Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 13 Nov 1991

Vol. 130 No. 7

Adjournment Matter. - Courts Industrial Dispute.

Mr. Kennedy

I am grateful to have this opportunity to raise in the Seanad as a matter of extreme urgency the industrial dispute affecting the courts which is having a crippling effect on court procedures, probate, Land Registry and other significant matters. I thank the Minister for Justice for coming in here to respond to this Motion on the Adjournment.

This industrial dispute is most damaging because it deprives people of their constitutional and legal right of access to justice, a cornerstone of our democratic system and fundamental to the social and economic fabric of our society. I, therefore, call upon the Minister for Justice to avail of the services of an accredited and independent source, such as the Labour Relations Commission, to act as mediator or arbitrator in this dispute so that an immediate solution can be found. It seems intolerable that the Minister for Justice and his officials should refuse to sit down with a mediator to find a solution to this industrial dispute, a dispute which has been described by Donal Benchy, President of the Incorporated Law Society, as one of the most serious in the history of this State. This strike by 270 Circuit and District Court clerks, which is now in its 13th week, is already having a serious impact on several aspects of our daily life and there will be serious long term repercussions and irreversible damage caused unless the dispute is settled immediately.

The magnitude of the detrimental effect of this dispute can be seen from the fact that all criminal jury trials outside Dublin have been suspended. Potentially guilty people charged with serious crimes are out on bail. Innocent people are being denied their rights. In most parts of the country, jurors have not been summoned for criminal trials and no list of cases has been printed. Without this calendar claimants and their legal advisers do not know when a case will be heard.

Applications for grants of probate and administration are not being processed outside of Dublin. Solicitors cannot gain access to the register of judgment mortgages and the bankruptcy register without the necessary documents being stamped. As a result it is impossible to check if the vendor of property is in a position to sell and this, of course, is holding up sales. Applications for bar extensions for special functions and annual applications for the renewal of publican and hotelier licences are all affected. Maintenance payments to spouses are under threat and some litigants may find that in the absence of documents being stamped the time limit has run out and their claims may become statute barred. In addition no new civil claims are being processed.

This dispute will also have significant long term implications. Should this dispute be settled immediately it will take several months to clear the backlog of cases which has built up and the longer this dispute continues the greater the backlog will be.

Very little separates the two contending sides. What is at issue certainly does not justify serious disruption of court work and procedures. The regrading of the administrative and clerical structure of the Circuit and District Courts is essential particularly in the light of their increased workload and higher responsibility as a consequence of the increased monetary jurisdiction from £15,000 to £30,000 in the case of the Circuit Court, and from £2,500 to £5,000 in the case of the District Court. Originally the disputing workers' trade union, the CPSU, sought regrading of 210 posts and the Department of Justice conceded 42. Now the union have reduced their demand to 79 and the Department have increased their offer to 62 posts. This means that a mere 17 posts at around 10 per week per post — a total of £170 per week gross, or £80 per week net, or a mere £4,000 or £5,000 per year — stands in the way of settlement.

The Minister for Justice, I believe, has the responsibility to ensure that an efficient and adequate court service is provided to the public. He should now have recourse to the services of an independent mediator such as the Labour Relations Commission to act as a mediator or arbitrator in this dispute. The case against the Minister has been put clearly and impartially by the President of the Incorporated Law Society, Mr. Donal Benchy. Without taking sides in this dispute, he said that the Government should be setting an example and not claiming that normal labour relations procedures do not apply to them. In the words of The Cork Examiner editorial of 5 November 1991:

It is a fundamental principle of labour relations that if an employer and a union fail to agree they should have recourse to the assistance of an accredited and independent source. This action is all the more important if the failure to call in a body like the Labour Relations Commission results in a strike which seriously damages the general interest.

In conclusion, I believe the Minister for Justice and his officials should now sit down with a mediator to find an immediate solution to this problem which is wreaking disastrous effects on many aspects of Irish life. The Civil and Public Services Union have already applied to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions for an all-out strike and unions involved are currently putting their various members to a ballot. A majority vote of the aggregate membership would have an immediate effect, the disastrous consequence of which would be the closure of our courts. I, therefore, thank the Minister for coming in here this evening and I hope it will be possible for him and his officials to have recourse to the assistance of an independent arbitrator. Senator Cosgrave is sharing my time.

Mr. Cosgrave

I thank Senator Kennedy for allowing me some of his time this Adjournment Matter which is of the utmost importance and urgency. I welcome the Minister to the House and thank an Cathaoirleach for allowing us to raise this matter which we have tried to raise on several occasions, both an the Adjournment and on the Order of Business since the Seanad resumed some weeks ago. The courts' industrial dispute began in the middle of August, and is gradually leading to the closure of the courts system, the system of justice in this country. With a little goodwill on the Minister's part, the matter could be resolved.

I support the request of Senator Kennedy to have the matter referred to some independent arbitrator such as the Labour Relations Commission or the Incorporated Law Society. If the Minister would prefer to use some other body, I do not think that would be a sticking point with the union. The important point is that talks commence immediately to prevent further escalation, otherwise within weeks if not days we could have an all-out strike and a breakdown of the courts system which I do not think the Minister would welcome.

No summonses have been issued since mid-August and I understand that 10,000 summonses have gone missing, creating an intolerable situation. We had anticipated great improvements in the courts system; the people involved are hard working and industrious and have always given tremendous service, sometimes under terrible conditions. Some individuals on criminally low pay deserve a review of their pay and conditions. The Minister and his Department are obliged to ensure that our system of justice is fair, and is seen to be fair.

Senator Kennedy outlined problems in relation to probate matters and judgment mortgages; he mentioned that trials which were set had to be cancelled because jury lists, etc. were not sent out. This situation cannot be allowed to continue; we must face up to the long and short term implications.

The Minister must consent to use whatever measures are necessary to rectify the situation. If talking could begin, the situation might be resolved. It would be most undesirable to precipitate an all-out strike, with a closedown of the courts. As practitioners Senator Kennedy and I have encountered difficulties in relation to issuing of proceedings and difficulties obtaining information are holding up all sorts of matters.

With goodwill on the Minister's side and a little generosity, talks could proceed. We do not want a further escalation of this dispute which affects 270 people directly. Before the situation becomes critical, someone must cry halt. The Minister has the power to do so and I have no doubt that with his commitment to changes and improvements — we have seen changes in jurisdiction in relation to the District, Circuit and High Courts — he does not want to see the new jurisdiction begin on such a disputatious note. It is important that the Minister and his officials discuss the matter and request the union to engage in talks before an arbitration body; I am sure an arbitrator acceptable to both sides could be found to adjudicate on the matter.

Senator Kennedy outlined various other matters which I do not wish to repeat. Without a breakthrough very shortly this strike will escalate. Some courts have already erected notices saying that no court proceedings are taking place and things are fast approaching a chaotic level. The strike, with goodwill, can be stopped and worse consequences averted. I appeal to the Minister to take whatever action is necessary to see that he and his officials have this matter resolved.

I thank the Cathoirleach for allowing me to raise this matter.

Minister for Justice (Mr. Burke)

I fully and readily acknowledge the concerns expressed by Senators Kennedy and Cosgrave in relation to the disruption in the courts. I would like, once again, to express my deep concern at the disruption resulting from the industrial action currently being engaged in by clerical staff in the offices.

I would like to assure the House that every effort was made by officials in my Department in the course of discussions with the union concerned to avoid this action. The stance adopted by the officials of my Department in the discussion was a most flexible and conciliatory one designed to avoid industrial confrontation in the hope that differences between management and staff sides could be negotiated away. This, unfortunately, has not proved possible but I have not given up hope that the dispute may be resolved in the not too distant future. Both sides in the dispute are in contact with one another and certain proposals are being studied. My own view is that the best hope of resolving the dispute lies in continued contact between the parties.

I would like to assure the House that every effort continues to be made to bring the dispute to an end. However, it would not be helpful or conducive to good industrial relations to conduct negotiations across the floor of this House or the Lower House and I hope Senators on all sides will share this view.

With regard to the question of my personal intervention, the position is that I am personally involved through my officials in resolving this dispute. My officials act at all times under my guidance and on my direction. They report to me on a daily and, in some cases, an hourly basis and keep me fully informed at all times of the position and of any developments in the present dispute.

The Seanad adjourned at 8.20 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 14 November 1991.