóirí. Go minic, braitheann sé ar an múinteoir atá sa scoil náisiúnta san áit. Tá scoileanna náisiúnta ann atá thar a bheith láidir ó thaobh na drámaíochta a chur chun cinn, go háirithe má tá spéis ag na múinteoirí iontu sa drámaíocht. I ndáiríre, níl an béim sin nó an infreastruchtúr ann do dhéagóirí nuair a shroicheann siad an dara leibhéal. Ceapann muid gur droch-rud é sin.

Is bealaí iontacha iad an drámaíocht agus an ealaín chun féin-mhuinín agus misneach a fhorbairt i ndaoine óga. Níos tábhachtaí fós, tugann siad deis iontach dúinn an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn, go háirithe i réigiúin Ghaeltachta. Le cabhair ón Roinn Ealaíon, Oidhreachta agus Gaeltachta, thosaigh muid togra píolótach - SárScoil Dhrámaíochta Fíbín - anuraidh. Bhí sé i gceist againn macasamhail don mhéid atá á dhéanamh ag an National Youth Theatre a fhorbairt i gcomhthéacs na Gaeilge. Chuaigh muid ar fud na tíre agus rinne muid trialacha.

Tá muintir na Gaeltachta iontach ag cur cúrsaí ar fáil do ghasúir taobh amuigh den Ghaeltacht, ach uaireanta déanann muid faillí ar ár déagóirí agus ar ár gasúr féin. Le haghaidh an sárscoil seo, chuir muid cuireadh chuig 25 dalta teacht go Conamara as Baile Átha Cliath, Sligeach agus fud na tíre, ach rí-bharr acu as Gaeltacht Thír Chonaill, Gaeltacht Chiarraí agus Gaeltacht Chonamara. Don chéad uair riamh, bhí na gasúr seo, a tógadh le Gaeilge, ag cur aithne ar a chéile. Cuireadh cúrsa d'ard caighdeán ar fáil faoi stiúradh Paul Mercier. Dáiríre, dá bhfeicfeá an talent a bhí ar fáil ar an gcúrsa sin, ní bheadh a mhacasamhail le fáil i mBéarla. Bhí sé chomh maith nó níos fearr ná lucht an Bhéarla agus ceapann muid go bhfuil sin tábhachtach. As a stuaim féin, chuaigh 18 duine as an 25 a d'fhreastal ar an chúrsa go dtí Oireachtas na Gaeilge. Taispeánann seo go n-oibríonn sé seo agus ba bhreá linn dá mbeadh níos mó infheistíochta á dhéanamh, go háirithe le haghaidh déagóirí a bheith páirteach sna healaíon.

Rud beag eile, chomh maith le bheith ag plé le drámaíocht, cuireann craoltóirí ó am go chéile deis ar fáil dúinn cláracha a dhéanamh agus rinne muid documentary ar Raidió na Gaeltachta a bhí an-suimiúil, "Ar an Imeall". Clár é seo faoi déagóirí a bhí an-spéis acu i carranna. Deireann daoine gur joyriders cuid acu, ach bhí an oiread paisin ag cuid acu le haghaidh carranna. Thug muid deis dóibh a gcuid smaointí a nochtú agus chuir sé iontas orainn an Ghaeilge a bhí acu, an paisean a bhí acu agus an chaoi go raibh siad in ann seilbh a ghlacadh ar an chlár agus é sin a chur i láthair na daoine. Ceapaim, má thugann muid deis do daoine sna pobail seo agus má úsáideann muid an ealaíon, gur ar son an phobail a bheidh muid. I suppose, ag an deireadh, go gceapann Fíbín ar bealach go bhfuil talent ag chuile duine. Ceapann muid go bhfuil buanna go leor acu, go háirithe ag daoine óga agus déagóirí. Níl uainn ach an árdán sin a thabhairt dóibh agus seans a thabhairt dóibh an bua sin a fhorbairt. Go raibh míle maith agaibh.

Ms Michelle Carew

The National Association for Youth Drama, NAYD, is the development organisation for youth theatre in Ireland. We have upwards of 58 member youth theatres from communities all over the country, from Donegal to Waterford. For the purpose of addressing the matter with which this committee is concerned - utilising the arts to combat disadvantage - we will focus on the youth cohort.

The first question to be answered is whether the arts, and specifically drama, is an appropriate methodology to use for social ends. What are the benefits for young people who participate in drama activities and why do young people participate in youth theatre? To quote from one of the foremost experts in drama education, Jonathan Neelands, it is "not necessarily about stardom; they are looking for something which is shared, something which gives them some hope, something which gives them some aspiration, something which will transform their lives". Drama is a highly effective youth work methodology, dealing with human behaviour, relationships and interaction. In the drama workshop participants can grasp concepts, face issues and solve problems. In Ireland, NAYD promotes and supports a safe and inclusive youth theatre infrastructure, and we promote the core principle that participation is open to all young people regardless of their class, background, colour, race, sexuality or economic position.

In 2009 we published Centre Stage +10, the research report into youth theatre in Ireland. The section addressing the benefits of participation in youth theatre came from a survey of 440 youth theatre members. They reported benefits including becoming more confident, making new friends and feeling more accepted and that they belonged somewhere. The international research presented in our full submission, which is also being presented by other organisations and witnesses before the committee, further supports the case for the value of arts participation in a social context. At this point I thought it would be great to have the voice of some young people in this room, and I had hoped to show an excerpt of a video from Sligo Institute of Technology, made by NAYD, but unfortunately there were technical issues with it. Anybody who would like to take the video to view may do so.

In the video young people spoke about how in youth theatre they found a sense a family. They worried they would not fit in at first but when they joined the youth theatre it did not take long for it to become the most natural thing for them to do. In a sense they spoke about it as a transformational experience. Most poignantly, at the end of the clip a young girl states "I am so lucky I found youth theatre; we are all so lucky we found youth theatre and I feel really sorry for those who have not found youth theatre yet." Despite the strides that NAYD has made in its 32 years in developing a strong youth theatre sector, that opportunity, unfortunately, does not exist for all young people. From one local community to the next, the models of youth theatre groups differ, as does availability. A young person's chance of participating in drama activities can depend, arbitrarily, on where they live.

How can local authority funding of the arts be co-ordinated to ensure it is targeted to the benefit of disadvantaged young people? As will become apparent throughout this consultation process, there are many arts-based projects funded either directly or indirectly from a variety of Departments and agencies. The Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, the Arts Council, the Department of Children and Youth Affairs, the Department of Education and Skills and the Department of Justice and Equality all, in some way, fund projects that address social disadvantage and inclusion via the arts. NAYD's recommendations are based on four over-arching principles on which we believe arts-based social development or inclusion programmes should be based - continuity, cohesion, quality and opportunities for participant progression.

The arts when harnessed towards the goal of combating disadvantage often come in the form of one-off projects or programmes. While young people benefit greatly from this participation, it is wrong to assume that these changes will be permanent. The whole life of the participant needs to be considered. The process must begin with access to arts within primary formal education, and outreach and inclusion projects need to be designed with legacies in mind and routes for progression for the young participant. In short, sustainable interventions are required that enable continuity of provision for young people as they develop.

Often for disadvantaged young people, the arts programmes they come into contact with, if any, are defined by, and provided because of, their very disadvantage. Arts participation does not work as a short course like a form of social antibiotic. Such targeted programmes are necessary to engage such young people but opportunities to progress and continue the young person's creative journey beyond the project should be considered in the planning of all projects.In light of that, we recommend to the committee that local authorities and other funders of arts-based social inclusion projects should work with arts partners to identify and develop programmes that provide opportunities for progression and that can demonstrate potential pathways and legacies for the participant.

The fragmented nature of some of the arts-based interventions being conducted in the area of social disadvantage is due to the lack of co-ordination between the strategies of those Departments that fund the work. It is not uncommon for a single project to be funded by a number of different Departments or agencies all with different priorities but with ultimately the same goal. An interdepartmental strategy supporting inter-agency action between youth services, local authorities, arts organisations, Garda diversion projects and so forth is needed to ensure sustainable, quality arts access is available for all young people, disadvantaged or otherwise. The current situation also means it is difficult to know the extent of provision. A complete national picture is required before effectiveness, models of good practice or gaps in provision can be determined. NAYD recommends that a national mapping exercise be conducted to measure the existing level of arts–based social development and inclusion programmes. We also recommend that at least two of the recommendations from the 2007 report by the National Economic and Social Forum, NESF, "The Arts, Cultural Inclusion and Social Cohesion", be implemented. These are that there be better policy co-ordination between national and local agencies and arts organisations, and that arts partnership fora be established at county level.

As identified, current provision is supported through a variety of disparate funding avenues. As a result the quality of the arts experiences on offer is not standardised, nor are measurement or evaluation procedures applied. All young people have the right to quality provision and the taxpayer has a right to assurances that public expenditure is directed to quality, effective projects. Quality in arts education is difficult but not impossible to measure. At a minimum any facilitator, including community workers and volunteers, using arts-based methodologies should be able to access training. Existing programmes, such as the community drama training programme delivered by NAYD and funded by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government could be harnessed and exploited to this end. We recommend that a set of quality standards should be set for providers of arts-based social development or inclusion programmes and that community workers and volunteers should be supported and encouraged to access training in arts-based methodologies.

Finally, arts provision targeted at socially disadvantaged young people, no matter how effective, cannot exist in a vacuum. As mentioned earlier, continuity of provision is required with opportunities for progression into mainstream provision, where and when possible. For this the mainstream must be valued and supported. The single greatest challenge for youth theatres is simply remaining operational. While project money can often be accessed from a variety of sources, money to rent spaces, pay facilitators, pay utilities and pay insurance is very difficult to get. NAYD recommends that local youth arts groups should be supported in the way that they need to be supported. Small grants that cover space rental, facilitator fees and insurance costs should be prioritised over one-off project grants. In addition, the possibility of establishing a national programme that allows suitable NAMA held premises to be used specifically for organisations and agencies working directly with young people should be explored.

We ask today that the opportunity to participate in youth drama or any other form of youth arts not be a matter of luck but a matter of entitlement for all Irish young people. We offer our recommendations in support of that aim.

Chairman

I now invite Ms Claire Creely of Filmbase to make her opening statement.

Ms Claire Creely

We thank the committee for the opportunity to address this meeting. For those unfamiliar with the work of Filmbase, it is a resource organisation for new and emerging film-makers in Ireland. We have been in operation for almost 26 years and our mission is dedicated to stimulating and supporting the work of film-makers and artists working through the media of film, video and related technologies. We provide a range of supports, most notably the film production funding schemes we operate in association with a number of agencies, including RTE and TG4. We also administer funding on behalf of the Arts Council in the area of creative documentary. In addition, we supply film and video production and editing facilities, we run training courses, host master classes, talks and screenings, and publish Ireland's only dedicated film magazine, "Film Ireland".

We are based in the heart of Temple Bar, alongside other organisations such as the Screen Directors Guild of Ireland, the Irish Playwrights and Screenwriters Guild, the Irish Film Institute and MEDIA Desk Ireland. The Irish Film Board is also nearby, so our building is a natural centre for film networking. Overall, we feel that our experience in film is broadly drawn and that we are well placed to understand the sector. This presentation will focus specifically on the extent to which film as an art form has been utilised to combat disadvantage, with examples where appropriate. We will also highlight a number of factors which may currently be a barrier to local authorities using film to its full potential and outline a number of recommendations to combat this.

As an art form, film offers a great opportunity for a range of people of different ages, backgrounds and interests to engage with the creative process in a group environment. Given the nature of film-making, participants can benefit from increased communication skills, problem solving, goal setting, planning and visualisation skills as well as working in a structured team environment. In terms of engaging local communities, groups can link in with their own community both during the production process, for example, by accessing locations and casting performers, and following completion through the screening of the project for an audience. Ireland has one of the highest per capita cinema going populations, not to mention the opportunity for people of all ages and backgrounds to engage with film through their televisions and computers, so this accessibility means it is relatively easy to introduce participants to the film-making process.

There are a number of projects that Filmbase would like to highlight which have achieved success in utilising the art of film and film-making to combat social disadvantage and which might provide a model which could be expanded upon. I will discuss the ID Projects scheme in Galway and the Sharp Focus scheme in Drogheda. Running since 2000, the ID Projects scheme works with a number of community groups each year providing them with a mentor, training, equipment and the resources necessary for each group to create a 15 minute documentary rooted in their own community experiences. The scheme is operated in Galway by the Galway Film Centre, in association with Galway City Council, Galway County Council and the Arts Council, and the project culminates in a gala screening evening at the Town Hall Theatre. Feedback from those involved indicates that the experience has proved to be enormously beneficial for all those taking part, with some of the projects even being developed for broadcast by RTE and TG4.

Entry is based on submissions with four groups chosen to take part each year – two from Galway city and two from Galway county. The groups must be recognised community groups and represent communities of social disadvantage, disability, ethnic minority or be a registered charity. An essential part of the project is that the participants themselves direct, shoot and supervise the editing of their film. A mentor works with the groups over a three month period providing them with the skills and guidance necessary to create their own individual film. This ensures that they gain both the technical and creative skills necessary to shoot their documentary, and that the documentary remains a true and accurate reflection of their community. Funding is provided by the local authorities, with the Galway Film Centre offering support with access to their equipment and resources. Over 50 documentaries have been created to date giving a voice to a wide range of communities in the local area.

Another example is the youth film production project Sharp Focus which was run by Calipo Theatre & Picture Company in Drogheda. The project ran for three years as a cross-Border programme working with four groups each year, two north and two south of the Border. Funding for the project was provided by the European programme for peace and reconciliation. The participating groups were made up of young people aged from 14 to 18 years and all drawn from areas of social disadvantage. Each group was again provided with training, mentoring, equipment and professional support to create their own films based around the themes of community and identity.

Not only did Sharp Focus create a number of quality films, it provided a positive and inspirational project for the young people to participate in. Participants fully engaged with the process from start to finish and facilitators noted increases in confidence, team work, communication skills and behavioural issues amongst a great many of those who took part. It included an educational component with FETAC accreditation, providing those taking part with a recognised qualification, and in many cases portfolio work which helped them gain access to further education.

Both of these projects are useful examples of how film has been used to engage with a variety of different communities and we feel they would be useful models for future projects. I would also like to quickly mention the Cinemobile and Cinema Northwest, which offer local communities access to films they would not otherwise be able to view in a cinema setting, providing entertainment, educational and community enhancement opportunities.

Filmbase has engaged with a number of arts offices around the country to help develop their film-related activities. Filmbase has worked with Kildare County Council arts office to host information sessions for filmmakers in the area and has advised the office on film-related funding applications. We have also worked with the office to deliver training locally using the equipment and resources it has available enabling interested filmmakers, young people and local community groups to best understand how to use the equipment. This was a simple way of utilising our experience to help them make the most of their investment in film.

We have also assisted FilmOffaly, Offaly's film commission, with the operation of its annual film bursary. The bursary offers up-and-coming filmmakers the resources to produce a short film in the Offaly area. Filmbase was initially approached to advise on the development of the scheme from concept to delivery and is currently a partner in the scheme, which is now in its fourth year. This successful scheme has supported the production of the first funded films of three very talented filmmaking teams. Our involvement has allowed FilmOffaly to benefit from our 25 years of experience in operating short film funding schemes. It has given FilmOffaly much greater resources to work with in supporting filmmaking in the area and it has allowed Filmbase the opportunity to more effectively expand the work that we do in the regions.

These are just a few examples of ways in which local communities can engage with the filmmaking process and how centres such as Filmbase can assist local authorities in this way.

There are a number of barriers, however, which may mean film is not being used to its full potential in this way. In 2007 CREATE, in association with the Leitrim County Council arts office, hosted a symposium on public art in Carrick-on-Shannon. Aimed at artists and those commissioning artists through public art schemes, a large number of the attendees at the event were arts officers from around the country. Filmbase's managing director, Alan Fitzpatrick, participated in a panel discussion at the session. He found that on the topic of commissioning film projects many of the arts officers felt they did not have a sufficient understanding of film and therefore by conscious or unconscious default they would prioritise their efforts in other art forms with which they were more familiar. He also noted that film was perceived as an art form with difficult barriers to entry, these being the need for technical training, the need for access to equipment, which can vary greatly from council to council, and a lack of understanding surrounding legal issues involved in commissioning or funding film.

These issues, we feel, have hindered the level of engagement with the art of film and filmmaking by local authorities that are engaging with the filmmaking process on an ad hoc basis. The examples demonstrate that film can be used to tackle issues of social inclusion and offers many benefits including team work, communication skills and more. In addition, the project can live on long after the groups have finished working on it through local, national and international screenings, as well as online distribution.

Our first recommendation would be to break down the impression that film is a difficult art form for arts offices to engage with. We would recommend offering training and/or support for the relevant people within local authorities to help them understand the opportunities that exist within film as an art form and to understand the level of support that organisations like Filmbase can offer including advice on funding, technical issues, support with legal queries and more.

Filmbase exists as a national resource organisation, able to assist not only individual filmmakers but also organisations looking to engage with the filmmaking process. The investment in Filmbase over 25 years by the Arts Council, the broadcasters, industry bodies and by filmmakers should be drawn on as widely as possible. In this way, individual bodies should not feel the need to be experts in film or necessarily to have their own filmmaking resources in order to successfully run film projects. We are available to partner with and support any local authority or other body that wishes to provide film programmes in its area. A strong, centrally supported resource organisation, capable of providing advice, equipment, training and promotion is a strategic and cost-effective way of ensuring that multiple regional organisations do not all have to create the same resources from scratch.

Finally, we would also recommend further investigation of the projects noted above, the ID Projects and Sharp Focus schemes, as models which have already provided successful outcomes in combating disadvantage and promoting social inclusion.

We have a wealth of talent working in the filmmaking industry in Ireland with increasing successes being accumulated at home and abroad year on year in the areas of drama, documentary and animation. We should be looking to tap into this fantastic resource to offer guidance, inspiration and an avenue for creative expression through a unique and accessible art form that also has direct links to industry.

Chairman

I now call Ms Anne Leahy to give the presentation on behalf of the Bealtaine festival run by Age & Opportunity.

Ms Ann Leahy

Bealtaine is Ireland's national festival celebrating creativity as we age. It is co-ordinated by Age & Opportunity and is a co-operative festival involving a range of organisations, including local authorities. Age & Opportunity is a not-for-profit organisation with a developmental role. We work in the arts and in others areas such as physical activity. We have a national programme on physical activity and sport for older people and we are active in education in many ways.

Bealtaine receives funding from the Arts Council and projects are funded by individual foundations, and operates in the context of the aging of the population. Along with other countries, Ireland's population is aging. In 20 years, when I am an older person, Ireland will look different. Almost 50% of people in Ireland at that point will be 50 or over according to projections. Within those projections, the growth in people over 85 is happening at a faster rate than growth in other age groups. By 2056, the number of people over 85 will have increased seven-fold.

That has consequences. An aging population requires a response and part of the response is to encourage lifestyles that keep people active and maintaining their own well-being, ensuring they remain connected within their community rather than isolated in their own homes. If we do not do this, there will be an ever increasing demand for health and social care.

At Age & Opportunity, because we put so much of our time into working in the arts, we believe that the arts are an important response to this, among other responses that must come. Arts and culture can help us to interrogate the issue of aging, as a society and personally, as well as creating opportunities for people to get out within their own communities. One of the things we do is draw attention to the fact that 95% of over 65s live in their own homes and the vast majority of them live independently. That is a huge resource to society and the arts sector. Bealtaine creates opportunities for those people to get out in their communities and lead as well as be an audience and to interact with other generations. We also promote older artists who are well known as role models, such as Éamon Morrissey, the actor, and Paddy Maloney, the musician, and others.

I am focusing on the 95% but I am not forgetting the 22,000 who live in care. They are a special case. Some of them have been in care for a significant length of time and they too are citizens who deserve access to the arts. We, as well as some of our partners have developed projects which specifically target that hard to reach group. More needs to be done and could be done for them.

While the arts are a very important part of the response for older people, it goes without saying that other things are also needed. Older people should not be excluded from community education in the current climate of cutbacks. We still need rural transport and other supports for older people to maintain their connectedness to society. My colleague, Mr. Dominic Campbell, will discuss the Bealtaine Festival's work with local authorities. At the end of his contribution I will outline some of our recommendations.

Mr. Dominic Campbell

What does the Bealtaine Festival achieve? Bealtaine celebrates older artists. We think of older artists as being unique in three ways. First, they have been artists for their whole lives, for example, Seamus Heaney, Maeve Binchy, Mick Jagger or Leonard Cohen. Second, they are people who have had a significant change in their lives in older age, for example, a fiddle player who becomes arthritic, a confident employee who retires and becomes less so. The third group are people who arrive at the arts with a lifetime of experience. They bring a lifetime of everything to engagement with the arts for the first time. Through celebrating all of these people, we are able to promote the variety of ways in which you and I may grow older. We think of institutions in quite a different way. Instead of thinking in terms of national, regional and local arts events, we tend to think of them in horizontal terms. Instead of thinking about opera, country and western music, we think that people dip in and dip out of those experiences at different points in their life. They are equally valuable at different times.

Our second great achievement is in the area of participation. The figures of the number of participants and events are as follows. Approximately 120,000 people are involved in the festival. Last year there were 3,122 events created with a partnership of 600 different organisations. We are at the centre of a network, which is cross-sectoral and includes people from the arts and health sectors, active retirement groups, local and national organisations. Through the Bealtaine Festival we are able to broker partnerships in diverse activity between them. We are able in some cases to make exciting things happen with existing resources in ways that would not otherwise happen. We also recognise that we have an impact on individuals in society and an independent evaluation of the festival by NUIG recognised that we had a profound impact on arts practice in Ireland but also that there were two distinct bands of achievement. The first was about a greater sense of well-being, greater self esteem and better morale among individuals and the other was about their involvement in their community, with people forming new social relationships. The report pointed out that 86% of participants felt that Bealtaine improved their quality of life and 87% felt that Bealtaine increased their involvement in community. Therefore, by creating projects people are creating their own well-being in their own community.

We know that these benefits have a cumulative effect for the broader society so we facilitate these impacts on the broader society in terms of greater social cohesion, social capital and the harnessing of voluntary activity. We know that participation rates during the festival stand at around 120,000 people who do not traditionally attend arts events. We are able to facilitate greater collaborative interaction between statutory organisations, voluntary groups at national and at local level, often using these existing resources effectively. Above this we are able to initiate events that would not otherwise happen. We enthuse, we inspire people and because of this we are developing a growing international reputation. We are becoming the so called "go to organisation" for creativity and aging. We are now advising new festivals in Scotland, Australia and are working with the city of Madrid. We are placing Irish artists at the centre of this activity. We are able to bring all of these people to Dublin in May for the first ever conference on creative aging and we invite members to join us, should they have the opportunity to do so.

We are successful because we encourage experimentation and innovation, both at individual and organisational level. Where possible, we employ exceptional artists. We focus on older people as a resource and we harness the goodwill of volunteers. As a festival we are an easy point of access. We are very user friendly. By partnering with such a wide range of organisations, we have built a national festival with major local reach, which is growing an international reputation. We involve the local as well as the national bodies, and these partners are able to have a vision for aging in Ireland which is bigger than their own local activity.

Let us focus on one of our collaborators, the local authorities, which are really critical to Bealtaine. We work closely with arts officers and libraries. Most, but not all arts officers participate in Bealtaine. Of those who do not participate, we are not surprised because they have such varied roles and resources and they work in various environments. The way they work with us is that they provide grants to local groups, they organise their own month long programme and often these programmes are part of an annual activity about aging within the county. They are able to work with other statutory organisations such as the HSE and the VECs and quite often they are building up experience on how to engage with more difficult to reach groups of older people. The illustration is from a project in County Mayo, called Hearth where individual painting classes are run in the homes of rurally isolated older people. We also work very closely with public libraries, which during Bealtaine become the centre of their local community for the month.

Ms Ann Leahy

Members can see a slide of some of the challenges we face. I am not going to go through each one but they inform the suggestions we will make to the committee on policy recommendations.

First is sustainability, which is an issue, as much of the work depends on the passion and engagement of individuals. That is not sustainable in the long term without very supportive policy, infrastructure and resources. The last group mentioned on the slide is hard to reach groups, which takes longer and more resources to reach, for example, people who are housebound or people who have no access to public transport. Some of our partners are doing this and Mr. Campbell gave the example of the Hearth project. We have some experience of doing this ourselves. We have a list of recommendations in our written submission but I will focus on a few. One of the problems is that there is no over-arching supportive policy for this kind of work. We would like to see a policy that operates at national level but that links to the local level. There is a forum in which that could start, the development of the national positive ageing strategy at the Department of Health. We would like the Department to have a clear commitment to encouraging the arts and older people. We would very much like to see the next Arts Council strategy targeting older people or committing to targeting older people in light of the demographic trend on aging. We would also like it if the arts plans of the local authority also committed to targeting older people but as Mr. Campbell alluded to, we know that will present quite a challenge for the smaller offices.

We would also like to see a strategic partnership between the Arts Council and the HSE, particularly in terms of support for work going on in care settings. That recommendation was already made in an Arts Council arts and health strategy from 2010, and we would like to see something happen on that. Finally we would like to see age awareness training for the staff of agencies including local authorities, tourism bodies and others, because we feel people need to be aware of demographic ageing. They need to approach ageing in a positive way, such that it promotes the sort of empowerment we are talking about, that we all want for ourselves as we age.

In conclusion, local authorities are critical partners in the Bealtaine Festival, which succeeds in promoting greater social connectedness. I have details of the international conference, which Mr. Campbell mentioned, which we are hosting. Members are very welcome.

Senator Fiach Mac Conghail

I thank the witnesses, whom I know individually. I have many conflicts of interest. We are on the same side.

This is our fifth week to discuss the topic of utilising the arts to combat disadvantage. There are a number of emerging trends that the joint committee must consider. I do not want to pre-empt the conclusion of the committee, but we must acknowledge the right of all citizens to have access to arts and culture in society. I have been working in the arts for 20 years, but we all need to remind ourselves that this is not a luxury. It is a right of Irish citizens to have full access to the arts, but whether they would like to participate is another question.

There is a chronic lack of evidence and research as to the extent of participation in the arts, both with regard to numbers and experience. Several arts organisations have come to us with some evidence, but whether it is a fault of the arts community and organisations or not, there is no cohesive approach to the argument, unlike with the drinks industry or local groups such as sports organisations. This lack does not just relate to the numbers involved but also to the quality of the experience of the arts and perhaps we should comment on that.

Ms Carew mentioned in her presentation the research conducted by Richard Dunne.

Ms Michelle Carew

Ronan Dunne, in the research and development office.

Senator Fiach Mac Conghail

I would be interested in hearing whether there are any other examples of that type of research, either nationally or internationally, that we could examine. I am a member of the arts community and admit we are at fault. The argument need not be all about figures, but we need to examine how we and this committee can help present a more cohesive and clearer argument.

With regard to funding, all the arts organisations are innovative in seeking funding across all Departments and I have mentioned all the Departments apart from the Department of Justice and Equality, which I omitted, at previous committee meetings. Certainly, funding has been sought from the Departments with responsibility for the arts, education, children, justice and the environment etc. I welcome and acknowledge the recommendation being made by the National Association for Youth Drama for a national mapping exercise to discover the existing provisions and funding levels. With regard to Fíbín, how is it funded and what is its funding base? Cén urraíocht an bhfaigheann Fíbín, conas a mhaireann sé agus cén Roinn óna bhfaigheann sé urraíocht? Ba mhaith liom sin a phlé nuair a bheidh na ceisteanna ar fad curtha agam.

A recommendation has been made for an interdepartmental strategy, the co-ordination of a vision. I would like to hear that teased out. One of the suggestions that came from a previous committee presentation was for somebody to be based in the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government who would manage and deal with all the local authorities so that we would know how much direct and indirect funding is spent on the arts. This would allow us value that funding, protect it and ensure that it is efficiently spent. It would let us see what funding is provided to the Arts Council from the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht and what funding is provided by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and the Department of Justice and Equality and so on and would allow us map out not only the provisions that exist but also the funding and would support the excellent projects that exist.

I commend Filmbase and would like to ask how it is funded. Does it get local authority funding? With regard to Age & Opportunity and the Bealtaine Festival, I suggest we should talk to the Departments of Health and Social Protection about the timebomb that will hit us in 20 or 30 years' time with regard to the ageing community and what our response should be. We should look at what we can do now. We have heard excellent suggestions on this at previous meetings and there is extraordinarily valuable work being done at local level. We need to consider how the arts can contribute to that. Some 85% or more of the ageing population live in their communities and Bealtaine supports that. I commend Bealtaine on the recognition it has received from the World Health Organisation for the work it is doing. The question I have relates to one I ask my mother when I ask her whether she knows how to switch on the computer. Is Age & Opportunity involved in any technology based projects with artists or other cultural institutions?

Mr. Darach Ó Tuairisc

Ó thaobh maoiniú de, faigheann Fíbín maoiniú ó trí phríomh foinsí go ginearálta. Faigheann muid ár príomh maoiniú ó Ealaín na Gaeltachta trí Údarás na Gaeltachta. Tugann siad €60,000 dúinn sa bhliain. Tugann an Comhairle Ealaíona €40,000 dúinn agus tugann Foras na Gaeilge idir €20,000 agus €22,000 dúinn. Mar sin, táimid ag oibriú ar bhunús de €100,000 go dtí €110,000. An fhadhb is mó atá ag comhlacht ar nós Fíbín ná nach bhfuil a fhios againn cén uair a bhfuil muid ag fáil an maoiniú sin. Mar shampla, ní bhfuair muid amach ó Ealaín na Gaeltachta go dtí Meán Fómhair nó Deireadh Fómhair 2011 faoi mhaoiniú 2011. Fágann sin brú orainn agus ansin caithfear é a bheith caite roimh réimse áirithe. Tugann an Comhairle Ealaíona maoiniú dúinn ag tús na bliana, ach tá athrú beag ar sin anois mar is eol don choiste. Níl a fhios ag an údarás anois cén uair an mbeidh maoiniú á chur ar fáil anois. Toisc go dtagann an t-airgead ón Roinn, tógfaidh sé go dtí Meán Fómhair nó Deireadh Fómhair. Mar sin, ní féidir linn pleanáil a dhéanamh.

Tá sé an-deacair do comhlacht mar muid pleanáil a dhéanamh le haghaidh na tograí atá muid ag iarraidh a chur i bhfeidhm. Má tá aon duine ag obair sna healaíona, tuigeann sé nó sí go gcaithfear plean d'ocht nó naoi mhí a bheith ag grúpaí roimh ré, ach bheadh bliain go leith go deas ar fad. Sin an deacracht is mó atá againn mar chomhlacht. Tá an pota airgid seo ardaithe, ó 2003 ó chuir muid féin €3,000 infheistiú isteach, suas go dtí an €110,000, ach níl sé réalaíoch leanacht ar aghaidh ar an gcaoi seo. Ar an airgead sin, tá an Stát ag fáil €1.70 nó €1.80 ar ais ó Fíbín. Le chuile €1 a fhaigheann muid, cuireann muid €1.70 le sin. Mar sin, tá Fíbín thar a bheith viable ó thaobh na productions atá againn mar tá siad ar chamcuairt. Bíonn tuairim agus €270,000 sa bhliain de turnover againn. Mar sin, is infheistiú mhaith ag an Stát í sin, mar níl muid ag tógaint airgid agus á chaitheamh ach ag tógáil airgid agus á infheistiú ar ais sa phobal agus sna daoine. Is comhlacht muid atá ag taisteal go forleathan ar fud na tíre, agus anois san Eoraip. An rud faoi Fíbín ná go bhfuil muid ag iarraidh brandáil láidir i dtaobh na teanga a chur chun cinn.

Luaigh an Seanadóir gur ceart na healaíona a bheith ar fáil do chuile duine. Aontaím go huile agus go hiomlán leis. Tá sé tábhachtach go mbeadh an brandáil ar na healaíona mar níl chuile duine ag iarraidh a bheith part of the arts. Ceapann siad gur hippies uilig atá iontu sin. Tá daoine ann atá ag iarraidh a bheith mar chuid de na healaíona, ach ní thuigeann siad go bhfuil siad ag iarraidh sin ná go bhfuil na healaíona i bhfad níos leithne ná drámaíocht - go bhfuil raidió, teilifís, péinteáil, na meáin sin ar fad le fáil. Ba cheart freastal níos mó a dhéanamh ar na daoine sin. Tá go leor scéimeanna ann agus go leor airgid caite ar scéimeanna a chur ar fáil. Tiocfaidh na daoine a bhfuil suim acu iontu chuig na scéimeanna sin, ach caithfidh daoine dul amach agus bualadh ar dóirsí chun daoine eile a mhealladh isteach. Mar shampla, labhair Micheál Ó Domhnaill faoi "Ar an Imeall". D'fhan muid ag parking lots agus i petrol stations ag a trí a chlog ar maidin ag iarraidh bualadh le daoine a bheadh páirteach. Theastaigh uainn an seilbh sin a thabhairt dóibh agus go mbeadh siad mar chuid den rud sin. Theastaigh uainn árdán agus deis a thabhairt dóibh. An aischothú a fuair an pobal ar ais ó na daoine sin mar píosa ealaíne, thug sé léargas nua don phobal ar na daoine seo atá ag zipping up and down the road. Sin, go bunúsách an chaoi a oibríonn muid.

Ms Michelle Carew

The first question concerned the research centre. Much of the research around the benefits of arts in education is in the arts and education area rather than on research in the informal sector and much of it comes from the UK and the international arena. Ireland does not have as much. We have points of alignment from some years back which remain to be implemented, but these concerned implementing arts in education more than anything else.

Senator Fiach Mac Conghail

Could we have a response on the question of the points of alignment next time and see where we stand on that?

Ms Michelle Carew

There is some activity in the area of encountering the arts where there is a push to have that implemented.

Our research, Centre Stage + 10, is a great piece of research and it maps where we are at. The section on the benefits and the impacts is brief, and we are planning to embark on a piece of research that will look deeper at the impact of participation on young people. That will require a very creative approach to the methodologies that we use, as well as a longitudinal study. We are at the start of that. Research requires resources as well, so if it is said that it is the fault of the arts organisations, we must remember that they may not always have the resources to carry out good research either. Partnership with third level is important in this respect. The majority of research in arts is in the formal education area, rather than the informal area.

The mapping exercise might sound like an expensive idea, but it does not need to be. Some work could be done in respect of pooling. Each of these Departments must have documentation on what they funded and how they funded it.

Chairman

That is not always the case. The biggest single funder of arts in the Republic of Ireland is the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, through the local authorities. It is not the Arts Council or any other body. It is just given out. It is probably due to the democratisation process that it goes out in a very unstranded way, but there is no accountability and that is one of the reasons we are doing this.

Ms Michele Carew

At present the Arts Council is conducting a mapping exercise on arts and education projects around the country. That data could be collated as part of any mapping exercise. Perhaps it will cost some money but it could save financial resources in the long run.

I raise the issue of having an interdepartmental strategy with the knowledge that this is a complicated area. We do not want to suggest that we get into a situation where we have one over-arching body at local and national level, which will just engage in rationalisation. Part of the beauty of it is the richness and the diversity in what happens. It is about finding a way. Let us say that the Department of Justice and Equality receives an application for an arts-based project to meet some of its priorities. Does it apply the same rigour in terms of understanding what is good practice as the Department of Children and Youth Affairs when it comes to arts as a youth work methodology, or the same rigour that is applied by the Arts Council for an artist in the community project? It is about standardising that element of it.

Senator Fiach Mac Conghail

The Chairman mentioned a few weeks ago that the Department of Justice and Equality would be best positioned to support artists working in prisons, for example. Is Ms Carew suggesting that this should be moved to another Department, or is she suggesting that the best practice model should be brought into the Department?

Ms Michele Carew

I am suggesting that there should be some cohesion and some shared understanding of what is good practice. The best way of doing that is to look at local fora that could involve stakeholders from all of these areas at a local level at least.

Ms Ann Leahy

I wanted to say something about the research point, because it is something in which our organisation is particularly interested. Our written submission includes references to quite a few pieces of research relative to older people and the arts, and the impacts on them. Most of these are from abroad, and it is considered an emerging area of research, rather than a really established one. What keeps on coming out is the impact on people's health and well being, and the impact on society, social cohesion, community cohesion and so on.

A big study was carried out in the US by Gene Cohen and colleagues, one of whom will be at our conference in May. They looked at a group of older people, the average age of whom was about 80, who were living in the community and were invited to join a choir. They also set up a control group of people who were not in the choir, and they measured their health and well being over a period of time. The outcomes were very good. There was better morale, fewer falls, fewer visits from doctors and other outcomes that one would not necessarily expect.

As an organisation, we are very committed to evaluating our work in general. Mr. Campbell referred to our evaluation of the Bealtaine festival, which was a really significant piece of work. They surveyed at least 500 people, as well as focus groups and so on, so it was quite a substantial piece of research. I have carried out research in care, as that is an area in which I am particularly interested. I spoke to older people living in care about the impact of the visual arts on their quality of life. It is consistently excellent.

Mr. Dominic Campbell

There is a tendency to link young with emergent talent in terms of creative people. This means that one cannot be old and emergent. The idea of new technology and new ideas get locked together. It is very difficult to have a new idea using old technology. Within Bealtaine, we have worked with the National Library of Ireland on a project which started out as an exploration of the archives of the National Library and the traditional music archive by older people who would have been traditional musicians of one sort or another. They explored the archive of the National Library of Ireland. They wrote new tunes within that idiom and they are releasing an album this May. The project began to expand. More people wanted to take part in it who could physically get to Dublin. This year, the project is called "As I Roved Out" and is now roving out online. People are invited to take part in the project using Internet technologies from all around the country.

We are finding that the creative project is the grease in the glue. It is the thing that encourages people to get involved and the means by which they stay involved. It is the excuse for people getting online and using the technology.

Ms Claire Creely

In terms of funding, Filmbase is a not for profit organisation and we receive grand aid from the Arts Council through its annual funding scheme. The majority of our funding comes from this. I mentioned as well that we have won a number of awards schemes. They are film funding schemes that we run in partnership with a variety of different organisations. We have the Filmbase RTE Short Film Award scheme. We run the Lasair scheme for short films in the Irish language. There are also various other schemes, such as Reel Art with the Arts Council and so on. These all provide funding to film makers to create various films, such as short films in Irish and English, while Reel Art is for documentary films on arts based subjects. The film makers receive funding and we receive a small administration fee as well through that. The rest of our funding is through membership fees. We are a members led organisation, and we also generate income ourselves through venue rental, training, equipment rental and so on.

Senator Cáit Keane

Tosóidh mé ar dtús leis an Uas. Ó Domhnaill agus an obair iontach atá ar súil aige le Fíbin i gConarmara. Dúirt sé gur chuir an grúpa 18 as 25 de na leanaí go dtí an tOireachtas. Sin tar éis cúpla mí, cúpla seachtain no cúpla bliain? An bhfuil an documentary "Ar an Imeall" ar fáil fós?

Mr. Micheál Ó Domhnaill

Ar dtús, tá cúpla rud ansin. Documentary a bhí in "Ar an Imeall" le haghaidh Radio na Gaeltachta agus tá sé ar fáil. Tá cóipeanna in áit éigin. Ar an cheist eile, bhí sé suimiúil. Tháinig na gasúir óga seo ó cheann ceann na tíre le chéile, agus chas siad ar a chéile agus rinne siad ceardlann coicíse. Ach ansin, as a stuaim féin, b'fhéidir cúpla mí ina dhiaidh sin, chas siad le chéile arís ag an Oireachtas. An pointe atáim ag iarraidh a dhéanamh ná go bhfuil sé tábhachtach do dhéagóirí go dtagann siad le chéile ag an aois sin. Nuair a théann siad ansin go dtí an ollscoil, táimid lán-dóchasach go dtiocfaidh siad le chéile sna choláistí agus go mbeidh siad i mbun cumainn drámaíochta sna hollscoileanna. Is fiú infheistíocht a dhéanamh leo ag an aois sin, mar fanfaidh sí leo.

Senator Cáit Keane

An bhfuil an grúpa ceangailte leis an National Association for Youth Drama? No. That is a question for Ms Carew as well. Does the National Association for Youth Drama have any Irish youth organisation similar to Fíbin Teo? On the arts strategy, the theory that was originally behind the appointment of arts officers to each county was based on the need to ensure there was a strategy. Each arts officer is bound to develop a county strategy, which is supposed to link into a national strategy. I spent 20 years on a local authority myself and I know it can be piecemeal, but it should be more advanced at this stage because, as we know, arts officers have been there for a while, and the vision of a national strategy has been there for a while. I would go along with that wholeheartedly.

I think it was Ms Carew from the National Association for Youth Drama who asked for a review of the national mapping policy, and I wholeheartedly agree with that. I had just asked for the exact same thing for the Irish language organisations about 15 minutes before she came in the door. That is a necessary action.

On the issue of research in the arts, I studied multiple intelligences myself, and it has been proven that all types of intelligence are used in art and drama education. Dundalk IT has used film with people with Down's syndrome and it has shown very recently the advantages it has in education. In fact, this was on the television only last night. I also have research from America in which Alzheimer's patients were introduced to music. Control groups were mentioned. It has been shown that learning a new musical instrument, for example, can slow down cognitive decline. I actually have that piece of research if anyone is interested. It shows what the arts can do for health. Ms Leahy mentioned this. It is necessary that we as a committee promote the arts from the point of view of what it can do for health. If it were indulged in at an early stage we would have less attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder, and if indulged in at a later stage we would have much less Alzheimer's and everything else that goes with it, even if only because of the social aspect. This is a neglected area in terms of research.

Funding is piecemeal everywhere. The witnesses mentioned an arts partnership forum. I hate to hear about yet another forum, which I immediately think of as another quango. When the strategic policy committees were set up, there was supposed to be a collaborative arts body as part of the arts, culture and the Gaeltacht SPC, which, in turn, was supposed to have a sub-committee of arts groups in each county. That is obviously not working as well as it should be. Maybe the person who sits on the arts SPC puts whatever he or she hears in his or her pocket and never reports back to anybody. That happens in some organisations.

With regard to Filmbase, I do not think it is any excuse for an arts officer to say he or she is not experienced in film. One does not have to have the expertise in-house. Ms Creely said the organisation was able to bring in expertise for little or no cost which would be available to everybody. We take pride in Ardmore Studios and its film productions. What Filmbase is doing is admirable because it is attracting people while they are still young.

I compliment all the witnesses. I am a convert; I would put arts before education, or at least I think it is as important as education.

Ms Michelle Carew

The Senator asked whether we have Irish-language youth theatre members. I think that was the question she was posing. We are open to all youth theatres in all areas, regardless of how they work. We have had Irish-language members in the past, including Na Crosáin in Galway, although at the moment we do not. That is not from design, and we are open to developing that. We have discussed the possibility of having some of our Playshare resources translated to Irish. This is a resource of plays that have been specifically written for young ensembles. It would be great if we could do that.

Arts plans do exist at a local and county level. The difficulty is that they differ from county to county, as I highlighted. For example, in 2009, just after we finished Centre Stage +10, there were 16 drama groups in Cavan under the title Cavan Youth Drama, and a large amount of their funding came from the peace and reconciliation fund. When that ended, 16 drama groups in Cavan ended too. Despite the commitment of the arts officer to the idea of drama in Cavan, her hands were tied because that commitment was not held centrally within the local authority. That is just an example of what can happen; it might not have happened in another county, depending on the resources there. It does differ.

To comment on some of what the Senator mentioned, only on Saturday we heard from Dr. Carmel O'Sullivan from the School of Education in Trinity College, who has been doing a long research project. In her practice, she works with people of all ages with Asperger's syndrome using drama and education. Her research will be published soon and I recommend that the committee read it as it contains some fascinating and insightful work. These were young people who, according to existing knowledge, should not have adapted to the idea of being involved in drama - quite the contrary - but, used in a targeted way, drama has proved to be very beneficial to that group. That is just an aside.

On the idea of county forums, it is essential that participation be voluntary. Representatives of each agency could give their time voluntarily. I do not see that it should necessarily be an issue.

Ms Áine Hyland

The Senator mentioned the multiple intelligences approach. I have done a lot of research in that area, and the reason I offered my services, voluntarily, as chairperson of the NAYD when I retired was precisely that I saw the value, in both formal and informal education, of drama and education techniques. People such as Dr. Carmel O'Sullivan are doing internationally important work using drama and education techniques, and the arts generally, as a learning tool for children on the autism spectrum. That is why we invited her in to work with various arts officers and other people involved in the arts - to indicate to them not only that we should be inclusive, but also how enriching it would be for all of us to work with such children. She discussed techniques of inclusion on Saturday at a very well-attended workshop. I welcome the Senator's comments. I am impressed by the kind of work that is done voluntarily by people working in youth drama around the country. Having spent 50 years in the formal education sector, I am happy to see this complementary work being done, much of which could be of benefit to the formal education sector.

Chairman

I will describe the landscape of where we are coming from. We do not see access to the arts and high-quality arts provision as being two separate things; in fact, we see them as being very much the same. Arts as a social inclusion tool is not a cheaper version of the arts; it actually has a standing of its own.

Ms Hyland - whom I know as Professor Hyland from a previous existence - has a background in multiple intelligences and other areas at third level. There are two things that consistently come up in this committee. While we have many third level institutions, both in the IT sector and in the university sector, there does not seem to be a joint approach between what is happening in the field and what is happening on campus. We are turning out a lot of arts graduates from institutes. Could there be some tightening at master's and PhD level? Senator Mac Conghail referred to researching the current work. A world of research has already been done. We would like to see it being implemented in the field. There are a lot of theoretical frameworks with regard to the implementation of the arts which could be used if a vehicle was found for them.

As somebody who has sat on the other side of the table and issued grants to arts groups, I know the dilemma. Many people have sat on arts committees in local authorities. I chaired one for a period. There is X amount of money available every year and the same groups make the same submissions. If there is an increase or decrease of 10% in the budget the money allocated to groups is increased or decreased by that amount. The problem is that it is very difficult for new groups to enter the field.

We also need to ensure those who are being supported continue to be supported. I share the concerns about once-off funding, which can create many expectations in a community only to have a project collapse six or 12 months later. This committee is considering funding of another area which is opening up our thinking. One of the things that has happened in the committee sector is a move to three year cyclical funding programmes. Such programmes do not have to have a beginning, middle and end, but we could perhaps move to cyclical funding of particular arts initiatives, programmes or theoretical frameworks. Funding would not be given for three years but a series of directions should be considered. A funding model should not be based on the quality of work but rather the rolling out of a particular theoretical framework or approach. The question should be considered.

There is no hospital in the country that does not have a theatre a drama group would not envy. We could consider developing drama in hospitals. It is happening in Europe, where there are string quartets at the reception desks of major hospitals. It is not something that has been dreamt up, it is a matter of course.

Ms Geraldine O’Neill

One of the interesting things we found is that when funding theatres the Arts Council only provides project funding. It does not give us any opportunity to sustain anything. Projects are given a certain sum of money and unless one is a very well run and well known youth theatre it is very difficult to get funding. The funding we are looking at will always come from local authorities. Within that, money tends to be categorised for mental health, etc. As Ms Carew said, we want money to pay rent, the facilitator and for the room which young people work in. People are not looking at fundamental needs. We need sustained funding. Whether the same group continues year after year or a community space for drama changes and develops from time to time, it is important to look at providing space within a community which can be accessed easily.

Another area we are missing out on is providing young people with a bridge to mainstream arts. Many young people I work with would not be able to walk into my youth theatre because they would not have the courage, wherewithal or language. We need to build such bridges in youth groups in the country.

Mr. Dominic Campbell

There is another way of looking at the relationships being discussed. There is a huge amount of research and knowledge of this type of work in this room. Cutting edge activity is happening, particularly in the aging sector. If it was able to align with a university structure for a research process it might be possible to provide small service business industries which would grow from the arts research, backed by universities, which could become self-sustaining. Given the aging population we are starting to examine the area.

Mr. Micheál Ó Dómhnaill

On the three year framework, faoi láthair, tá sé an-deacair orainne ó thaobh cashflow agus cionn is nach bhfuilimid cinnte cénuair a thiocfaidh an t-airgead isteach. I nGaeilge tá sé beagáinín difriúil because it is extremely difficult to run a theatre company when one cannot get a grip on one's cashflow or know when money will come in. We would appreciate a three year structure.

The National Youth Theatre is slightly different because the population areas are not available. We feel it might be good to get the groups together in one place and work with them like a coláiste samhraidh. At the end of the process there would be a professional structure, dráma gairmiúil ag deireadh an phróisis sin, with which professionals would work. We see that as a stepping stone which would be very good for young people, especially in getting them to associate with each other. We are great at bringing people to the Gaeltachtaí but we do not serve children living within them as well as those outside.

Ms Michelle Carew

On the cyclical commitment, I wish to refer to a project I mentioned briefly in my submission. The Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government provided funding for two and a half years to bring in Mr. Thornton to run a community drama training programme. We are trying to put some of what I spoke about in my submission into practice. Mr. Thornton works with community workers and volunteers through a training programme to teach them how to use drama methodologies in their practice with young people. As they begin to use the techniques with groups Mr. Thornton continues to mentor them and provide them with the support and confidence to start to use them. Alongside that, we try to make sure that happens in areas where a youth theatre is in existence and, where necessary, we can help to bridge the gap for young people who may want to try out the local theatre. The pilot project is happening in Drogheda. Mr. Thornton can remind us of the groups that are participating and working with a number of agencies in the town.

Mr. Colin Thornton

There are four different organisations. We are working with three Garda diversion programmes and a local youth service.

Ms Michelle Carew

That is an example of how things can be brought together. The project is at an early stage but we are confident it will be a good model.

Deputy Sandra McLellan

I thank the delegates for coming before the committee. Their presentations were very good and I have learned a lot from them. Aside from funding, what are the main obstacles the groups face?

I found the Filmbase presentation particularly interesting. What does it need to do to expand its project to all counties in Ireland? Access to the arts through formal education is very important. What is its interaction and engagement with local schools? Youth theatre is open to everyone, regardless of class. Are there membership fees and insurance costs? It can be expensive for families, especially if a few children are interested in attending. Who covers the costs?

The delegates indicated that 20 arts officers from 16 counties are involved in the Bealtaine Festival. This seems a rather poor rate of participation. What can be done to improve it? In regard to nursing homes, is it a matter for local arts officers to engage with management to encourage their involvement? Finally, the national mapping exercise is a welcome development.

Mr. Darach Ó Tuairisc

The Deputy asked about the obstacles facing bodies involved in this area. For Fíbin Teo, as an Irish language organisation, the image of the language is a major obstacle. We are all aware that the level of interest in Irish in schools, other than in Gaeltacht or Galltacht areas, is not high. One of our challenges is to make the language as accessible as possible and to show people that learning it can be fun. We are not in the business of pushing the modh coinníolach on people. A great deal of the reluctance we see is from older people, some of whom have stories of being beaten during Irish classes. However, as my father always says, it is not like we were getting cuddles in maths class.

Another major obstacle we face is that our main funder, Údarás na Gaeltachta, is currently under significant pressure, with its funding reduced considerably in recent years. We started off ten years ago as a seed company, through Údarás na Gaeltachta, with half the money coming from the Arts Council and the other half from an Irish-speaking organisation. We were told that seed money would continue for three years after which, if the quality of our offering was good enough, we would be brought under the Arts Council. That never happened. There may be a question of double funding in that we get a small allocation from the Arts Council which also funds half the money we receive. The image within our own community is perhaps that we are sucking up all the cash from others who are trying to start things up. However, we would argue that a larger organisation such as the Arts Council should be funding us at this stage, given that we are now a national organisation rather than a local, Gaeltacht-only operation.

Ms Michelle Carew

Outside of funding, the main obstacles for us would correspond with much of what was set out by the delegates from the Bealtaine Festival. A particular challenge for us relates to the understanding of drama practice itself. It is not a stage school model and nor is it about stardom. Rather, it is about striking the balance between a quality theatre experience and the social and personal development of young people. It is a combined arts and youth work methodology.

That leads into the question of inclusion regardless of class and socioeconomic background. A condition of affiliation to the National Association for Youth Drama is that an organisation cannot charge exorbitant fees. Moreover, it is necessary to have a policy in that regard, which we help groups to devise. The principle is that economics should not get in the way of participation and one must seek to accommodate a young person who cannot afford to pay. Of course, that is easier said than done. A group which is currently seeking to affiliate to us has no funding from anywhere but is doing great work in terms of the participation of young people in its area. Before this organisation can be affiliated, it must secure a certain level of funding to subsidise its activities. We are assisting it in this regard. We have a very defined policy in that all youth theatres are not for profit and nobody is making any money out of them. In many cases they are run on an entirely voluntary basis, apart from some minor payments to facilitators.

Ms Nicky Gogan

In terms of obstacles to participation, I mentioned that access to film making is often ad hoc and dependent on particular projects or particular film makers working in particular areas. We would be happy to invite all of the arts officers to speak to organisations like Filmbase, as well as to the Galway and Cork film centres, about how we might assist people with projects, whether documentaries, animation or drama, by offering access to our equipment and technological expertise. It is a question of ensuring means of access to the different groups throughout the country which have pockets of technology and equipment.

Ms Claire Creely

One of the initiatives in which we are involved is the FilmOffaly project, which started off quite modestly but has grown in sophistication in terms of the types of films being made through the scheme. One of our concerns would be to encourage local arts officers to engage with us. The mapping project is a welcome initiative in this regard. Of the many ad hoc projects and outreach initiatives I have been involved in over the years, some begin with youth groups and their members’ mobile telephones or the free software that is available on YouTube. It is about embracing the tools at one’s disposal. We are keen to break down the barriers around film making so that it is not seen as a scary endeavour which requires lots of money. We would be very open to approaching arts officers with that in mind. It is also about engaging with those bodies that are willing and able to provide support and resources. For instance, the Institute of Technology, Dundalk has incredible equipment and is very open to collaborating with organisations in parts of the country where those types of resources are not available. Making films with community groups is totally accessible as a result of new technologies.

Ms Ann Leahy

We face a range of challenges in our work. Access for older people is uneven nationally, both in terms of quantity and quality. I have already referred to sustainability. I agree with what was said regarding a lack of recognition of the value of this type of work - that is a significant obstacle. I also dwelt on the need for a better policy infrastructure to support our endeavours. There is a major issue in terms of engaging with the very hard-to-reach groups of older people. Some of the organisations we work with have developed a great deal of experience in working, for example, with people in care or those who are housebound. What is required is more mentoring and training opportunities based on existing good practice. When the funding for one of these projects ends, the knowledge and skills that were built up would not die with it if a more cohesive structure were in place.

Regarding a greater engagement with nursing homes, some of them initiate that engagement themselves. Last year some 120 long-stay or continuing care facilities for older people took part in the Bealtaine Festival. Some do so under their own steam while others approach the local arts officer or arts centre. There are also arts offices and centres which have initiated projects in care, as we have done. That is what I mean about the skills and knowledge that are out there. In some cases partnerships have been set up between a range of agencies such as the VEC, local authority arts officer, arts centre and so on. An entire consortium comes together to ensure there is engagement with local nursing homes.

Mr. Dominic Campbell

On the question of how to encourage greater participation by arts officers, the first point to make is that those who are involved do exceptional work throughout the State. However, such issues as scale, environment and staffing resources vary throughout the State. That aside, increased age awareness training within local authorities would be very welcome. Also of benefit would be a recognition at the level of city and county manager of the contribution of engagement in arts activities to the quality of life within communities. We would also welcome an inclusion of this work in the written arts plans. Finally, there is the question of education. Many arts officers come through the courses in third level institutions to which reference was made earlier. It would be good if there were mentoring programmes or other ways of bringing this work into those organisations.

Deputy Marcella Corcoran Kennedy

I thank our guests for their excellent presentations. The presentations we have received in recent weeks point to the high level of arts activity throughout the country and the fact that many people of all ages, whether through participation or otherwise, can access it. However, it is also becoming clear that there is no real cohesion. We must ask whether we want cohesion. Do we want a situation where things develop organically, do we want to organise what occurs or do we want both? I have a particular interest in community theatre and film and I must declare that I am a member of the board of Filmbase.

The first local authority arts officers were appointed 25 years ago. However, not every authority had such an officer at that time. There appears to be something of a disconnect between what the arts officers are doing at local level and what the Arts Council is promoting. I am of the opinion that we need to marry the two. I would love to hear our guests' thoughts on this matter. I am aware that there is a very good relationship between the arts officers and the council. If our guests have any thoughts on this matter, I would love to hear them. If they do not, that is fine. I do not want to put any of them under pressure because I know from where the funding for their organisations comes.

Will the representatives from Fibín Teo indicate whether there is easy access to community theatres throughout the country? Are these theatres community based or are they run by local authorities? Does Fibín contact these theatres or do they initiate contact when they are putting in place their programming?

I wish to return to the issue of multi-annual funding. Birr Theatre & Arts Centre, with which I am involved, receives its funding as a community enterprise. This is because Pobal, which provides the funding, sees the centre as an enterprise, not as a theatre. Pobal is not considering the arts outcomes, as such, rather it is looking at the enterprise. The centre receives multi-annual funding, which is brilliant because it means that there is certainty with regard to three years' worth of money and plans can be made accordingly. When I speak to other people involved with arts organisations throughout the country, I am always fascinated by the fact that this is not the case for many of those organisations. I am of the view that the committee should recommend the use of multi-annual funding structures because this would place everyone on a much more even keel and allow organisations to plan for their enterprises. After all, the various organisations represented here are all arts enterprises. Will our guests comment on this matter?

Volunteerism was the subject of some discussion with representatives from the GAA at one of our previous meetings. It has been stated that the levels of volunteerism throughout the country are dropping but evidence at local level contradicts this. There has certainly not been a decrease in the level of volunteerism in the arts. There are high levels of voluntary and community-based artistic activity taking place in the area in which I live. This is a reflection of what is happening in the community. Regardless of whether it is younger or older people, there is a cohort of volunteers that is always available. A previous speaker referred to nursing units. I am aware of a community nursing unit where local people who all have talents in one area or another provide engagement through the arts to the elderly individuals who live there. It is great that this is happening. However, I am concerned that if, as happened in Cavan, someone drops out, everything will collapse. We must, therefore, figure out how to ensure that people, regardless of their age, will have the kind of access we want them to have.

On mapping, etc., I was involved in the national campaign for the arts and the first thing one was obliged to do was discover the location of the research, the outcomes and the basic facts and figures. There was very little information available in this regard and one was obliged to go trawling in order to try to obtain that which did exist. We are aware, however, that there is research available. Instead of establishing another quango that we do not need in order to try to collate all the research, would it not be possible to share that research voluntarily on a central website? The ownership of the information placed on such a website would be clear and it would assist people in planning for the future. I may be rambling a bit in respect of this matter but I must admit that I feel strongly about it.

I am aware that Ms Gogan has a great deal of experience as a producer and director. Will she provide an example of how her engagement with a community impacted upon the members of that community?

When I was a member of a local authority, the main topic of discussion every year centred on which budgets would be cut and we all waited anxiously for the money from the local government fund to arrive. Invariably, the arts budget was the one to which the knife was taken. I hated the thought that each November I would be obliged to engage in a battle to protect the arts budget. Even though there is so much talent available in this country I do not know whether we understand how good we are in the area of the arts. I do not believe we do understand how good we are and we tend to take it for granted. If we did understand how great we actually are in this area, then we would - across a range of Departments - invest a great deal more in it. We must establish whose responsibility it is to ensure that those who make the decisions understand what is required. Do all of us present have a role to play in this regard or are we all content to do our own thing and not consider the bigger picture? This is a matter to which I have given some consideration in recent times.

In the context of outcomes, Birr Theatre & Arts Centre has reached the stage where it is liaising with local hoteliers, etc., in order to establish the number of bed nights it is generating. We are obliged to do this in order to justify the money we receive from the local authority and to make a case to the various other providers of funding.

It appears to be the case that throughout the country many partnerships have been established with a view to pulling in funding from many and various sources. Is this a good or a bad development? What are our guests' views on this matter, which revolves, to a large degree, around the fact that people are spending a great deal of time trying to locate money? If such money is only being sought for a particular project, then this will not translate into a programme which can be rolled out to other interested parties or groups.

I accept that I have posed a number of general questions. In that context, I ask that any of our guests who wish to do so should feel free to provide answers to them.

Chairman

I agree with Deputy Corcoran Kennedy that everyone should feel free to answer the questions she has posed. This is because I will be taking concluding comments as well as such answers from our guests. Anybody who has not already made a contribution or who wishes to make an additional contribution should please feel free to do so.

Ms Geraldine O’Neill

The National Association for Youth Drama was established 27 years ago. We have previously been asked to provide multi-annual planning but we have never received multi-annual funding. We are currently not even asked for multi-annual funding plans and we are funded year by year. Approximately five or six years ago we were asked to provide multi-annual plans. Now we are what is known as a regularly funded organisation. The notion of multi-annual funding appears to me to be extremely practical because it means that if an organisation receives multi-annual funding, it is obliged to submit multi-annual plans. In turn, the latter means that such an organisation is not obliged to scramble in order to obtain money. It can submit its plan and the Arts Council will decide whether to fund it for a period of three or four years. This has been a great idea but it is simply sitting there with the Arts Council at present. Due to the fact that there is less and less funding going to the council, there are fewer opportunities for us to avail of the type of multi-annual funding to which the Deputy refers. Such funding would make life much easier for us. The need to scramble around for money means that one wastes a great deal of time one could spend on a project which could be sustainable.

Ms Michelle Carew

On the question of cohesion-----

Chairman

I apologise for interrupting but will those who wish to contribute please indicate their intent in this regard to the Chair.

Ms Michelle Carew

I am sorry about that. The Deputy inquired as to whether we want cohesion. A natural and wonderful difference happens at local level and that should be protected. The NAYD is an example of where one can have cohesion and also have difference. In terms of membership, each youth theatre is different. They all operate in different ways and do different things. As a membership organisation, we provide a national cohesiveness. We guide those involved on what is good quality and what they need to do. We provide them with training. We run a national programme of events in which young people can directly interact and in which they can get involved. That is a good example of cohesiveness. It is about ensuring that there is not uniformity in practice but uniformity in quality and we offer responsibility for providing that. That is what cohesion is at its best.

Regarding volunteerism, when NAYD was first set up 32 years ago, youth theatre was predominantly a voluntary activity. In the ten years prior to Centre Stage + 10, which was released in 2009, there was a huge growth in local authority established youth theatres, which was, basically, where a local arts office directly set up a youth theatre for the locality. Since 2009, it has reversed to the old situation whereby the calls we receive and the new theatres being established are predominantly coming from voluntary and community initiatives. Therefore, the volunteer is definitely alive and well and it is a question of providing volunteers with support and guidance to enable them to do what they do best at a local level.

Ms Nicky Gogan

The Deputy asked about my experience of engaging with different communities in regard to film. I spent the last five weeks in Leitrim working with Studio North West, which is a new cluster that has emerged in the Leitrim-Sligo area. It was born out of Cinema North West. It is same group of people who are creating this cluster and they have received small amounts of funding from various resources. The project in which I was involved was a feature film that was self-funded. A sense of community spirit and volunteering played a huge role in it. The story that fills the backdrop to the film is about the boy racers scene in the north west. A large number of young people who unfortunately are now unemployed had an amazing time working on the project with us. We ended up with two full-time on-set mechanics, who were unemployed young guys we met through one of the other crew members. We had other people from Dromahair, who had careers but are now unemployed, who helped in the roles of location manager and action vehicle co-ordinators. One gentleman was an archaeologist who had lost his job and he is now working on this film project. We had people like that all the way through to young people who worked as interns and trainees on a fully fledged feature film project. It is completely self-directed from a group in Leitrim and Sligo who meet every month. That was an amazing initiative and it crosses over many of the issues we are talking about here. Hopefully, the film will be good but we ran a super professional full feature film with a crew. Many of the people were trainees or volunteers.

In one sense, film is a brilliant art fermenting vehicle for groups to engage with because there are so many different roles in film. If one wants to perform, one can take on that role, but there are many different jobs in film ranging from making props to the production and organisation side. When I have worked with youth groups, which comprises most of my experience, apart from the Studio North West project, I have noted that depending on whether one is shy, outgoing or fascinated with the camera, there always seems to be a place for most of the people we worked with, which makes film a holistic art form for community groups to engage with. That has been my general experience of it.

Mr. Dominic Campbell

The Deputy asked about whether we want to have cohesion, my observation is that we do not want everything to be the same. We want them to be as diverse and as rich as possible but we also want them to be as informed as they possibly can and therefore to have the best quality that is possible. It would be remiss of me if I did not offer the members a Bealtaine Festival programme and they can see what this looks like in real life.

Mr. Darach Ó Tuairisc

On the Deputy's question regarding venues, when we started off as a company the idea was to bring a high production Irish language theatre to venues to enable children to experience a venue setting. There was a good deal of Irish language productions taking place in classrooms and school halls, but we wanted to give a professional look to the experience. Initially, it was difficult for us to get into venues because we had an Irish language production and we were told there was no audience for it. The other problem we had, which is still an issue, was to find that 200-seater venue within the country. For example, Cork city has a 100-seater venue, an 800-seater venue and a 1,000-seater venue. There is also the issue of the cost involved in that. It is not worth putting on a production in a 100-seater venue and it is definitely not worth putting it on in a 1000-seater venue. Those are small issues. Now we are established, having gone into production number 22, we have strong relationships with venues and that is not as much an issue as it was previously. We prided ourselves on bringing Irish language theatre to places that never experienced it, such as the Ballroom of Romance in Leitrim in the middle of nowhere which was a fantastic experience for us. Unfortunately, we had to end that because we cannot afford to go to such venues and transform them into proper theatres. We believe that many people are missing out on that experience.

I am glad the Deputy mentioned creativity. We are terrible at connecting the arts with creativity. Many of the world's greatest inventions came out of Ireland. I cite the submarine, which involved massive creativity. We would never make the connection between whatever field one works in and creativity. Even in politics, one must be creative and all that comes out of arts and development.

Deputy Marcella Corcoran Kennedy

We know all about that.

Mr. Darach Ó Tuairisc

Yes. Irish society does not make that connection. A more cohesive message needs to be got across to the public about how the arts are fantastic at developing people's skills, especially at a young age. Once one starts at a young age, one can develop that through the ages and it works quite well.

Regarding the Deputy's question on volunteering, we work closely with NUIG which has officers based in An Cheathrú Rua. An issue for us is that we do not have space to house volunteers all the time. When we are doing productions, we can only bring in a certain number of people. Our office is quite small and we do not have the room and facilities to house enough people. We would like to do that more. That is where we are at.

Mr. Micheál Ó Dómhnaill

I wish to point out that we provide a good deal of employment. Sometimes we are looked at as organisations that just take up the stage but we provide a good deal of employment. I would like the members to consider all the empty spaces in towns and villages all over Ireland which could be made available for arts group to work in. In my home area there are estates upon factory estates in which nothing is happening and it does not appear anything will happen in them soon. It would be great if one or a few of those spaces were made available to arts groups like ourselves.

Mr. Darach Ó Tuairisc

These would be outside NAMA properties.

Chairman

I thank the witnesses. In concluding this afternoon's session, I wish to say, on behalf of committee members, that we have been struck by the quality, diversity, the energy within the sector and the skill sets which are quite refreshing. At present, politicians need to come up with a brilliant idea that does not cost any money and that will make money at the same time. That is the sort of creativity that is demanded of politicians today. It has been wonderful to witness the energy among the members of the groups present and their commitment to quality and the diversity that exists in the sector. I echo what Deputy Corcoran-Kennedy said about the sector needing to have cohesion but that it also needs to have a level of conformity. That is something with which we have to struggle as we move through this process.

We have a number of sessions left in this module. All the witnesses are welcome to sit in on the remaining sessions, to follow them online or to read the transcripts of them. If they consider anything was absent in their presentations and submissions this afternoon, the option is open to them to contact us on that. On behalf of the committee, I thank the witnesses for the time they took to come before us and for their level of engagement. That concludes this stage of our consideration of the topic. I thank Micheál Ó Dómhnaill, Darach Ó Tuairisc, Áine Hyland, Michelle Carew, Geraldine O'Neill, Colin Thornton, Claire Creely, Nicky Gogan, Ann Leahy and Dominic Campbell for assisting us in our deliberations today. They witnesses are now excused.

The joint committee adjourned at 4.40 p.m. until 2.15 p.m. on Tuesday, 17 April 2012.