JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT debate -
Thursday, 21 Jun 2012

North-South Co-operation across Sectoral Areas and Funding Programme: Discussion

Chairman

The next business is a discussion with members of the Northern Ireland Assembly and Business Trust. I welcome the delegation from the trust which is led by Mr. Leslie Cree, MLA, and Mr. Glyn Roberts and includes a number of familiar faces. The group has been here for 48 hours and is having a productive time, both from a political and business networking point of view. I presume there has also been a social aspect to the visit, which can be more productive from a political and business point of view than formal engagements. Our guests appeared before the Joint Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation and held a number of other meetings yesterday.

Before inviting Mr. Cree to commence proceedings, I advise witnesses that they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of utterances at the committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease making remarks on a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their remarks. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against a Member of either House, a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I invite Mr. Cree to make his opening presentation.

Mr. Leslie Cree, MLA

I congratulate the Chairman on his election and assure him I will try my best to avoid the bad things he warned us about. My colleagues and I appreciate the welcome so readily afforded to us since our visit commenced yesterday morning. It seems to have lasted much longer. Unfortunately, we still have a propensity to enjoy ourselves and it is not always a good idea to do so late into the night.

I will say a few words about the work of the Northern Ireland Assembly and Business Trust, as I am aware the Oireachtas does not have a similar organisation. The trust was established by the Northern Ireland Assembly in 2002 with the purpose of offering parliamentarians and the business sector in Northern Ireland an educational and information discussion forum around which each side could develop a greater understanding of their respective needs. It is an independent, neutral and self-financing educational charity which organises programmes for Assembly Members and business representatives. This involves briefings, usually at breakfast time, seminars, educational visits and fellowship placements where a Member of the Assembly may visit and spend a day at a particular business. These placements have been highly successful. The model for the trust is similar to that of like bodies in Westminster and many other jurisdictions. Its aim is to provide Assembly Members with a better insight into how business works, while ensuring business people understand the difficulty of parliamentarians. The common goal is to promote the local economy, and we work together very well in that respect.

Why are representatives of the Northern Ireland Assembly and Business Trust here? As an educational charity, we have a desire to provide an educational platform for both the business community and politicians. In the years since devolution in 2007, the trust has reacted to the needs of its members by providing an increasingly varied programme. In 2009, we embarked on our first educational trip to Brussels, and such trips have become an annual event in our calendar. In 2011, we embarked on an educational trip to Westminster and will visit Westminster again in September. In late 2011, our board of trustees expressed a wish to explore the possibility of a trip such as this to provide our members with an insight into the workings of some of the key committees in the Houses of the Oireachtas and other key personnel in Dublin. I am pleased to note that we are well on the way to achieving this objective because this has been a most successful, informative and enjoyable visit. We look forward to discussing some of the relevant issues with members. Mr. Roberts, the vice chairman of the trust and a member of the business community, will now say a few words.

Mr. Glyn Roberts

I congratulate the Chairman on his elevation and thank him for his hospitality in the Dáil bar. I will return the hospitality any time he is passing east Belfast. I echo the words of Mr. Cree on the role of the trust as a partnership between the business community and politicians at Stormont. It is important that businesses develop an understanding of the role of an MLA and a Minister and, likewise, that Ministers and MLAs understand the role of and pressures faced by the business community. The trust is very representative of the business community and has members from the smallest to the largest businesses across every sector. We have ensured this understanding, which is essential if we are to move the economy forward, is centre stage.

Given the nature of politics in Northern Ireland, the business community has traditionally not been involved with political parties in a substantive way, as is perhaps the case in this State and elsewhere in the United Kingdom. It is important, therefore, that it actively engages with policymakers at Stormont and ensures the private sector has a key role in the development of policy. We have seen this level of engagement in the programme for government, economic strategy, and the investment strategy, all of which have the economy as a whole at their centre. The trust would welcome greater engagement between the joint committee and business organisations in the North. It is important, therefore, that we continue to build on our relationship.

In policy terms, we have brought together eight business organisations outside the trust to produce a jobs plan. This is the first time business groups, including my own, have come together to produce a joint policy. The policy was published ahead of the Assembly elections and shows that businesses are not only moaning and complaining, as they often do, but also, crucially, they are bringing solutions to the table. My colleagues from the private sector are here in strength and I am sure they will be keen to answer any questions members may have.

Chairman

I open up the debate to members for questions.

Deputy Frank Feighan

I congratulate the Chairman on his elevation and thank Deputy Joanna Tuffy for the work she has done in the past year. Members have endeavoured to make more visits to Northern Ireland and I congratulate Deputy Tuffy on the work she has done in this regard. Our visits have been highly informative for all members.

I welcome members of the Northern Ireland Assembly and Business Trust. In another life before I became involved in politics I was involved in business. I know first-hand because I employed up to 30 people at one stage. Sometimes people do despair and wonder whether politicians understand their issues. I was also president of my local chamber of commerce and there was more politics in the chamber of commerce than in real politics. I will not say that it was nearly as nasty. When I got involved in the local authority, I was struck by the politicians' lack of information on business issues. They did not understand that people had to run their businesses in a certain way and if they did not survive, there were no real safety nets. At the time we had an economy that was supposed to be growing, but everything was put back onto the business community. If the local authority wanted more money, the rates would just be increased. I said at the time that this could not go on. We then priced ourselves out of the market. We now have to look at government the way people look at their businesses. If their outgoings are more than their incomings, they are in trouble. The interaction between the witnesses - we need to set up our own committee down here - is very necessary because there is not enough of it.

How do the witnesses feel politicians can assist their endeavours to ensure more cross-Border business? Should we be going on more trips to Stormont? The delegation has a market that is one hour down the road, while we have a market that is one hour up the road. We spend a lot of time looking at different markets in China, the UK and Europe, yet we both have markets on our doorsteps that we are ready to tap into. I believe we speak the same language, although I think Deputy McHugh speaks with the same accent as well. I shared an office with him for five years, so I have nearly learned it off at this stage.

I welcome the witnesses here. It is an endeavour, but sometimes politicians do not connect with people such as the witnesses who are providing employment and real opportunities on the ground, and vice versa. Sometimes groups like this delegation only engage with politicians when it comes to an election or something like that. This is very opportune and the delegation is very welcome. We have to build on this.

Chairman

Thank you. I will take one more contribution and we will open the floor to the panel. I call on Deputy Ó Ríordáin.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

I congratulate the Chairman on his election and I thank Deputy Tuffy for all her work. I am a Dublin based TD and I cannot pretend to know a whole lot about the situation in Northern Ireland, although I am trying to learn. It would appear to me that the economy is disproportionately reliant on the public sector. There has been a huge amount of public sector investment as part of the peace process. Austerity and the shrinkage of the purchasing power of individuals are having a disproportionate effect on Northern Ireland when compared with anywhere else in the UK. Can the witnesses comment on that public sector and private sector balance? How is it a challenge? Where is the growth potential in Northern Ireland for the private sector? I have always worked in the public sector as a teacher, and now as a public representative. I have since learned more about the demands, constraints and challenges of business than I ever had before. Employment is something that we all worry about. Do the witnesses feel that the balance in Northern Ireland towards the public sector is evening out in a more positive way?

Chairman

I will go to Gráinne Walsh first and then Glyn Roberts for responses. If anybody else wishes to respond, they can indicate to me.

Ms Gráinne Walsh

My name is Gráinne Walsh and I work with Stratagem. We are a small company in Belfast and we employ ten people. We have just come from a meeting at the Department of Foreign Affairs and we were reassured by the Secretary General that in its approach to international trade issues, anything good for Northern Ireland is good for Ireland. That is very supportive for our need to develop trade. It dovetails perfectly with Deputy Feighan's question, because a major focus of the programme for Government laid out by the Executive is to grow the economy and rebalance the economy. Not only does that mean reducing the public sector, but also to grow the private sector. Unfortunately the most recent labour force figures published last week showed an increase in unemployment across the board, with both the private sector and public sector letting people go.

The real challenge is to get people in employment. It is also about getting private sector access to public procurement in an efficient and effective way; not only in Northern Ireland, but in the Republic of Ireland as well. Many private sector businesses are dependent on public sector work, so even if a person is not directly employed by the State, he or she is dependent on State contracts. This is a long road ahead, but the goodwill we have experienced thus far is very interesting.

Former Senator George Mitchell spoke to this committee recently and he said that the Good Friday Agreement did not guarantee stability in itself, but it was the start of something. Encouraging the business community to grow and focusing on the island of Ireland as a place to do business is what will consolidate the peace, so that is a main feature of what this committee can do to help Northern Ireland.

Mr. Glyn Roberts

The Good Friday Agreement was essentially based on three strands. There was not enough time in 1998 to include the fourth strand, which is the economy. Subsequent to the St. Andrews Agreement, there was much greater need to ensure that when devolution was restored, they could hit the ground running to address the economic challenges. One of the biggest challenges is not the fact that our public sector is too big; it is that our private sector is so small. How do we re-profile the Northern Ireland economy in the right way? It is about being more attractive to more foreign direct investment and getting corporation tax devolved to the Assembly and the Executive is key to that. That was very clear in our discussions with the Secretary General of the Department of Foreign Affairs about an hour ago. We spoke about this State holding on to a reduced rate of corporation tax to make it competitive. The only way to get out of a recession is to grow out of a recession.

The other crucial point is related to the indigenous business base. The Northern Ireland economy is a small business economy, as 99% of all business is small business. Our retail sector is the largest sector and as is happening in this State, it is obviously going through a very tough time. There are big challenges involved, but I think the business community has not been found wanting in providing solutions. All business groups have put out manifestos. There is regular engagement with all of the Ministers.

Deputy Feighan asked how to develop the North-South agenda. Alban McGuinness MLA made a presentation to the enterprise committee and he pointed out that the way to build North-South relations in an inclusive fashion is to take the politics out of it. The retail sector is to some extent an all-island sector, because customers will come from wherever. My members do not care where the customers as long as they go into their shops. There are many issues involved, but I think they take the politics out of it. I do not mean that in a derogatory way to Deputies, Senators, MLAs or MPs, but perhaps that is the way to look at it. The progress made in establishing the North-South parliamentary forum is worth noting in that respect. An announcement is due to be made today in this regard. Thus, progress is being made through the development of an inclusive North-South approach that threatens no one.

Deputy Seán Conlan

I congratulate Deputy McHugh on his election as Chairman of the committee. I also commend Deputy Tuffy on her chairmanship.

I welcome everyone to the committee meeting today. My name is Seán Conlan and I am a Deputy from Monaghan. The international dynamic in developing foreign direct investment in Northern Ireland and here in the Republic was mentioned. With regard to the development of business in the region, and with regard to access to markets in Monaghan, Cavan and Louth for businesses in Northern Ireland and access to Northern Ireland for businesses in Monaghan, Cavan and Louth, what are the main barriers currently for those local businesses? Is there a transport network? I am referring to wholesalers. Traditionally, those in Monaghan would have bought their goods in Belfast, but that has changed now, and things are veering more towards Dublin. For a Northern Ireland business to get access to those markets, and for people in Monaghan, Cavan and similar regions to get access to Northern Ireland, what deficits exist that need to be dealt with? What needs to change at a local or regional level to make it easier for business people to do business across the Border? Is this still an issue, or is it not considered an issue any more? What are the main problems that exist? It is to do with basic transport infrastructure across the counties? I am surrounded by Fermanagh on one side and Armagh on the other, and Tyrone is beside me as well. At a local level, construction companies tend to do a lot of business in public contracts on our side of the Border, but this is not so much the case for wholesalers and smaller manufacturers. Even though it is easy to connect within two hours via the corridor between Dublin and Belfast, on a local level, going from Newry to Monaghan or from Monaghan to Enniskillen, the basic infrastructure has not been put in place, so it is difficult to trade even at that level. What needs to happen to make it easier for businesses on both sides of the Border to develop opportunities?

Deputy Seán Crowe

I congratulate the Chairman on his appointment and thank the outgoing Chairman, Deputy Tuffy, for the inclusive way in which she chaired the meetings. Her time in the Chair was very progressive.

I welcome the witnesses. The work that the group is doing is interesting, including the formal way in which it interacts with elected representatives. We could probably learn from a similar structure. They might expand on the actual work and their experience to date. Would it be helpful, for instance, if we had a similar structure here which tied in with the group?

I want to ask some bigger questions about the impact on businesses in the North of, for example, regulations in the banking sector. We know that two of the four regulated banks are owned by AIB. What impact is this having? We recently spoke with the chairman of NAMA. We are aware of the €3.2 billion in assets in the North and the fact that the banking sector in the South has around €3 billion in non-performing loans. What is the impact of this? All of this creates instability and worry. Is there anything we can do to smooth the way? We have raised in this committee the impact that NAMA would have and worries about a possible fire sale.

I am also interested in some of the things that have been happening in the North with regard to helping local businesses - for example, the breaking down of contracts and the social clause. During the Celtic tiger years we did not do these simple things such as breaking down large contracts so that local companies could avail of them. It is those lessons that are important. What has worked in Northern Ireland could work for us. It is also a question of co-operation. Many people talk about the instability caused to businesses, particularly in Border areas, by the annual budget, whether it be in the South or in the Northern Ireland Assembly. If the price of petrol goes up in one jurisdiction, this can cause problems. The group has an agenda in that it came to meet with representatives of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. Are there things we can raise, as a committee or as parliamentarians, with regard to how we can help in promoting some of the work it is doing?

There was a recent visit to China by the Taoiseach and senior Ministers, during which we tried to sell the island of Ireland in terms of business and so on. Is there a role there for the group or for businesses in this regard? Is there a role for the Irish Government and Ministers in promoting business contacts? Do the representatives feel that can be increased in terms of the work that goes on abroad? There is increasing co-operation in promoting the island of Ireland in terms of tourism and so on. Such co-operation is starting to increase for businesses also. Can that be enhanced?

Mr. Leslie Cree, MLA

I will kick off, although I would like to hear from the rest of the team.

The issue of NAMA is very important. We had a lengthy session with Frank Daly yesterday, which was helpful, and I must say that so far it has worked fairly well. We had an assurance that there would not be a fire sale. This is important for a range of reasons.

The issue of the trade between North and South was mentioned this morning at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. Mr. Cooney told us that anything that was good for Northern Ireland was good for the South, so we should all co-operate and work together. That is fine, and that is what should happen, broadly. However, as Deputy Crowe mentioned, when we get down to it, there is a wee word in there that people do not like to use, which is "competition". We do get a bit of competition locally, and we just have to live with that. As someone with a business background, I am supportive of that. It is important for all of us.

Our First Minister and Deputy First Minister have already gone to some of the BRIC countries, and I understand they are going to others. Unfortunately, they came back again. I do not think they would appreciate our taking on that role, but we would probably be geared to do it. It is a model. Deputy Feighan asked a question on this earlier. We have proved that this system works. It is helpful to both sides. We are still learners at it ourselves, and we work together. There is a lot to be gained from it. I will not say any more than that. Mr. Rooney might have a view on competition.

Mr. John Rooney

At our last meeting, one of the policies discussed was co-operation. Being from the seafood industry, I find there is a lack of co-operation between our two Governments. I know it is a question of competition. Everybody wants to keep their own pieces of cake and eat them, but if they got together rather than trying to cut one another's throats all the time, there would be a more powerful organisation. That is really what does happen - it is cutting one another's throats. We have quotas, days at sea, and restrictions on this and that. As I said yesterday, if we have a problem that we have to go to Westminster about, we must wait for the Minister there to say whether he will take it to Brussels. However, we could still co-operate with each other North and South, and there would be better trade between the two sides. It would work out.

I have always said that on both sides of any committee, they are all politicians. They are MLAs and politicians. I do not have anything like the education of a barrister or a schoolteacher. My education was fairly limited. I taught myself to talk.

Mr. Leslie Cree, MLA

He obviously succeeded.

Mr. John Rooney

I needed to do that to get where I am. However, there are no business people included in any committee. It is all right having all politicians and everybody to make decisions. There can be business people on a committee. Yesterday, it was mentioned that it is difficult to get business people to become politicians and I stated that one can say more from the outside than one can say from the inside. Looking at the two committees, North and South, there should be more input from the business sector and from the organisations of which those business people would be members, because they would bring things forward to committees that this committee or any of our committees would never hear. That is a point I have always made.

On the co-operation bit, it needs to change. In fact, it will be looked into.

Deputy Joanna Tuffy

I thank the members of the Northern Ireland Business Trust for coming to the committee. Many of the issues it would face would be similar to those faced by business people down here. On the need to try to get businesses to take on new employees or to expand, are enough measures being taken by the administration in the North to help? Is there anything that is needed or is there something that is working quite well?

The trust probably represents both large and small business, but I am aware that the size of retail outlets is an issue. There can be a very large development just outside of a town but that then has an impact on small businesses. Obviously, that creates tension between one wanting competition on the one hand and, on the other, one not wanting to wipe out small towns and the businesses within them. Does the delegation have policy on that issue?

Senator Martin McAleese

I congratulate the Chairman on his appointment. I pay tribute to Deputy Tuffy for her work as his predecessor.

I welcome the trust. We spoke a little about the cross-Border issues and the obstacles that are in the way of a much more coherent cross-Border business model. To take Deputy Crowe's point about the more general aspects of trade between countries, we know to our cost that the European economy is in great difficulty and that difficulty has spilled throughout the global economy, which is trying to reinvent itself. Mr. Cree mentioned the impact of the BRIC countries, which is emerging as a real dynamic in the reinvention of the world market. Both jurisdictions on this island must respond to that reinventing world market. Both jurisdictions have developed their own economic growth plans. I suggest those two growth plans overlap in many areas. Should we be looking closely at developing a strategy in terms of the overlapping pieces in order that we can leverage our fullest resource and expertise in addressing the issues of the new global market? How do we do that and to what extent are conversations taking place around that? I would see that as very important.

We are a small island. We are right at the periphery of Europe. We have certain advantages, one to the other. There would be certain difficulties around competition, as Mr. Rooney mentioned earlier. Obviously, people want to retrench in times of economic difficulty. However, we must look outwards as well and think in terms of the island economy. Some refer to it as the third economy or the two-jurisdictional economy to get round the political issues resulting from the use of the term "all-island economy" and what that might convey constitutionally. Should we be placing a great deal of emphasis now on the development of our island approach to the emerging global markets? How do we do that? What structures are needed? If there are no conversations about that, should there be conversations now?

Chairman

There will be an interest in the retail side of things. Retail planning guidelines arose last night. I was struck by Mr. Roberts' remarks. He mentioned that they, as a business community, came to politicians with a joint working paper. I commend him on doing that because it is both proactive and positive. My question is whether the politicians have taken on board the business community's suggestions.

Mr. Glyn Roberts

I will respond. I think Ms Turnbull wants to make a few remarks as well. I thank Deputy Tuffy for her question. We believe in strong, vibrant town and city centres. We have some terrific town and city centres, North and South. It is about a strategy which protects those and ensures we get retail investment into town and city centres. I will leave it at that. I could go on. We have produced our own document and I will write to the committee on that.

Deputy Tuffy mentioned the jobs plan. That was a document drawn together by eight business groups which produced 45 policy priorities for the main parties ahead of the Assembly last year and a number of the points were, as it were, cut and pasted into the programme for Government economic strategy. It was important that the business community in Northern Ireland spoke with one voice on the big ticket issues. There is not much point in us lecturing politicians to get their act together if we, as business organisations, do not do likewise.

On some of the broad points Deputies have been making, Tourism Ireland and InterTradeIreland have a key role to play in all of this. I note InterTradeIreland is about to appoint a new chief executive. It is time to look at those two organisations to see are they fit for purpose and the ways in which we can give greater support to what they are trying to do, especially on the tourism side. This is an important year for Northern Ireland with the Titanic signature project. We have a good story to tell.

It is important we look at what Great Britain has been doing on the roll-out of enterprise zones. The next big debate in the business community is likely to be the type of enterprise zone or zones we need in the North and how can we use some of the capital allowances from the Treasury. I would be keen to ensure support for places like Strabane and Enniskillen which did not get the investment in infrastructure. We need to ensure if we get corporation tax and more foreign direct investment, FDI, that it does not go only to the greater Belfast area and that it goes to people like those in Mr. McClarty's constituency in Limavady, Coleraine and Strabane. Such areas have a relatively low number of business start-ups and have not been successful in attracting FDI. It is about addressing the sub-regional economy and ensuring it is not only the greater Belfast area that benefits.

Ms Brenda Turnbull

I congratulate the Chairman on his appointment. I want to pick up on points two of the Deputies made.

Deputy Tuffy asked if there is anything this committee could do in terms of the thinking. My business is concerned with economic, social and physical regeneration. We have seven partners in Europe and, I am ashamed to say, nobody in the South of Ireland as of yet. I understand the North-South Council stems from the Good Friday Agreement, and its remit is to look at the boundaries from the Waterways Ireland undertaking. If we are to consider the two jurisdictions having common economic and growth plans, then tourism needs to be included as business because one is reliant on the other. I wonder if this committee has any influence in looking at how the remit of Waterways Ireland could be extended to Lough Neagh and the Lagan Canal and join Ireland up in that sense.

Chairman

I will return to Ms Turnbull on that point. I will allow Mr. Rooney first.

Mr. John Rooney

On the question of jobs, I am an employer on both sides of the Border and I find the level of benefits are too high. People do not want to work because they would rather collect benefits and this is the case on both sides of the Border. I have business on both sides of the Border, one producing seafood and I would prefer not to say what is the other business - it is alcohol. I have placed advertisements for jobs on both sides of the Border but because of the level of benefits, people would rather stay on benefits. It happens in the North and more so in the South that an employer cannot open his mouth to an employee because the employee will bring a case of unfair dismissal against the employer. There tends to be more leniency towards the employee here in the South and they do not take into consideration the employer's side. The commissioners need to be changed because they are too set in their ways and they need to look at the broader picture. It is not the employer's fault in all cases even though there can be problems with employers.

Mr. Leslie Cree, MLA

To address the very good point made by Senator Martin McAleese, I agree with him. Much work is already under way, both at political level and on the ground. However, there is room for more work. It must be borne in mind about the economy that while we are chasing these far-off markets - and this is to be encouraged - we must never lose sight of the fact that the biggest market is at home, in the British islands. They are very important to us and they are the core of the whole business. The Senator touched on a very important point that more can be done co-operatively and in the creation of a critical mass. For example, it may well be that certain parts of a product can be manufactured in the South at a cheaper unit cost than in the North and this should be taken into account and made use of. A friend of mine works for an American company which builds generating sets and it has 15 companies world-wide. They all have targets and they will buy components from the likes of South Korea because they are cheaper and they are installed in the units being built here. By working together and allowing for competition which I mentioned earlier, we can do more. The economy is what it is all about; we have to move on.

One of the Deputies asked about the rebalancing of the economy and this is vital for us and I presume it is vital for the South. Under our programme for government the economy is the first priority and rebalancing comes very close. Quite a large number of public sector jobs are being shed but the private sector must be developed and grown. We have another test coming up with the review of public administration which amounts to the downsizing of the number of local authorities, from 26 down to 11. This will result in a dividend but it will be difficult to implement and it must be done. However, as other members have said, we have to grow the private sector because it is crucial.

Ms Maria Ryan

I work in the manufacturing sector for Bombardier Aerospace. I reiterate Mr. Glyn Roberts' point about bodies such as InterTradeIreland being fit for purpose. We are the largest manufacturing employer in Northern Ireland and we have approximately 800 suppliers across the UK and Ireland. However, the vast majority of them are in Great Britain or in Northern Ireland. To be honest, we would love to have more suppliers from the Republic of Ireland. We have recently taken on a supplier from Galway - Aero Composites - and we developed a relationship with that company by means of a research and development programme. We would like to have more input from bodies such as InterTradeIreland to encourage those relationships between North and South.

Ms Gráinne Walsh

Deputy Seán Crowe referred to social clauses as being an innovative way of ensuring that local businesses are given access to larger contracts and this is particularly important in a small business economy. The growth of the social economy in Northern Ireland provides interesting opportunities for the third sector in particular to engage with service provision aspects of government. This is an interesting development in the North that I have not seen replicated necessarily here as much. This would be a case of learning from Northern Ireland.

In answer to Senator McAleese's question as to whether we need any more structures, many of the structures in place are working well and we just need to use those structures, such as the British-Irish Council, which is working on the roll-out of energy infrastructure across these islands. We have quite strong North-South structures and it is a case of branching out in the direction of east-west as well. I refer to the great work of the British-Irish Chamber of Commerce. To refer to the point made by Mr. Leslie Cree MLA, the UK is the largest market for both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. There is great work being done and we just need to do more of it.

Chairman

I invite Mr. Roberts to make a concluding remark.

Mr. Glyn Roberts

Northern Ireland has a number of big success stories and agrifood is one of them and it is also a very strong factor in this State. We need to develop our tourism brand and we can learn lessons from this State. More needs to be done to support the work of Tourism Ireland to ensure that tourists come to the North as well as to this State. On the question of Northern Ireland's place in the bigger picture, Northern Ireland can be the centre of so many different interlocking relationships. It is part of the UK, it is part of the island of Ireland and it is part of the European Union. It has fantastic links with the US and Canada. We have provided a number of US Presidents and Hillary Clinton has visited many times. Invest Northern Ireland is working hard in the US. If we can sell Northern Ireland as the centre of those interlocking relationships, there is potential. We need to raise our game and persuade the indigenous base to move out of its comfort zone and win new markets. I am optimistic and in the new members of the Northern Ireland Assembly and Business Trust I see new innovators, new entrepreneurs coming forward with new ideas. I know there is a lot of negativity because of the recession but recessions can bring out the very best in innovation and new thinking in business and we are starting to see this happening. I am very optimistic that we can grow our way out of the recession but it is a case of doing what we do best such as in the agrifood and tourism sectors. We are now able to attract film productions. The shipyard at one point employed 30,000 people and I refer to the fantastic new Titanic signature project. We are able to attract many of the big movie companies to film in the former shipyard in east Belfast and the film " Game of Thrones" was filmed there. These are the results of new thinking and new ideas. Northern Ireland is re-inventing itself and we need to re-profile and re-invent our economy.

Chairman

I thank Mr. Roberts. Again, he managed to get in a wee plug for The Titanic Experience in Belfast. Well done.

Ms Gráinne Walsh

One practical step the committee could take would be to visit the Titanic Signature Building in Belfast, which is well worth seeing. It is fantastic.

Deputy Frank Feighan

The Titanic was fine when it left Belfast.

Ms Gráinne Walsh

That is correct.

Mr. David McClarty, MLA

We will get the Deputy a place in the shallow end.

Chairman

I think a couple of Donegal men worked proactively on the Titanic project. I thank our guests, who have managed to give the committee a degree of focus. While there are elements of the Good Friday Agreement-Belfast Agreement which require to be implemented, be it the consultative forum, the bill of rights or the Irish language Act, a great deal of work has been done behind the scenes at the North-South Parliamentary Forum. I am confident that progress will be made on this matter in the coming period. That is a positive development.

We intend to bring representatives from Waterways Ireland before the committee. There are six bodies with which we should meet, including InterTradeIreland. The committee requires a degree of focus and the observations put forward by our guests will assist us in this regard. We need to work closer with everyone involved. Another outstanding issue is that which relates to the review of the North-South bodies. The old adage "How long is a piece of string?" applies in respect of North-South co-operation. We could work in many different areas in this regard but there is no doubt a level of focus is required. The model our guests suggested is one of best practice which, as Deputy Feighan pointed out, we in the South might consider adopting.

I thank everyone who contributed, including those in the audience. We will now go into private session to deal with a few housekeeping matters.

The joint committee went into private session at 1.05 p.m. and adjourned at 1.10 p.m. until noon on Thursday, 5 July 2012.