Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 9 Dec 1998

Vol. 157 No. 13

Under-age Drinking: Statements.

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. O'Donoghue)

I thank Senator Farrell and other Senators for raising this important issue for discussion in the House. I am very pleased to take part in the debate and to listen to the views which Senators have on this matter.

As a topic of conversation, the subject of under-age drinking is one on which almost everyone has an opinion to offer. Some of our opinions can be formed by personal experiences and some by experiences which have been related to us by others. Some people can even have an obvious and easy solution to suggest, but Members of this House will agree that resolution of this problem is not an easy one.

As a parent myself it concerns me that our young people, however many or few, would be turning to alcohol at an early age. For this reason I do not approach this matter with a closed mind. However, what is needed is a clear, calm look at the systems, including legislation, which are in place and decisive action to remedy any shortcomings.

I am aware that there is a substantial body of legislation in place already. It might be useful in the first place for me to briefly outline the legal position on the sale of alcohol to under-age persons in particular.

The licensing laws contribute, and must continue to contribute, an important part to the overall effort of curbing the supply of alcohol to persons under the age of 18 years. The statutory provisions specific to addressing the problem of under-age drinking were the subject of review in the Bill which led to the Intoxicating Liquor Act, 1988. That Act contains a comprehensive set of provisions designed to tackle the problem.

Those provisions make it as difficult as possible for persons under 18 years to purchase alcohol lawfully, or to be in possession of it or to consume it, other than in a private residence. Section 31 of the Act makes it an offence for a licence holder to sell or deliver alcohol to a person under 18 years of age or to permit consumption of alcohol by, or the supply of alcohol to, such persons.

The law also recognises the possibility of persons buying alcohol for under-age persons and provides for specific penalties in this regard. It is an offence, under section 32 of the Act, for any person to purchase alcohol for consumption by a person under 18 years in any place other than a private residence.

Section 33 of the Act provides that it is an offence for any person under 18 to purchase alcohol, whether in an on-licence or off-licence, or to consume it in any place other than a private residence.

Section 34 makes it an offence for a person under 15 years of age to be in a bar at any time. There are exceptions provided for in this section, however, such as the children of the licensee or those otherwise resident in a licensed premises, or where a child is accompanied by his or her parents or guardians.

Section 35 provides that if a licence holder allows an under 18 year old to be present in the part of the licensed premises where an exemption is in force, an offence is committed. A licensee is also prohibited from employing under 18 year olds other than 16 and 17 year old close relatives and apprentices.

Breaches of any of these provisions attract penalties by way of fines. However, the seriousness with which a breach of the laws in relation to under-age drinking is viewed is made more forcibly in that any infringement of these laws will result in the holder of an intoxicating liquor licence, on conviction, having his or her licence mandatorily endorsed. As Senators will be aware, a third live endorsement results in automatic forfeiture of the licence.

In so far as legislation can contribute to combating abuse of alcohol by young persons, the controls provided for in the 1988 Act were generally regarded as going as far as criminal legislation could reasonably be expected to go. Enforcement of the legislation is, of course, a matter for the Garda Síochána and I am told by the Garda authorities that the legislation is enforced in a uniform fashion countrywide. However, I am sure Senators will agree that legislation, and the enforcement of such, alone cannot be the only solution to the problem. There are, of course, other non-legislative measures which can be taken. For example, the gardaí are involved in identification card schemes for persons aged under 18 years. These schemes are operated by the local gardaí in conjunction with the Licensed Vintners Association, with funding in most cases from local publicans. There are over 100 of these schemes in operation.

In general, these schemes have been considered to have been reasonably successful and to have assisted in reducing the level of alcohol use by persons under the age of 18 years in the areas in which they were introduced. I want to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the agencies, voluntary and statutory, which have contributed to these local schemes. It is in part because of the success of these schemes that I have now moved to introduce the national voluntary scheme.

Arrangements for the introduction of a national voluntary age card scheme on the basis of provisions in the Act of 1988 are in the course of being drafted in my Department for introduction in the new year. I have taken a personal interest in this matter because of the importance I attach to tackling the problem of under-age drinking. I have also had a number of meetings with the Garda Commissioner on the subject and have discussed the matter again with him within the past few weeks.

On a wider front, Senators will be aware that I have recently received the report of the Sub-committee on Legislation and Security of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Equality and Women's Rights in relation to a review of the liquor licensing laws. As would be the normal case, any reform of the Licensing Acts would require the matter be the subject of consultation with interested parties. In this regard I decided to allow for a limited period of consultation in which to allow parties to respond to the report, or make other observations regarding the licensing laws. The closing date for such contributions was 30 September 1998 and in excess of 60 submissions were received.

My objective in this was to ensure that any legislation that is brought forward by the Government in due course will take into account the many views of people in this complex and difficult area. Additionally, I received the interim report of the Competition Authority in September. This report, while not relevant in its specifics to the problem of under-age drinking, also has important implications for the licensing code. The reports, together with the submissions received, are in the course of being examined as part of the consultative process which I have engaged in with a view to careful and in-depth examination of the question of amending legislation. The specific recommendations contained in the Oireachtas committee's report in relation to under-age drinking are receiving particular attention.

Moreover, I am at present giving consideration to a proposal that, in proceedings against a person charged with the offence of selling or permitting the sale of alcohol to a person under the age of 18 years, the defence of "reasonable belief" that the person served was over the legal age should be abolished. This, in conjunction with the introduction of the national age card scheme, to which I have already referred, will further strengthen the hand of all agencies in the fight against the scourge of under-age drinking. While the national voluntary age card scheme, together with penalties for breach of the law, should help with the supply side of the under-age drinking problem, they do not tackle the problems on the demand side.

I am sure Senators will appreciate that legislative measures and Garda action alone cannot provide the solution to the problem of under-age drinking. They will not, for instance, deal with the ever decreasing age at which young people commence drinking. I understand that recent surveys have claimed that some youngsters become regular drinkers from their early teens. Like any parent, I have to be concerned at this situation. There is a perception that there is widespread flouting of the law in this regard and that the level of enforcement is not as rigorous as it should be. The Garda Síochána has a difficult job to do and I know that it actively enforces the law in this regard.

The annual crime report of the Garda Síochána for 1997 shows a total of 1,397 referrals to the national juvenile office for drink related offences and also that a number of prosecutions were followed up. The Garda Síochána community relations section also runs a schools programme throughout the country. The objective of this programme is to make young people aware of the dangers of involving themselves in crime generally. Included in the programme would be discussions about the dangers inherent in under-age drinking.

To be effective in dealing with this issue we must also look at the packaging of the product. Modern day television and other advertisements lead to drinking being seen by more and more young people, including those in their early teens, as an accepted and desirable way of life. It is clear that under-age and excessive alcohol consumption cannot be effectively addressed by concentrating only on law enforcement measures — though law enforcement clearly has an important part to play. It is an area which needs to be dealt with on a cross-agency basis and it requires significant community input and support.

I should also mention at this stage the national alcohol policy which was launched in September 1996. This policy document is directed at reducing the prevalence of alcohol related problems in Irish society through an emphasis on moderation in alcohol consumption. The document covers a broad range of alcohol related issues, including historic, cultural, economic and legal factors relevant to the use and abuse of alcohol. It also covers matters such as education, advertising, prevention, diagnosis and treatment strategies. The problem of under-age drinking is given particular attention in that both the issues of youth and alcohol and the role of parents and family, and their part in any solution to the problem, are adverted to.

It is clear that legislative measures, Garda activity or even Government action alone will not solve the problem. It is up to all of us, parents, teachers, those involved in the licensing trade and public representatives, to share the responsibility to tackle the problem. That is why the Government will introduce the national voluntary age card scheme. It is time this was done. The regulatory power to introduce this scheme was contained in an 1988 Act. It has not been introduced in the intervening period.

With a view to buttressing and helping others involved in the fight against under-age drinking, it is entirely appropriate, desirable and necessary that I introduce this measure. It will not resolve the problem on its own. However, it will be of assistance. In so far as we can assist, we must do so. That is why I am giving consideration to eliminating the defence of reasonable belief. This, together with the introduction of the card, should be of assistance in the fight against under-age drinking.

We owe it to our young people to help them to lead full and productive lives as valuable members of our society. I acknowledge the fact that the vast majority of publicans would not, under any circumstances, wilfully serve drink to a young person. I also acknowledge the help given and the work done by the representative associations of publicans in this regard.

Mr. Connor

This is an important subject and I am glad we are discussing it. I compliment Senator Farrell, who is a licensed vintner, for being so forward in requesting a debate on the issue. I supported him as Opposition spokesperson on such matters. It would have the almost unanimous support of all parties and groups represented here.

Under-age alcohol consumption is a major problem about which there is no doubt. A great deal of survey and study work has been done on the problem in recent years. The ESRI produced a report on the problem in 1994 and the psychologist, Mr. Neil Johnson, recently published a study conducted in Galway and in the Galway area. In my locality, the Roscommon Regional Youth Service conducted a survey on alcohol, tobacco and other drug use. Some 2,632 young respondents all under 18 years of age were chosen on scientific grounds taking into account a comprehensive regional spread of the area of County Roscommon and east Galway where the survey was conducted. All the other factors needed to make such a survey reliable were deployed in this particular examination which was done in 1993 and published in 1994.

There is one consistent outcome from all the survey and study work done to date which is that under-age drinking is widespread and has rooted itself very deeply in modern youth culture. Generally speaking, surveys on the subject show that there is equality between boys and girls in relation to the main manifestation of the problem — in other words, the number of teenagers under 18 years of age who use alcohol is evenly divided between boys and girls. All surveys show that about 55 per cent of teenagers under 18 years of age who have been surveyed drink alcohol on a regular or an occasional basis. Most worrying is the very high figure in all the samples who admit they drink often or regularly and more than just occasionally.

The County Roscommon-east Galway survey which I mentioned showed that 32.3 per cent of young people who started drinking under the legal age of 18 years of age did so under peer pressure — in other words, they were with friends when they had their first whole alcohol drink. When asked what effect drink had on them during the past year, which was I take 1993, 17 per cent of respondents indicated that they had been sick, 72 per cent indicated loss of memory as a result of drinking, 6.8 per cent or almost 7 per cent said they got into fights, 4.8 per cent or almost 5 per cent fought with their parents and 4.7 per cent damaged property.

Respondents were asked to indicate reasons for drinking: 41.1 per cent said they liked the taste of alcohol, 12.5 per cent said they drank because they did not want to feel left out, 22.4 per cent said taking a drink or drinking helped them to relax, which we all recognise, 18 per cent said — this would have a resonance with adults too — drink gave them courage, almost 20 per cent said that drinking helped them to mix more easily with the opposite sex, which is important for young people, 11.4 per cent said that they did not want their friends to think they were afraid to drink, 17 per cent said drink helped them to mix with friends of all sexes, 15.1 per cent said they drank because it made them more adult and 13.4 per cent said it helped them with their worries and problems.

Another interesting set of figures emerged from this survey. When respondents were asked about their usual source of alcohol 24.8 per cent, or almost one-quarter, said their source of alcohol was a public house while 10.8 per cent said they got it at home which begs some questions. The Minister outlined that it appears legal under the 1988 Act for young people to consume alcohol within their private residences. A high figure, almost 11 per cent, said they drank alcohol they got at home. Obviously, there would be many cases within that figures in which the parents would not be aware their children or under age teenagers were taking drink from the home. Nowadays I suppose there is drink in all homes. Some 2.1 per cent of respondents said they purchased alcohol in off licences and 1.3 per cent said the supermarket was their source of alcohol supply. Almost 13 per cent said they had another source as their supply of alcohol supply — presumably they were given or treated to drink by friends. These figures paint a pretty frightening picture.

All surveys, whether done by Dr. Johnson or the ESRI, while they often arrive at their statistical conclusion from different angles, arrive at the same conclusion at the end of the day. That shows that over 50 per cent and as high as 55 per cent of children between the ages of 14 and the legal age of 18 years of age consume alcohol. A high percentage of those kids consume alcohol regularly rather than occasionally. We have looked at how well alcohol consumption is rooted in the culture of young people. We hear about peer pressure and about how young people have their first drink in the company of a friend who had an influence over them and that they wanted to be as adult as he or she was.

The other interesting factor is the even divide between boys and girls. The same percentage of boys and girls of 15 or 16 years of age use and, very often, abuse alcohol in those tender years.

I sat on the subcommittee drawn from the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Equality and Law Reform. It comprised seven Members, including myself and my colleague, Senator Bohan and five Members of the Lower House. We sat over several months and inherited the work of the committee of the outgoing Dáil. Many submissions were heard on the issue of under-age drinking. If I have one criticism of our report — I speak personally — it is that our recommendations on under age drinking were not strong enough.

I welcome the fact the Minister will introduce a voluntary national age card or a national identity card scheme but it is not enough. We are marrying that to the abolition of reasonable belief provided for under the 1988 Act whereby a person supplying alcohol to a young person must show reasonable proof that he or she did not know the person was under 18 years of age — usually it is a publican or a vintner who would find themselves in such a position. This scheme cannot work unless we introduce a compulsory identity card scheme and the Minister can do so under section 40 of the 1988 Act.

While I welcome what the Minister proposes to do from the beginning of next year, he should aim to introduce a national compulsory identity card scheme very soon. Senator Farrell and Senator Bohan who are both present and are vintners have practical experience of what I am talking about but it would not be fair to a publican to abolish the principle of reasonable belief if the card scheme was voluntary because voluntarily issued cards may be tampered with. I support the abolition of the principle of reasonable belief, but it should be accompanied by a compulsory identity card scheme.

Regarding the civil liberties element, no one is as fond of them as I nor is there anyone who supports and promotes them as I do. However, some of the most socially advanced countries have introduced this legislation and it has not been a problem. We need to bite that bullet. I know the difficulties the Minister will encounter, especially the tidal wave of abuse he will experience. However, I assure him ordinary citizens, especially worried parents, will support him if he introduces such a scheme. While I welcome his proposals, I strongly urge him to go a step further.

Mr. Farrell

I thank the Minister for attending the debate as it is a clear indication how seriously he views the problem. I view seriously the problem of alcohol abuse in general. No Minister has done more than this one to try to prevent the mayhem on the roads which brings death and destruction to so many homes.

The problem which is the subject of this debate is teenage drinking. It is sad to see groups of children sitting in the Public Gallery whose parents believe they have raised to be lovely young people because they are at the stage where they are in danger of falling into the trap of teenage drinking. Nothing has caused as much heartbreak or as many problems. Teenage pregnancy is a major problem in society and interviews with and surveys of teenage girls show that most pregnancies were caused because girls had drink taken and did not know what was happening. Sometimes they did not even know with whom they went home, such was the state they were in. That is sad and it is a sad reflection on society.

I agree with the Minister that no legislation will solve the problem because, if it did, it would have been solved long ago. An awareness must be created and parents must be vigilant and it is to be hoped this debate will initiate that. A trend has started in recent years of children not going home at night and staying with friends. Parents should ensure their children are at home every night until they are at least 18 years old and that they are home at a reasonable time. Schools and others cannot be blamed; we must start at the root cause. Many years ago at a health board meeting I appealed to parents to lock their drinks cabinets because they provided too many opportunities for children to become involved in drink.

Eminent psychologists or psychiatrists on a radio programme recently were unanimous that the drug of alcohol was a greater problem than all other drugs combined. It was the single largest cause of problems among teenagers. Garda figures show 54 per cent of juvenile crime last year involved drink, despite juvenile liaison officers and the efforts of parents, teachers, probation officers, social workers, welfare officers and a host of voluntary organisations to combat the problem. We seem to be going nowhere, despite the fact that we know it is a serious problem.

Young people have money today. Poverty may have been a blessing in our time because we did not have money to spend. However, young people have money today and, no matter what identity card scheme is introduced, they will always get older people to buy drink for them. When I was a gasúr I smoked a little, although not too much, and there was always a senior citizen who would buy a packet of Woodbines for me. Young people will get drink and no legislation or garda will prevent that.

An awareness must be created among young people and it should be at the same level as the awareness about telephone masts. People debate and argue about them, yet the single greatest killer in society — alcohol — is considered by all to be acceptable, despite the trail of destruction it leaves in its wake. Advertising today is geared at younger people. I would like to see a ban on alcohol advertising similar to that on cigarettes.

The problem of teenage drinking only got out of hand in the past ten years. The pubs did a good job, and still do. I speak of ordinary, traditional pubs which care for their customers. When I was growing up, if there was a sign of drink on a person, they would not be allowed into a dance hall. Now every dance hall and disco has a bar to sell drink to young people. A curb must be placed on this. Drink is too readily available in centres of entertainment. The stabbing and killing or injuring of young people in the past 12 months has occurred outside centres of entertainment where alcohol was sold, and not outside local, country or family pubs. There are too many trails of sorrow and desolation for us not to face the fact of alcohol abuse, especially by teenagers. Some statistics show children as young as ten go to school with hangovers. That is a sad reflection on society. No legislation or gardaí will cure that. An awareness must be created and parents, teachers and others involved must play their part in making it a live subject.

Back in the 1940s, it was usual to take the pledge until one was 21; the age was then lowered to 18. I asked a bishop why that happened and he replied that youngsters today would not keep it. That is sad. It is the line of least resistance and the lowest common denominator. When children took the pledge, parents had a crutch whereby they could say to them that, since they took the pledge and made an agreement not to drink, they should honour that commitment. It was a great help to parents in their appeal to their children not to drink. If young people reach 18 or 19 without drinking, matters might not be so bad. However, if they get caught in the drinking trap at ten, 12 or 13, it is disastrous because they are heading down the slippery slope. The awareness to stop that must be created.

I contribute to this debate because I feel strongly about the subject and have done so for the 20 years I have been a member of health boards. I often said I would like schools to bring children to Mountjoy Prison or St. Patrick's Institution to see the young inmates, or to the rehabilitation unit in Dún Laoghaire to see young people there lying strapped up in bed and unable to speak, all the result of the abuse of alcohol. That is what young people should be shown. It is not good enough to bring them into the Seanad to see the beautiful architecture, we must teach them the realities of the world. We should do more work in that area. I would like to say a great deal more on this subject. I am grateful the Minister has faced up to his responsibilities in a very open and honest manner and is in the Seanad today because he views this as a serious matter. I hope the general public view it seriously.

We are now entering the Christmas season and people who are hail and hearty today will be in coffins by the end of the year as a result of alcohol abuse. I wish people would wake up, take off their blinkers and witness the terrible destruction caused by alcohol abuse. Drink was available at the marriage feast of Cana; it is no harm to take a drink but one should not abuse it. Alcohol is being abused by 10, 12 and 14 year olds. I hope people wake up to the dangers of alcohol abuse.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I understand that under our ethics legislation it is appropriate for Senator Bohan to declare a vested interest in this matter.

Mr. Bohan

I thank the Minister for coming to this House, I know he is a busy man. It is hardly necessary for me to make a declaration; everybody knows I have a vested interest in this matter. I am glad to have the opportunity to speak on this important subject.

As a matter of principle and policy, the Licensed Vintners' Association has always supported legislative measures aimed at eliminating the extremely problematic issue of under-age drinking. That is why the association supported the relevant sections on under-age drinking contained in the Intoxicating Liquor Act, 1988. It is also the reason the association recently took the view that the recommendations in the recent report of the Oireachtas Sub-Committee on Legislation and Security dealing with a review of the liquor licensing laws to set up a research group in conjunction with all interested parties to produce an immediate report on the options and strategies for establishing a national age card scheme and that the maximum penalties for conviction of holders of liquor licences and others for providing liquor to persons under 18 years be increased to £500 for the first offence and £1,000 for subsequent offences are eminently sensible and should be enacted in legislation as soon as possible.

Under-age drinking is a many faceted issue and is not capable of elimination by legislation alone. Much depends on parental control, especially in the affluent era in which we now live where drink is often freely accessible in the home and parental absence is a common experience for teenagers. Peer pressure is also a major factor. It may demand depths of strength of character for a young person to say "no" when all around him or her are having, or seeming to have, a great time by drinking alcohol before they reach the legal age. These are issues outside the scope of legislation. Implementation of thoughtful and imaginative policies such as those proposed in the national alcohol policy and aimed at educating young people of the need to postpone drinking until reaching 18 years of age has an important role to play, as does the recent code of practice on marketing and labelling of single serve alcoholic beverages — alcopops in particular — which was developed and promoted last year by the Drinks Industry Group with the backing of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. Responsible advertising and marketing policies also have their place in the overall policy mix. The interaction of all these and other social elements is essential if the incidence of under-age drinking is to be curbed.

Until recently the licensed trade had divided views on proof of age cards. Many of my colleagues were strongly in favour of such cards, while a significant minority saw cards as a potential licence to drink that should, on the grounds of common sense, be opposed. The latter view is redundant, living as we do in a society in which identity cards proliferate. A recent survey carried out within the trade indicates that 89 per cent of publicans would welcome a national card scheme. However, there is a major administrative dilemma. Who should issue proof of age cards? Should it be the Department of Education and Science, the health boards, the Garda Síochána, the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform or some other completely independent organisation charged solely with this function? I am open to correction, but difficulties over establishing who should have the final responsibility for such cards were the main reason section 40 of the 1988 Act, which provided for the issue of age cards, has not yet been implemented. This administrative obstacle should be overcome as a matter of urgency. There is no reason it cannot.

The Licensed Vintners' Association believes the present system of fines and endorsements as proposed and updated, if rigorously enforced, would provide an adequate disincentive to that very tiny minority of publicans who knowingly sell drink to minors. I place on record my opposition to any publican who serves alcohol to under-age customers. The House can be assured that such people can expect no support or defence from the Licensed Vintners' Association. Conviction for such an offence would be grounds for expulsion from our organisation. Members must realise that publicans are usually also parents, often of teenage children. Quite apart from the moral issues involved, and these are great, publicans are not the sole, or even the main, source of supply of alcohol to minors and are professionally aware of the damage such practice has on the long term future of their businesses. They will give no support to colleagues who knowingly jeopardise their livelihoods by dealing with under-age customers. The House may be assured that the Licensed Vintners' Association and the Vintners' Federation of Ireland will, as a matter of ongoing policy, support any intelligent legislative measures designed to curb the problem of underage drinking.

Mr. O'Donoghue

I thank Senators for their contributions to this important debate. It is accentuated by the fact that we are now entering the festive season when, as Senators have pointed out, abuse of alcohol by young people can become a real problem. That does not mean it is not a problem at other times of the year, it is simply greater during the festive season.

I will refer briefly to the question of the defence of reasonable belief and the introduction of the national voluntary age cards scheme which I proposed to proceed with in the new year. At present, if a licensee appears before a court charged with the offence of selling drink to minors, he or she can plead the defence that he or she reasonably believed the person concerned was over 18 years of age. I am actively considering the removal of that defence. If it is removed, however, the licensee must be given some mechanism whereby he or she can ascertain the age of a person who orders alcohol on his or her premises.

If the reasonable belief defence is removed, a licensee would be foolish — even though the scheme is voluntary — not to ask for the production of an identity card if he or she was in any doubt about the age of a person ordering alcohol on the premises. That is how I envisage the scheme working. If it is introduced in this way, the scheme will have the capacity to deal in a real and tangible way with the small minority of people who serve alcohol to those who are under age. Let us be clear about one thing, that small minority does not merely relate to licence holders because others are also involved. Senator Farrell is correct to state that some adults who are not licensees are involved in the sale of alcohol to under-age drinkers.

I appreciate Senator Connor's comments on this issue. I trust that my explanation of the manner in which I envisage the identity card scheme will work will allay the Senator's concerns in respect of the scheme's non-compulsory nature.

I also appreciate Senator Bohan's comments and I acknowledge the input of the Vintners' Federation and the Licensed Vintners' Association in respect of the problem of under-age drinking. On numerous occasions, the leaders of these organisations have resolutely opposed the sale of drink to young people. In that context, Senator Bohan is correct to state that the vast majority of publicans have children and they are as concerned as others about this problem because they witness the effects of alcohol abuse. It is only right to place on record that the associations provide considerable assistance to the authorities in trying to stamp out the abuse of alcohol by young people.

With regard to the comments of Senator Farrell, it is true that a multi-faceted approach is required. It is farcical to suggest that it is possible to deal with this problem through the enforcement of criminal legislation alone. That is not possible. The assistance of many agencies, parents, family members and responsible people will be required to solve this problem. As Senator Farrell indicated, education is perhaps the best way to inform young minds with regard to the abuse of alcohol. Education, particularly at a formative stage, can have a great bearing on the attitudes young people adopt towards alcohol and other matters. Responsibility for that job should not be left to teachers, it must be extended to parents and into the wider community.

The contribution my Department proposes to make in respect of tackling the problem of under-age drinking will be to introduce the regulations provided for under the 1988 Act. Those regulations are at an advanced stage and I have been checking the drafts of late. We are poised to introduce the scheme. As Senator Bohan pointed out, things have moved on and identity cards have been introduced in a number of other areas. It is only appropriate that we take advantage of the provisions on the 1988 Act to try to stem the problem of under-age drinking.

Since coming to office I have been concerned about this problem. Senator Farrell correctly stated that the figures for reported juvenile crime increased last year. That may be due to greater levels of reporting but it may also be due to various improvements in that particular area. Regardless of whether the figures have increased in terms of the number of crimes committed, it must be accepted that alcohol plays a part in juvenile crime. Therefore, it is desirable that we should try to impact on the problem to the best of our ability. That is the Government's intention.

The Government wants to assist parents who are concerned about his problem. However, while we will introduce the age card scheme — which I am sure will be complied with by licensees and enforced, in so far as is possible, by the Garda Síochána — it must be recognised that this problem must be addressed on a broader basis. This problem will not be solved or minimised by the actions of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform or another agency because a multi-faceted approach is required. If this debate has helped to engender an even broader discussion on that issue, it will have been a worthwhile exercise.

I thank Senator Farrell and others for raising this important matter and I thank Senators Farrell, Connor and Bohan for their valuable contributions. I also thank the Seanad Whip, Senator Tom Fitzgerald, who organised the debate, and the Cathaoirleach and his staff for their courtesy and efficiency.

Sitting suspended at 3 p.m. and resumed at 4 p.m.