Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 7 Nov 2013

Vol. 227 No. 6

Adjournment Matters

Child Protection Services

Senator Mary Moran

I thank the Minister for taking this matter. I was alarmed by a representation I received from a constituent several months ago who had been trying to contact the children and family services in the area regarding his daughter who is subject to shared custody. He reported that she was placed on the at-risk register. She is nine years old and she has lived with her father for the past number of months as she has refused to return to the mother's house. Her father and grandmother both reported to me that the child has had to seek medical care but is fine while living with her father. He has sought a meeting with a social worker for many months but has been unable to contact anybody. On one occasion, he called to the office and remained there for the morning in an effort to speak to someone.

I was approached by him for help and contacted the appropriate services on his behalf. I also was dismayed by the delay in communication from the staff. Having taken the matter to a higher level more than two months ago, I was assured it would be dealt with. I received an e-mail from a social worker in early October confirming that they had spoken to the child's father, but when I contacted the family that evening, I was told this was not the case and that no contact had been made. It is of great concern that this could happen. On contacting the area manager about this matter, he confirmed that the facts in the e-mail sent to me by the social worker were not correct. I again requested that a call be made to the father to allay his concerns, as I felt a simple telephone call by the appropriate person in the service would calm the situation and prevent the matter from blowing out of all proportion. Unfortunately, that was more than four weeks ago and to date no contact has been made between a social worker and the father. I contacted the area manager again this week and received no communication at all. It is worrying that excuses such as lower staff numbers and cutbacks are given when a telephone call lasting only a few minutes could resolve this issue. It raises a bigger issue regarding services for children. We had the children's referendum and we all said we wanted to ensure the rights of children were addressed and upheld. We continually say children are our most precious possession.

If this is happening in my area, will the Minister investigate whether this is being replicated nationally? I seek an immediate intervention by her in this case on behalf of a father who is trying to do his best for his daughter. Will the Minister examine the bigger picture to ensure adequate children and family services are provided in order that families in need receive the support they require?

Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (Deputy Frances Fitzgerald)

Under the Child Care Act 1991, responsibility for the management of the child welfare and protection system rests with the Health Service Executive, HSE. With regard to the specific case raised by the Senator, officials from the Department of Children and Youth Affairs contacted the children and family services of the HSE prior to this debate for the most up-to-date position. The HSE has indicated it will endeavour to contact the father involved during next week, that is, the week commencing 11 November 2013, and I will ask my officials to speak to staff in the service to highlight the urgency of the response the Senator believes this case warrants.

It is regrettable that there has been a delay in addressing this request, but it brings into focus the serious pressures facing child welfare and protection services and social work teams.

That is the reality. Child protection and welfare referrals to the HSE have nearly doubled since 2007, from 23,618 in 2007 to 40,187 in 2012. There is often focus on individual cases in the media and elsewhere, but the overall number of neglect and child abuse cases of concern being referred to the services stands at more than 40,000 in 2012. That will probably marginally increase to nearly 42,000 in 2013. There was a particularly sharp increase in referrals during 2012, from 31,626 in 2011 to 40,187 in 2012. It is welcome that people are referring because they are concerned about children, but it puts pressure on the system and services. It means that people need to prioritise responses in terms of the more serious cases and make judgments all the time at the assessment point about what level of response they can give.

We relaunched the Children First guidelines in July 2011, and as a society we are working to create greater awareness of children who should be referred. Owing to the age and gender profile among staff, social work staff numbers are constantly in flux. There are 250 whole-time equivalent social work vacancies, including approximately 110 arising from maternity leave. That clearly creates pressures. There is considerable ongoing reform also. Considerable work is being done within teams locally and nationally to manage the very assessments the Senator mentioned in this case to try to ensure a more timely response to child protection referrals or other issues the Senator raised about access and custody.

We have introduced, for the first time, new national standards for child protection services. The Health Information and Quality Authority, HIQA, is now involved in examining what is happening. We have extremely good reports from some areas. In other areas improvements remain to be made, but timely inspections are taking place for the first time.

I reassure the Senator about social work staffing. Clearly in the office she mentioned there is an issue with the number of staff available to deal with these kinds of cases. The current number of child and family social workers in post is 1,385 whole-time equivalents. This includes all 270 posts recommended by the Ryan report. Some 114 vacancies have recently been filled with a further 136 posts being filled, of which 51 have been accepted by candidates. We obtained a budget increase of €6.7 million to support child protection teams in the Estimate for 2014, rising to €12 million in a full year, which will allow for additional recruitment.

We will also publish the Children First Bill in the near future. I thank the Senator for raising this case and my staff have been following up on the details of it.

Senator Mary Moran

I thank the Minister for her comprehensive answer and for her attention to the particular case. She mentioned extra funding and I ask her to consider the area of which I speak. I know they do a fantastic job despite being under serious pressure owing to cutbacks. When the families are at the other end of it, they feel they need some additional support. If extra posts are available, I ask the Minister to consider placing them in that area.

Deputy Frances Fitzgerald

The CEO-designate of the child and family agency, Mr. Gordon Jeyes, is examining vacancies throughout the country to consider whether there are geographic inequities and to look at the level of pressure of cases coming into a particular area. I welcome what the Senator has said about the staff in the specific office who, I am sure, do their very best and deal with extraordinary pressures in trying to balance a variety of cases, make judgment calls and do proper assessments. Sometimes cases need to wait.

Senator Mary Moran

I understand cases need to be prioritised.

Deputy Frances Fitzgerald

Cases need to wait a number of weeks. We are not in a position to respond immediately to every case.

Schools Building Projects Status

Senator Michael D'Arcy

I hope I will receive as comprehensive a reply as the one to the previous matter. My experience with the Department of Education and Skills, however, is that I will not. Premises used by a post-primary school on an interim basis are about to become vacant. Those premises are being made available to a primary school whose facilities are in very poor condition. To my dismay, the board of management advised me that, after the initial offer was made, it was made conditional on St. Joseph's CBS changing its status from an all-boys school to a co-educational school. I wish to know if that is the case. If so, it represents interference by the Department of Education and Skills with the patrons of that school. It is a decision that should have been made by the board of management without coercion and without undue interference by the Department.

Deputy Frances Fitzgerald

I am responding to this matter on behalf the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn. I thank the Senator for raising it as it provides the opportunity to clarify to this House the future use of the school building which is currently used to accommodate the newly established post-primary school in Gorey, pending the provision of permanent accommodation for that school.

The Senator will be aware of the demographic challenge facing the education system in the coming years. Total enrolment in both primary and post-primary schools is expected to grow by almost 70,000 by 2018, with more than 45,000 at primary level and 25,000 at post-primary. It will continue to grow up to at least 2024 at post-primary level. It is vital, therefore, that there is sufficient school accommodation to cope with these pupil enrolments.

To meet the needs of our growing population of school-going children, the Department of Education and Skills must establish new schools as well as extending or replacing a number of existing schools in areas where demographic growth has been identified. The delivery of these new schools, together with extension projects to meet future demand, will be the main focus of the Department's budget for the coming years.

The new permanent post-primary school building for Gorey is under construction. Owing to the immediate demand for additional post-primary school places in Gorey, it was necessary to establish the new school in a temporary location pending the construction of the permanent building. The new school concerned, now Creagh College, opened in September 2011. The design of the building lends itself to conversion to a permanent primary school in future, if required.

The most recent projections produced by the Department of Education and Skills in respect of the Gorey area forecast an increase in the projected demand at primary level in the coming years. The future use of the Creagh building will, therefore, meet the co-educational pupil demand identified.

In June this year, following a request by the school management, the Minister, together with Department officials, met a delegation from St. Joseph's national school. The delegation sought to relocate St. Joseph's to the Creagh building when it was vacated. The Deputy will be aware that St. Joseph's is a senior boys' school catering for children from second to sixth class. The neighbouring Loreto convent school which caters for boys and girls up to first class acts as its main feeder school. The Department advised the delegation of the co-educational demand that must be met and that the proposal from the school must be considered in this context.

The delegation undertook to consider the Department's position in conjunction with stakeholders and the patron, whereby the premises could potentially address the school's accommodation needs as well as the demographic needs of the area. A formal response from the school authorities is awaited.

I thank the Senator for allowing the Minister the opportunity to outline the position. I was pleased to take this Adjournment matter on the Minister's behalf.

Senator Michael D'Arcy

I realise that it is difficult for the Minister address this matter, as the situation is not clear. She stated, "The Department advised the delegation of the co-educational demand." This does not suggest that it gave a direction, but that it is coercing those who met the Minister on behalf of the school management. My question was clear - is the offer conditional? It has not been answered as comprehensively as the Minister is able to answer for her own Department. This is my criticism when the Minister for Education and Skills does not appear. I still need to have my question answered. If the Minister present is able to do so, I will gladly accept it, but I doubt that she can, as it does not relate to her Department. This is the ridiculous nature of these debates. I suggest to the Acting Chairman that when an answer is not forthcoming from a Department, the matter should be sent back for an immediate response. It is unfair to and demeaning for the Chamber. Is the term "The Department advised the delegation" a conditional response from the Department to the management, which met the Minister? I would appreciate an answer.

Acting Chairman (Senator Lorraine Higgins)

I will pass on the Senator's concerns to the Cathaoirleach.

Senator Michael D'Arcy

And the Minister.

Deputy Frances Fitzgerald

I will highlight the point made in my reply: "The Department advised the delegation of the co-educational demand that must be met and that the proposal from the school must be considered in this context." However, I take the Senator's point about clarity on whether this implies that the school needs to be co-educational. I will contact the Department and advise it that he is seeking further clarification.

Senator Michael D'Arcy

Could I have that response tomorrow, please?

Tax Collection

Senator Mark Daly

I thank the Minister of State for taking this issue. I have received some correspondence from constituents, employers and accountants who are concerned that this will be unmanageable and will have an adverse effect on accountants' offices. They have raised a number of practical issues with me, but I would like to listen to the rationale by the Department of Finance for this approach.

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government (Deputy Jan O'Sullivan)

The Minister for Finance is well aware of the concerns raised by the Senator. It will probably not come as a surprise to him to hear that similar concerns have been raised directly with the Minister by a wide variety of organisations and individuals. I want to be clear, in that the Minister takes these concerns seriously.

Perhaps it would be worthwhile my explaining the background to the proposed changes to income tax pay and file dates, as these are just one aspect of a much wider development. Under the regulations known as the two-pack, which were formally adopted on 30 May 2013, a common budgetary timeline is being introduced for all euro area member states. Specifically, the draft budget for central government and the main parameters of the draft budgets for all of the other sub-sectors of the general government must be published by 15 October each year, draft budgetary plans in a common format must be submitted by all euro area member states not in a programme of assistance, and the budget for the central government must be adopted or fixed upon and published by 31 December each year.

In the light of these requirements, the Government decided to bring budget day forward from the first week in December to on or before 15 October from now on. Accordingly, the Minister for Finance presented budget 2014 on Tuesday, 15 October. The Government also decided that the Finance Bill should complete its passage through the Oireachtas by 31 December each year.

One of the most critical elements of the budgetary process is the accuracy of systems for forecasting potential revenue yield in the year in question prior to the budget actually taking place. This is why pay and file dates have become important. In the context of a December budget day, the availability prior to the budget of information on cumulative tax yields to the end of November gave a high degree of certainty to the estimation of potential outturn for the year. For example, cumulative tax yield to the end of November 2012 was €33.8 billion, which represented 92% of the full year outturn of €36.6 billion. On the other hand, the cumulative yield to the end of September, at €26.1 billion, represented only 71.3% of the eventual outturn.

The scope for unanticipated events that would lead to either a higher or lower than projected outturn is considerably increased in the context of an October budget. Such occurrences could result in the highly undesirable need for countervailing measures to bring the budget back on track within a period of only a month or two of having been introduced in October, the new date resulting from the adoption of the two-pack. In addition, the ability to project future yield is compromised. Consequently, measures that would result in improvements in the availability of information or increases in the proportion of total yield already available prior to the budget must be considered.

It is clear that the main areas where there is scope to introduce such improvements relate to the income tax pay and file arrangements. However, it is critical that any change made here be implemented in a manner that will not cause problems for the State, industry or practitioners. Therefore, on 11 October the Minister initiated a consultation process on a revision of the existing arrangements. This process remains open until close of business tomorrow, Friday, 8 November, but I am sure there could be some flexibility in respect of late submissions. I encourage all those who hold views on the proposed changes to engage with the Department via this process. Full details are available on the tax policy website, www.taxpolicy.gov.ie.

Senator Mark Daly

I will summarise - the European Union is at fault. That is about the size of it.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

We are a part of it.

Senator Mark Daly

Not for one second do I attribute any blame to the Minister of State, but the answer is that the European Union is at fault. I do not know whether we did anything about it at European level. Did we engage and explain that how this change was designed would cause us problems or did we just take the new budgetary timeline that we were given? To summarise the reply, it is the European Union's fault and do not blame the Department. I thank the Minister of State.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I will respond briefly. We are a part of the European Union and any decision made therein. The Minister has stated he takes these concerns seriously. The consultation process is still open for another day or two. I do not doubt that concerns will be considered, but I have outlined the reasons, the timescales and the need for as much accuracy as possible when making budgetary decisions.

Senator Mark Daly

I thank the Minister of State. I know that there is a consultation process but, given our discussion on EU legislation this morning, my point is that we always engage in the European legislative process late. It is now a fait accompli and a consultation process will make no difference to the European Union's timelines. What level of engagement was there from the Department in highlighting our concerns with, for example, practitioners to make them aware of the possibility of a change to the filing deadlines? This should have been done years ago, but we are at the tail-end of the process.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

We have known about the two-pack for quite some time.

Senator Mark Daly

Yes, but practitioners are now being asked for their opinions. It is a little late in the day.

Social and Affordable Housing Provision

Senator Marie Moloney

I thank the Minister of State for taking this Adjournment debate. Since it relates to her Department, I am delighted that she is present.

A number of houses on the affordable housing scheme have been lying idle in Killarney since 2009. As the Minister of State knows, that scheme has been discontinued for some time, but the houses have remained empty.

They were originally only available to applicants under the affordable housing scheme, but despite a considerably reduced sale price, those concerned still could not access mortgages and made alternative arrangements in respect of their housing needs. The houses were then advertised on the open market at the reduced price, but there was no great interest in them.

The Minister of State will be aware, owing to the fact that no new social house building has taken place this year, that the number of people on the social housing list is huge. While I acknowledge announcement of the construction of 500 new houses this year, taken in a countrywide context that is very little construction per county. However, it is a step in the right direction.

The four houses about which I am speaking are ready for occupation and are located in a social housing complex. People on the social housing list in Killarney are angered that they remain unoccupied while so many are in need of houses. They cannot understand the reason they cannot be used for social housing purposes.

I understand that Killarney Town Council has applied to have them redesignated as social housing. I hope the Minister of State can give me a positive answer.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I thank the Senator for raising this issue. I know the concern she expresses in terms of empty houses is very real. There is no particular proposal with regard to affordable houses. However, proposals from local authorities will be carefully considered. I presume a proposal has been submitted by Killarney Town Council.

Senator Marie Moloney

I discussed the matter with the housing officer at the council who informed me the decision is one for the Department. I assume the Minister of State would be aware of it if one had been submitted.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

A specific proposal would need to be submitted by the local authority. To the best of my knowledge, a specific proposal has not been submitted. I will have the matter clarified. Another possibility is that of leasing through a voluntary housing body. Unsold affordable housing is often included in the social housing mix. I am not aware of any proposal having been submitted by Killarney Town Council. However, should one be submitted, it will be considered.

On the general issue of affordable housing schemes, the Government announced in its housing policy statement published in June 2011 the standing down of all affordable housing schemes, including the shared ownership scheme, in the context of a full review of Part V of the Planning and Development Act 2000, while clearly identifying that the priority for Government will be to meet the most acute needs of households applying for social housing support.

Any future changes to legislation governing affordable housing schemes, including the shared ownership scheme, will be made in the context of both pieces of work. We expect to make announcements in this regard in the near future. These schemes were originally introduced to bridge the affordability gap of the boom years which prevented middle income households from realising their home ownership aspirations. However, affordable housing did nothing to address the underlying problem, namely, market overheating with an unsustainable gap between prices and incomes. As the Senator will be aware, there is currently little or no demand for affordable housing. In recent years the challenge has been to deploy existing affordable stock productively rather than deliver new affordable housing. This includes, where appropriate, its use as social housing stock.

The financial parameters within which we will continue to operate rule out a return to large capital funded construction programmes. Nonetheless, the Government is committed to responding more quickly and on a larger scale to social housing support needs through a variety of mechanisms, including through increased provision of social housing. In July 2011, I announced a three-year funding programme of €100 million to deliver 800 new units of voluntary and local authority owned social housing. A further €50 million provided in the most recent budget for 2014 will be used to fund infrastructural investment, primarily in the housing area and includes €30 million to recommence a State house building programme, €10 million for an unfinished housing estate resolution project and additional funding for housing adaptation grants. Almost 70% of the budget for my Department will go directly to support housing in 2014.

The total housing allocation for 2014 will result in an investment of over €500 million on a range of programmes, which means that funding for housing for next year is effectively maintained at 2013 levels. I am determined to ensure the social housing programme optimises the delivery of social housing and the return for the resources invested. To achieve this, it is essential that we tailor the use of available Exchequer supports to prevailing conditions and explore the full range of solutions to address housing needs, one of which includes the sourcing of loan finance by approved housing bodies for construction and acquisition.

More than 26,000 units of accommodation are currently managed by approved housing bodies. The Government places approved housing bodies at the heart of social housing provision in the years ahead as Exchequer-funded large-scale capital building programmes are no longer financially possible. I re-emphasise that such programmes have commenced and the Government intends to ramp them up as the finances of the country improve. New social housing provision will rely to a significant extent on revenue-funded housing options such as leasing and on private investment into the sector. We are utilising the approved housing body sector because it can attract external financial investment and will also engage with NAMA to ensure continued delivery of housing units for social purposes.

With regard to affordable housing specifically the review of Part V is now almost concluded and any future changes to legislation governing affordable housing schemes, including the shared ownership scheme, will be made in the context of this review. I expect to make announcements in this regard in the near future. I am not aware that any proposal has been received from Killarney Town Council but will seek clarification in that regard. If not, the local authority should make a case to the Department or alternatively seek leasing through a voluntary housing body, which option has been used in respect of affordable housing in other parts of the country.

Senator Marie Moloney

I thank the Minister of State for her reply. I am surprised to hear that the council has not made an application for the houses.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I did not say it had not made an application, rather that I am not aware of any such application.

Senator Marie Moloney

I will clarify the matter with the council. I understood it had submitted an application. However, perhaps I am wrong. It is regrettable that these houses have remained unoccupied since 2009. We need to move a little quicker than that, given the number of people in need of housing. These houses are large enough to accommodate four families. I acknowledge the volume of resources being made available in respect of RAS and the leasing schemes. However, that is a matter for another day.

As I said, I will endeavour to find out from the council if it has submitted an application and, if so, will communicate with the Minister of State at a later stage.

The Seanad adjourned at 2.10 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 12 November 2013.