Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 1 Apr 1999

Vol. 158 No. 20

Order of Business.

Mr. Cassidy

Before I announce the Order of Business, I express our sympathy to the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Martin, and his wife, Mary, on the tragic loss of their baby son, Ruairí. Our hearts go out to them. To lose a child is every parent's nightmare. I am sure I speak on behalf of everyone in the House when I offer my deepest and heartfelt sympathy to them both.

The Committee and Remaining Stages of the Qualifications (Education and Training) Bill, 1999, which was to be taken today has been cancelled with the agreement of the leaders of the other parties in the House. The Order of Business for today is item 1, Committee and Remaining Stages to be taken today.

Mr. Manning

On behalf of my party, I join with the Leader in expressing our heartfelt sympathy to the Minister, Deputy Martin, and his wife, Mary, on the terrible tragedy which befell them last evening. As the Leader said, it is every parent's nightmare to lose a child in this way. All we can say is that our thoughts, sympathy and prayers are with them at this difficult time.

The Leader is right to cancel the education debate today. It would be unconscionable to proceed with it. We will co-operate with him in every way to ensure it receives a speedy and orderly passage at a later date.

For the third day in succession the support of the House is with the Taoiseach and the negotiators in Hillsborough. I hope there will be a breakthrough for the second Good Friday in succession.

Mr. O'Toole

This is shocking news because the Minister was delighted at the birth of the baby just over a month ago. The birth was premature but everything seemed to be fine at the time, and he told me a few weeks later that his wife, Mary, was home from hospital and that they were looking forward to everything going well from there on. It is one of those crushing blows which we hope we never have to face. It puts things in sharp perspective. The Minister and I spent hours yesterday and the day before arguing and raising a range of difficulties and problems. Things which seemed important then do not seem so now. Both he and Mary have the support of everyone in the education sector. I can say on behalf of 40,000 teachers – my post-primary colleagues will forgive me for speaking for them on this occasion – and of the partners in education that they have our heartfelt sympathy and condolence. We hope we can show support for them. My heart goes out to them.

Mr. Costello

On behalf of the Labour Party, I would like to be associated with the expressions of sympathy and condolence. It is a terrible tragedy for a family to lose a baby and our sympathy is with the Minister. It puts everything in perspective and we will co-operate with the legislation being dealt with at a later date.

As this is the last sitting before Easter, I express our strong support for and good wishes to the Taoiseach and the Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, in their deliberations in Belfast to try to achieve another agreement. We are on the eve of Good Friday, and I hope their return to Hillsborough yesterday is an indication of a positive and a hopeful outcome today. I support what they are doing and hope we will hear good news over Easter.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will make a statement in the other House about the Sheedy case which I raised on the Order of Business yesterday. Will the Leader approach the Minister to see if he would find time to come to the Seanad to discuss the matter? The concerns regarding the case should be addressed to the satisfaction of both Houses.

Ms Keogh

On behalf of my party I offer my sincere condolences to the Minister, Deputy Martin, and his wife, Mary on this tragic loss. I find it very difficult to speak about such a matter. It puts our work into perspective. I hope he and Mary will be able to get through this.

Mr. Norris

I wish to be associated with the expressions of sympathy to the Minister. I had the pleasure of spending an evening with him and his wife at a dinner in Cork and found them a most engaging and charming couple. It is always a tragedy when this kind of thing strikes and I know that our good wishes and prayers for him will strengthen him.

I wish also to be associated with the continuing messages of goodwill being sent to the North of Ireland, to our representatives there and to people from all sections of the community. It looks tantalisingly hopeful at this stage. I hope this Easter we will have good news of a kind of resurrection of the Irish people.

I wish to add a sour note on a parochial matter about the city of Dublin. I am glad Senator Ryan is not here because I am sure he would reprimand me. We talk a lot in this House about the environment, our love of trees and so on and we have just had a festival where people have planted trees all over the place. I walked down O'Connell Street yesterday and I could not understand how approximately 14 mature, beautiful trees have been chopped down. It then struck me it was done because of the blasted millennium spike. Could the Leader, who I know is interested in the city of Dublin, although he is a country person, and is devoted to the northside, ascertain what is happening and why the trees in the centre of O'Connell Street have had to be devastated at this time of the year?

Miss Quill

I wish to say something in the hope that all our words will add to some kind of consolation and support to the Minister, Deputy Martin. It is very hard to find words but they are the only way we have to communicating our feelings and our thoughts. This is a very bitter blow to his family. I remember visiting his wife Mary in the Erinville Hospital after the baby was born and remarking how lovely was the child who was coming into a happy and good family.

It is a cruel and bitter blow to that family, as it is to any family and to any parents who lose a child. It tears the heart out of everything and defies understanding. One of the most bitter things parents can do is to bury their child. I would like the Minister, Deputy Martin, to know he has all our support and sympathy on this occasion. I hope that will bring some comfort and consolation to him and his wife and their two lovely children who are very small and who will find it extremely difficult to comprehend how their little baby brother can be snatched away.

An Cathaoirleach

I also wish to be associated with the expression of sympathy to the Minister, Deputy Micheál Martin and his wife Mary on the tragic loss of their baby and to be associated with the expressions of sympathy made by the leaders of the various groups on behalf of all the Members in the House.

Mr. R. Kiely

I also wish to be associated with the expressions of sympathy to the Minister, Deputy Martin and his wife Mary. I also wish the talks in the North every success.

I am confused as to when the new millennium will begin. Is it next year or the following year? I understand a decade always starts with the figure 1 and finishes with the figure 10, while a century starts with the figure 1 and finishes with the figure 100 and a millennium starts at 1 and finishes at 1000. We may, therefore, be a year too soon in celebrating the start of a new millennium.

Has any progress been made on an issue I have raised on a couple of occasions regarding former Garda Superintendent William Geary? He was dismissed from the Garda Síochána in 1928 and is now living in America. He lived in my neighbouring parish. I have said before I believe an injustice was done in his case.

Mr. Walsh

I also wish to join in the sincere expressions of sympathy—

An Cathaoirleach

Senator, I am reluctant to interrupt you but the tradition is that on an occasion such as this the leaders of the groups speak on behalf of all their members.

Mr. Walsh

I wish to concur with what has been said. A request has been made to the Leader that consideration be given to monitoring the costs of the tribunals. While we all respect their independence, there is public disquiet regarding the fact that the first witness to one of the tribunals has been in the witness box for approximately three months. That has ominous implications for the taxpayer. Could the Leader find a mechanism whereby periodically the cost of the tribunals to date would be brought to the attention of the House? This might focus minds on expediting matters and in arriving at conclusions on the various issues before them.

I concur with Senator Rory Kiely's request regarding William Geary. I met him in New York on St. Patrick's Day. Senator Jackman may also have met him. His forthrightness was impressive. It would be unusual for somebody to protest their innocence 70 years later unless there was good and proper grounds for it. I have taken the matter up with the Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and I hope the House will lend its support to ensuring that a man of 100 years of age would be in a position to return to Ireland.

Mr. Coghlan

Will the Leader ask the Government to indicate its intentions regarding the exclusion of disadvantaged areas from Objective One status? This could result in a loss of income of up to 50 per cent to these areas over the period set out in Agenda 2000. Will he indicate if the Government intends to provide the necessary matching funding? I am sure he would agree that, in fairness and equity, the same rate of headage payments should apply to the different disadvantaged areas designated for Objective One status and those designated for Objective One in transition.

Ms Cox

Will the Leader arrange for the Minister for Finance to attend the House to debate the national plan? Perhaps he would then take on board the proposals made by Senators from various parts of the country. It is important that their local knowledge be considered, especially with regard to prioritising the requirements for areas designated for Objective One status.

Dr. Henry

I realise that An Post is an independent body, but will the Leader ask the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to try to do something about the desecration of the pillar boxes around Dublin? I understood that only those grossly overused were being replaced. However, good ancient pillar boxes are being replaced by plastic ones which will doubtless be easily knocked down by vandals following which the old ones will have to be reinstated if they have not been destroyed.

The street furniture of Dublin is very important. There is a sense of history in what is written on these old pillar boxes. For example, some of them contain the emblem of Queen Victoria painted green. It is a pity to see what is happening at present and I would be grateful if the Leader were to make representations to the Minister.

Labhrás Ó Murchú

Tá an díomá orm go pearsanta agus tá a fhios agam go bhfuil díomá ar an chuid daoine eile freisin toisc an feachtas fógraíochta atá ar siúl ag muintir McDonalds i lathair na huaire agus dís beaga á dhéanamh ar Pheig Sayers. Is masla é seo ní amhain do Pheig Sayers ach dá chlann agus do gach duine sa tír seo go bhfuil suim acu ina gcultúir. Tá siúl agam go mbeidh an Seanadóir Ó Casaide in ann labhairt leis an Aire Ealaoíne faoi seo.

I want the Leader of the House to express my disappointment to the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands at the advertising campaign being conducted by McDonalds and the insult which it is giving not only to the late Peig Sayers but to her family and all who appreciate the artistic contribution which has been made to the life of this nation which has been acknowledged internationally. I can only suggest that it is the product of a sick mind. I ask the Leader to take up this matter with the Minister because no right thinking Irish person should accept what is happening in the name of McDonalds at present.

Mrs. Ridge

I agree with Senator Henry about the official vandalism of street furniture which should be preserved. That is by the by because I indicated I wished to ask a question and I am aware that time is short. The Leader promised many debates. Will he give us a brief outline of which ones will take place after the Easter recess because he indicated he would take two in particular?

Mr. D. Kiely

I ask the Leader for a debate with the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment about the seriousness of the unemployment situation in the north Kerry region, in particular, after the recent announcement of the loss of 30 jobs at Stelrad in Listowel. This is the third such blow in the past two years in Listowel, where no employment has been created in the past 25 years. It is important at this time in the day of the Celtic tiger when Kerry is being removed from the Objective One region that something be done for the unemployment situation in the north Kerry region and, in particular, to find an alternative industry to replace the loss of these 30 jobs, which is been detrimental to that entire region. There should be a debate dedicated to the employment situation in the north Kerry region which is the biggest unemployment blackspot in Ireland.

Mr. O'Donovan

For the third time in 12 months, I ask for a debate on the Gaming and Lotteries Acts. I ask the Leader to ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if a new Bill could be introduced to update the law. The law, which deals with lottery licences, gaming halls, etc., is antiquated. I believe that there is a huge loss to the Revenue and it would be worth the Government's while to look at the situation, review existing legislation and update it for the new millennium. It is totally outdated and unworkable. It is about time that this would be done. I hope the Leader would ask the Minister that such a Bill could be initiated in this House in the next session.

Mrs. Jackman

Some time ago I asked for a debate on the report on the proposed privatisation of Aer Rianta and the Great Southern Hotels group. I believe the report is published although we have not received it yet, but I would like a debate on it in the next session.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

Has the Government had discussions with other EU member states about a uniform response to the thousands of refugees who are exiting Kosovo? If the Government has not had such contact, I ask the Leader to request the Taoiseach to call a meeting of the European heads of Government to recognise that this is a European problem which deserves a European response on a humanitarian basis.

Mr. Glynn

Aontaím go hiomlán le tuairim an tSeanadóir Ó Murchú. The current McDonalds advertising campaign on Peig Sayers is an abomination and an insult.

An Cathaoirleach

I allowed Senator Ó Murchú to raise this matter. It is not in order on the Order of Business.

Mr. Glynn

It is important that Members of this House—

An Cathaoirleach

The point has been made.

Mr. Glynn

—would express their disappointment at the outrageous treatment of one of our great writers by McDonalds.

Mr. Connor

I ask the Leader to call on the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to produce legislation on Ireland's participation in the setting up of an international criminal court. We signed the protocols for this in Rome last July and Ireland was expected to be one of the first to introduce legislation because we have no baggage in these issues. We need the involvement of 60 countries to trigger it. A few months ago we enacted legislation to deal with war criminals in the former Yugoslavia and in Rwanda but, in the light of what we see taking place in the former Yugoslavia in Kosovo, this is important because the situation will yield up a number of people who ought to be brought before an international criminal court for crimes against humanity and international war crimes. It is important that this legislation be enacted in Ireland and that we would be one of the first 60 countries which would ensure that the court is put in place in good time. I hope that legislation will come before the House in the next session.

Mr. Bonner

I am loath to raise this issue, particularly in view of the events which are unfolding in Northern Ireland, where I hope by the end of this week solutions will be found. I want to raise an issue with the Leader which I raised last week because I feel that with the political system winding down for a number of weeks the issue might lose momentum. Will the Leader advise me of the up to date position on, or if he has spoken to the Minister for Foreign Affairs about, the investigation into the murder of Ms Rosemary Nelson? I am concerned about the Hamill family and the loss of momentum in the civil case after the death of their son, Mr. Robert Hamill. I am particularly concerned about this issue due to the fact that there has been the case of Mr. Pat Finucane and the Law Society in Northern Ireland has refused to—

An Cathaoirleach

I am sure the Leader of the House will advise the Senator of any information he has about these matters.

Mr. Bonner

I would be glad to hear it because I am concerned that with the political system closing down the thing might lose momentum.

Mr. Cassidy

I, too, join the Leaders of the Opposition parties and others in sending our continued good wishes to the Taoiseach and his Ministers, the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, and his team, and all the leaders in the North. As Senator Costello said, we hope there will be a another Good Friday agreement to enhance the long awaited final conclusion of last year's Good Friday Agreement. I will pass on to the Minister the views of Senator Costello regarding the Sheedy case also.

Senator Norris called for various adjustments in O'Connell Street. Improvements are to take place there. I understand the Government is to spend £100 million on O'Connell Street and £130 million at the back of the Senator's residence at Summerhill. The Senator will be pleased to hear that massive badly needed developments are taking place in that area. That area is fortunate to have Senator Norris resident in it to keep these things highlighted in the public domain.

Senator Rory Kiely and Senator Walsh spoke about Superintendent Geary. Yesterday I spoke with the Attorney General, who has looked at the file. He passed on his views to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform but, as we will all be aware, the Minister is occupied totally with the Northern Ireland talks. They are doing everything they can. There is a great deal of interests among Members of the Oireachtas, from the Taoiseach down, in this particular case. I would expect that there will be movement on the file as soon as the Minister returns to his Department after the Northern Ireland talks.

I take on board the views of Senator Walsh regarding the cost of the tribunals and will pass them on to the Minister. Senator Coghlan stated his concern that his area in County Kerry will get matching funding. Given that the Clare-Kerry area is represented by the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, Deputy de Valera, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue, and many prominent politicians, with whom Senator Coghlan is extremely friendly—

Mr. Manning

He is one himself.

Mr. Cassidy

—his concerns will not fall on deaf ears. He would not let that happen in any event.

Senator Cox called for a debate on the national plan to convey Senators' views to the Minister and I will allocate time for that. I will convey Senator Henry's views on pillar boxes to the Minister for the Environment and Local Government. I will also convey the views of Senators Ó Murchú and Glynn on Peig Sayers and the McDonalds' campaign to the Minister as a matter of urgency. I will let Senator Ridge know on the first day after the recess the plan of action and progress to date on legislation.

Senator Dan Kiely raised his concerns about north County Kerry and the loss of jobs in the Listowel area, which can be included in the debate on the national plan. I will allocate time for discussion of any worthy proposals in this regard. In the past two years we have been generous in facilitating Senators' requests to discuss urgent matters related to their areas. Private Member's Business and Adjournment Matters also provide another opportunity for such matters to be aired. Senators should consider this when raising matters on the Order of Business.

Senator Donovan asked about updating the gaming and lottery licensing legislation. I will convey his views to the Minister and if he wants a debate after the Easter recess I will allocate time for it. Senator Jackman raised the report on the Great Southern Hotel Group, which I expect all Senators to have after the recess. I will convey Senator Taylor-Quinn's views on refugees from Kosovo and Senator Connor's views to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Senator Bonner raised his concerns about the murder of Rosemary Nelson and Robert Hamill which I will convey to the Minister.

I wish the staff of the House, the press, the ushers, the gardaí and Members a happy and holy Easter. I look forward to seeing everyone in two weeks, after their well-earned rest.

Order of Business agreed to.