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JOINT COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT debate -
Wednesday, 24 Mar 2010

Overview of Efficiency, Performance and Objectives: Discussion with Irish Aviation Authority.

I welcome the Mr. Eamon Brennan, chief executive officer, Mr. Denis Daly, Mr. Kevin Humphreys, Mr. Donie Mooney and Mr. Paddy Kennedy from the Irish Aviation Authority. I propose that we hear a short presentation to be followed by questions and answers.

I draw the witnesses' attention to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege but the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are reminded of the parliamentary practice that members should not comment on, criticise of make charges against any person outside the House or any official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I invite Mr. Eamonn Brennan to make his presentation.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I will not delay the committee and will conclude my presentation in ten minutes. My colleagues are Mr. Denis Daly, chief financial officer, Mr. Donie Mooney, director of air traffic management and Mr. Paddy Kennedy, general manager of corporate affairs. I am the chief executive and Mr. Kevin Humphreys is director of safety regulation.

A copy of my brief presentation has been passed to members. It is an overview of our corporate governance, safety regulation, operations in air traffic management, a brief outline of our efficiency and business performance and our objectives for 2010 and beyond.

I will give members some background information. We were established in 1993 and commenced operations in 1994. We are a commercial State-sponsored body. We do not receive State financing from any source — loans, grants, guarantees, subventions or any support. We pay corporation tax like any other commercial semi-State body at 12.5%.

The essence of our mission is safety. We are the safety regulator for the civil aviation industry and we have a number of responsibilities. Our first and primary responsibility is the safety regulation of civil aviation. We also have responsibility for the air navigation services in Irish air space, the air traffic control at State airports and communications on the North Atlantic. We have 659 staff, 319 in the Shannon area, 156 in Dublin-Cork and at the safety regulation at head office. We have 659 in total, but full number of staff is approximately 700 when account is taken of trainees.

The most important and primary corporate objective of the IAA is safety. Nothing else matters. We comply with all international standards and our main function is to act at all times in the public interest.

Regarding the governance and the management of the authority, we have nine members, including a chairman appointed by the Minister for Transport, six non-executive directors, one executive and one staff director. We have board objectives and work plans, which are set every year, and various board committees covering finance, an audit committee, internal audit, personnel appointments, investment planning and such matters.

In terms of governance, the company complies with the revised combined code, the code of practice for State bodies. We also have an IA ethics policy. There is an approaches policy for board members, the Ethics in Public Office Act and a clear division of responsibilities between the board and management is documented.

The chief executive is responsible for all aspects of the day to day operation of the authority but unlike other companies because we are the safety regulator I have specific responsibility for safety regulation under the Irish Aviation Authority Act. The board must hear and consider my advice on operations and safety regulation, which I get from experts, and also I have a right to disagree with the board and to refer safety matters to the Minister, if required, but that has never happened in the history of the authority.

The first major area is safety regulation. With regard to the scope of our activity, we have safety oversight responsibility for 75 million passengers travelling on Irish fleet AOCs in 2009. This includes Aer Lingus, CityJet, Ryanair and all its operations in Europe, Aer Arann and other carriers. We also had safety responsibility for more than 150 million passengers using Irish domestic air space, oceanic airspace and so on in 2009. We have a considerable safety focus and responsibility from that perspective.

In safety regulation our key functions are to set and regulate the safety standards for aircraft, airworthiness, the operating standards of airlines such as Aer Lingus, Ryanair and so on, air navigation, service provision, aerodromes and air space. We are also responsible for the licensing and the medical standards of personnel, pilots, ATCOs, radio officers, engineers and so on and the licensing and certification of aerodrome air carriers, such as Ryanair, service providers and so on.

In terms of the standards adopted in the IAA, we do not have national standards as such. Everything in aviation is international. Therefore, the standards with which we comply are those of the European Union, Eurocontrol, the European Aviation Safety Agency, the ICAO, the JAA and the EUROCAE. Because of the nature of the industry these tend to be international with a much larger remit in terms of the EU than before. I do not propose to go into this in detail but it will give members an idea of the scope of the type of the legislation with which we deal. Uniquely, we also have the power to make statutory instruments.

In terms of independent oversight of the authority, we have independent oversight from EASA and the Joint Aviation Authorities, that is the aviation safety agency in Europe. We have audits on maintenance, operator certifications, simulators, personnel licensing, pilots, air operations such as operations of Aer Lingus and Ryanair and airworthiness which is the physical condition of aircraft for flight. We also have audits on our standards, which are called ESARRS from Eurocontrol. All these have been positive and perhaps the most significant audit we have ever had is currently ongoing. It is the ICAO international civil aviation audit which will be completed in 2010. This is the most significant audit we have seen during the past ten or 15 years and the results of it will be known later in the year.

We are central to the Irish aviation industry in which approximately 15,000 people are employed. In terms of aircraft on our register, we have €83 billion assets under management in terms of the leasing industry, some 3,400 aircraft and they pay €300 million annually in taxes. There are 1,000 high value jobs in the aircraft leasing industry in Ireland and we expect that to grow by 45% over the next three years. This is a significant growth area and one we are keen to promote.

To give members an idea of the size of the industry, there are three commercial State-owned airports in the country, Dublin, Shannon and Cork, six commercial private aerodromes and 19 private licensed aerodromes. In terms of airworthiness, we have 569 large public transport aircraft, which is about double the aircraft in the Netherlands, 515 small aircraft, 111 helicopters, 31 — part 145 — maintenance organisations for commercial aircraft and 22 — part M — for general aviation.

In terms of operations and personnel licensing, we have 3,664 commercial airline pilots, 18 commercial operators such as Aer Lingus, Ryanair and executive jet operations. In terms of air navigation, we licence 385 air traffic controllers. We are responsible for 451,000 sq km of air space.

The commercial operators in the country that we oversee are as follows: Ryanair is our largest with 231 aircraft, Aer Lingus has 45, Air Contractors have 36, CityJet has 25, Aer Arann has 10 and we have 192 heavy aircraft on lease in 22 foreign states, Europe, Asia and the Americas.

We also regulate general aviation, balloons, air shows, microlites, flying clubs, private clubs, training schools — basically everything to do with aviation — and engineers' examinations and such matters.

The other significant part of our business and the main revenue earner is operations-air traffic management. It is important to note that the air traffic management is part of an integrated European system. We are not a stand-alone system; we are integrated into the European system in terms of the flow management and flight management. We have a number of services. We have en route air traffic services in Irish air space — that is the overfliers. We provide ATC at the three State airports. We also provide communications on the North Atlantic and we are one of the cost-effective providers in Europe.

To give an indication using the map, members of the committee can see that 90% of all traffic transiting from Europe to the United States is handled via Irish air space — via the Shanwick or domestic air space. This slide gives a brief indication; it is a radar snapshot of a day. The middle of it shows the aircraft moving over and back on the Atlantic. It quietens off and then they all come back over. This flow happens every day. Some days during the summer in busy periods when things were better, we were handling up to 1,900 aircraft a day en route , over and back to the States.

Last year, our traffic for overflights was down 7.5%. Our terminal traffic was down 17% and our North Atlantic communications were down 7.6%. The trend has continued in the first two months of this year with en route traffic still down 2.2%. Dublin commercial is down another 17%, while Cork is down 10% and Shannon commercial is down 33%. The North Atlantic is down 2%. That is for January and February, on top of the big significant declines last year.

In terms of technology, we have one of the most advanced air traffic systems in Europe. We completed a new system in 2004. As members of the committee can appreciate, there are complex safety systems which require ongoing self-funded investment. We get no funds from the Exchequer. The company is funded entirely by the airlines. We will spend approximately €200 million on new systems over the next five years and we will be making a new air traffic management system live in 2011.

As regards recent initiatives, we had additional air space in 2005; we obtained 95,000 sq. km from the UK. It was the first significant air space transfer in Europe in nearly 20 years. We have a new agreement with Iceland for joint management of communications facilities on the North Atlantic. We are procuring our air traffic management system in a joint procurement with Sweden, Denmark and Austria. It is one of the most advanced in Europe.

We have also done a complete reorganisation of our safety regulation division after a report. We had the first functional air space block as part of the SES2, the Single European Sky with the UK, which we launched in August 2008. Last December, we launched what we call ENSURE, a free-flight zone to the west of Ireland, which will save airlines about €40 million over the next four years in fuel and CO2 emissions.

The operational challenge we have in this area is the Single European Sky. Europe is becoming much more involved. From 2012, we will have to meet European-wide safety, environmental, capacity and efficiency targets. The other issue is that of Dublin Airport. The capacity at Dublin Airport is fine at the moment, but during the boom times, before the dip, we were having problems with physical capacity and there was a need for a second runway. It is important to understand that the Dublin Airport operation is essentially a single runway one. At peak, we can move 48 to 51 aircraft per hour, but not on a sustained basis; that would be at a peak. In our view, there is a need in future for parallel runway operations, but we do not see that happening until 2014 to 2016. In that event, once the DAA tells us that, we will put up a new ATC tower for which we have recently received planning permission, costing €50 million.

The slide shows the north runway for Dublin at the top of the picture. That is the new north parallel runway they propose to put in.

In terms of business performance, I do not yet have the 2009 results. They will be published in April 2010 and are going to the board shortly. In 2008, we had revenue of €167 million, with €12 million profit after tax, so we were profitable. Our debt is quite limited, but the 2009 figures will show a reduction in costs, profit and revenue in line with the traffic drop, but we expect to be profitable.

As regards en route revenue, we make 63% of our income from people who overfly the State. The terminal — that is the airport staff — ATC accounts for 10% of our income, while North Atlantic communications is 11%. Safety regulation, which is independently funded and funds itself, is 14%. Exempt air traffic is 1% — that is generally military overflights that are paid to us by the State for overflight traffic.

To give a picture of revenues, we get 77% of our income internationally so we are only relying on the domestic economy for 23% of our income. Internationally, we are a generator of income to the country. It is a very small proportion domestically. Our largest customer, which a little bit in the wars at the moment, is British Airways.

Our future business performance challenge is basically the same as anybody else's, including the economic recession and declining traffic. In addition, our customers — the airline industry — who pay for all our costs are losing significant money.

This slide deals with what we are going to do for the next number of years. The single most important objective we have is the maintenance of a safety record. We need to stay efficient and cost-effective. Financial independence is very important. We are very conservative financially and we need to stay independent to ensure that we have the funds to invest in the systems we require in future.

We must also adapt the IAA to the conditions created by the Single European Sky and the EASA. We must exploit the new technology and strategic partnerships. In addition, the environment is an increasingly important area in aviation.

The final slide shows a historic landing of the new Airbus A380 at Shannon. Members can see Shannon Aerospace in the background. To give an idea of the size of it, there is a Ryanair 737-800 on the taxi run there at Shannon.

Let me declare an interest, as I am a former trainee air traffic controller.

We will fly much more safely in the knowledge that the Chairman did not get through that.

I started out in Cork Airport and then moved to Shannon under Jim Goulding who was the head man there. He has died since, the Lord have mercy on him.

The Chairman is showing his age.

It was a great experience. I left because, at the time, air traffic controllers were employed by the Department of Transport and one could not get involved in politics as a public servant.

The Chairman could have joined the union.

I have fond memories of working in the towers in Cork and Shannon. I would be on better money and shorter hours if I had stayed on in the business.

I compliment Mr. Brennan on his presentation. It is certainly a good news story and everyone involved is to be complimented. His own connection with the late Séamus Brennan cannot go unnoticed. He did a lot of work for the aviation industry.

What exactly happened in regard to the strike that took place and how was it solved? Was it necessary to disrupt the public in that way as a result of the industrial action and the disagreement between unions and management?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

Like all industrial action, it was regrettable. It is not our intention as a company ever to discommode the public, or anyone at all. It is important to realise, however, that like any management team these things happen. We are not unique in having air traffic control difficulties. We have had them in France and Italy over the past month. To answer the specific question, the simple reason for this was that the air traffic controllers' union, IMPACT, decided to withdraw co-operation with projects they were working on for the past number of years — some of them were for months and some for years. They basically instructed their members that, as of 1 January, they were not to engage in work on these projects. We were faced with a difficult situation. These are essential projects for the operation of the company.

Did the IAA not withdraw from the continuity service agreement first, in 2008?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

Can I finish my reply please?

Remarks should be addressed through the Chair.

Were the workers not reacting to the IAA's behaviour?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I am just trying to explain that. I will be happy to take the question in a moment, if I can.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I was trying to answer the specific question, but I will answer that one separately. As the dispute went on, we subsequently decided that we had no work for staff coming in. Ultimately, we were not in a position to accede to a 6% pay increase, which is what they were looking for. We should be in no doubt about it — this was not about four technology items. The Labour Court held against them on that. It was about looking for a 6% pay increase on top of some significant salaries that they were earning. It was that simple. As a management team, we were faced with the situation of dealing with this. I discussed the matter with the chief executives of all the major airlines, who are the customers of Dublin Airport, and informed them that they would be paying for this. I then asked whether they wanted us to pay the 6% or whether they felt we should take some other course. The easiest thing for us to do would have been to pay the 6%. If we had done that, I would not be sitting here being grilled by members. That is the reality of the situation. The difficulty is that these four actions were designed to put pressure on us to concede the 6% in the Labour Court.

Why did Mr. Brennan give himself and the members of his management team a 5% increase?

Mr. Brennan, without interruption.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I would be happy to answer that question. I thought the idea was that members would ask us questions.

I am asking questions.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I was trying to answer the Chairman's questions first. I will answer all the questions that members wish to pose. I have no difficulty in doing so.

Everyone involved in the industry, including the airlines, agreed that the position was untenable. We were faced with a situation where valued and professional people who occupy very highly paid jobs were using industrial muscle to force a 6% pay increase. We had decided at board level that we did not want to accede to what was being sought. If the 6% were granted, it would be immediately tacked on to the charges imposed on the airlines and would, therefore, be paid by, for example, Aer Lingus and CityJet employees. More people would lose their jobs if it had been granted. We took a responsible view and asked that the increase be deferred. The ante was upped to a considerable extent when the union issued an extremely strict directive that there should be no co-operation in respect of this matter. We had no option but to suspend the workers involved and this precipitated the short stoppage that occurred.

How was the problem solved?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

Ultimately, the matter was referred to the Labour Court which made a clear recommendation that each of the four technology points in respect of which the air traffic controllers allegedly went on strike involved normal, ongoing change. It found that these points did not involve exceptional change and that, therefore, payment was not required. It also found that approximately half of the 6% should be paid from 1 January 2011 and that a portion from 2009 would be paid into the pension fund.

Members will be aware that in addition to the matter under discussion, we have a pension deficit of €234 million. In recent times we have been asking staff to make a pension contribution. Staff of the IAA have a defined pension scheme which is based on a final salary scheme. The company pays a 30.5% contribution in respect of this but members of staff do not pay anything. Management has been taking a responsible course by trying to plug the hole in the pension scheme. In that regard, it has been encouraging everyone involved, including those involved at management level, staff, etc, to pay for their pensions.

I must ask Deputy Dooley to take the Chair for a short period.

Deputy Timmy Dooley took the Chair.

The stoppage at Dublin Airport proved disastrous for 80,000 passengers. It is incredible that the chief executive permitted that situation to develop. I put it to him that he and his management team decided not to renew the continuity of service agreement in 2008 and thereby scrapped the industrial process that had created an amiable industrial relations climate within the IAA.

During the period of the dispute, Mr. Brennan maintained in statements made to the media that air traffic controllers are paid in the region of €166,000 per annum when he knew the correct average figure to be approximately €80,000 per annum. He knew this to be the case and yet he issued some incredibly misleading statements in order to make the position for air traffic controllers intolerable. Is it not a fact that he awarded himself a 22% pay rise in 2008 and that the other executives received a 5% increase? What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and, therefore, if Mr. Brennan was really interested in cutting costs and adapting to the downturn in the aviation industry that has occurred during the recession, should these pay rises not have been foregone? Is it not a fact that the pay and conditions of over 50% of air traffic controllers are enshrined in an Act of the Oireachtas? How can this be reconciled with the approach taken to these ex-Civil Service workers in recent years?

Mr. Brennan showed members a slide of an extremely large aircraft. Will further investment in Irish airports be required in order to accommodate aeroplanes of this size?

Overflights are an obvious money-spinner. I thank Mr. Brennan for the helpful briefing material provided in this regard but I am obliged to ask why the IAA does not charge more in respect of overflights. Ireland has many disadvantages as a result of its location on the periphery of Europe. However, it enjoys advantages in the area of maritime affairs and in respect of its aerospace. Why does the IAA not increase its profits to an even greater degree by charging more for overflights?

Has a jobs embargo effectively been in place for a number of years within the organisation? What is its position in respect of suitable retirement ages? The IAA continually, and quite rightly, stresses the importance of safety. Virtually all transport jobs are safety-critical in nature. However, the jobs of those employed by the IAA and of pilots are probably the most safety-critical of all. What are the IAA's intentions in this regard. I understand that management is trying to increase the retirement age to 65. In other jurisdictions, people can retire from 50 years of age onwards, sometimes for obvious reasons.

I commend air traffic controllers on the number of hours they work and the superb job they do. There is a limit in respect of the number of hours pilots can work. Why should air traffic controllers be obliged to work 50 hours plus per week? Effectively, is the IAA not attempting to reduce their conditions? The reduction in salary was pushed through and this flies in the face of national aviation legislation.

Mr. Brennan stated that a major pension fund deficit was allowed to develop. I understand changes were made in the contracts of air traffic controllers who joined the IAA from 2008 onwards. I also understand that Mr. Brennan, as part of his remit, will be obliged to make a proposal to the Pensions Board in the near future. Questions have been asked as to why existing pensioners were not advised of the terms of the IAA's funding proposal. Former and current employees of the IAA have inquired as to whether it is the case that the performance of the trustees of the pension fund in recent years has been deplorable. We are aware that all pension funds have suffered reverses. In that context, the Committee of Public Accounts, of which I am also a member, has been dealing with those who operate the National Pension Reserve Fund. This is a key issue and is it not time that an audit was carried out into the performance of the trustees and the investment managers? The general employees of the IAA and the State need to know what is the exact position. This is particularly the case in view of the fact that IAA is a profitable organisation and has the capacity to make even further significant profits for the country.

Does Deputy O'Dowd wish to pose some questions? I do not know if there is anything left to cover, particularly in light of the extremely comprehensive queries put forward by Deputy Broughan.

There are many more matters to be covered. I was impressed by the presentation provided by Mr. Brennan. The IAA does great work, which is of major importance to the economy.

It is important that good industrial relations should exist. Where they do not exist, we must ensure that efforts are made to rectify the position. When the action took place at Dublin Airport, I was concerned that there should be a statutory cooling off period rather than a no-strike clause. In other words, a significant period would have to pass before labour could be withdrawn. The withdrawal of the services of air traffic controllers at the airport had a significant, immediate and adverse impact on the economy.

There are many questions which arise.

We teased out certain matters at our last meeting and I suggest that some of them might not be germane to this discussion.

I should have stated at the outset that it would be of assistance if members visited Dublin Airport to gain first-hand knowledge of the work done by air traffic controllers. If I give Mr. Brennan notice of the questions and he comes back to them later, I do not have a problem but——

We should proceed with the responses to the industrial relations issues and then we will come back to the other questions raised by members at the previous meeting.

That is fair enough. I spoke to Mr. Brennan about a number of questions, which I understand he will reply to today. Copies were given to the Minister but were not reached. There are other questions about procurement policy and so on.

We will get to them during another round of questions.

I thank Mr. Brennan and his colleagues for an excellent presentation. I refer to the pricing structure. I understand our prices are way below the UK and other European counterparts. Why is that so? It is not a free option. If people fly between the UK and America, they must pass over Ireland. I do not advocate a monopoly-type scenario but it is ridiculous that Ireland would charge British Airways or other airlines less to fly over Ireland when their home countries charge our airlines more for overflying them. What prices are charged by Ireland, the UK and other European countries? Why did the authority agree a cheaper price? What is the commercial advantage?

Mr. Brennan mentioned carbon emissions savings amounting to €40 million. How did that come about? Do all the airlines the authority serves avail of this scheme or is it just a proportion of them?

The pension fund deficit is €234 million. That is high for a staff of 650, even when taking into account the stock market collapse and so on. Is there another reason for this such as insufficient payments to the fund? Clearly, a 30% contribution is needed to make up the deficit. Will Mr. Brennan explain the history of how this deficit came about?

I thank Mr. Brennan for the presentation, which was very informative. Being from Clare, I am familiar with many of the people who work in the authority. I was taken by his acknowledgement that safety is the priority at all times. The safety record of the IAA speaks volumes about the management and staff of the organisation. Against that backdrop, the authority's image was tarnished by being drawn into publicity that neither staff nor management wanted. It was regrettable but it is not the committee's role to figure out the rights and wrongs of what happened, although it can be discussed generally.

There have been demands of the political system to provide for a no strike clause for staff working in essential services such as those employed by the IAA. The authority had a continuity service agreement, which was not renegotiated, and it would be helpful if Mr. Brennan could allude to this. Is there an opportunity to ensure such a service is available? Depending on who one talks to, there is a view that there has been a lack of consultation between management and staff or union representatives. Will he address that? The committee will have an opportunity at a later date to hear the other side of the argument from the unions.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I will try to cover all the questions and some of my colleagues will also contribute. I have written them down and if I miss one, it can be picked out.

With regard to the Civil Service terms and conditions under which staff transferred to the authority, the IAA Act 1993 provides for staff who transferred on vesting day, 1 January 1994, to enjoy no less favourable terms and conditions than those that exist in the Civil Service. That is the case. IAA staff are considerably better paid than those working in the Civil Service. The nub of this issue is the pension fund deficit. We require staff to make the exact same pension contribution as those in the public service. This requires legislation and we are discussing this as part of the Labour Court procedure but we have consulted the Department of Transport, which has indicated that if we cannot come to an agreement, it will legislate appropriately to allow us to levy a pension contribution because the conditions of those who transferred over are better now, not worse. I will ask the director of finance to deal with the pension fund and trustee issues.

Mr. Denis Daly

We have a significant pension deficit like many other pension funds in this country. Mercer, for example, which is the international pensions and investment advisor, reported last January on a survey of more than 200 multinational and indigenous companies operating in Ireland, which found that more than 90% of all defined pension benefit schemes in the State will not meet the required pension funding standard. All these funds will be required to submit pension plans to the Irish Pensions Board before the end of the year. The problem traverses the economy. It affects pension funds in the financial services sector and across all other industries and it is not unique to Ireland. Many of our airline customers, for example, in the UK, Europe and North America have suffered the same problem with pension schemes and many have closed their schemes.

Our fund has a deficit of €234 million at the date of the last actuarial valuation, 1 January 2009. It is a significant deficit and it reflects the meltdown in global equity markets that occurred, particularly in 2008. Markets fell that year by approximately 35% and investment returns were lower as a result. It also reflects a further significant issue, which addresses the question about what is so special about our fund. As Mr. Brennan mentioned, we enjoy a generous pension plan, which we inherited from the Civil Service when people transferred from the Department of Transport. Members get full pension on retirement if they work for 40 years. Pension liabilities have grown significantly over the past number of years due to a number of factors, chief among which is the increase in mortality rates. Thankfully, we are living longer. Second, the retirement age for the IAA fund is 60. Third, the rate of increase in pension payment is linked to salary inflation in the authority and over the past number of years the rate of increase has been higher than expected in the context of the pension fund. Fourth, staff do not make a pension contribution.

It is a big problem but we have a solution. There is a plan to solve the problem. We have been advised by Mercer that we can sort out this deficit in a seven to ten-year period provided we introduce a staff contribution equivalent to what applies in the Civil Service, increase the retirement age from 60 to 65 and limit the increase in pensions to the consumer price index or 3%, whichever is lower. We have closed the old defined benefit scheme to new entrants. From 1 April 2008, new entrants join a defined benefit scheme with a staff contribution rate of 5%, retirement at 65 and pension increases limited to CPI increases or 3%, whichever is lower. In other words, we are doing what other pension schemes in Ireland are doing, including the State. We are seeking staff contributions, increasing the retirement age and limiting the size of pension increases.

Deputy Paul Connaughton took the Chair.

I know a report is due next month, but has there been any recovery in the pension fund over the past six to nine months? There was such a recovery in the National Pensions Reserve Fund, which is one of the reasons we are still able to fund some of our bankrupt banks. Is it not clear that to address the pension fund deficit, the IAA needs full consultation and agreement with its staff? Does Mr. Brennan not agree it can only be done in that manner?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I fully agree with the Deputy and that is what we are engaged in currently. As part of the settlement in the dispute to which the Deputy referred, the Labour Court made a recommendation which had two elements. The first element dealt with pay, time to be paid, etc., and the rejection of the technology. The second essential element provided that within a three-month period staff, unions and management would engage with a view to solving the pension difficulty. We have been trying, somewhat unsuccessfully, to engage with the unions over recent weeks to do that. We have brought the matter to the attention of the Labour Relations Commission and referred the issue to it to try to resolve it.

The problem is simple and this brings me to the Deputy's second question which asked whether we had to send something to the Pensions Board. We must make a submission on the deficit by the end of the year. Effectively, this means we must have some plan prepared by September. The genesis of the plan must be something that will restore the fund to the black over a reasonable period of time. The plan my colleague outlined relates to the staff contribution, the CPI issue and the extension of retirement ages by an average of a year. That will bring the fund back into the black within a five to seven-year period. After that happens, we can take another look at the procedures. It is important we do not just ignore the issue.

We have made the situation very clear to our shareholders. We are a State company and as management we must do the right thing from the fiduciary point of view for the company and try to do the best we can. The current situation is that the company makes a pension contribution of 30.5% and the staff make no contribution, myself included. I want to ensure we reverse that situation so that we all make the same contribution as everybody else in the public service. That is what we are trying to do. There is nothing untoward about what we are trying to do. We are just trying to solve the problem. We have a plan that will solve it within seven years. That is the best the management team can do and we believe our plan will solve the problem.

Has management reviewed the disastrous performance of the fund and has it made any changes to it?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

We have reviewed its performance, taking into consideration the equities market and the situation that has pertained over the past two years. We have a public service pension scheme, but unlike the Government, we cannot do "pay as you go" and must fund the full fund. Therefore, to fund someone who gets a pension of €60,000 or €70,000, we must have a fund of approximately €1.2 million or €1.3 million. We have reviewed the situation and have changed some of the investment managers. The trustees have reviewed the scheme and the board considers it regularly. It is not something we just look at once in a blue moon. At the next board meeting in April, all the investment managers will be called in and examined. We are trying to get them perform to a benchmark. I have examined 25 pension funds over the past month and they are all in the same situation. The solution to the problem is not to ignore the situation, but to come together as a team and sort out the issue. I am happy to work closely with staff, the staff representatives, pensioners and all involved to reach a solution.

The Deputy asked about current pensioners and the 3% CPI element. There is no proposal for any pay increase this year, so there is no immediate effect on pensioners. We are trying to come to an agreement on the scheme. Then, when the scheme is sorted out — hopefully by mid-year — I will be happy to deal with the pensioners' association. I understand how they feel. They retired on a defined benefit scheme, but now any increases are being limited to 3%. The problem is that if we do not impose a limit, some five or six years after people have retired, they will be paid a higher pension than what they were earning while working. We are trying to establish pensions of manageable proportions. The same is happening throughout the industry among all airlines and air navigation service providers. Our counterparts in the United Kingdom, for example, recently made major reforms to their pension scheme. We are trying to do the prudent thing and keep pensioners informed.

I accept and am aware that pensioners must be handled carefully. I expect we will have good consultation with our pensioners in the future. We have received letters from them and will consult them once we have agreed a new pension scheme. Current pensioners will suffer the knock-on effects of this. There is no proposal for pensioners currently and nothing has happened to the provisions for them. Nothing is being taken off them. All we need to do currently is solve the funding problem through the three elements the director of finance outlined to the committee.

What about my other questions?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

The next question was whether there was a recruitment embargo. There is no embargo on recruitment. In the past year we recruited trainee air traffic controllers and will probably do the same again this year. We will have to take into consideration the fact traffic is down about 25% or 30%, but as matters stand, it looks like we will recruit this year. Last week we advertised for engineers in the public press and we also need to recruit some other staff. I will ask my colleague, the director of safety regulation, to deal with the issue of pilots' working hours.

Mr. Kevin Humphries

All pilots flying in commercial operations are governed by joint European requirements, which are administered by the European Aviation Safety Agency. The limits are specific: 900 hours per year and 13 hours a day with a rest period defined before duty is assumed. The same applies to all operators in the European area. It is straightforward.

Air traffic controllers seem to work double those hours.

Mr. Kevin Humphries

Air traffic controllers are not governed by the same system. That is an industrial relations matter.

Are there safety issues? Safety is critical. If a controller is managing 12 planes over twice the normal length of time, is there a safety issue? If a controller is working additional hours over a longer period, is that not a dodgy area with regard to safety?

Mr. Kevin Humphries

No, that has to do with the rostering of air traffic controllers. Perhaps it would be more appropriate for the director of air traffic services to handle that question.

Mr. Donie Mooney

There are no plans currently to increase working hours of air traffic controllers and their hours are strictly negotiated with the unions. In the Shannon environment, because of the way traffic presents, traffic in the upper region does not always behave like the core area of Europe. Therefore, we must constantly examine how we assign staff to meet the traffic flows eastbound at night and westbound during the day. In the summer we have to consider the mix of the north-south holiday traffic. Serious negotiation takes place on this every year because we adjust the roster every year. We have established a principle of crewing to workload. Controllers make hard bargains in the Labour Court. The current system is that for every two hours that air traffic controllers work, they get a break of half an hour. This is only right because we cannot overload them. There are no plans currently, and there will not be while I am director of operations, to increase the working hours of air traffic controllers. The work is managed properly and breaks are administered. We are governed by the working time Act also and do not breach it. I am satisfied there is no safety issue with regard to the working hours of air traffic controllers.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

The next question concerned charging more in recovering costs. The way the IAA charges is internationally determined by Eurocontrol. We do not determine the charges or make them up and pass them out. That is not how it works. An international treaty that governs the recovery of costs affects Ireland, the United Kingdom and every other country in Europe. There are two important things to be noted. The Irish Aviation Authority is a monopoly service provider. I am uncomfortable with the inference that monopoly service providers charge the maximum fees possible. We do not do that in a number of instances. If our customers are suffering, it is not right to lash more costs on top of them and choke the industry further. That does not work in a downturn or in a recession. That is the first thing.

We are strictly governed. We make a submission to Eurocontrol every year. It is dealt with by Eurocontrol's central route charges committee. It is determined on that basis. One might ask why our charges are lower than those in the UK. We need to discuss the issue. Our charges are based on the size and weight of aircraft. Relative to size, our asset base is basically the same, in terms of centres, etc., as that in the UK. However, we have much more airspace relative to our size. It depends on the amount of time they spend in our system. Irish airspace extends approximately 256 miles off the west coast. It is pure water. The amount of time they spend in our system is much higher. That is why our unit cost is much lower. It is a question of a simple physical sum.

Our unit costs have risen over recent years. There is a fundamental policy of trying to keep the unit costs competitive and low. We want to keep jobs in Ireland. As part of the second Single European Sky package, there will be an attempt to consolidate the British, French, German and Spanish operations. The EU is trying to move all the small guys into that single bloc. We are trying to make sure we stay competitive and efficient.

I will give two basic answers to the questions I was asked. It is determined by Eurocontrol. It is a function of our geographical size, our costs and our airspace. We would have no justification for charging what the UK charges. Eurocontrol would not allow us to do so. It is good that such checks and balances exist. We have had our increases. One's rate is driven up by the amount of investment one makes in the system. I hope that is helpful.

I will take a number of Deputy O'Dowd's questions, including that about my salary. I hope that is okay. While the authority's accounts are not out yet, I am happy to let the committee know they will show my 2009 salary was €232,000. I took a voluntary 10% pay cut in 2009. I will continue that in 2010.

Mr. Brennan is paid more than the Taoiseach.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

Yes, okay. I do not have a driver. I am trying to answer the questions that were asked. I have a company car. I get a pension contribution as well. Details of such matters are published on our website, www.iaa.ie. They are open to the public. My 2009 figures will be there from 30 April next. All the previous ones are there.

Did Mr. Brennan get a big increase in 2008?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

No, it was in 2007. I do not have the exact details to hand. In 2007, the Government carried out an independent review of the commercial semi-State sector. I was granted a pay increase of approximately 20%. It was my first pay increase in five years. I handed 10% of it back last year. I was the only person in the organisation to take a pay cut.

On that issue, I understand that a pay increase was awarded to the commercial semi-State sector in 2008. The pay cut in some organisations took place immediately after the pay rise. I do not know if that happened in the Irish Aviation Authority. In the case of a number of other commercial semi-State organisations, staff were paid a certain rate in August 2008, got a pay increase in September 2008 and took their pay cut after that. That was not a real pay cut of 10%, in effect. I do not suggest Mr. Brennan did that.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I waived the last one.

That was the one Mr. Brennan waived.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I took a 10% pay cut.

That is good to hear.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

They are not all in sequence. They come out. I normally get whatever the staff get under the national agreements.

A pay increase of 2% or 3% was applied in August 2008.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I do not think I took that. I can check and get back to the committee.

That is fine. I have no problem with that.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I was also asked whether further investment in airports will be needed.

I would like to make a final point about pay. Did Mr. Brennan mislead the public and media in his comments on average pay?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

No. I was coming to that. No, I did not do that. I can tell the committee exactly what was read out. I was asked to state the maximum pay an air traffic controller gets. I said that the salary at the maximum of the scale is €124,249 and that when the pension contribution is added to that, which we do for everybody, the relevant figure increases to €158,517. I mentioned that air traffic controllers are rostered to work 34.75 hours a week, or 182 days a year. I said that they get 137 rest days, 36 holidays and ten public holidays. That is exactly what I handed out.

Why did Mr. Brennan not give the average as well?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

We were asked about the maximum end of the scale. I would say that the average would be between €90,000 and €100,000. We are a well-paid organisation.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

It links to the pension problem. The pension fund is in such dire straits because the salaries are so high. If someone is on €124,000, he or she will get a pension of almost €70,000.

When we travel in aeroplanes, we hope Mr. Brennan's colleagues are doing their stuff. That is the bottom line.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

They do. To be fair, I do not begrudge air traffic controllers or pilots their earnings. There has been a great deal of discussion on air traffic controllers. It is obvious that they have lobbied very hard. Pilots, engineers, engine specialists, avionics people and landing gear specialists also work for us and are critical to the safety of the system. If management officials decide not to pay the 6% pay increase to their staff, but instead to try to keep them on a certain pay line, I would not like the committee to consider it appropriate to haul them in to justify their personal pay and conditions, including company cars and bonuses, etc. That would be a disincentive to management.

No. To be fair, there have been questions in the Dáil on all semi-State companies.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I accept that.

Deputy O'Dowd asked a question about the matter earlier today. It has been an ongoing thing. The public is interested in the salaries paid to everybody, including Members of the Oireachtas.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

That is fair enough. Before I try to respond to Deputy O'Dowd's questions, I will answer the question that was asked about investment in aeroplanes and airports. The A380, which is a very heavy aircraft, can land at Shannon Airport. When the new runway is built at Dublin Airport, it will be wider and that will make it safer. More investment is required on the terminal side, including infrastructure for unloading aircraft. Many airbridges will be needed.

Did the DAA consult the IAA on the runway?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

Yes.

Deputy Kennedy will agree that the runway was the subject of a great deal of discussion at local level. To find, having gone through that process, that the infrastructure has not been put in place——

If we put it in place at Shannon Airport, we will be okay.

It has to be done in Shannon as well.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I will answer the question directly. We regulate the DAA's safety standards. It takes our advice on technical issues, such as runway lengths, overruns and instrument landing systems. It took our advice to widen the new runway to enable it to take the A380. Any decision on whether to put in place a new stand to accommodate the A380 is a commercial one. I would like to think that will be done. I think we should be building the second runway now, at a time when it is cheap to build and there will be less environmental trouble. If we build it now, when it costs less, it will be there for the upturn. It would be a smart thing to do. We are lobbying the DAA, which is under pressure. I have discussed the matter with the chief executive of the DAA. The line we are taking is that we would like a parallel runway to be developed. Dublin is one of the few capital cities in Europe that does not have such a facility. The minute the squeeze comes on again, everyone will go nuts about the lack of capacity. Now is the time to build capacity because it is cheap to do so. That is another issue.

Does Mr. Brennan disagree with the DAA in this regard?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I do. I would prefer it to pursue this development.

I want to deal with some of Deputy O'Dowd's questions. A number of former senior managers at the Irish Aviation Authority who took early retirement are still drawing full salaries. The Deputy asked whether such salaries are drawn from the company's working capital or from the company's pension fund. I will provide a written reply after the meeting. The IAA closed its early retirement scheme to all staff, including managers, in 2005. Since then, nobody has been allowed to avail of unscheduled or special early retirement. I assume the Deputy was referring to a senior manager who retired at the end of 2009 on standard superannuation benefits and is employed on a temporary part-time contract on 50% of his former salary until his replacement is in place, which will happen shortly. The payment in question is made through the authority's payroll and has no impact on the authority's pension fund.

Deputy O'Dowd also asked the Minister his views on a recent senior appointment to the Irish Aviation Authority, of which he supplied details, although the appointed person did not have the prerequisite educational qualifications. The successful candidate has the knowledge, experience and educational qualifications for the job. The position was publicly advertised and an international expert from another administration assessed the candidates. The successful candidate was deemed to be the most suitable of those interviewed for the position. The advertisement stated the ideal candidate should have an appropriate third level qualification. I have no doubt the person selected, Mr. Donie Mooney, director of operations, was the best person for the job. I do not know what the Deputy's question is about.

Deputy O'Dowd also asked the Minister for Transport if he was satisfied that the appropriate procedures were adopted in the recent appointments to a number of senior positions, of which he supplied details, his views on the fact that two of these appointees were failed external candidates without any apparent prior advertising and when the interviews for the positions had been held. Two positions were filled at general manager level. Both candidates had applied in the public competition for the senior position of director and were identified as eminently suitable for consideration for other senior management appointments in the authority relevant to their experience. They were subsequently interviewed on a number of occasions by members of the same interview panel. Having regard to their knowledge, experience and educational qualifications, they were deemed eminently suitable for the positions to which they were appointed.

To provide some additional background information, both candidates came from airline backgrounds. One was a senior manager with Ryanair, while the other was a senior manager with Aer Lingus. We sought to bring new blood into the authority and both appointments were approved by the board.

To clarify the issue, while they had applied for a previously publicly advertised position——

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

They applied for the director's job. When we interviewed them, we found they were both exceptional candidates and I secured the board's approval.

I want to address this issue at a slightly slower pace. A job of director was advertised, for which the two individuals in question applied in the proper manner, although neither of them was appointed to the advertised position. They were subsequently appointed to other positions in the organisation, for which they were deemed to have proper competence on all counts. Were these positions advertised?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

No, the two positions were not advertised.

I want to settle this matter. Individuals who wanted these jobs were dissatisfied that they did not have an opportunity to apply for them. Is that not the case?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I accept that.

While I am not questioning the integrity of the individuals appointed to the positions in question or the people who interviewed them, the process was odd. A person who wanted to work for the Irish Aviation Authority and would have loved one of the two jobs in question did not have a chance to apply for them.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I take the Deputy's point. What we were faced with was that we had two exceptional candidates and we——

Why not advertise the positions?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

We had two excellent candidates. We decided that we would use them to fill the general manager positions. We had a difficulty persuading them to accept the positions because they had originally applied for the director position. We were trying to bring new blood into the organisation from the outside and decided to appoint the two individuals from the same competition after proper interviews. We also secured the approval of the board for the process.

Normally in a case of this nature — it certainly occurred in the past — an advertisement will state subsequent positions in the organisation may be filled as a result of the advertised competition. In other words, in the case before us, a person could have applied for the director position on the basis that he or she may have a chance of securing another position subsequently. That opportunity did not arise for anyone else.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

Correct.

People believe it is a serious matter that they did not have an opportunity to apply for a job for which they believed they were qualified. The process adopted excluded them from applying for the jobs.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I accept the Deputy's point. We were trying to bring new people into the organisation.

I do not have a problem with that, provided they are the best people.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

We went to the board with a pool of people.

I am not talking about the board.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I understand the Deputy's point.

I ask Mr. Brennan to forget about the board and consider the fact that, as a State body, the Irish Aviation Authority must operate with transparency and accountability. I have set out an idea for an advertisement inviting people to apply for a job. In stating the organisation wants new blood, is it implicit that no one in it is deemed to be——

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

No.

A judgment is made in that decision——

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

Yes, there is a judgment.

——as to whether it is fair to do that to everyone else, notwithstanding the fine candidates the Irish Aviation Authority had interviewed previously.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

It is a rare occasion that we would adopt this approach.

Yes, but it was adopted.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

We were faced with two very exceptional candidates. I am satisfied that we achieved the best outcome. All the necessary approvals were secured.

I will stop Mr. Brennan again. I am not questioning the integrity or calibre of the individuals in question. Surely if an open competition had been held, these exceptionally capable individuals, which I have no doubt they are, would have come through the process.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

We took the view that the process we had adopted had been reasonably fair.

How was it fair if no one could apply for the jobs?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

From the company's perspective, we recruited two excellent managers whom we would not otherwise have recruited because they probably would not have applied for the general manager positions.

The Irish Aviation Authority does not know that because it did not advertise the positions.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

The view we took was that recruiting them on the basis of the previous competition was an effective, efficient and good approach. That view was supported by the board.

I am not interested in what the board thought but in whether others had an opportunity to apply for the positions. They did not have such an opportunity.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I appreciate that the positions were not publicly advertised. It is within our procedures, if sanctioned by the board. That is the reason I referred to the board.

I am not interested in that end of it. I am only interested in the transparency of the application process. Again, I will slow down this discussion to ensure clarity. People are aggrieved that they could not apply for these positions because they believed they were qualified. If the Irish Aviation Authority had confidence in the individuals it subsequently recruited, a public advertisement would probably have achieved the same result, while also affording those who wished to apply for the jobs an opportunity to do so. People are entitled to have career prospects and to move up the line in their organisation or move to an organisation from elsewhere. That is the criticism which Mr. Brennan must accept.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

While I do not fully share the Deputy's view, I accept his point. Will I move on to the next point?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I will ask the director of operations to address the issue of the retirement age of air traffic controllers. The question asked was whether the Minister for Transport's attention had been drawn to the fact that the Irish Aviation Authority was attempting to impose a mandatory increase in the retirement age of air traffic controllers from 60 to 65 years, despite the fact the policy of the International Federation of Air Traffic Controllers — the union of air traffic controllers — was that air traffic controllers should be eligible for retirement from the age of 50 years on the basis of the unique and demanding constraints on the individual controller.

Mr. Donie Mooney

This proposal arose from the problems we were experiencing with the pension fund and the three strands adopted to try to address the issue. In considering the possibility of gradually increasing the age of retirement from either the completion of 40 years of service or 60 years of age to 61 years, 62 years and ultimately 65 years, I am satisfied that after the age of 40 years air traffic controllers — I do not speak theoretically as I was one — must undergo stringent annual medical and competency testing. I do not see a problem with air traffic controllers continuing to work until 65 years or even longer, although we are not proposing that they do so, provided they pass the medical and competency tests. Once the pension business is back under review, we will revisit the issue. In terms of safety, I do not have an issue with air traffic controllers working until 65 years of age, as they must continue to meet a medical and competency requirement.

Air traffic controllers have an expectation that they will be able to retire when they reach 60 years of age.

Mr. Eamon Brennan

The idea is that somebody aged between 50 and 60 would go on to 61.

The point is that the person would have a reasonable expectation to retire, having been in the service, but now the person has to continue. I accept the point made that if the person wants to continue until 70 and if he or she is competent, then there is no reason not to allow for that. Mr. Brennan is saying this is being done because the circumstances of the pension fund mean that it is needed to pay for itself and have the benefits accrue to other people.

Mr. Eamon Brennan

I was asked whether the Minister for Transport is satisfied that the procurement process for the refurbishment of the IAA head office in Dublin was undertaken according to the established guidelines, and the details of the procedures that were followed. The correct procedures were followed and I will ask my procurement manager to provide an answer.

Mr. Paddy Kennedy

At the time we did the deal, the landlord of the building provided a substantial fit-out allowance as a component of the leasing package to fund all the fit-out costs, including furniture, fittings, floor covers and so on. The majority of the procurement for the fit-out is conducted by the landlord company, because it is very much playing a part in finishing the building. The manner in which that is being done is fully compliant with national and European regulations and guidelines. We went through a public procurement process for procurement of the furniture in full compliance with EU rules. All companies entering the process were set contract award criteria and evaluated to these criteria. The criteria were brought to the attention of all tenderers as part of the tender invitation package.

In every EU procurement process, cost is always one criteron. There are others, such as the ability of the company to meet the specified requirements, quality, compliance with contractual terms and conditions and so on. Anything we procure at the IAA, whether it is ATM software or hardware, technology services and so on, all are subject to a rigorous set of criteria and the EU procurement rules provide for this. The criteria that applied to the furniture were as rigorous as the criteria that applied to any other IAA purchase. The company awarded this contract following the procurement process was the company that best met all criteria. The contract represents the best value for money, having met all our tender requirements.

The EU public procurement process that we used was independently audited from a regulatory compliance view and was found to be in compliance. We believe that the process delivered the correct decision.

What was the price of the successful tender?

Mr. Paddy Kennedy

The details of individual tenders are commercially sensitive and confidential. We cannot discuss them, nor can we discuss material which might lead to the disclosure of any commercially sensitive or confidential information. I can give the Deputy the order of the tenders. They ranged from €352,000 to €490,000.

That is fair enough. I believe that the lowest tender and the second lowest tender were at least €100,000 less than the successful tender. Is it unreasonable to say that if the IAA was looking for value for money, it would have saved €100,000 by going for the company that tendered the lowest amount for the job?

Mr. Paddy Kennedy

If we were to go on cost alone, that would be case.

We are looking at costs. Mr. Kennedy was saying that the key issue was to meet the cost requirements and to give the best value for money.

Mr. Paddy Kennedy

I said that we always have several criteria, and that cost is only one of them.

It is only one, but it is nevertheless a very significant one.

Mr. Paddy Kennedy

In this particular case, it was worth 40% of the points awarded.

Why was it not worth 100% if it met all the other criteria? I would have thought if there are criteria for furniture which included specification and design, there would be no question but that all companies would meet these criteria before submitting the bid.

I understand that the companies that submitted the lowest tenders were Irish manufacturers, whereas the successful tenderer does not manufacture at all in this country and employs nobody here. Is that fair?

Mr. Paddy Kennedy

I am not disputing what the Deputy is saying about certain companies. I am saying that we operate the EU public procurement process and that is based on certain criteria. The cost is one such criterion, but the ability to meet the specified requirements has to be demonstrated.

But there was no demonstration——

Mr. Paddy Kennedy

We cannot just assume that it meets the criteria. It has to be demonstrated in the documentation produced.

The companies concerned offered to demonstrate the product.

Mr. Paddy Kennedy

Very specific instructions were issued with the tender invitation documentation. The authority had a meeting with the tenderers in advance and they were instructed that it was absolutely necessary to demonstrate compliance with all of the criteria. They were obliged to do that and they were marked on the basis of their demonstration of that compliance.

It seems to me that the marking system was skewered against the most competitive tenderer, which is a local Irish manufacturer and whose tender was €100,000 cheaper for a contract for €400,000. I do not doubt that there was a marking scheme but it does not make sense to me. A native Irish manufacturer cannot get a contract through public procurement, yet another manufacturer can do so with a bid that is 30% higher.

Mr. Paddy Kennedy

The companies that get public service contracts are those that demonstrate that they meet all the criteria as laid down in the EU procurement rules.

Can I get a copy of the marking scheme? I do not want to know the different company names, but I can look at the weighing for each bid.

Mr. Paddy Kennedy

The obligation on us to divulge the marking scheme has already been honoured, and we are obliged to give the marking scheme to each tenderer——

Can I get a copy of it?

Mr. Paddy Kennedy

We can give the Deputy a copy the evaluation criteria and the markings.

Fine. Cost was not a major factor——

Mr. Paddy Kennedy

No, cost was the single largest criterion at 40%.

If I am buying a car, cost is 100%. If I am buying furniture for my house, I will say that——

Would the Deputy always buy the cheapest car?

No, I would not necessarily do that. I would buy the best car, but these cars all meet the same criteria.

Mr. Paddy Kennedy

That is exactly what we did. We bought the best furniture.

The furniture was of the same standard, specification and design.

Mr. Paddy Kennedy

Those that did not get the particular contract did not demonstrate that the furniture was the same. They were obliged to do that under the public procurement rules, but they did not do so and because of that, we were unable to award the contract to them. It was as simple as that.

That is as clear as mud. I am very unhappy with this. I do not question Mr. Kennedy's integrity, but I question the fairness of a system that excludes Irish manufacture and tender price from its marking scheme.

Mr. Paddy Kennedy

We did not exclude them. That is not the case.

I am very disappointed by what happened.

The question has been asked and answered, so I would like Mr. Brennan to answer the next question.

Mr. Eamon Brennan

Deputy O'Dowd wants to know if we will report on the contract between Met Éireann and the IAA, whether we can access it for a lower fee, and if we can give assurances that the contract is not an example of cross-subsidisation between State agencies. I can give the Deputy a written copy of this. Under the Chicago convention, which is the——

That will be helpful. I acknowledge, in fairness, that these questions were submitted for written answer. I have one more question. It is a simple but interesting question and I hope Mr. Brennan can answer it. In regard to overflights, who recommends whether an aeroplane should not be allowed to fly into State airspace or to land here? Does the aviation authority deal with this issue?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

Our airspace is accessible to all civil public transport operators. However, military aircraft carrying munitions of war require the prior permission of the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. That permission would be communicated to us and we would accept the flight plan on that basis.

Does it ever happen that an aircraft which has not received the necessary documentation proceeds to fly over Ireland?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I am not aware that it has happened; there generally seems to be compliance in these matters. We do not have the ability to intercept such an aircraft.

I understand some aircraft have been refused permission to fly over Irish airspace.

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

Yes, the Department of Foreign Affairs has refused permission in certain instances, in which case the aircraft is rerouted around our airspace, either to the south towards French airspace or to the north into United Kingdom airspace.

Does the IAA or any other body keep statistics on such occurrences?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

The Department of Foreign Affairs would have those statistics.

I thank the delegates for their detailed answers.

There were a number of other questions for the delegates to answer.

Deputy Dooley is as important as anybody else but we are terribly stuck for time.

I can get the replies to my questions in writing, but several other issues were raised apart from the industrial relations element. I do not want to take up the committee's time but I would like a response on microlight aircraft. We have been in communication with the delegates on that matter. I would also like the delegates to comment on the issue of seaplanes on lakes and so on, but if the Vice Chairman is caught on time I will follow that up myself.

I am pressed for time in that the next group is waiting. It is not that these topics are not important. Does Mr. Brennan wish to give a brief response on either of those topics?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

I will ask Mr. Humphries to deal briefly with the issue of microlight aircraft.

I ask the delegates to comment on the continuity of service agreement if possible, but if they wish to come back with written answers that is fine. I recognise that we are over time and there are other delegates waiting.

We would appreciate if Mr. Humphries would respond very briefly.

Mr. Kevin Humphries

In regard to microlight aircraft, it is a question of whether we are prepared to grant them a lesser licence than is currently the case. We have had seven meetings over the last 13 months or so with members of the National Microlight Association of Ireland. They want us to examine a reduction in the requirements for pilots to fly these aircraft. We distributed a document to members of the committee to show the types of aircraft we are talking about, which vary from a flying wing to a very sophisticated aeroplane that would be a higher performer than the conventional Cessna or Piper models that are generally accepted as private aircraft. We hope to be able to give some reduction in the requirement but we are not prepared to go to the level that exists, for example, in the United Kingdom, which is 15 hours' basic training before going solo. We could not accept that because, in reality, nobody achieves it; it normally takes at least what we prescribe to get to the qualified stage.

Will the delegates send in any other information they have on this subject to the clerk?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

Yes.

Just before the delegates leave, can they say anything about the no strike clause and the continuity of service agreement?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

The continuity of service agreement with the staff expired in 2008. We are happy to renew it but there has not been significant engagement. The problem is that staff have refused to renew it on the basis that the grievance procedure should apply to student air traffic controllers. The company cannot see how somebody who is coming in and being trained can be part of the continuity of service agreement when they are essentially apprentices in the organisation. That matter has gone to the Labour Relations Commission and we hope it will be resolved. Such a resolution would be a better outcome than a no strike clause. However, all the airlines, IBEC, the Irish Exporters Association and virtually everybody else who has been in contact with us are all seeking a no strike clause. They are of the view that it is the correct way to go.

There was an issue about decentralisation in the past. Will Mr. Brennan update us on that?

Mr. Eamonn Brennan

Some 80% of our staff are currently decentralised, with 382 located in Shannon, 156 in Dublin Airport and 29 in Cork. In November 2008, the Department of Transport informed us that the decentralisation plans were on ice. That is where we are currently at.

Before we finish, I wish to respond to Deputy Kennedy's question about environmental challenges. The aviation industry contributes 2% of greenhouse gas emissions. The view in Europe is that if we improve our air traffic management and our operations, we can reduce emissions by between 7% and 12% per flight, which equates to 16 tonnes of CO2. It is important to note that every one cent increase in the price of a barrel of oil adds €1.4 billion to airline costs given that an aircraft uses one tonne of fuel in 20 minutes in the air. What we have done off the west coast in terms of removing direct routes, giving better climbs and so on will contribute approximately €40 million to airlines' cost reduction efforts over the next three or four years. There may even be greater cost reductions; we will get a feel in the first year for what can be achieved.

I am thankful to the delegates for their open and honest answers. We will be delighted to have them back in the future.

Deputy Frank Fahey resumed the Chair.

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