I move:—
New section. Before Section 2 to insert a new section as follows:—
"The Constitution shall be and is hereby amended by the deletion from Article 52 thereof of the word ‘Dáil' and the insertion in that Article of the word ‘Oireachtas' in lieu of the word so deleted."
New section. After the preceding section to insert a new section as follows:—
"The Constitution shall be and is hereby amended by the deletion from Article 58 thereof of the word ‘Dáil' and the insertion in that Article of the word ‘Oireachtas' in lieu of the word so deleted."
Members of the Seanad are familiar with these amendments. They simply propose to make Senators eligible for Executive office. Senators are also familiar with the course of the Bill up to the present stage. It was referred to a Special Committee of this House, and the result of that reference was that the Committee advised that further consideration be postponed, and that the Dáil be invited to join in setting up a Joint Committee to deal with the measure. The Dáil, in its wisdom, or unwisdom, saw fit not to accept that invitation, and the Bill is now left to us to take up its consideration at the point where we left off when the Special Committee of this House was appointed. The Minister for Justice, in submitting the Message to the Dáil, reviewed the whole position. At the outset he referred to the framers of the Constitution, and to the particular clause in the Constitution setting up a Legislature in this country. He said that it was recognised that there should be some effective liaison between the two Houses. He stated that in other countries, in the Dominions and elsewhere, where members of the Second Chamber were eligible for executive office, that was the way they proceeded to establish an effective liaison between the two Houses, but that as the conditions of this country were different and changing the framers of the Constitution thought it better to bring about the same result here by empowering Ministers who were chosen for executive office from members of the Dáil to follow legislative measures sent to the Second Chamber and to help it to arrive at a decision by giving them every possible information that was given to the other House on these measures.
In answer to that I must say that there is also a provision in the Constitution which enables the Oireachtas within eight years to amend the Constitution; after that time it can only be amended by referendum. That, no doubt, is a very wise provision, but it indicated certain doubts in the minds of the framers of the Constitution, no matter what their prescience might be, or how machinery of that sort would work out. Therefore they introduced this clause in the Constitution. It is the result of the application of this machinery to our legislative measures and our procedure that we ourselves would be in a position, within eight years, to remedy any defects that were discovered in the Constitution for any reason. Not very long ago members of the Dáil and the Executive Council saw fit to introduce amendments to the Constitution. Their conception of the extent to which the Constitution could be strained in any direction which they desired to go was indicated by a Bill brought in here which, if it were passed in the form in which it was presented to this House, would result in the anomaly of a member having the full right and power to sit in the Dáil, to vote, act and affect legislation in so far as his vote could affect it, without having a constituency—being responsible to no constituency, a free-lance, in other words.
If the Minister sets up the argument that it was never contemplated by the framers of the Constitution that Senators should never reach Executive office, I am sure that argument could be met by the counter-argument that the framers of the Constitution never visualised or anticipated that such an anomalous position would arise as that, by any subterfuge or otherwise, a member could act in the Dáil without being responsible to any constituency and remain in that anomalous position for a certain number of years. Yet this Executive Council, which is so punctilious in other matters, gave their sanction to that proposal, and were it not for the superior acumen and higher standards of competence that exist here at times, that anomaly would have passed into law and would exist to-day.
The Minister, when dealing with the claim made by the Seanad as to infringement of its rights, asked what rights? My conception of the infringement is simply this: That under the Bill as it stands there is power to narrow down the margin of appointment of extern Ministers, thereby encroaching on the position of Senators and others outside the Dáil. There is power given to increase the number of Executive Ministers, but the privilege of selection is confined to members of the Dáil only, and no compensating privilege is given to Senators. The Minister also said that we had no further right to a grievance than Paddy Murphy of Skibbereen. That is so, but if Paddy Murphy of Skibbereen were consulted about the Bill, and if we were attacked as we were afterwards attacked, it might be found he would be a very indignant and vocal citizen. We were not consulted, and when we sensed the insidiousness of the Bill we rose up here unanimously and objected to the measure. Notwithstanding our unanimity here we were treated in a very discourteous way by the Dáil, and in his presentation of the case the Minister's attitude was most disappointing to this House, because when the amendments were first considered the Minister was very favourable and agreeable to our proposals. I think it was his own suggestion that it should be referred to a Special Committee of the House.