I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I believe it is her first visit to Seanad Éireann as Minister of State. She is most welcome. I congratulate her on her elevation to high office. We wish her every success. I thank her for being here today. She has great experience in Senator Joe O'Reilly to navigate the Bill through the House.
Employment (Collective Redundancies and Miscellaneous Provisions) and Companies (Amendment) Bill 2023: Second Stage
Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
I thank the Leas Cathaoirleach for his kind remarks. I am pleased to have the opportunity to present this Bill for the consideration of the House following its recent successful passage through the Dáil, led by my predecessor, the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond. The Bill will further enhance the protection of employees in a collective redundancy in a way that does not unduly impede enterprise in the conduct of its business.
First, I will provide some background to the Bill and put it in some context. It is being brought forward in response to the commitment in the programme for Government to review whether the legal provisions surrounding collective redundancies and the liquidation of companies effectively protects workers' rights. In 2021, following extensive and constructive engagement with social partners, the plan of action on collective redundancies following insolvency was published. This plan of action, which was broadly welcomed by the social partners, principally addressed matters relating to employment rights and company law.
To date, we have delivered various actions that further supplement the already robust legislative protections and safeguards afforded to employees involved in corporate insolvency. This important Bill will deliver on the plan's key outstanding legislative commitments.
I will now outline the main provisions of the Bill, which consists of 27 sections, divided into four Parts. An explanatory memorandum has been published and provides a summary of these provisions.
Part 1 of the Bill provides for preliminary and general provisions setting out the Short Title of the Bill, its commencement and necessary definitions.
Part 2 provides for certain amendments to the Protection of Employment Act 1977. This governs collective redundancy rules. Part 2 of the Bill will further protect employees affected by collective redundancies. The Bill ensures that all collective redundancies are subject to a 30-day notification period before they take effect, including where the employer is insolvent. The Bill allows employees to seek redress of up to four weeks' remuneration from the Workplace Relations Commission if their employer makes them redundant before the 30-day notification period finishes. This redress is in addition to other forms of redress under the 1977 Act if an employer fails to consult employees' representatives or to provide them with information. It should be noted that where an employer makes an employee redundant before the end of the 30-day notification period, the employee may be entitled to redress under employment law such as the Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Act 1973, as amended. This new form of redress is in addition to and not in substitution for other redress provisions. The Bill also provides that where a liquidator is managing the collective redundancy process in an insolvency situation, they must fulfil the employer's obligations. Where they fail to comply with those duties, the WRC may prosecute them. Finally, in respect of proposed collective redundancies, the Bill will streamline the process for employers by allowing them to submit notifications to the Minister by electronic means.
Part 3 of the Bill provides for the establishment of the employment law review group, ELRG, on a statutory basis. The ELRG will be a significantly valuable resource to the Department, allowing for an ongoing assessment of employment and redundancy law to ensure that these laws continue to be fit for purpose. The ELRG will comprise members with expertise and an interest in the development of employment and redundancy law. It will include members from the legal, accountancy and insolvency professions; worker and employer representatives and regulators; and ministerial nominees.
Part 4 of the Bill provides for an amendment to the Companies Act 2014 which sets down a framework within which directors and companies are expected to operate. The 2014 Act provides for separate corporate legal personality and limited liability which is designed to encourage and to foster enterprise by permitting individuals to engage in entrepreneurial activity while limiting personal exposure to financial loss in the event of commercial failure. The 2014 Act demands that, in return for the privilege of limited liability, directors act in good faith and abide by the requirements of governance, transparency and commercial probity. It is important to remember that most company directors want to do the right thing and do their best to act accordingly. It is important also to note that in 2021 the then Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement reported that its reviews of liquidations showed that in over 90% of all liquidations, directors acted honestly and responsibly. Of course, however, in the event of non-compliance, remedies and accountability are important.
To that end, the 2014 Act has several provisions that can be utilised by creditors to set aside transactions which have been entered by companies and which have the effect of transferring assets or giving an advantage to certain creditors. It is these provisions which the Bill intends to enhance access to. It raises the bar for the permissibility of transferring assets in the period prior to insolvency and lowers the threshold required by the court to order a related company to contribute to the debts of the company being wound up. These amendments were sought by ICTU and recommended by the Company Law Review Group, a statutory advisory body on company law.
Finally, the Bill will amend the 2014 Act allowing workers as creditors to have greater access to information on liquidations. These amendments are reflective not just of the CLRG's March 2021 report on the provision of information to workers as creditors but also of ICTU's minority report.
Delivering this Bill here is reflective of the Government's continued commitment to supporting both businesses and employees, ensuring continual review and consideration of the careful balance to be struck between the respective rights of companies and creditors. I fully appreciate the difficulties inherent in trying to strike that delicate balance but I believe the balance struck in the Bill is fair for everyone. I thank the members of the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment for their consideration of the Bill. I also thank Deputies for their constructive and pragmatic engagement when this was swiftly passed through the the Dáil.
I look forward to hearing Senators' views and working with them to further progress this important legislation. I am very proud to commend this Bill to the House.
I again congratulate the Minister of State on her promotion.
I congratulate the Minister of State. I could not be more thrilled to see her here presenting this Bill. I am delighted she is here in the Seanad. She is very welcome.
I have a background in employment law and have been involved in collective redundancies over the years so I particularly welcome this Bill. It is very good legislation. The consultative process is a very valuable tool. Pardon me for referring to my WhatsApp but I have a document on it. There has been case law that says that that consultative period has to be real and meaningful. The idea, I suppose, is to have this collective input from employee representatives as well as trade unions where there are trade unions, but where there is no trade union recognition there must be employee representatives. The WRC's website is particularly good on setting out how to do that. It is a fantastic website as a resource for employers. Employees should get an opportunity to say they appreciate that there are difficulties, changes and challenges to the company and to have an input into addressing those challenges.
It does not always work out. Sometimes it is an irredeemable situation and, unfortunately, results in a redundancy, but at least having that formalised process is an exceptionally good thing. We have seen the abuses of it. We have seen tactical redundancies and similar instances. The Minister of State's Department has been very good in engaging particularly with the trade unions in that regard, and the consultation with ICTU has been very good on this and this Bill.
For the vast majority who end up in collective redundancies, however, it is not tactical but due to a change in circumstances or a change in buying patterns or something else. My experience of this is that it has been in terrible situations of hardship. As regards the holding and safeguarding of that consultative process, there is a criminal provision in the original Act. I think €250,000 is the fine a company can face. Having actual employee redress in it is very important, so that development and that amendment in this legislation is really good because it is really important. It has to be valuable and proper engagement. We have seen Tara Mines turn around from what looked like a dreadful prospect to seeing employment come back there and the situation renewed. I applaud that. It is a very good provision.
Including liquidators in the definitions is really important as well. That is under section 4, the amendment of the definition of "responsible person". Unfortunately, employees are not high enough in the food chain when it comes to ensuring the distribution of assets. As a result, we have the backup of the fund that will meet the payments to employees in the event that there is no money in a company. Unfortunately, however, employees whose lives depend on this, who are paying rent or mortgages and who suddenly find themselves in this terrible situation with perhaps only 30 days' notice need to be considered and accommodated.
I also applaud that.
There has been great engagement. We need an information campaign. I am not sure that employers understand this area. My experience of them is that when they reach the stage of collective redundancy, they state what they are facing is awful and ask what they must do, what money is in the bank and how they will deal with the matter but do not necessarily understand it. While the WRC website is a really good resource, not everybody thinks of looking at it. In the information the CRO sends to directors, it would be no harm in having information directing people to the WRC website. The rights of employees should also be communicated to them. If an employee files a claim on the WRC website, there are many drop-down menus and such things. It would be good to have in an employer handbook an obligation of notification, perhaps achievable by a statutory instrument at some point in the future.
While the Minister of State is here, and given that the WRC is her gig, there are two more points I would like to raise. Making a claim on the WRC website involves something of an impediment in that Adobe is required. If people do not have Adobe, they are directed to a website to download it. I am aware that there are people who have to resort to phoning the WRC or the likes of me in the hope of making the system a little more accessible. If they do not have access to the required format, it is a little difficult. Maybe this could be addressed or just looked into to ensure the system is accessible to everyone. There was a time when people could just download the form but we want to move away from that because the current system is much more efficient. It is incredibly efficient.
In some instances, there can be long waiting times for decisions in the WRC. Over the past year, people in my sphere have had to write to the director to ask where the decision is and state they have been waiting a long time for it. In one instance, we were waiting for two years for a decision. Perhaps this could also be addressed.
There are other matters I will raise privately with the Minister of State. I congratulate her and commend her on this legislation. It is very good and brings the law up to date. There has been good consultation and the work has been done very professionally. I also commend the Department and the officials on that. I thank the Minister of State.
I welcome to the Visitors Gallery members of the Women’s Shed, Newcastle West, County Limerick, who are guests of Deputy Richard O’Donoghue. The Deputy is most welcome and I thank him for bringing our guests to Seanad Éireann today for this debate. I hope they enjoy their time in Leinster House. I used to be their neighbour when I lived in Abbeyfeale, which is not too far away.
(Interruptions).
Deputy O’Donoghue has informed me that a couple of Kerry people are present. No distinguished gathering would be complete without distinguished Kerry people. Best of luck in the drive for five. We did not quite make it in Kerry.
I welcome the Minister of State to the House and congratulate her on her ministerial appointment. I wish her well.
As she noted, the Bill has been introduced in response to the programme for Government commitment to review whether the legal provisions surrounding collective redundancies and the liquidation of companies effectively protect the rights of workers. Following that commitment, there was extensive consultation with social partners, which resulted in a plan of action on collective redundancies following insolvency. It was published in 2021. The plan of action was thorough and wide-ranging and included commitments to introduce amendments to a range of legislative measures in areas of employment law and company law dealing with matters related to collective redundancies following company insolvency; to develop a guidance document to provide clear and accessible information on the rights and remedies available to employees facing collective redundancy following company insolvency; and to establish an independent employment law review group comprising expert stakeholders to help to shape the formulation of policy and legislation to ensure Ireland’s employment law framework remains fit for purpose and adapts to the evolving contemporary workplace. Following the passage of this Bill, all the commitments made in the plan of action will have been met. That has to be acknowledged as fine work by the Government and, much more important, a very positive step for workers.
As Members and the Minister of State will be aware, redundancies put enormous strain on affected workers. Unfortunately, we have seen this in recent years, including in the Debenhams case. I am aware from having spoken to workers in Galway city of how much stress was caused for them and how the case affected their mental health and, indeed, that of family members. Cases such as those of Debenhams and Clerys placed enormous stress on staff and workers. While we can never protect against the closure of businesses in an opening and functioning economy, we can ensure workers have appropriate protection in such cases. The Bill will provide that.
The Bill will further strengthen the rights of workers, such as those mentioned, in future cases, which is to be welcomed. It will ensure greater transparency for workers in the redundancy process and improve the quality of information for and the circulation of information to workers as creditors and ensure remedies for transactional avoidance are more accessible to creditors.
The legislation will expand the avenues of redress available to all employees in a collective redundancy scenario should their employer fail to comply with the rules. The Bill will establish a new statutory employment law review group that will advise the Minister in all aspects of employment redundancy law. This will provide a valuable resource to conduct an ongoing assessment of employment law to ensure it is fit for purpose.
An important and much-needed aspect of the Bill that should be highlighted is that it will not allow collective redundancies to be carried out before the expiry of a 30-day period following the notification of the Minister. This would mean no one would lawfully lose a job immediately, regardless of the insolvency of the business.
I welcome the Bill and believe it will provide an important change for workers in unfortunate cases where collective redundancy following the liquidation of a company is necessary. The Bill will promote the provision of quality information, enhanced participation and transparency for those workers facing a collective redundancy following a company insolvency, and it will also provide for the continued development of employment law in general.
Comhghairdeas leis an Aire Stáit in her new role. I am delighted to have her in the House as a Minister of State. It is a big honour. I am glad to be able to speak to her for the first time in her new role.
I welcome the Bill. It is great. It was a long time coming. Some of it is to rectify Acts that date back to 1977. We are all overly familiar with the sad cases of the Clerys and Debenhams workers, so it is great that we are here today improving things and learning from the mistakes of the past. I thank the staff and Minister for the work they have done on this.
Our economy will look very different in ten years, or even five, driven mainly by the green and digital transitions. Many companies that exist now will not exist in the same form in the near future. We need to think about how we can ensure a clear path to upskilling and reskilling once collective redundancies happen. We need to ensure that as many viable businesses as possible survive these difficult times for businesses.
The Bill is very welcome. We know liquidations happen for many reasons and that they are not necessarily the fault of directors. A review by the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement shows that, in more than 90% of all liquidations, the directors acted honestly and responsibly. These directors are not the problem; it is the remaining 10% that we have to focus on, and the Bill does that.
The Bill allows employees to seek redress of up to four weeks’ remuneration from the Workplace Relations Commission if their employer makes them redundant before the 30-day notification period finishes. It is essential that workers are protected from the worst effects of liquidation and this Bill delivers on that. We also need to act preventatively before redundancies actually happen.
We need to help companies to transition as easily as possible to a climate-neutral position. While there is a range of grants, programmes and supports available to help small businesses to go green, there is a lack of co-ordination between them and the agencies providing the supports. Earlier, I arranged to meet the Minister, Deputy Burke, to discuss how to improve matters for our SMEs through the local enterprise offices.
The Minister of State should consider, as the committee recommended, including more categories of workers, such as apprentices, under the protections from collective redundancies provided in the Bill. If we are trying to encourage people to go into the trades and support the green transition, as I and many others do, we must provide them with protections that are equal to those of other workers. I strongly recommend doing so, bearing in mind that we have to rebuild Ireland and build thousands of homes. If we do not protect apprenticeships, that will become more difficult.
The Bill provides for the establishment of the employment law review group on a statutory basis. This is very important. We are lucky to have this group in Ireland. It is unique as it is not in place in other jurisdictions. It is a model we should follow in other parts of the Department, as well as in other Departments, to provide us with expertise we can draw on. I would like the group to have as a major focus the question of how the green and digital transitions will affect law here and where changes are needed to the workforce and employment law. It should research that. Has the work programme for the next two years been discussed yet and, if so, will the House be updated on it? Will the Minister of State take suggestions as regards topical issues that the employment law review group should consider?
This is an important Bill. It amends the Companies Act to enhance access to remedies for creditors in liquidations and to allow workers, as creditors, to have greater access to information regarding liquidation. It also lowers the threshold required by the court to order a related company to contribute to the debts of the company being wound up.
The bottom line is that everything is changing. It is now said that if a business is not climate-resilient, it will not be financially resilient. It has never been more important to ensure we prepare as many businesses as we can for the future by helping them to transition to a digital and climate-resilient future.
I thank the Minister of State for her work on the Bill and wish her the best of luck in her new role.
I have the honour and responsibility of representing my very able colleague and spokesperson in this area, Senator Garret Ahearn. That is my function today.
I join colleagues in expressing delight in the Minister of State’s appointment. I have known her on the backbenches and worked on a few projects in common with her, most of them to do with the horrific situation in Gaza. In that time, I discovered both her passion for the truth and her absolute sincerity as a public representative. She did not seek to take popular options and I appreciate that. She brings those qualities to the role of Minister of State. I hope to continue working with her in her new role.
I could not agree more with my colleague from the Green Party on apprenticeships. I would like the Minister of State to give that serious thought and to respond on the matter.
What is at issue here is a measure to bring the law and the whole process around winding up and liquidation into the modern world and to put a focus and emphasis on employees as creditors. Modernising the law is crucial. A minority of people engage in malpractice but we cannot have workers become the victims of these people.
The introduction of the Employment (Collective Redundancies and Miscellaneous Provisions) and Companies (Amendment) Bill represents a significant step towards strengthening employee protections and maintaining enterprise agility. The Bill, which is based on commitments outlined in Government strategy, aims to align legislative frameworks with current employment dynamics, and part of that would be the apprenticeship element. Amendments to the Protection of Employment Act underline a proactive approach to collective redundancy situations, requiring responsible parties to engage in consultation. It is vital that everybody is kept in the loop. It will the parties to provide necessary information in a timely way when it is useful, and not be tardy with it, which is also vital, and to notify authorities in a timely manner. That is all critical.
The Bill is broader in scope and includes amendments to the Companies Act 2014, which have the goal of increasing transparency and accountability during the winding-up process. The legislation seeks to foster a fair and equitable environment in a corporate restructuring context by strengthening provisions governing employee rights as creditors and improving oversight mechanisms, which are all worthy and necessary objectives.
The proposal to form an employment law review group demonstrates a commitment to continuous refinement and adaption, ensuring that regulatory frameworks are responsive to changing labour landscapes and international standards. It has to be an evolving and dynamic process where we can adapt to new situations.
The amendment to the Protection of Employment Act 1977, as outlined in the Bill, represents a significant step towards modernising labour laws. The amendment in section 12 to the mode of delivery for notification under the 1977 Act demonstrates a strategic embrace of technology, which is obviously welcome. The shift to electronic means in addition to traditional methods not only improves efficiency but also ensures timely notifications, which are critical for protecting workers' rights. In this way, people will not be able to hide behind some long-winding snail mail or delaying exercise.
The enforcement provisions, particularly in section 7, demonstrate a commitment to accountability. The Bill strengthens employee rights by imposing fines on those responsible for non-compliance. That is a necessary exercise because it cannot just be all carrot. The defence provision in section 7, which mirrors established precedent, takes a balanced approach, protecting against excessive penalties and upholding professional standards. The amendments in section 8 provide an employee with avenues for redress, which aligns with the recommendation for a strong legal framework. The provisions regarding companies and the WRC demonstrate a commitment to equitable outcomes. Furthermore, the proposed fines seek to strike a balance between deterrence and fairness, which should be the principle of all good law. The ongoing dialogue among stakeholders demonstrates a commitment to improving legislative measures to meet changing needs. The amendment on fines in section 11 signals a more nuanced approach to penalties. The distinction between fines for employers and responsible individuals demonstrates an understanding of different contexts and different liabilities in the business landscape, as well as responsibilities.
As discussions continue, clarity on the legal mechanisms for fine recovery will be critical to ensuring successful implementation and adaptability in the face of changing workplace dynamics. It would be interesting to hear the Minister of State comment on that. The fines are no good if they cannot be got, and that is particularly difficult in this context.
The Bill also establishes the employment law review group, which draws on the successful model of the Company Law Review Group. The group's mandate includes a wide range of responsibilities, including monitoring, reviewing and advising the Minister on various aspects of employment law and redundancy procedures. Section 14 outlines these functions, emphasising the review group's role in modernising and improving the effectiveness of employment and redundancy legislation. Section 15 details the review group's membership structure, giving the Minister discretion in appointing members and determining the group’s composition.
They will include workers, employers, academic legal experts and practitioners from bodies such as the Labour Court. It is vital in that context that there are union representatives with regard to employees' rights. This diversity ensures a comprehensive and inclusive approach in dealing with the complexities of employment law.
Section 16 establishes a systematic approach requiring the Minister to determine consultation with the review group twice yearly. This structured framework enables ongoing assessment and adaptation to the changing trends and developments, and so on.
Part 4 amends the Companies Act 2014 by addressing several critical aspects of corporate governance and creditors' rights. One significant change concerns the disclosure of information to employees as creditors. It is critical that employees have every right to timely information that they can use effectively and that this information is not given to them in any slow or other way to put them in a bad position.
Section 20 amends section 571 of the 2014 Act requiring company directors to promptly notify employees and their representatives following the presentation of a winding-up petition.
Section 21 is probably critical in that it authorises the court to consider the notification requirements, which I have been referring to somewhat, on winding-up petitions and the improving and the importance of informing affected parties to participate meaningfully. These were the expressed concerns of the unions in the past about a lack of notification regarding the appointment of provisional liquidators. Unions, workers' representatives and the workers themselves need to know at a very early stage about such developments as they are, in real terms, the big stakeholders apart from the owners. This section proposes empowering the court to direct provisional liquidators to promptly engage with employee representatives thereby increasing transparency, which is so important.
Statements should be issued to employees during company liquidations. Employees should have access to financial information. That is critical. Holding that back from them disempowers them in a huge way. Employees need to know that they are valid creditors and, in fact, that they are the most valid creditors in a number of respects if they have had a long-term commitment to the company. Employees, therefore, need a statement of affairs and need to be clear and available.
In summary, the Bill will modernise the legislation is this area and will keep business moving. The two previous speakers said that the important emphasis should be on preventing the closure and liquidation and trying to restructure. That can often entail the involvement of the workers. We need to try to prevent liquidation but where it happens, we need to protect the workers and I believe we will achieve that in this legislation. It certainly will have my support. I offer my congratulations again to her.
I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach and everyone in this Chamber for their kind words of congratulations but also of welcome to Seanad Éireann. Most importantly, I thank them for their collaboration with this Bill because it is very important.
Senator Seery Kearney brings many skills and expertise in this exact field to the Chamber and I very much appreciate her input and contribution as we continue to shape this legislation. She had two specific asks, which I will deal with in a moment.
Senator Crowe eloquently explained the process of the action plan, the progress that has happened and why that has been so beneficial for workers. I appreciate him putting that on the record. He spoke, in particular, about Debenhams and how constituents of his were affected by it. I fully acknowledge the impact on the Debenhams workers who were made redundant early in the pandemic. The Government always sought to ensure that the concerns of these workers were heard and that the State's welfare, employment and training services responded to their needs.
The Government extends that same responsiveness to all employees facing the difficult prospect of redundancy. The Social Insurance Fund provides a safety net for employees to ensure that they receive statutory redundancy and other wage-related entitlements in situations where the employer cannot pay due to insolvency. These rights were honoured by the State in the case of Debenhams workers at a cost of more than €13 million. In recognition of the exceptional circumstances of that case, in particular, as reflected in the report by the chair of the Labour Court, the Government also provided an additional €3 million fund to support career guidance, training, education and pre-retirement planning for the former Debenhams workers.
As mentioned by Senator Garvey, the vast majority of directors operate honestly and do the right thing. It is important that we acknowledge that. The Senator also spoke of the need to future-proof Ireland and our talented workers, who may find themselves in these understandably stressful situations. I very much feel that this Bill prioritises upskilling people after insolvency and I appreciate what the Senator said about apprentices who I fully value. I completely agree with the Senator that they are key to solving Ireland's housing crisis. I am pleased to confirm that apprentices are covered by this Bill.
On the employment law review group work programme, which she specifically inquired about, we certainly will consult on that and are interested in hearing her views in that regard. That goes for anybody across the Chamber also.
Senator Joe O'Reilly also has a particular interest in apprentices so I hope that he is pleased that the Bill covers that area. He used some fantastic words to describe this Bill such as "modernising", "involving", "dynamic" and "agility" and that is very much what we are trying to achieve in this. We are very much trying to ensure that we are future-proofing companies as we go forward. The strategic embrace of technology, as he said, is very important. He specifically queried whether union representatives would be on the ELRG. I confirm that there will be employer and employee representatives to provide advice but ultimately this will be an expert advisory group and it is a separate entity to the Labour Employer Economic Forum, LEEF. LEEF will continue to remain our social dialogue platform which is absolutely essential.
The Bill is of great importance when we are beginning to see insolvency figures revert to pre-pandemic levels, as expected in an entrepreneurial society. It amends employment, redundancy and company-related laws in a meaningful way.
It is important to remember that workers already have robust legislative protections and safeguards as employees under employment law and also as creditors under the Companies Act. The Bill will further benefit workers of insolvent employers in a number of ways. First, it will further improve awareness and increase transparency for employees of insolvent employers. It will improve access to the mechanisms, which can increase the pool of assets available for creditors and will also provide for the statutory establishment of the ELRG. That will ensure that our suite of employment and redundancy law remains robust and fit for purpose in what we all agree is a rapidly changing world of work.
This legislation is an integral part of the Government's commitment to supporting both employees and businesses in a time of unprecedented change. It is significant legislation that has been developed following several different reports, stakeholder engagements and consultation with the social partners.
I thank members of the Company Law Review Group for their extensive work on this matter and, indeed, their ongoing review of other areas of company law. I also thank the Attorney General's office and those in various Departments who have worked cross-departmentally with my officials on this Bill. My officials have done a tremendous amount of work and I would very much like to thank them. I finally thank those Members who have participated in this debate and I look forward to Committee Stage when we can debate these issues in greater detail.
Before I put the question I welcome Fergal FitzGerald and the staff from ESB to the Gallery. They are most welcome here today and I thank them for keeping the lights on which we very much appreciate. I also thank them for being here for this debate.
Question put and agreed to.
When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?
Next Tuesday.
Is that agreed? It is agreed.
Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 30 April 2024.
Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 2 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 3 p.m.
Sitting suspended at 2 p.m. and resumed at 3 p.m.