Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 27 Sep 2017

Vol. 253 No. 5

Commencement Matters

Traveller Accommodation

Senator Colette Kelleher

I thank the Minister of State for attending today.

I welcome the commissioning of the review by the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government into funding for Traveller-specific accommodation and the implementation of the Traveller accommodation programmes. It followed a very useful meeting that we had, and I thank the Minister for acting upon that. I understand that the housing agency report has been complete since July but it remains unpublished, and I rely on leaked information from The Irish Times article published on 14 September which reported that Traveller accommodation targets have not been fully met at any point since they were made mandatory on local authorities 18 years ago. The article in The Irish Times goes on to say that the leaked report concludes that anti-Traveller prejudice at local authority level may be hampering progress. If the intention of Government policy and the current legislation is that targets for Traveller accommodation would be met in full and that things would improve it is clearly failing. It is failing Traveller women, children and men. The report commissioned by the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government finds that more than €55 million provided for Traveller housing remains unspent since 2000, and just 68% of promised Traveller accommodation units have been provided. All the while, Travellers continue to live in shocking conditions, which I have seen myself at first hand.

There is unacceptable overcrowding on halting sites. Figures from the Department show that the number of Traveller families in need of accommodation since 2000 has more than doubled. In this new leaked report, local authorities agreed that overcrowding was an issue, leading to health and safety concerns. All stakeholder groups agreed that the future assessment of the needs for Traveller families was unfit for purpose. The second anniversary of those who died in the Carrickmines fire is coming up. More people will die in tragedies if these concerns are not addressed. People will continue to live shorter lives and suffer from housing related ill-health. I ask the Minister of State what will be done about all of that.

According to the 2016 census, the Traveller homelessness rate is 11 times higher than the general population. In the last five years the rate of Traveller homelessness has tripled.

The leaked report also finds that the private rented accommodation provisions are extremely difficult for Traveller families to access. Often discrimination and prejudice are getting in the way. People are rejected based on their names alone. It is a landlord's market, as the Minister of State knows, yet some local authorities use private rented accommodation as the alternative to staying on waiting list for Travellers seeking access to Traveller-specific accommodation. Figures show a rise from 162 families in 2002 to 2,222 in 2016. This has rendered increasing numbers of families homeless, further fuelling the crisis. Most Traveller-specific housing and social housing in general is provided by local authorities using the Part VIII planning process but the leaked report further found that the most significant obstacle to the delivery of Traveller accommodation is the planning process itself, particularly objections from settled residents and elected representatives, as the Minister of State well knows.

I note and welcome the Minister's decision to review the Housing (Traveller Accommodation) Act 1998. However, there must also be a review of legislation that affects Travellers in order to alleviate the crisis. For example, the recent amendment to the Planning and Development (Housing) and Residential Tenancies Act 2016, which facilitated developments of more than 100 accommodation units being dealt with directly by An Bord Pleanála without going through local planning processes, could also include Traveller accommodation. Legislation should be introduced immediately to implement this change and decisions to approve specific proposals for Traveller-specific accommodation should be taken away from the local political system and vested in An Bord Pleanála.

There is, at best, systemic apathy and, at worst, prejudice in terms of meeting the accommodation needs of Travellers. An indication of the apathy towards Travellers and their accommodation is reflected in the participation in this leaked review, as the Minister of State knows, where only 26 out of the 31 local authorities responded to the survey and only 22 submitted with sufficient detail across all questions. Significant gaps were found in local authority reporting and inadequate data-keeping. In some cases, there were no standardised recording, reporting and monitoring mechanisms. Indeed the deadline for reporting to the Housing Agency, which the Minister commissioned, was extended twice to facilitate poor responses. Will the Minister of State tell us when the Housing Agency review will be published and his plans to address the issue raised in the report and the major crisis for Travellers and their housing needs?

Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (Deputy Damien English)

I thank Senator Kelleher for providing me with the opportunity to update the House on the Traveller accommodation programme, TAP, review which was recently completed and provided to the national Traveller accommodation committee, NTACC. A Programme for a Partnership Government commits to establishing a special working group to audit the current delivery and implementation of local authorities' Traveller accommodation plans and consult stakeholders on key areas of concern. This commitment was underpinned in Rebuilding Ireland - Action Plan for Housing and Homelessness which provided for the commissioning by the Housing Agency, on behalf of the Department, of an expert, independent review of expenditure on and delivery of Traveller accommodation to underpin the work of the special working group.

In 2016, the Housing Agency commissioned the review, which examined capital and current funding for Traveller-specific accommodation for the period 2000 to date, having regard to the targets contained in the local authority TAPs and actual units delivered. It also examined the current status of the accommodation funded and the funding provided for accommodation maintenance and other supports. Where targets in the TAPs have not been met, the review included an analysis of the underlying reasons to identify the particular challenges that need to be addressed to underpin future progress.

The final report was completed and submitted to the Housing Agency in June and it, in turn, submitted the final report to my Department in July. It was circulated to the NTACC members, considered by a subgroup of the NTACC and discussed at the most recent meeting of the NTACC on 28 August. At this meeting, the NTACC agreed to advise me to establish an expert group to examine and make recommendations on issues regarding Traveller accommodation policy, strategy and implementation. This is in keeping with the commitment in A Programme for a Partnership Government, and I have agreed to proceed with the establishment of this expert group. I have also agreed that a review of the Housing (Traveller Accommodation) Act 1998 should be part of the work of the expert group. The composition and terms of reference and methodology of this expert group are being formulated with a view to it being in place as soon as possible. My Department is making arrangements for the recently completed review to be made available on the Department's website within the next week.

Senator Colette Kelleher

I have two questions. One of them was answered by the Minister of State, namely, when the report will be published. It will be published within the next week. I will monitor that and look forward to seeing it. While the expert group is welcome, it cannot be a delaying tactic or a way of kicking this urgent issue to touch. Over the past 18 years since the legislation was introduced, the targets have never been fully met. Local authorities are sending money back. They are not even making their returns to the review. I would like to hear more specifics from the Minister of State, and not simply the date when the review will be published, which is welcome, and the establishment of an expert group. I would like to know what the Minister of State is going to do about this urgent issue of life and death for Traveller families.

Deputy Damien English

I assure the Senator that it is not a delaying tactic. I only inherited this role a few months ago. There is no agreement on the best way to spend this money. I am not happy in the same way as the Senator is not happy that the money is not being spent where it should be. There are accommodation issues. The budget has increased over the past year. We made sure of that as well. My job as Minister of State is to make sure it is spent.

I will not comment on the review because it is not published yet. I will have no problem commenting on it when it is published next week but, as a habit, I do not comment on leaked documents. We can discuss it in greater detail when it is published next week. Again, it highlights many of the issues that need to be addressed. We must find ways of spending this money. When the committee agrees who will be on the expert commission, I hope it will involve some international experts to find ways of making sure we honour our commitments because it is a priority for Government. We are putting the money back where it should be. I agree with the Senator that if one analyses many of the local authority waiting lists, one sees there is a difficulty for people from Traveller backgrounds, so we need to address that. Likewise, they have different issues as well. Some of them want to live in different places, so we need to accommodate that as best we can. There is no excuse for money not being spent. Along with the review and the report of the commission, I will try to engage with local authorities to make sure the money is spent this year and in the year ahead.

Building Regulations

Senator Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

With the Leas-Chathaoirleach's assistance, my colleague, Senator Conway-Walsh, will take the supplementary question because, obviously, it pertains to Donegal and Mayo. Is that agreeable?

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Senator Mac Lochlainn is starting but the brief supplementary will come from Senator Conway-Walsh?

Senator Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

Yes. Is that okay?

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Perfect.

Senator Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

I appreciate that. The Minister of State is very familiar with this issue. I know he has visited Donegal a number of times and met affected families. He knows it very well at this stage. Even though it had limited terms of reference, the expert panel report, which was published almost four months ago, clearly demonstrated that there was a profound failure in State oversight of the manufacturing of concrete blocks. There was also a failure in building control regulations. Looking at the eight recommendations, it can be seen that they clearly point to a failure in State oversight. What does that mean? According to this report, and based on my own evidence in Donegal, it means that thousands of families in Donegal were profoundly failed by the State. The biggest investment a family will make is, of course, the purchase and securing of the family home through a mortgage or loan. It is a huge investment. They have been left not just with unsafe homes but also with this financial distress. It is deeply distressing for the families. This expert panel report was delayed by one year. This is another year of distress, worry and not knowing what is going to happen. We are now a further four months down the line. All I am asking is that the families affected in Donegal and Mayo receive the same support from this State as did families in Dublin and north Leinster who were affected by pyrite. We are just asking for equality of treatment and equality of support from the State.

There is no more time for dragging heels. The Minister of State knows what needs to be done. We need a redress scheme in order that families can make their homes safe. I have spoken to families in Donegal who are worried that the bison concrete slabs between their floors could come down on top of them. They are worried that their gable could collapse. The Minister has heard these stories as well. We must do something about this. There must be financial supports for families who are already paying a mortgage. They have seen their houses devalued profoundly, so in the vast majority of cases they do not have the financial capacity to do it themselves.

The State needs to step up here. It failed in its responsibilities. The concrete block is the core component of the family home in Ireland. Not ensuring those blocks were manufactured to a proper safe standard and that building control measures were right and proper was a huge failure. It is a collective failure of our State and we need see collective responsibility being taken. Now, four months after the publication of this report, I urge the Minister of State, please, to put in place a redress scheme for the families in Donegal and Mayo who desperately need the Government's help.

Deputy Damien English

I thank both Senators for raising this important issue. It is one that affects many people and one that has been raised weekly by colleagues from all parties. I reiterate that it is important we realise it is an issue which we must all work together to resolve as best we can.

I acknowledge the very difficult and distressing situation that certain home owners in Donegal and Mayo face on account of damage to the structural integrity of their homes. I have seen some of these damaged homes first-hand and have met home owners in both Donegal and Mayo and understand what they are going through. The will is there to try to help people through this difficult phase.

I understand clearly the difficulties they face. I firmly believe the parties responsible for poor workmanship and the supply of defective materials should face up to their responsibilities and take appropriate actions to provide remedies to affected home owners. The Senators may reread the report and see what it says exactly because it does refer to defective materials. That is the root cause of this problem. The expert panel on concrete blocks was established by my Department in April 2016 to investigate problems that have emerged in the concrete block work of certain dwellings in counties Donegal and Mayo. I will not go through the panel's terms of reference again but it was about trying to establish the number of houses in question. We now know roughly the breakdown in Mayo and Donegal. Much good work has been done by the different action groups in gathering that information and sharing it with the expert panel. I ask people to continue to do that and to identify themselves if they have properties in which they believe mica or pyrite is present, because that helps us formulate our plans. A major part of the work of the expert panel and the reason it took time was to work out a process on how best to address these houses and remedy the problems, including the technical solutions involved, which is the key part. Most of the residents who have engaged with it understand the process. We are all annoyed that it took longer than we had hoped, but we understand the processes we had to go through. The Senator referred to other schemes, and similarly there were formulas used there.

I received the report of the expert panel in June 2017. It is comprehensive and addresses all areas of the terms of reference. On 13 June 2017, I published the report. It has eight recommendations. My Department has already taken action to implement recommendations 1 and 2 as priorities. Having spoken to the residents of affected houses, they understand the process and that recommendations 1 and 2 are key to their situation. The others apply more to the future but are not the main issues for the residents currently affected. We had to prioritise recommendations 1 and 2, so that is what we are doing.

With regard to recommendation 1, the testing and categorisation protocol, the National Standards Authority of Ireland, NSAI, technical committee, established to scope and fast-track the development of a standardised protocol, held its inaugural meeting on 11 September 2017 and has scheduled several further meetings for the coming weeks. I am pleased to hear its work is progressing well.

With regard to recommendation 2, competent professional oversight, my Department has been in contact with Engineers Ireland about the establishment of a register of competent engineers for home owners' or affected parties’ reference. Engineers Ireland provided assurance that it will collaborate with the Department, the NSAI and others on measures to establish such a register.

On 19 July 2017, I visited Donegal and met key stakeholders. Many public representatives from all parties attended that meeting. I met affected home owners and members of groups working with them and other interested parties. We discussed the publication of the report and its recommendations. I explained the importance for me as a Minister of State in this area of the priority in implementing recommendations 1 and 2. Regardless of how these solutions will be funded or who will step up, and I referred from the start to the many stakeholders involved in this, we must establish the protocols to do this properly. That is the number one issue. The residents understood that, as did the local councillors. We are doing this as quickly as possible. I also visited Mayo some weeks later and had similar discussions with stakeholders there and urged all the various groups to come forward with their plans in order that we can identify the numbers.

I fully appreciate and understand the urgency of this matter. I understand that some people have suffered a lot in recent years and that they want solutions, but I want to be clear that as a Department, we are on this matter. We are implementing recommendations 1 and 2 and will then consider how best we can drive this on and solve the matter. The first thing is to identify the technical solutions and the process. I cannot emphasise this enough. I will not jeopardise this by making a commitment that they will be finished in a week when it will take a few months but the expert panel is there from the NSAI and there are good people with experience on this matter dealing with it. I am happy we will move this on quite soon.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Senator Conway-Walsh has one minute in which to ask a brief supplementary question.

Senator Rose Conway-Walsh

I thank the Minister of State for coming to Mayo. I speak on behalf of the action group there. I was very disappointed, as was the action group, that I was not invited to attend that meeting and was excluded from it. As the Minister of State knows, I and Senator Mac Lochlainn have been working on this matter for several years. However, it is not about us. It is about the home owners.

Did the Minister of State ask the Minister for Finance for a line in the budget to provide for these homes? I fully understand that the Minister of State cannot yet quantify the amount that may be necessary, but while he says the home owners understand the delays, they do not. What they do understand is that if the Minister of State has requested a line in the budget to provide for the homes affected by pyrite, they do not expect him to have a whole figure. That said, they want a gesture of an amount that would show his and the Government's solid intention to address this in an equitable way, as it was the case for the eastern side of the country.

Deputy Damien English

I recognise the involvement of many people across all parties and at all levels of public representation, at local level and council level. I am surprised that Senator Conway-Walsh was not at the meeting. I do not know why she was not invited. Her Sinn Féin colleague was there so there is no issue of that. She would have been very welcome there because it was cross-party, which we proved in Donegal. I am not making this issue political. I want it resolved and am committed to doing that.

I disagree with the Senator that people do not understand. The home owners I met who are affected by this understand that I have to go through a process. I explained to them that if I do not follow the process indicated in the recommendations, it could jeopardise any funding to resolve the matter. There has to be a logical way to address this with technical solutions, and then the money can be put behind it. I will repeat what I said. There are many stakeholders involved in the process. There were defective materials and the matter needs to be addressed. My job is to ensure we find a solution for the residents. That is my commitment and I will continue to work towards it.

Senator Rose Conway-Walsh

Will the Minister of State guarantee -----

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I cannot allow the Senator in again under the rules.

Senator Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

When the report was published-----

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Unfortunately, I am not allowed to let Senator Mac Lochlainn in again under the rules, I am sorry.

Senator Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

There was a very different -----

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

We are moving on. I thank the Minister of State and the Senators. I see the Minister of State, Deputy John Paul Phelan, is present. We will take the item to which he is responding next as the Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly, is not here yet.

Local Authority Members' Remuneration

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

With the House's permission, we move to Senators Aidan Davitt and Robbie Gallagher who are sharing their time and have two minutes each.

Senator Aidan Davitt

We are splitting the time.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

The Senators have two minutes each.

Senator Aidan Davitt

It is two and a half minutes. We have five minutes.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

No, the Senators only have four.

Senator Aidan Davitt

Five.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

If the Senators agree not to make a supplementary contribution, they can have two and a half minutes each.

Senator Aidan Davitt

No, we will take two minutes each or as near we can. I welcome the Minister of State to the House. On behalf of the Fianna Fáil Senators and councillors, it is with a heavy heart we meet. There was a time that when Ministers gave a commitment, it meant something. Unfortunately, the Minister of State presides over what is now the Department of broken promises. During the Fine Gael leadership campaign, the then Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government, Deputy Simon Coveney, sat where the Minister of State sits now and promised councillors €5,000 in expenses annually and a pay increase of €1,000 starting on 1 July. He was adamant about it at the time. We were told it was written into legislation. The Minister of State will be aware this has not happened.

I appreciate that the Minister of State has only got his feet under the desk and we wish him the best in his role. I am aware of his previous work and I know he is a hard worker and comes with that reputation. I have great hopes. I implore him to give me a date for when the pay increase will start. That is the simple question he is here to answer today. When will the expenses kick in and will there be back pay to the date from which the increases were promised?

We are haemorrhaging talent from councils. In the Minister of State's electoral area, a Fianna Fáil councillor was replaced in recent days. In my own county of Westmeath, there was a Fianna Fáil co-option in the previous week.

The week before that there was a Fianna Fáil co-option in Offaly. Those are only three of which I am aware. I am sure it has happened in other parties too. I implore the Minister of State to take a stand on this issue in his new Department. I ask that he would hold his head high when he leaves office and say he did the right thing by councillors.

Senator Robbie Gallagher

I, too, welcome the Minister of State to the Chamber. It is disappointing in many ways that we are back here discussing this same issue despite the promise that was made about its resolution, as my colleague, Senator Davitt, outlined. I am sure the Minister of State will agree we are fortunate to have so many hard-working local authority members throughout the country. The problem is due to changes made by Mr. Phil Hogan when he was a Minister. The workload of county councillors and the geographic area which they have to cover is now, despite their best efforts, nearly impossible. In my constituency of Cavan and Monaghan, in the past 18 months to two years we have had a turnover of three or four councillors. All of them cite the same reason, which is that they simply cannot do the work of a local authority member properly and hold down a job at the same time. I am sure this does not come as a foreign language to the Minister of State. I am sure he has the finger on the pulse himself and that he knows what I am saying is correct.

We are less than 18 months away from the next local elections. I believe I speak on behalf of all local authority members and Senators when I plead that the issues alluded to by my colleague, Senator Davitt, should be grappled with once and for all. Otherwise we will continue to lose good people. As a former local authority member, I am convinced there is no element of democracy closer to the public than the county councillor. Unless we do something to address the issue, we will lose more people. I spoke to many county councillors who are seriously considering their position because they cannot afford to do the work and travel to regional and local meetings while holding down a job at the same time. I therefore request earnestly that the Minister of State grasp the issue and address it once and for all.

Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (Deputy John Paul Phelan)

This is a good opportunity to outline the current position with regard to councillors' pay and conditions. I thank Senators Davitt and Gallagher for raising it. I think Senator Davitt was a little melodramatic in calling the Department the Department of broken promises. A commitment was given and it is still intended that it would be honoured. There was a time not that long ago when the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government, as it is now called, would be able to make the decision itself, but now it requires joint approval with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. That is where the issue rests at the moment. In terms of dates and times, it is my intention that it would be finalised before Hallowe'en and that it will be backdated to when it was originally due to be implemented.

The Senators are correct in terms of councillors leaving office. I have come across it myself. It is occurring much more regularly in recent years. The major contributor is the workload involved while trying to continue with a full-time job or rearing a family. These are huge issues. I recently met Women for Election with a view to looking at some of the examples that were mentioned, and I also met some councillors in my constituency. Senator Davitt mentioned the retirement of Councillor Anne Ahern in Carlow, who received a significant promotion. I am not sure she would have been able to continue anyway. However, I acknowledge her work in Carlow County Council over many years. She was a very effective councillor.

Senator Gallagher raised the anomaly between city councillors and county councillors. It is proposed that the city councillors will get the same increase as county councillors.

Effective local government structures are an essential part of our democracy. I was a child councillor myself 20 years ago. In turn, effective local government cannot be achieved without the hard work and commitment of elected members in service of their communities. A range of financial supports are in place to assist councillors in their work. These include the representational payment, fixed annual expenses, a travel and subsistence allowance, a mobile phone allowance, a retirement gratuity and conference and training provision. A Programme for a Partnership Government includes a commitment to review the supports provided to councillors in consultation with representative bodies. The former Minister, Deputy Simon Coveney, met representatives of the Association of Irish Local Government, AILG, and the Local Authority Members Association to discuss the view of their members that positive consideration should be given to improving the range of supports available.

In January this year, taking account of the considerable additional workload councillors have experienced since 2014 and the reforms of local government, the former Minister announced two important changes to support councillors in their role as public representatives. First, a new allowance of €1,000 per annum is to be introduced in recognition of the work councillors undertake in carrying out their reserved functions at municipal district level, and second, a new vouched annual expenses allowance of up to a maximum of €5,000 is to be introduced, which councillors may choose to opt for in place of the existing unvouched rate of approximately €2,500. It is proposed that the allowable expenditure categories and documentation requirements of this new vouched system would be aligned, as appropriate, with the arrangements in place for Oireachtas Members. While it was intended that these new measures would be implemented with effect from 1 July, the Association of Irish Local Government requested that further consideration be given to the terms and conditions that would apply. I subsequently met a delegation from the AILG shortly after I assumed office myself to understand its views on the matter. A particular concern raised, which I acknowledged, was to ensure appropriate recognition of the workload of all councillors at sub-county level throughout the country.

As Senators will appreciate, the introduction of measures of this kind requires the amendment of regulations made under section 142 of the Local Government Act 2001, which requires the consent of the Minister for Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform. Draft amending regulations have been prepared and are under consideration between the two Departments. While the matter is taking longer than intended, it is important that the measures are implemented from the outset in a manner that is fair to all councillors.

I thank the Senators for raising this matter and ask for their continued patience while procedural matters associated with the measures outlined are finalised. I reiterate the intention that this will be resolved before Hallowe'en.

Senator Aidan Davitt

I will speak on my own behalf and on behalf of other Senators, including Senator Mark Daly who got tied up on the way to the meeting here. I was only talking to him a few moments ago. He just could not make it here today. I appreciate the Minister of State's answer and his honesty. He has given us a timeframe, which we did not have before now. We were in the dark. I know the Minister of State met representatives from the AILG and that they found the meeting quite productive. We welcome the commitment to introduce it by Hallowe'en. It would be great if it happened. We certainly would welcome it. We are delighted to hear about the backpay as well and that expenses will be examined. Will the anomaly between county councillors and city councillors be sorted out in the same timeframe?

Deputy John Paul Phelan

Yes, that is the intention. It is part of the reason for the delay.

Senator Aidan Davitt

I appreciate that. I know that this is also close to the heart of the Leas-Chathaoirleach, a man who has worked hard on it over the years.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Had the Senator another question? The clock is running.

Senator Aidan Davitt

The Leas-Chathaoirleach will not be harsh on one of his own. I appreciate the Minister of State's clarification on that point. I was concerned about reports in the media about the councillor who was on maternity leave. I am sure the Minister of State saw it. Has he any thoughts on it?

Deputy John Paul Phelan

I will not comment on individual cases.

Senator Aidan Davitt

I appreciate that.

Deputy John Paul Phelan

I think it is a broader question about how we pay local government members and ensure the same benefits that accrue to other workers accrue to them. Following on from this decision, there will be some consideration as to further reforms for members in local authorities to bring them in line with every other public servant, which is effectively what they are.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I thank the Minister of State and the Senators. We all appreciate that it is an important issue.

Non-Consultant Hospital Doctors

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

The Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly, has arrived. It is a long way from Skibbereen but the good man is here. I call Senator Colm Burke. The floor is his.

Senator Colm Burke

I thank the Minister of State for attending to deal with this matter. I have raised this issue with regard to junior doctors consistently over the past four to five years.

In 2012, I conducted a survey of people doing their final medical examinations in Irish universities. It indicated that more than 60% of them did not intend to work in Ireland once they had finished their internship. A survey published in recent days indicates this number may very well have increased to 80%. While we have had various reports going back to 2003, including the MacCraith report and the second MacCraith report, which dealt with training for junior doctors, we do not seem to be making any progress.

I had to leave a meeting of the health committee with the Minister, Deputy Harris, to come here. The committee received a report on training and development in the HSE for the first six months of 2017, which showed we are underspending by approximately 36% on training and development. This concerns me because we want to retain junior doctors and we do not seem to be proactive in dealing with this. I made the point at the committee that the HSE has recruited more than 2,000 administrative and managerial staff in two years. We now have 17,000 managers and administrators in the HSE but, at the same time, we seem to have done nothing for the people working at the coal face, namely, junior doctors. We have a major problem with smaller hospitals, which are finding it extremely difficult to recruit senior house officers, registrars and senior registrars, particularly in places such as Letterkenny, Sligo, Castlebar, Clonmel, Waterford, Tralee and even Limerick. We need to address this issue, and it is for this reason I have tabled this question. We need major reform in how we provide for this category of personnel in the HSE at front-line level.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Jim Daly)

I thank the Senator who has been very consistent, dedicated and committed to this cause. I commend this and I thank him for raising this important issue. As a country, we invest considerable resources in training our non-consultant hospital doctors, NCHDs. As recently as Tuesday this week, a report published by the RCSI highlighted that more than 80% of trainee doctors have said that working conditions, training opportunities, and work-life balance are factors that would influence their decision to leave Ireland. Last Saturday, the Minister, Deputy Harris, attended for the second time the annual medical careers day, where he was struck by the enthusiasm of the students. It is vital that we continue to foster a positive attitude and support these medical students during their time in training.

National Doctors Training and Planning, NDTP, in the HSE funds postgraduate training for trainees through service level agreements with each individual training body for the various specialties. It also provides financial supports to NCHDs through two separate funding schemes for the costs involved in undertaking exams and courses. The first of these is the clinical course and exam refund scheme. NDTP provides funding of €450 for mandatory courses or exams undertaken in Ireland and €650 towards exams taken outside of Ireland. It is recognised though that sometimes the costs of courses or exams will exceed this amount. The second scheme is the higher specialist fund. This fund is available to higher specialist trainees, including GP registrars. In total there are approximately 1,500 of these trainees. Trainees are entitled to €500 per year of higher specialist training. This equates to €2,500 for those on a five year training programme. The total number of trainees is now more than 3,700 and this number has grown in recent years. In addition, the number of NCHDs who do not occupy training posts is growing. The total number of NCHDs has increased by more than 1,000, to approximately 6,000 in the past three years. While this increase is welcome, it must be recognised that the budget available to NDTP has to cover more trainees than previously.

The strategic review of medical training and career structure working group, chaired by Professor Brian MacCraith, published three reports in 2013 and 2014, and made 25 recommendations. The need to support NCHD training was highlighted by the group. I will mention some particular successes already achieved in implementing the MacCraith group’s recommendations, including the appointment of lead NCHDs. This role involves representing all NCHDs in their dealings with clinical directorates and hospital management. There is also the improvement of the work-life situation of NCHDs. The HSE has agreed to double the number of family-friendly training places over a three-year period, and the recruitment of additional NCHDs has meant significant reductions in working hours. The Department remains committed to the full implementation of the recommendations of the group. This includes recommendations relating directly to NCHD training needs and assisting in the recruitment and retention of key medical staff. On this basis, it was agreed earlier this year that management and the Irish Medical Organisation would undertake a review of the continuing education requirements of NCHDs. This review is due to commence in the near future and will be undertaken under the auspices of the Workplace Relations Commission. It is important that we continue to improve the working conditions of NCHDs and support their training needs to the maximum extent possible.

Senator Colm Burke

I thank the Minister of State. I fully accept a serious effort has been made with the MacCraith report, but I am very concerned that while the report set out a huge number of recommendations, it is not clarified how many of the 25 recommendations have been implemented. Perhaps we could get answers to this. I thought the MacCraith report would resolve many of the issues, but we are not resolving them and, in fact, we are going backwards. I am extremely concerned.

Another issue which has arisen to cause further problems is the number of doctors coming from abroad is not as plentiful as what it used to be because Ireland is no longer seen as an attractive training location for junior doctors from abroad. They have other choices such as Australia, Canada and New Zealand and we are not competing for them. We have a major challenge. If we want to reduce hospital waiting lists we need to have enough people at the front line to be able to do so. We have a problem with junior doctors, and because we have a problem with them we now also have a problem with recruiting consultants. This is something that needs to be given priority by the Department.

Deputy Jim Daly

I undertake to get the Senator an update on the recommendations of the MacCraith report from the Department and furnish the Senator with a detailed update on how many recommendations were made, what actions have been taken, how many have been implemented and what steps have been taken to ensure the full enactment of all of the recommendations. I will do this without delay. I thank the Senator for his continued interest and help in this area.

Sitting suspended at 11.20 a.m. and resumed at 11.30 a.m.