The Order of Business is No. 1, Bretton Woods Agreements (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2011 — Committee and Remaining Stages, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 1.30 p.m., if not previously concluded; No. 2, report of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges on Standing Order 18: Prayer at Commencement of Sitting, to be taken immediately following No. 1, with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes.
Order of Business
I wish to raise a serious matter, which I already raised in the House the day after the fiscal compact was signed. There were reports then from senior sources in Europe saying the treaty was designed to ensure there would be no referendum on the treaty itself. The Minister of State for European affairs, Deputy Creighton, attended the House and flatly denied that. After I questioned her, the Leader dismissed that suggestion. This morning, however, we read that Germany's Minister for European affairs, Mr. Michael Link, has confirmed that European negotiatiors sought to design the eurozone fiscal compact in such as way as to avoid a referendum. The German Minister visited Dublin yesterday. This is an extremely serious subversion of the democratic process. I am even more concerned that the Minister of State for European affairs could flatly deny this in the House. The day after the treaty was signed, we knew of reports from Europe which said it was designed to facilitate Ireland in order that there would be no referendum here.
I am tabling an amendment to the Order of Business in order that the Minister of State for European affairs can attend the House today to clarify the position. Did she not know that this was the case or did she willingly mislead the House? I put it to you, a Chathaoirligh, that she misled this House because it was very clear. If Germany's Minister for European affairs knows that the treaty was designed to ensure there was no EU referendum, how in God's name does our Minister of State for European affairs not know the same thing? I put it to you, a Chathaoirligh, that she did, as did the Taoiseach and all our negotiators. As this is a very serious departure, I am calling for the Minister of State for European affairs to come here straight after the Order of Business or at any stage today — we will facilitate her — to clarify this position. If she wants to deny what the German Minister said, she should put it on the record.
Is it the Government's view that Bord Gáis, the ESB and Aer Lingus are of strategic importance? Will the Leader confirm that in the original memorandum of understanding no figure or commitment was given to privatise any State assets? In Fine Gael's election manifesto, and in the programme for Government, it was proposed to sell up to €7 billion worth of State assets.
As regards the Government's record on job creation — notwithstanding the positive announcement concerning PayPal earlier this week — Members of the House should not forget that the Government is taking €2 billion from private pension funds to put into job creation by way of its jobs initiative, which simply has not worked. Unemployment rose last year by 0.5% between July and December. Why should anyone trust the Government, a Government that is trying to make a big play on the fact that we will be allowed to use one third of the price realised to create jobs, to sell State assets? It is like selling the TV set to pay for the TV licence. It makes no sense. What I want to know is whether Aer Lingus is of strategic importance to the Government and the State. Are Bord Gáis and the ESB of strategic importance to the State?
In response to Senator O'Brien's proposed amendment to the Order of Business, the Minister of State with responsibility for European Affairs has been in the Chamber at least twice to discuss the fiscal compact.
That is where the Minister of State said——
We need a referendum.
The Deputy Leader to continue, without interruption.
Let me clarify; she denied this.
Furthermore, in my view, it would be premature to have a debate on it, until we have the advice of the Attorney General, which is awaited.
On a point of order, the Minister of State came into this House and denied that the treaty was worded——
That is not a point of order.
Will Senator O'Brien, please, resume his seat?
——in such a way that it would deny the people a referendum.
On the sale of State assets, I take issue with Senator O'Brien and other Fianna Fáil speakers who have been suggesting that this was never envisaged in the original memorandum of understanding——
It was not.
——which is utter nonsense.
It is Fine Gael policy that you are implementing.
If the Senator looks at the wording of the original memorandum of understanding, it states:
State authorities will consult with the Commission Services on the results of this assessment with a view to setting appropriate targets for the possible privatisation of state-owned assets.
No clear time frame is given.
Use the €5 billion that the Ministers, Deputies Brendan Howlin and Pat Rabbitte——
(Interruptions.)
Senator Bacik is posturing.
Bare faced lies is what I would say.
Clearly, Senators do not want to hear the truth. Fianna Fáil is afraid of letting the truth go on the record.
We are on the record the whole time about it.
The Senator is misleading the House.
The great protectors of State bodies and the public service — the Labour Party.
Of course, the privatisation of State assets was on the agenda.
The Senator said it was impossible. She said it herself.
Clearly, as I said, they do not want this to be put on the record of the House.
Senator Daly is quite correct.
To suggest that Fianna Fáil did not envisage the sale of State assets in the original memorandum of understanding is nonsense and they know it. They are being disingenuous about it. It is a major breakthrough that we are now having one third of the proceeds for reinvestment in the economy——
That is an absolute joke.
I do not trust the Government parties.
——rather than the full portion of any privatisation to go into repayments.
Can we allow Senator Bacik to speak?
They look for a debate, throw allegations across the floor and then they cannot take it when somebody reads from the original memorandum of understanding——
I cannot wait to get the chance to respond.
——which is just typical behaviour from that side of the House.
The Senator is contradicting the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan.
Senator Bacik to continue, without interruption.
It is typical behaviour from the other side of the House. They are afraid to hear the truth.
I call for a debate on the Pathways to Work programme, which is being launched today. I very much welcome this new programme, which will bring together the Departments of Social Protection and Education and Skills. This is a significant initiative to ensure we see proper job activation measures put in place and a really joined up way of thinking in terms of putting the long-term unemployed back to work and giving people incentives to go into training and re-employment and come off the long-term live register. This is a major exciting initiative of the Ministers, Deputies Burton and Quinn, and the entire Government. It would be very useful to debate it. I know the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, will come to the House on 6 March and perhaps we could include a debate on Pathways to Work at that time.
I wish to follow on from Senator Crown and express the sympathy of the House on the deaths of two journalists in Syria. We need to have a cross-party motion on the need to protect civilian lives in Syria. It is appalling what is happening, with the Syrian bombardment, and to see the number killed yesterday, including children, is really appalling. Perhaps next week we could agree a cross-party motion.
News has just broken that An Bord Pleanála has turned down the children's hospital. What can be more important than the care of sick children? Once again, listening to "Today with Pat Kenny" I heard Phillip Lynch say that we have wasted €25 million and now €35 million on the process and consultation on the new children's hospital. I ask the Leader to ask the Minister for Health and others in charge of planning to move on and not spend another four years and another €35 million fighting about whether the hospital should move to a site in the M50 area, which it should, because there are 26 counties in this country and the middle of Dublin was never the right location.
Yesterday I held a very successful and productive session with a number of the country's leading business women, focusing on the challenges of doing business in Ireland today. One of the strands that came up repeatedly in the discussion was the cost associated with administrative compliance. Many of the ladies suggested that these costs often prevent small business owners from expanding their business and creating new jobs. I now identify one very simple step to lower administrative costs on small businesses, which has presented itself. It comes in the form of an optional directive, agreed earlier this week at a meeting of Finance Ministers at the European Union. The directive would allow small companies to be exempted from publishing annual accounts in a bid to lessen their bureaucratic costs and to encourage small firms to take on more staff. The rules will apply to companies which have an average of ten employees or fewer over the course of an accounting year, with a balance sheet of under €350,000 and a net turnover of €700,000. To qualify for the exemption, companies must satisfy at least two of these criteria. Germany and France are in favour of this directive. The new rule will not overrule national obligations to keep records showing businesses' transactions but should lessen the administrative costs of setting up a small business. Will the Leader seek clarity on the Government's position on this directive and use his influence to encourage the Government to sign up to this worthwhile proposal, which will make a major difference to business owners who are the life, soul and blood of the economy?
I express regret that a very interesting and sometimes stormy debate on the media yesterday was not reported at all. I would have thought the media would be interested in it.
It was on Twitter.
I support my colleagues, particular Senator Mary Ann O'Brien, who spoke about the children's hospital. This is an absolute disaster. I raised this issue a number of years ago and suggested that it be sent to an international review panel, including planning and medical experts. It would have taken about a month to six weeks, but that was not done. It actually suited me to have the hospital where it was, in terms of the metro, but I think one must put the children first and this is a disaster because there will be no other appeal. This is a decision on an appeal. I do not know what can be done about it, but something needs to be done urgently. Perhaps the aspects that conflict with the visual amenity can be amended in some redrawn plan, but we must act urgently for the sake of children.
On the question of privatisation of State assets, I am horrified at the notion we should be grateful for being allowed to use one third of our own money. That shows an extraordinary degree of obsequiousness. Selling off utilities is almost always disastrous. Let us look at the ESB — the parallel is in the privatisation of energy production in America, particularly in California, which gave us Enron, a lovely bonanza for the public. It led to bankruptcies, people losing their pensions, higher costs and massive electrical blackouts across the state. That is what one might possibly expect. With regard to Coillte, imagine selling the forests of Ireland. Let nobody who votes for this ever again talk about the use of Irish oak or Irish timber for the building of the British Navy, because we are flogging it off wholesale. It reminds me of James Joyce's comment that there were people who would not only sell their country for thruppence but they would get down on their bended knee and thank the Almighty Christ that they had a country to sell. That is what is going on, which is appalling. I notice that the newspapers reported that one of the companies tendering for Coillte was headed by the former Taoiseach, Mr. Bertie Ahern. That is interesting. What about safeguarding access to the walks in the forests? I speak from experience in my family where a relative sold trees but did not specify a date by which they had to be harvested.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Yes, I am asking for a debate on this subject. We need to be very careful to protect the trees. If we are going to make this disastrous decision, at least let us ensure that it will have the least hazardous outcome possible.
I cannot wait to get the chance to respond.
Perhaps we could have a debate on foreign affairs as we have not had one for a long time. There is the question of the journalists who were killed. It is appalling. They are particularly at risk, as are human rights defenders. Although I am a long-time admirer of President Chávez, he seems to have lost his marbles totally, or his supporters have, in attacking Mr. Capriles, who is his most significant opponent, in a horrible anti-Semitic way with the Star of David on the front of the newspapers.
The Senator's time has expired.
I am calling for a debate on foreign affairs. This was linked also curiously with homophobic comments against him. It is disgusting.
I raise the issue of the proposed sale of some State assets. I commend the Government for its commitment from the troika that one third of the moneys raised will be kept for jobs initiatives and to develop employment. That is a far cry from the original commitment whereby all the money was to go into the black hole to——
There was no original commitment.
There was.
There was none.
Senator Byrne——
On a point of order, we have lies, damned lies——
That is not a point of order and if the Senator——
I can quote the paragraph.
I can requote it but I will not as I do not wish to waste my time as it was already quoted by Senator Bacik. In regard to the word "strategic", the Government's commitment is clear. The Bord Gáis transmission networks and interconnectors will not be put up for sale because it is recognised that they are strategic. The energy business, however, will be put up for sale, although the ESB is not for sale. Some of the non-strategic power generation is to be sold but the minority shareholding in ESB is to be retained. There was a proposal that would be done but that is not going to happen. If and when market conditions are correct, the 25% stake we have in Aer Lingus will be sold. What good is it to us when we look at the debacle in Shannon some years ago when Aer Lingus removed——
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
I ask the Leader for a debate on the proposed sale of non-strategic assets. It is clear they are non-strategic as outlined in the statement from the Government.
I regard power generation as strategic.
In regard to Coillte, the land will not be sold but the crop, the forest, may yet be sold. That issue will be looked at. No decision has been made but it is up for consideration. The clear statement is that land will not be sold but merely the crop.
We are selling the spoon and keeping the knife and fork.
I would welcome an informed debate and not people grabbing headlines and speaking off the tops of their heads without informing themselves of the actual provisions.
I propose an amendment to the Order of Business, namely, that the Minister for Health come to the House immediately to explain the implications of this morning's decision by An Bord Pleanála, which is an outrage. An Bord Pleanála's decision refers to the impact on visual amenity, detraction from the character of protected buildings and overdevelopment of the site. Are these issues about which we should be concerned when one considers the headlines yesterday of children lying on trolleys for 12 hours and a 700% increase in waiting lists for paediatric patients throughout the country? Where is the joined up workings of Government? Can nobody in An Bord Pleanála liaise with the Departments of the Environment, Community and Local Government and Health in the context of critical infrastructural projects?
Senators
No.
It is independent.
Senator MacSharry to continue, without interruption.
There must be a level of joined up thinking in the Government. I recall the imagination of one tweeter who said: "So Bord Pleanála which oversaw the Celtic tiger planning fiasco stops the only viable construction project for the entire country." This is an outrage. That is why I demand that the Minister for Health come to the House immediately to explain this decision, which is a disaster, and indicate if it is the Government's intention to seek a judicial review in the High Court, which would have to be done within a few weeks, to resolve the issue. It does not bear thinking about that we may have to go back to the beginning of a process that has taken many years, including arguments about the site, and cost €35 million. We thought we were there but now the interests of the impact on visual amenity and the detraction from the character of protected structures, which is a highly subjective view of individual planners have taken precedence. It is not remotely as important as the paediatric care required for children. We must put the children first and if that requires legislation through the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and the Government to take a hand in the planning process, in the interests of public health, that is what must happen.
We are not going there - sorry. The Senator will not get my support on that issue.
I call Senator Landy.
On a point of order, this is the most dangerous thing I have ever heard in my life.
Will the Senator, please, resume his seat?
I do not agree with this. It is terrible for children but where a government starts interfering in the planning process, one is right down the rotten road of corruption. I certainly——
(Interruptions).
I call on my friend Senator MacSharry to withdraw that statement ——
Will the Senator, please, resume his seat?
——because it is an appalling comment to have made.
In fairness, I will withdraw nothing which puts children's health first, regardless of who shouts or for how long they shout. Children must come first.
Unfortunately, my voice is not as strong as that of the two previous speakers and, therefore, I will not contest it. I want to ease Senator Norris's concerns when he gets into a theatrical state. The forests of Ireland will be open to him to go for a walk and will not be closed——
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader, not Senator Norris?
I am going to ask the question but the Cathaoirleach has given great latitude to previous speakers.
The Senator could go for a nice walk in the sea breezes.
I raise an issue that has been the subject of much concern for members, that is, the processing of medical cards. In recent weeks, I have been in correspondence with the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Róisin Shortall, who has responsibility in this area. I assure members, through the Minister, that the PCRS will come to the House and provide an information seminar. In her letter the Minister of State said she was keen to set up an information session for Members of the Oireachtas on medical card processes and procedures and the recent changes and on how best to assist constituents with medical card applications. She has said she has already discussed this issue with the PCRS and that it is very much amenable to it. A review of the process is taking place in Finglas and when that review is complete the PCRS will come into the House and provide a seminar in the AV room for all Members.
I understand the Joint Committee on Health and Children will visit the unit but all of us who are not members of the committee would be excluded from attending. I welcome the seminar and ask the Leader to co-operate with the Minister to ensure all members are made aware of it to ensure a good turnout on this issue which is of much concern.
I remind the House of the visit today of archbishop John Barwa of Cuttack-Bhubaneswar, Orissa, India. As I mentioned yesterday, the archbishop is in Ireland as a guest of Aid to the Church in Need and comes from one of the poorest regions in India. It is one of the regions where there has been intense and sustained persecution of Christian people. Some horrific incidents have taken place such as the torching of more than 4,000 houses and 252 churches, without counting the loss of life. More than 500 Christians have been killed and more than 54,000 people have been made homeless. It is an opportunity for us to hear at first hand what some of the most vulnerable people are suffering. This can inform our thoughts as we continue our discussions about human rights and solidarity with people in different parts of the world. I invite my colleagues to the audio visual room at 12.15 p.m. I appreciate Members are busy doing other things but if they can attend it would be helpful and much appreciated.
I wish to raise the issue of a major rip-off in respect of additional insurance warranties which add up to 40% to the purchase price of goods. This happens mainly in the high-tech goods area. An example is an iPad costing €487; the additional cost of €149 is to cover damage and breakdown for two years and theft in the first year. When one takes out the small print, the company offering that particular cover does not include iPads.
This matter would be more suited to the Adjournment.
No, it would not. I am calling on the Government to investigate the Irish warranty market because this is a case of buyer beware. Many problems with electrical equipment will be covered already by the manufacturer's warranty. These additional policies sold at the counter by staff on commission allow the purchaser little time to consider the cover's details and its cost. This is a major issue that needs to be investigated. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation to examine it as customers are paying in excess for cover they may not need at all for electrical goods?
Ba mhaith liom tagairt a dhéanamh don chinneadh atáá dhéanamh maidir le díol acmhainní Stáit. "Privatisation is the road back to autocracy, in which a hollowed-out state is bereft of anything meaningful to attract the support of the citizen —especially the marginalised, excluded from the mainstream of society." So said Frederick Powell, a political scientist whose same lines were quoted last Tuesday at the London School of Economics by Uachtarán na hÉireann, Michael D. Higgins, in a fine speech.
I thought it was the Tánaiste, Deputy Gilmore, who said those lines.
Yesterday, Ireland's largest trade union stated, "Today's announcement regarding the sale of some public enterprises is a sad day for the Irish people and a tragedy for the Labour Party."
There seems to be confusion on both sides of the House as to what the troika said or did not say to the previous and the current Governments. When my party leader, Deputy Adams, met the troika, he was told categorically that while the troika favours privatisation, there is nothing in the memorandum of understanding to the effect that the Government must pursue it. This is ultimately a Government decision.
Exactly, that is the point.
He is telling the truth.
It is in the memorandum.
It is not in it.
It is only right and proper that the Minister responsible attends the House to discuss the sale of these State assets. We feel it is absolutely crazy to be selling off profitable State assets which should be invested in our nation's future. It is important we discuss these issues both in the Seanad and in the Dáil as opposed to discussing them by press release and through the media. Will the Leader ask the Minister responsible to attend the House as soon as possible to debate this matter?
The dial-to-stop telephone line, set up to fight the scourge of drug dealing in our communities, is now inactive. It was not an emergency service but set up by a coalition of voluntary community groups to build up information to solve crime. Much costs were outlaid in distributing leaflets to promote the number. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Justice and Equality to reinstate the line or attend the House for a debate on the value of this line to communities for several months?
I second Senator Darragh O'Brien's amendment to the Order of Business that the Minister of State, Deputy Creighton, come to the House to explain her comments on the conflict with the Germans over the fiscal compact. In the context of that and of the allegations made about privatisation and the memorandum of understanding, it is important we have a debate on the truth in this Chamber. I am calling for such a debate.
The Minister of State, Deputy Creighton, denied repeatedly in this House that there was any effort to avoid a referendum. Several weeks ago, I took part in Vincent Browne's show with her during which, under intense questioning from Vincent Browne, she repeatedly denied there was any question of avoiding a referendum. Now we have her German counterpart — presumably Lucinda was having tea and coffee with this Minister——
It is the Minister of State, Deputy Creighton.
Yes, I apologise. Her German counterpart yesterday said, "We are trying to design everything that is on the table in a way which would be okay in the eyes of the Attorney General and the Irish Constitution so that no referendum is needed." The Minister of State, Deputy Creighton, denied that in this House, on television and in other places.
The Labour Party, but also Senator Clune, now claim there was some agreement to pay off €5 billion worth of debt from the privatisation of State assets. There was no such agreement.
It is in the memorandum.
The €5 billion figure came from the Ministers, Deputies Rabbitte and Howlin. Senator Clune earlier claimed there was an agreement to pay down debt through privatisation. There is no such agreement in the memorandum of understanding. A study into the matter was called for in the troika agreement originally with the previous Fianna Fáil Government. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, has stated on the record of the Dáil that he is not apportioning blame as to who is responsible for privatisation because he wants it as it is Fine Gael policy. Fine Gael is now implementing that policy with the help and support of the Labour Party without any pressure from the troika or our international partners.
Who commissioned the McCarthy report which directed there should be privatisation?
(Interruptions).
Does Senator Byrne have a question for the Leader?
Senator Byrne talks about the truth.
Senator Byrne to continue, without interruption.
The Fianna Fáil Party stood over several privatisations, many successful and some not so.
Such as Eircom.
Yes, like Eircom which I accept.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
We must have a debate on the truth because there are too many lies in politics.
Let us have a debate on the truth then. Bring it on.
It is adding to public cynicism about politics.
How far back does the Senator want us to go with this debate?
Either the Irish Minister or the German Minister is telling lies. They both cannot be telling the truth.
The Senator cannot make a charge that someone is telling lies.
I withdraw the word "lies".
What about Fianna Fáil saying the EU and the IMF were not in the country when they were?
One of the Ministers is not correct. One claimed there was an avoidance of a referendum while the other said there was not. The Minister of State, Deputy Creighton, should attend the House to tell us the truthful position.
We also need the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, who has given the truthful position, in response to parliamentary questions from Deputy Michael McGrath and Sinn Féin, that the sale of State assets is Fine Gael policy which it is happy to do of its own volition. The Minister should tell the Senators on his own side the truthful position.
We are in government.
I want to return to the serious issue of An Bord Pleanála's decision on the national children's hospital. It highlights the value of living in a democracy. Senator MacSharry called for intervention with An Bord Pleanála. It would be a sad day if that happened as it is an independent body. Maybe too much intervention in the past has led us down this road. The New Childrens Hospital Alliance never felt the Mater site was the right one.
Fine Gael backed it.
I am referring to the site of the proposed national children's hospital. Senator MacSharry has called for intervention with An Bord Pleanála regarding its decision on the Mater site but I say there should be no intervention. There have been calls for the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, to attend the House today on this matter. Instead, he should be knocking heads together to ensure the integration work on the ground that has been done already is not wasted.
He has five weeks to go to the High Court on this issue.
The Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, should knock heads together, bring them out to south-west Dublin and Crumlin, get them on the site and not to delay this any more.
Parish pump politics again.
An Bord Pleanála's decision stated the "dominant, visually incongruous structure . . . would have a profound negative impact on the appearance and visual amenity of the city skyline." Having a town planner, a spatial planner, a civil engineer, an eminent member of the Environmental Protection Agency——
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
I do. I would have thought people well trained in planning would have added traffic to that description. There was a crash two weeks ago near the Mater which nearly closed the city down.
Will the Leader ensure the Minister for Health is on the ground knocking heads together to ensure the money already spent is not wasted? Will he also get the Minister to attend the House next week to inform us about the decision he has made on the national children's hospital? Integration work has already been done on the medical site. If we had listened to the doctors, the National Childrens Hospital Alliance, we would be better off today.
I congratulate the Reverend Roy Patton from Ballybay, County Monaghan, who was elected moderator of the Presbyterian Church at the weekend. He combined an upbringing in the stony grey soil of Monaghan with the academic groves of Trinity College Dublin to become the national leader of an all-Ireland body. One of the best developments in this country in recent times is the improvement in the relations between North and South and between the different religious traditions here. I wish the moderator well and extend our congratulations to him and his family in Monaghan and north Down.
I wish to follow on from what has been raised by other Members regarding medical cards. My office has not had any trouble with the delivery of medical cards.
We will send them to the Senator.
Deputy Michael Healy-Rae knows how to sort them.
Senator Sheahan should be allowed to speak without interruption.
I can only state what I find. To that end, I noted this morning that in Great Britain £90 million has been paid to doctors for medical card holders who have moved away and emigrated. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Health to check that GPs in this country are not being paid the annual fee for medical card patients who may have moved elsewhere or emigrated?
Yesterday I spoke in the House about the democratic deficit and today we have an incredible situation where the German Minister for European affairs, Michael Link, is lying. That is extraordinary.
Bring him into the House and we will talk to him.
It is up to the Government side to bring him to the House.
The Senator cannot say that a Minister of any Government is lying.
Someone is lying. When asked if the fiscal compact agreed in Brussels last month had been designed in such a way that it would not need a referendum in this country, Mr. Link replied, "Exactly".
Will the Senator withdraw the word "lie"?
I am sorry, perhaps he was misled and he did not quite understand what was going on, because someone does not understand what is going on. Perhaps the Government does not know what is going on.
Something was lost in translation.
According to the German Minister for European affairs the Attorney General was consulted on the fiscal compact. He said she knew all about it and was consulted every step of the way to ensure that we avoided a referendum. The Government tried hard to avoid a referendum and it might well succeed, which is a failing of democracy because if it was afraid of facing the people that does not say much about this country or the proposal being put before them on the fiscal compact.
Under Article 56 of the Constitution the Attorney General can come into this House and explain to us whether she was consulted every step of the way on the fiscal compact. Is the German Minister for European affairs telling us the truth when he says that we were consulted or is our Minister lying to us?
Please, Senator.
It is a question, not a statement.
Will the Senator, please, withdraw the word "lie"?
It is a question. Was someone lying to us?
There is an implication in it.
The Government said the IMF was not in this country. Why did we not have a referendum on the bank bailout?
I ask Senator Daly to withdraw his remark.
I will not withdraw it because of the fact that somebody is telling us lies.
I was at the meeting yesterday. Why did Senator Daly not ask the Minister himself?
Either the German Minister for European affairs is lying to us or our own Ministers are lying to us, but someone is not telling us the truth.
The Senator is implying that a Minister told lies.
I am sorry.
I ask him to withdraw the implication.
If it is a lie, commonly known as an untruth, would you accept it, a Chathaoirligh?
The Senator should, please, withdraw the word "lie".
Someone is misleading the House.
Will the Senator withdraw the word "lie" without qualification?
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
If anyone is lying to us, I would like to know about it.
The Senator is out of time.
I ask that the Attorney General attend the House as provided for under Article 56 of the Constitution.
On a point of order——
Senator Bacik can raise a point of order.
Senator Daly is throwing around the word "lying". If there is any sense to the rules and regulations of the House——
Coming from the Senator——
I did not accuse anyone of lying.
When the Senator spoke about the fiscal compact she also quoted——
Senator Daly, please.
I did not accuse any Member of lying. I said Members could not face the truth.
The Senator should resume her seat.
Senator Bacik was misleading the House this morning when she said that it was in the programme for Government that we should sell State assets. She quoted herself——
The Senator should respect the Chair.
Yes, a Chathaoirligh.
I ask the Senator to withdraw the word "lie".
A Chathaoirligh, at your request I will withdraw the word "lie" and say that someone was telling an untruth.
A Chathaoirligh, that is not good enough.
I do not know who that was but when the Attorney General comes into the House perhaps she will be able to clarify whether she was consulted every step of the way on the fiscal compact.
On a point of order, I would like a definition of an "untruth" please because there is absolutely——
I will supply the Member with a dictionary as soon as I get a chance.
As far as I am concerned, there is no difference between a lie and an untruth. The latter word should be included in Standing Orders as well.
Our good colleagues opposite are getting into a flap needlessly. It is only an Ard-Fheis that is coming up, not an election. I have the greatest respect for Senator Darragh O'Brien, as he well knows. He started this morning with some unnamed source and then it became a German MP.
That was four weeks ago.
It was on the front page of The Irish Times.
The truth is that we all know the fiscal compact is very important for this country. It depends on the wording and compatibility with the Constitution. In the first instance it is a matter on which the Attorney General will advise. Members should be patient. Her advice could be imminent.
The Attorney General was advised on it already.
Senator Coghlan should be allowed to speak without interruption.
She was advised all the way along.
I wish to add——
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
We should be calm and patient. I am sure that is what the Leader would counsel. We heard Mr. McCarthy this morning on "Morning Ireland". We know about the difficulties we have. Anything that will be dealt with will be non-core. Nothing is going to happen this year. Nothing will happen until the optimum prices are available and markets recover. We should remain calm and cool.
The voice of reason.
I urge the Leader to give the Senators wise counsel when he responds.
I second Senator MacSharry's amendment to the Order of Business. I join Senator Barrett in wishing well to Reverend Roy Patton, a native of Ballybay, County Monaghan, who was elected moderator of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland at the weekend. I congratulate him and wish him well. Perhaps at some stage he would like to visit the House as our guest.
When will the social welfare and pension Bill be published and come to the House?
I am always mesmerised by the enthusiasm of the other side for a referendum, in particular when one takes into account the position of south Kerry in the previous two referenda when Fianna Fáil could not be found. Party members did not knock on one door to explain to people what was involved in the referendum.
Where was Senator Daly then?
The Senator was all around the place playing a violin like all her Fine Gael colleagues.
The Senator referred to a democratic deficit but there was very much a democratic deficit because he did not explain to people what the referendum was about. South Kerry had one of the highest "No" votes in those two referenda; more than in any other part of the country.
Donegal was higher.
When he talks about a democratic deficit, he should talk about that.
I will give the Senator an opportunity to visit south Kerry to canvass for the European elections.
The Senator is continually interrupting the House.
Senator Burke is referring to me.
The Senator had his chance to speak. Senator Burke should be allowed to speak without interruption.
I was pleased to be in south Kerry to explain to people what was involved in the referendum. An allegation was made that the Government consulted with the Attorney General during negotiations. Of course the Attorney General was involved in consultations on any matter involving a treaty at all times. It is part of the role of the Attorney General to give legal advice in any negotiations. To suggest that the role of the Attorney General was misused is a little rich.
We did not say that.
It is only appropriate——
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Allegations were made in the House today about the Minister. They do not stand up and it is wrong that allegations are made. We are waiting for a response from the Attorney General on the referendum. That response will be available within the next two weeks and we will deal with the matter at that stage.
I must admit that I am incandescent with rage to discover that we live in a "banana-pleanála republic", which is what we now have as a result of the catastrophic decision about the national children's hospital. I know others have raised the matter but a couple of facts must go onto the public record. There were very fine arguments to be advanced in favour of developing the Crumlin hospital site. I supported that plan. Others had very fine arguments for developing it in the Mater. The main argument is that it would be beside a large general hospital and that there would be synergies, efficiencies, economies of scale and increased expertise. There was a downside to it which related to the physical plant, geography, location and traffic issues. There were plus and minus arguments on all sides. It does not necessarily speak very well of my profession because I believe that none of the opinions which were articulated at that time were completely disinterested. Most people acted out of some degree of chauvinism on behalf of their own institution. People from UCD favoured the Mater site, people from Trinity College and the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland, RCSI, favoured the Crumlin site, people from the north side favoured the Mater, people affiliated with Temple Street favoured the Mater and people affiliated with Crumlin opposed the Mater. This was the way it shook down. Everyone knew a decision was going to be made. As someone once stated, medical politics are so vicious because so little is at stake, but there is much at stake in this case. The wise consensus was that, after the decision was made, those who proposed a different solution would be quiet, sit on their hands, lick their wounds and go ahead with the decision. The decision was to develop the Mater site. Some people believed it was a good one, some a bad one, but at least it was made.
The grounds for turning down the development have been used as an excuse against every necessary short-term and medium-term investment in pediatric services. They should not be used now, as we are building a children's hospital. The grounds are aesthetic and architectural. If the hospital was built, there would be a prison in front of it, a second hospital beside it and another hospital behind it. The street beside it is not necessarily regarded as being one of the great beautiful boulevards of Europe. The hospital's construction is being blocked because people believe it is too tall, not because it is the wrong site for traffic or for medical reasons. This does not wash. We cannot allow this to be an excuse for endlessly putting the development on the long finger. An urgent decision needs to be made to overrule An Bord Pleanála, to amend the plan or to go ahead. Aesthetics and architecture are being used as excuses to delay the development.
In other sad news, it appears that the Iranian Government has launched the next stage of the legal process to execute Pastor Nadarkhani for no other crime than being a Christian. I thank the House for its attention and I hope the Leader will bring this issue to the attention of the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade. I also hope that the Minister for Health, in whom I have great faith, will quickly and decisively intervene to get this pediatric hospital business straightened out once and for all.
The Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, is disappointed by An Bord Pleanála's decision regarding the children's hospital. A great deal of time has been lost and an expert group was convened. We are discussing the urgent treatment of sick children. Given the waiting lists, we cannot afford to waste time and money. There is merit in the suggestion that the Government should explore the possibility of a judicial review. Will the Leader convey this message?
I welcome the Pathways to Work programme being launched by the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, today. She is coming to grips with helping people on the live register return to employment. The programme contains a number of measures and people will be led through the process by the hand to get suitable work and placements. Everyone in receipt of social welfare payments has entered into a contract with the State for supports. People must show that they are actively engaging with work and the State in this regard. A question has been put to me. Quite a number of people around the country are involved in Occupy campaigns, for example, Occupy Dame Street and Occupy Eyre Square. Are they actively seeking work or availing of social welfare? There need to be checks, as it is all coming out of the public purse. We all have a duty to engage actively.
I wish to ask the same question of the same Department.
Is there a question for the Leader?
As part of the Pathways to Work initiative, the employment service of FÁS will be housed in the Department of Social Protection. This is a positive step, as a new relationship will be built with employers. However, I caution the Minister. If she is planning to make employers pay for sick leave, she will endanger that relationship. She is on to a good thing, but let us proceed carefully in respect of the issue of sick pay. The Leader was asked for a debate on this matter yesterday.
The Senator has gone over time.
Will he proceed to arrange for that debate?
I join my colleague, Senator Norris, in raising the issue on the ongoing carnage in Syria. I raised the matter on the Order of Business some weeks ago when innocent children were killed by the Syrian regime. Two distinguished journalists, a French photojournalist and a print journalist, have now been killed and there is a suggestion that the regime is targeting journalists who operate on the front line. Sometimes, their work is considerably undervalued, but we would not know what was happening without them. The city of Homs is being pummelled into dust and innocents are being killed wholesale, yet the world seems to be standing by and doing nothing about it.
Will the Leader ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, who is chairman of the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe, OSCE, and has made it his priority to raise human rights issues in that capacity, to state Ireland's position unequivocally and clearly, that being, we are opposed to the killing of innocent civilians and the Syrian regime should stop and enter into mediation talks? The regime should also allow humanitarian agencies into the country, including the Red Cross and the Red Crescent. Humanitarian agencies are more than willing to help unfortunate civilians in Syria's various cities.
The situation is yet another example of the international community turning aside. Two of the major powers have already thwarted the UN's efforts to resolve the situation. As we speak, a human rights disaster of unprecedented proportions is under way. No Senator would agree that it should be tolerated by any civilised society.
I will comment briefly on a subject that has been raised by a number of colleagues, namely, the sale of State assets. The rewriting of history, which is called revisionism, generally sees a few decades pass before people reflect and perform significant U-turns in print or spoken word. This morning, I listened to the Dáil Leader of the Opposition, Deputy Martin. It was the quickest piece of revisionism I have ever heard. It was a pathetic attempt by a party leader to pretend that the past had not happened. He pretended that the former Government, of which he was a member for many years, did not commission the McCarthy report on the possible sale of State assets. He attempted to rewrite the fact that Fianna Fáil in government sold Telecom Éireann, TSB and three quarters of Aer Lingus, raided the Central Bank and the National Pensions Reserve Fund, NPRF——
We set up the NPRF.
——and would have sold its members' mothers to keep itself in political power for another day.
Let us be realistic in the debate on State assets. The Government announced a proposal yesterday. Let us have a reasonable and mature debate on it. State assets are owned by the people, but they are not State antiques and do not need to remain in situ forever. They must be put to their best use for the people. I hope that the Opposition will stop rewriting history and join with us in having a constructive debate on how best to protect the taxpayer and return the unemployed to work through the considered and useful disposal of State assets. What I heard this morning from the so-called Leader of the Opposition in the Dáil was pathetic. The people are not stupid. They know what happened last year and two years ago. They know why and by whom this country was bankrupted.
Deputy Adams is the real Leader of the Opposition now.
He is.
I would agree with that.
I look forward to the Taoiseach's visit to the House to dialogue with us. I hope that visit is imminent. I compliment him on the visit of the Chinese Vice President, Mr. Xi Jinping. Of the world's population of 6.7 billion, 20% live in China. One in every five people on the planet is Chinese. The weekend's visit was exciting and spine-chilling. For Ireland, it was as dramatic as the day we joined the EU in 1973. There are no words adequate to describe the opportunities for boosting trade and employment. Credit is due to the many people, including Bertie Ahern, who forged these relationships over the years.
It is all about the sale of State assets.
I congratulate the Taoiseach on a most successful visit. It was clear from the pictures in the newspapers that the man thoroughly enjoyed himself. His visit to the emerald isle dominated the Chinese media, which are thrilled that China is forging a relationship with a country of 4.4 million people. China's population increases by that figure every year. This is a milestone in the trade history of our country which will provide a tremendous boost for jobs and help us get out of our current recession.
I listened with great interest to Senator Crown's description of medical politics. It is sad to think that self-centred medical politics caused such delay to the construction of a hospital for our children. For the past ten to 15 years, during the greatest boom we will probably ever experience, the project could never even get off the ground.
I call for a debate on planning in this country. The Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government with responsibility for planning was in the House last night to deal with a Private Members' Bill. We need to have a mature discussion on planning. An Bord Pleanála has done enormous damage to its own credibility with this decision. It already lacked credibility among ordinary members of the public because of earlier decisions which overturned the recommendations of its inspectors. This country needs an appeals mechanism that enjoys the confidence of the people. Decisions like the one made today further erode the people's confidence in the appeals process. I ask the Leader to arrange time for a constructive debate on planning.
I am disappointed with Senator Bradford because he is usually very fair. The statement Deputy Martin made this morning was 100% accurate and he was clear and statesmanlike in his approach. He merely pointed out that the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, and the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, are rewriting history. He said that both Ministers lied to the Irish public in this regard.
On a point of order, the Senator said "lied" again and I think he is imputing remarks.
I did not say it. I am repeating what the Minister, Deputy Martin, said this morning on "Morning Ireland".
He is no longer a Minister.
The leader of Fianna Fáil and former Minister ——
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
I am just making the point, for the sake of balance, that the Labour Party is in disarray because of privatisation.
Far from it.
Fine Gael has always been in favour of privatisation and Fianna Fáil has supported privatisation.
Of course it would.
Senator Leyden to continue, without interruption.
Let us have a balanced debate on this issue. I disagree with Senator Bradford because I support the statement made by the leader of Fianna Fáil, Deputy Martin. He clearly outlined the facts on this issue. Senators should listen to the broadcast.
I ask the Leader to arrange an early debate with the Minister of State at the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Kelly, on taxis and taxi regulation. We have great expertise in this House with Senator Barrett, who is an expert on transport, and other Senators who are familiar with the situation first-hand. As I was on my way to Leinster House on Tuesday morning I observed approximately 50 taxis at Heuston Station. I understand the Minister of State intends to introduce special hackney regulations for rural areas.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
It would be worthwhile if the Minister of State came to the House to explain his policies in this regard. The regulator could also be asked to explain why there are so many taxis. It must be soul destroying to sit for hours at Heuston Station while waiting for a fare.
They had to be moved because they were causing a traffic hazard.
Senator Leyden is over time.
I am surprised my friends in the taxi industry are not protesting outside Leinster House.
Twenty seven Senators made contributions on the Order of Business and six more Senators have indicated that they wish to speak. However, I cannot take Senators Averil Power, Mary Moran, Susan O'Keeffe, Catherine Noone, Eamonn Coghlan and Michael D'Arcy this morning because we are over time.
On a point of order, I raised my hand to indicate my wish to speak when Senator Crown came in.
I have to cross the floor and there were more speakers on this side of the House. I have no choice in the matter.
On a point of order, we have one item of business to conduct today. It would not be unreasonable to allow a few minutes in order that the remaining six Members can contribute.
I am governed by the Order of the House and Standing Orders. The Order of the House provides that the Order of Business shall last no longer than 55 minutes. If the Senator wish to make a proposal to change that arrangement, he can do so.
I request that the Leader extend the Order of Business by a few minutes in order that the remaining Senators can contribute.
I second that proposal.
Proposals to amend the Order of Business have to come from the Leader.
I advise the Leader of the Opposition that the position on the treaty has not changed. Regardless of what a German Minister says, if the Attorney General advises that we need a referendum we will have one. That is the simple situation which I have outlined on at least ten occasions. When the Attorney General advises on the need for a referendum, the Government will act on her advice.
A number of Members raised the issue of the sale of State assets. Senators will be aware that the programme of support contained commitments on State assets. The programme states that the Government "will consider options for an ambitious programme of asset disposals" and the preparation of a draft programme for these disposals.
Do not pick a line at random. That was the memorandum of understanding signed in July.
Please allow the Leader to continue, without interruption.
I do not think the Leader means to mislead the House but perhaps he will clarify that he is citing the July memorandum of understanding.
The Senator referred to the jobs initiative and claimed that nothing had happened and no jobs were created as a result of it.
Unemployment went up.
As I pointed out previously, the jobs initiative yielded 6,500 jobs in the hospitality and tourism industry.
At a cost of €400 million.
Therefore, it has been successful. I am merely responding to the matters raised by the Leader of the Opposition.
Several Senators spoke about the Pathways to Work programme. I hope to arrange for the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation to address the House on the matter in early course. The Pathways to Work programme involves a regular and ongoing engagement with unemployed people, greater targeting of activation placements and opportunities, incentivising the take-up of opportunities, incentivising employers to provide more jobs for unemployed people and reforming the institutions to deliver better services. The Minister, Deputy Bruton, or the Minister for Social Protection will explain the programme to the House in the near future.
A number of Senators raised the issue of the national children's hospital. It is regrettable that the decision means the hospital cannot proceed at present. In regard to whether An Bord Pleanála was right or wrong, it is an independent body and for people to suggest that we should interfere with its workings——
Nobody said interfere but legislate, which is what these Houses are about.
We have had interference——
Some people have been saying I have been suggesting interfering. These Houses legislate and they need to legislate when a crisis like this becomes urgent.
Please, Senator. The Leader to continue, without interruption.
Senator MacSharry may be grandstanding on the issue. I am more interested in when we can start work on this hospital.
Agreed, absolutely.
On the question of nods and winks between An Bord Pleanála and political parties——
That is an outrageous suggestion.
——that may have gone on in the past.
We will have votes each day on the Order of Business from now on because there will be no co-operation.
Senator MacSharry——
How dare the Leader suggest that when a genuine concern has been raised in the interests of the children of Ireland. Yesterday, he accused people of telling lies.
Senator MacSharry——
We have had all sorts of suggestions all morning and people being accused of telling lies. It is the Leader who is lying and misrepresenting the truth.
(Interruptions).
The Leader has accused other Senators — how dare he.
Senator MacSharry, please, resume your seat.
What an outrageous attack on the Leader.
In ten years——
(Interruptions).
The Leader knows it, how dare he say it today.
Senator MacSharry, please, resume your seat.
It was what the Senator said.
The Leader should apologise.
The Leader should withdraw what he said.
There have been several political charges made in the House this morning. Can we hear the Leader of the House without interruption?
That would be a change.
I never heckle, as the Leader knows.
It would be a change for me to be able to speak without interruption.
It is a misrepresentation of Senator MacSharry's point of view.
The announcement has only been made today and I am sure the Minister will come to the House in order to give an explanation as to how we can proceed with the construction of a national children's hospital at the earliest possible opportunity.
On a point of order, the Leader should withdraw the comment about nods and winks, which is not fair.
That is a political charge and it is not a point of order either.
With all due respect, on a point of order, the Chair rightly ruled on the use of the word "lie" and Members withdrew it. The Leader has made a charge about nods and winks between An Bord Pleanála and political parties.
The Senator knows there is a difference between a political charge and a lie.
I do not believe the Leader meant to say that.
That is not a point of order.
I respectfully ask the Leader to withdraw that remark.
I ask the Senator to resume his seat. The Leader of the House to continue, without interruption.
We should be calm and wait.
Senator Coghlan, please. Can we hear the Leader of the House without interruption?
I apologise.
I believe everybody in the House wants us to expedite the construction of the national children's hospital which is the commitment of the Government. I hope we will be in a position to proceed with it at the earliest possible opportunity. Obviously it is a major setback to have An Bord Pleanála make its decision on the grounds it made it. However, we need an opportunity to consider that decision and I am sure the Government will act in the best possible way to expedite construction of the hospital, which is what everyone in this House wants.
On the issue of medical card applications, I understand that members of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children will visit the PCRS headquarters in the near future. I am glad, as outlined by Senator Landy, that officials from the PCRS will come to Leinster House and address Members in the AV room as soon as the review is complete.
Senator Mullins spoke about the rip-off of insurance costs regarding warranties. Perhaps the Senator could raise the matter with the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, when he is in the House on 6 March.
I am trying to arrange for the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, to come to the House to address a number of issues. If Senator Moloney provides me with details on the issue of the drugs helpline that she mentioned, I will raise it with the Minister.
I join Senators Barrett and Wilson in congratulating Rev. Roy Patten, the new Moderator of the Presbyterian Church, whom we all wish well. Senator Wilson also asked when the social welfare and pensions Bill would be taken in the House. I will make inquiries and come back to him on the matter.
Senator Crown raised the issue of Pastor Nadarkhani which I will bring to the attention of the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade. The House passed an all-party motion on Pastor Nadarkhani a number of months ago and it is regrettable to hear what Senator Crown said in that regard today. Senator Mooney spoke about the situation in Syria. We might be able to get the Tánaiste to come back to the House to have an overall debate on foreign affairs addressing a number of items. If it needs to be spelled out further I am sure the Tánaiste will do so. What is happening there is a human rights disaster.
Senator Conway called for a debate on planning. We will try to arrange a debate with the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, on the matter.
Senator Leyden spoke about taxi regulation. I have asked the Minister of State at the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Kelly, to come to the House to address the matter and I hope he will make himself available in early course.
I again ask the Leader to withdraw the remark he made about nods and winks between political parties and An Bord Pleanála.
The Senator cannot ask him to withdraw it as it is a political charge.
If this is not withdrawn this morning, I intend to formally raise it with the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
The Cathaoirleach has spoken and the Senator should respect that.
That is as bad a charge as anybody has made.
The Senator is entitled to so raise it.
I do not believe the Leader intended any offence by it and respectfully ask him to withdraw the remark. It might have been made in the heat of battle, which is fair enough, but I do not believe he meant it. I respectfully ask that the remark be withdrawn in order that we can proceed with the business of the House as normal today. We have had quite a charged Order of Business and sometimes statements and comments are made that are not really meant. I respectfully ask the Leader to withdraw the remark in order that we can proceed with the business of the House today in an orderly way.
Senator Darragh O'Brien has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, "That the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs clarify in the House today the remarks of the German Minister for European affairs regarding the eurozone fiscal compact." Is the amendment being pressed?
Amendment put.
The Seanad divided: Tá, 17; Níl, 31.
Tá
- Byrne, Thomas.
- Crown, John.
- Daly, Mark.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Mooney, Paschal.
- Mullen, Rónán.
- Norris, David.
- Ó Clochartaigh, Trevor.
- Ó Domhnaill, Brian.
- Ó Murchú, Labhrás.
- O'Brien, Darragh.
- O'Donovan, Denis.
- O'Sullivan, Ned.
- Power, Averil.
- Reilly, Kathryn.
- White, Mary M.
- Wilson, Diarmuid.
Níl
- Bacik, Ivana.
- Barrett, Sean D.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Brennan, Terry.
- Burke, Colm.
- Clune, Deirdre.
- Coghlan, Eamonn.
- Coghlan, Paul.
- Comiskey, Michael.
- Conway, Martin.
- Cummins, Maurice.
- D’Arcy, Jim.
- D’Arcy, Michael.
- Gilroy, John.
- Hayden, Aideen.
- Healy Eames, Fidelma.
- Henry, Imelda.
- Higgins, Lorraine.
- Keane, Cáit.
- Kelly, John.
- Landy, Denis.
- Moloney, Marie.
- Moran, Mary.
- Mulcahy, Tony.
- Mullins, Michael.
- Noone, Catherine.
- O’Keeffe, Susan.
- O’Neill, Pat.
- Sheahan, Tom.
- van Turnhout, Jillian.
- Whelan, John.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Ned O’Sullivan and Diarmuid Wilson; Níl, Senators Paul Coghlan and Susan O’Keeffe.
Amendment declared lost.
Senator Marc MacSharry has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, "That the Minister for Health clarify to the House today the implications of An Bord Pleanála's decision regarding the proposed new national children's hospital." Is the amendment being pressed?
Amendment put.
The Seanad divided: Tá, 17; Níl, 31.
Tá
- Byrne, Thomas.
- Crown, John.
- Daly, Mark.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Mooney, Paschal.
- Mullen, Rónán.
- Norris, David.
- Ó Clochartaigh, Trevor.
- Ó Domhnaill, Brian.
- Ó Murchú, Labhrás.
- O'Brien, Darragh.
- O'Donovan, Denis.
- O'Sullivan, Ned.
- Power, Averil.
- Reilly, Kathryn.
- White, Mary M.
- Wilson, Diarmuid.
Níl
- Bacik, Ivana.
- Barrett, Sean D.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Brennan, Terry.
- Burke, Colm.
- Clune, Deirdre.
- Coghlan, Eamonn.
- Coghlan, Paul.
- Comiskey, Michael.
- Conway, Martin.
- Cummins, Maurice.
- D’Arcy, Jim.
- D’Arcy, Michael.
- Gilroy, John.
- Hayden, Aideen.
- Healy Eames, Fidelma.
- Henry, Imelda.
- Higgins, Lorraine.
- Keane, Cáit.
- Kelly, John.
- Landy, Denis.
- Moloney, Marie.
- Moran, Mary.
- Mulcahy, Tony.
- Mullins, Michael.
- Noone, Catherine.
- O’Keeffe, Susan.
- O’Neill, Pat.
- Sheahan, Tom.
- van Turnhout, Jillian.
- Whelan, John.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Ned O’Sullivan and Diarmuid Wilson; Níl, Senators Paul Coghlan and Susan O’Keeffe.
Amendment declared lost.
I welcome a former distinguished Member of this House, Dr. Mary Henry, to the Visitors Gallery.
She was installed yesterday evening as a pro-chancellor of Trinity College, Dublin.
Is the Order of Business agreed to?
Question put: "That the Order of Business be agreed to."
The Seanad divided: Tá, 35; Níl, 14.
Tá
- Bacik, Ivana.
- Barrett, Sean D.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Brennan, Terry.
- Burke, Colm.
- Clune, Deirdre.
- Coghlan, Eamonn.
- Coghlan, Paul.
- Comiskey, Michael.
- Conway, Martin.
- Cummins, Maurice.
- D’Arcy, Jim.
- D’Arcy, Michael.
- Gilroy, John.
- Hayden, Aideen.
- Healy Eames, Fidelma.
- Heffernan, James.
- Henry, Imelda.
- Higgins, Lorraine.
- Keane, Cáit.
- Kelly, John.
- Landy, Denis.
- Moloney, Marie.
- Moran, Mary.
- Mulcahy, Tony.
- Mullen, Rónán.
- Mullins, Michael.
- Noone, Catherine.
- Norris, David.
- O’Keeffe, Susan.
- O’Neill, Pat.
- Sheahan, Tom.
- van Turnhout, Jillian.
- Whelan, John.
- Zappone, Katherine.
Níl
- Byrne, Thomas.
- Daly, Mark.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Mooney, Paschal.
- Ó Clochartaigh, Trevor.
- Ó Domhnaill, Brian.
- Ó Murchú, Labhrás.
- O'Brien, Darragh.
- O'Donovan, Denis.
- O'Sullivan, Ned.
- Power, Averil.
- Reilly, Kathryn.
- White, Mary M.
- Wilson, Diarmuid.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Paul Coghlan and Susan O’Keeffe; Níl, Senators Ned O’Sullivan and Diarmuid Wilson.
Question declared carried.
Senators Landy and Moran, who are present in the Chamber, will be recorded as assenting to the proposal, even though they omitted to cast their votes.