The Order of Business today is No. 1, Protection of Employees (Fixed-Term Work) Bill 2003 – Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business, with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes, and on which Members may share time, the Minister to be called on to reply not later than ten minutes before the conclusion of Second Stage at approximately 12.45 p.m.; and No. 2, Companies (Auditing and Accounting) Bill 2003 – Report and Final Stages, to be taken not earlier than 1 p.m.
Order of Business.
We agree with the Order of Business as proposed by the Leader.
I am sure the Leader will agree that the OECD is a very reputable international agency and when it reports its findings and makes conclusions about any member country there is a responsibility on that country to respond to those conclusions. I ask the Leader to organise at the earliest possible juncture a debate with the Minister for Finance on the conclusions reached in yesterday's report. This presents a wake up call for this country, given the massive splurge in public expenditure in the past five years, the lack of value for money seen in many public projects and the fact, for instance, that the national development plan is more than 60% over budget and most of its priorities cannot be met.
There are very serious conclusions and recommendations in the report, which we should closely study with the Minister for Finance to see whether the situation can be rescued. It is unfair to suggest that consumers should pay for the Government's recklessness through higher prices. I ask the Leader to allow time for this matter to be fully debated in the House.
As the Leader is aware, on a number of occasions in recent months, Senators on all sides have asked for an open ended debate on neutrality, in which they can give their views openly. Later this morning, my party will publish a detailed policy position on neutrality, which takes a distinctive view of the matter.
Fine Gael has clearly changed its view on that.
Senator bin Laden is clearly very exercised this morning.
Senator Leyden should allow Senator Hayes to speak.
Name and shame him.
The Senator excited me.
He should not be so excitable on a Thursday morning. I would be delighted to hear Senator Leyden's considered views on neutrality.
I am for it.
People have a right to be heard on this issue, in which there is public interest given the events of recent months and a debate would be useful.
I am unhappy with the Order of Business, in particular the taking Report and Final Stages of the Companies (Auditing and Accounting) Bill. We had a very long debate on that Bill yesterday and last night at about 9.30, we learnt that the Report Stage would be taken today. I urge the Minister to reconsider that. I do so now with much more strength, taking into account what Senator Brian Hayes has just said about the OECD report. This is not the first wake up call. That organisation gave us a wake up call two years ago when it said that all legislation passing through these Houses should undergo a regulatory assessment so that we could assess its impact on our economy. The Government approved of that and last year, following a White Paper, both the Tánaiste and Taoiseach announced that all legislation in future would have a regulatory assessment.
Yesterday we had the Committee Stage of the Companies (Auditing and Accounting) Bill on which there has been no regulatory assessment. The Minister accepted no amendments other than Government amendments and by his tone and body language, if not by his words, gave the impression that any amendments he would accept would be taken in the Dáil. That is not the respect and esteem in which we should hold ourselves and we should not take Report Stage today. We should give the Minister of State time to have that regulatory assessment carried out. Even if it is not a full regulatory impact assessment, it would be easy for civil servants to tick off boxes and indicate that the legislation will affect certain areas.
The Bill leads the way in setting up standards in Ireland that are higher than anywhere else in the world. It is a form of legislation that no one else is introducing, yet we hope to attract business and entrepreneurs into Ireland to create jobs and wealth. This legislation is not being given the proper attention, however, although the Minister of State is clearly saying that he will devote time to considering it before it is introduced in the Dáil.
I urge the Leader not to take Report Stage of the Bill today, but to defer it to a later date when the Minister of State will have had time to consider the amendments tabled yesterday by Members on this side of the House. We had a healthy debate on Committee Stage, but the Minister of State made sounds – I accept that he may not have used the actual words – which indicated that it was not his intention to accept any amendments today. I urge the Leader to reconsider.
I support the call for a debate on the findings of the OECD report, which, from accounts in the media, seems to be extremely important. It is not the first wake-up call, but it is further evidence that the Government has squandered the boom. Severe problems will arise as a result and the country faces major challenges in managing the economy. It is important to have an early and detailed debate on the report.
I am concerned by the comments of Senator Quinn on the Companies (Auditing and Accounting) Bill, particularly regarding the Minister of State's intention to take amendments in the Dáil rather than here. All Senators will agree that we are doing an excellent job with legislation; we are anxious that it should be introduced here first in order that we can debate it in detail. I hope that Ministers take on board our dedication to the cause of legislation in that regard and that they will not treat us in a slightly cavalier manner. It is not fair of the Minister of State to table amendments in the Dáil without tabling them here, as then we do not have an opportunity to subject them to the detailed questioning needed. I ask the Leader to take Senator Quinn's views on board.
I share the view that it would be useful and appropriate to debate the OECD report, but the Government is not in need of a wake-up call. If anything, it is the Opposition which needs the wake-up call.
Good man.
It should be noted that the report is complimentary of the way in which the economy has been managed and, in particular, it acknowledges the success of low taxation rates. There are many positives in the report. Nobody on the Government side is complacent about the need to manage the economy well in the future, to keep inflation under control, to encourage competitiveness and to attract inward investment. I am confident that this will be done properly under the aegis of the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the Minister for Finance.
There have been many calls over the years for a debate on planning and all Members would agree with the call from the President of the IAVI to remove the blanket ban on one-off housing. Local authorities are very inconsistent. Some insist on planning applicants being employed in the area, while others put in conditions for five, seven or ten years and include sell-off clauses, which are unconstitutional but which have not been challenged. There is a need for a much more uniform national policy and I ask the Leader to arrange an early debate on this matter.
We could have wider use of biocycles for waste disposal and so on. This would help halt rural decline, as farmers are being savaged in terms of what is happening on their farms. It is wrong that people from rural areas may have sites available to them from their families but can still be prevented from building. They are getting the run-around by planning authorities and the present policy is denying many people affordable housing—
We cannot have a debate on the matter now.
As ever, I appreciate the Chair's advice. I am sure the Leader would like to facilitate such a debate and the Chair will agree it would be useful.
Widespread anxiety has been created in Ennis and County Clare, in general, by extracts from a report, on the future reorganisation of hospitals, which have been leaked to the media. Will the Leader ascertain from the Minister for Health and Children when these reports will be published? Can we have a debate on those reports to establish the facts? Will the Minister allay the fears of people in Ennis and County Clare – though I am sure there are other areas affected – regarding the imminent closure of Ennis Hospital? This has caused widespread anxiety in the area and the Minister should allay fears by stating that there are no proposals of that nature in the report. It is most unsatisfactory.
It is good that it seems as if teams from all countries will be able to attend the Special Olympics. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Health and Children to inform the House how he proposes to organise medical coverage of the games in view of the fact that public health doctors are still on strike and the dispute seems nowhere near being settled? It is very serious to think holding a major event of this nature without proper facilities for epidemiological work being available, if needed.
Regarding Senator Henry's point, it is a pity that we could not have arrived at this stage a couple of weeks ago without creating tremendous fear and hoo-ha. Since the Special Olympics are organised on an all-island basis, what consultation has taken place with public health authorities in the North?
Senator Quinn referred to the Companies (Auditing and Accounting) Bill and I was one of the extremely select band who remained until 9.30 p.m. last night, when Committee Stage concluded. I took a slightly different view of the Minister of State's body language. He was very receptive and patient and my impression was that he took on board much of what was said and that he would bear those comments in mind when seeking formulations that would meet the concerns expressed by Senator Quinn and me. The difficulty is that one could not really expect him to do that overnight. The Minister of State may have been putting this on hold by saying that he would not be able to consider the various amendments by today but that, before the Bill is introduced in the Dáil, he and his officials will have done so.
That introduces the question of the standing of the House, which in many ways is the more important matter of concern to us. The Minister of State did not seem to be in an appalling hurry to get the Bill through. Will the Leader consider whether it is necessary to complete Report Stage today? We could do it in two stages, which would give the Minister of State time – which he may want and which he would use productively – to reflect the concerns of the House. That would meet the requirements of those who contributed and it would also be more conducive to the dignity of the House.
In both Houses over the years, Members have been continually reminded that Ministers have little influence in the work of various agencies, such as the NRA, and that they are not responsible to the Oireachtas for the workings of those agencies. A quick glance at the NRA's recent report and the allocation of funding to local authorities clearly indicates political input and influence. It is no coincidence that some of the largest allocations have been made to counties Kildare, Clare and Donegal, to mention but a few.
There are more cars in County Kildare.
County Galway received one of the lowest allocations despite being the second largest county in Ireland. This is a disgrace and the matter must be taken up with the NRA. I took up the matter of the inaccuracies in the allocations for 2003, as shown in the appendix of the report, with the NRA yesterday but did not get much of a report on the reasons for them. The fact that a major national agency with a considerable spend produced an annual report with such glaring inaccuracies must be taken up. Somebody must take responsibility and the authority must be brought to book. It is a disgrace. If there was political influence in the determination of final allocations, it is an even greater disgrace. I hope the Leader will take up the matter as a matter of urgency with the Minister for the Environment and Local Government.
The Monasterevin bypass accounts for the majority of the money.
I support Senator Coghlan's comments on planning. We debated rural development recently. I support what was said then and this morning by Senator Coghlan. When large estates are built in urban areas and local primary and secondary schools are unable to cope with the population increase, it is poor planning. In rural areas, schools, post offices and Garda stations are closing due to the decline in population and the attitude of planners.
I strongly support Senator Daly's remarks on comments made not only about Ennis Hospital but also about other hospitals. It appears local media in all constituencies are fond of publishing adverse comments made, whether in national reports or by local politicians. Such reports are undermining the confidence of the local population in the services the hospitals provide. It is always a case of the bad story travelling far.
I support calls for a debate on the OECD report. However, I sometimes think we endow reports from abroad with far more importance than we should. The OECD is a group of fine economists but it never errs from right wing conservative orthodoxy and gives little thought to the social requirements of citizens. That remains the case whether reports have the imprimatur of the OECD or emanate from Paris. We should keep this in mind—
Unlike the Economic and Social Research Institute.
—rather than treat such reports as tablets of stone, which we sometimes do.
I wish to raise another issue which has been brought up before. I attended the rugby match in Lansdowne Road last Saturday, as I know others did. I say this to bring some balance to comments I made about rugby in this House a couple of months ago which attracted some attention. To be fair to the IRFU and management at Lansdowne Road, the catering fare provided was somewhat better than the tepid hot dogs and overpriced minerals which will available to Dublin supporters next Sunday at Croke Park.
Is this relevant to the Order of Business? Does the Senator have a question?
It is an issue. It is some months since the report on the options available for the provision of a second national stadium went to Cabinet. This issue arouses considerable public interest and should be debated in the House.
The Ceausescu one?
In relation to the many calls from both sides for a debate on planning, I spoke to the Minister for the Environment and Local Government yesterday and relayed the views expressed in the House on many occasions on one-off housing, recycling, staffing and appeals to An Bord Pleanála and the length of time they take. The Minister is aware of these views and said he would like to come to the House but wanted time to examine all of these areas which he believes are very complex. He will take time to do so but will come to the House when that examination has been completed.
The most contentious issue facing local authorities is incineration. Plans for incinerators in Duleek and Ringaskiddy were turned down. The Minister for the Environment and Local Government and the Minister for Health and Children should look more closely at the issue of incineration. Members may be aware of a study done in Cumbria over 37 years of residents living near incinerators and crematoria. It has come up with definitive medical evidence that babies have a 17% greater risk of being born with spina bifida and that mothers have a 12% greater risk of contracting various heart conditions. In many cases, many of those protesting against incinerators cite medical issues. We now have direct evidence that there are difficulties and should take stock of the situation. Perhaps we need to reconsider our attitude to incineration.
I support calls for a debate on health and the comments on the reports leaked to the media. The Government provided €11 million to purchase Portiuncula Hospital in Ballinasloe from the Franciscan Sisters. It also provided funds to buy a site in Tuam for a hospital. It is, however, regrettable that there is so much bad publicity about these projects which should be supported. The Government has shown the way by providing the money. I call on the Leader to arrange a debate on health funding, particularly in regard to hospitals because there is much concern about the Hanly report which only looked at two areas of the country, yet every hospital about which one talks seems to have been downgraded or is about to close.
I concur, to a certain extent, with Senator Glynn's comments on the importance of planning in large urban areas. One example is Lucan which, according to the Central Statistics Office, is the fastest growing area in the country. Senator Glynn is right in that the fault lies with planning but not necessarily planning by local authorities. In regard to the shortage of school places in the area in which I live, the Department of Education and Science should be taking the initiative because it is ultimately responsible for providing school places and is accountable. We need to discuss that matter as well as joined up government. All local authorities can do is rezone land and set aside sites; it cannot provide school places.
Last week the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs came to the House to discuss rural development. It was clear from the debate that the planning code adversely affected development in rural Ireland. I am co-founder of the Irish Rural Dwellers Association and over the last two years it has come to my notice that there is much outside influence in planning. For instance, no allowance is made for a dispersed village, a cluster village or any of the traditional concepts in that they are all based on the English concept. I bring to the notice of the House that in recent days we discovered that there was a body in Britain monitoring and, by extension, influencing planning in this country. When it was asked if it had such a monitoring body for any other country, it stated, "No". It stated it had one for Ireland because of historic ties. It went on to state it did not regard Ireland as a foreign country, which is particularly worrying. If this is correct, it proves what we have believed in the last couple of years, that is, that there is an influence endeavouring to impose on us concepts of planning not traditional to Ireland. I would welcome a debate on the matter in the immediate future.
We had an interesting discussion last night on the Companies (Auditing and Accounting) Bill 2003. There were differences of opinion on this side of the House on aspects of it.
What is new about that?
The Senator should not interrupt.
We had a healthy debate and Senator Mooney made an excellent contribution to it. I support the request of Senators Quinn and Maurice Hayes. Senator Moylan made the correct decision last night by indicating that the Remaining Stages of the Bill should be taken today. That has allowed the matter to be discussed on the Order of Business. However, the dignity of this House is at stake and I believe we should hold back in respect of the Bill.
I join Senator Daly in calling for urgent clarification on the hospital issue, which is causing genuine concern in the Ennis area and throughout County Clare. Others have mentioned this matter, which is of importance to them.
Will the Leader reject out of hand Senator Ulick Burke's indication that the Government is involved in the influencing of a statutory authority for political gain?
The Senator should read theOfficial Report.
He seems to be suggesting that there is political influence, although we all know that there is none. He will be well aware of the stated Government policy—
We are not suggesting—
—under the NDP and the national spatial strategy, which provides the plank of Government policy that the relevant agencies must discharge. Senator Ulick Burke might accept that.
That is a bit wet behind the ears.
Senator Brian Hayes, the leader of the Opposition, sought a debate on the recently announced OECD report. This would be very useful. I reject his contention that the OECD damned us all. Initial reports in the papers suggest, as Senator Dardis highlighted, that, in many respects, it approves of the way we do our commercial business and run the country. I acknowledge Senator McDowell's point that we are all accepting the OECD report as if it was written on tablets of stone and that the orthodox view it represents does not take heed of real people with real needs living in real communities. That is true, but the OECD can only write its report on the basis of facts and figures.
Senators Brian Hayes and O'Meara called for a debate on neutrality. This would be extremely useful and both sides of the House would be keen to have it. I will certainly request it and I await the publication of the relevant document today.
Senator Quinn referred to the Companies (Auditing and Accounting) Bill 2003, which is on today's Order Paper. He said this legislation is too extreme and made the important point, with which we all agree, that the Seanad amendments should be given greater weight or considered further. I understand that the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Ahern, was extremely receptive and helpful in respect of proposals put to him last night. He is very interested in progressing the Bill and has paid great attention to it. I do not agree with reading into his body language because I believe that it can mean whatever one wants it to mean. We will be taking Report Stage of the Bill today and I am quite sure that he will listen carefully to what the Senators have to say. We all agree that the Seanad amendments should be accorded full weight, listened to and, if possible, acted upon. Our function is to make such amendments.
Senator Coghlan referred to the call to remove the blanket ban on one-off housing and the need to examine this issue.
Senator Daly mentioned the widespread anxiety that has been created by extracts from a report on the future reorganisation of hospitals that have been made available to the media. As soon as the report is available, we will discuss it.
Senator Henry asked that the Minister for Health and Children be invited to come before the House to tell us how he intends to address the health needs of the athletes participating in the Special Olympics in light of the strike of the public health doctors. I have invited him to do so and to refer to the matter of the participating countries, which seems to have been resolved.
Senator Maurice Hayes expressed a view on the body language of the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Ahern, last night. The Senator asked that the Companies (Auditing and Accounting) Bill 2003 be delayed so that further studies and reviews could be carried out. I believe that the Members of Houses of the Oireachtas are keen to see this Bill passed in the Seanad today, however long it takes, so that it can be considered in the Dáil.
Senator Ulick Burke raised the issue of the NRA, which I have found to be extremely punctilious and proper in its duties. It carries out the tasks given to it by the Government of the day. The Senator mentioned the funding allocated to County Kildare but my colleague, Senator Dardis, quite rightly stated that the work on the Monasterevin bypass accounts for much of what seems to be the considerable expenditure in that county. All who travel in that region will be aware of that. I do not have to stand up for the NRA – it is an independent statutory body – but I have found it to be very professional and careful in what it does.
Senator Glynn supported Senator Coghlan on the planning issue and supported Senator Daly's remarks on local hospitals and urban planning. He said the local media seem to publish adverse comments and not the good stories. Sadly, this is the way things happen. If the more positive news is released it will be good for local communities.
Senator Ormonde called for a debate on planning. I am delighted that the Minister said he would be keen to come before the House to discuss this but, before he can do so, reviews still have to be conducted.
Senator Finucane called for a debate on incineration. We all listened with dread to what we heard this morning, but waste will overwhelm us if we do not reach some conclusion regarding how it can be disposed of properly. People have legitimate fears about this difficult issue.
Senator Kitt called for a debate on health and the comments on the report which were leaked to the media. I hope the report is published, after which we can certainly debate it.
Senator Tuffy agreed with Senator Glynn on urban planning, but stated that the Department of Education and Science is ultimately responsible for deciding on the location and size of schools and the provision of school places. That is true.
Senator Ó Murchú's remarks were extremely important, particularly in respect of the influence of the monitoring unit from the UK that is considering our planning system and our traditional concepts of extended villages and groups of houses. The unit aims to impose on us a model of planning based on the English country village, which does not reflect the way we have lived.
Hear, hear.
The Senator's remarks were very disturbing. I suggest that he convey them to the Minister for Environment and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, because we are not aping the English shires and we never did so. Why should we follow their planning guidelines?
Senator White praised last night's healthy debate on the Companies (Auditing and Accounting) Bill 2003. I am glad to hear it was healthy. We hope to conclude the Bill today.
Senator Dooley called for a debate on the hospital in Ennis and spoke about the way in which the NRA carries out its duties. His experience of the NRA echoes my own. It works to a framework laid down by the Government of the day.
Order of Business agreed to.