Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 12 Jul 1988

Vol. 120 No. 15

Broadcasting of Seanad Proceedings: Motion.

Mr. Lanigan

I move:

That, the resolution of the House of the 8th July, 1987 providing for the edited broadcasting of the proceedings of the Seanad and Oireachtas Committees by Radio Telefís Éireann be extended for a further period of twelve months.

The purpose of this motion is to allow RTE to continue the arrangements for radio boadcasting for a further year. Pending an overall review by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, it is intended that these arrangements will be put on a more permanent basis within the next year.

Mr. W. Ryan

I am not objecting to Item No. 1 but it would be no harm if we had a look at progress — or should I say lack of progress — in connection with this House and RTE in the year which has just passed. What has prompted me to raise this matter is that I received a phone call recently from a friend, who in the course of the conversation, asked: "Does the Seanad only sit when the Dáil is adjourned?" When I asked him what he meant he said he was listening last week to "Today in the Oireachtas" and the Seanad got great publicity, but he had never heard that before. I had to agree that that is the position because on a Thursday night, usually on my way home from here, I listen to that programme and rarely, if ever, does it give the Seanad a mention. It is all about what happened in the Dáil. The only time the Seanad is mentioned is when the announcer in conclusion says, "The Dáil will meet again on Tuesday and the Seanad on Wednesday." I am not complaining about the publicity I receive, because I make very few contributions. Indeed if you want to have your name mentioned on RTE, you have to criticise a speech made by a bishop, or you might make some remark about the British Army.

When RTE decided they would like to come into the Houses and make live programmes, this was the first House they approached. As far as I am aware, at that time the Dáil was not too keen on allowing them in. The Committee on Procedure and Privileges had discussions with them ranging over 12 months and eventually we agreed, but we were forgotten in a very short time when the Dáil took over. I would like to make it very clear that I am not blaming any of the reporters in this House, either from the media or from RTE. I am quite sure they give their reports to their editors and that is where the harm is really done. Anything said here is not considered worth publishing or transmitting.

This House should get more publicity than it ever got before simply because so many people, especially one parliamentary political party, say that it should be abolished. We are coming towards the end of this session. Business has increased considerably in the past two years. This is our 49th sitting day and, if we sit tomorrow, it will be the 50th, an all-time record for this House. We have sat long hours. In comparison with the Dáil, we will have sat 50 days by tomorrow and in that period the Dáil sat 63 days — and we get half their salary. We passed 35 Bills this year and 14 Private Members' motions but that probably will not be mentioned anywhere. The Committee on Procedure and Privileges should have another meeting with RTE in the very near future to see that this House gets more publicity in the coming session.

Mr. Ferris

I support the motion moved by the Leader of the House to continue the provision whereby RTE have the facility to broadcast the proceedings of this House.

As Senator Ryan said, ours was the first Committee on Procedure and Privileges of the Oireachtas to suggest that it was appropriate that the public should have an opportunity to listen directly to the contributions of Members. Afterwards the other House condescended to agree with us and it was as a result of our initiative that the facilities were given. The committee also agreed that RTE television should be given the opportunity to broadcast what happens in this House.

It is appropriate that the public should know what their public representatives are doing. On balance, we do all right but certainly at the weekend this House does not get a fair mention; the other House is predominant. Generally speaking, in the evening time, the coverage of this House gets a proportion of space and there is only a limited time available to RTE to broadcast it.

If we agree that we should get a fair balance, let us talk to RTE to make sure that the balance at least is more visible in the future. The concept is right. We agree that RTE have a job to do in a balanced way and that they try to do it. It is within the control of editors and other people in RTE to decide what amount is covered. Other programmes on RTE, with no responsibility to broadcast what happens here, should at least mention the fact that we are sitting. At the end of "Morning Ireland" when they tell the listening public what is on today, they mention the Dáil, meetings of a countrywomen's association or a trade union and a meeting of protestors somewhere else but they forget to mention that the Seanad is sitting.

When the day of the abolition of the House comes — and that will mean the abolition of the Constitution — we will be able to fight our corner with any of the political groupings who feel that, because they cannot elect anybody to this House, it should be abolished with which I do not agree.

Mr. McGowan

I support the motion that RTE should be granted facilities to continue to report the proceedings of the House as mentioned by other speakers. My observations are very simple and clear. You have to sensationalise something to be mentioned on RTE. Some people here are very clever — I single out the Independents — and get more than their fair share although I am not being personal or vindictive.

Mr. Ross

Rubbish.

Mr. McGowan

The Independents get more than 50 per cent of all the reporting.

Mr. Norris

Perhaps because they make more than 50 per cent of the contribution.

Mr. McGowan

The tonnage might not represent the quality. I support the motion and I also ask the Leader of the House when the matter is being reviewed by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to include and insert after "Radio Telefís Éireann""and by any other legally established broadcasting authority" which would mean more healthy broadcasting and reporting of the Seanad.

Mr. J. O'Toole

Listening to what Senator McGowan said about the Independent benches, it should be said that on a number of occasions recently all six Independent Senators contributed to all the debates. Certainly their contributions stand up to scrutiny. There are rows on the Order of Business day in day out — the Leader of the House seems to get confused when we do not have a row and we should look after him in future on that issue — because we have tried time and time again to make this House respond to topical issues. Every time we do that there are howls of protest from the other side of the House who refuse to discuss such matters which are topical and newsworthy. We cannot create news by just talking.

It is quite important that the Order of Business should reflect topicality. We have proposed to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, as has the Leader of the Fine Gael group, that an hour should be laid aside in this House every day to deal with topical matters, which would be far more newsworthy. I did not notice that the Independent benches got such an amount or percentage of publicity.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

That hardly arises.

Mr. J. O'Toole

It is very difficult to get any sort of representation when one is an Independent. We are six Independents so we should be compared in that sense.

The broadcasting of "Today in the Oireachtas" in the middle of a light entertainment programme on RTE at the moment might be considered very appropriate by some although others might find it somewhat incongruous — I am one of the latter — as it does not do anything for the programme makers or for the quality of the contributions in the context in which it is now being broadcast.

The question of seeking publicity needs to be looked at by Members of the House particularly Members of the Government party. There is a great dichotomy between people standing up and saying that this House is not getting publicity and then saying that to get publicity we must make ourselves very publicity conscious. Members of the Government party feel that there should be a higher profile for the House, then let us take on the issues.

We are still looking at the debate on Anglo-Irish affairs which we were guaranteed would be dealt with. We were given a guarantee by the other House that Middle Eastern affairs would be dealt with. We have a long list on the walls over in our office of the commitments given and broken or not responded to by the Leader of the House. The programme makers in RTE are doing their very best and we should endeavour to co-operate with them when ordering business to discuss topical subjects.

Finally, I totally support the comments made by Senator Ryan on the business going through in this House because legislation is discussed in depth only in this House. The other House do not know how to deal with legislation as we have seen on four occasions in the past fortnight when items which they passed in half an hour, a quarter of an hour or an hour, were found to be completely and utterly flawed.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

It is unusual to comment on what goes on in the other House.

Mr. J. O'Toole

Indeed it is, but we need to break the mould in order to deal with this topic. In the main, I agree with Senator Ryan's comments on legislation and motions but we certainly also need to put "our own House in order".

Mr. McEllistrim

I welcome the fact that we are considering extending broadcasting the proceedings of the Seanad for another 12 months. Since the proceedings of both the Dáil and the Seanad have been broadcast on Radio Éireann I have noticed that a great interest has been taken by my constituents. It is amazing that they listen almost every night the proceedings are broadcast. I think it is very educational for the public to hear what is discussed both in the Dáil and in the Seanad. I will make one request, that is, that they should consider extending the time for the broadcasting of the proceedings of the Dáil and the Seanad. This would be welcomed by the general public, especially as they have taken such an interest in these broadcasts. I am delighted the broadcasting of the proceedings of the Houses is being extended for another 12 months.

Mrs. Fennell

I support this motion by the Leader of the House to extend broadcasting of the proceedings of both Houses for another year. Why just another 12 months? Why should it not be for an indeterminate time? We will never go back to the time when the proceedings of both Houses are not broadcast on radio and, hopefully, on television. Anything that makes politics relevant is good and should be continued and expanded. I do not hear the Oireachtas reports every day, but I think they are not as bad as they are painted. Given the time we are sitting and business we are dealing with, I think the House gets a fair coverage. It is no worse than the coverage we get in the newspapers. One of the irritating things I find is that, although a number of important Bills are introduced in this House, they seem to be discovered by the media only when they go to the Dáil. That is a great pity because, having been in both Houses, I consider that the treatment important Bills, such as the Adoption Bill and the Status of Children Bill, get here is far better than in the other House. It is clear that issues are dealt with on their merits, not on a partisan basis in this House.

I support this motion and hope there will be an extension of broadcasting and listening time because it is very important to make people realise that what happens here is relevant to their lives.

Professor Hillery

I too support the motion and I want to make two points briefly. The first has to do with balance. Clearly, the allocation of time between the Dáil and Seanad in terms of coverage is something that might well be scrutinised by RTE, but more important, one of our main concerns before the introduction of radio broadcasting was whether there would be adequate editorial balance. I am very happy to say that has occurred. A very professional, fair approach is adopted to the editing of the proceedings. Furthermore, it is exceptionally well presented.

The second point has to do with the times of the broadcast. The evening time in particular might be looked at because many people do not have the opportunity to listen to radio at the present broadcasting time. Perhaps one way of getting over the allocation of time between the Dáil and Seanad would be to extend the broadcasting time.

Mr. Ross

There are two problems here. I would like to reply to one of the points raised by Senator McGowan. One of the main reasons the proceedings of the Seanad are not covered is that the subjects we discuss are not of such great interest as the subjects in the Dáil, and we refuse to discuss a great many subjects of public interest. One of those subjects is Anglo-Irish relations. Were we to discuss such an issue, as promised by the Leader of the House, there is very little doubt that we would get extremely good coverage on RTE. I do think we should hear complaints from the Government benches about not getting coverage when they put a gag on their Members on a particular subject. We do not get coverage because the Government will not give us interesting things to discuss.

The second point is directly in reply to Senator McGowan. I am sick and tired of Senator McGowan and other Members on the Government benches accusing the Independents of sensationalising things and looking for publicity. We are. He is dead right. I welcome publicity on the subjects I raise in this House; I want publicity on those subjects; I want to annoy the Government; and I want a response from the Government. If the Government find those particular subjects uncomfortable or awkward, I welcome that. Senator McGowan is the epitome of that because he is particularly sensitive on the subjects which attract media publicity. It is those subjects we should be discussing, not avoiding. The more publicity I get the better. Let us get that straight.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Will the Senator come back to the narrow motion which is dealing purely with RTE——

Mr. Ross

It was broadened by the Government benches and I welcome that. I do not think we can dictate to RTE. I do not think we can tell RTE how much they can cover of the Seanad and the Dáil. I would say to the Government benches, that they will cover us half and half if we provide them with the material. If the Government continue to be silent and to avoid those issues in which the media is interested, which is what they do, and leave it to us, we will get the publicity and they will not.

Mr. Norris

This is, as you mentioned, a narrow motion simply providing for an extension by a period of 12 months for the broadcasting facilities here. I welcome this motion. It is particularly important while we are sitting in this Chamber and when public access to the Seanad is limited. Those circumstances make it vitally important that the public have some degree of access to this House.

With regard to broadcasting the Oireachtas report, I believe this is balanced. I make a habit of listening to it, and not merely to hear the sound of my own voice occasionally. I am very glad Senator McGowan recognises the superior intelligence of the University Members and our disproportionately valuable contribution to the proceedings of this House.

The reporting on RTE radio is balanced. The items are mixed between the Dáil and Seanad, so it is not quite clear all the time if you have missed what is going to be said about the Seanad. I do agree with Senator McEllistrim and others that it wold be greatly appreciated if the time for reporting the proceedings of both Houses could be extended. However, I imagine RTE do a certain amount of research in terms of audience interest and it may well be that the great Irish public are less interested in our proceedings than we are, and anything that can make our proceedings more relevant is to be applauded.

I regret that there was not continuous live broadcasting here last week, for example, when the Government failed to take up Private Members' time despite the fact that there are a number of extremely important motions down in the names of individual Senators. The Irish people would have been most interested to learn that the Government side had absolutely nothing to contribute during a period of time that was allocated to them and that they then deprived——

(Interruptions.)

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

This is hardly relevant.

Mr. Norris

Perhaps it is not strictly relevant to this motion but I think with a certain degree of latitude, a Leas-Chathaoirligh, you can see that it would be relevant in some form.

I believe that this is to be welcomed. I look forward to the broadcasting of the proceedings of this House not only on radio but also on television.

Éamon de Buitléar

Just for the record I would like to point out that in this House there are Independent Senators and completely Independent Senators and the completely Independent Senators are on this side of the House. Níl ann ach gur mhaith liom an méid sin a rá ar eagla go mbeadh dul amú ar éinne sa Teach seo nó lasmuigh de. Go raibh maith agat.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I call on the Leader of the House, Senator Lanigan, to reply.

Mr. Lanigan

I am sure that RTE will be well able to look after their own affairs when they sit down and address themselves to what has been said here this morning but there are a number of things that I would like to say. First, I do not like the condescension of people like Senator Norris who speak about the superior intelligence of University Members. That is an insult to the people of Ireland.

Mr. Norris

I am accepting a tribute from Senator McGowan who said we were cleverer.

Mr. Lanigan

I would suggest that from the cocoon he lives in his items of interest might not be the items of interest that should be addressed in this House. I am talking about the people on the back-benches, including Senators Ross and O'Toole, who consider that what is of interest to them is of interest to the nation. What we are here to do is to ensure that legislation goes through.

Mr. Ross

That is all, is it?

Mr. Lanigan

This House has addressed itself to more legislation in the past session than has been done heretofore. We have also addressed ourselves to more items of public interest than any other Seanad. There are certain Senators here who think that they should each day raise what they call a topical matter. That is not what this House is here for and this side of the House will not accept their strictures just because we do not agree with what they say this House should be doing.

Mr. J. O'Toole

Do not be surprised if people do not find it newsworthy.

Mr. Lanigan

There have been a number of points made. The point was made by Senator McGowan that we should review this motion and also that of any other legally authorised broadcasting authority being allowed the privilege of coming into this House. That is a matter for the Committee on Procedures and Privileges and will be taken up by that committee.

On the question of the resolution only granting a further extension of 12 months, again, it has been determined by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges that this is the way we should go about things and until they change that rule the matter will come before the House every 12 months. Just in case anybody goes out of the House with the impression that the committee have agreed that RTE should come in here and be allowed to broadcast, may I just say that what was agreed was that there should be further investigation by them as to whether television should come in here or not. We should give due credit to RTE for the coverage they give to this House and the other House.

As far as the newspapers are concerned. I have to say that the coverage of this House by The Irish Times and by the Cork Examiner is excellent. Occasionally there is good coverage by the Irish Independent; I am afraid that there are reporters here from the Irish Independent who sit here day after day and they do not apparently get the support of their sub-editors when they send in their reports. I have again to say that the Irish Press group are disgraceful——

Mr. J. O'Toole

Your own paper.

Mr. Lanigan

The Irish Press group is disgraceful in its attitude towards this House. There seems to be a total lack of coverage and it must be deliberate policy in that newspaper that this House is not covered. The seeking of publicity is a matter for individual Members. They are not going to be allowed to get publicity here from me for their own particular interests.

On the programme slot, I would agree that there may be better times for both programmes but, having said that, from the number of people who come to Members of the Seanad and mention what has been said in that particular programme, it would appear that quite a number of people around the country find that the time slot for "Today in the Oireachtas" is good. There has been criticism of the time given to the Seanad compared with that given to reporting the proceedings of the Dáil. I would agree we should get more time. If the editorial staff have to cut us down to a very small slot, obviously it will be difficult to give a broad view of what happened on a particular day.

I recommend this motion to the House. The points raised will be put by me to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and I am sure that RTE will take notice of what has been said here today.

Question put and agreed to.