The Order of Business is No. 1, Roads Bill 2014 - Committee and Remaining Stages, to be taken at 1.15 p.m.
Order of Business
In both this House and the Dáil Fianna Fáil has consistently raised the plight of mortgage holders in distress. Despite its public statements, the Government has regularly refused to accept proposals and initiatives put forward by my party to try to alleviate the distress of mortgage holders. Yesterday at an Oireachtas committee meeting the head of AIB indicated it was almost certain that the bank was going to reduce the variable rate in the coming months. What I find extraordinary is that a leading newspaper, the Irish Independent - a little like The Sun headline at the time of the Falklands war, "It's The Sun wot won it", is actually claiming credit for having pressurised the Government, the Central Bank and the banking institutions.
Despite the pleadings of my party, the Government sat on its hands on this issue. Although the State had a 99% share and was effectively the owner of AIB, on behalf of the people of Ireland, the Government washed its hands of it and cried crocodile tears over it as though it could not do anything. Now, outside of the democratic environment and the elected Government of the country, a national newspaper is claiming credit for having moved AIB. This is very dangerous for democracy. Considering the Government was given every opportunity to come out on this issue, there is a very serious disconnect between it and the people. That has been shown by this issue which, with child care, is one of the two major issues affecting people. It is past time the Government started to look at the real issues affecting people, specifically when it comes to mortgage relief. Why, when we have a 99% share of AIB, does the Government say we cannot really do much to influence the bank's decisions? I have asked this before. Who within AIB, following yesterday's meeting, eventually decided to move towards reducing variable mortgage rates and what are the reasons for the decision?
I would not say that, in fairness.
I say this directly to AIB: let us not have a token reduction. The tracker mortgage rate is 1%, yet the variable mortgage rate with AIB and its competitor banks is around 4.25%. Any suggestion they are going to tinker with that variable rate in order to placate mounting public anger towards the banks with a nominal reduction of 0.25% is totally unacceptable. I charge the banks, particularly AIB if it is going to lead on this issue, to make a significant reduction.
I am sure the House will join with me in remembering the estimated 4,000 Irish men who died in Gallipoli on 25 April 1915, the first day of the landings. An estimated 70,000 Turkish troops were also killed in that awful tragedy during the First World War. These 4,000 soldiers from all over Ireland, representing the various regiments of the time such as the Munsters, the Dublin Fusiliers and, in my own part of the country, the Connaught Rangers, were led "by donkeys", as was subsequently commented. This was to be the most tragic of battles of the First World War. There are still families mourning their grandfathers, grand-uncles and other relations. I hope the House will remember 25 April as a day of infamy when 4,000 Irishmen, hoping they were fighting for the freedom of their own country, gave their lives in the most senseless bloodletting of the First World War. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a n-anamacha dílis.
It is appropriate today to commemorate the war dead of the appalling battle of Gallipoli, as Senator Paschal Mooney said, and to mark the anniversary. I join him in commemorating the many thousands who died so tragically and senselessly in that battle.
In the light of the calls we have been making during the week for a debate in this House on a drugs strategy, I very much welcome the announcement that the Minister of State, Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, is to be appointed today as a Minister of State with responsibility for the national drugs strategy. I think he will do an excellent job in that role. I am really pleased that a Minister of State will be taking charge of the national drugs strategy. I know that the Minister of State has committed himself to reducing drug related deaths, of which there were more than 600 in Ireland in 2012. It is a serious human tragedy. In the light of that appointment, we might ask the Minister of State to come to the House at the earliest opportunity to address us on his programme of work for the coming year.
I note and welcome the announcement yesterday that a company called Zalando would be establishing 200 jobs in the Dublin south inner city. The Tánaiste, Deputy Joan Burton, was in attendance to mark the announcement. She noted that it highlighted Dublin's strength as a centre for digital excellence and as a city in attracting these hugely important tech jobs.
On the issue of the AIB and distressed mortgage holders, many in this House have looked for a debate on it. I welcome the indication yesterday that the standard variable rate would be cut by AIB. That would greatly alleviate distress for many thousands of mortgage holders, but it is clear that more needs to be done. We are aware that the Government has announced it will bring forward a package of measures. Certainly, the change to the bankruptcy law is one of those measures that must be addressed by the Government as part of that package. The Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform under the very able Vice Chairman, our own colleague, Senator Aideen Hayden, played an important role yesterday in keeping the pressure on AIB to ensure rates would be cut. We need to have a debate on the issue with the relevant Minister in attendance to hear precisely what package of measures for distressed mortgage holders is planned by the Government.
I renew my call to the Leader for a debate on measures to prevent any future dreadful deaths of migrants seeking to enter Europe. Today EU leaders are meeting at a summit. I hope they will be looking at creative measures to alleviate this problem and address the serious issue of the many thousands of migrants seeking to enter Europe and the appalling human tragedy caused by people traffickers who put them out to sea in boats that are not seaworthy.
I join other Senators who have mentioned the war dead. Many young boys went away expecting to be home after a couple of months and many of them are still lying where they fell. It is a terribly sad day. I have visited the graves of the war dead in France and I am delighted that the Irish Government built the peace tower to recognise our war dead.
I wish to raise two issues. I congratulate the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, on moving so quickly to get the Comptroller and Auditor General to investigate the Siteserv issue with respect to IBRC. There are questions still to be answered and I would welcome an opportunity to have a debate in the House on the issue.
I propose an amendment to the Order of Business - I do not do so lightly - that the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, come to the House to discuss the imminent closure of Gaelcholáiste Chineál Eoghain on the Inishowen Peninsula. This is an Irish-speaking school which is being closed for one reason only, because of an industrial dispute which has been ongoing for a number of years. I understand the students in the school perform exceptionally well. I was involved in a prize-giving ceremony recently and one of the heartbreaking moments was a child from that school who was a recipient of a prize but neither the child nor the parents were informed that he would be the recipient of a national award. This is clearly a serious matter. Ordinarily, I would not propose an amendment such as this, but there seems to be a train of events that will lead to the closure of a school for no reason other than there is an industrial dispute between the management of the school and the staff. Apparently, the staff all pull together and working really well. I do not intend to bring the House into resolving industrial relations issues, but I do not want the one Irish-speaking school in the area to be closed. Principal teachers in the national schools have stopped sending children to the secondary school because of the situation there. That is simply not good enough in this day and age.
I welcome the announcement by Apple that it will apply for planning permission next week for the data centre based in Derrydonnell near Athenry. The application will include an environmental impact survey requesting permission to build a single storey data centre building, a logistics and administration building, a maintenance building, two small fibre huts, a security hut, an ESB substation and 18 standby generators. The site will also include a wastewater treatment plant, rain water harvesting, as well as an amenity walkway around the facility with tree planting and landscaping. This development will be of huge benefit to the local area. It is hoped construction will commence shortly, with completion in 2017. Together with the recent announcement of funding and permission for a high speed fibre optic cable between County Mayo and New York, this is a significant boost for the west and a significant step in attracting high tech industry to the region. This is very welcome news for the west.
I agree with Senator Paschal Mooney in his remarks about the reduction in interest rates and the banks. While I welcome the announcement made by AIB yesterday that it intended to reduce its interest rate, I call on the other banks to do the same. I pay tribute not only to my own party and our representatives in this House and the Lower House who have raised this issue continually in recent months but to all Members who have raised it. This issue affects many people whom we represent and it is time it was addressed. Never in the history of the ECB have interest rates been as low and it is time the banks passed on that low interest rate to their customers.
I support Senator Gerard P. Craughwell who raised the issue of the Gaelcholáiste Chineál Eoghain on the Inishowen Peninsula. I am not fully aware of the circumstances, but if an industrial dispute is leading to the imminent closure of the school, it is incumbent on us all to investigate the reasons for that situation. As the Senator stated, it is the only Gaelscoil in the area and it is unfortunate that as a result of an industrial dispute between the staff and the management, the pupils who live in that area will be deprived of a Gaelscoil. I support the Senator in his call for the Minister for Education and Skills to look into it.
Is the Senator seconding the amendment?
I do not think Senator Gerard P. Craughwell proposed an amendment.
Yes, he did.
If he did, I will second it.
I thank the Senator.
I respect the authenticity and sincerity of Senator Paschal Mooney's call this morning regarding rates of interest being applied by the banks. I think we had a successful day yesterday at the hearings of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform. We are all concerned at the gap between the ECB rates and the standard variable mortgage rates that are applicable. In this regard, I asked Mr. Duffy and his colleagues if they would be open to an independent objective assessment in circumstances where the rate they are applying is inflicting undue hardship on the borrower.
I had in mind an external agency such as the Credit Review Office, which arbitrates on SME loan applications. To be fair, AIB stated it would accept that proposition. It did not think it applied but stated it was trying to engage with everyone. On the number of repossessions, it pointed out that when a notice was served, 50% chose to re-engage. Therefore, it has dropped of all such proceedings. From what it stated yesterday, it is making a fair effort in that regard.
Yesterday, on the matter of repossessions, I also queried the practice in voluntary assisted sales and recommended that where the homeowner surrendered the house and assisted in the disposal process, the bank write off the balance of the debt once the asset had been sold. Again, that was accepted and it was stated this was, or would be, its practice. I know that the Senator meant well and I agree with him, but the bank did point out that there were four component parts to its charge for money and that it was keeping them under review. There is movement and it is downward. The bank did seem to promise or commit, in the short term, perhaps within a few months, to reducing the rate.
Having an external agency to arbitrate could help, especially where a customer is able to show that, in its particular case, the bank is inflicting undue hardship. We need to continue to monitor the position. Next week, representatives of Bank of Ireland and Ulster Bank will be before the finance committee and we will pursue this matter further with them. Things are moving in the right direction. No one wants to see repossessions. As Senator Ivana Bacik said, the Government will have its own suite of measures very quickly.
The Government should be leading on this isue. A national newspaper should not be claiming credit.
Tomorrow, 24 April, marks the 99th anniversary of the Easter Rising and it is appropriate that this House acknowledge that fact. Saturday, 25 April, marks the commemoration of Anzac Day, the day on which 3,000 Irishmen and boys died on the shore at Gallipoli. They were as Irish as the heroes of the 1916 Rising. The complexity of our history is illustrated nicely, or tragically perhaps, by Commandant Mike Malone, commander of the Irish forces who opposed the British at Mount Street Bridge. He rightly takes his place among the pantheon of Irish heroes. It is interesting to note that his brother was killed the year before, in 1915, during one of the pushes by the Dublin Fusiliers in France. That nicely illustrates the complexity of the birth throes of our nation. In the weeks, months and years ahead, we would do well to remember the complexity of our history. Instead of pigeonholing one side or the other as goodies and baddies, it is important that we have a balanced view and recognise that within the State at the time, which is probably still the case today, there were two traditions or two nations, which are equally deserving of our respect.
I welcome the indication given yesterday by the CEO of AIB that the bank was likely to take some action on variable interest rates. I do not think any newspaper should claim credit for the movement we saw yesterday. Every public representative and every politician in this and the other House, of all parties and none, had raised this issue over a long period. I hope we will soon see some developments. I support the idea put forward by Senator Paul Coghlan of an independent objective assessment of the rates being charged and likely to be charged. There is a lot of merit in his idea. I repeat my call for a debate on banking, banking charges and the banking system. There is another element to this, namely, the hardship being endured by small businesses, particularly cash businesses, about which I spoke earlier in the week. I ask the Leader to arrange that debate in order that we can flesh out the issue and give it the prominence that the variable interest rate issue has received.
I join Senator Ivana Bacik in welcoming the appointment today of the Minister of State at the Department of Justice and Equality, Deputy Ó Ríordáin, to head up the national drugs strategy. We have a drugs abuse crisis which is of major proportions. Young lives and families in every town and village are being destroyed. Major costs are being inflicted on the health service as a result of drug abuse and drug problems. The cause of much criminality in communities is linked with the drug trade. There is evidence that many suicides are the result of drug abuse or pressure inflicted on young people by those involved in the drug trade. I welcome the appointment of the Minister of State and would very much welcome an early debate in this House on all aspects of the drugs problem and how we can devise a major campaign and strategy to address this crisis for once and for all.
My apologies. I did not see the Leas-Chathaoirleach indicating towards me.
Were it not for the Senator's arrival, I would have called the Leader to respond.
I had a guest in the Visitors Gallery and beg the Leas-Chathaorleach's pardon.
I wish to make a contribution on the engagement with AIB yesterday. A number of speakers have mentioned it and the positive outcome that it is willing to look at variable interest rates in the near future, which is to be welcomed. Despite the nation's shares in AIB, the fact remains that even though the shareholding is 99.9%, it still has a commercial mandate. I personally favour taking AIB into 100% State ownership and changing its mandate, but that is a debate for another day.
There were a number of other aspects of the engagement yesterday which I would like the Leader to take on board in seeking a debate in this House, for which many of us have called, on the wider issue of the mortgage crisis. One of these aspects is that AIB, in determining whether a mortgage is sustainable, not only accepts the recommendations of the Insolvency Service of Ireland but then adds 25%. That is part of the reason a number of AIB mortgages are more sustainable in the longer run than those in other lending institutions. AIB has also stated it is willing to look at having an independent body decide on what is a sustainable mortgage. This has been one of the big issues in terms of the number of reconstructions of mortgages going back into arrears, feeding into the courts system and repossessions. It is something the other banks should consider very carefully and they should also move in that direction.
AIB has also indicated that the engagement of an independent body, the Irish Mortgage Holders Association, which is independent of the bank, does facilitate the engagement of borrowers with the bank and that it has been very satisfactory in bringing a number of cases to conclusion. This is something that is very important and should be fed back to the Minister.
There are a number of issues. To be fair to the finance committee, AIB was the first bank to be called before it. To a number of the questions raised, it gave progressive and positive responses. I suspect we will not get such positive responses from some of the other institutions which will come before the committee.
I have said this so many times that I am becoming like a broken record, but I reiterate that, like other Members, I want an engagement with the Minister for Finance in this House on the issue of mortgage arrears. Requests for his attendance have been ongoing for in excess of 12 months. It is disrespectful to the House that he has not deemed fit to come here to address the issue.
One of the most important sectors in terms of business opportunities is tourism. Senator Paschal Mooney regularly reminds us of this, but every time we look for changes to encourage tourism, there always seems to be someone saying the changes would not suit.
The recent effort in Dún Laoghaire to erect a cruise ship berth is being criticised by the local yacht clubs because it will interfere with it. Let us ensure we have one approach that sees an opportunity and a challenge and does something about it. Tourism has been successful in recent years. It has been particularly helped by the Government's decision to reduce the VAT rate applicable to that business. That is not enough. Can we get everyone in the country saying that we should get behind anything that is going to bring about change?
Another source of concern is small businesses that have websites but are not equipped to trade on these sites. This is a big opportunity. A huge amount of business can be done through online trade. I recall going into a small shop in Estonia where two or three people worked, but I was taken upstairs where there were half a dozen working on the Internet, trading around Europe. This is another opportunity about which we can do something. It would be well worthwhile debating it in this House to get a wider view, not just that of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation.
I support Senator Aideen Hayden’s comments on the mortgage arrears crisis. While a full debate in the House will not resolve the issue, the presence of the Minister for Finance and a debate would be helpful. This request was made some time ago. It would be appropriate for him to give a favourable response soon.
I also support Senator John Gilroy’s comments on our sometimes selective presentation of our shared history on this island, which comments are appropriate as we plan for the centenary of the 1916 Rising and beyond. Almost nine years ago I asked in this House that we have a detailed and properly planned run-in to the 1916 Rising centenary commemorations because of the sensitivity surrounding them. The Government is getting the balance as right as it can. It is a challenge to us all in this House and to the public to have an open mind about our history and not to be as judgmental as we can sometimes be. Whether citizens died on O’Connell Street or soldiers died in Gallipoli, they were all Irish and deserve to be remembered equally.
Senator Gerard P. Craughwell raised the issue of Siteserv. I think it was Peter Mandelson who, when advising Tony Blair, pointed out that if an issue remained on the front page of the newspapers for three or four days, it was a serious political issue. This is becoming an issue which requires full disclosure and debate. While the Comptroller and Auditor General may have a role, I heard the view expressed that legislation would have to be passed to enable him or his office to inquire into Siteserv. Ministers can make very clear, concise statements in these Houses on current events. It would be helpful and appropriate if the Minister in question would come to this or the other House to give the history of the sale from his perspective. Public confidence needs to be restored on commercial decisions where there was a political involvement. The saga of the sale of Siteserv needs to be clarified. It involves taxpayers’ money. There was a significant write-down and the taxpayer is funding the deficit. Clarity and full disclosure of information are required.
Senator Paschal Mooney spoke about variable mortgage interest rates. He should not believe everything he reads in the newspapers, as it is not good for anyone to believe everything. However, I take on board what he says about one newspaper claiming credit for AIB reducing its rates, which is a little far-fetched. In its statement of priorities the Government recognises that promoting competition by encouraging new entrants to the banking sector is required to put downward pressure on interest rates for variable rate mortgage customers, new and existing. The actions taken by the Government to promote competition in the banking sector include the establishment of the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland, the credit guarantee scheme and amendment of section 149 of the Consumer Credit Act 1995 to encourage new entrants to the financial sector. The mortgage interest rates independent financial institutions operating in Ireland charge to customers are determined as a result of commercial decisions by the institutions concerned. The Minister for Finance and the Central Bank do not have a statutory role in setting the mortgage interest rates charged.
As part of the Central Bank’s work on the issue of mortgage arrears, lenders were asked to consider all avenues to help customers in arrears, including interest rate reductions. Regulation of interest rates remains a policy area under review and has been the subject of correspondence between the Department of Finance and the Central Bank. At a recent meeting between the Minister for Finance and the Governor of the Central Bank the issue of mortgage interest rates was discussed. The Governor provided an update on ongoing work that he and his officials were carrying out on the standard variable rates charged by lenders. The Governor and the Minister noted that the standard variable rates charged in Ireland were higher than in any other euro area country and had not fallen in line with European Central Bank wholesale rates. The Central Bank will continue to research the reason this is the case and will publish results shortly. The Governor will update the Minister on progress in due course.
As Senator Paul Coghlan and others stated, the Government will have its own suite of additional measures which will be announced soon. I hope that when these measures are announced, we can invite the Minister for Finance to come to the House to explain the position and have the debate on mortgage arrears and the banking sector that has been requested numerous times.
Senator Paschal Mooney and several other Senators, including Senators John Gilroy and Paul Bradford, asked us to remember the approximately 4,000 Irishmen who had lost their lives in the First World War at Gallipoli. Senator John Gilroy also spoke about the fallen in the 1916 Rising and recalled the complexity of our history. There is a need for balanced comment on the issue. I am sure we will all remember the Irishmen who died in the 1916 Rising, Gallipoli and elsewhere during the First World War.
Senators Ivana Bacik and Michael Mullins welcomed the appointment of the Minister of State at the Department of Justice and Equality, Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, as Minister of State with responsibility for the drugs strategy. Members on the other side of the House asked several times for a designated Minister of State to deal with the matter. Everyone will be pleased, therefore, that the responsibility will rest with the Minister of State. We will hear statements on the drugs strategy with either the Minister for Health, Deputy Leo Varadkar, or the Minister of State when the drugs and alcohol briefs have been newly assigned by the second week of May.
Senator Ivana Bacik also spoke about the plight of migrants seeking to enter Europe. I am sure the problems facing so many migrants will be discussed at the EU summit today.
Senator Gerard P. Craughwell welcomed the announcement by the Minister for Finance that the Comptroller and Auditor General was to investigate the Siteserv issue, on which Senator Paul Bradford also commented and on which I gave a comprehensive reply yesterday.
Senator Gerard P. Craughwell also proposed an amendment to the Order of Business that the Minister for Education and Skills come to the House today for a debate on the closure of a school in County Donegal. I suggest the Senator table the issue for discussion in the Commencement debate to enable the Minister to come to the House to give a reply.
Senator Hildegarde Naughton welcomed the planning application submitted by Apple for the data centre near Athenry. There is no doubt that this is an exciting development for County Galway, the west and the country as a whole. It is hoped planning permission will be granted in early course and that this major development will be up and running soon.
Senator Diarmuid Wilson spoke about variable mortgage interest rates, an issue on which I have responded and one about which Senators Paul Coghlan and Aideen Hayden also spoke. The work done by Oireachtas committees is not often recognised. I take the opportunity, therefore, to pay tribute to the finance committee, of which Senator Aideen Hayden is Vice Chairman, for its work on this issue. I wish all members of the committee well in their endeavours in their querying of the other banks as they appear before it in the coming weeks. The committee will probably have more difficulty with them than they had in dealing with the representatives of AIB.
Senator Feargal Quinn spoke about encouraging those involved in tourism and overcoming local challenges that arise from time to time. That is an important point, as people often object to various aspects of tourism development. It is important from a national point of view that we overcome these challenges. We have been very successful in promoting our tourism product, but we cannot rest on or laurels. We must continue to develop the wonderful product we have on offer in this country.
I note the Senator's point on businesses not being equipped to trade online, an issue on which the Minister of State, Deputy Dara Murphy, recently made a statement. There is a need for businesses to become more involved in online trading in the context of their own development.
I do not propose to accept the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by Senator Gerard P. Craughwell.
Senator Gerard P. Craughwell has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That a debate with the Minister for Education and Skills on the imminent closure of Gaelcholáiste Chineál Eoghain on the Inishowen Peninsula be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?
No. I have just received a message that the Minister has agreed to meet the three local Deputies on the issue. I ask, however, that the Leader relay my concerns to her and place her on notice that if we do not hear positive news, I will propose the amendment again.
Order of Business agreed to.
Sitting suspended at 12.15 p.m. and resumed at 1.15 p.m.