Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 27 Jun 2000

Vol. 163 No. 23

Aer Lingus Bill, 2000: Committee and Remaining Stages.

Sections 1 to 8, inclusive, agreed to.

SECTION 9.

Question proposed: "That section 9 stand part of the Bill."

Mr. Dardis

I raise a concern with the Minister which is referred to on Second Stage regarding the retired aviation staff of Aer Lingus and their pensions. I do not have to go into this in great detail because I know the Minister is familiar with the case. They feel they are being very much left behind in the sense that their annual increases are much less than in other sectors. That would be the central proposition.

I note that subsection (1) refers to the former employees of Aer Lingus with regard to the superannuation benefits. I ask the Minister what assurances she can give the retired aviation staff and perhaps to update us. It was raised on the Adjournment in the other House and she also has put procedures in place to deal with this matter. What assurances can she give the retired staff and can she give us some update concerning their pensions?

Minister for Public Enterprise (Mrs. O'Rourke)

I thank the House for taking Committee Stage of the Bill this evening and for the question on pensions raised by Senator John Dardis. I appreciate the interest he and the other parties have shown in this matter on Second Stage. Last autumn, the unions came to see me about pensions and in the course of that, we agreed that I would ask the chairman of Aer Lingus, Bernie Cahill, and the chairman of Aer Rianta, Noel Hanlon, to set up a task force to examine the issue of pensions. The dialogue at the meeting led me to the conclusion that there was a need for such a measure. I regret that the measure was not undertaken many years ago but it was not. Arising out of that, I received their study of the matter last week and it has gone for actuarial appraisal.

Also last week, a question was tabled in the Dáil on the matter asking if I would arrange for the chairman of Aer Lingus and the chairman of Aer Rianta to meet the retired staff officers association. I undertook that I would and, following that, the officials in the Department prepared the letters for me. Towards the end of last week, the letters went to each chairman asking them specifically to meet the retired staff officers association to discuss the issues of concern to them and to come back to me then with the report.

Mr. Dardis

I thank the Minister for her reply and I note that this is a Seanad Bill. Perhaps if there are any relevant matters arising from her investigations that would require attention in the Bill, she might look at it between now and the Bill going to the Dáil. As I understand it, this will not be concluded in the Dáil this session. It will leave this House but will not be taken in the Dáil until after the recess.

Mrs. O'Rourke

I will come back to the Senator on the matter and I note his strong concerns. His assumption that it will not be sent to the Dáil is correct and, therefore, the Bill will not become law. I will reply to the Senator and any other Members who expressed an interest on the matter.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

This is an important issue. I understand that there is surplus of more than £320 million in the joint Aer Lingus/Aer Rianta superannuation fund but an additional £220 million or £230 million is required. I am delighted that the Minster has announced that the chairmen of the two companies will examine the matter jointly and that a task force will be established because it is absolutely vital that the interests of workers and existing Aer Lingus pension holders should be properly protected. It is essential that the ongoing examination and report by the actuaries is concluded soon so that the Minister and both chairmen can reach a decision because once the Aer Lingus IPO proceeds, the question arises as to who will fund the superannuation fund. It is important the employees are secure in the knowledge of where that funding will come from, that it will continue and that it will be put on a solid footing. Hopefully, legislation will be introduced in the House. It is essential that a more detailed response should be provided as the Bill progresses through the Houses.

Question put and agreed to.

Sections 10 to 13, inclusive, agreed to.

Schedule agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment and received for final consideration.

Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

Minister for Public Enterprise (Mrs. O'Rourke)

I thank you, Acting Chairman, and your other colleagues in the Chair for your ready courtesy last week on Second Stage and today. I thank Senators O'Dowd, Quinn, Henry, Ross, Dardis, Taylor-Quinn and my two Fianna Fáil colleagues for contributing to the debate. It was good and lively. Second Stage makes interesting reading. The Bill will proceed to the Dáil in the autumn. I pay tribute to the officials who are with me. Both of them have spent a great deal of time working on this legislation and are involved in the wider IPO process. I am very appreciative of their work and your courtesy, Acting Chairman.

Mr. T. Fitzgerald

I thank the Minister for initiating the Bill in the House. We are always proud when Bills are initiated here. We feel that the House is a more sober place to discuss legislation. I thank the Minister for the way she handled this legislation and for the open manner in which she replied to questions. I thank her officials and I thank the Opposition for aiding the speedy passage of the Bill.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

I am only standing in for Senator O'Dowd. I compliment the Minister on initiating the Bill in the House. She has initiated a number of other Bills here and that increases the relevance of the House, which is appreciated. The fact that she has initiated the legislation here gives the Minister an appreciation of what can be done in this House. Her officials have a big job. It is just as well that I did not become too involved in this debate at an earlier date because it is a different issue to Aer Rianta. I have approached this legislation with a different slant. I compliment the Minister and her officials.

Question put and agreed to.

Acting Chairman

When is it proposed to sit again?

Mr. T. Fitzgerald

At 10.30 a.m. tomorrow.

The Seanad adjourned at 5.45 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 28 June 2000.