The Minister of State, Senator Hackett, is very welcome. Senators Murphy and Dolan are sharing time.
Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters
Post Office Network
On behalf of Senator Dolan and I, I thank the Cathaoirleach for adding this matter to the agenda at short notice. I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House. I know that the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, is not available. He has been in contact with our offices and will be following up.
Last Friday morning, a colleague of mine, Councillor Marty McDermott, rang me in deep shock. He asked me if I was aware that Roscommon town post office building is to be closed. I could not believe it. I started making inquiries and working on the issue. Regrettably, I found that An Post had reached a decision to close the building. I should make clear that there is no threat to the postal service. There is some confusion over that. This is about the closure of an iconic building that has been there for many years, dating back to the foundation of the State. It is a beautiful building in the square in Roscommon town. The Government has pumped millions into the town to improve it. As Senator Dolan will attest, there are beautiful arrangements in place, and a lot of money has been spent. The Government has spent €20 million on a new water treatment system around the town. All of it is welcome investment. Now, An Post is deciding to close this building.
Why is it so annoying to the people? I will tell Members why. As far as I can establish, this is the first county town in which An Post has decided to do this. It wants to sell off what is a beautiful iconic building and a social hub for people. We are utterly and totally opposed to it. With the councillors on Roscommon County Council and all of our Oireachtas people, we are asking An Post to call this off. It is not on and it is not acceptable. I have no difficulty with the post office business. My issue is not with the business. I have a difficulty with An Post, that is very much supported by the Government, doing something like this when very little is known about it. I will hand over to Senator Dolan, who will take up the story from there.
I thank Senator for sharing this Commencement matter with me. It is a big issue. We had a meeting with over 12 councillors in Roscommon town only a few days ago. It is frustrating. This is a service and a crucial amenity. I understand that the model has to be looked at, that there is an impact from Brexit and Covid and that we are seeing a lot more in terms of e-commerce, online shopping and retail, but we need to maintain our An Post services, including for financial transactions and money banking. The bill-paying and normal over-the-counter services also need to be considered. They need to be maintained, as Senator Murphy has said, in our county towns.
Is the GPO going to be outsourced to a SuperValu on O'Connell Street? Is that what the plan is? I would love to see that. I note that An Post's corporate services have already moved to the new Exo building at the end of the quays, but is it planning on moving everything out of the GPO? What are we going to do and where do we make a stand? Is An Post seriously going to streamline itself out of existence? The last report published noted that 300 full-time equivalent staff are no longer on the books. The organisation is looking at contracting out to our postmasters, who - do not get me wrong - do an excellent job and are expanding the services. I know there are many pros and cons around the postmasters in terms of co-location, reducing costs, including for heating and security, expanding the services and making buildings accessible. This is an iconic building that has been there since 1911. It is listed in the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage. What happens to that building now? There is a challenge when a listed building is taken on for development for a commercial entity or enterprise. I feel that county towns should retain a direct An Post employee presence and at the moment, this does not appear to be the case.
I thank the Senators for raising this issue. It is a very pertinent issue and one I can relate to, being from County Mayo. I am aware of the importance of the post office in any town. I welcome the opportunity to outline the position on this matter today on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, and the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers.
An Post is a commercial State company with a mandate to act commercially. As such, day-to-day operational matters, including decisions in relation to the size, distribution and future of the network, are matters for the board and the management of the company, and not ones in which the Minister or Minister of State has a statutory function. However, the Minister and Minister of State are both very aware of the impact that decisions relating to changes in An Post operations have on communities and individuals in both rural and urban areas. The Department will engage with An Post to outline and highlight the concerns which have been raised by staff, customers and the wider community.
As the Senators have both outlined, this is an iconic building in Roscommon town, and I know how important it is to the people of Roscommon and the wider area. As they have alluded to, in line with its ongoing transformation, An Post announced last week that it proposes converting six post offices from An Post-run to contractor-run, one of which is the Roscommon town office.
Fewer than 40 post offices of a total of more than 900 across the State are now run directly by An Post. An Post has outlined that the change in business model of the six offices will not in any way change the range or extent of the services offered by An Post in those selected locations and the company remains committed to providing each area with the highest standard of services for the future. An Post has advised that staff employed at the post offices in question will have options, including taking up the employment as the new postmaster or being redeployed within the network.
The Government's objectives for the An Post network include harnessing the opportunities presented by e-commerce and the digital economy and delivering a sustainable nationwide post office network at the heart of communities, offering a range of e-commerce, financial and Government services. The Government agreed that an amount of €10 million per annum will be provided by the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications over a three-year fixed term to support the postmasters, with funding to be disbursed across the post office network. The funding is being paid monthly for each 12-month period. Over €9.7 million has been claimed by An Post for 2023 for the postmaster network.
The programme for Government recognises that a modernised post office network will provide a better range of financial and e-commerce services for citizens and enterprise as part of its commitment to a sustainable nationwide post office network. The overall €30 million in funding being provided to support a sustainable nationwide post office network is in line with this commitment. That commitment is valid. It is good the modernise the post office system but, in saying that, I do appreciate the concerns regarding this particular building and moving the post office out of it.
I acknowledge that the Ministers are going to become involved in this. That is crucially important. My Oireachtas colleagues and I are working on getting a meeting with the Minister of State, Deputy Jack Chambers, and I believe that is going to happen.
This is a listed building. I know the Minister of State has a great interest in heritage herself. I do not want it sold off. As a listed building, there will be limitations on what can be done with it. We all know that. If the building is not efficient, surely there are ways An Post can make it more efficient in light of all of the schemes out there. This is a crucial issue for the people of Roscommon town and the county. As I said, it is a hub and a meeting place. It may be more used by older people as many young people do not use the post office. It is beautiful and very well-received in the area and the staff are excellent and interact in a great way. I have to hand back to Senator Dolan, but I thank the Minister of State for being here.
I know the Minister of State is taking this debate on behalf of the Minister of State, Deputy Jack Chambers. My colleague Senator Murphy is going to be working with the Minister of State and me. I have raised this issue with our parliamentary party and with the Taoiseach's office. It is crucial that we look at our long-term strategy. I know €10 million a year is being allocated from An Post, but is that just for the postmasters? What happens to services directly employed by An Post? How do we maintain them? What is the long-term strategy? How do we ensure that services are on main streets in town centres? What service provider is going to pay extra for rent on the main street when he or she could pay half the price four or five miles up the road? What is An Post going to do about these listed buildings? If someone decides to take on this contract, how is An Post going to support him or her to maintain the post office in the same location and perhaps to expand the building to make sure it is fit for purpose for people in the town and for the employees? More needs to be done and to be looked at.
Before I call on the Minister of State, I note that I do not see any statement on this circulating.
I have copies here. No one ever came up to me to ask for them.
That is okay. Members can get them when they go out.
I appreciate the concerns about this. I cannot really speak to what the plans are for this particular building but, as the Senators have said, it is an iconic building in the town and it has a great connection with the community. It is important that, whatever happens, the post office remains a central facility for people in the town to use. An Post tells me that the services will remain the same wherever the post office is located and that there will not be any falling back on the services. That is important because, in my own area, I have seen towns and villages that have lost services entirely. I will bring the Senators' concerns about the building back to both Ministers and see if there are any plans that can be shared.
Before I go any further, I welcome a transition year student from Portarlington, Conor Dunne, who is here for a two-week placement. He is very welcome.
Public Transport
I thank the Minister of State for being here to take this matter. I appreciate having the opportunity to talk about something very positive, although I am looking for some more detail on its implementation. This is very important for commuters in south Kildare, Drogheda, Wicklow and parts of Meath. Since my election to the Oireachtas, I have advocated very strongly for better commuter fares for south Kildare. The population in Kildare has grown a great amount over recent years. Because of the price of accommodation, rent and housing in Dublin, many people who are working or studying there travel from Kildare every day. It is really important that we get the whole area of public transport right. It needs to be accessible and affordable. I have worked closely with the NTA and the Minister of State, Deputy Jack Chambers, in recent years. Of course, the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, represents this whole area at Cabinet.
Our main issue related to the differential between the fares from Sallins, which is the short-hop zone, and from the next stop, Newbridge, which is outside that zone. The differential there was very big. People were basically bypassing Newbridge Station to park in Sallins, keeping cars on the road when what we all want to do is to keep them off the road and to have people use public transport, which is something I know the Minister of State is very committed to. The launch of the new national fares strategy by the NTA was certainly a very positive step in the right direction in bringing greater price equity to local commuters. We waited a number of months to find out what the final fare would be. Last week's announcement was really important for the people I represent. The reduction in a single adult fare from Newbridge is 45%, which is very significant. People in Kildare town will see a 37% reduction. This new outer Dublin commuter zone is really important. We had the Minister of State, Deputy Jack Chambers, down the week before to put another bit of pressure on. We have had a number of false dawns but are now really on the way towards providing a better deal for local commuters. Under the new determination, the single fare from Newbridge to Dublin will be €6 while the same fare from Kildare town will be €7.50. It is a great win and I am really glad to have played a part in it. I pay tribute to Jennifer Caffrey and the short-hop zone lobby group, who have done a lot of work over the last two years to keep the pressure on with regard to this issue.
We are obviously very keen to ensure this is implemented as soon as possible. As soon as we have a very positive announcement, all of the questions come along. Most importantly, when are we going to see these fares being put in place? We want to see them as a matter of urgency. Commuters in Newbridge and Kildare have been paying multiples of what their peers in Sallins pay for years so we want to see this rectified as soon as possible. We also want to see town buses in Newbridge and Kildare that will collect people in estates and bring them to the train. We want to see the new carriages that have been committed to and integrated ticketing being brought in as part of next generation ticketing. However, the most immediate issue is the timing and ensuring that these fares are implemented as soon as possible.
I thank Senator O'Loughlin for her Commencement matter, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Transport. I welcome the opportunity to discuss this important topic.
I want to clarify that the Minister has responsibility for policy and overall funding as regards public transport, but neither the Minister nor his officials are involved in the day-to-day operation of public transport services. The statutory responsibility for securing the provision of public transport services nationally rests with the National Transport Authority, NTA. The NTA works with the public transport operators, which deliver the services and have responsibility for day-to-day operational matters.
That said, I reassure the Senator that the Government is strongly committed to providing all citizens with reliable and realistic sustainable mobility options. Public transport clearly plays a key role in the delivery of that goal.
To support that objective, under budget 2024, a funding package of €613 million has been secured for public service obligation and Local Link services. This package includes funding for the continuation of the 20% fare reduction on PSO services, the extension of the young adult card on both PSO and commercial bus services to include 24- and 25-year-olds, and the continuation of the 90-minute fare until the end of 2024. Funding has also been secured to support the continued roll-out of new and enhanced bus and rail services this year.
As part of the programme for Government, we committed to review existing fare structures to ensure that public transport is as accessible as possible, supports the delivery of services and incentivises off-peak travel.
In its capacity as fare regulator, on 27 April 2023, the NTA published a new national fares strategy. Following that, on 18 January 2024, it published the first of a series of fares determinations related to the strategy. The Senator's question is about the timeline for the implementation of this fares determination and, in particular, when those living in areas such as Kildare and Newbridge can expect to see a roll-out of the new Dublin commuter zone and a reduction in their fares.
The most significant change in this year's fare determination is the implementation of an initial phase of the national fares strategy on Dublin commuter bus and rail services. This will deliver more consistent and equitable fares and reduce the disparities which currently exist for some passengers, particularly in the outer commuter towns surrounding Dublin. The Dublin commuter zone to which Senator O'Loughlin refers will extend from the outer edge of the Dublin city zone to approximately 50 km from the centre of Dublin and includes areas such as Naas, Kildare and Newbridge. The Dublin commuter zone fare is designed to ensure that the cheapest fare is made available for passengers and will help to alleviate boundary issues between the national and city fare structures. For example, for a journey from Newbridge to O'Connell Street, passengers will benefit from the flat-fare element within the city facilitating longer distances of travel at a cheaper fare. For journeys entirely within the Dublin commuter zone, the standard national fare structure will apply.
The Senator asked about the when. I am advised that it is expected that the new fare structure will come into operation on the Dublin commuter services by the end of quarter 3 of 2024. In the interim, the existing fare structure will continue to apply.
This fare determination represents the first step in delivering the national fares strategy, and it is the NTA's intention to roll this out further across the country in future determinations in the months ahead.
Obviously, this is good news. It is certainly good news for many who will be using this. The Minister of State has clarified that it will probably be the end of September before this comes in. I know it will not be long coming. It is always a little painful when something is announced and you have to wait quite some time before it comes in. I do appreciate that the implementation comes down to the NTA, but the Government plays a very important part in setting the policy and ensuring that the money is put in place.
I take on board too what the Minister of State says about being strongly committed to providing all citizens with reliable and realistic mobility options and the fact that she mentioned Local Link. Local Link is hugely important in ensuring that people get to the point from which they can travel to the city. I ask the Minister of State to take all of that on board in terms of all the supports that need to be put in place.
The Senator is right that the whole thing has to be integrated and connected. The call for Local Link to bring people to the train stations is an important aspect of this. It is something I will bring back to the Minister, Deputy Ryan. I understand the wait is a challenge but, as the Senator says, this is good news for these towns. I hope it is the start of something we will see rolled out further.
I remind Senators that more and more people are using public transport. I think the reduction of fares we have seen over recent years has been a real driver of that, but also, people are changing. We have a young man from Portarlington in the Gallery. I trust he got the train up from Portarlington because that is a very good service too.
I thank the Senator for the Commencement matter. This is a good news story.
I thank the Minister of State for taking time from her busy schedule to be with us this morning. We appreciate it.
We await the arrival of a Minister of State to take our next Commencement matter. We will suspend the House for three minutes while we wait for the Minister of State to arrive. Is that agreed? Agreed.
Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 10.57 a.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 11 a.m.
Sitting suspended at 10.57 a.m. and resumed at 11 a.m.
The sitting is now resumed and I ask Senators to take their seats. We are waiting for a Minister to attend for Senator Clonan's matter. As the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell is here, would Senator Clonan mind if we went on to the next matter and came back to his?
No. In fairness, the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell is here.
We will come back to Senator Clonan. We will proceed because the Minister of State for the next matter is here and I know he is anxious to get away because he has business to do.
Vacant Properties
I thank the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell for coming to the House to discuss the very important issue of vacant and derelict properties, especially in Limerick city and county. A number of people have been on to me who are very welcoming of the grant but they have some issues with it. Is the Minister of State aware of the average wait time? I know people have to wait 13 months for the final decision. This is quite a bit of time. Have there been many appeals? Have the decisions changed where there have been appeals?
I was contacted by someone who was renovating their home with their own money. They were putting two bedrooms upstairs in an old cottage. They must spend the money to get the money back. This is fine but because they must wait until everything is finished they are finding it prohibitive. Could this be done in stages whereby people could get the money back as they spend it? I ask the Minister of State whether this could be considered. Other people are in the same situation of spending the money and having to wait for the final decision 13 months later. It means their money is tied up. The person I referred to has been told they are entitled to the grant. They have spent the money and now they are waiting for it to come back so they can do other jobs to the house. These are my key questions. How many applications have been received from Limerick city and county?
I acknowledge the indulgence of Senator Clonan in allowing us to proceed. I thank my colleague from Limerick, Senator Maria Byrne, for raising this important issue and allowing me the opportunity to provide an update on the vacant property refurbishment grant, know as the Croí Cónaithe grant. It is a key action under Housing for All, the Government's policy on housing. The vacant property refurbishment grant was launched in July 2022 under the Croí Cónaithe towns fund. Initially the amounts available were €30,000 for properties vacant for more than two years and €50,000 for derelict properties, and the properties had to have been built prior to 1993. Last May this was changed whereby the properties must have been built prior to 2008. The grants have been increased to €50,000 for properties vacant for two years and to €70,000 for derelict properties. This is very straightforward. Derelict properties must be on the derelict property register or deemed to be derelict in a submission made to the local authority.
Feedback on the grant has been very positive since its launch, with 6,300 applications received and 3,400 applications approved to date. Policy and guidance in respect of the scheme are set out by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, with individual applications processed by local authorities, with the support of the Department and the Housing Agency.
Initially the scheme allowed for 18 months for works to be completed after application approval. Senator Byrne referred to the fact that this is now 13 months. This is to encourage recipients to complete refurbishment works as quickly as possible. To deal with one of the points raised by Senator Byrne, discretion is available to local authorities to extend this in individual cases. If Senator Byrne is aware of cases she should go to the local authority. If there are issues, by all means she should come to the Department and we can look at them and follow up on them. Limerick City and County Council is doing good work and there are good people involved.
Recently the Department published statistics on the vacant property refurbishment grant, including drawdowns, which noted that 100 grants were drawn down to the end of 2023. The total grants approved during that period was 3,100. There is a time lag between grant approval and payment and Senator Byrne referred to stage payments. A review of the terms of the programme is under way which will be completed in the middle of this year. We are considering all aspects, including this factor. The records show that of the 3,166 applications approved to 31 December 2023, a total of 150 were approved over 13 months. The drawdown levels are tracking the levels of initial approvals. We expect many more to come through in 2024.
Senator Byrne asked specifically about Limerick City and County Council. As of 31 December, 275 grant applications had been received with 169 approved, four rejected - I am not certain whether these have been appealed but I can follow up on it - and ten payments issued on completion of works. The remainder of applications are at various stages of assessment by the local authority, including some awaiting requested required documentation from the applicant, such as arranging site inspections. The rate of rejection is very low, which is positive.
Addressing vacancy and maximising the use of existing housing stock is a primary objective of the Government. A key initiative has been the introduction of the vacant property refurbishment grant. The Department will continue to monitor and support its delivery by local authorities throughout the country to bring vacant and derelict properties back into use and breathe new life into our cities, including Limerick city and county. There have been 275 applications with 169 approved, four rejected and ten payments by Limerick City and County Council. I have covered the questions asked by Senator Byrne and obviously she will have follow-up questions.
I thank the Minister of State. It is positive that the scheme is under review. If there were stage payments it would allow people to move into their homes sooner. If they were able to get the money back as they completed the work they would be able to reinvest the money in their homes. This is very welcome. I also welcome the fact that there is discretion around the 13 months. I know from speaking to some people that they were having issues with getting tradespeople and builders to carry out the works. If there are problems I will come back to the Minister of State and the Department. I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive reply.
I thank Senator Byrne. As I have said, we want to see people in Limerick city and county taking up older properties. For those properties that have been vacant for more than two years and built prior to 2008 people will get a grant of €50,000 for either living in the house or renting it. If it is a derelict property they will get a further €20,000 to bring it up to €70,000. If people apply for SEAI grants on top of this they are probably looking at another €25,000. We very much want this to be seen as a way for people to buy their first homes. People might use it as a rental property. People cannot have two properties in the scheme to live in or to rent. It is a fair scheme. I very much take on board the points raised by Senator Byrne. A review is under way. If issues do arise, and I find Limerick City and County Council very good, by all means come back to the Department. This is a scheme we are very excited about. As I have said, there have been more than 6,000 applications to date and we want to see a lot more.
I thank the Minister of State for giving us his time this morning.
Hospital Waiting Lists
The next Commencement matter is in the name of Senator Clonan. It relates to children on waiting lists for complex spinal surgery and limb reconstruction at Children's Health Ireland. The Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell is not taking this matter.
That is okay. At this stage I invite Senator Clonan to speak on this Commencement matter.
I have tabled this matter to ask the Minister for Health to comment on the fact we have 150 children with limb deformities and serious spinal issues who are not being operated on. I know of at least one child who has become permanently paralysed since we raised this issue prior to Christmas.
It is of great interest that neither the Minister nor one of his representatives has turned up to take a Commencement matter. Is that a precedent? It is an affront to this House and to the 150 children who are in pain as we speak. What makes those children different from other Irish citizens? As I have said before, it is because they are disabled. Because they are disabled, they are allowed to suffer on in pain. Can the Minister of State imagine a child becoming permanently paralysed on the Government's watch, despite it having been made aware of this matter before Christmas? I will not take a response from him. This is not personal; he knows the respect and the esteem in which I hold him, but the Minister has not bothered to turn up here.
On a point of order, I am not here to take this matter. I came in for the previous debate. Out of respect for the House, I remained in the chair.
I appreciate that.
I will not be providing a response. I remained here out of respect for the House.
This is not personal.
I am here out of respect for the House, of which I am a former Member.
I hold the Minister of State in very high esteem and have great respect for him. The fact that the Minister and the Department have not sent anybody here is absolutely emblematic of the contempt in which they hold disabled children and their parents.
The core issue is that two of Ireland's most experienced spinal surgeons came before the Joint Committee on Health last year and called out Children's Health Ireland, CHI, in respect of Temple Street and Cappagh. They said that we have a cohort of children who are not being treated within the therapeutic window. That makes us outliers in both European and international terms. It means that children are undergoing unnecessarily complex spinal surgeries. In that context, my own son was an anaesthetic risk going in for his spinal surgery to the extent that he had to be manually extubated by the anaesthetist or he would not have survived intensive care.
Why are CHI, the Minister and the Department putting us through this pain and trauma? Why are these 150 children being left on waiting lists without surgery? One of them has become permanently paralysed. Is the Minister of State listening to what I am saying? A child has become permanently paralysed. That is completely and utterly unacceptable. The Minister cannot even come in here and take a Commencement matter. He is showing contempt for the House and its processes.
The two senior surgeons to whom I refer basically blew the whistle on the mistreatment and ill-treatment of disabled children. As a consequence, they are now both the target of whistleblower reprisal on the part of the management of CHI. Representatives of CHI came before the joint committee prior to Christmas. Their contributions were not credible. Their position is not tenable. I want to know if the Minister, the Tánaiste or the Taoiseach have confidence in the board of CHI, because I do not. The two surgeons do not, but they have been suspended. The latter was an act of whistleblower reprisal; it fits the classic template. The surgeons came before the committee, pointed out the deficiencies in the system and have now been suspended. As a consequence of their suspension, no surgeries are being carried out on children with very serious spinal issues.
As I said, we have children with limb deformities that are not being addressed. This is completely and utterly intolerable, and the Minister has not even shown up here today. The burden of this whistleblower reprisal is being borne by 150 children. Members of this House ,quite rightly express concern about children in Gaza and Ukraine but 150 Irish children have been left in pain. I am not going to leave the House until the Minister comes here. I am not going to quit this position until the Minister comes in or sends one of his representatives. What is happening is completely disrespectful and is emblematic of how this State treats disabled citizens and disabled children, who are the most vulnerable people in our society. It is an absolute disgrace.
Before I call the Minister of State to reply, I wish to say to the Senator that he has made his point. I think it is unusual. We have no response, even a written response, to circulate to him. The Minister of State has clearly stated his position. He is not scheduled to take this matter. He has indicated that he would like to say a few words. I am going to facilitate the Minister of State for a few moments.
With respect, on what basis?
The Minister of State is not attempting to reply.
Is the Minister of State entitled to speak?
He has indicated.
I know the Minister of State wants to speak.
I would like to facilitate the Minister of State's request to speak to the House.
I tabled a Commencement matter to get an informed response from the Department, not to get somebody coming in here and talking the matter by the seat of their pants. No disrespect to the Minister of State, but does he know anything about orthopaedic care?
Senator Clonan, please. I understand your passion.
Children in the Gallery, you go home and tell your parents what a circus this Seanad is. Tell them how we treat disabled children in this country.
Senator Clonan, the Minister of State is on his feet.
This is a civics lesson in how parliamentary democracy is abused.
The Minister of State has a few words to say.
Out of respect for the House and for Senator Clonan, I felt obliged to stay here for this debate. I am not going to respond to the debate. This is an issue I am aware of but I do not have a competence in. It does not come within my brief. I undertake to go back to the Minister to confirm what exactly happened here - I suspect it will also be followed up by the Seanad Office - namely, that the Minister was not present to respond to the Senator's Commencement matter. The Senator is hugely committed to this very worthwhile cause. I will seek to out what the circumstances are in terms of the script. Out of respect for the Senator and the House, I undertake to follow up on the matter.
I thank the Minister of State. Senator Clonan has one minute to respond, as is the process for Commencement matters.
I thank the Minister of State. I have one minute to respond. I appreciate that the Minister of State, out of respect for the process, has undertaken to respond. I want him to know that we have 150 disabled children in need of complex spinal surgery. Children like my son are being allowed to deteriorate because of a vendetta by the board of CHI against two senior surgeons who raised concerns about the mistreatment of Irish children. We have it within our gift to resolve this problem today but the Minister is refusing to do so. It is a rhetorical device to say that this is a matter for CHI. The Minister, Deputy Donnelly, can give authority to CHI or the HSE but he cannot cede responsibility. The Minister is responsible for everything that happens or fails to happen in his Department, and these 150 children are on him. He did not show up here today. Nobody from Government, apart from the Minister of State who was here to take a different matter, showed up. Another Minister of State came in to respond to questions about listed buildings for An Post but no Minister will not come in to respond to a Commencement matter on children with disabilities. That is because children with disabilities and disabled citizens in Ireland are considered to have less human value than other citizens. That has been my lived experience and it has been the experience of these families. One of the parents rang me last night, and I could hear his child in bed in pain in the background. She could not go to school, I could hear the mother trying to explain to the child that her daddy was on the phone to a Senator to see if he could get help for them.
Thank you, Senator Clonan.
Where is the Minister? I am sorry, Acting Chairperson, you are going to have to remove me from this Chamber.
Senator, I am chairing the proceedings.
I do not care. There are 150 children in extreme pain.
Senator Clonan, please take your seat.
I have raised this matter before. Nobody is listening. What does the Acting Chairperson expect me to do?
Senator Clonan, please. .
What if it was your child, Acting Chairperson? What if it was the Minister of State's child? If the Acting Chairperson's child became permanently paralysed-----
Senator Clonan, please take your seat.
-----would he invoke Standing Orders? Would you invoke a one-minute limit on a response?
Senator Clonan-----
I am not going-----
I have to operate on the basis of Standing Orders.
You are going to have to remove me from this Chamber.
I ask the Senator to take his seat.
This is emblematic of the way that this Government, and Irish policy, treat disabled people.
I ask Senator Clonan to take his seat.
I will not take my seat. You are going to have to remove me from this Chamber.
I am not removing anybody-----
I am not taking my seat.
-----I will suspend the House.
Suspend away.
I cannot call on the Minister of State if the Senator does not take his seat.
This is an absolute disgrace. If anybody looking on or listening to this ever doubted the contempt with which disabled citizens and carers are held in this country, here is the evidence. This is the proof of it.
Senator Clonan, will you please take your seat?
I was outside the gates for 20 years protesting, protests that fell on deaf ears.
I am going to suspend the House.
I got elected by the people to come in here and was given a mandate to raise these issues. When I come into this Chamber, what I have to say falls on deaf ears. They do not even turn up to listen to the matters that are being raised.
Senator Clonan, please take your seat.
I am not raising issues about expenses, listed buildings or rainforests-----
I am suspending the House until 11.30 a.m.
-----I am talking about 150 children who are in pain.
The House is now suspended.
Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 11.20 a.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 11.30 a.m.
Sitting suspended at 11.20 a.m. and resumed at 11.30 a.m.