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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 20 Feb 1974

Vol. 77 No. 2

Exchequer and Local Financial Years Bill, 1973: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The basic purpose of the Bill is to change the Exchequer financial year and the local financial year, both of which end on the 31st March under present law, so that as from the 1st January, 1975, they will coincide with the calendar year. As a transitional measure, the Bill provides that the nine-months period from the 1st April, 1974, to the 31st December, 1974, will form a separate financial period for both Exchequer and local authority purposes. The nine-months financial period will have its own estimates, budget, accounts and local rates.

The Government have also decided in principle to change the income tax year, which ends on the 5th April, to coincide with the calendar year but provision for this is not however included in the present Bill. Having regard to the complexity of the income tax code and of the detailed arrangements which will have to be made for a transition to a calendar income tax year, it will be appreciated that lengthy preparatory work will be needed. An example of a practical aspect involved in a change of income tax year is the effect on the agreements which we have negotiated with other countries for the avoidance of double taxation. Of particular interest would be the implications for our agreement with Britain where the authorities have not yet indicated a timetable for adopting the calendar year.

Even without a change of tax year at this stage the change of Exchequer and local financial years will be in our best interests, nationally and internationally. Our own budgetary preparations will of course be facilitated since much of the economic statistics and projections which guide policy formulation is already on a calendar year basis. The finances and accounts of the original six member states of the European Communities and of the EEC Commission are on a calendar year basis so that a change to the same basis in our case will be of considerable practical advantage to us in our dealings with the Communities and the Commission.

More important still, the changeover will help in the co-ordination of the economic and budgetary policies of the member states which is an accepted aim of the Communities and is of course essential for progress towards economic and monetary union. I am sure that our changeover will be welcomed by the Communities.

Because of the very close relationship between the Exchequer and local authorities it is obviously necessary to continue to have the same timing for financial and accounting purposes. Otherwise unnecessary complications would arise which would impede the smooth operation of the work of the Exchequer and of the local authorities. The inter-relationship between local and central finances in this country is illustrated by the fact that over one-half of the moneys spent by local authorities and health boards is derived from State grants. This proportion may be expected to increase.

At this point I should like to mention the arrangements approved in respect of health and housing charges in the nine-months period. As Senators are aware, it is the policy of the Government to relieve the rates of liability in respect of health charges and local authority housing. The first instalment of easement towards this end was provided by the Exchequer in the present financial year 1973-74. As a result, local authorities needed to levy a rate for health charges and housing subsidies in 1973-74 equivalent to only 75 per cent of the rate levied in respect of them in the year 1972-73. For the transitional nine-months period from 1st April, 1974, to the 31st December, 1974, the Government have decided that the rates contribution towards health charges and local authority housing will be cut to 37½ per cent of the rate levied in these respects in the year 1972-73.

Senators will, I am sure, be interested in the implications of the proposed changeover for the business of the Seanad. As I indicated earlier, separate Estimates and a separate budget will be prepared for the nine-months period from the 1st April, 1974, to the 31st December, 1974. The Finance Bill will come about the usual time. The Appropriation Bill, 1974, will need to be enacted before the close of the nine-months period.

As regards calendar financial years from 1975 on, assuming that the budget is presented in the other House within the first couple of months of the financial year—as has been the usual timing—this would mean that the budget would be introduced in January or February each year. If there were Financial Resolutions involved the annual Finance Bill would then require to be enacted by about May or June. Following enactment of the present Bill I propose to have aspects of the change in financial year affecting parliamentary business referred to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges of both Seanad Éireann and Dáil Éireann for consideration.

As regards the effects of the proposed changeover of the local financial year on local authorities and ratepayers, the position will be as mentioned earlier that a separate rate will be struck based on the requirements for the nine-months period from 1st April, 1974, to the 31st December, 1974. The rates for the period will be payable in two parts—two-thirds on demand and the remaining one-third on the 1st October, 1974, except of course where arrangements for the payment of rates in monthly instalments apply. A substantial number of ratepayers usually have their full rates paid by the end of December. For those ratepayers there can be no difficulty about the transitional nine-months period. People who have in the past been often late in discharging their rates liabilities will have to make an adjustment but in the vast majority of cases this should be readily possible. Local authorities and rate collectors will as usual exercise discretion and will endeavour to avoid any element of hardship.

Needless to remark, local authorities must rely on the prompt payment of rates to meet their bills as they arise and to ensure that no disruption occurs in services or employment. Prompt payment of the full rates for the transitional nine-months period will improve the cash flow position of local authorities. In 1975 and subsequently such improvement can benefit ratepayers by reducing local authorities reliance on costly overdraft facilities the need for which is increased by delays in payment of rates due.

As the Bill is accompanied by an Explanatory Memorandum I do not at this stage propose to comment in detail on the individual sections of the Bill. However, I should like to mention one provision in which Senators may be interested, namely, section 5 which provides for the making of orders to effect a wide variety of consequential adaptations to existing statutes and statutory instruments. This is necessary so that the changeover to a calendar financial year for Exchequer and local authority purposes takes place smoothly. Examples of the matters to which such orders will apply are the statutory provisions relating to the making and collection of rates, the dates for the submission of estimates, demands and accounts, the apportionment of sums of money over the transitional nine-months period and the adjustment of provisions relating to rates remissions for housing and industrial buildings to compensate for the fact that in the transitional nine-months period a full year's rates remission of the appropriate amount will not be available.

The number of statutory references to be amended is considerable and while all Departments and offices are completing checks to ensure that all are identified it is impossible to guarantee that no such reference requiring amendment will escape notice for a time. Provision is therefore included in subsection 7 of section 5 to make a change retrospective if necessary. This is essentially a precautionary measure to ensure that no anomaly or inequity, particularly one which might affect adversely a member of the public, will be allowed to arise.

I commend the Bill to the House for a Second Reading.

This is a Bill which we will support fully, from the point of view of our group, on the basis that it rationalises the whole system of Exchequer financing, accounting and auditing as far as our membership of the EEC is concerned. This is the fundamental basis of it. As was mentioned by the Minister in his opening speech, the old system dated back to the procedure of the last century, designed for the times of that period, and we followed on with it.

There are only a few matters I should like to mention. Now that we have the Exchequer and local authorities going on to the calendar year, business in general should follow suit. This makes tremendous sense. If we are to have a European system and if members and local authorities within member States are to co-ordinate in this respect, generally as far as business is concerned the same thing should obtain. Whatever the date, it should be one date. Now apparently that the calendar year is accepted as the appropriate time, that should be the same, right through business as well as through the State and local authorities. I am certain business firms will fall in with this arrangement. It would lessen the confusion in the public mind as far as the State, local authorities and private enterprise activities are concerned, if there was a single year for all activities. If the calendar is accepted as such, then let it be the calendar year from 1st January to 31st December and stick to that.

The problems that made way for another separation in times past are now gone. We should stick with this, the European way, which is one further step towards the closer and more rational organisation of our affairs not alone internally but within the Community to which we now belong. I have nothing to say on the transitional problems mentioned by the Minister. These are being met in a sensible way within the context of the Bill. As far as it is concerned generally, it is welcomed by this side of the House.

I want to make only one or two points. Obviously this follows from our membership of the European Economic Community and it will be generally welcomed as a nationalising step, falling into line with the other eight members of the Community.

One point struck me in the Minister's speech. In Great Britain there was some dragging of the feet, and having regard to our close relationship economically with the British economy, I am wondering if there is likely to be any disruption of this relationship. Further, Mr. Harold Wilson has stated that if he is successful in the forthcoming British election he proposes to renegotiate the terms of accession to the European Economic Community. In other words, we may have to visualise a situation that if there is a change of Government in England the British may not follow the example of the other members of the European Economic Community. I am wondering if this is likely to have any adverse effects in our financial relationships with Great Britain.

As the Minister said, the Revenue Commissioners' year will also change in due course. It would be very advisable that all business firms and others affected by this change would be notified well in advance of the change so that they can make the necessary adjustments in their own affairs.

I want to pose a query to the Minister. I take it that the reference to the alleviation of the rates in respect of liability for health and housing charges is an announcement of the continuation of the Government's policy to eliminate progressively these charges on the rates in conformity with the undertaking given by the National Coalition in their 14-Point Plan.

Like other Members, I welcome this Bill. It is very necessary that we should keep in line with our partners in Europe. I had intended to ask the same question that Senator Halligan has just asked the Minister. Perhaps he would tell us if the percentage given in his speech, namely, 37½ per cent, is in line with the cuts promised by the Government?

There is one part of the Minister's speech that I am slightly concerned about and that is where he tells us that in the nine-months period the rates will be collected in two stages but that two-thirds will be sought on demand and one-third on the 1st October, 1974. It is true to say that many ratepayers do not pay rates until the months of February or March. Although this may be a bad practice, it has existed for many years. This has existed possibly because the rate collector has sufficient rates collected to earn his bonuses and has left certain ratepayers until the end of the financial year.

I have often wondered if a discount system for rates could be introduced and in this way encourage ratepayers to pay their rates at an earlier date. For these people in particular this requirement of the Minister could be a hardship because next month they will pay either one or two moieties in the present financial year and in the month of May or June they will be asked to pay two-thirds of their demand for the coming financial year. In the month of December they will be required to pay the balance so that in this year alone these people will have to pay two complete rate demands. It could be argued that this is their own fault but in many cases this situation has arisen as a result of the rate collectors themselves. I hope the Government's undertaking will be lived up to in the way that they promised. Unfortunately, Fianna Fáil were beaten in the last election. If we had been re-elected this problem would not have arisen.

Another one would.

I cannot understand that Cork accent. Fianna Fáil are committed to abolishing rates on private property. Now the Irish people will have to wait maybe another year——

It is a bit late in the day.

Who thought up that one?

Better late than never. The Irish people will have to wait maybe another year until we get back into office and give them the freedom from rates they want and that they are entitled to. There is one question I should like to ask the Minister. How does this affect tenants in local authority houses? If the rates are calculated on a nine-months basis, will the situation not arise that from 1st April the weekly rates paid with the rent will be increased considerably as a result of this? I know that the full rate struck will be based on a nine-months figure. Nevertheless, in the first nine months it could have the effect of a weekly increase in rates and cause hardship to tenants in local authority houses. When the Minister is replying I should like him to explain that.

I am grateful to the House for the manner in which they have commented upon the Bill and I shall endeavour to answer some of the queries raised.

Senator Lenihan referred to getting rid of the procedure which dated back to the last century. In fact, what we are doing is getting rid of a procedure which dates back to the 16th century. People are often amazed and bewildered that we have a tax year from 6th April to the 5th April in the following year, which is an oddity. The reason we have that oddity is because we were, as we know, at one time under British rule and they apparently had some suspicion of Popish practices. When Pope Gregory reformed the calendar in 1582 it took the British Exchequer 170 years to overcome the suspicion of Popish practices and, accordingly, some time elapsed and there had been some movement of the moon and days in between and we ended up with that peculiar tax year of 6th April to 5th April of the following year.

It was only statutory form in the last century.

Yes. The Exchequer financial year however and the local financial year do not correspond with the tax year. They operate from 1st April to 31st of the following March, which is another peculiarity. We would like if we could do so to bring the tax year and the financial year into line, but there are multitudinous administrative and technical difficulties in the way of doing this. We are making a study in depth of them and we would hope that in the not too distant future we would have both the tax year and the financial year in line. In the meantime we are proceeding towards the calendar year for the financial year and the local financial year. This will not involve any disruption.

Senator Russell posed this question. He wanted us to consider whether there might be any disruption in our business relationships with Britain. There should be no disruption whatsoever because of course the ordinary commercial relations are conducted without regard to the business of the State or still less the concern of the tax collector or the worries of a tax inspector. Business will go on as heretofore.

The suggestion was made by Senator Lenihan that we might get everybody in the business community to operate on the calendar year. It might, in fact, be disadvantageous if everyone was to go on to the calendar year. It certainly would not be welcomed by the accountancy profession. Anybody who has ever submitted their business problems to the care of that very distinguished profession must already have enough concern about the long delays which can sometimes occur due to the tremendous peaks of work they have at different times of the year. At least under the present system, where they are free to operate under any year that they wish in any particular business from February to February or from July to July, it spreads out the work; but if everybody was obliged to conduct all his accounts on a calendar year basis you would have a tremendous glut of work at the end of the calendar year and at the commencement of the following year. There would also be a huge valley in between. It is probably better to have this freedom for business concerns and individuals to manage their own affairs on whatever annual basis or whatever period they want themselves. There is certainly a great deal to be said for the State in bringing their own financial year into the calendar year because as I said in my opening remarks, much of the statistics upon which we base our decisions as a State are collected on a calendar year basis. It is better that we should make our decisions on the most upto-date information.

There is another reason which impelled me, when I was in Opposition, to urge upon the then Government to adopt the calendar year, and it was one which I was only too delighted to translate into action when the Ministerial responsibility was put on my shoulders. I am sure I will get a responsive note from the Seanad when I say that it is wholly undesirable that we should be discussing the State's financial business in the hot days of summer when Senators and Members of the Dáil are anxious to go on vacation. By changing the financial year to earlier in the year and by having our budget in January or February we should be able to get rid of the financial business long before the temptation to get out into the heat and sun. That should also enable the Seanad to get away to an earlier vacation than has been possible in the past.

Can the Minister guarantee that there will be more sun?

He might even do that.

I am not making any guarantees like that.

Senator Russell also posed the question as to whether our financial relationship with Britain might be upset were a change of Government to occur in Britain and a Government take office in Westminster which would seek to renegotiate the terms of Britain's association with the EEC. I would not like to look into that crystal ball and come out with an answer at this stage. I have sufficient practical political experience to forecast that whatever Mr. Harold Wilson might say in Opposition, he might not find it so easy in Government to renegotiate the terms. Anybody who is in the EEC would have a great deal more to lose by leaving it than by staying in it. That is a reality which affects Britain just as much as it affects this country. Even if Britain were to succeed in renegotiating her terms or even if she did succeed in leaving it, it would be in Ireland's best interests to stay within the EEC. If such a situation did arise I am sure the EEC would realise Ireland's particular difficulty. We have no doubt that the overall terms which would be worked out between ourselves and the EEC would be considerably to our advantage. Briefly, I would say that we would not be particularly concerned if Britain did leave the EEC, but practically I do not think it is on.

Would your partners have a different view?

No. We are all partners in Government. We all have the one view.

The only danger would be a change of Government and that will not happen.

Senator Halligan asked me whether the Government's policy in relation to the relief of rates by transferring the housing and health charges from the rates to the Central Exchequer for the nine-months period would be in keeping with the pattern of rates transfer which we announced last year.

His remarks were hardly relevant.

I am sure Senator Lenihan would not want to say that about Senator McGlinchey's remarks also, but Senator McGlinchey also posed the question and I am only too happy to oblige. It is part of the policy and natural demeanour of the members of this Government to oblige people with the maximum information.

The Minister for Finance might refrain from this nonsense.

There is every reason why the Minister for Finance should be interested in this because the Minister for Finance is taking up the bill. When we have completed the transfer of this liability from the rates to the Central Exchequer the Minister for Finance will be carrying £75 million extra on the Central Exchequer which he would not be carrying if we had not won the last general election.

The taxpayer will be carrying it, not the Minister.

I am very interested in the interjection of Senator Yeats because this brings me to the other point made by Senator McGlinchey when he said that the Fianna Fáil Party had a policy to abolish rates on private property. He did not finish the sentence because he should have added "and replace them with a new system of property taxation levied by central Government without regard to local needs and irrespective of local wants or the services which the local people would require."

There is a Bill before us. I would trust that you, Sir, would keep the Minister in order.

The Chair has listened to remarks from Senators and from the Minister in regard to this and considers that the matters are probably relevant. He would not wish for a prolonged debate in detail on these aspects but would hesitate in treating them as being completely out of order.

A point having been made, there is no need to make it again. It is important that the Fianna Fáil Party would not run out of breath when they are talking about abolishing rates on private property. They should tell the people that their plan would be to replace it with a central property tax.

In regard to the millions being spent on health in this nine months, would the Minister give an undertaking that this year they would not make this money up by cutting the Estimates for the health boards?

That is not so.

This is so. The estimate for the North-Western Health Board alone was cut by £1 million and that for every other health board in the country was cut also.

It is so totally irresponsible that it is not worth talking of.

Perhaps Senators are speaking with very limited experience of local authorities. I was a member of a local authority for many years and I was also a member and a chairman of a health authority. I do not think this is relevant to the debate but I am prepared to deal with it if Senator McGlinchey wants enlightenment.

The Chair would prefer to hear the Minister on points that are related more directly to the Bill.

So would we. He is spending more time on Fianna Fáil policy than on the so-called policy they have themselves.

Get on with the job.

The Minister on the Bill without interruption.

(Interruptions.)

If Senators do not want information they should not pose questions but if they pose the questions and do not like the answers they are getting it is hardly fair of them to protest.

Could I ask the Minister a simple question because——

Perhaps the Senator would allow the Minister to reply.

I was chairman of the North-Western Health Board last year when the Minister's Government cut their estimate by £1 million pounds and that is how he got the money to relieve the ratepayers.

That is untrue and the Senator knows it. Perhaps we could deal with the nine-month period that will come into operation by virtue of the passing of this Bill. My original statement said, and I repeat, that we intend that the nine-month period would be a period which would have its own budget, its own estimates and its own revenue and that it would be comparable to threequarters of a 12-month period, that is to say, nine months; and when I said that our patern of the relief of local rates was similar to that of last year, I meant just that. The rates will carry 37½ per cent of the 1972-73 level in respect of health and housing subsidies.

If we were going into a 12-month period now the rates would be required to pay only 50 per cent of that portion of the 1972-73 rate which was attributable to the subsidies on health services and housing. Last year the local rates carried 75 per cent and the Exchequer carried 25 per cent. If it were a 12-month period we were going into the local rates would carry 50 per cent and the Exchequer would carry 50 per cent and you would continue the reduction at that rate until the local rates were all relieved. But as we are going into a nine-months period the rates are being asked to carry during that nine-months period only threequarters of 50 per cent, which is 37½ per cent.

We have said and we have urged upon local authorities—the elected representatives and their officials— through discussions that are taking place between the Department of Local Government and the local authorities that they should ensure that nobody is any better off or anybody any worse off as a result of this change, be they an institution, or an authority, or an individual. There is no reason why anybody should be worse off or indeed why anybody should be better off. We want the transition to take place as smoothly as possible. Now we must not fear change in this country. It is perhaps because we had for so long administrations which did fear change that we did not make the kind of changes which were necessary. During the course of any change there will probably be a little bit of upset and a bit of misunderstanding. That is inevitable in the course of change in an imperfect society, but we will do everything within our power to ensure that the upset is as small as possible and we do not think there should be any.

On Senator McGlinchey's point about the pressure which might be applied to people to ensure payment of their total rates liability during the nine-months period, I just want to say this. Rent and rates collectors have discretion. They exercise it discreetly and with sympathy and in a humanitarian way. I have no reason to anticipate that they will be any different this year. If any local representative believes there is going to be any undue pressure or suspects that any undue pressure has been applied on the ratepayer then it is up to that person to bring it to the notice of his own local authority and have the matter put right.

We will not be collecting the full year's rates in the nine-months period but only nine-months rates during that period. The two-thirds which will become payable on demand is equivalent to half of a full year's rates because two-thirds of nine months is six months and half of 12 months would be six months. As everybody knows, that is payable on demand; but we equally well know it is not always paid promptly even by the most outstanding of citizens. But of course when they do not pay promptly it means that the local authority, as every member of a local authority knows, has to borrow the money at pretty high rates of interest nowadays in order to meet the shortfall until such time as rates come in. Therefore, if people paid their rates punctually all local authorities could save a substantial amount—it might be from as much as 5p to 25p in the £—which at present has to be paid in high interest charges to meet the shortfall pending receipt of rates. But that is just the general approach and I do not think there should be any difference this year in the approach or attitude of rate collectors.

The second portion which they will be asked to pay, which as in all years is due on the 1st October, will this year be only half of what they would normally be called upon to pay on the 1st October, because on the 1st October every year they are asked to pay for the balance of six months. In this year they will be asked to pay only for three months. The majority of people pay the second moiety of their rates before the 31st December, so those people will this year be in a much better position. They will have to pay only one-quarter of the normal annual rate before the 31st December instead of as in the past having to pay half of it. In fact we are lightening the burden on people in the year 1974 and it should on that account be a year of relief.

Now it is up to every local authority to co-operate with the central Government and with their own local people in ensuring this change goes through smoothly. We have no reason to anticipate that there will be any particular difficulties, but if somebody is aware of them and if they bring them to the notice of the Minister for Local Government or if they are in my field of responsibility as manager of the Central Exchequer, I can assure you that you will find a great readiness on our part to smooth the difficulties. We do not anticipate them but if they should arise we are there to help to smooth them.

Question put and agreed to.
Agreed to take remaining Stages today.
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