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Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 10 Aug 1971

Vol. 71 No. 1

Northern Ireland Situation: Motion

I move:

That in view of the critical situation for the Irish people north and south which has arisen because of recent events in Northern Ireland Seanad Éireann urges the desirability of joint discussion thereon between the Government and Opposition Parties in Oireachtas Éireann.

I am moving this motion with a full sense of responsibility. All of us have been deeply shocked and saddened by the events which have taken place in Northern Ireland over the past few days. Certainly neither I nor any person associated with me in the Fine Gael Party would like to say anything or even to risk having anything said which would in any way inflame feelings in the north or kindle any feelings of bitterness or animosity there. Being an Opposition party, we are very deeply conscious of a definite sense of responsibility in this matter. We have already made it clear—and I should like to make it clear again—that in no sense should any of us, in Opposition or in Government, regard the northern situation as something which should become the plaything of southern politics. I have no wish, nor have any of my colleagues any wish, to traffic for party political purposes in the sufferings and anxieties of our fellow countrymen in the north.

We are deeply saddened and deeply shocked by what has occurred in the north over the past few days. I feel— and this is the real reason why I am moving this motion—that it is necessary that political parties represented in the Parliament of southern Ireland should show a very definite sense of responsibility in this matter. Whatever our political differences here in the south may be, all of us should be prepared to stand side by side in a united way in our approach to the problems posed by the northern situation. I know very well that a party in opposition risks being tagged with responsibility without authority if they are prepared to enter into discussions with the Government party in a situation like this. I recognise very well that any mistake, any rash words which may be spoken—and I hope none will be—by those in authority if spoken by the Government and if there have been discussions such as I have suggested in this motion, my party and any other Opposition parties who may be prepared to enter such discussions, could be and possibly would be, tagged with some part of the responsibility for any inadvertent errors or slips that may be made.

It is a measure of our anxiety and our sincerity to be helpful that we ask in this motion that Seanad Éireann should encourage, should urge, the desirability of joint discussion such as I have spoken of. I do not want to say much more than I have said already. I think that it would be helpful in calming the situation in the north. That must be the first desire of all of us. If politicians south of the Border could, and could be seen to, speak in a united way on these problems, if the Government speak merely as a political party, Fianna Fáil; if we speak as an Opposition party, Fine Gael; if Labour speak as another Opposition party; even though the end result which all of us seek to achieve may be the same, even though the words we use may be virtually the same, even though we may all seek to have a soothing and a calming effect and to de-escalate the situation in the north, I do not think it would have the same weight or impact as if we could show to the world that here in the south, in face of a critical situation in dangerous times, we were prepared to consult one with another and were prepared to pool our brains, our resources and our energies to try to be as helpful as we can to our countrymen in the north. I recognise the risks in an Opposition party offering to engage in that kind of discussion but I feel this is a time when, for the sake of the entire country, we must be prepared to take political risks. All of us must be prepared to look at this matter from the viewpoint of the nation as a whole, north and south, and none of us can afford to look at it from a party political point of view. I would earnestly ask the Seanad to adopt this resolution.

I formally second the motion.

I welcome the sentiments expressed by Senator O'Higgins in proposing this motion. I agree wholeheartedly with him that we, in this part of Ireland, should show an example of self-control, responsibility and united voice in regard to the tragedy which has overtaken the people in the north-eastern counties. Our sympathies, naturally, are with all who have suffered in this unfortunate situation. We realise, as Senator O'Higgins has pointed out, that words dropped easily or dropped casually may be a cause of grave disservice to the nation. I echo his appeal that every one of our people should speak responsibly and should speak with a sense of the gravity of the occasion in regard to all matters connected with what is happening in the north these days. There is no doubt that there is, in this part of Ireland, so far as the objective is concerned, a completely united front among all political parties. There is no doubt that our sympathies, unitedly, are with those people who have suffered and are suffering as a consequence of the events which are taking place in the north.

We are convinced, as the British Military Commander in the north is convinced, as the former British Foreign Secretary, Michael Stewart is convinced, and as a large section of the British Press is now convinced, that there can be no military solution to the problems of the Six Counties. We are convinced that only a political solution will bring the desired peace among the people in that area. Our prayers and good wishes should go to everyone who makes an effort, in any direction, to bring about peace and harmony between varying sections of the people of the north. There is no doubt that the British Government are slowly becoming convinced of the truth of Michael Stewart's statement. There is no doubt, also, that the opinion created throughout Great Britain is swinging strongly in favour of the proposition that the time has come for a political settlement with a view of restoring peace and harmony. Every effort that can be made, on our part, should be made to bring that about.

If the Seanad, by approving of this resolution proposed by Senator O'Higgins, can contribute in any way to showing the people of the country that on this matter, at least, we speak with one voice then this discussion will have been worth while and we will have done a very good day's work for the nation. I am happy to inform the House that the Taoiseach has, this evening, 'phoned the Leader of the Fine Gael Party, Mr. Cosgrave, and the Leader of the Labour Party, Mr. Corish, to tell them that he will keep them informed, regularly, of any developments in the situation and that he will be open to receive their suggestions, comments and views at any time. I have no doubt that, throughout the country, the same unity of purpose which we have shown here will be manifested by our people. I appeal to all, and especially to those with whom I have any influence, to be very careful in any words they may use which could add fuel to the flames which are now sweeping parts of the north-eastern counties.

I am probably in a unique position here in being one of the few people who has had actual experience of a civil war. Based on that experience I would do anything to ensure that such a tragedy could never happen in this country or in any part of it again. The grave danger that I see is that injudicious remarks and injudicious actions may contribute to escalate an already dangerous situation. I trust that our people down here will take heed of the consequences which might follow as a result of lightly-spoken words or injudicious actions. The Taoiseach in his Garden of Remembrance speech on the anniversary of the Truce put the issues, so far as Nationalist Ireland was concerned, fairly and squarely. Yesterday he made certain proposals and we await some reply to those proposals. We can only pray that commonsense will prevail and that, among those in a position to influence events in the north and at Westminster, intelligence will conquer prejudice and that they will realise that the time has come to stop this bloodbath and to restore the situation which all Irishmen, irrespective of creed or politics, would wish to see: that is harmony, unity, peace and neighbourliness among all sections of the Irish people irrespective of creed or class. We can have that and we must have it if this entire country is to prosper. That should be our aim, and it should be our objective. It should also be the object of our prayers.

While I have sympathy with the idea and sentiments in the motion before the House, I must express a certain amount of disappointment with it. I fail to see what meetings of this kind, held behind closed doors, are likely to achieve. I agree with what Senators O'Higgins and Ó Maoláin stated regarding anything that might be said or done at this particular point in time which might have very tragic consequences for our people in the six north-eastern counties; but we have the assurance of the Leader of the House that the Taoiseach has informed him that he will keep in touch with Deputy Cosgrave, the Leader of the Fine Gael Party and Deputy Corish, the Leader of the Labour Party.

I and, I think, the movers of the motion are grateful for that assurance but the assurance in itself is not sufficient. I should like to put forward the idea that we have a joint meeting of the Dáil and Seanad where Standing Orders might be suspended and where the MP's for Stormont and for Westminster from the six north-eastern counties could come along and take part in a debate of that kind.

As Senator Ó Maoláin has rightly pointed out, the three parties here have adopted an attitude of responsibility in this tragic situation. We hope that that will continue. We would not be gaining in public confidence if we were to go along the lines suggested in this motion and merely have meetings which would be held behind closed doors whereby our people would not be kept in touch with what was really happening.

The tragic situation which exists in the north at the moment is of course the result of the frustrations and injustices from which the minority have suffered for a long period. There was reason to hope after August of 1969 that the position there was improving, that there were hopes of improvement and that the situation was moving at least towards an interim solution; but these hopes, unfortunately, have not been realised and it has been clear that in recent months Stormont was dragging its feet and that the certain section in the north were regaining the influence which they had in the past.

The speeches which we have heard in recent months up there calling for the return of the B Specials and the rearming of the RUC disclosed an appalling lack of appreciation of what has taken place there in the last few years and of the changes that have taken place in the minds of the minority in the north. Everybody there must realise that in 1969 and in the months that followed the minority attained a taste of independence, a taste of freedom, a taste of an assurance which meant that for them things could never be the same again. Certainly when people up there tried to speak as though things could be the same again, it led to the frustration and the events which have taken place in the last few days. It would appear that some people have learned nothing and have forgotten nothing. It is clear that until the minority there are given nothing less than first class citizenship they cannot be expected to be satisfied and until Stormont and Westminster take positive radical imaginative steps to ensure that this end is realised then there cannot be lasting peace in the north or in this country generally.

No matter how we may feel, no matter how much the frustration may be, no matter how much the injustice may be, no matter how much the provocation may be, no long term advantage can be gained by violence of any kind. Even those who feel that short term advantage can be gained must quickly realise that the advantage is very short term indeed and that it has had a tragic loss of life and tragic consequences. So we must remain firm in our conviction that, no matter how hard it may be to be patient, it is only by peaceful means that a final solution can be achieved to the problem which is presented by the division of this country. We want the long term solution. What we want to attain ultimately is a united Ireland. That means an Ireland in which all the people are united and in which no one section is dominated by any other.

In the situation which presents itself to us at the moment we need the co-operation of everybody, everybody of goodwill, everybody who believes in a peaceful rather than a violent end to this situation. Consequently, I agree that all the parties and everybody in this part of the country should unite and co-operate in every possible way to help to take such measures as are necessary to deal with this situation. I am in general agreement with the sentiments which are expressed by this motion.

I should like to say that, in spite of the angry words which were spoken here this afternoon, I appreciate and value the tone adopted by Senator Ó Maoláin in replying to the proposal of Senator O'Higgins. I am sorry if anything which I said here this afternoon may have contributed to the ill-humour with which the day began. I should like to try to make that expression of sorrow genuine by saying that the words which I stated in an angry moment to the effect that Senator Ó Maoláin's party had neglected the North of Ireland are, in a large measure, applicable to my own party as well. I believe that all parties in the Republic have neglected the North of Ireland and its problems over the last decades. The price for that neglect on all sides is being paid now, not by Fianna Fáil or by Fine Gael or the Labour Party, but by the people who live in the North of Ireland and who have to face the problems, which existence there presents them with every day.

I appreciate Senator Ó Maoláin's appeal to the people whom he describes as those over whom he might have some influence. I hope that Senators on the other side will not think that I am making a political point in saying this, that the people whom Senator Ó Maoláin has in mind ought to have a restraining influence exercised on them. I think well of him—if I may say so without impertinence—for saying in public something which he does not very often say, namely, that there are people holding the same nominal allegiance as himself who differ from him widely on questions of policy and tactics.

I was also glad to hear him say that he would go to any length to avoid a civil war in this country again. I take that to imply not in any sense a regret that he espoused the side which he did espouse during the Civil War in this part of the country. I do not mean that and I did not take him to mean that, but I take him to mean that he recognises that on issues on which feelings run high, as well as deep, honest men can differ and differ to the point of un-wisdom. These are recognitions, implicit in what Senator Ó Maoláin said, which I value and which the Senators on this side of the House will not forget quickly.

The main burden of the motion standing in the names of Senator O'Higgins and myself is the expression of the opinion of this House that the national interest will be served by discussion between the parties represented in this Parliament. The reason for that is not to give any particular importance to the Leader of this party that he does not otherwise merit, or to the Leader of the Labour Party that he does not otherwise merit. The reason for this motion is not to make Mr. Cosgrave or Mr. Corish privy to decisions or counsels which do not democratically belong to them. The reason for it—and the main burden of what we on this side are trying to do—is to give confidence to the people of this Republic. I ask Senators on the other side with all sincerity to believe that I am not trying to register an easy point against them when I say this. The reason why it is important at this stage that we should try to provide the people with something to hold to and something to look to is that there are people in this Parliament whose allegiance to the idea of peace, to the ideals which the Taoiseach, Deputy Lynch himself, has expressed, is suspect, and it is not 24 hours since some of these people expressed those ideas in metaphorical forms which, if I were a Northern Unionist, would make me very angry. I know very well that Senators on the other side know whom I have in mind and that these are the people whom Senator Ó Maoláin's has in mind. I realise that these people are a minority of Senator Ó Maoláin's party, and I realise that any big party, be it Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil, has to deal with people within its ranks who do not and will not conform to the party line, whether for reasons of their own or because of an inherited disposition. However, these people are there in the Government party. They represent a respectable fraction of the Government party, and their existence in that party represents for the people in this Republic a source of suspicion that the stability of the Government is dubious. That is why consultation between the Government party and the other parties represented in the Parliament of this Republic is so vitally important.

I hope that these words have not offended anyone in the House. I should not have been doing my job if I had not made them plain. The ordinary citizen of this Republic, for the reasons I have given, does not and cannot have total confidence in the party which at the moment is conducting affairs. Although the sincerity of the Taoiseach, Deputy Lynch is accepted by the people in regard to his desire for peace in the North of Ireland, their peace of mind and their sense of stability and security would be immeasurably heightened if they could see that the words coming out of this House, directed to the North of Ireland, or directed to Britain, or further afield, came not only from the Taoiseach but also from the other democratic parties represented in this House. That is the chief importance of this motion; that is the reason why we have put this motion down; that is the reason why we feel that its acceptance by the House will be of value to the people.

I hope that, in spite of a rocky start to the day, we have managed to avoid anger and recrimination. I also hope that it will not be taken amiss if I say that occasional dispensations of information by the Taoiseach to Deputy Cosgrave or to Deputy Corish, or occasionally making himself accessible to these gentlemen, will not fulfil the purpose which we have in mind. What we have in mind is not occasional hand-outs by the Taoiseach to his opposite numbers, or making himself accessible to their suggestions, but constant frank consultation. Nothing but that, in my view, in these deadly days, is going to make the ordinary citizen of this Republic feel that he is in the hands of secure, stable people and of a stable Government. These are the reasons why we have put down this motion. I repeat my appreciation of the spirit in which the remarks of Senator O'Higgins were greeted by Senator Ó Maoláin and by Senator Ó Riain, and I hope that nothing I have said will detract from the spirit in which I hope the motion will now be accepted.

When this motion was read to us at 7.30 p.m. by Senator O'Higgins, I expressed disappointment at the mildness of the language in it, in that it urged the desirability of joint discussions on the northern situation by the political parties here. I did so partly because I felt that it did not need a Seanad resolution to get joint discussions here, and partly because I felt that the north deserved, perhaps, an even more serious resolution. Yet I am grateful for the half loaf and also I should like to associate myself with the sentiments expressed on both sides of the House, and to join with those who have stressed the seriousness of the situation and the necessity for a peaceful solution and for a political solution to the situation.

I am particularly glad that we have the opportunity to debate this resolution because I agree—Senator Kelly made this point—that there is great value in the Government here acting in consultation and in co-operation with the other political parties. You then have the mandate of a national Government. You have the Government acting not from the point of view of Fianna Fáil but from the point of view of the three political parties, in other words, of the people of the South. This is of great value in what will be a very tense situation. It is of great value in the international sphere. Northern Ireland is a tragic focus of world attention and we will be judged here in the south by our reactions. If we react in a united way and if it is seen that the Government have consulted the Opposition parties and act with this national mandate and authority, this will carry great significance and will make a great impact.

Having said this it is necessary to go further in the terms of this debate and ask what will they discuss. We must at least hazard a guess at what might be discussed, and constructively discussed, at these meetings between the political parties. Obviously, the first matter which ought to be discussed is the question of internment. It was internment in Northern Ireland which triggered off this holocaust and I should hope that in a discussion the political parties will make it clear that the situation in the south does not warrant internment, that we do not have a breakdown of law and order and that under no circumstances would this be acceptable jointly to the parties in the south. If this were made clear it would be a very valuable contribution to the discussion.

Another question on which there might be useful joint discussions in the political parties is that of a political solution. They may with great emphasis point out the desirability of our system of election, of proportional representation, the desirability of what the Taoiseach yesterday described, but did not elaborate on, as a new administration in Stormont. It is obvious that the present composition of Stormont is not acceptable. From here suggestions might come of a committee system in which the Opposition might take a part in the administration and government in Northern Ireland. This is the type of joint thinking, the type of joint ideas, which would be helpful and would be very significant in the present situation. It requires radical thinking and radical solutions and the greater uniformity, the greater the joint mandate from here, the greater authority this will carry. I welcome this resolution and support it very strongly.

Having been involved earlier on in some of the happenings in our country and having a close and intimate knowledge of the situation, I resolved some years ago to exercise at all times the greatest care in any word that I might utter, either in private or in public, in relation to the very grave and serious problem of division we have had here throughout this century. Knowing and understanding the consequences of communal strife, I would do all I possibly could to avoid saying anything that might in any way whatsoever add fuel to the already overheated atmosphere in our country. I had some doubts earlier on about the wisdom of this motion but the Senators who have already spoken have resolved that for me. This is too serious a question for anyone of us to engage in playing to the gallery. I was very glad to hear Senator O'Higgins speak as he did at the start.

A good deal of stress has been put on the idea of the political parties coming together here with the mandate of a national government. I have spent a good deal of my time in the north over the years. I am connected with bodies in the north and I think I understand the feelings that underlie the problems there. One of the great difficulties, one of the things we ourselves are virtually unable to cope with, is the very large number of Irish people in the north of the Protestant faiths who have been indoctrinated into believing that we have some idea of taking over the north as they call it. Therefore, it should be stressed that the coming together here as a united group is for the purpose of resolving a problem because it is too easy for politicians of one kind or another to turn good intentions into something entirely different. It is because of our joint concern and anxiety for people that all parties here are united and not for aggressive purposes.

I welcome the opportunity of expressing the gravest concern and anxiety for Irish people who are caught up in the web of history. These are people whom I have described before as being prisoners of a black, black past. The situation in which we are living is one during which we must exercise complete self-discipline in the interests of the lives and security of all our fellow Irishmen of all classes and creeds in the north. This is a time when calmness of mind, maturity and a vision for the future are the things which are essential.

We all know that in this country and in every other country, every dispute, every disagreement must end up at the conference table. We also know that in communal strife of any kind there is never a victor, nobody can win. I should like to repeat something that I said on Easter Sunday, 1966, in Trafalgar Square to try to clear the air on a situation which has bedevilled our history, that is, that, we do not seek and never have sought domination over Irish Protestants. I realise that there are many in the north who have been indoctrinated by fear and suspicion of their neighbours and of us, indoctrinated for political motives and they are unable for various reasons to look at their own country and at us through normal eyes. There is no intention— and this has been said here—thank God, over the past few years, on the part of any representative body to try to exercise any sort of domination over our fellow countrymen in the north. To employ those methods would simply be to repeat the errors of history. These are the kinds of methods that were used before my time, and before the time of most of the people here, against this country. To me it is inconceivable that the men whom we respect, those who set out in 1916 to set an example to this nation and to get this nation standing upright on its feet, it is inconceivable that such methods would conform with the ideals of those men. The situation that exists at the present time and has existed as long as I can remember in the north did not begin last year or the year before or 50 years ago. It merely took form in 1921 as a result of the 1920 Act. What we have got to understand is that it resulted from British policy over centuries of a pretty bad history. This situation is not the fault of the present or previous British Governments, or of the British people; but because of the part that Britain played in our history and because of her existing involvement in the situation in this country Britain has got a direct responsibility to resolve the situation and the sooner she sets about that in the interests of all of us, north, south and in Britain, the better.

I would urge our fellow Protestants in the north to try to understand that a minority has the right to live without discrimination, without repression and that it has to be given equality. I should like them to understand that Ireland can be a great place to live in and to work for, that we all owe our country our devotion and that the interests and security of all our people in the whole of Ireland must come first with every one of us, irrespective of creed or class. I wish they would understand that we and the generations that follow us will have to live here in Ireland and contribute to Ireland for centuries to come and that they and their descendants will have to live here also. If we could get that message across to them and could impress on them that despite the past our aim is an ideal; it is not something that we are imposing on anybody. It is a perfectly legitimate ideal and it is one in which they can share, whenever they want to but that we do not wish to compel them.

I should like to end by saying that I hope that every citizen of the Republic will exercise the greatest care and self-discipline in what they say or do in the present situation because the lives of our people of both sides in the north can be involved in any foolish remarks or actions.

As an independent Member of this House, I should like to support this motion. I should also like to associate myself with what was said by the Leader of the House about the urgent need not to say anything here or elsewhere that might inflame the situation in the North of Ireland. If we had here now a full debate on what is going on in the northern part of this country, it might not be possible to avoid saying things that might have some adverse effect. On that account, I think this resolution has considerable merit in avoiding this and, at the same time, giving us an opportunity of expressing our views moderately but with some force and letting it be seen that in expressing these views that the views have the support of all parties. I should like to associate myself also with what Senator Brugha has said. I do not propose to say any more but if I am speaking briefly it is because the hour allotted to this motion is already now nearly past and other speakers wish to take part in the discussion and it is not for any lack of sincerity. I do support this motion very sincerely.

The debate this evening will redound to the credit of the Members of this House and it will do much to add to the image of this House of the Oireachtas. It will do a good deal to bind our people together and to encourage them to think of this problem in a rational coherent way. I feel safe in saying that if there are two top priorities common to all the parties in this House and to all Members of this and the other House they would be the abolition of Partition and the restoration of the national language. On these two problems we are all agreed. We agree that they are the top priorities confronting us as a people. We may differ in the ways most likely to attain these objectives but of the two objectives themselves we have not any doubt. It is a good thing that here tonight we can sink our differences, historical and others, and come together and have a rational assessment of the situation as it confronts us now.

Of the two top priorities the one that is most urgent by virtue of what is happening in the northern part of the country is the restoration of national unity on the clear-cut evidence that the system of partitioning this country and establishing a puppet sectarian government in one part of it is breaking down. We should come together and present the strongest possible case as a united people to the third party and the one that is mainly responsible for keeping it in existence, that is the British Government. They are maintaining that régime in existence by a subsidy of over £100 million a year and by other methods. We must indicate to the British people now that no matter what our differences may be we are at one in demanding that that continue no further. A mature people in times of crisis come together to achieve a common end. An immature people in times of crisis are apt to break up and become further sub-divided and run off in incoherent clamour with different objectives to attain an ideal that they soon lose sight of in their excitement and in their panic. As is clear from what has been said here tonight, nobody in this House has lost sight of the objective. It is most important at a time in world history when members of the British Parliament of all sides are loud in their condemnation of what is happening in Rhodesia and South Africa that we as a united people should present the obvious truth to them, that they are conniving at and insisting on something of the same nature being perpetrated in this island, their next door neighbour.

I believe that we can do that best by all parties coming together and speaking with one voice. I do not believe for one minute that the members of the Government party here today are not doing their utmost to achieve these objectives. Neither do I believe that the Leaders of Fine Gael or the Labour Party would not in the same situation do their best to achieve the same effect. But I do believe that a binding together of all the people in this country would bring the situation home more forcibly to the people of Britain. The man in the street in Britain today, in common with his colleague in all parts of the world, is better informed as to what is going on than he was 150 or 200 years ago when autocrats acted on behalf of the people. If we could get it across to the people of Britain that boys in the British Army are being done to death in order to maintain something in which the British people themselves do not believe, they would not tolerate it.

I believe that it is certainly not as difficult to bring the Leaders of Fine Gael, Labour and Fianna Fáil together here in this kind of crisis as it was in Britain, during their time of crisis, to bring Winston Churchill and Ernest Bevin into the same government. What is needed is to get our priorities right, to go one step further on the lines which we have adopted here today, to sink the minor differences and come together not only to form a national council or discussion group but to form a national government so that the people in this part of the country will, with the nationalists in the North of Ireland and their exiled brethren at the far ends of the earth, present a united front to the British people indicating that the people of Ireland want unity for Thirty-two Counties. If we present a united front to the world, no Government, whether it be led by Mr. Ted Heath or Mr. Harold Wilson, could withstand that force, and in the end I am convinced we would achieve one of our two top priorities.

As an Ulsterman I should like to comment briefly. In doing so, I fully realise that it is very easy to say too much and to say the wrong thing. Living in Donegal and as one who has keenly observed the good relations that existed between all shades of opinion in County Donegal, I have high hopes, despite the hardline evidence in recent months, that with our entry into the Common Market much of the problem will have been resolved. As one who has come from quite near the Border, I have always looked on it as having been assembled in three different sections and as affecting the general public in three different ways. We have the domestic border that runs between the Six and the Twenty-Six Counties and affects the day-to-day lives of our people. This automatically creates a psychological border, which is very evident there.

I am afraid, Senator, the clock has moved on to 9.30 and the time for discussion of this motion has now ended.

In common with others I was beaten by the clock.

Question put and agreed to.
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