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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 15 Apr 1981

Vol. 95 No. 16

Report of the Select Committee on Statutory Instruments: Motion.

I move:

That Seanad Éireann takes note of the First Report of the Select Committee on Statutory Instruments.

I thank the Leader of the House and the Government Chief Whip for affording time to debate this motion so soon after the report was presented to the Seanad.

It is particularly important, in that the Select Committee have not reported for ten years. I will refer to the background and to the importance of this committee. Much of our legislation nowadays comes by way of statutory instruments which are made under legislation passed by the Oireachtas and the Select Committee on Statutory Instruments of this House was set up in the early days of the State to oversee the form and content and the method of presentation of statutory instruments, and it has brought order where formerly chaos reigned. The fact that the statutory instruments are now presented in a uniform manner and obey certain conventions is mainly due to the work of the Select Committee. There is no corresponding committee in the other House, and so the importance of the work of this committee is underlined. If one looks at the operations of previous committees one should pay tribute to two former distinguished chairmen, the late George O'Brien and W. A. W. Sheldon, who, by their efforts, established the precedents under which the Select Committee now operate.

The fact that there has not been a report for ten years is due to two things in the main, first, the lack of staffing for the committee's work and, second it must be acknowledged a certain lack of drive by Members of this House. A great deal of work is required to service the committee as the Members of the House will see from the report. Over 300 statutory instruments were considered during the period of the operation of this committee so far. Each one takes a great deal of effort, time and expertise. On behalf of the committee, I pay tribute to the staff member who carried out most of the work for her expertise and attention to the work of the committee.

The report that was presented to each Member of the House does not contain in full the appendices which deal with the correspondence between the Select Committee and the instrument-making bodies. When the committee feel that, for some reason or other, the attention of Seanad Éireann should be drawn to an instrument, before they do so they enter into correspondence with the instrument-making body, Department or other authority. The correspondence can often be long and detailed and the practice of the committee is to ask the instrument-making body for an explanation of the apparent deviation from procedure. The full report plus appendices comes to over 100 pages. So we felt that, perhaps, we would spare every Member of the House the appendices. They are available should anyone wish to consult them.

During the period in which the committee operated, 333 statutory instruments were examined of which 297 did not call for comment. The grounds on which the instruments can be examined are set out in page 1 of the report under the heading Resolutions Reference and no instruments are being brought to the attention of the House under the first three grounds. Under ground No. 4 that there was a delay in laying the instrument after it was made, twenty-one statutory instruments are brought to the attention of the House. I would like to quote from the report of the previous committee which considered this defect.

‘Regulations shall be laid before each House of the Oireachtas as soon as may be after they are made and, if a resolution annulling the regulations is passed by either House within the next twenty-one days on which that House has sat after the regulations have been laid before it, the regulations shall be annulled accordingly, but without prejudice to the validity of anything previously done thereunder'. Where this provision applies, a member of Seanad Éireann may put down a motion for annulment, only after the instrument has been laid, although the instrument will have been in force from the date of making. It follows that the element of control retained by the Oireachtas depends, for its effectiveness, on the laying of instruments within the shortest possible period after making.

To state the extreme case, it is possible to have an instrument made, under which irrevocable action may be taken, before the Oireachtas will have had an opportunity of considering the instrument.

Previous Select Committees have taken the view that a period of seven days between the making and the laying of an instrument is excessive and they have directed the attention of the Seanad to any instrument which has shown a gap of more than seven days between the making and laying of the instrument. There are 21 instruments which fell into this category.

On ground (v) "That for any special reason its form or purport calls for elucidation", five instruments are brought to the attention of the House, due to the fact that there is not an explanatory memorandum, which does not form a legal part of the instrument but which, particularly in the case of complex and technical instruments, sets forth in laymen's terms what the instrument actually means. The omission of these explanatory notes was due to oversights by the Department or the instrument-making authority concerned. On a previous occasion the Select Committee recommended, and the Minister for Finance issued the recommendation to all instrument-making bodies, that such an explanatory note should be added at the end of each instrument. Five instruments failed to have an explanatory note and we direct the attention of the House to this.

For another reason, the attestation of the schedules which appear in connection with certain instruments, five instruments are to be noted. In these instruments the schedules appear below the signature of the Minister involved in giving his attestation. While the schedules are legal parts of the instrument, previous Select Committees have taken the view that the Minister's signature should appear underneath the schedule and in no case above the schedule concerned. Five such instruments are brought to the attention of the House. In the case of one instrument where the attestation signature of a consenting Minister, in this case the Minister for Finance, is required, it was felt that the Minister's signature should appear on the instrument as well as the signature of the Minister by whose Department the instrument was issued. This does not invalidate the legality of the instrument but it has been felt by previous Select Committees that it would be best that all the signatures of all the Ministers involved should appear on the instruments.

In the case of three instruments the committee feel that there should have been more direct citation of statutory authority. The instruments are made under certain Acts of the Oireachtas and the Select Committee feel that the actual citation of the specific Acts under which the instruments are made should be given in every instrument.

Previous Select Committees have taken the view that blanket phrases of citations should always be avoided. The phrase which has caught our eye is "any and every power in this behalf enabling". We take the view of previous Select Comtees that such phrases should be avoided and specific citations to specific Acts of the Oireachtas should be accurately given in every single instrument. The three instruments involved were made by the Incorporated Law Society in one case and the Circuit Court Rules Committee in two cases. The Incorporated Law Society have agreed with our recommendation that they discontinue the use of such blanket phrases. Regrettably the Circuit Court Rules Committee have not yet agreed with the committee's recommendation. They point out that this phrase has been used previously and they do not see why it should not be used again. The committee do not take this view and do not believe that bad practice should necessarily be followed and they intend to pursue the matter with the Circuit Court Rules Committee. They wish to draw the attention of the House to three statutory instruments under this heading.

Finally, on ground (vi) the Select Committee consider that one particular instrument should be drawn to the attention of the House on the grounds of defective drafting. One might say that it is politically sensitive because it is Statutory Instrument No. 16 of the Broadcasting Authority Act 1960, (Section 31) Order, 1980 under which the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs can direct that spokesmen of certain organisations be restrained from broadcasting on RTE. The section which in the opinion of the Select Committee rendered the Statutory Instrument meaningless is as follows:

Radio Telefís Eireann is hereby directed to refrain from broadcasting any matter which is an interview or report of an interview, with a spokesman or with spokesmen for any other or more of the following organisations, namely,...

The offending word is "other". Of course the legality of the instrument derives not from the copy which is laid before the House. It derives from the actual instrument which is in the possession of the instrument-making body and the committee directed me as chairman to inspect the original. The original was found to be correct. The phrase is, of course, "any one or more" and that was the phrase in the original. The instrument itself was correct but the committee direct the attention of the Seanad to this particular instrument on the grounds that the Department of Posts and Telegraphs failed in their duty to lay an accurate copy before the Houses of the Oireachtas.

I second this motion. It is important that committees set up by Parliament should submit reports to Parliament and have them debated there. The usefulness of such committees has been seen in the reports of committees like the Joint Committee on State-Sponsored Bodies and the very interesting and useful debates we have had on these reports.

This committee in three years dealt with 333 statutory instruments. Twenty-one instruments were found to infringe the fourth resolution of the committee's reference, that is, there appears to have been unjustifiable delay either in laying the statutory instruments before Seanad Éireann or in publication. On inquiry, the processing of these documents appeared to have caused delays and the committee considered that the instructions regarding the processing of statutory instruments should be drawn to the attention of all staff members of government Departments or anyone else likely to be involved in the processing of these instruments. The system should not grind to a halt because the civil servant in charge of processing statutory instruments in any Department is absent.

Another matter which concerned the committee was the absence of an explanatory memorandum in five statutory instruments. The correct attestation of schedules of certain statutory instruments was a matter to which the committee felt obliged to draw to the attention of certain Government Departments, as was the citation of the statutory authority under which the instrument was made in certain cases. In this regard the committee deplored the use of such phrases, for example "as each and every power in this behalf enabling" as being vague, unsuitable and far beyond the terms of reference under which statutory instruments are drawn up.

I would like to draw the attention of the House in particular to the second resolution of reference of the committee—that the special attention of Seanad Éirann should be drawn to a statutory instrument on the following grounds: that it appears to make some unusual or unexpected use of the powers conferred by the statute under which it is made. It must be the concern of the House that the thrust and meaning of the statutes passed in the House by the elected representatives should not be changed by the civil service. We are governed by the democratic process, by laws which are drafted, debated, amended and finally passed in both Houses of the Oireachtas. It is undesirable, therefore, that we should be governed by ministerial order or that a Minister should, in making a ministerial order, exercise powers in excess of those conferred by statute. The committee must be held to have a watch-dog function, to hold a watching brief, on behalf of the Members of the House to ensure that the meaning of the laws passed lose nothing, and gain nothing, by the subsequent passage of statutory instruments.

I would like to thank the secretary of the committee for the work she has done in the three years since the committee were set up. The work required to process the operations of the committee is enormous. I believe that the Select Committee in the House of Commons have the services of two senior counsel and a regular staff. If we are to do our job properly we would need a very much expanded staff. I would also like to compliment Senator West under whose able-chairmanship the committee functioned for the last three years.

Os rud é gur ball den choiste mé féin is dócha gur ceart dom focal nó dhó a rá.

Instruments—be they the instruments peculiar to trade or profession, be they surgical instruments or any other sort of instruments—are very important. No matter how good a tradesman or a craftsman is, no matter what his skills, or how intelligent he is, unless his instruments are correct the results will be unsatisfatory. There must be an edge and a precision in all these tools and we must have an edge and a precision in our statutory instruments.

Details are available in the documents provided in the House of little things that were incorrect, badly phrased, or messed up through inaccuracies in typing or reprinting, which could have led to very difficult situations under certain circumstances. Thankfully that did not happen. As a committee we took every precaution to see that everything was as it should be, and it is a source of pride to all that of the 333 statutory instruments we inspected, only 10 per cent were found to be defective in some way, and some only very slightly defective. I take this opportunity to pay a tribute to the chairman, Senator West, every member of the committee and the staff who worked, guided and helped us. They deserve the very highest commendation. I hope we will continue the good work we have begun.

As a Senator who was not on the committee, may I, at this mellow stage in today's proceedings, congratulate the chairman and the members of the committee. I had not understood how important this item was on the order of Business and, therefore, retrospectively I express my thanks to Senator West for extending the time of the previous motion.

At first glance this is not terribly exciting subject matter, but after consideration I see it is extremely important. I would like to express my appreciation for the work of the Select Committee and particularly to refer to the detective work in clarifying the garbled phrase in the notorious section 31. I would like to make two brief comments. First, is there something significant in the fact that the Department of Social Welfare seem to be a particularly serious offender in being responsible for delays? Second, the tone of the letter from the registrar of the Dublin Circuit Court strikes me as what used to be called in days of trial of heretics definitely contumax. Is that also the impression of the committee? Has the registrar cocked a snook at the committee? What is the secret?

I would like to congratulate the chairman and members of the committee for their very valuable and thorough report. I was on this committee many years age when Senator George O'Brien was the chairman. Over a number of years we managed to persuade the various Departments to be more careful in issuing statutory instruments. It did take some years, but gradually we persuaded them to depart from their slipshod ways and in the end our efforts were so successful that we became more of less redundant and for a number of years the committee did not meet regularly.

This report shows that some of those bad habits have been reasserting themselves. It shows that a number of Departments have been issuing statutory instruments which are not in compliance with the terms of reference drawn up by the committee. I am sure that, having regard to the work of the committee for the past two or three years, the Departments once again will be watching very carefully to ensure that their statutory instruments are in compliance with the Acts under which they are made. I am very glad the committee have been meeting again and going through these statutory instruments. Their report is a very valuable one, and all the Members of the House appreciate the hard work that has gone into it.

I would like to thank the Members who contributed and paid us such nice tributes, even though in some cases we patted ourselves on the back. I would also like to reply to the two queries raised by Senator Murphy. We noted that the Department of Social Welfare seemed to have a defective system for presenting the instruments and we pointed this out in correspondence. We hope that defect will now be remedied. The committee were not happy with the correspondence with the Circuit Court Rules Committee and we intend to continue that correspondence and, hopefully, persuade them to view the use of blanket phrases of citation in the same way as we do.

Question put and agreed to.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I wish Members a happy and holy Easter.

The Seanad adjourned at 9 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 29 April 1981.

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