The Order of Business is No.1, motion regarding the arrangements of the address to Seanad Éireann by the president of the GAA, Mr. Larry McCarthy, on 26 April 2023, to be taken on conclusion of the Order of Business, without debate; No. 2., the Regulation of Lobbying (Amendment) Bill 2022 – Second Stage, to be taken at 11.45 a.m., with the opening contribution of the Minister not to exceed ten minutes, those of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed four minutes, time can be shared, and the Minister to be given no less than ten minutes to reply to the debate; and No. 3, Private Members' business, the Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2023 – Second Stage, to be taken on conclusion of No. 2, with the time allocated to this debate not to exceed two hours, provided that the debate shall adjourn at 2.30 p.m., if not previously concluded.
An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business
I call on an Seanadóir Paddy Burke.
The Cathaoirleach has taken me a bit by surprise. I congratulate everybody on last week's celebration of the visit of President Biden to Ireland and particularly to Ballina in my home county of Mayo. The Department of Foreign Affairs and the local authority did a wonderful job in respect of that visit.
However, I will raise an issue with regard to the Passport Office. A number of weeks ago, a client approached me. He had booked a trip from Boston in the US to Ireland for the Easter break. Two nights before the flight, his house was broken into and his passport stolen, so he could not travel. He went to the consulate in Boston and was told that no emergency passport could be issued except where someone had died or so on and that he did not qualify. This is an Irish taxpayer. He pays his taxes here in Ireland. He is working in Boston but he also has interests in Ireland. He could not get a passport. He had to apply for one here in Ireland. He sent on photographs taken by a reputable outfit that provides photographs for passports in America but they failed the Irish test and so he had to send on another set. There were also queries over these. The result is that his passport application will not be processed until 5 May. This is a man, an Irish taxpayer, who now has no valid identification while working in the United States. What is the function of all of the consulates we have around the world? We have several consulates in America. What is their function if they cannot look after our citizens? As I have said, this man is an Irish taxpayer and pays his taxes here in Ireland. His family lives here in Ireland and yet this is the way he is being treated by the Department of Foreign Affairs. It is time that the consulates process emergency passports as they did before Covid struck the world. This should be dealt with as a priority and I hope the Deputy Leader will bring it to the attention of the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs. The way this man has been treated is despicable. He will now not get a passport until May, when he wanted to be here with his family for Easter. He had a police report showing that his house was broken into and his passport stolen but the Irish authorities could not do anything for him and left him hanging out to dry. I hope the Deputy Leader will seek a solution to this issue.
As the Deputy Leader may recall, I raised the issue of the EU Commission's case against Hungary's anti-LGBT law in the House previously and called on Ireland to join the lawsuit in solidarity. I am really pleased that, under the stewardship of An Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin, Ireland has formally supported this particular case. It shows once again that we here in Ireland stand resolute in our commitment to an inclusive society and it also shows our party's commitment to equality for all persons. I particularly note the excellent and defiant speech of Luxembourg's Prime Minister, Xavier Bettel, who denounced Viktor Orbán and Hungary's anti-LGBT law before the EU Parliament yesterday. It was an excellent contribution, no less than the Cathaoirleach's own last Thursday. Bettel is one of just two openly gay leaders of a European Union country. I really commend him on his bravery in using his platform to stand up for the basic ideals that we all subscribe to as members of the EU.
I want to give a shout-out to Stand Up For Racing, which was set up by Sally Ann Grassick, Cathy Grassick and Kevin Blake. Many of us saw the images from the Grand National at the weekend. It was awful to see a horse having to be put down but a group called Animal Rising delayed the start of the Grand National in Aintree after attempting to get onto the track to obstruct the race. These protestors are radicals who want to ban racing. Their proposal to end racing would essentially result in the extinction of the thoroughbred. Ireland, and especially my county of Kildare, has a really strong historical and current link to racing. Irish thoroughbred trainers, jockeys and stable staff are sought all over the world. Both Kildare and Tipperary are known as the best in the world with regard to breeding. It is really important that we reaffirm our commitment to the horse racing industry. Welfare standards within horse racing are extremely strong in Ireland and the sector is constantly working on maintaining and strengthening these standards. I am certainly very proud of the success of the thoroughbred industry. It is important that we join Sally Ann Grassick, Cathy Grassick and Kevin Blake in standing up for racing because these debates are likely to enter into media discussions here.
The last matter I will raise relates to the Derelict Sites Act. In my own town of Newbridge, I have been engaging with residents in respect of a derelict building called Rooske Lodge, which is in very close proximity to the train station. There was a lot of antisocial behaviour there. It has been set on fire and so on. We managed to get it put onto the derelict sites register last November and within a month there was a flurry of activity on the part of the owners. Sadly, that flurry of activity has now stopped. We all know they are going to be fined 7% but we need quicker action in addition to financial penalties.
Through the Chair, I ask the Deputy Leader to consider setting aside some time in the House to discuss Covid, the National Public Health Emergency Team, NPHET, the Government's response and whether there are already lessons to be learned. I understand that an inquiry into all of these matters is in progress. Normally, I would say that we should await the outcome of the inquiry but, having seen what I saw yesterday on the screen, in the responses by the Secretary General, Mr. Robert Watt, to questions put to him, I have no confidence at all in any re-examination of the Department's role in the matter in which it has any part whatsoever. I do not want to be unfair to the man but I detected a tone of breathtaking impunity and arrogance. He was politely questioned by members of the committee and, to put it mildly, he was dismissive and evasive. He fell well below the standards we expect of our public service in respect of accountability to these Houses for very important matters. I hear his attendance was procured by a compellability decision. It is scandalous in itself that somebody with a very substantial salary would resist being called before a committee of these Houses to account for his stewardship of his own Department. It is bad enough that an order was required for him to be brought before that committee.
On a second, related topic, I am not of the view that everything NPHET did was necessary or right. I was interested to see some people who were acquainted with what happened in NPHET saying there was an atmosphere there of, I will not use the term "intimidation", but they felt there was one voice and a strong voice coming from the centre and that dissent was not tolerated. I think of a particular doctor in Tallaght who had to resign his office in the HSE because he queried the direction of Government policy. It is about time that these Houses asserted their authority and that we have some discussion in this Chamber, before it is too late and a general election takes place, as to whether what happened in Ireland was appropriate or excessive. I am not taking away from the sacrifices HSE staff made in fighting Covid; I salute them. However, the economy suffered a massive hit and there was not adequate protection of the economic interests, the social interests and the human psychological interests of citizens at that time. I put on record I do not accept the proposition the Department of Health, especially after yesterday, should have anything to do with an inquiry into what was done.
I begin by touching on that last subject, because I watched back proceedings yesterday evening from my hotel and I am sure I am not the only person who was genuinely dumbstruck at the unbridled arrogance on display there. It was just appalling and was meted out to people from all parties at the meeting. It was totally unacceptable. Senator McDowell makes a valid point, namely, we at times forget it is governments, which are elected by the people, that have the power.
Some chance.
Senator Craughwell makes a fair point as well. Miriam Lord's description of said civil servant as "the prince of permanent government" struck a bell. It is not acceptable for any civil servant to come in and react in that way. We have a right to ask questions and receive answers, and that did not happen yesterday.
The main issue I raise relates to a group of men called the Murphy 4. These four workers were based in Limerick at the Aughinish plant. They worked for Murphy International, a very well-known construction company that gained millions of taxpayers' money from public contracts in Ireland and in Britain, where its headquarters are. These men were sacked in a union-busting exercise. They had over 50 years of collective service at the plants. They are mechanical engineers, skilled men, and ordinarily very sought after, but strangely enough they have not been able to find work since. We know there is an established practice of blacklisting in the construction industry. I believe it is the reason these men, who have an impeccable work record, have been unable to find work since they were dismissed.
Hear, hear.
They were dismissed because they asked for negotiation of their being underpaid by €4.50 an hour in relation to the sectoral employment order, SEO, specifying the legal rates that should apply for skilled jobs such as those at the plant and across Ireland. Their boss came in after half an hour and simply told them they were all suspended. The management suspended all the workers and emailed nine of them to bring them back, but these four were dismissed. They were dismissed because, in the previous dispute over the same issue seven years before, they stood up for their rights as workers and were threatened with sacking. In the minutes of the meeting, the four were actually told they did not show enough remorse for asking for a negotiation. This is a company that receives millions in taxpayers' money from our Government. Its behaviour brings home the issue of what we are doing about procurement. Why are we giving business to companies that treat workers with such disdain, have no respect for trade unions and no respect for workers' rights? This is what our Government is doing and what the British Government is doing. We have no control over the latter but we must address this matter.
We must also address the appalling unfair dismissal legislation, which is no use to these workers, because they will be waiting years to get their case heard and then they will be limited to a maximum of two years, or less if they secure a job elsewhere. This company took a calculated decision to victimise these workers to send a message to the rest that if they join a trade union and stand up for their rights, they will not get work in the company. Something needs to be done. I call for an urgent debate on workers' rights. These are decent working men. One of them broke down yesterday when he was making his presentation, because he has not had any income. He was not even able to sign on, because the Government made it clear he was sacked. That is what is happening in our country.
Well said.
I raise the case of Vladimir Kara-Murza. He is a politician and journalist based in Russia and an opponent of Vladimir Putin. He has now been jailed for 25 years simply for speaking out against Putin's regime, pointing out the folly of his war and identifying what is going on in Russia. We are very fortunate in this country. We may have plenty of reasons to disagree with Government, but we have the right to protest and to free speech. We know we can do it without risk of being placed in prison. There are many people in Russia who are opposed to Putin's regime, and Vladimir Kara-Murza, who has a young family, has been imprisoned for 25 years. I ask the Deputy Leader to raise this with the Minister for Foreign Affairs on our behalf, as is being done in democracies around the world, and to express to the Minister our solidarity with Mr. Kara-Murza.
I was not here during the Order of Business yesterday, but I was glad Senator Clonan, on behalf of the Independent Group, disassociated the other members of the group from Senator Keogan's latest xenophobic outburst. It is not acceptable that we see this level of racism in the House anymore. I can only say that if a member of my party tweeted like Senator Keogan did, he or she would lose the whip, action would be taken against him or her and he or she would lose speaking rights, because my party certainly does not tolerate xenophobia or racism.
I remind the House the Senator is not here to defend herself. I accept Senator Byrne's intent to make a political charge, but in defence of Senator Keogan's right as a Member, she is not here to defend herself.
I appreciate that, but I am tired of us not standing up to racism and xenophobia and her comments were totally unacceptable. I made the point that in my party, and I am quite certain in the Deputy Leader's party or any other party, action would be taken against a member for that.
I thank the Senator.
The Independent Group members now need to take action against Senator Keogan.
I thank the Senator.
In every other group the whip would be withdrawn and speaking rights restricted.
The Senator's points are well made.
Senator Byrne should get down off the horse.
Is Senator Craughwell going to condone Senator Keogan's-----
Senator Byrne, your time is up.
-----continued xenophobia and stand with her or stand with the rest of us?
Go raibh maith agat. Senator Carrigy is next.
I have a couple of issues to raise. The first is an anomaly in the Forestry Act 2014. We have seen the issues with trying to get licences in forestry and the backlog of felling licences yet to be issued. The anomaly in the Act means if there is an area of forestry in an urban area, which you would think would be protected to maintain green areas within our urban areas, a licence is not needed at all. That issue has arisen in an area in Athlone, where an application for planning was refused by the council based on the fact there was forestry there, yet in recent weeks the owners came in with bulldozers and clear-felled the entire 2-acre site because it is within the old urban line of the town, which was the old Athlone urban district. A felling licence is not needed in such cases and a person can go in and bulldoze the whole thing and nothing can be done about it. That needs to be changed.
During Covid, a number of us here, including Senator Byrne, who has just left, fought for funding for the musical societies to ensure we had pantos in the wintertime. I was at the St Mel's Musical Society production of "Footloose" last week. The society had a packed-out audience for the eight shows. I am conscious of the significant amount of work the society and others like it must put into fundraising just to be able to put on that show, never mind the hundreds of hours of voluntary time that go into it to give us entertainment.
I would love to see a scheme implemented, similar to the funding that is given to the Irish Shows Association for agricultural shows, whereby musical societies would register with the Association of Irish Musical Societies, AIMS, and funding would be allocated to them on a yearly basis, through the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media, to put on the shows that give us so much entertainment.
With respect to the tweet from Senator Keogan, it is clear that Senator Malcolm Byrne does not understand the meaning of the term "technical group". Senator Keogan does not speak for me or for any of my colleagues. We speak independently of one another, we have our own views and our own minds. I do not subscribe to the tweet that was put out by Senator Keogan. Mr. Drew Harris, one of the people mentioned in it, is an Irish man in every sense of the word.
Senator McDowell referred to Robert Watt's appearance before the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach yesterday. An extremely important issue has emerged from the evidence he gave. He spoke about his email having been hacked and that an email was not delivered as a result of the hack. I have checked with experts this morning who told me that if one hits the send button on an email, irrespective of whether it has been hacked or not, the email will be delivered. That is the truth of it. The excuse of systems being hacked has been used in many different instances in this House in relation to failures. I am writing to the Garda Commissioner today, and I ask the Deputy Leader to do likewise, to ask that the National Cyber Security Centre, NCSC, immediately investigate the claim made by Mr. Watt. If his system was not hacked, then he lied to a committee of this House and that is the most serious charge that can be brought against a public servant.
I ask the Senator to be careful with his use of language.
Absolutely and I have not said he lied. I said that if it is shown that the system was not hacked, then he can be accused of lying. Time and again Secretaries General have been called before Oireachtas committees. In the case of the Joint Committee on Transport, of which I am a member, the Secretary General of the Department of Transport has refused to come before the committee. It is time these people were brought to heel. They are answerable to this House and it is time we made them bloody well answerable. I will be proposing an amendment to the Ministers and Secretaries Act in that regard.
Today I raise the issue of July provision. I am a member of the Joint Committee on Autism which is chaired by my colleague, Senator Carrigy. Last July that committee issued a report which made a number of recommendations relating to July provision. We are getting a lot of feedback from parents who are telling us that many schools still do not have their July provision in place for this year and parents do not know what they are doing. In fairness, the Department has brought lots of schools into the programme and provided a massive amount of funding but there still seems to be a problem. The incentives for teachers to sign up in order to get the schemes in place do not seem to be working and teachers do not seem to be getting involved en masse. I am not saying that the Department is not bending over backwards but the carrot seems to be missing that would enable the summer programmes to be set up and this makes it so difficult for families.
Eight weeks off school for a child with additional needs places a huge burden on parents and families. It is also a huge burden for the child who is completely discombobulated because his or her normal routine is not in place. We might need to look again at the July provision programme going forward. We cannot continue to have this massive gap in the education of children who have severe additional needs for eight weeks every year. The whole system of summer holidays is archaic for parents who are working. It falls on women to juggle everything during the summer, not just for children with additional needs but also for neurotypical children. I know that teachers do not like this idea but one teacher told me that teachers are on holidays for more days than they work. I am not going against teachers; they do a great job, but let us pay them more and they will work. As someone said previously in relation to childcare, education for working families is childcare. Schools supervise our children during the day, when half of the population, the women of Ireland, have to go out to work. If we do not have decent childcare, even at primary school level, we cannot do our jobs properly and we cannot contribute.
I am highlighting the issue of July provision now in the hope that things will start moving for families.
My contribution relates to the appearance by Mr. Watt at the Oireachtas committee and the former Attorney General, Senator McDowell, might have a view on this. If Mr. Watt's computer was hacked, as he alleged, then there could be a data protection issue. Did Mr. Watt report this to the Data Protection Commissioner, DPC? He would have a lot of data on his computer and would be obliged to inform the DPC that his emails were hacked. His computer would have a lot of information on it, including a lot of confidential documents and personal information on a lot of people. The question he has to answer, which could lead us elsewhere, is whether he informed the DPC. It is not the role of this House to ascertain that. It is for the Oireachtas committee and the Minister for Health to determine if his email account and his laptop were hacked because there would be a lot of excel spreadsheets and a lot of very personal documents therein. Mr. Watt has a lot more questions to answer. Did he follow the correct procedures in relation to protecting people's data, now that he alleges his laptop was hacked?
The Deputy Leader and other Members of this House know that over the past two years, I have constantly raised the case of Robert Pether. Mr. Pether is an Australian citizen, married to an Irish citizen whose children are all Irish citizens. He has been locked up in an Iraqi jail following a most spurious trial in an Iraqi court and is wasting away. I want to acknowledge the efforts of the former Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Coveney, and the current Minister and Tánaiste, Deputy Micheál Martin, as well as those of the Deputy Leader of the Seanad, Senator Doherty. I have chatted with Senator Doherty about this from time to time. She has done so much and has tried to help as much as possible. Basically, the Pether family came back to Ireland and settled in Elphin in County Roscommon. As I said, there was a very spurious court case in Iraq and this brilliant engineer, Robert Pether, and his Egyptian colleague, became the meat in the sandwich and were blamed for a €12 million deficit on the central bank building in Iraq. If colleagues want to know about the talent of this man and his colleague, they should Google the central bank building in Iraq and look at the design of it, which is just unbelievable. Mr. Pether is a very talented man but that is not where I am coming from today. I have watched a wife and children fall into despair over a loving husband and father who is locked away with no hope of release. I know that it is a difficult situation for senior Irish politicians because Mr. Pether is an Australian citizen. He had not yet become an Irish citizen but was in the process of becoming one. His wife's people are from Dublin and she is an Irish citizen, as are the children. We have been told that there is not much Irish politicians can do at the moment but they are doing their best. We are going to have an Iraqi Embassy here. It might then be a lot easier to deal with this case but this is really urgent.
I have said previously that I would like a debate on this. Maybe it is not usual to have a debate on such issues but we are talking about a family being completely destroyed here. We saw what happened to the O'Halloran's. This case is quite similar, if not worse, given the way in which Mr. Pether is locked up. We need to recognise that even if Mr. Pether is not an Irish citizen, his wife and children are and we must redouble our efforts on their behalf. I am not going to push Senator Doherty to give a direct answer on this today but would ask her to consider the possibility of a debate. I also ask the Irish media to take this matter up again, not for my sake but for the sake of this poor woman and her children. It is a desperate situation.
I do not know what to say to Senator Murphy, other than to commend him on continuously raising Robert's case here. As Senator Murphy knows, I met with the Australian ambassador to see how somebody as far removed as me could attempt to make the issue as urgent for others as it is for his family.
You get the standard answers that everything that can be done is being done. The Senator got exactly the same answer from the current Minister for Foreign Affairs as I got from the previous Minister, who held that portfolio over the previous three years. Senator Murphy is correct about this. As for Robert's failing health and how he is being detained illegally, while it is fine if you want to charge someone and there is a case for doing so, you get on with it and the person is found guilty or not but in his case, he has been illegally detained for such a long time with no prospect of any court case. I do not think we are doing enough in this regard. I will ask for a debate to be held on it but I am not sure anybody will see this as being the correct forum. I commend the Senator on bringing this matter up again, though, and if anyone else is unaware of Robert's case, he or she can follow his wife on Twitter. It is harrowing to read about the experiences his family have gone through in recent years, especially the two small children. We have seen them grow up, especially his youngest daughter. She was only a very young child at the start of this ordeal and now she is probably far more advanced in experiences than she should be. I again thank Senator Murphy for raising this issue.
Several colleagues brought up the issue of the visit of the illustrious Secretary General of the Department of Health to the Oireachtas joint committee yesterday. The one thing I was struck by, and I will acquiesce in the requests made today, was the clearly obvious disdain he has for politicians. This is quite unusual, given the work he has been doing for the last several years and will continue to do as head of the Department of Health. More questions, though, have definitely arisen from yesterday's interventions and the closing down of the topic in question.
Senator Ardagh raised the issue of the July provision. Despite the enormous amount of work being done by the Joint Committee on Autism, chaired by Senator Carrigy over the last year, we are still not attracting teachers in the numbers we need to provide these services to the children requiring them for those eight weeks during the summer. We need some out-of-the-box thinking in this regard. I wish the Senator well and I will certainly raise this matter with the Minister and keep this on the agenda. July is not that far away. I thank the Senator for bringing up this issue.
Senator Craughwell reaffirmed what Senator Clonan said yesterday about the technical group and about disassociating themselves from Senator Keogan's tweet. He also made reference to the email hack and that he will ask the Garda to investigate this matter.
Senator Carrigy spoke about the cracking idea that we should have multi-annual funding for our musical societies. In the towns and villages where people get their entertainment from the local amateur talent we have, they need to strive hard to get the funding together to be able to put on these shows. Even though the Senator spoke about having had eight nights of sold-out shows, that will not raise enough money to finance putting the shows on in the first place. A little bit of help, therefore, would go a long way and I will bring this matter to the attention of the Minister. I thank the Senator for highlighting this matter.
Senator Malcolm Byrne spoke about a gentleman called Vladimir Kara-Murza. I am happy to be corrected if I have got his name wrong. He is a journalist who has been jailed for 25 years in Russia just for protesting against the Government there. It is outrageous. The Senator has asked that I bring this issue to the Minister's attention via a letter and to seek support in expressing our abhorrence of the regime in that country and its treatment of Mr. Kara-Murza.
Senator Gavan brought a disturbing case to our attention this morning. I was certainly not aware of it beforehand, so I thank the Senator for bringing it to our notice. It is unacceptable that we have four professionals blacklisted in the construction sector by a company when we are crying out for people to work in that industry. We should take some time to examine this subject and see how we can intervene and help. I will certainly bring this case to the attention of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment to seek his assistance.
Senator McDowell sought a debate regarding the pandemic review group. He was absolutely right to do so and I will try to get some semblance of a timescale in this regard. I do not think that one debate of 90 minutes would be sufficient for the input we would all have to contribute. I am not sure who is on the committee looking after the review group to reflect on and hopefully learn some lessons from what we experienced during the pandemic. I hope to God we never have another pandemic during my life so we do not have to be cognisant of them too soon. It is timely, though, that we should have our contributions recorded concerning what we have learned in this regard and how we feel things could have been done better. It would also be important to recognise some of the things that were done well by the people who did them. I will try to arrange that as quickly as we can.
Senator O'Loughlin spoke about several topics. These included Ireland supporting, through the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin, a court case taken against Hungary's anti-LGBTQ+ law. This is very welcome. The Senator also spoke about a new organisation called Stand Up for Racing, which has been established by three people, namely, Sally Ann Grassick, Cathy Grassick and Kevin Blake, and to wish them well. Senator O'Loughlin also outlined some anomalies in the context of the derelict sites register under the Derelict Sites Act 1990 and sought more movement in this regard. I will bring this issue to the attention of the Department.
Senator Burke opened the Order of Business by giving us a bizarre tale of consuls in parts of the world where we do not have embassies to help Irish people and a situation where this system failed a particular gentleman. I will bring this engagement to the attention of the Minister for Foreign Affairs to see if we can get this date of 5 May 2023 brought forward a little and get the man concerned home to see his family as fast as we can.