Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 10 Jul 1997

Vol. 151 No. 14

Order of Business.

Mr. Cassidy

It is a great honour and privilege to be appointed to this position and I hope to honour the trust of Members and the Taoiseach who appointed me. I congratulate you, a Chathaoirligh, on your work during your term of office. You took office in very unusual circumstances, bearing in mind the untimely deaths of the first Cathaoirleach of this Seanad, our great colleague, the late Seán Fallon, who was also a distinguished Leader of the House and Whip and served in the House for the too short time of 14 years, and your predecessor, Liam Naughten, who made a great contribution as a Member of both the Dáil and Seanad. It is most unusual to have three Cathaoirligh in the lifetime of a Seanad and could never have been envisaged at the start. The passing of the late Senator Gordon Wilson, who made a magnificent contribution, also left its mark.

On the changeover of Government, it is only right for the House to congratulate and wish luck to the new Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, a young man who entered politics in 1977. He served well and made his mark in the Department of Labour and as Minister for Finance. He is now in his mid-forties and is one of the youngest Taoisigh ever. On behalf of all the Members I wish him well and congratulate him on his magnificent win.

Deputy Harney, the first lady Tánaiste, has also made her mark on history. I wish her well on behalf of the House. I have known Deputy Harney since 1977, as have many Members, when she was nominated to the Seanad by the then Taoiseach, Jack Lynch. I know she will uphold the office with great dignity and respect and will make her mark.

It is right and fitting for the House to acknowledge the contribution of Deputy John Bruton as Taoiseach. He is my next door neighbour and we served in the same constituency for over 12 and a half years at one stage. He works very hard and has made an enormous contribution to Irish life so far, and I know he will continue to do so as Leader of the Fine Gael Party.

Deputy Spring, the former Tánaiste, has made——

Mr. Norris

There are another 147 to go.

An Cathaoirleach

The Leader of the House, without interruption.

Mr. Norris

They all have votes.

Mr. Cassidy

——a very valuable contribution, which should be acknowledged on his leaving of office.

The former Leader of the House, Senator Manning, was an outstanding Leader.

Mr. Norris

Hear, hear.

Mr. Cassidy

He has upheld this House and is respected internationally. I congratulate him on the magnificent way he led this House during his stewardship.

Mr. Burke

He will give Senator Cassidy a stroke.

An Cathaoirleach

Senator Cassidy, without interruption.

Mr. Cassidy

Senator Burke has also been an excellent and most understanding Whip——

Mr. Norris

What about thanking the Duke of Leinster for the use of the hall?

Mr. Cassidy

——as have Senators O'Sullivan and Magner and the Leader of the Independents, Senator O'Toole, who has done his very difficult job with great distinction. I also wish to congratulate all outgoing Senators who were elected to Dáil Éireann. It is a magnificent achievement which underpins the hard work they carried out in their constituencies as Members of the Seanad.

Mr. Norris

When they should have been working here.

Mr. Cassidy

I commiserate with those who were unsuccessful in the Dáil elections and I wish them well, as I do all Members standing in the forthcoming Seanad election.

I have pleasure in welcoming to the House Senators Tom Berkery, Niamh Bhreathnach, Niamh Cosgrave, Michael Enright and Aidan O'Connor.

Mr. Ross

Senator Bhreathnach is not here.

Mr. Cassidy

I will never forget the day I became a Member of Seanad Éireann and I know the new Members will equally cherish their first day.

I propose to take Items 1 and 1(a) on the Supplementary Order Paper. Spokespersons will be allowed 15 minutes per contribution. All other Senators who may wish to share time will be allocated ten minutes. We will be happy to facilitate new Members who may wish to make their maiden speech.

An Cathaoirleach

Does the allocation of time refer to both items?

Mr. Cassidy

It will apply to both items.

Mr. Manning

I congratulate Senator Cassidy on his appointment as Leader of the Fianna Fáil group and Leader of the House. We offer him our full co-operation in the expedition of all business and I hope his appointment will continue into the next Seanad. I also thank him for his kind sentiments about my role as Leader of the House and I join with him in his multifarious good wishes.

Will the Leader guarantee to the House that, should the Government accede to the request in principle to extend the terms of reference of the Dunnes Tribunal, there will be no delay in recalling the House, however inconvenient that may be for Members? We will willingly facilitate the Leader should he wish to recall the House.

The Leader will recall the strong assurances given by both sides of the House that Item 2 on today's Order Paper, namely the Adoption (No. 2) Bill, 1996, would be reinstituted in the next Seanad. I do not expect a response from the Leader on this issue today, but I remind him that Fianna Fáil, the Progressive Democrats Party and all other parties in the House gave an assurance that this Bill would be reinstated at Report Stage, whoever was in Government.

Mr. O'Toole

I congratulate Senator Cassidy on his appointment as Leader of the House. It is now payback time in terms of commitments. When the previous Government was formed, its first business in this House was legislation to increase the number of Ministers of State from 15 to 17. During that debate, Independent Members took much criticism from the Fianna Fáil Party. We were assured by Deputy Bertie Ahern that the first action Fianna Fáil would take on coming into office would be to reverse that disgraceful legislation. Was the House misled by former Senator O'Kennedy who gave that commitment on behalf of the leader and who was supported by Marian McGennis, then a Senator and now a Deputy in the Taoiseach's constituency? I would like clarification from the Leader whether Senator O'Kennedy misled the House or whether Fianna Fáil has reversed its policy on the number of Ministers of State. Perhaps he will illuminate the difficulties that arose at that time. I recall the many difficulties outlined regarding the two new Ministers of State, one of whom is in the Distinguished Visitors' Gallery and whom I thank for his work as junior Minister. Who were the two new Ministers of State who would not have been appointed if Fianna Fáil had done as it promised and reduced the number of Ministers of State from 17 back to 15? I look forward to the reply.

Senator Manning mentioned the commitment he willingly gave on the last day we sat — also made by the then Fianna Fáil Leader in the Seanad, Senator Wright — that the Adoption Bill would be dealt with as a matter of priority. This issue has caused immense heartbreak, particularly in South American adoptions. I appeal to the Leader not to allow this to be delayed. The House should indicate our care for those who are awaiting this Bill's passage into law in order to legalise their children's adoptions.

Hepatitis C was the subject of another inquiry and wide-ranging report during the office of the previous Government. With the parties making up the new Government, I was concerned about the late Brigid McCole's fifth question and how the last Government adopted that position. We were given commitments that all the information surrounding the issue would be made available as soon as those parties went into power. I applaud that commitment, remind the House of it and ask that the information be made available to us as soon as possible.

I support Senator Manning's request that the House be recalled but I would take it further — we should be recalled to debate the outcome of the current tribunal in Dublin Castle. It is not enough to call us back to set up a new tribunal, although I agree that is necessary. We must also have a full debate on the recommendations, conclusions and content of the report of the present inquiry when it becomes available.

Ms O'Sullivan

I join other Senators in congratulating Senator Cassidy on being appointed Leader of the House. I also congratulate our colleagues who were elected to Dáil Éireann and extend best wishes to those going on the Seanad campaign, although I will not be doing so. I thank you, a Chathaoirligh, and the staff of the House on what will be my last day in the House, for the moment at least.

With other Senators I ask that the Adoption Bill be resumed here quickly. I also draw attention to the two Bills mentioned by you, a Chathaoirligh, the Employment Equality Bill and the Equal Status Bill, which were introduced by the former Minister, Mr. Mervyn Taylor, and dealt with issues which are important to sectors of our society not properly protected at present. The new Administration should reintroduce that legislation in a form which will ensure protection for vulnerable sectors of our society. We should return to those issues in the near future.

The House should also be recalled to debate the outcome of the Dunnes tribunal and the probable necessity of establishing another tribunal. I agree with Senator O'Toole that the matter should be debated openly in both Houses and among the public. Everyone is reeling from the revelations in Dublin Castle. We will not go into them in detail today but it is important that there be not necessarily retribution but public accountability, so that we know exactly what happened and ensure that the culture surrounding those events will be gone forever. This is important both to those who practise politics and to the public. I was shopping in Dunnes Stores yesterday, surrounded by people who find it difficult to find enough money to buy groceries. To hear of £1 million being casually handed over is shocking to them. This must be openly debated and I support taking whatever action is necessary to recall these Houses.

Mr. Dardis

I join in the congratulations to Senator Cassidy on becoming Leader of the House and in his thanks and congratulations to the Cathaoirleach, Senator Manning and the staff. I congratulate the people who have been nominated to this House and those elected to Dáil Éireann.

I support the view that the Adoption (No. 2) Bill should return to us and should be progressed as soon as possible to become law. I also share the view expressed by Senator O'Sullivan about the Employment Equality Bill and the Equal Status Bill, particularly on the rights of people with disabilities and the need to have those rights vindicated and protected in law. The incoming Government should consider those issues very closely.

I hope we will be in a position to learn all the facts about the McCole case and the other related matters and that they will be made public.

Mr. Sherlock

I suppose Senator Cassidy sees me as a lesser mortal, nevertheless I congratulate him as Leader of the House. I know there will be continuity. All the issues have been mentioned. I congratulate everybody elected to the Dáil and the new people who have been elected to the Seanad. I appreciate the co-operation which I received previously and continuity is vitally important in relation to the Adoption (No. 2) Bill and other issues.

On several occasions I raised the Report of the Commission on People with Physical and Sensory Disabilities. There is little evidence that any attention is being paid in this regard and I wish to keep this on the agenda. Politics in the future will be interesting. What has been happening in the Payments to Politicians tribunal is revealing. Every effort must be made to get to the very bottom of it. That means having a new tribunal and I wholeheartedly support that call. The public need to have this situation clarified. We are entering a new era in politics and I hope I will be part of it as a Member of this House.

Mr. Ross

I congratulate Senator Cassidy on his appointment and long may it last. I am sure he will return as Leader of the House in a few weeks' time. I address my remarks not so much to Senator Cassidy, although he will have to reply to them, but to Senator Dardis who will also return to this House.

Mr. Dardis

I am glad the Senator knows something I do not know.

Mr. Ross

I do. Will Senator Cassidy, as Leader of the House, concur with the wishes of the Progressive Democrats when they were in opposition that the Universities Bill — in regard to which they were conscious of the opposition — and on which they gave a great lead in terms of the defence of academic freedom and in terms of the defence of the universities being attacked by the State or whether Senator Cassidy will——

Mr. Magner

This is a party political broadcast on behalf of Senator Ross.

An Cathaoirleach

Senator Ross without interruption.

Mr. Dardis

I thought that was enacted.

Mr. Ross

——Did Senator Dardis not hear the Cathaoirleach? He will get used to being on that side of the House shortly.

I would like Senator Cassidy to tell me whether the Universities Bill will be amended as so rashly promised by the then Opposition now in Government, whether he will listen to the strictures of the Progressive Democrats, take on board their reservations about that Bill and amend it accordingly so that there will not be political patronage of the universities. I trust Senator Cassidy will take the Progressive Democrats' advice and line on that issue.

Mr. McGowan

I wish to ask Members of the House from all political parties to send a message to the political leaders in the North. It need not be a party political message but should, on behalf of the Seanad, urge those leaders to get their act together to save lives, ensure the survival of this island's economy and the survival of democracy.

We are drifting into anarchy. I am entitled to speak on this subject because members of the Orange Order came to Donegal to march and, to put it plainly, not a dog barked. There were no hostilities. The marches are a serious matter and we cannot talk our way around that. Nevertheless, I ask the Members to unite in sending a clear message to the elected political leaders in the North to take responsibility for this issue. They must come together and stop the current dangerous process of conflict. The British Government can only make recommendations——

An Cathaoirleach

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Mr. McGowan

My question is addressed not only to the Leader of the House but to the Leader of the Opposition, the Cathaoirleach and other Members. Please let us unite in sending a request to elected representatives in the North to save democracy. That is the message expected of us.

Ms Kelly

As a Senator who is not seeking re-election, I congratulate the Leader of the House on his appointment. He is the third Leader of the House under whom I have served. The current Taoiseach and Cathaoirleach of the Seanad are also the third holders of those offices since I became a Member, which says a great deal for the ability of the House to continue its business as usual despite changes in personnel at the top.

I thank the Clerk and Assistant Clerk of the House for the excellent service they have provided during our term of office. I congratulate the Senators who secured election to the Lower House and wish good luck to Senator seeking re-election to this House. I also send good wishes to those who have covered the proceedings of this House for the broadcast and print media. The House could do with more good publicity. It is difficult to read articles by journalists such as Vincent Browne decrying the need for the Seanad when we are aware of the valuable work being done here.

I thank everybody and assure them I will be back.

Mr. Enright

This is both my maiden and farewell speech as I am not a candidate in the Seanad elections. Perhaps I am fortunate. I join Senators in congratulating Senator Cassidy on his appointment as Leader of the House and in commending Senator Manning on his work as previous Leader. I have always been impressed by the calibre of contributions to Seanad debates which I have seen on "Oireachtas Report". I particularly commend the contributions of Senators representing the universities, or at least most of them.

Mr. Dardis

Is the Senator making an exception of Senator Ross?

Mr. Enright

With regard to reform of the Seanad, I hope there will be room for representation of graduates of the technological and further education sectors.

I agree with the request that the Seanad be reconvened to discuss the outcome of the Dunnes tribunal. If it is reconvened I will be unable to participate in the debate as I will probably be standing in front of a class again. Among the subjects I teach is CPSE — the civics, social and political education course, a new course at junior certificate level which is basically a citizenship course. Through that course young people are encouraged to become aware of their rights and responsibilities to each other, their families, their communities and society. I do not underestimate the damage caused by the controversy of the last couple of days with regard to the Dunnes tribunal. It is essential that the Houses of the Oireachtas are seen to take action because young people who are 12 to 14 years of age today will be potential first time voters if the next general election takes place in four or five years' time and unless they have faith in the democratic structures of society the implications for democracy are very serious. I hope both Houses will reconvene to ensure whatever action that is necessary will be taken.

Thank you, a Chathaoirligh, for your tolerance and I wish everyone contesting the Seanad elections well during the campaign.

Mr. Norris

I wonder if the House could take as read my congratulations to everybody here, in Dublin, Ireland and throughout the universe, including whatever forms of life found on Mars.

Having got the congratulations out of the way, I would like to raise an issue that might be looked at by the DPP, the question of access to this House. It is absolutely outrageous that Members are not allowed access to the House from 9 p.m. on Friday until 9 a.m. on Monday. The television people are allowed in, the cleaners and electricians are allowed in but for some pettifogging reason Members are not allowed in to their offices. We have, in this House, somebody whose party is part of an armed conspiracy against the State so let us not use the excuse of security which is rubbish. Members should be given the opportunity to work. I hope the incoming Seanad will make that very clear to the appropriate personnel.

I wish to propose a change to the Order of Business. After discussion of item 1, which is very important, we should take item 26 which deals with the vaccination of children in orphanages and item 27 which deals with the situation in East Timor which is absolutely critical. This House has shown an interest in this matter in the past and I would be grateful if we could rearrange business to discuss it today.

I am in possession of information which makes this a very important issue. The Indonesian authorities are illegally holding a man called David Alex whom they claim is dead, a statement not supported by eye witness account that he is still alive and being tortured by the Indonesian authorities. It is time we stood up and raised our voices against the criminal regime in Jakarta.

I join Senator Manning and others who suggested the Seanad should be recalled to debate the outcome of the Dunnes tribunal. I hope there will be no gloating in the fall from grace of Mr. Haughey. It would be most inappropriate. I would like to send my sympathy to his family, in particular to his dignified wife who has had to put up with a great deal from some of the most scurrilous members of the media. She has borne herself with dignity and stoicism. I wish her and her family well. I think it is very important that these matters are brought into the open. I also hope the Dunnes tribunal is followed by a real Dunnes inquiry. I do not shop in Dunnes Stores, nor would I because I know how they treat their employees. I remember how they harassed the women who upheld the conscience of this country by striking against the policy Dunnes Stores had of importing goods from South Africa. I remember the squeals of pain from small suppliers when they were screwed to the walls with unfair contracts exclusive to Dunnes Stores. Let us have a look at the ethics of the Dunnes and not just the politicians concerned.

An Cathaoirleach

We are not discussing Dunnes Stores on the Order of Business.

Mr. Norris

I was. Will the Leader graciously withdraw the nasty comments made about programme managers in the run-up to the last election? I would like to put on the record that the outgoing Government was right to have programme managers. I had occasion to deal with a number of them who gave an excellent, efficient, highly professional and very valuable service to this country.

I agree with Senator McGowan that we should do something about the situation in Northern Ireland. As a Protestant, I strongly hope the Orange lodges forego what they see as the right to march down the Ormeau Road. If they had the slightest taste of decency of breeding they would be ashamed to go down that road where they thoroughly disgraced themselves in the aftermath of a shooting outside Grahams Bookmakers. To parade down that road, shouting slogans and giving victory signs was a disgrace not just to protestantism, to Christianity, but to the human race as a whole. If they had any decency they would desist from this because if they annually reopen and infect these political wounds in the way they do we will never have peace on this island. It is not consistent with common human decency and certainly not with the principles of Christianity. I hope an opportunity will be provided at an early stage to debate the situation obtaining in the North of Ireland.

Mr. Maloney

I, too, welcome Senator Cassidy's appointment as Leader of the House. I also welcome all the new Senators here today.

I fully support the point made by Senator McGowan in relation to the marching season in Northern Ireland. Last Saturday 1500 people marched the roads of Rosnowlagh. There were Orange bands and people came from all over the world to support the Orange order in their demonstration and there was no bother; people came from all over Northern Ireland and parts of Donegal to watch the scene; it was a day of celebration. Yet there was mayhem 100 miles down the road because people decided not to do anything to try to solve a problem or to bring two groups together. I commend what Senator McGowan said and support it fully.

I appeal to the Leader of the House that as soon as possible in the new session — I may or may not be here as I, like many others, am a candidate in the forthcoming election — the Seanad introduces the Mental Treatment Act. The Green Paper on the Mental Treatment Act was issued in 1992. I have to say with embarrassment that we have had two Ministers for Health since then and we now have a third. Will the Leader deal with the introduction of the Mental Treatment Act? Tributes were paid earlier to Dr. Noel Browne who had highlighted the inadequacies within the psychiatric service. They have been there since the 1945 Act. We have come 52 years down the road and very few changes have taken place. I do not wish mental patients to be seen as the forgotten people of society. I ask the Leader to raise this issue with Minister Cowen as soon as possible in an effort to have the new Bill introduced to help these people.

Dr. Henry

I second what Senator Maloney said regarding the Mental Treatment Act. It is terrible that we have made no progress after four and a half years. In particular, I second the motion put forward by Senator Norris that we should deal with items Nos. 26 and 27. Item No. 26 is important. The declaration of Helsinki states that regarding medical research the rights of the individual — and in this case it is the rights of infants — must supersede the needs of science and society. It is very important that this matter be clarified as soon as possible. The reports are probably unfounded and may cause our already poor vaccination rate to fall even further.

Mr. Magner

Unlike Senator Norris who will undoubtedly be back here I will not but I intend to take a few minutes to say what I want. It would be churlish of me as a politician not to say that the University Senators have made a tremendous contribution to this House during my time here. I congratulate them not in the generic way Senator Norris did but in a specific way.

I wish to join in the congratulations to Senator Cassidy on becoming Leader of the House. He has been a very astute member of Fianna Fáil in his time. The confidence in him is justified and I wish him well. I worked with the former leader of the Fianna Fáil group, Deputy Wright, when he was Leader of the House. He did a magnificent job on behalf of his party and the House. I salute the fact that he has gone on, not to greater things, but to a draftier place.

In relation to Senator Manning, the former Leader, there is general agreement that he has been a perfect Leader in terms of the status of the House. I know Senator Cassidy's relationship with the Taoiseach and remind him that Senator Manning tried his best to get the then Government to take this House seriously by initiating legislation here. He succeeded to some degree but not to the degree that is possible. The incoming Fianna Fáil and Progressive Democrat Administration can answer the criticism of people like Vincent Browne by making the Seanad more relevant by giving it the powers to examine and initiate legislation, as was done with the legislative committees.

Senator Kelly mentioned the reporting staff. I have been particularly critical of the RTÉ productions here from time to time but I note the improvements that have been made in the Seanad coverage in particular. I thank Don McManus and his staff for those improvements. The scribes were referred to, and I pay tribute to Mr. Jimmy Walsh of The Irish Times, who has given this House very good coverage. I will also take a swipe at the Irish Independent, which seems to cover nothing that displeases it.

Mr. Dardis

It is payback time.

Mr. Magner

Michael Joe Cosgrave was in the House earlier. His daughter Niamh is now a Senator so that little piece of history should be marked, as should the presence of other new Senators.

Senator McGowan raised the issue of Northern Ireland marches. This year the situation seems to have worsened. That is not a criticism of the Taoiseach, but the situation is more dangerous than normal because the Secretary of State is new, the British Prime Minister is new and that Administration is new. There are many uncharted waters. All we can do is wish them well in their handling of what is a potentially explosive situation.

In relation to the Dunnes tribunal, that is for another day, when this House has been reelected. If this had happened in my party, I would feel very badly and ashamed of it. It is accepted, and has always been accepted across party boundaries, that we are in politics for very little. Most of us could earn much more if we were elsewhere, and I might get that opportunity soon. That said, a shameful thing happened and due process will follow. Nobody should glory in it because it is sad for everybody. This matter should be investigated fully on behalf of the people and I am sure that will happen.

There is a tremendous difference between the way the beef tribunal was conducted and the way the McCracken inquiry is being conducted. That has restored faith not just in the Law Library and the Judiciary, but in the fact that we have something that is efficient, cost-effective and that gets at the truth.

The Clerk and Clerk Assistant of the Seanad are ladies, which should be noted. This is an all woman administration and the Dáil is an all male administration. We have two of the most efficient women in the Oireachtas here, and I congratulate them.

Senator Norris raised the issue of the opening hours of the Houses. I put in my stint but failed to crack that nut because we have allowed the Seanad Committee on Procedure and Privileges to become too subservient to the Dáil Committee on Procedure and Privileges. I have argued that because we share the House with Members of the Dáil, there should be a Joint Committee on Procedure and Privileges. The Leader should pursue this in the new Seanad as it is a huge drawback. There is no reference to the Seanad Committee on Procedure and Privileges on the opening and closing of the House, and that should not be. This is not a constitutional matter but one of housekeeping. We should have equal status in the operation of the House.

Mr. Cassidy

I compliment my predecessor, Deputy G.V. Wright, and the Fianna Fáil Whip, Senator Tom Fitzgerald, for their contributions. I also pay tribute to the Leas-Chathaoirleach, Senator Mullooly, and to Deirdre Lane and Jody Blake.

I concur with Senator Magner in complimenting Don McManus on the RTÉ coverage of the House and Jimmy Walsh on his tremendous coverage. Senator Manning asked if the House could be reconvened. I would have no hesitation in doing so to discuss the Dunnes tribunal if that was possible and warranted. On the Adoption (No. 2) Bill, 1996, I will liaise with the Minister and come back to the House at the earliest opportunity. I see no difficulty with the views of Members in this regard.

I do not know if Senator O'Toole was being mischievous——

Mr. O'Toole

Seeking information.

Mr. Cassidy

——when pointing out the 17 Ministers of State who have been appointed, all of whom we congratulate. There has been a staff reduction; there are 11 programme managers and that means a saving to the State. That is a Government decision, which the Senator knows well.

Mr. O'Toole

The commitment counts for nothing.

Mr. Cassidy

On the hepatitis C issue, the Minister is doing all in his power and is taking legal advice about having documents published at the earliest opportunity.

Senator Ross raised the Universities Bill. I will liaise with the Minister and revert to the Senator at the earliest opportunity.

In relation to the deteriorating situation in the North, the air of confidence there is waning fast. I was in Cavan, Monaghan and Leitrim in recent days, and most public representatives and church leaders are doing their utmost to maintain peace. I particularly compliment the latter on their stance last weekend to maintain the current peace. Senator Magner pointed out that there are two new Administrations in power, but these Administrations are as determined as their predecessors were in trying to solve the problems in the North. People living there are suffering, as is the economy. I look forward to the return of peace and I wish all our leaders well in their efforts.

Senator Norris raised the issue of opening hours. I will try to meet the Ceann Comhairle and the Cathaoirleach at the conclusion of today's business to see how we can improve this matter. I could not get into my office at 7.40 p.m. recently, and this was in the middle of a Seanad election, not to mention trying to conduct the normal week-to-week business of a Senator. That is not good enough and will not be allowed continue. I assure Members that this matter will be addressed, if they give us 48 hours.

Mr. Norris

Splendid.

Mr. Cassidy

On item 18, motion 26, I ask Senator Norris to accept an undertaking that I will provide time for it to be discussed within two weeks of our return, if we are all returned and I am the Leader. I will discuss it with the Minister at the end of today's business and notify the Taoiseach of the wishes of this House to have this serious issue discussed within a couple of weeks of our return. I ask Senators Norris and Henry if they will consider my request as it is the last day of this Seanad. Members will appreciate that I was appointed a few days ago and have had to establish contacts with Ministers and Secretaries of Departments and that everything is happening at once. Perhaps Senator Norris will consider that request. I give him an assurance that I will do all in my power in this regard, if at all possible.

Mr. Norris

Senator Cassidy has graciously agreed to the suggestion that we have a debate, which I fully accept. The other matter, East Timor, is very urgent. Would it be possible to have statements on East Timor for half an hour today? If so, I will withdraw the amendment to the Order of Business. I do not want to antagonise Members by keeping them here when they need to go electioneering. Perhaps we could have brief statements simply to place this matter on the record. This young man is actively being tortured by the Indonesian authorities who have stated he is dead. Some 40 people have been killed in the past week.

Mr. Cassidy

If the Senator gives me a brief on the matter I will take it to the Minister for Foreign Affairs this evening. I give him my word on that.

Mr. Norris

In light of that proposal, I will withdraw the amendment.

Order of Business agreed to.