Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 13 Jun 1990

Vol. 125 No. 8

Adjournment Matter. - Ramming of Irish Trawlers.

Mr. H. Byrne

I am sharing time with my two colleagues, Senators D. Kiely and O'Donovan. First, I would like to thank the Cathaoirleach for the opportunity of raising this issue this evening.

The issue of ramming Irish trawlers has been raised at many levels. I understand it was raised in the European Parliament last Monday. On a personal basis, I felt the issue was of such magnitude and so relevant to this House that it should have been given greater priority here. However, I am grateful for small mercies. The Cathaoirleach was a colleague of mine in the Dáil for some time and would have heard me refer to the many dangers posed to our fishermen by activities of submarines underneath the sea. Here we have far more blatant piracy on the high seas from Spaniards who seem to think nothing of ramming Irish trawlers.

Incidents of ramming of Irish trawlers by Spaniards is certainly not new and has been happening now for many years but it has been particularly serious over the past four or five years. These incidents have been taking place about 40 to 50 miles west of Catstletownbere in lucrative fishing grounds well known for hake, monkfish and other fish. The Irish licensed trawlers were obviously heading for these grounds. The Spanish trawlers, steel hulled and twice the weight of the Irish ships, also congregate in this area. The Spaniards use long lines, 15 miles in length in some instances, and do not want any interference from any competition. If necessary they will protect their lines by ramming the Irish trawlers. What chance has a wooden hulled 120 foot trawler against 200 tonnes of steel with a grossly unscrupulous skipper and crew? There are well documented incidents of ramming of Irish trawlers, particularly over the last few weeks.

There are three types of Spanish vessels fishing in this area, all of which are illegal in one way or another. First, there are Spanish trawlers licensed by the EC to fish at certain periods of each month — maybe two days at a time — but who fish for the entire month. Indeed, this category has been charged and convicted for offences under this heading in the very recent past. The second category are Spanish re-registered trawlers, or flag of convenience vessels, who have been re-registered in Ireland, England, France or elsewhere, and which, in fact, is the category of trawler which rammed the Orion in the last incident. Thirdly, there is the Spanish trawler which is not registered, not licensed and has no rights whatsoever. These three categories are guilty of piracy of the worst type by threatening the lives and property of those who go about their daily business legally and without interference to anyone.

I would like to refer to the comment by a Sherkin publication which says that the Spaniards under the 1990 EC quota system for white fish are allowed to catch 19,355 tonnes in a twelve month period. The average annual landings for a typical Spanish trawler in the 110 foot or 130 foot length range operating off the Irish coast, is 360 tonnes. The average round trip for a trawler from Spain to Irish waters is 20 days or 18 trips yearly. On this basis the number of trawlers needed to catch the above tonnage would be 54 vessels fishing ten days every trip from Spain. This converted to total fishing days for the Spanish fleet in one year would be 10,000 days approximately. Therefore, from these figures the Spaniards can reach their quota in the first five months of 1990. They will be allocated at least the same amount of days monthly for the remaining months of the year, so the situation is that they will be allowed to take from these areas 27,000 tonnes over the quota which is deemed legal by the EC. This fish is valued at £70 million. According to the Spanish lists given to the EC, the average days spent by Spanish trawlers for a month as 12, whereas the actual number was 18 days. This adds up to illegally caught fish to the value of £30 million per annum. It is well known that there are unregistered Spanish trawlers fishing in these areas. The conservative estimate from a number of reliable sources is that there are 100 trawlers at any one time, which in tonnage is 36,000 tonnes per year, valued at £90 million. To conclude from this document, the figure for illegally caught fish by the Spaniards of £190 million of white fish is, therefore, a minimum estimate. This figure is greater than the total Irish landings for all species in any one year, including herring and mackerel.

Our protection vessels, of which we have seven — and may I point out that there are never more than four at sea at any one time for one reason or another — are not adequate to deal with this piracy or, as one Irish fisherman put it, an attempt at premeditated murder. The Spaniards are anxious to keep competition out at any cost. When the Navy bring an arrested skipper to shore, the fishing grounds are left without any protection, and any money that is lost in fines is quickly recouped by blatant disregard and flouting of the laws. The skipper is fined and the vessel is back to business straight away. Even though our Naval Service do an excellent job with the numbers they have, they just do not have the wherewithal to protect our fishermen in this situation.

I would say to the Minister this evening that the laws must be strengthened. Fines must make it prohibitive for these pirates to operate. We must adopt a much tougher attitude to these Spaniards. I would suggest that if the same vessel is caught fishing illegally twice within a six month period, the trawler in question and its gear should be confiscated. That is a serious charge, but this happens in Denmark where, if a trawler is caught twice within a limited period it is confiscated. It is only with an attitude like this that we will make any impression.

It should be known also that the vessels in question have been caught six times in the recent past. Oddly enough, the skipper is the only one who is affected. This vessel can steam off next morning with a new skipper on board. At present it is a laugh for the Spaniards, because even though their fines are in the region of £10,000 they are back the following day. The fact that they are back the following day is clear evidence that they just do not give a damn about the laws or about our own protection agents, the Navy.

My understanding was that when the last Naval protection vessel was built a helicopter pad was to be installed on board. This has not happened. I would ask the Minister what proposals he has in mind to provide such a facility and service. I am also led to believe that the Spanish authorities will not allow EC officials to inspect their books. Therefore, quotas mean absolutely nothing to them. On the other hand, the Irish are subjected to quota restrictions. The quotas are rigidly imposed by the national authorities, which is proper order. Because the Spaniards are fishing the area in question at will, quotas will, as a consequence, be reduced. The estimated tonnage will obviously have gone down. Therefore, the quota is reduced for the Irish fisherman. We are losing out on all fronts. The question must be asked whether we are going to make a serious attempt to prevent these incidents. They will certainly not go away. They are definitely on the increase. I believe we owe it to our fishermen to give them protection from this enemy. There are enough problems out there in natural forms, about which we can do very little. I would ask the Minister to spell out what his solution to this problem is, and to let our fishermen know we are concerned about their lives and livelihood and that they can have more confidence in their own industry.

It should be remembered also that there is no mechanism at present to deal with this despicable, arrogant and highly dangerous activity. The Navy can bring in the trawler and charge them with illegal fishing, but will do absolutely nothing regarding the ramming. This is a civil offence. It would be very difficult to find independent witnesses on the high seas. We are members of the EC. We are behaving as we should. Is this to be our reward?

Finally, I ask the Minister whether he has been in touch with the EC regarding these incidents? Can he tell us what the attitude of the Commission would be to the ramming of Irish trawlers off our own coast?

Mr. O'Donovan

I would also like to welcome the Minister here and to compliment my colleague, Senator Byrne, on some very factual points he has made and on the question he has raised. On a positive note, I would like to compliment the Minister and the Department of the Marine for sending the Naval vessels into the area in question, which is a short distance off the coastland where I was born. Since this has happened, the incidents have actually decreased. I was told by the fishermen in the Castletownbere area quite recently that over the last few days the incidents that have been referred to have now totally ceased. That is not to say that the matter can be taken lightly. The Naval patrol vessels have brought ashore a number of vessels. Yesterday four skippers were charged before the Cork Circuit Court by the State Solicitor for west Cork. Each was fined £1,000 and in most cases gear and fish to the value of up to £25,000 and indeed in some instances as much as £30,000, have been confiscated. I would, of course, concur with what Senator Byrne has said that this in itself is not sufficient and is certainly not a sufficient deterent, because in many instances the same skippers and the same vessels come back before the courts. I certainly urge the Minister to look for a massive increase on the fines to be imposed on these skippers and particularly on those who constantly and deliberately flout the law.

I also would like to remind the Minister, in a constructive fashion rather than being negative, that on a number of instances — and I think two were recorded in the recent acts of piracy off our coast — possibly because of the lack of patrol vessels the fish and the gear were transferred from an arrested trawler, and attempts have been made at that. I understand that we are in a situation here for which this Minister is not responsible This has been going on for the past two decades at least. I would go further and say that the problem is not purely confined to the Spaniards but it applies also to the Russians, the Norwegians and the other non-EC countries who rape and plunder the waters off our coastline. We have very rich white fishing grounds off our coast. I can go back a dozen years or 14 years, when my family were involved in herring fishing, when large Russian trawlers came in within sight of the coastline and took thousands of tons of herrings without being apprehended.

This problem is an ongoing one and the Minister has a very difficult task in hand. I would like to compliment him. Since coming into the Department of the Marine a few months ago he has made great strides. I think a breath of fresh air is blowing through the corridors of that Department, and I would like to compliment him on his work there. Nevertheless, I think some of the questions raised by my colleague, Senator Byrne, are very pertinent and I am now more or less convinced that, particularly in regard to our European waters, not our national waters, we need further assistance in the line of patrol vessels.

I must condemn utterly the incidents that happened off the west Cork coastline. I know the skippers of all of the vessels concerned. The Orion, mentioned by Senator Byrne, is at present in Baltimore boatyard. In that particular instance the ramming was so severe that the fact that there was no loss of life or serious injury was indeed a miracle. I am quite sure the Minister is aware of the gravity of the situation and I ask him to use all his endeavours, both nationally and through the EC, to try to cut out these acts of plunder and piracy off our coastline.

On a final note, I would like to congratulate Mr. Gene Fitzgerald, MEP, who has highlighted this matter a number of times in Europe, as well he may do because he serves the constituency of Munster, which has a large coastline.

This is not a problem of today; it has been ongoing and, unfortunately, because of the rammings it has been highlighted. It is something that must be addressed. I urge the Minister to do everything in his power to ensure that these incidents do not recur either this year or indeed next year and, if necessary, to seek the assistance of the European Commission.

Mr. D. Kiely

I will be brief. I too would like to welcome the Minister here and to thank him for taking this motion this evening and to thank Senator Hugh Byrne for raising the matter. Indeed, we are all very concerned and worried about any type of incident on the seas. As has been stated, it is hard enough to beat the elements besides trying to beat these enemies. While this was a Spanish incident, I am quite sure other countries in the EC would take the same type of action if they were put to it. I thought that in this day and age piracy at sea was completely finished with and that the days of Long John Silver and so on had long since gone.

Of course, as Senator O'Donovan stated the answer seems to be that our waters are so rich. I feel the Department of the Marine should assist with grants, perhaps in a bigger way, to try to get our own fishing fleet into a position to compete with our EC partners, who seem to be light years ahead of us, due to various reasons over the last 30 or 40 years. When the security vessels bring some of these perpetrators ashore the amount of stock and fishing gear confiscated and the fine imposed do not seem to deter these people. They just seem to go back to sea and continue as if nothing happened. There seem to be huge amounts of money being made from the wealth around our shores.

I was at a conference some years ago concerned with the development of the Cork-Kerry region. It was all about the fishing in the waters of the peripheral regions of the EC. Most of the fishermen will tell you that as soon as the weather is suitable the first place these people seem to hit for is the coast of Ireland because our fishing waters are so good. Our fishermen should be treated with due respect. Many people may say that we should have more patrol vessels, although perhaps many of our local fishermen might not agree with that. Many of them would prefer at times if our security vessels were tied up, but I think in general the Naval Service are doing a terrific job. They should be complimented and commended for what they have done to date in bringing these perpetrators ashore. As Senator Denis O'Sullivan stated earlier we had four cases yesterday in west Cork and I think that has to be noted. In addition, on the figures given by Senator Hugh Byrne — the 12 fishing days vis-à-vis the 18 fishing days — you are speaking in real terms of almost an extra three months in the year.

Again, I would like to congratulate the Minister on the speedy way in which he and his Department acted when this Spanish vessel actually attacked one of our own.

Minister for the Marine (Mr. Wilson)

I want first to express my appreciation for Senator Hugh Byrne, Senator O'Donovan and Senator Kiely for the concern and interest which prompted them to ask for this Adjournment debate. The Senators will recall that, in reply to a Private Notice Question in the Dáil on 23 May last, in relation to the recent incidents of aggressive behaviour by foreign registered vessels against Irish boats, I indicated that my Department and the Naval Service had mounted an intensive fisheries surveillance operation in the area off the south-west coast. The subsequent speedy arrest by the Navy on fishery-related offences — and I stress that — of seven foreign vessels allegedly involved in this interference and the civil actions which were mentioned by the Senators which also ensued have helped defuse a threatening situation and restored a considerable measure of order to current fishing activities in the area. There have been no further reported incidents apart from one which was recorded in the past 24 hours and which I have now asked the Naval Service to investigate with all possible speed.

I have no doubt that the intensive follow-up operations carried out by the Navy have acted as a major deterrent to further incidents of this kind. Of course, the court cases which were mentioned by Senator O'Donovan have also strengthened our case and the news, so to speak, has got back to various ports and harbours. A number of Navy boats, backed up by aerial reconnaissance and relevant onshore support, have been deployed for this purpose.

I want to say to Senator Byrne that the Naval vessel does exist equipped with a helicopter pad and that the Air Corps have been landing the helicopter on that boat and practising its new role as a surveillance unit in our whole surveillance area. The European Community is very concerned about this and are backing us in the most practical way by supplying us with grants for this purpose. Indeed, I may mention in passing that I have put in a strong application to the EC for further moneys for surveillance equipment, for boats and equipment for this purpose.

I want to make it quite clear once again — I want to express myself very clearly on this — that I will not tolerate interference with Irish fishing vessels going about their legitimate pursuits in Irish waters and I have taken very strong steps, which resulted in the court cases mentioned by the Senator, with this in view, to indicate to people that they cannot with impunity interfere with our fishermen fishing waters off our coast. No resources will be spared in preventing such incidents and those involved will be well aware from action taken to date of our determination to stamp out this practice altogether.

One of my main aims is to ensure that agreement can be reached with relevant flag state authorities enabling appropriate action to be taken against vessels involved in these deliberately aggressive activities. In this regard I have personally written to my counterparts in France and Spain, the Community member states concerned, seeking their assistance and support in combating this potentially dangerous situation. The words were used by the Senator, and it was a potentially dangerous situation, dangerous to fishermen and a grave danger of loss of life. In addition, the various State services concerned have been brought together at senior level by my Department to identify further practical measures that can be taken.

In this context the adequacy of legal provision governing incidents of this nature is now being urgently reviewed. I must say that, while the area up to 12 miles, which is our own territorial area, is well provided for legally, I am not at all satisfied that the international law of the sea is adequate to cater for the incidents which we have been discussing here this evening. The fact is that the flag country is the only country that can take action against a ship once it is outside the 12 mile limit.

Senators will appreciate that the whole area of national and international law is very complex and care needs to be exercised to ensure that any actions taken are in conformity with such law and are sustainable in court. Already some measures have been identified that will contribute to a further lessening of tension in the area. In particular, legal advice suggests that any unregistered vessels involved in these incidents may be detained for a period. The Irish protection services have been requested to enforce this ruling in relation to all such unregistered vessels in Irish waters.

The general situation in relation to our national regulations, if I may outline this for the benefit of Members present, is as follows: The "rules of the road", so to speak, for ships moving in our territorial waters are contained in the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, 1972. The latter are implemented internationally on a uniform basis and that basis is enshrined in the Collision Regulations (Ships and Water Craft on the Water) Order, 1984, as amended by the Collision Regulations (Ships and Water Craft on the Water) (Amendment) Order, 1990. Those committing wilful breaches of these regulations — section 419 of the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894 — are guilty of a misdemeanour and punishable by a fine or imprisonment for up to two years. That is under section 680 of the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894. However, there is a difficulty in that the Collision Regulations do not apply to foreign-registered vessels where incidents occur outside our territorial waters. That is a point I have already made. This is a fairly complex area involving international law which is currently being examined in detail by our legal experts.

Finally, as I have outlined, everthing possible is being done, both at a national and international level, to prevent any recurrence of this problem. Again, I would emphasise my determination to eliminate such dangerous and irresponsible activities by any vessel operating within the Irish zone.

With regard to some points made by Senators in the course of the debate, I would like to indicate to Senator Byrne that the Commission does not licence any boat. The system works as follows. For certain species the Commission, acting on the advice of the scientific experts in the 12 countries, decides on total allowable catches. The total allowable catch having been decided, then quotas are allocated to the various members for species that are subject to quota. The Commission does not have any licensing of fishing boats. The Council of Ministers makes a decision on the recommendation of the Commission with regard to allowable catches and the individual quotas for each country.

Senator O'Donovan mentioned the court cases and I appreciate very much what he said about the action taken. I have nothing but praise for those operating under the ukase of my colleague, the Minister for Defence, for that quick action in this particular regard. There is a very delicate point here. It is a very delicate matter in that they took in the ships whose skippers appeared in the court in Cork on fishery offences—being at sea, that is the only offence they could take them in for. I do know, and it was hardly coincidental, that the people who suffered damage took the opportunity of their being in port for serving civil legal bills on them and nailing them to their crafts. I know also that there used to be problems with non-EC countries. The Senator mentioned the USSR and Norway. I have not had any information about interference with our fishing boats from those countries since I took office. They do come with factory ships and they buy in the area mentioned by Senator O'Donovan.

I also want to say that I appreciate what has been done by a member of the European Parliament, Mr. Gene Fitzgerald, in this regard. I had the opportunity of addressing the Fisheries Committee of the European Parliament. Mr. Gene Fitzgerald was there, we keep in touch with regard to fishing matters and I find him at European level to be of great help to me when I am making decisions with regard to fishery matters in my own Department and in the Council of Ministers.

I do not concede what Senator Dan Kiely said about the fishermen from other countries being ahead of us. I would say that, scientifically and commitment wise, the best of our fishermen are as good as or better than many of the foreigners. Our fishing fleet is ageing and we have that problem. There is a problem arising from that. With the fleet that we have we are performing very well in an international context.

We have a very substantial mackerel quota, for example. Last year the mackerel fisherman had fished the quota four or five weeks before the end of the year. This is an indication of their efficiency and it is also an indication of the sparsity of stocks. It is a point that is exercising the minds of the Council of Ministers at present — how to preserve stocks; how, if possible, to increase stocks and what measures should be taken for that purpose. There is no allocation of fishing days by the Council of Ministers or the Commission of the European Community; all the fishing takes place within the context of quotas, which derive from the total allowable catch for species for which there are total allowable catches. There are some species where you have total allowable catches determined by the Community, but no quotas. It is a free for all for fishermen to take as much as they can within the total allowable catch area. There are some species for which there is neither a total allowable catch nor a quota. Again, I am trying to encourage experimental fishing in those areas.

I want again to express my gratitude to the Senators for taking an interest in the fisheries and in the welfare of our fishermen I can assure them by reiterating what I said already: that nobody is going to drive Irish fishermen off the sea and nobody is going to interfere with them with impunity.

The Seanad adjourned at 8.50 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 14 June 1990.