Today's Order of Business is Item No. 2 — the Electoral (No. 2) Bill, 1991 — from now until 8 p.m. with a sos between 5 p.m. and 6 p.m. The Committee Stage shall be brought to a conclusion not later than 8 p.m. by the putting of one question from the Chair in relation to amendments which will include only amendments put down by the Government.
Order of Business.
I have no difficulty with that arrangement. The Government have given a lot of time to this Bill. I believe that if we get down to work very quickly and have a short Order of Business, we can cover most of the remaining ground.
On the Order of Business, a Chathaoirligh, I believe, a great discourtesy has been shown to all Members of this House and possibly of the other House, that is, the failure of the Minister for Education to make available to Members a copy of the Green Paper. It has been given to the social partners and other groups, but the Members of the Oireachtas have not been able to get copies of the Green Paper, which is supposed to be the basis for Government policy on education over the coming years.
Can the Leader give us details of the proposed visit of President Robinson to both Houses of the Oireachtas? We would all be interested in the detail. I would like also to ask if he has any further news about Item No. 12 on today's Order Paper — the Interpretation (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, 1989, into which he said last week he would inquire.
Unlike Senator Manning, I have some difficulties with the imposition of the guillotine on Committee Stage of the Electoral (No. 2) Bill at 8 p.m. If the Leader held his nerve, the matter would probably have exhausted itself anyway; but I dislike the guillotine, particularly in the case of Bills which have been initiated in this House. Even though the debate has been long, I still think it is important that it be fully discussed by this House when the Bill has been initiated here.
I support Senator Upton's request because we were given an absolute assurance on more than one occasion in this House that the Electoral (No. 2) Bill would not be subject to the guillotine. I, too, think it probably will finish today but it would help if we knew the Minister intended accepting any of the amendments put down by the Labour Party and myself because we are wasting time if he continues as he has been doing up to now.
I would like to ask the Leader if he would make time available to discuss famine in a number of African countries. It appears from the media that the international community are turning a blind eye to the extraordinary suffering and hunger in a number of countries. As this is a Christian country the Members of this House should bring pressure on our Government to raise both in the European Community and in the United Nations this unfortunate situation.
I would like the Leader to convey my displeasure also to the Minister for Education at the discourtesy, not just in relation to the Green Paper, which I asked for on Friday and repeat again today, but also at the lack of an invitation to the launch of the Green Paper. I think it shows the disregard for this House as regards education that since I came in here the only two occasions in three years for a Minister for Education to be present has been in Fine Gael Private Members' time. We have had no education debate — and it looks as if this is going to continue — plus the fact that eventually this Green Paper will lead to an Education Bill which is surely our business. I feel very strongly about this. I hope we will be issued with the Green Paper immediately and that we will have an opportunity to debate it in this session before it goes to White Paper stage.
I am totally opposed to the decision of the Leader of the House to guillotine the Committee Stage of the Electoral Bill. We have quite a large number of amendments on the Bill, but they are very extensive in terms of teasing out the implications of an important piece of legislation that has been initiated in this House. The Leader assured us that a guillotine would not be imposed. With the eight hours being devoted to it today we could most likely have got through the Bill and completed it and I think it is wrong for the Leader to impose the guillotine. Even if we had not got through it today, I am sure only a small amount of time would be required subsequently. The best thing would have been to show proper respect for legislation initiated in this House and ensure that an important and major measure like this would go through the full process. It is doing no benefit to the House at all.
In relation to the Green Paper on Education, I would like to ask the Leader of the House if he would agree to have a discussion on the Green Paper prior to the end of this session. We are now facing a period of some six months before the production of the White Paper. So many educational interests are represented in this House that it would be most appropriate that Senators should have the opportunity of expressing their views on the Green Paper. I must agree also with Senator Jackman——
You are making a speech, Senator. You have asked the Leader about a debate on the Green Paper and I ask you to leave it at that.
I just wanted to make the very simple point that as Members of the Oireachtas we should have been given a copy of the Green Paper. This applies to this House and the other House. It would also have been appropriate if we had been invited to the Council.
On the Electoral Bill, as I mentioned previously it was not the intention to have a guillotine; but, as the speakers have rightly said, it may well be that before the night is out there will be no need for the guillotine. We have a very extensive legislative programme to deal with between now and the summer recess and it is obviously in the overall interest of the House to take that into consideration. In regard to the Electoral Bill, we have spent so far 11 days — 40 hours — eight hours today on it and we will take Report Stage next Thursday morning, when the Minister will be dealing with amendments. In fairness to the House and all concerned, I believe we have considered the Bill in fair detail.
With regard to the copy of the Green Paper on Education, that is something that is outside my control. However, I have already asked the Chief Whip to make contact with the Department of Education to see what is the position and I will come back to the Senators who raised the issue. With regard to the debate on the matter, before the summer, I will communicate with the Whips and leaders of the Opposition parties.
Senator Norris raised the point of the speech by President Robinson next week. I will come back to the House on that. I understand that decision will possibly be made today at Cabinet and I will have more information on it this evening or tomorrow morning. In regard to item No. 12, with the programme we have, I cannot see it being dealt with before the summer.
Order of Business agreed to.