I would remind members that at the previous meeting it was decided to seek a formal meeting with the elected members of the European Parliament. The Committee have been circulated with correspondence which has taken place with the Ceann Comhairle concerning relationships with the elected members of the European Parliament. I invite views as to what arrangements the Committee would like to have made with regard to the proposed meeting with the elected members.
Relationship with Elected Members of the European Parliament.
I should like to join in the congratulations to the Chairman. Indeed, the Joint Committee is very fortunate to have a person of your calibre and commitment as the Chairman. The Committee is in the very happy position of having bid farewell to an excellent chairman in Deputy Mark Clinton and welcoming an at least equally good one in yourself. I look forward to the work of the Committee under your chairmanship. We will be encouraged to do the rather difficult behind-the-scenes jobs we have to do as well as drawing attention to the political realities of what is happening at European Community level.
The question of the relationship of the members of the European Parliament with the Committee is something which was the subject of discussion by the Committee before the direct elections and again at our meeting subsequent to them. We decided to have a meeting with members of the European Parliament and, secondly, to try to ensure that the services provided to the former delegates to the European Parliament by the secretariat of this Committee should continue. The letter dated June 1979 to the Ceann Comhairle, Deputy Joseph Brennan, from the Chairman, Deputy Mark Clinton, sets out the unanimous view of the Committee that we should continue to provide the memoranda from Departments and the brief to members of the European Parliament as we provided to the delegates of the European Parliament. It appears to be the view of the Ceann Comhairle that we are not in a legal position to do this and that we cannot provide any back-up service or any memoranda from Departments commenting on proposals that come to the Committee. It appears that members of the European Parliament will have to look uniquely to the European Parliament and whatever resources it provides in Dublin to equip its members. I regret this. There is a danger that the 15 Irish members of the European Parliament will be handicapped on the various committees on which they will work in the sessions of the Parliament and the work in the political groups by being unable quickly to substitute a way of acquiring information on the departmental view, or the view of the various sectors such as the trade union movement, or industry on a measure that is being considered by a sub-Committee of this Committee. I would like to know if this is the final position: that we are unable to provide briefing to the directly-elected members of the European Parliament, or have we some other fall-back position there; can we in fact continue to make this material available to them and to be helpful to them in the way that we were in the past? That is the first point.
Secondly, it would be premature for the Joint Committee to have very definite views about our relationship with the directly-elected members of the European Parliament until we have had a meeting with them. It would be much more helpful to have a meeting in the very near future, now that they have become accustomed to their own workload, the various committees they will be attending and the kinds of strains and stresses it is placing on them personally. They may have a much clearer view themselves of what kind of relationship they would like to have with the Joint Committee.
I do think that there is an important relationship to be worked out in the interests of ensuring that Ireland is well represented by our 15 members, that the Joint Committee is able to avail itself of the collective expertise and input of these directly-elected members of the European Parliament. Whether it is a formal relationship of membership of this Committee, or an informal relationship of meetings from time to time, or allowing a right of audience to directly-elected members who are not Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas, is something we should treat as of importance and as a priority, but we should have a meeting with the directly-elected members before we set out firm guidelines.
I am very worried about the other aspect, about this Committee not being able to continue to provide the kind of back-up facilities and servicing for the members of the European Parliament which was there in the past and which could be availed of.
Could I just intervene with a comment before anyone else speaks on this. There is possibly a distinction here to be noted. These newly-elected members are no longer delegates from the Houses of Parliament. We must recognise that fact and possible distinctions will have to be made in regard to it. While I would find myself in agreement with the national interest point of view expressed by Senator Robinson in terms of the usefulness that we might be able to provide to the elected members, there is the other point of the usefulness of our proceedings, the committee procedure and our behaviour as a Joint Committee of the Houses performing our duty in relation to the Executive. But it would seem to me that we are going to be assisted by their getting memoranda from us knowing what we know and can gather. In response to these memoranda they will be able if they wish to, and if it is so decided after a meeting with them, to be more helpful to us. All of our thinking may be coordinated. There seems sense in that. A letter has been prepared—which perhaps the secretariat might circulate—which it is suggested might be sent to the Ceann Comhairle in regard to this. While that is being circulated I can make the point that the terms of reference—quite apart from any question of secretarial assistance, as such—do entitle us, because we could not proceed at all otherwise, to express our views to anyone we choose, and issue memoranda to anyone we choose, whether they are elected members of the European Parliament or not. We do not want any unnecessary contest with the Ceann Comhairle, who is doing his duty. At the same time we want to do our duty as a Committee as well as we possibly can.
I wonder would the members of the Committee consider that in the light of perhaps making arrangements for a meeting before we do anything more about it, perhaps if you thought it right to send the suggested letter or something of that kind.
I might direct your attention particularly to one sentence. It is the third last sentence in the first page—reference to the Minister for Foreign Affairs stating in the Dáil, and the reference is given (Official Report Vol. 302, Col. 95), when the present Joint Committee was being set up, that it was the intention to continue to supply briefs to the delegates to the European Parliament although they were to be no longer members of the Committee. That is the Chair's suggestion to the meeting.
The Chairman seems to have covered the situation in this draft letter. There are three aspects involved. In regard to the secretarial facilities it is fairly clear that we would be restricted in making available secretarial facilities to non-members of this Committee. I feel the right course is suggested here, that we should let that drop, at least until we see what other developments there may be at European Parliament level.
There are two aspects in regard to meetings. That is very much within our own province: we invite people here. There is no reason why we should not invite members of the European Parliament on a regular basis if we want to. I would envisage that their work schedule would be such that it would be rare enough that they would be able to attend. If we want to have special meetings with them, that seems clearly an entitlement we should have.
In regard to the briefings I have no doubt that these would be of help to the members of the European Parliament. The documentation is often very comprehensive and must be of help to anybody interested in the problems dealt with in those briefs. If the Ceann Comhairle takes the view that we are not entitled to supply briefs to members of the European Parliament the Committee might consider another line of campaign in the future, notifying him that we will be circulating documentation to members of the European Parliament in the same way as we circulate it to many other bodies, seeking their views thereon. This would change the documentation, as far as they are concerned, technically from being briefings to being an invitation to them to express their views on the documentation. As I understand it this is done with many bodies. We could probably get over that all right. But the situation has been covered fairly well by the draft letter.
Is there any other view on this? Is this letter suitable and if so do the Committee wish to proceed with the intention of a previous meeting to try to arrange a meeting with the elected members? If we agreed to the letter we could see how many members of the Committee are available for a meeting with the newly-elected members of the European Parliament, two of whom, Mr. Seán Flanagan and Mr. T. J. Maher, are not Members of either House. We would wish them to feel that we wanted them to talk to us whenever possible. Could we clear this letter first or is there a feeling that it should be sent?
I propose that the letter be sent.
I second that proposal.
Draft letter agreed.
Can we bravely face into the possibility of meetings on a weekend, or something of that kind, if the secretariat can arrange them? I would welcome suggestions as to dates.
I presume we would need about three weeks to organise such a meeting.
Shall we find out the attitude of those members to the suggestion? If it is in order we will try to organise that meeting for a Saturday morning.
It may be that there are certain periods in the month when those members are not so heavily committed abroad.
I am sure the secretariat would try to arrange that meeting for mid-week.
We need not go any further with this without finding out the type of workload they have.
I am acutely sensitive as to how busy Members of the Dáil are and how difficult it would be for them to attend a meeting on a Saturday or a Sunday. We will try to work out something else but if we are forced on to a weekend I take it that the Committee agree?
If such a meeting is set up is it wise to have any discussion as to how we might suggest structures to those Members or should we enter such a meeting with an open mind?
It would be premature until we are more directly aware of all the responsibilities they have to discharge, what is pending for them and so on.
We accept that.