I move amendment No. 1:—
In page 3, Section 4, sub-section (1), clause (c), paragraph (i), to add after the word "thereof" in line 6, the words "Provided, however, that the company shall not itself sell for human consumption as a beverage any spirit distilled by it and shall use its best endeavours to prevent the sale by any other person for human consumption as a beverage of any spirit distilled by it unless the Minister certifies that he is of opinion that such spirit is not distilled by private enterprise in sufficient quantity to meet the reasonable demand for such spirit.
This amendment arises out of the discussion on Section 4 during the Committee Stage. The House will recollect that that is the operative section altering the objects of the company which was set up under the 1938 Act. I pointed out then to the Minister certain doubts and difficulties which might arise through those alterations, that there was a danger that the distillation by this company of potable industrial spirit might render it possible for that potable spirit to be used to displace existing industry or to be used for the purpose of adulteration or for other unsatisfactory purposes—not by the State company itself but by those to whom the company might sell the spirit when distilled. The Minister then made it clear that, in his view, the spirit produced by the alcohol company —and to be produced in the future by Ceimící Teoranta—was always potable but that, having been distilled, it was denatured and so rendered unsuitable for potable use. Having regard to that, I submit an amendment which is completely restricted to the dangers which I visualised then and which, with the permission of the Chair, I will recapitulate for the benefit of the House.
My amendment merely provides that the company shall not, itself, sell its spirit for human consumption as a beverage, and shall use its best endeavours to prevent such sale by anybody else. So far as the first part is concerned, I do not think that the Minister intends that this company will so engage in the sale of spirit distilled by it and on that point I do not think the Minister and I are at differences at all. Where we differ is in regard to the possibility that this spirit, having been produced with State funds, would be utilised by some other person—with the indirect assistance of the State, therefore—to displace existing industry or damage it in regard to the quality of the spirit.
The case on the last occasion seemed mainly to turn around the manufacture of gin. Prior to the war, the average consumption of gin here was approximately 30,000 gallons per annum. In present circumstances, there is already here a private enterprise manufacturing gin from raw materials, 99 per cent. of which are produced, from their inception, in Ireland, and manufacturing that gin at the rate, in the last six months, of 28,500 gallons a year. Therefore there is a margin of only 1,500 gallons between the pre-war demand and the present output by private enterprise. I agree that there is greater demand now than in pre-war days, arising from the shortage at present of wines, rum, brandy and so on, but the fact remains that the reason the output of this particular private enterprise is confined to 28,500 gallons is that, of necessity, Government control has diverted the raw materials to other purposes. In fact, 28,500 gallons are the maximum output this private enterprise can produce with the materials allowed to it by the State. If greater quantities of raw materials were allowed, they would be in a position not only to make up the very small difference between the present output and the pre-war consumption but to meet at once all the demands for gin here.
This particular manufacturer does not import raw industrial spirit. He makes his own industrial spirit from grain— not from potatoes, from which Ceimící Teoranta will make theirs—and uses something less than 1 per cent. of flavouring herbs, which must, in any event, come from foreign countries, as they cannot be produced here by anybody. Since he makes the gin from 99 per cent. Irish materials and is in a position to supply the total demand of the Irish market, I suggest that it would be grossly unfair to permit a State company — or anybody else helped, so to speak, by State moneys— to go into the market and displace the existing enterprise. The enterprise was started about the end of 1937 in the very greatest difficulties, having to compete with a tremendous barrage from all the established brands of gin, which were advertised not merely here but everywhere else and which, therefore, were very hard to displace.
The war assisted this particular enterprise, but it was started before the war and was experimenting and had gone into production before the war. During the war, comparatively speaking, no gin was imported. In 1945—the last year for which details are supplied in the Statistical Abstract or the Revenue Commissioners' Report— this manufacturer supplied the entire Irish market, with the exception of only 3,500 gallons. Since 1945, he has been able to increase still further and I venture to say that the 1946 figures will show that the gap has been closed even more.
I admit the Minister has no intention that this company will step in to do that manufacturing, but the Minister has stated that the spirit will be produced cheaper and better for other people to buy it. If he does not recollect his statement exactly, he will find it in column 482 of the last report. The gin produced by this private enterprise is considered as good if not better than any of the dry gins imported and it is the cheapest gin on the market to-day. If the spirit used by Ceimící Teoranta is sold to anyone else for production as gin, all that can happen is that someone else will be displaced. I think it will be agreed that that is not the intention or desire of this State operated company and it would be grossly unfair for such a company to do that with the aid of the taxpayers' money.
Apart from the market in respect of spirit for gin, there is the danger that, if this spirit is produced in very great quantity, it might be utilised by other persons for the adulteration of Irish whiskey and sold as such. There is no suggestion whatever that any private individual or privately-owned company cannot get into the manufacture of either pot still or patent still whiskey if they desire to do so. The patent still whiskey is whiskey produced from industrial alcohol spirit, though that spirit is made from grain and not from potatoes. I suggest there should be different considerations in respect of the aid of the State being given towards the private individual getting into such manufacture and operation.
The dangers of that to the national interest are so very obvious that I do not think it is necessary for me to stress it very much. I want to stress, however, that it is not suggested that this company will engage in such adulteration or in such sale as that of which we are afraid. But I suggest that it is making available national resources which can be utilised in a manner completely foreign and antagonistic to the national interest. We know that, as a result of its quality, pot still Irish whiskey has got a name of which we are all justly proud. It would be very undesirable that the State, as such, should do anything, even indirectly, which, even if it did not damage, would involve the risk of damaging, the reputation of a product for quality which has been maintained and accepted here and abroad consistently down the years. That danger is, particularly, operative in the case of the export market. This product would be manufactured in Ireland and could be sold to anybody here. They would then be entitled to sell it abroad as Irish whiskey though, in fact, it would not be Irish whiskey, as members of the House understand the term. It would be stuff made industrially from potatoes.
Without going into the matter in any great detail, I may refer to a paragraph in the newspapers during the past few days which described how this industrial spirit was used for drinking purposes in America at a party. The consequence was that six persons had to be removed to hospital and two died. The spirit distilled from potatoes and wood is indicated. When denatured and rendered undrinkable, that spirit is used for industrial purposes, such as combastion. That is an aspect of the danger which will arise. It is an aspect of great importance from the point of view of our export trade. So far as home consumption is concerned, I suggest that the only difference which increased whiskey distillation can make, taking the long view, is that it will either take from the existing trade or else mean that we shall increase our capacity for spirit-drinking as a nation. I do not think that anybody—least of all the Minister— would be anxious to accept the second alternative. Therefore, all that can happen is, if this company goes into the production of spirit for somebody else to turn into whiskey, that it will displace an existing industry which is of the greatest value.
I wanted to be perfectly sure when I was framing an amendment to this Bill that I would not frame it in a way which would restrict what we would all consider the proper and rightful scope of the products of the company. The company is empowered to manufacture chemical products and there is a most specific proviso in the Bill that, before they do that, they must seek a licence from the Minister. The Minister must, before he grants that licence, go through certain formalities of publicity, of receiving objections and considering the objections made. I did not think that it was desirable that even that long process should be adopted in this case. All that my amendment asks the company to accept, and all that I now ask the Minister to accept, is the proposition that, before this company distils spirit which might endanger the existence of any private enterprise, the Minister will certify that he is of opinion that such spirit is not distilled by private enterprise in sufficient quantity to meet the reasonable demands for such spirit. No Minister would give a certificate of that nature without having considered the facts carefully and obtained all the information that was desirable or necessary. If the Minister were of opinion that the company was merely going to displace an imported spirit, he would give a certificate, but if the company by entering into a transaction of this kind enabled somebody else to take from an industry already existing, then I think that no Minister would give a certificate. It is for that reason I have framed the amendment in this way, leaving it completely to the Minister's Department to take the proper steps to ascertain whether the demand is being reasonably met by existing enterprise and, if not so met, leaving him in the position to direct that the company shall do these things.
I must stress, before I conclude, that it is not the fear that Ceimící Teoranta will do these things which influences me. It is the fear that, if they make these spirits freely available, other people will, as an indirect result of such activity, be able severely to damage industries already existing which are of great value to the community and that all that will happen, so far as employment is concerned, will be that employment in one place will be transferred to another.
