Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 4 May 2023

Vol. 293 No. 12

Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters

Early Childhood Care and Education

Senator Emer Currie

I wish to focus on childcare supply in Dublin West. I will outline the reasons we need a review of section 28 of the Planning and Development Act and the ministerial guidelines from 2001, a review of the interaction between county councils and county childcare committees and radical change from the loose planning guidelines we have to deliver childcare supply in order to plan, build and open childcare facilities, especially community childcare facilities, in local communities.

Last year, I went through Fingal County Council planning permissions for the five years previous to quarter 3 of 2022. Of the 80 applications granted, 42 were amendments to existing childcare facilities, involving an increase in numbers, an extension or changes to time, while 38 were new applications. When I looked into the developments in Dublin 15 that would fall under the section 28 guidelines, I found very few that had been progressed. I found one that is under construction at Balroy House on Carpenterstown Road, another in St. Joseph's, Clonsilla, which has not been built and is now part of phase 2, and a third in the Hansfield strategic development zone. This year, I discovered there are two more. There is one for a childcare facility at Barnhill, Dublin 15, where 1,200 units were recently approved, and there has been planning approval for a childcare facility in the Blanchardstown shopping centre. As regards the childcare facilities that have been opened under what I consider the section 28 guidelines, however, I discovered only one in the past ten years, as well as another that was built but not opened for five years. There are also two in estates that have been built but not opened and in respect of which the developers have applied to change the use.

This tells me that section 28 is not working in the way it was designed to operate. The facilities are not being built. My colleague, Senator Seery Kearney, has focused on this issue in terms of the exemptions to putting them in planning but I have found that even when they are built, they are not being built as suitable premises and they are not being opened. We need a radical review of section 28 and how the guidelines are working in communities.

Minister of State at the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (Deputy Joe O'Brien)

I thank the Senator for raising the issue. The availability of high-quality early learning and childcare is a key Government priority. Early learning and childcare capacity is monitored by the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth on an ongoing basis, with a particular focus on responding to the unmet early learning and childcare needs of families. The annual data captured by Pobal on behalf of the Department through the early years sector profile survey are an important data source that allow us to monitor supply and demand. In addition to the survey data, the Department relies on data from the register of services held by Tusla, as well as data provided by services as part of their application for core funding, and has conducted several surveys with parents. Since 2020, five parent surveys have been undertaken by Ipsos MRBI on behalf of the Department. Data from the most recent early years sector profile indicated that the vacancy rates among services in Dublin West was 13%, which is lower than the average vacancy rates nationally. These data do not take account of increases in capacity since the introduction of core funding.

A series of steps is being undertaken to address issues of undersupply. The network of 30 city and county childcare committees across the country is in a position to match children and families with services operating with vacant places. Moreover, these committees engage proactively with services to explore possibilities for expansion among services, particularly where there is unmet need. Under the national action plan for childminding and following the extension of regulations to childminders, there is a commitment to open access to the national childcare scheme to parents who use childminders. Some €70 million has been allocated to the Department through the revised national development plan, with the majority of this funding earmarked for new places.

The Department, in partnership with the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government, is in the process of updating the 2001 planning guidelines for local authorities on early learning and childcare settings. As part of this work, the Department has been included in the updated list of prescribed bodies that need to be notified on certain planning matters, including the formulation of county development plans and local area plans. In addition, core funding introduced in September 2022 has already proven to be effective in expanding capacity, particularly in areas of undersupply, with initial analysis showing that there has been a significant growth in capacity, including for cohorts such as babies and toddlers, and in areas where there has been significant pressure on places, including Dublin West. Additional funding secured in budget 2023 for year 2 of core funding provides further opportunity to invest in capacity growth.

Parents experiencing difficulty with early learning and childcare needs should contact their local city and county childcare committee for assistance. Contact details can be found on myccc.ie.

Senator Emer Currie

Parents will tell you again and again that supply is a major issue across Dublin 15. The Minister of State knows that. I have reached out to some of the childcare committees to see what is happening and what interaction there is. My feedback from that is that it is not consistent. Some committees are working closer with planning officials than others. If we are to address undersupply, we need those structures to be working. I do not think they are working in the way that they need to in order to deliver. We are using section 28 facilities to help with supply but, as Senator Seery Kearney and I have shown, there are exemptions. I am saying that when they are built, they are not being opened. We have an opportunity here. There are section 28 facilities when we should be planning for childcare facilities. Not only that, but they need to be in appropriate buildings. They need to be planned that way as appropriate buildings.

As is the case with Part V properties, we have an opportunity to step in, take ownership of these facilities, open them up as community childcare centres and deliver for people. We need to look at a review of the community childcare committees and how they interact with county development plans. We need a review of section 28 facilities to actually deliver in people's communities. We need to take that deliberate and essential step into actually purchasing the social and community childcare infrastructure in people's communities so that we deliver not just the subsidies, which are great, but the places. That is what people really need now as well as subsidies.

Deputy Joe O'Brien

The Government, the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, and I understand the challenges faced by parents in Fingal county. There is a clear need. It is one of the counties with the lowest vacancies rates in the country. I checked this before I came in. Interestingly and usefully, a data collection exercise on the early years sector will start tomorrow. Pobal will lead that. It will give us a more up-to-date sense of what is happening on the ground. There are clearly still issues in west Dublin and beyond. The updated data we will gather will inform the design of the €45 million building blocks capacity grant for 2024 to 2025. This is a practical measure that will facilitate increased physical space, which is a limitation for many bodies. I will bring the section 28 issue that the Senator raised directly back to the Minister. She raised various issues. We will look forward to the engagement between local authorities and the formulation of county development plans and local area plans.

School Accommodation

Senator Maria Byrne

I welcome the Minister of State. I am asking for an update on the application made by Catherine McAuley School on Ashbourne Avenue in Limerick. I was honoured when the Minister of State came to visit the school with me a couple of months ago to learn about its ethos and see what is going on in the school. It was a great day of celebration when we were there. The school put on part of its show about the story of Joseph and his multicoloured dream coat. Fantastic work is going on there.

The school was opened by the Sisters of Mercy in 1961, with 12 students present. It now has almost 300 students in primary and secondary education. It certainly meets the needs of students with learning difficulties. The happy and purposeful atmosphere we saw on the day was to be commended. I know its application has been in the system for a while. As the Minister of State saw on her visit, it purchased some prefabs at a low price during the Covid pandemic, with one for its autism room. Every inch of space in the school is being used. The school needs to progress. There is a waiting list for people to get in and the standard is very high. I ask for an update on the application.

Minister of State at the Department of Education (Deputy Josepha Madigan)

I thank the Senator for raising this matter. It gives me the opportunity to outline what we are doing regarding special education in general. I commend the Catherine McAuley School on all the work it is doing. It has a wonderful principal and staff. I visited on 10 February last. The school has a lovely, warm atmosphere. I could see how committed and dedicated all the staff are to looking after the children with additional needs. As the Senator indicated, there are 259 pupils in the school at present. I know there is a waiting list. It wants to be in a position to be able to expand in the future. It is important to say that when the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, sanctions a special class in any school, which, I know, is separate from a special school, it can apply for capital funding to reconfigure any existing spaces within the school building to accommodate the class or indeed to construct additional accommodation under the additional school accommodation, ASA, scheme.

In recognising some of the difficulties experienced by parents in securing appropriate school placements, since 2020, the Department and the NCSE have worked closely on a more streamlined and joined-up approach in respect of the planning process, which has ensured a targeted approach to meet demand for special needs placements ahead of each new school year. This intensive intervention has resulted in the establishment of seven new special schools over the past three years, including new special schools in Cork and Dublin, which are due to open for the 2023-24 school year. Expanded capacity at 11 special schools is also planned for September.

In this context, the NCSE, through its special educational needs organisers, SENOs, is identifying areas of priority in the Limerick area. My Department is liaising with the NCSE on this matter and the long-term needs of Catherine McAuley School. I note that the school submitted an ASA application in November 2022 requesting retrospective funding for the purchase of two modular units which the Senator spoke of. Officials in my Department are liaising with the SENO at the school on the long-term needs that exist there. Once that information is received, the Department will be in a position to fully assess the accommodation needs of the school. There are about 1,300 school building projects ongoing throughout the country. Much good work is being done. All key stakeholders are actively working to ensure that any children who do not have a place for next year are provided with a suitable placement. That is very important and the NCSE is leading the work in that regard.

I assure the Senator that the Department will continue to support the NCSE and schools through the provision of the necessary funding and capital investment to ensure that all children are successful in accessing education. I also wish to assure the Senator that the application for capital funding for Catherine McAuley School is being assessed in consultation with the NCSE. Once that has been assessed adequately, the school authorities will be notified of a decision directly.

Senator Maria Byrne

I thank the Minister of State for her response. It is good to know that it is progressing through the system and that the NCSE is liaising. Does the Minister of State have a timeframe for when the report will be coming back? Maybe she cannot give that information today but she might be able to come back to me with a timeframe, if possible. I visit the school regularly and see the standard of what goes on there and how happy the students are. The staff are fantastic. There is great support from parents and the surrounding community too.

There is huge community involvement there as well as the staff of the school. That is a sign of a very well-run school. I pay tribute to the principal, Greg Browne, and the staff there for all they are doing for the students with special needs because they are supporting students in Limerick, Clare and Tipperary.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I echo the Senator's comments about Greg Browne and all the staff of the Catherine McAuley School and the incredible work they do. The school mainly provides education to pupils with a mild or borderline general learning disability and not just at primary level but all the way up to post-primary. This retrospective request relates to modular units already in existence. The Department is assessing the application with the NCSE. The Senator has brought it to my attention and the Department and the NCSE will be aware of it. Perhaps it can concentrate minds to get an early response. As I mentioned, we have opened seven new special schools over the last three years and we have a budget of €2.6 billion for special education. It is important we try to increase capacity in special schools and that they have sufficient capacity to cater for children adequately. I will revert to the Senator in due course on that.

Third Level Education

Senator Malcolm Byrne

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. She will be aware the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science was not created to be just an administrative Department for universities and places of further and higher education, but rather to prepare Ireland for the technological revolution we are experiencing. A student who is due to sit his or her leaving certificate next month is more than likely to be in the world of work until the year 2070. If we reflect on the 1970s, we can see how rapidly technology has changed since then and we can also consider the exponential change we are going to see over the next four or five decades, especially in artificial intelligence, the data economy and applications. There is much positive potential in this area. The Government's own strategy, AI - Here for Good, outlines some of these. It sets out that the Government's ambition is to be an international leader in using AI to benefit our society and economy. It will be transformative in healthcare, transport and education and training, but it will be hugely disruptive as well. One of the big changes with this technology and automation is it will often hit some of the higher paid professions more than automation hit other functions in the past.

In recent months, we have seen the rise of ChatGPT and other AI language models. These are being used within our education system in particular. It is upending thoughts about how we assess students and educators have to respond. It is important we are proactive in our response. My question relates to the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, but it is equally relevant to the Minister of State's Department. It is not good enough for us to be negative, say "woe is us" and step back or to ban the use of ChatGPT, as some universities have tried to do, though none in this country. We cannot adopt a wait-and-see approach and we have to be proactive. Quality and Qualifications Ireland, QQI, is doing some good work in this area but we need consistency across our further and higher education systems and our education and training systems generally. We need clearer rules on how institutions, such as universities and others, allow the use of ChatGPT. Students must have an understanding of how AI and chatbots work and when they can and cannot use them. That must be very much based on an ethical framework. It is essential to the debate we must have across our educational system that we are proactive and do not simply wait for the technology to overtake us. This is coming. It is going to happen at a faster rate than we ever imagined and we have to be prepared. That is why it is important we have a public debate involving further and higher education providers, the education family generally, students and users and also those who are designing some of these new AI programmes and platforms. There is no doubt AI will be one of the most transformative technologies in education and wider society over the next decade.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I thank the Senator. I am giving this response on behalf of the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Harris, but there are some comments that will also be relevant to the Department of Education and I can certainly raise this issue with it today.

In recent months, there has been a significant focus on the threat AI may pose to academic integrity. ChatGPT is an artificial intelligence chatbot launched in November 2022 and is currently one of the most well-known large language models in the public domain. As the Senator mentioned, there are others. These models can produce original pieces of text that may not be recognised by plagiarism detection tools and this creates the potential to facilitate undetectable academic cheating. The challenge for educators and learners is to discover how artificial intelligence can be used in ways that optimise teaching and learning opportunities, create space for innovative thinking and promote the potential for high-level achievement on the part of learners. If action is not taken, these potentially useful algorithms could be used to circumnavigate the education and qualifications system and lead to the awarding of qualifications to students who have not earned them.

QQI is the State agency under the remit of the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science that is responsible for promoting the quality, integrity and reputation of Ireland’s further and higher education and training system. I understand QQI has been following recent developments in artificial intelligence tools, including ChatGPT, and how these tools are being used within the education and training system, both in Ireland and abroad. In February, QQI issued a guidance note on artificial intelligence to a wide range of education stakeholders, and a number of education and training providers have now initiated reviews of their policies on assessment and academic integrity. In March, QQI hosted an artificial intelligence webinar week that featured a range of topics and perspectives from international and national experts on the opportunities and challenges posed by artificial intelligence in higher education. As artificial intelligence can be used as an educational tool, students will need to understand how to use AI technology legitimately. It is important education providers clearly communicate to their students the circumstances under which use of artificial intelligence tools will be considered a threat to academic integrity. Students outsourcing their work to an AI system is just as problematic as students outsourcing their work to a contract cheating service. Whatever form of cheating is used, be it essay mills, AI or other means, it must be combated and providers must adapt.

In September 2021, my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Harris, launched new national principles and guidelines for academic integrity. QQI is now initiating work, in consultation with education providers, to revise and adapt these guidelines so they can be applicable across the higher and further education and training sectors and can be placed on a statutory footing. QQI is continuing to engage with higher education institutions to develop an academic integrity policy. It has also been engaging with learner representatives through the Union of Students in Ireland, USI, to discuss academic integrity matters and to hear feedback on how QQI and institutions can support students and learners to avoid academic misconduct. Furthermore, QQI has been working with publishing and advertising platforms to monitor, report and remove advertisements for academic cheating services. This is to make these services harder to find and therefore less accessible to students.

The Senator spoke of having a public debate, which is a good idea and something he could progress. This issue is obviously of importance and it is difficult for society or education to keep pace with technological advances.

Senator Malcolm Byrne

I am glad Quality and Qualifications Ireland, QQI, is taking a very proactive approach in this area, but AI will transform virtually every aspect of our life and work and various forms of automation will transform a wide range of professions. The Government needs to lead the public debate on this within the education space and broader society and, indeed, in many cases to be positive. The idea of a select committee within these Houses on artificial intelligence, emerging technologies and their potential impact could be welcome. We should look at training in the Houses of the Oireachtas on how AI will influence all of our work, because I can certainly envisage, at some stage in the future, my avatar posing a Commencement matter to a ministerial avatar and seeing an AI-enabled answer being delivered in response. Maybe it is happening already. This is transformative. The EU's AI Act will be its most important legislation this decade. However, we need to have an education and training system that adapts and is ready for the changes.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

None of us is irreplaceable and I am sure we could have avatars in the future. The Senator makes some very valid points. I should mention that legislation has been in place since 2019. Ireland became the first country in Europe to enact legislation to address the growing issue of contract cheating in education and training. There were fines of €100,000 and up to five years' imprisonment for that. Under section 43A, it is an offence to facilitate a learner to cheat; advertise a cheating service; and publish ads for cheating services to learners. As a follow-up to that 2019 legislation, QQI established the national academic integrity network. It raises awareness of academic integrity and has a communications strategy. There is also the global academic integrity network, which the Minister, Deputy Harris, launched in October 2022. It is a consortium of international education agencies. It aims to develop and mobilise an international response to the growing threat of essay mills, especially since online and hybrid learning in the pandemic. There are 24 members in the network, from a number of international jurisdictions and it recently met to discuss the implications of AI tools such as ChatGPT for academic integrity. However, I note what the Senator said about a technological revolution. There should be consistency within the higher education systems and indeed the education system as a whole.

Business Supports

Senator Garret Ahearn

I thank the Minister of State for being here. The reason I tabled this Commencement matter is that there are an awful lot of businesses in County Tipperary that, over the past year, have tried to look at ways to change their business expenditure and reduce costs. Obviously energy costs have been a significant challenge for businesses over the past year. It is worth noting, and I know the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, said it in an interview a couple of days ago, how the wholesale costs of energy have dramatically reduced, but the costs on businesses and homeowners have not reduced to the same level at all yet. It is quite striking how long that takes, when one looks at how quickly costs went up.

The reason I ask the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications to look into this matter is that is a long-term investment businesses can make, where they can get the potential investment back within five years. It used to take about seven years, but now they will be able to get that back within five years. Most businesses do not have a massive cash flow to be able invest in an awful lot of things. What they need to do much of the time is invest in and grow their own business and buy stock, if that is what they are doing. Most businesses do not have the capability to find €50,000 or €60,000 to put up solar panels. I know two businesses in County Tipperary that have spent more than €50,000 in the past six or nine months on solar panels to reduce their energy costs, but they had to fork out all of that money and they got no support whatsoever from Government; zero.

The most frustrating thing businesses find is that we are giving grants through the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI, of up to €27,000 to homeowners to retrofit their houses through insulation, solar panels and a range of other options and the State will pay 40% of the costs for farmers willing to invest in solar panels and yet there is nothing for businesses. The changes this would make for businesses in the area I am from would be significant.

If ever it comes to a point where the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications decides to bring this measure in, it needs to be retrospective. Many businesses have made changes in 2022, as part of a long-term investment of reducing their bills. They should not be penalised if Government is slow in bringing in a scheme to support businesses, just because they were early to change to their ways. I ask that we look at some way of supporting businesses. This is essentially meeting our EU obligations with regard to climate change. I do not see any reason the Minister or the Department could not be supportive of it. If we are willing to support homeowners and farmers, why would we not be willing to support businesses? The Department needs to play a leading role in this to support businesses. I know of two businesses in particular that are putting themselves under considerable pressure with the amount of money they have invested in solar panels. They have to risk other areas of their businesses just to be able to do so. I ask that the Minister and the Department take this matter seriously.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I am taking this Commencement matter on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan. I will first outline the microgeneration support scheme which provides grants for the installation of solar photovoltaic, PV, panels up to 6 kW. I will then outline the supports available to businesses under this scheme. The Government approved the microgeneration support scheme on 21 December to support 330 MW of new microgeneration capacity by 2030 under the climate action plan. This was based on connecting 60,000 homes and 9,000 non-domestic installations, such as businesses and community groups. The scheme was designed to provide support to domestic and non-domestic applicants for renewable installations up to 6 kW.

These applicants are also eligible to avail of the clean export guarantee tariff. This tariff represents a key aspect of a comprehensive enabling framework for micro- and small-scale generators in Ireland, which allows them to receive payment from their electricity supplier for all excess renewable electricity they export to the grid, reflective of the market value of the electricity. The clean export guarantee tariff rates currently range from 13.5 cent per kWh to 21 cent per kWh. The guarantee became available on the transposition of Article 21 of the renewable energy directive into Irish law on 15 February 2022, to both new and existing micro- and small-scale generators.

Following the initial launch of the domestic solar PV scheme in February 2022, the second phase of the microgeneration support scheme commenced on 22 September 2022, when the SEAI extended solar PV grants to the non-domestic sector, including schools, businesses, small farms and community enterprises, for installations up to 6 kW. Consequently, businesses can now apply to the SEAI for a grant towards the cost of installing solar PV equipment. Grants are currently €900 per kW up to 2kW, and a further €300 per kW between 2 kWe - I am not 100% sure what that stands for - and 4 kWe, for a total maximum grant amount of €2,400. Non-domestic applicants within this range will also be eligible to apply for the clean export guarantee.

The guarantee, alongside maximising the consumption of self-generated renewable electricity, will provide the most benefit in the context of offsetting rising electricity costs, as well as shortening the payback period for the microgeneration investment. The Department is also developing the small-scale generation scheme for generators above 50 kW to support the deployment of rooftop and ground-mounted solar PV in cohorts that are not as suited to other support measures, such as the renewable electricity support scheme. That scheme is expected to be launched this year.

I again thank the Senator for raising this important topic. I welcome the debate. The Senator referred to savings. It should be noted that a typical domestic customer with a 2.1 kW solar PV installation comprising seven solar PV panels that cover approximately 12 sq. m of roof space can expect to save in the region of €200 per annum by consuming 60% of the self-generated electricity. They could also expect to be paid in the region of €90 per annum for exporting 40% of their generated electricity to the grid on the basis of a clean export guarantee of 13.5 cent per kilowatt hour.

Senator Garret Ahearn

I thank the Minister of State and the Department for the response. I welcome the fact that the Department is developing a small-scale generation scheme for generators above 50 kW to support the deployment of rooftop and ground-mounted solar PV. That is really significant. The Minister of State indicated that the scheme is expected to be launched this year. I hope that will be done as quickly as possible, because I have talked about energy supports for up to 50 kW at least.

When I say that businesses get no supports, I mean they get a little bit of support in the form of €900 for up to 2 kW. The latter is not enough energy to boil a kettle. I am talking about businesses such as supermarkets or butchers which have high energy costs and are willing to invest in solar panels to reduce their cost but need that support from the State. The scheme is supposed to be set up this year. We are already more than one third of the way through the year. I ask the Minister of State to ask the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications if it would engage with me and, in particular, with businesses in rural areas like County Tipperary on this matter.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

There is the small-scale generation scheme for generators above 50 kW to support the deployment of rooftop and ground-mounted solar PV in cohorts that are not as suited to other support measures, such as the renewable electricity support scheme. As I said, that scheme is expected to be launched this year.

I thank the Senator for raising this important topic. There are grant supports for businesses that are willing to install solar PV. Those grants are currently available for installations of up to and including 6 kW. These supports have been made available through the microgeneration support scheme. As I mentioned, the Government approved the microgeneration support scheme on 21 December 2021 to support 380 MW of new microgeneration capacity by 2030 under the climate action plan. This amounts to 60,000 homes and 9,000 non-domestic installations.

I will bring the Senator's request back to the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications and ask him to engage with the Senator on the matter.

Housing Schemes

Senator John Cummins

I thank the Minister of State for taking this matter. She has had a busy morning filling in for her ministerial colleagues.

I am sure that the Minister of State will agree with me that the housing adaptation grants that are issued by local authorities to older persons and those with disabilities represent some of the best value to be had for the money the State spends each year. Last week, the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage issued grant funding of €66.5 million to the 31 local authorities. Local authorities will add 20% funding from their own resources to that, which means that over €83 million will be spent this year on disabled persons grants to assist more than 12,000 older persons and those with disabilities to adapt their homes to meet their needs.

From dealing with people on a daily basis at my offices, which are located in Dungarvan and Waterford city, I am aware that those who avail of these grants find them extremely beneficial in the context of making their homes more suitable and comfortable to live in. There are three grants. The housing aid for older persons provides up to 95% of the grant to owner-occupied homes for people aged over 66 years to cover costs of up to €8,000 for necessary improvements like rewiring, central heating and the replacement of boilers. There is the mobility aid grant that provides 100% support of up to €6,000 to address mobility problems, with the installation of rails, ramps, stairs, stairlifts and level-access showers. There is also the housing adaptation grant for people with disabilities, which provides up to 95% of the costs and up to €30,000 for works to adapt a home, to suit the needs of a person with a disability, by the installation of a downstairs toilet, wheelchair adaptation or an extension to the property.

The issue is that these grant amounts do not go as far as they once did because of the significant rise in construction inflation that we have experienced over the last 12 to 18 months. Such a situation is very problematic for anyone who has been approved for grant support because they must often supply the money to cover the difference between the grant that is approved for them and the actual cost of the work. The people in question are vulnerable members of society. The grant amounts need to be changed to reflect inflation in the construction sector. The Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Kieran O'Donnell, is examining this matter. I have had several meetings with him in respect of it. I hope that the grant amounts will be changed. I am not sure whether the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, can confirm any grant increases this morning. The grants must be increased.

We also have to increase the block grant that is provided to local authorities. If we just increase the grant amounts without increasing the block grant, all that will happen is that fewer people will be able to avail of these essential grants. In light of the significant surpluses that are running due to the extremely prudent management of the economy, I would like local authorities to be given a block grant of €3 million or €4 million before the summer recess because this would allow them to spend money in the second half of the year and clear many of the waiting lists relating to the people with disabilities and older persons who avail of these grants.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I am giving this response on behalf of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage.

The housing adaptation grants for older people and people with a disability scheme assists those in private houses to make their accommodation more suited to their needs. The overall scheme encompasses the three grants the Senator mentioned, namely: the housing adaptation grant for people with disabilities; the mobility aids grant; and the housing aid for older people grant. As the Senator will know, the scheme is means tested and operates on a sliding scale, with the highest percentage grants available to those with the lowest incomes and vice versa. The detailed administration of the scheme, including assessment, approval, prioritisation and apportionment, is the responsibility of local authorities.

In 2022, nearly €86 million in funding was made available to facilitate the payment of more than 12,000 individual grants. Local authorities were recently informed of their allocations for 2023 under this scheme, with each local authority receiving an increase on its 2022 allocation.

Housing for All contains a commitment to a review being undertaken in respect of the range of housing grants available to assist with meeting specific housing needs for our ageing population and those with disabilities. A report on this review has been prepared by the Department. My colleague, the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, will give careful consideration to the report. A decision on the recommendations in the report will be made as soon as possible.

The Department also provides funding to local authorities under the disabled persons grants scheme to carry out works on social housing stock to address the needs of older people, people with disabilities or those in overcrowded situations.

The total expenditure on this scheme was more than €17 million in 2022, facilitating more than 1,500 essential adaptations. The Department continues to support local authorities in their work in this area and funding allocations under the 2023 programme will be announced shortly.

The suite of grants available for adaptation works for both private and social housing is kept under constant review and funding allocated under the schemes is managed to ensure it is efficiently and effectively used to the greatest effect possible. As I said, the funding available for the grants is under active consideration as part of the review report.

I have listened to what the Senator has said about the fact these are vulnerable cohorts of people and that the grants do not go as far as they used to because of inflation and other factors. The Senator also has concerns around having a block grant before the summer recess. It is all about getting best value for money. I will take those comments back to the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage.

Senator John Cummins

I thank the Minister of State for that reply. My local authority received €1.8 million last week under the disabled persons grants scheme but I believe that is insufficient to meet the needs in my area of Waterford. I welcome the fact an announcement is imminent in regard to the social housing stock but from engaging with the housing team in Waterford, as an example, it could definitely spend an additional €1 million to €1.5 million before year-end if it got an early indication of grant funding. Given those allocations are imminent in terms of the social housing stock, there is an opportunity in this regard. As I said, because of the prudent financial management of the economy, we have additional surpluses and this area really fits the bill, given what we are looking for in terms of the spending of some of those moneys. They are one-off in nature, they are capital in nature and they are very good value for money for the State. I would like the Minister of State to take the message back to the Minister to increase the level of funding to local authorities in this important area.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I have listened to what the Senator has said and I will take his comments back to the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage. I understand that among the areas which the review is considering are the income thresholds, the grant limits and the application of the decision-making process, including any supplementary documentation required. I understand the recommendations in the review report are being actively considered. It was helpful that the Senator made his comments today because the funding is under active consideration as part of the review report and his comments will certainly be taken on board.

Seanad Reform

Senator Michael McDowell

I welcome the Minister of State. It is a long time since the people of Ireland voted on this issue in 1979, in the dim and distant past. That is the first point. The second is that it has been five weeks since the Supreme Court handed down its judgment in the matter. It is also the case that the Supreme Court has said it will extend the stay on its decision until the end of July in order that the Government can, in the meantime, come in to tell the Supreme Court how much longer it will need to deal with this problem.

We now have a situation where, on my count, there are five universities and five technical universities. I spoke recently to people involved in one of the universities and they reckon there are between 1.2 million and 1.8 million people entitled to vote as graduates of those universities. That is the first thing we have to get on board. The second is that the Constitution requires that whatever solution is brought about, those 1.2 million to close to 2 million people will be obliged to vote by postal ballot and there are significant logistical issues in that regard.

The next thing is that the 1979 amendment created a series of choices for the Oireachtas. The choices effectively are that the universities can be grouped together in smaller constituencies or can all be put together in one large constituency. I wonder how practical it would be for 1.2 million to 1.8 million people to vote in one constituency.

The other point we have to remember is that if we take the figure of 1.2 million or 1.8 million, it means a minority of people in this country will have a vote on a small part of the composition of this House but the great majority of people who do not have university qualifications will have no say. The time has come to deliver on the commitment made by the then Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, via the Manning report to implement wider reform of the franchise for the Seanad. As we know, the Manning report was a compromise. It continued in part the role of local authority members in electing some Members of this House, but proposed to give people who had a genuine interest, say, in agriculture, industry and commerce or culture and education, the right to become individual voters on voting panels for those seats.

The time has come for the Government to indicate what it is going to do. This is a complex matter, which I accept, but perhaps the Minister of State will tell the House the following. Has the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, brought a paper to Government on this matter? Is the matter currently under consideration? Is there going to be consultation with the universities and broader society? Is there going to be consultation between the party leaders, the political parties and the Independent Members of these Houses as to what steps the Government proposes to take, or are we going to be given a fait accompli that this is what the Government has decided in secret at a Cabinet meeting and this is what it is going to tell the Supreme Court it is committed to? The opportunity is there now for the Minister of State to inform the House.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I thank Senator McDowell for raising this issue, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage. As the House will know, and as the Senator indicated, the Supreme Court delivered its judgment on 31 March in a case brought by Mr. Thomas Heneghan, a graduate of the University of Limerick, against the State, seeking an extension of voting rights at Seanad university panels elections to graduates of third level institutions other than those of Trinity College Dublin and the National University of Ireland. The applicant had claimed that by not extending voting rights to other third level institutions, the State had neglected to take account of the outcome of the referendum held in 1979, as noted by Senator McDowell.

The Seanad Electoral (University Members) Act 1937 sets out the current legislative provisions governing the election of university Senators to Seanad Éireann. In the recent judgment, the Supreme Court determined that sections 6 and 7 of that Act, which provide for the election of Members of the Seanad by certain university graduates, are unconstitutional because they are not consistent with Article 18.4.2° of the Constitution. That article was inserted into the Constitution in 1979 following a referendum approving the amendment contained in the Seventh Amendment of the Constitution (Election of Members of Seanad Éireann by Institutions of Higher Education) Act 1979. The Supreme Court has suspended its declaration of invalidity and, therefore, the practical effect of the judgment, until 31 July 2023 in the first instance.

The Minister, Deputy O’Brien, recognises the significance of the Supreme Court ruling and the need for a comprehensive response to it. The Minister, together with the Minister of State with responsibility for heritage and electoral reform, Deputy Noonan, and their Department, is currently considering the judgment with a view to preparing options for consideration by the Government, which was one of Senator McDowell’s questions. What they are, I do not know yet, but they are under active consideration and I understand this work is being progressed as a matter of priority in the Department.

I do not wish to pre-empt any proposals of the Ministers or, indeed, any Government decision at this stage. Suffice to say that the judgment of the Supreme Court will be responded to in a comprehensive manner.

As the Senator will understand, this Government's electoral reform priority to date has been the establishment of an electoral commission. An Coimisiún Toghcháin was established on a statutory footing on 9 February 2023. Independent of Government, it reports directly to the Oireachtas and will be central to the administration development and the protection of our democratic processes and institutions.

I thank the Senator, once again, for raising the issue. I appreciate that it is a complex matter. I acknowledge that a long period has passed since 1979 when the referendum was voted on, and that it has been five weeks since the judgment. The Senator also mentioned that the graduates of five universities and five technical universities cannot vote, which, as he said, amounts to around between 1.2 million and 1.8 million people. The Senator's concerns about whether there will be postal ballot and so forth will be considered.

Senator Michael McDowell

I note the Minister of State's response. I see the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, and Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, are working on proposals to bring to Cabinet. First, those proposals should be the subject of major consultation with the relevant committees of the Oireachtas, the relevant university institutions, the Electoral Commission and the wider public. Second, I emphasise that it is hugely important that we do not just simply concentrate on the university seats, which do need reform, and I have legislation before the House to implement a reform, but that we take one step further and say that those people in Ireland who do not have university degrees - people who are working in hospitals, building sites, farms and factories - are not second-class citizens. If we give the vote to 1.8 million people, who are university graduates, to vote for six seats, we owe it to the remainder of the population to give them some say in the election of the remaining 43 seats, as proposed in the Manning report.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

As a graduate of Trinity College Dublin, I have had the privilege of always being able to vote in Seanad elections but others are not so fortunate. Some of the comments the Senator made are not without merit in that regard. I note his comments on the need for a public consultation on any proposals that are brought to Government. I will certainly bring that back to the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage. I am aware that this issue has been prominent since the defeat of the referendum proposal to abolish the Seanad in 2013. The Senator referenced the Manning report. There have been two major reports containing recommendations on reforming the election of Members of the Seanad in recent times, the Report of the Working Group on Seanad Reform, under the chairmanship of Dr. Maurice Manning; and the Report of the Seanad Reform Implementation Group, which was chaired by the Senator. I am confident that the issue will now be addressed by Government in light of the Supreme Court ruling.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 10.33 a.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 11 a.m.

Sitting suspended at 10.33 a.m. and resumed at 11 a.m.