Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 30 Mar 2023

Vol. 293 No. 3

Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters

Banking Sector

Senator Tim Lombard

I thank the Minister of State, who is more than welcome to the Chamber. I am raising this issue about the vulture funds and the regulation in place to ensure appropriate dialogue is in place between both the client and the vulture fund itself. I raised this issue on the back of meeting several people in west Cork in the past two to three weeks. O'Donovan's Hotel in Clonakilty is probably the one that is being well-talked about at the moment. This is a family hotel of seven generation standing being hounded out of business by a vulture fund. The hotel has put significant offers on the table and it cannot get a response.

It is not just O'Donovan's Hotel in Clonakilty. I am dealing with farmers from the Bandon area and two different shopkeepers in Kinsale and it is like the wild west at the moment. The vulture funds have come into town, have looked at portfolios that have value and want to appoint a receiver to close up shop. What is happening is completely chaotic.

AIB and its involvement in the scandal also has to be mentioned. It sold the majority of these loans, moved them on for very small money and did its best to wash its hands of clients that were with the bank for generations.

There is one vulture fund in particular called Everyday Finance DAC, about which I have the issue at the moment. We cannot deal or make contact with it here. It is working to a law unto itself and the Central Bank needs to do appropriate work to ensure these funds are regulated appropriately.

We are looking at companies in a scenario where receivers are being appointed-----

An Cathaoirleach

Iarraim ar an Seanadóir a bheith cúramach, lena thoil. The Senators should be careful of making charges against individuals or organisations, and to protect himself also.

Senator Tim Lombard

Absolutely, Chair, and I thank you.

To clarify, the vulture fund epidemic in west Cork needs to be addressed. The funds have moved into town and are appointing receivers on a weekly basis on to properties. They are also suppressing information. We are dealing with a scenario where when it comes to legal documentation, these funds will only provide limited information, which means that clients must go to the High Court to get documentation regarding the loans they have taken out. The clients will not get this documentation from the vulture funds themselves. These funds are refusing offers without any explanation as to why nor are the clients being informed as to why this is so.

The other issue is that in one case, the vulture fund agreed an offer and then moved on from that offer when the client came up with the money, and it would not agree to the figure when the money was made available.

We have significant issues here and I am very concerned about where this is going to go. There has been an activity in the marketplace in the past six to eight months where the view taken is that these funds will come into town and will liquidate properties, hotels, farms and shops. The Central Bank needs to step in because engagement is not there. There is no engagement and it is an active policy of the funds not to talk to their clients. The frustration within communities is beyond belief.

There is also a knock-on fear because interest rates have gone up in the past few months and we are now genuinely concerned about where unfortunate people are who may be under pressure in the future. Will AIB do the exact same thing it has done previously? Will it move more loans onto vulture funds, which will create the exact same issue, where the vulture funds will not deal with the client and will liquidate their properties?

The Central Bank needs to step in. It has ultimate power and regulation and it is the broker in this game. The Central Bank needs to come into town to ensure regulations are put in place to ensure that this issue is dealt with.

We need to have public interest directors brought back into play. We had public interest directors - the Chair knows this well - on bank boards previously. They need to come back because without the public interest directors, the banking system will operate like the wild west.

Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill)

I thank the Senator for raising this important issue.

Before giving him a proper answer in respect of the Central Bank and mortgage protection, as a constituency Deputy, I completely understand the scenario he is raising. I will not comment on any individual case but I too have had cases of mortgage holders trying to contact providers and not being able to get through. If it is the other way around, such communication is registered as a "not call back". There is an imbalance in respect of communication and in how people engage. I fully understand that from a constituency Deputy perspective. That is why in the Department of Finance we have raised this with the Central Bank. I know that the senior Minister, Deputy McGrath, in his monthly engagements with the Governor has asked whether the Central Bank believes it needs any more powers, beyond the powers it currently has in respect of non-bank lenders at present.

At present, as the Senator will be aware, the Central Bank has a range of measures to protect consumers who have taken out mortgages. The consumer protection framework seeks to ensure that all Central Bank regulated entities, such as the ones the Senator described, are transparent and fair in all of their dealings with borrowers and that borrowers are protected from the beginning to the end of the mortgage life cycle. For example, through initial marketing and advertising, in assessing affordability and suitability, but also at a time where borrowers may find themselves in financial difficulties. That may or may not be the case in the situation the Senator has mentioned, or in situations where there are non-bank lenders involved where these may well be performing loans. This applies to all scenarios, at all stages of the holding of a mortgage. This consumer protection framework applies to all Central Bank regulated entities that provide mortgage or other credit to consumers.

In addition, following the Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Act 2015 and 2018, any entity that services or holds the legal title to the rights of a creditor under such a mortgage or other credit agreement will, unless it already has an appropriate authorisation from the Central Bank, be required to be authorised by the bank as a credit servicing retail credit firm. These entities, which are often referred to as vulture funds, must act in accordance with Irish financial services law, and with the consumer protection regulatory framework that applies to all Central Bank regulated firms. It is currently the case, therefore, that where a loan is sold or assigned to another entity, the consumer protections that were available to borrowers prior to the transaction continue to be in place with the new owner. This ensures the relevant borrowers maintain the same regulatory protections they had when the loan was originally made, including under the various Central Bank statutory codes of conduct such the consumer protection code and the code of conduct on mortgage arrears, CCMA.

In particular, the code of conduct on mortgage arrears provides specific protections for borrowers in arrears facing the prospect of arrears on a loan secured on a primary residence. All relevant regulated entities, such as a bank, a retail credit firm or a credit servicing firm, must proactively encourage borrowers to engage with it about financial difficulties that may prevent them from meeting their mortgage repayments. Moreover, where a borrower is experiencing repayment difficulty, a regulated entity must explore all the options for an alternative repayment arrangement offered by the entity to determine whether a more suitable and sustainable repayment option is available based on the borrower's individual circumstances.

If a borrower is not satisfied with the options proposed, or if the regulated entity declines to offer an ARA, an appeals mechanism is provided for in the CCMA. In addition, a regulated entity must review an ARA at intervals that are appropriate to the type and duration of the arrangement, including at least 30 calendar days.

Nevertheless, in practicality, I understand that the case the Senator described is as much about communication with the entity as anything else. It is about being able to reach somebody at the other end of the phone, and it relates to a much more basic level of communication, in the first instance for example, than what I have described.

I have run out of time but I will give more detail in my follow-up response.

Senator Tim Lombard

The policy among banks previously was all about communication. It was about having the conversation, whereas the role of bank manager is now defunct. They are like the parish priest; they do not exist any more. There are no bank managers. If you want one, you should call a phone line, and that is the first issue we have. The problem with vulture funds is that even if you call them, you will not get a response or acknowledgement. The Minister of State made an interesting point when she stated that if a client did not respond, he or she would be considered not to have engaged, but on the other side, there seems to be no acknowledgement of that happening, and that is a big issue for clients. The majority of these people are able to pay; the problem is they cannot engage because they are not able to talk to these entities or individuals.

The Governor of the Central Bank needs to take a completely different look at what is happening. The movement in the marketplace in the past six months with respect to vulture funds has been frightening. They have moved on properties that relate to assets that are worth multiples of the loan. They are then selling them in online auctions, without having carried out due diligence regarding title deeds and everything else, and they are getting only a fraction of the value. That is the other issue. They dispose of properties but get only a fraction of the value because of how they handle the sale. This is a massive mess. The Central Bank needs to be brought in and spoken to about this issue. Otherwise, the wild west out there will continue.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

I assure the Senator that, while the Central Bank is an independent regulator, the Minister for Finance engages with the Governor monthly, and the question of regulation and engagement with non-bank lenders has been raised and continues to be raised. The Central Bank has advised it expects all regulated entities to take a consumer-focused approach in respect of any decision that affects their customers. In particular, the protection of mortgage loan borrowers, including those in arrears, is a key priority and the Central Bank has indicated it will continue to supervise compliance by all the regulated entities with the CCMA and the consumer protection code.

The code is not voluntary. It is mandatory, and there is no question of regulated entities not following it. Failure to do so can result in the Central Bank using its range of powers to ensure adherence to the code, including administrative sanctions and legal action. I encourage the Senator, if he has information he wishes to share with the Central Bank about a regulated firm not complying with the code, to submit that information to the Central Bank as soon as possible.

Local Authorities

An Cathaoirleach

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan.

Senator Victor Boyhan

I welcome the Minister of State on this bright spring morning. It is great to see him back in the House. The matter I raise relates to the derelict site levy. As he will know, there are 31 local authorities, so there are varying performances in respect of its collection. It is more of a challenge for big urban areas and cities than it is for some rural areas, given land values, dereliction and a range of other reasons, but it has become an issue. I am loath to suggest the Revenue Commissioners should have any additional work, but I am also pragmatic enough to know that when the Revenue Commissioners are involved in the collection of outstanding taxes or levies due to the State, people perform and live up to that expectation. Revenue has an exceptionally good name. Indeed, as someone who has represented a number of people over many years who have had difficulties with Revenue, I have always found it to be very amenable and progressive in its engagement. The Minister of State might outline what he considers we should or should not do about this issue.

In preparing for this Commencement matter, I made contact with a number of local authorities, and I will speak about the one that covers the area where I live because it gives some measure of the challenges. Currently, there is just over €700,000 in outstanding instances of the derelict site levy in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, as was confirmed to me by the council this week. Two of the properties have been on the register for many years, while two others have high valuations, and the four of them constitute the bulk of the outstanding levies owed. The volume of debt, therefore, that is due to the local authority relates mostly to these four key large sites. Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council has made great progress over the past three years in reducing the number of sites on its register and, in turn, reducing the volume of site levies owed, and I acknowledge the significant work of the chief executive of that council and the staff who are responsible for this area. Nevertheless, there are currently 11 sites on the register, even if a number of them are in the process of being developed.

What I found common among all the local authorities to which I spoke were sites that are in receivership. There seems to be no commitment or support. A general comment from city and county managers, or chief executives as we call them now, indicated it is difficult to engage in cases of receivership. The owners do not see it as an issue or challenge but rather that they believe that, because their property is in receivership, the new people coming in can deal with it, but that can go on for years. That is not good enough, not least when, as we know, local authorities are struggling to get funding. That is the real challenge.

The derelict sites levy amounts to 7% shy of the market value of the land concerned. The Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage may prescribe a higher percentage, but it cannot be more than 10% of the market value. That is a challenge in itself. There are also the fines associated with the payment, or the lack thereof, and there are issues with the length of time. How can we assist and support the chief executives in our local authorities, and the authorities themselves, to get in this money? Not only is it a levy on derelict sites but these sites are sitting idle at a time of a housing crisis. What are the Government's policies for the rejuvenation and renewal of our cities, towns and villages? It all goes hand in hand and is linked. Will the Government consider, in consultation with the CCMA, how we can progress this matter and, perhaps, empower Revenue to collect the levy on behalf of the local authorities?

Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Malcolm Noonan)

I am taking the spirit of the question the Senator is asking as regarding assistance to local authorities in collecting the revenue and in animating sites for activation for development. I think this is a very important issue.

For some background, the Derelict Sites Act 1990, as amended, imposes a general duty on every owner and occupier of land to take all responsible steps to ensure the land does not become or continue to be a derelict site. The Act also imposes a duty on local authorities to take all reasonable steps, including the exercise of appropriate statutory powers, to ensure any land within their functional area will not become or continue to be a derelict site. Local authority powers include requiring owners or occupiers to take appropriate measures on derelict sites, acquiring derelict sites by agreement or compulsorily and applying a derelict sites levy on derelict sites.

It is a matter for local authorities to determine the most appropriate use of the legislation within their respective functional areas.

There is currently no proposal to replace the derelict site levy with a tax. Such a measure would require new legislation by the Department of Finance for, as suggested by the Senator, the collection of the tax by the Revenue Commissioners. However, the Department continues to liaise with local authorities on the enforcement and implementation of the Derelict Sites Act 1990, as well as on the collection of levies due, with a view to improving its effectiveness in delivering on its objectives. My Department initiated a review of the Derelict Sites Act 1990 in November 2021 and invited local authorities to make initial submissions on potential improvements to legislative provisions and how they are applied. A focused working group of local authority officials nominated by the City and County Managers Association, CCMA, was subsequently established. The working group met on three occasions during 2022 and remains active. It is expected that the report of the group will be finalised shortly. The recommendations contained in the report will be considered once it is received.

Addressing vacancy and dereliction and maximising the use of existing housing stock is a priority objective of the Government, with a range of concerted actions currently being progressed in this area. Pathway 4 of Housing for All sets out a blueprint to address vacancy and make efficient use of existing housing stock. Many areas of cities, towns and villages of all sizes face the blight of vacant and derelict properties, which, if brought back into use, could add real vibrancy and provide new accommodation in local areas and towns. Measures being taken to address vacancy and dereliction include a vacant homes action plan launched by the Government on 30 January, which captures and reports on progress across all objectives in pathway 4 of Housing for All and the planned actions to continue to bring vacant homes into use and maximise use of existing housing stock.

The town centre first policy, a major new policy initiative that aims to tackle vacancy, combat dereliction and breathe new life into our town centres has also been launched. A €150 million urban regeneration development fund has been made available for local authorities to acquire vacant or derelict properties. This has been supplemented by new guidance for local authorities on acquiring properties compulsorily, providing a step-by-step guide on the process to be followed in the compulsory purchase of derelict sites by local authorities. The vacant property refurbishment grant funded by the Croí Cónaithe towns fund was launched on 14 July 2022 for eligible vacant properties in towns and villages. On 15 November 2022, the grant was extended to include vacant properties in cities and towns in rural areas. A grant of up to €30,000 is available, with an additional €20,000, bringing it up to €50,000, available in the case of derelict properties. The fair deal scheme has been reformed and the Minister has extended planning regulations to exempt certain vacant commercial premises, including vacant spaces over shops, from the requirement for planning permission for change of use to residential accommodation. I will make a supplementary contribution if that is okay but those are just some of the initiatives we have taken to try to address the issues of vacancy and dereliction across the country.

Senator Victor Boyhan

I thank the Minister of State for the comprehensive response. It is a little weak but not on his part. I am glad we have had this dialogue because there are derelict sites and a housing crisis. There are motions every second week in the Dáil on the housing crisis. It points up a weakness that reports on derelict sites were done by the CCMA in 2021 and 2022, and it will soon issue an interim report on derelict sites, yet the country is blitzed with derelict sites. The Land Development Agency, LDA, stated yesterday it can build houses all over the place. It has been in operation for a few years and has built sweet damn all. It bought houses from private developers to fill a quota.

There is a case to be made here. There are derelict sites in all our towns and villages. We need to do something. This is weak legislation. There needs to be a penalty. I posed a question to the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage as to whether responsibility for the collection of tax should be given to Revenue. I did not suggest it should be although I believe Revenue is the only organisation that can get the money in. I thank the Minister of State and look forward to seeing the report. We must ask the CCMA to come up with a report. We have a problem. There is a housing crisis and derelict sites are sitting on the books. Local authority managers tell me they cannot get the money in and the sites are sitting derelict. That is a challenge for us all.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

I take from the Senator's question that he sees a lack of urgency. I will relay that comment back to the Department. Regarding the working group, it is important that it concludes its work and is able to issue a set of recommendations to the Minister. The measures I outlined to address vacancy and dereliction are having an impact across the country. While it is perhaps not on the scale we want them to, they are making good ground across the country. I announced grants in the last few weeks that also address our heritage building stock, in which the Senator has a major interest. There is no doubt this is a challenge, including for local government, to take in that revenue, which is the leverage by which we activate these sites for productive use. I will relay the concerns the Senator raised to the Department.

Cross-Border Co-operation

Senator John McGahon

I wish to discuss cross-Border tourism initiatives, focusing on the Carlingford ferry, a ferry service that goes from the shore in Greenore across Carlingford Lough to Greencastle, County Down. It is similar to several other ferries that operate around this island, particularly in Strangford Lough and between Tarbert, County Kerry, and County Clare. Making sure the communities on both sides of the Border are joined up is vital. I bring this matter to the attention of the Minister of State and the Minister responsible for tourism to emphasise how important these transport links are to Border communities like mine. We are currently trying to promote not just the north east or County Louth but the whole economic corridor between Dublin and Belfast. The Cooley Peninsula and the south of the Mourne mountains play an important part in that initiative and promotion. Carlingford ferry is at the heart of that project.

A major development in this area in the next few years will be the construction of the Narrow Water bridge after 40 years. The Acting Chairperson, Senator Blaney, will be aware of this project as he is a member of the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. From a tourism perspective, we wish to ensure the bridge is linked up with Carlingford ferry to promote the entire region so people can come up to north County Louth and south County Down, go across on the ferry to County Down, along the lovely Mourne coastline, come back over on the Narrow Water bridge and back along north County Louth. It will be an important tourism initiative but to ensure that is the case and that people come to the area, we must provide that all the infrastructure, for want of a better word, is on the same level playing field.

I have sought this debate to ensure the infrastructure is treated the same and the Carlingford ferry service is acknowledged as an important tourism initiative. The Government can acknowledge this by examining some of the issues in that area and ensuring businesses, particularly the Carlingford ferry service, are supported at every juncture. As I said, looking at it in a wider context of a united Ireland and trying to bring both communities on this island closer together, the more interaction and economic opportunity we have, particularly in Border regions, the better.

One of the greatest tourism initiatives in County Louth over the last couple of years is what is called the Louth seafood trail, which is a seafood trail of restaurants and different areas along the coastline of County Louth. What we want to do and what we should do is join up with Newry, Mourne and Down District Council to promote its concept of a food trail down the Mourne Mountains. The vital part of that is the Carlingford Lough ferry as a connecting point between the two local authorities. It would be mean that people can travel from County Louth along its coastline and catch the ferry sailing to enjoy the beauty of the Mourne coastline. My Commencement matter is really about interconnectivity.

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Deputy Peter Burke)

I thank Senator McGahon for raising the very important issue of the Carlingford Lough ferry. He has outlined the ferry's value and importance to the local community. I was delighted to be in Omeath, County Louth, with the Senator last year to mark the beginning of an €11 million investment by Irish Water to improve the water quality in Carlingford Lough. This huge investment is very important for this key infrastructure for Border communities.

Transport links, such as the Carlingford Lough ferry, are key enablers for the sustainable growth of domestic and cross-Border tourism in Ireland. It should be noted at the outset that while ferry companies and all forms of transport are critically important for cross-Border tourism, transport services extend beyond that into the tourism sector. Responsibility for transport services falls with the Minister for Transport, Deputy Eamon Ryan.

The island of Ireland has a truly wonderful offering for visitors. There are world-class experiences across the entire island from the Wild Atlantic Way to the Causeway Coastal Route, and from the region that comprises Ireland's Ancient East to the walled city of Derry and so much more. Prior to the pandemic, 2019 was one of the best years ever for Irish tourism when we welcomed 11 million international visitors to the island of Ireland. The importance of tourism to the economy on both sides of the Border, and the clear logic in taking a joint approach to promote and develop the sector, led to tourism being one of the key areas chosen for formal North-South co-operation through the structures created by the Good Friday Agreement. That co-operation has been hugely beneficial, with the tourism sector now an exemplar of what can be achieved when we work together on this island with shared purpose and for clear mutual benefit.

There is a great opportunity for tourism potential into the future through further development of cross-Border tourism on this island. There has been extensive engagement between the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media, which has Deputy Catherine Martin as Minister, and the Department of the Taoiseach regarding the shared island funding, with the result that €7.6 million has been allocated for a new all-island tourism brand collaboration and marketing initiative, connecting the Causeway Coastal Route and the Wild Atlantic Way in the north west. This project will be developed and implemented over the next three years and will build on the international reputations of those two magnificent tourist routes. I understand that a project team has been established, including representatives of the tourism agencies on the island who will work together to connect those two internationally recognised brands and achieve longer visitor stays and greater economic benefits in the north west and Northern coastal regions. The development of this project will further enhance North-South co-operation in tourism, which has been hugely beneficial to the industry across the island.

Through Tourism Ireland, we have developed a hugely successful approach to promoting our collective tourism offering to markets all around the world, which sustains and creates jobs in the sector in towns, cities and regions across both jurisdictions on the island. Tourism Ireland promotes the island of Ireland in more than 21 markets overseas as a compelling holiday destination, using the Ireland brand to position the island as strongly as possible against more than 200 other destinations with which Ireland competes. Tourism Ireland promotes the experience brands, including the Wild Atlantic Way, Ireland’s Hidden Heartlands, Ireland’s Ancient East, Dublin and Northern Ireland’s Embrace a Giant Spirit, on a range of platforms, including online, via publicity and through overseas trade platforms.

North-South engagement and collaboration in the area of tourism has added value to the marketing of the island to potential overseas visitors to both jurisdictions. Significant achievements over this time include the development of screen tourism through "Game of Thrones", and more recently opportunities arising from the success of "An Cailín Ciúin" and "The Banshees of Inisherin". Screen tourism will be leveraged extensively by Tourism Ireland throughout 2023.

Sport-related tourism has emerged as a very significant element in world tourism, with a multimillion euro market and a huge potential for countries that position themselves correctly. High-profile sporting events, such as The Open returning to Royal Portrush in 2025 and the Ryder Cup at Adare Manor in 2027, will provide a unique opportunity to highlight the island of Ireland as a wonderful holiday destination, as well as a top location for sporting events.

Senator John McGahon

As I said at the outset of this debate, and as the Minister of State mentioned, the reason I have raised this matter is because of the value and importance of the Carlingford Lough ferry not just to the local community in north Louth but also to the local community in south County Down. While I accept that the concept of this is transport related, and perhaps is an issue that rests with the Minister for Transport, it must be considered in the overall context of tourism and cross-Border tourism. I say the latter because nobody uses the ferry to commute to work or reduce their journey time. The ferry is primarily used for tourism and is a really good way to connect communities North and South of the Border. The ferry is also a really good way to promote the region. Ultimately, I am concerned about the Carlingford Lough ferry. The Government should avail of all initiatives as much as possible to ensure cross-Border tourism thrives and is very successful.

Deputy Peter Burke

I fully understand where Senator McGahon is coming from and the work that he puts into initiatives such as this. As I said, the Carlingford Lough ferry is of huge value and importance to the region and, indeed, as a key North-South interconnector for tourism.

The shared island unit now has over €500 million to enhance existing projects and for new projects on the Border. That may be a key initiative, through the Department of Transport. I can write to the Minister for Transport, on behalf of the Senator, on foot of this debate to mention that the ferry is a key connector and to highlight that support is needed into the future to ensure it continues to thrive because, as the Senator quite rightly pointed out, the ferry is so important for tourism. I wish to state that tourism has been a huge, unique selling point for the island to unlock so much employment and potential in our communities, which is something we must continue to support and value. Therefore, the Commencement matter is timely in that regard.

Health Services Waiting Lists

Acting Chairperson (Senator Niall Blaney)

Senators Gallagher and Conway are sharing time. I call Senator Gallagher to commence.

Senator Robbie Gallagher

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Peter Burke. My colleague and I wish to highlight the problem of accessing public eye care in Ireland but we have a potential solution. I look forward to the ministerial response in due course.

Unfortunately, many adults and children must wait too long to receive public eye care in this country. Figures for 2022, compiled by the National Treatment Purchase Fund, show that over 33,000 people were on an outpatient eye care waiting list, with over 12,000 of them having waited longer than a year. In fact, HSE figures show that almost 10,000 people had waited for over a year for urgent eye care treatment as of November 2022. Therefore, the current hospital-based system is not fit to meet the current demand, let alone any future need.

Optometrists have told us that there is an opportunity to address the waiting lists for eye care through greater use of their services. Optical practices and optometrists are ready to work in collaboration with the entire eye care sector to deliver a shared care service that will reduce the burden on the HSE, improve clinical outcomes for patients and save sight. Such an initiative would go a long way to tackling the current long waiting times. Optometrists have told us that they believe this can be best achieved by increased availability of primary eye care within communities. There is evidence to support the belief that their plan is working because a pilot scheme is under way, and has been for some time, in Sligo. That scheme has worked very well.

I have raised this issue on a number of occasions. Optometrists appear to have a solution to this problem. They want the HSE and the Department of Health to engage with them. Apparently, there are 300 optometry practices and 700 practitioners throughout the length and breadth of this country. They have the expertise and the equipment. I understand it is 50% less expensive to provide routine examinations, monitoring and care in the community via optometrists than it is to do so within the hospital system. Of course, if optometrists did more of this work, it would alleviate the pressure on hospitals. I look forward to the address by the Minister of State after my colleague Senator Conway has said a few words.

Senator Martin Conway

I fully support and agree with Senator Gallagher. It says a lot about eye care that we both tabled the same Commencement matter this morning.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Peter Burke, to the House. I am aware of his commitment to this particular issue because we have spoken about it on many occasions.

It is a national embarrassment when politicians are taking photographs and putting them up on social media of buses going to the North with taxpayers and citizens going up there to have their cataracts done. We need to eliminate that practice. We need to ensure that it does not happen. Imagine the indignity of people from this country being photographed and being put on social media going to the North to have their eye conditions dealt with. We need to stop that. We need a national strategy for eye care.

We need to eliminate preventable blindness. Would the Minister of State believe that four out of every five people in this country who go blind do so unnecessarily? That means 80% of people who lose their sight in this country do so unnecessarily. They do so because they are not caught in time. They are not screened or operated on in time. The interventions do not happen on a timely basis. We need to eliminate that. It is not good enough.

Imagine if you closed your eyes, you had to keep your eyes closed and you had to walk around with your eyes closed forever, amen. That is what happens with people who lose their sight.

The one thing we can do in this country is ensure that people who have sight keep sight. There are people like me who were born without sight, have limited sight and are grateful for the amount of sight they have. That is unpreventable, but what is preventable is people who have full sight who end up losing their sight or becoming seriously blind or visually impaired because of the system, the HSE and untimely interventions.

I call on the Minister of State to deal with the waiting lists but, more importantly, introduce a national eye care strategy to eliminate preventable blindness.

Deputy Peter Burke

I thank Senators Gallagher and Conway for bringing this important issue to the table and for this Commencement debate this morning, and acknowledge Senator Conway's advocacy from lived experience, which is an important value to bring to the table in a debate like this.

The Minister, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, is unable to attend this morning. He appreciates the considerable contributions of optometrists to public health in Ireland. He recognises that optometrists played a key role in responding to the health needs of the public during the Covid-19 pandemic.

Professionals in this field continue to provide a valuable service to people in Ireland, helping them to maintain good optical health.

The HSE contracts optometrists to provide routine eye examinations and glasses for people with a medical card under the community ophthalmic services scheme. This provides patients with the freedom to choose a practice and time that best suits them. As the Minister has previously stated, the fee paid to optometrists for providing this service will be reviewed this year.

Beyond the services already provided, making greater use of the skills of optometrists is recognised as an important element in improving health care delivery. The Primary Care: Eye Services Review Group Report of 2017 examined this in detail. The report recommends the expansion of the community ophthalmic services scheme to allow for the care of children aged over eight to be managed by their local optometrist. This would occur when visual impairment has been identified in screening.

Transferring care for this group would alleviate pressure on other services, allowing them to focus on more complex or urgent cases. It would also make greater use of the vast experience held by optometrists. Work on this proposal was delayed by the pandemic, but the HSE has resumed the process of exploring how best to implement this recommendation.

A further recommendation of the report is the establishing of primary care eye teams. These multidisciplinary teams include community ophthalmic physicians, orthoptists, specialist nurses, technicians and administrative staff. Adopting an integrated approach will utilise the full skill sets of each team member and provide a comprehensive service to patients. Primary care eye teams have been established in the following community healthcare organisations, CHOs: 6, 7, and 9.

The introduction of these teams in those CHOs has had a substantial effect on waiting lists. In 2023, the HSE will seek to establish primary care eye teams in other CHOs.

The Government recognises that waiting lists must be addressed. As part of our multi-annual approach to this issue, the Minister published the 2023 Waiting List Action Plan at the start of this month. Building on the work done in 2021 and 2022, €443 million has been allocated in budget 2023 to improve waiting times for patients in Ireland. This includes recurrent funding of €123 million for the HSE to implement longer-term reforms such as modernised care pathways and closing capacity gaps, and non-recurrent funding of €240 million for the National Treatment Purchase Fund, NTPF, and the HSE to provide additional public and private activity to clear the backlogs exacerbated during the Covid-19 pandemic. This includes support from the NTPF for the provision of ophthalmic treatments. The Minister expects that the combination of these various initiatives and funding streams will contribute to an improvement in service for patients in need of immediate care.

Senator Robbie Gallagher

I thank the Minister of State for his response.

Members regularly come into the Chamber to highlight problems. We have done that this morning but we are also highlighting a potential solution and I would ask that Government grasp that.

I take some encouragement from the response that the Minister of State has given us in that work is taking place. I implore him to expedite that work so that, as Senator Conway outlined in his contribution, a stitch in time saves nine. It is imperative that we work fast on this particular issue.

Senator Martin Conway

I fully agree with my colleague, Senator Gallagher. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire Stáit for his reply.

We can eliminate preventable blindness. Look what they have done in the north-east region under Professor David Keegan and the initiatives that they have rolled out there.

I very much welcome what the Minister of State has announced but we need to see it actioned. We need to see it scaled up. We need to see our waiting list diminished, reduced and ultimately eliminated.

People deserve to keep the eyesight they have. If we can do that and if we can use the next 18 to 24 months to eliminate the waiting lists, we need to have a contract with ourselves that we never let them get out of hand again.

I thank the Minister of State for his reply, which is encouraging. Hopefully, we will see it scaled-up and actioned.

Deputy Peter Burke

I thank Senators Gallagher and Conway again for raising this important issue. I will, indeed, follow-up with the Minister to liaise with them on the progress on both of the initiatives that have been referenced in my opening statement.

I absolutely understand the importance of sight. It is how you live your everyday life. It is critical in terms of your environment, your surroundings and to have reasonable quality of life.

Both of those are important initiatives in that, as Senator Conway quite rightly pointed out, a stitch in time saves lives. It is important to have these initiatives enacted quickly.

Prevention is the best key right across our healthcare system. When issues are not treated, which is one of the challenges from Covid-19 in delayed healthcare, they get inevitably worse and the system has to expend huge resources trying to resolve difficult healthcare issues.

I thank Senators Conway and Gallagher for bringing this important debate. I will revert to the Minister for Health to keep in contact with the Senators about both initiatives.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 10.18 a.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 10.35 a.m.

Sitting suspended at 10.18 a.m. and resumed at 10.35 a.m.