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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 2 Apr 2025

Vol. 305 No. 2

Air Navigation and Transport (Arms Embargo) Bill 2024: Committee Stage

Section 1 agreed to.
SECTION 2
Question proposed: "That section 2 stand part of the Bill."

Section 2 relates to the restriction on the transit of military items and dual-use items to Israel in the context of the International Court of Justice ruling and the provisional measures it outlined, which were very clear about the responsibilities of all states to ensure they are not contributing to the risk of genocide and to take all necessary steps to prevent acts that may be committed in contravention of the Genocide Convention. Many right across the world and across Ireland in particular - I know because they have told me - were absolutely heartbroken when they saw Israel renew its bombardment of Gaza on 18 March, killing 400 people in just one night, including 174 children. It is horrifying to think the weapons being used to destroy so many lives may well have been allowed to pass through Ireland.

When we brought this Bill forward previously, we were met with a large number of excuses and evasions. There is no more time for excuses or evasions. Since we first brought our Bill to the Seanad, there have been many more deaths, bombardments and reports of executions, most recently the very worrying reports of 15 paramedics being killed and buried in a shallow mass grave. There have been multiple breaches of the Geneva Conventions. The Government can no longer turn a blind eye. It cannot rely on excuses or evasions and it cannot plausibly look at the massive increases in certain categories of flights seeking exemptions for the carriage of weapons and munitions over the past 18 months, even in the months since the Bill was delayed by the outgoing Government, and say it does not know where the bombs, weapons, munitions of war or dual-use goods with military purposes are likely to land and what purpose they are likely to serve. Ireland's exports may well be contributing the military machinery of the illegal occupation.

As we go through Committee Stage of the legislation and look towards Report Stage, I note the previous Government had indicated it would look at the legal provisions of the Bill and take relevant actions. I am very discouraged to hear that exemptions have continued to be granted. A total of 142 exemptions were granted in January 2025 alone. A total of 1,354 exemptions were granted in 2024. There is one category in which there has been a very substantial increase, almost a doubling since the former Minister, Eamon Ryan, was in the House and far more than a doubling over recent years. I would like to know what actions or investigations the Minister has undertaken in respect of requests for exemptions in this particular category. In 2022, there were 26 requests for exemptions for Irish-registered aircraft operating outside of the State. In 2024, the number had increased to 519. This increase from 26 to 519 can be mapped directly onto the period of time in which Israel has been conducting its bombardment. Indeed, it announced today that it intends further annexation of Palestinian territory. It is not plausible to see increases in these categories and claim not to see a correlation or the risk of one. I do not believe the public find credible the idea that we would continue with business as usual.

We may need to take a step back. To be clear, when we talk about exemptions, the base law in this State is that there should be no carriage of munitions through the State or transport of weapons or dual-use goods that can be used in military machinery. That is the base law in our State. Each individual time a flight carrying such weapons, munitions or dangerous goods goes through our airspace, permission must be granted by the Minister. Each individual exemption is a ministerial decision. We need to bear that context in mind when we see 1,300 decisions by the previous Minister and current Minister allowing weapons to be carried through here, to be carried on an Irish-registered civil aircraft or to be landed at our airports. Each of the 519 Irish-registered civil aircraft permissions that make up that substantial increase resulted from a decision. With this Bill, we are saying exemptions should be the exception and not the rule. Despite this, we have seen 99% of all requests for exemptions being granted. We have not seen any indication from the Government of the safeguards it might apply to ensure none of the weapons on these flights that are the subject of the exemptions it is granting are going to play a direct or indirect role in the appalling actions taken by Israel.

This Bill is particularly urgent now because the United States has promised another €12 billion in military aid to Israel. We know where the weapons are coming from and what they are doing. We have to ask if we are playing a part between the supply of those weapons and their landing on the children of Gaza. As a reminder of what we are talking about, according to UNICEF, 100 children a day have been killed or maimed in Gaza over the past ten days. It would be a useful clarification and would help us as we bring this Bill forward - of course, we want to engage with the Government to strengthen it as we bring it to Report Stage - if the Minister would indicate what measures the Government is taking in respect of these exemptions.

What transparency or guarantees can be offered to the Irish public, because it seems exemptions are being granted 99% of the time as a rule without having due regard for or putting in place additional safeguards concerning the fact that the ICJ has signalled a risk of genocide? I would like an indication from the Minister as to the approach he is taking regarding exemptions. Is there going to be a change? Will it be business as usual?

I very much support the Bill the Civil Engagement Group has introduced. It puts Ireland in line with its international obligations. We would just be meeting standards by passing it.

The permitting of the passage of weapons and ammunition through Ireland is quite disturbing and represents a potential facilitation of the genocidal actions of the Israeli state. Let there be no doubt about that. Senator Higgins has spoken about the mass graves of the healthcare staff. We saw images of them with their gloves on in the graves. We have seen countless images of babies swaddled in cloth being carried by loved ones after they had been killed.

As we know, an aircraft carrying munitions of war over Irish airspace must apply for an exemption from the Minister for Transport. This means the Irish Government may have approved exemptions of aircraft carrying munitions of war that have been used in Gaza and that have been used to kill innocent people and bring terror and horror to an entire population. Can the Government prove this is not the case? Is there evidence that can be shown? If there is none, this State is literally at risk of enabling and fuelling war and killing. Not only is the State facilitating the passage of weapons used in the killing and terrorising of civilians – we all know that and can accept it in this room – but it is also in contravention of the ICJ’s advisory opinion from last year that stated Israel is violating international law and that all UN member states have an obligation to do everything in their power to oppose Israel’s unlawful actions. Enabling aircraft containing military or dual-use items to fly over or stop over in Ireland cannot be described as doing everything within our power to oppose Israel’s genocidal actions. Israel has indeed been acting with total impunity. What have we really done? What have we meaningfully done?

The State continues to allow munitions to be transported through Ireland. While I know today’s debate is not about the issue of the occupied territories, the State continues to completely prevaricate on the passing of the occupied territories Bill. What we are asking for in that Bill and the arms embargo Bill is the bare minimum.

The ICC chief prosecutor has sought arrest warrants for Netanyahu and the Israeli Minister of Defence for international crimes of extermination, starvation and persecution. If the Irish State continues the permit the transportation of weapons, I question whether we are standing on the right side of history. I am very comfortable saying that today because I want to stand on the right side of history. That is why I am very proud to be taking a stand on this issue and supporting the Civil Engagement Group. What will we say to the next generation when they ask what we did when we saw people being obliterated? That is why this issue is so critical.

Only 1% of exemption requests are refused. The Minister has the power to prevent the exemptions. The Government needs to be in line with public opinion on this. The public opinion is clear. The Minister has the power to refuse exemptions, so why are we continuing to potentially allow weapons of pure terror to pass through Ireland?

I remind Senators that we are on Committee Stage and that we should keep our points relevant to the sections we are discussing. Is that okay with Members?

When thinking about why people make decisions on exemptions, even though they may not hold a particular moral position on a situation, and about the actions in relation to discretion or whether we should inspect planes when passing through Ireland, I was quite struck by the Taoiseach’s comments in the Dáil yesterday. In light of the arms embargo Bill and related Bills, those comments really made me think about why the Government may be finding ways to evade making decisions on carrying out inspections. In the Dáil yesterday, the Taoiseach, Deputy Martin, referred to the assertion of the State’s complicity in genocide in Palestine as a great old slogan. He compared the assertion of complicity to a slogan and that really got me thinking about what we understand complicity to mean when deciding on what should go through our airspace.

The Taoiseach also argued that people should focus their attention on the Israeli Government. Again, this was an interesting statement. Of course, he is right. The thousands upon thousands of people in Ireland who have demonstrated and called for this Bill to be passed today, and who are outside the gates of Leinster House each day, are well attuned to the reality of where blame lies regarding Israel’s role in genocide. However, that should not let anyone off the hook. Why is the Government not placing the blame squarely where it lies in relation to Israel?

In my reading last night, I came across material on what people understand complicity to be. Many of us understand allowing weapons or dual-use goods to pass through our airspace to be complicity. The definition of epistemic complicity suggests a secondary agent is epistemically complicit in a principal harm or wrongdoing if they causally contribute to the epistemic harm or wrongdoing voluntarily or non-accidentally. Choosing not to inspect aircraft is non-accidental; it is a decision we make. The definition also states a person is epistemically complicit if they make the contribution knowingly, or culpably ignorantly, and know or are culpably ignorant that the principal harm or wrongdoing they contribute to is epistemically wrong or harmful. Therefore, we are complicit in every sense of the definition in respect of what passes through our airspace or the planes we choose to inspect.

The Israeli Government is not accountable to the Irish people; the Irish Government is. Perhaps it is time the Irish Government focused its attention on the Israeli Government, as the Taoiseach has pointed out, and the active and tangible role it can play in bringing the untold horrors and atrocities to an end. Complicity does not necessarily mean the Irish State is directly responsible for the genocide being perpetrated against the Palestinian people but, through our action and inaction, we are empowering the agitator. Complicity in these contexts means we can be indirectly responsible for the wrongdoing caused by others. We are.

Let us remind ourselves of the sheer and shocking scale of the wrongs. More than 50,000 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza. The vast majority of these are civilian casualties. Over the past 18 months, more than 18,000 children and babies have been slaughtered indiscriminately, and 90% of Gazans have been forcibly displaced. Despite this, the Israeli Government announced today the planned expansion of its military operation and land seizures in Gaza, a few short weeks after it unilaterally broke the ceasefire. Again, the Irish State is complicit.

To hold some sort of moral judgment on the situation in Gaza does not excuse us or absolve us of responsibility. We cannot excuse our action or inaction by stating we are just following orders or, as the Taoiseach implied yesterday, placing the blame where it really lies. We are asking the Government to place the blame where it really lies. In response to Mothers against Genocide and the Palestine protest, the Taoiseach insisted yesterday that we must place blame where it duly lies. He and his Government, however, represent the powers that can actually place that blame, through passing legislation such as the arms embargo Bill today.

In the epistemic domain, complicity can explain why certain individuals or groups share blame for epistemic failures, such as the spread of misinformation or the perpetration of harmful beliefs, or, in the case of genocide, a 70% increase in weapons flight exemptions granted by the State over a decade.

It also includes the 5,667% increase in weapons flight exemptions granted to Irish registered civil aircraft operating outside of Ireland since 2021; the transfer of more than 1 tonne of munitions through Irish territory to Israel on three Lufthansa flights in the last week; zero inspections of exempted flights undertaken in Ireland since 2021; the facilitation of the sale of Israeli bombs by our Central Bank; the use of Shannon Airport by the American military; and unrestrained trade in goods and services with the occupied Palestinian territories. If that is not complicity, I do not know what is. It is very important to use language properly. The Taoiseach does not get to bend the meaning of complicity to absolve his Government of responsibility.

We have obligations under international law, if nothing else. Harm and blameworthiness reach as far as those who know what is happening and do not do all within their means and power to interrupt and disrupt the harm that is caused. While we may not have it all, we still have some power. Causal accounts of complicity do not address moral blameworthiness or intention. Being morally not okay with genocide or the slaughtering of innocent children does not get us or the Irish Government off the hook when it comes to the degree to which we are complicit in genocide. The causal account highlights individuals' contributions to other people's failings and in this context, it is Israel's annihilation of Palestine and its people, the failure of the West to stop it and the absence of principled intervention by the international community to end genocide. It acknowledges varying degrees of culpability, showing that someone can be blameless individually but still be blameworthy due to his or her power, decision-making, interactions or collective responsibility. We have collective responsibility and we are culpable if we do not pass legislation like the Bill we have in front of us today. Whether our Government wishes to recognise it or not, the Irish State bears that culpability, with complicity serving as a fundamental mechanism of vicarious responsibility for the transfer of arms to Israel and, for that matter, the purchase and trade of goods and services with illegally occupied territories. We are leaving a mark, through our action and inaction, that will inform a tragedy to be told for generations to come. I urge the Minister and the Taoiseach to spend some time reflecting on and assessing what it means to be complicit as we do not get to absolve ourselves when we are part of the chain of harm.

The Minister is welcome to the House. This is my first time addressing him since he was appointed to this role and it is good to have him here.

I will start by saying that I have no time for the Israelis and what they have done. I compliment the Irish Government on taking the decision to support the South African case. What is being done by Israel - and I include Hamas and Hezbollah in this - with the slaughter of innocent citizens is unacceptable on any scale. What Israel has done is murder on almost an industrial scale and it is absolutely outrageous.

With respect to the Bill before us, I compliment those of my colleagues who brought it to the House because they brought it with the best of intentions. They brought it to bring the issue to the attention of the Irish people. Anyone sitting in the Irish Senate will have received hundreds of emails over the last few days demanding that we pass this Bill. I would dearly like to be here speaking for the passing of this Bill. However, passing legislation for the sake of it or passing legislation with a title that might indicate that we have some control would be wrong in every sense of the word. We have to look at the wording of the Bill and the things it says. First and foremost, the Bill refers to the transit of weapons through Ireland. Where is Ireland? Ireland is our land, sea and airspace and the passage of weapons through any of those three would be unacceptable. Are we talking about just those aircraft that land and take off at designated airports in Ireland? Is that what we are looking at in this Bill? Are we able to talk about those aircraft that transit through our airspace? It is no secret to anybody in this country that we are incapable of seeing what is in our airspace if the aircraft flying there have their transponders switched off. The Government has taken steps to get primary radar installed so that we will know in the future but, as of today, we have no idea who is up there; none whatsoever.

Second, if there is a rogue aircraft up there carrying weapons or munitions through Irish airspace, how do we get up to it? What control do we have over anything in our sky? The aircraft we have in this country are incapable of flying above 10,000 ft. The bottom line is that we cannot control our airspace and with the best will in the world, the Minister can issue all of the diktats he wants to all the countries in the world and they can simply ignore him because we cannot see them up there or deal with them up there.

The Bill specifies the transit of arms to Israel. What about places like Venezuela or Myanmar? Let us suppose somebody decides to send weapons to Myanmar, to the military junta there. Are they exempt because they are not bound for Israel? If we are talking about the transit of weapons and military equipment to some of these military juntas around the world, then we must include them all. That is the flaw in the Bill. We cannot simply single out Israel because we do not like Israel. At the end of the day, any citizen in this country watching TV at night sees the murder and destruction that is taking place. Netanyahu and his henchmen should be in jail. I have no difficulty saying that. How is the Minister to inspect aircraft that are travelling over Ireland at 35,000 ft? How is that going to happen? It simply cannot happen. Is there any difficulty with somebody sending munitions and weapons to ISIS to be used in Syria or the Democratic Republic of the Congo? Have we decided that only one country in the entire world cannot send munitions through Ireland by sea, land or air? As I said, we can talk all we want about what flies over us but we cannot do anything about it.

I turn now to permission granted by the Minister to allow aircraft to land. Shannon Airport has been a bugbear in this country for so long. In terms of aircraft landing at Shannon Airport, there are two types of aircraft travelling there with military people on board. There are those carrying personnel on United Nations missions who are serving in a peacekeeping capacity somewhere in the world. We are obliged under UN rules to provide landing and refuelling facilities to them and to ensure the welfare of those on board. Soldiers do not travel without their weapons. Their personal weapons are part of their kit and they travel with them. If they need an exemption to land, then they get the exemption to land in Shannon. That is my understanding of the situation. I see no difficulty with that. As a former member of the Defence Forces, I would not hand over my weapon to anybody; it is mine. That is the way it goes, so I have no difficulty with the exemptions.

We are talking about exemptions today but we are actually talking about a macro exemption. We have not broken it down into what exemptions are granted. Can anybody produce a record for me today that Ireland has granted an exemption to an aircraft to carry munitions into Ireland and then to fly on to Israel? Are we talking about those that are on UN missions or those that are rotating? We should be aware of the fact that there is a significant US military force in Europe and they rotate those military missions frequently. Are those soldiers allowed to bring their weapons with them? If they are not, they should be because they are part of their personal kit. If the exemption is for a soldier carrying a weapon that is not loaded with ammunition but is his or her own personal weapon, I do not see how we can object to that. Our soldiers carry their weapons when they travel on aircraft. Some time ago, we had two officers in the Congo and they had to fly home but there was a difficulty with that because they had personal weapons. They could not carry their personal weapons on an aircraft at the time. We have to be careful about what we are discussing.

When we discuss troops flying into Shannon, generally speaking the Department of foreign affairs or anybody who is asked about the transition of troops to Ireland talks about the Air Navigation (Foreign Military Aircraft) Order 1952, the Air Navigation (Carriage of Munitions of War, Weapons and Dangerous Goods) Order 1973 and the 1989 Act. Never, however, do they refer to or cite the obligations Ireland has with regard to its membership of the United Nations. We need to be a little more honest with the public on that. Perhaps that is something the Minister will take up in his new role. As a member of the United Nations since 1955, we have agreed to abide by the rules and requirements as laid down as part of membership. The bottom line is that we have obligations that we must fulfil.

There has been some discussion about Irish-registered aircraft. Ours is one of the largest aircraft leasing countries in the world. Is the Minister telling me that in some way he will be able to put policeman all over the world and that anywhere an Irish-registered aircraft lands or takes off, he will have his inspection teams on those aircraft to check they contain? That is an unrealistic prospect and it simply cannot happen. We have to be honest about what we are saying here. I fully support what we are trying to do, but passing legislation purely so that we can stick it on a flagpole and say we have passed legislation to ban and bar the transition of weapons and munitions through Ireland is simply not good enough.

Regarding the Bill, I would like somebody to expand on its intended outcome with reference to section 2(1)(b) in respect of military or dual-use items where there is a significant likelihood that they could be deployed by the State of Israel specifically by defining the limits and boundaries of the word "likelihood". What is meant by that? It sounds good, but what exactly are we trying to achieve?

I have a huge concern that we are using this House today to try to enact a Bill that will have zero meaning if enacted. It will place obligations on the Minister that he cannot fulfil. It will place obligations on our Defence Forces that cannot be fulfilled under any circumstances. The use of Shannon has been subject to judicial review in the courts in the Edward Horgan case. I worked with Edward and know the honesty of the man and what he was trying to do. Sometimes, we simply cannot enforce what is unenforceable. I may have all of this wrong, and perhaps the Minister will stand up in a few minutes and tell me that I am talking through my hat, that he has a grand plan and that he will introduce the Bill and make the hundreds of people who have emailed me over the past few days happy. .

Not one word in the Bill will save one Gazan, or person in south Lebanon, Israel, Yemen, Syria or anywhere else in the world because we cannot implement what it is saying. I am desperately sorry because I know my colleagues have put a massive amount of work into the Bill. They have lobbied the public and hundreds of emails have come in to support it. It is inoperable and cannot work. We need to go back to the drawing board with the Minister and his Department and see whether we can do something that can be implemented. Can we call on our near neighbours to help us in these cases? Is there something we can do to prevent any weapons from anywhere in the world from going to Israel? I fully understand the situation in Israel at the moment. It sickens me every night to see what is going on. However, at the end of the day there are other places in the world, such as Syria and Yemen, where people are being murdered all day every day by military juntas all over the place. Earlier today I spoke about Iran and the hanging of almost 1,000 people in 2024. We cannot turn our eyes away from the rot that there is in the world, but let us not pass legislation that is inoperable.

Minister, fáilte isteach agus comhghairdeas on your new portfolio.

I want to address section 2. I commend my colleagues in the Civil Engagement Group on bringing forward the Bill. I am proud to support it. Section 2(1)(a) seeks to oblige the Minister not to provide exemptions for aircraft where an application has been made with respect to military or dual-use items destined for the State of Israel. Let us consider the geography involved. Ireland is the largest and busiest air corridor between north Africa, the Middle East and the United States of America. Some 75% of all air traffic between the United States and Europe, north Africa and the Middle East goes through Irish-controlled airspace. Based on that set of circumstances, the vast majority of weapons, munitions and dual-use equipment bound for US forces in the Middle East and for Israel will pass through Irish-controlled airspace. We know that for a fact.

I have a flight radar app on my phone. I can see that, on a 24-7 basis, there are aircraft at 37,000 ft transiting through our airspace carrying dual-use weapons and equipment bound for Israel. The United States has spent something like $300 billion providing Israel with weapons and munitions since the appalling attacks of 7 October perpetrated by Hamas.

I want to put section 2 in a context that Irish people can relate to. If put into a vehicle in order to make a car bomb, a piece of high explosives the size of my mobile phone or a cigarette packet would, when detonated, make the car unrecognisable. The vehicle would have to be sent to forensics to find out the make and model. High explosives are extremely powerful. After the Dublin-Monaghan bombings of 1974, where 34 Irish people were killed and 300 injured, one of the primary questions was where the time-powered unit, explosives and bulk charge had come from. We know they came from British forces. The time-powered unit was one of a standard British army design. The families of the victims of the Dublin-Monaghan bombings want to know where the high explosives and time-powered unit came from, where they were assembled and how they got to Dublin and Monaghan.

More recently, in the inquiry under way into the Omagh bombing, the families of the 29 people who were killed, as well as the unborn babies, and the 220 people injured want to know where the bomb, time-powered unit and bulk charge came from and where it was placed into the vehicle. They want to know through what territory it transited. It came from the Republic and transited north to Omagh, where the vehicle was left. The families want to know from the Government what we knew and what the primary intelligence agency of the State, namely, An Garda Síochána, knew.

The people in Gaza and families of those who have been killed will want to know where all of the high explosives that have rained down on them, killing 48,500 Gazans and mutilating and disabling tens of thousands more, came from. A cigarette pack-sized explosive in a car bomb at the point of detonation generates a heat signal of several thousand degrees centigrade for only a flash. However, those within range of that will suffer horrific burns. A shockwave will pulp internal organs and shatter bones. The shockwave can also cause decapitation and limb separation, which is why we see appalling images from Gaza of infants who have been decapitated being held up. Further out from the point of impact, there will be horrific shrapnel injuries. We cannot see these aircraft flying at 38,000 ft, but that is what they are carrying.

They are carrying the methods and weapons of destruction that cause this suffering and killing in Gaza. Senator Ruane mobilised moral philosophy in terms of the epistemic knowledge of wrongdoing. The first principles of all of the moral philosophers - Plato, Aristotle, Kant - say the thing that makes us human and distinguishes us from other creatures is that we have the capacity to do what is right. All of the moral philosophers say that therefore, as human beings, we must do what is right. We cannot be passive bystanders.

Notwithstanding the difficulties Senator Craughwell pointed out, if we can refuse an exemption we should. There is a categorical moral imperative to do so. We can look at the logs chain for some of the weapons that have been transited through Irish airspace. When such a volume of weaponry is supplied, it does not go by surface vessel. It is transported by air because that is the most secure environment in which it can be delivered. The Americans have delivered guided bomb unit mark 39s and mark 84s to Israel. These are 1,000 kg high explosive devices fitted with joint direct attack munition guidance systems. We can imagine what 1,000 kg of high explosives will do in one of the most densely populated urban environments on the planet. What will it do to families who have no shelter other than tents? They might have a thin strip of canvas if they are lucky but they are more likely to use plastic fertiliser-type bags. Not only are these munitions passing through our airspace, and not only are we granting exemptions for the carriage and transmission of these munitions, but under an international agreement, Eurocontrol, we are also paying the air navigation and onward navigation charges. The Irish taxpayer is actually paying for the transit of US military aircraft through our airspace.

Has there ever been reciprocity? Senator Craughwell asked if we would allow the transit of munitions to Myanmar or Islamic State. It would be unlikely because there is no logistics chain that provides for that. In the 1970s we allowed the Cuban military to use Shannon Airport to send troops and munitions to fight in Mozambique. That is not something we should be proud of and nor should we be proud of our complicity in what is happening now at 38,000 ft.

I fully support this Bill. We need to be clear that a genocide is taking place and we know about it. We will be asked what we did and what action we took. There is very little we can do, but this is something we can do. I hope the Minister will support this Bill and it will be enacted. I appreciate the Leas-Chathaoirleach's patience. I thank the Minister for hearing me out.

I thank Senator Clonan. I remind Senators that we are on section 2. I ask them to confine their remarks to that section because we have to go through the other sections as well.

I welcome the Minister. I commend the Civil Engagement Group on bringing this Bill forward. What they have done is a reflection of the way the Irish public are feeling. As a group, it has used everything in its power to try to stop the genocidal horror that is unfolding in front of our eyes. The Government is way out of step by not listening and doing everything it can to stop the genocidal horror that is happening.

We are here today because the number of aircraft permitted to bring military weapons and ammunition through Ireland or on Irish-registered aircraft has hit a 13-year high, with 1,354 flights sanctioned last year. This represents an increase of 14% in weapons flights in a year and a 67% rise since 2016. There is no doubt that this recent rise coincides with Israel's invasion of Gaza on 7 October 2023 and Ukraine's defensive war against Russia.

All Senators have spoken about how, under Irish law, all aircraft carrying munitions of war over Irish airspace must apply for exemptions from the Minister for Transport. Irish-registered aircraft carrying munitions anywhere else in the world are also required to seek the same permission. To go back to what Senator Ruane spoke about, Department of Transport data shows that exemptions are almost invariably granted when sought. Since 2016, the Department has refused just 1% of the 9,848 applications, which beggars belief. Through the Department's granting of these exemptions we are being complicit in and facilitating Israel's war on Gaza which has claimed nearly 50,000 lives, almost 18,000 of whom are children.

In April 2024, the UN Human Rights Council passed a resolution calling for an arms embargo on Israel. We need to ensure Irish airspace and our airports are not used to transport weapons. It is time to act. We have all said we want to be on the right side of history. The Irish people want to be on the right side of history. What is happening is inhumane. It is no longer human and it is getting worse every day. Every day we wake up to more killings, bombings and shrapnel injuries. When will enough be enough? We have something, as a Government: we have the power to enact this Bill. The Government has the power to enact the occupied territories Bill, although I know we are not talking about that legislation. This is what Irish people want. Please do the right thing. Please listen to what Irish people want. We received more than 800 emails about today's debate. We can see the protests happening all around the country week in, week out. We have the power and please do not let us become inhuman, complicit and complacent to what is going on.

The Aire would like to address the issues raised up to now.

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Leas-Chathaoirleach agus déanaim comhghairdeas léi as ucht a poist nua. Go n-éirí an t-ádh léi. I thank the Senators and it is a pleasure to be here this evening on Committee Stage of this Bill. The reason this Bill is on Committee Stage is that, as the Senators who sponsored the Bill will know, the timed amendment has elapsed and the Government is not opposing this Bill on Committee Stage. There is no mechanism to do so. There is a significant amount of work to be done.

I will address a couple of issues. I will preface my remarks by saying that nobody in this House - no Oireachtas Member whom I know - is not absolutely horrified by what is happening in Gaza and the West Bank through Israel's disproportionate and brutal actions. Tens of thousands of people have been murdered, have been killed by the IDF. That has been articulated by members of the Government, including the Taoiseach, right the way through, just as it was by the previous Government. It is important that we condemn outright the brutal attack by Hamas on Israel, the savage murder of innocent civilians and the taking of hostages. That also has to be condemned outright. I know all Senators here share my view on that.

I will make one general point. The idea that the Irish State has done nothing, or is standing by doing nothing, is not correct at all. During my time in the Oireachtas since 2007, we have had many debates and discussions, unfortunately, on the problems in the Middle East and in particular with regard to Israel. As a result of the failure of previous peace accords and the failure to move forward with the two-state solution, we are now seeing a situation where it is hardly possible to see what viable Palestinian state could exist at this stage, unfortunately, with these actions still continuing. The Israeli bombardment of Gaza, the continued attack on the West Bank and the continued expansion of settlements are all to be roundly condemned. I have done so and Government colleagues have done so. We have done more than that, actually. The idea from some of the commentary this evening is that the Government has done nothing. That is not correct. We have rightly recognised the State of Palestine. We now have a Palestinian ambassador in Ireland. We joined the South African case when many others thought we were not going to do so. We had to follow process. In my opinion, and I respect all the Senators who have spoken, it is not correct to say that our State is complicit in some way, shape or form. We are not, in my view. We have been really clear and our people have been really clear in our condemnation of Israel's continued bombardment of Gaza and continued grabbing of land in the West Bank.

I will put a couple of items on the record of the House because there have been points made with regard to the increase in exemptions. I am not saying that speakers were trying to link them but there has been a correlation between the events of 7 October and further increases in exemptions. There was the initial Hamas attack on Israel and the completely disproportionate Israeli response.

There has been some correlation drawn about an increase in applications and exemptions. I have looked into the detail of these as well. The applications for exemptions predominantly fall into two categories, and some Senators have mentioned this. They include US civil air operators contracted to carry US military personnel with unloaded personal-issue weapons that require exemption if they operate in Irish sovereign territory, including overflights - that is one major part - at 33,000 to 35,000 ft, and scheduled flights in Europe by Irish-registered aircraft operating outside of Ireland. Senator Craughwell has mentioned, and he is correct, that if you look at Ireland being a world leader in aircraft leasing and the registration of aircraft that could be flying between France and Norway but are registered Irish, exemptions would be sought by some airlines because of the existing legislation that is in place. They are not coming through our airspace in any way, shape or form.

I understand completely the motivations of the Senators who authored the Bill but there are legitimate questions to be asked, such as if this Bill were passed as it is, how we could enforce it. I also note the specific mention of one particular country. We have a regime that deals with all armaments that fly through or land and fly on to other destinations. There is a regime in place, and the Senators know the existing legislation that is in place, but there would be a genuine concern about how this provision, if this legislation were passed as it is, could be implemented. It would put a legal obligation on the State to do something it cannot do.

Something I take very seriously, and I say this as Minister for Transport, having been in the House for one previous debate in this role but also with my other Department, is that any allegations of breaching the law in Ireland on the transit of weapons are being investigated. I take them very seriously. Exemptions are granted in the main and the manner I have said. We have seen the incidence of the carrying of munitions decrease between 2022 and 2023 and it remained relatively static between 2023 and 2024. There was an increase of ten exemptions in 2024 according to the most up-to-date figures I have.

There are other matters within the legislation. People talk about weapons going to Israel. Since October 2023, no exemptions have been applied for or granted for the carriage of munitions of war destined for a point in Israel as such. It is unlikely that the first automatic refusal would ever be implemented based on what I have here at the moment.

There are certainly questions of enforceability and there are other issues. Department officials have looked through the Bill. The former Minister, former Deputy Ryan, my predecessor, sought a timed amendment on this to allow further examination of the legislation. That is under way. I know at this stage the Committee Stage will pass, with Report and Final Stages scheduled for another time. I cannot see a situation right now where the Bill, as currently constructed, could be implemented or supported in its current guise by the Government. I want to be very clear with Senators on that. That is not a criticism of the motivations for bringing forward that Bill. It simply relates to the legality of the Bill, in that it provides that exemptions must not be granted if any of the three conditions provided for are met. These relate to items destined for Israel, items with a significant likelihood of being deployed by Israel, and applications made where items are destined for or coming from a country which exports similar items. There is a lack of clarity and overlapping across different pieces of legislation which could prevent provisions in this section from achieving the intended objective. No one wants munitions. There has been no application for munitions landed in Ireland with a destination point in Israel. We have to be straight and honest with people.

Senator Clonan has mentioned the reality of the size of our own sphere of influence and our own airspace and how one could even monitor and police that. Exemptions are sought from time to time. They are published. Details of the number of exemptions that are granted are published and the refusal rate is published. I have outlined here to the Seanad that we have not seen a significant increase between 2023 and 2024. All of them are looked at. They come up to the relevant section and would be looked at where an issue is flagged. The reason for a refusal would be strongly considered by me as Minister. I see no reason to grant an exemption for any munitions to be transported through Ireland to Israel but there is a reality about how one could actually enforce this legislation if it were passed as it is. The exemptions granted by the Department of Transport relate to access to Irish sovereign territory and do not relate to the final destination of the cargo or its ultimate end user as it is currently constructed.

With regard to inspections of aircraft, there is an onerous regime being put forward. You have to look at the resourcing of any regime such as that. We do have the ability to do that within existing legislative provisions. That has not been invoked. It has not been necessary to invoke that heretofore but the legal framework exists in this country for that very thing to happen should we believe it needs to happen. There is a reality as well, however, that when you look at the exemptions that have been sought, the vast majority of them, generally speaking, are in the two categories I have outlined to the House.

The Bill, as currently constructed, will not be opposed by the Government procedurally on Committee Stage. The Senators have authored the Bill. I understand the motivation behind it but I think it would be next to near impossible to be able to enforce the legal provisions the Senators would be asking of the State. We also have to be honest as to what level of this existing framework really is the level of munitions coming through Ireland that we could inspect, or dual-use items, as the Senators mentioned. We have an existing legal regime. That needs to be used to its fullest and our current legislation does provide for the inspection of civil aircraft where there is an appearance or a likelihood that it will depart Ireland and contravene Irish law. We have strong provisions in place. Where allegations are made, in whatever publications or if Senators have specific information with regard to flights that landed in Ireland and were transporting munitions, they should be brought forward. Allegations that have been already made in the media are being actively investigated.

Where I want to be clear with Senators as well is that the Bill as it is currently constructed would not be, in my view, fit to be passed. It would not, as it is right now, be something we could permit to go forward any further. We have to look at the regime that would have to support the new regulations or the new law that is put in place. There are other items I will get officials to engage with Senators on regarding where there might be some perceived legal contradictions. That is not a criticism. They have looked through it from the previous Oireachtas to now. I can certainly ensure the sponsoring Senators and the authors of the legislation could meet with officials in that regard as well. We can correspond with them and highlight where those points are.

I thank the Senators for their contributions so far. I am sorry to interject; I know there are other Senators who wish to speak. The reason I wanted to speak is that the Minister of State, Deputy Canney, is coming in at 6.30 p.m. for the remainder of the debate. I could only attend for the first hour. That is why I wanted to make my remarks and put them on the floor of the House. As I said, we will correspond further with Senators regarding the items that have already been looked at and where we would see significant legal difficulties with the legislation as currently constructed.

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire. We will now move back to the list of speakers, and the next speaker is Senator Black.

I wish to hand my time over to Senator Higgins to respond to the Minister, if that is okay.

There is a list of other people who have indicated to speak first. Is that okay?

That is grand, a Leas-Chathaoirligh. Go raibh maith agat.

I thank the Minister for being here today, and I will speak to section 2. The intention of this Private Members' Bill is to prevent Ireland from being actively complicit in Israel's ongoing genocide in Palestine. It is not a claim we make lightly.

The International Court of Justice warned us 14 months ago that Israel was plausibly committing the crime of genocide in Gaza. Ever since that ruling, Ireland, as a signatory of the Genocide Convention, has been legally required under international law to prevent and punish genocide and to refrain from aiding or assisting in its commission. Since the ruling was handed down in January 2024, the situation, as we have all said today, has worsened to a degree that we scarcely could have imagined. The ruling came in the third month of Israel's military onslaught on a densely populated territory less than half the size of County Dublin. The death toll, the criminal tactics used by Israeli military, the constant forced displacement of a civilian population and the bombing of hospitals and children living in tents have changed the context beyond any recognised form. There could not be more pressure on us to act decisively and to do so now.

I will give a few facts I heard today. The Israeli army continues its genocide in Gaza and has committed a new massacre in Gaza this afternoon. It conducted an airstrike on the UNRWA clinic in Jabalia in which 22 innocent civilians, including ten children, were murdered. That occurred this afternoon. The people of Gaza are starving today due to the complete Israeli siege of Gaza for the past 32 days. I am talking now about today. Tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians have been displaced again, some for the tenth time since Israel started its war on Gaza. It is outrageous. In the West Bank, the Israeli army continued its military attacks in most areas. This week in the West Bank, 300 armed terrorist Israeli settlers attacked the Palestinian village of Duma in the Nablus area. They burned three cars, destroyed two farms and shot three civilians with live ammunition, including a child. The Israeli army did nothing to arrest or stop the illegal settlers. We cannot guarantee that the technology used to target the most vulnerable civilian infrastructure - hospitals and schools - did not pass through Irish airspace or airports. This underscores the necessity of this legislation.

We introduced this Bill last May. I am deeply disheartened that almost a year has passed since. This equates to hundreds of nights of terror for the people Gaza. It means another year has passed and Ireland remains uncertain about its level of complicity. That is something we have to highlight today.

This Bill is offered as part of the suite of measures required to align Irish law with its obligations under international law, specifically the 1948 Genocide Convention. Under Irish law, it is a criminal offence for munitions of war to be carried on an aircraft in our sovereign airspace. However, under section 5 of the Air Navigation (Carriage of Munitions of War, Weapons and Dangerous Goods) Orders 1973, the Minister for Transport has the power to grant exemptions from this vital legal prohibition and the criminal offence attached to it. Essentially, the Minister has discretion to waive his or her responsibility to ensure the law is being followed on places in Irish airspace. Section 2 of our Bill would make an important change to this provision. Under this section, the Minister would be prevented from granting exemptions on three grounds, namely, if the aircraft weapons carried weapons or dual-use items with military capabilities and were destined for Israel; if it carried such armaments with a risk of being deployed by the state of Israel; and if it was destined for or arriving from another country that has active arms exports to Israel. Under such circumstances, the Minister’s discretion to waive the legal requirement for such weapons entering Irish airspace would be removed. As a result, the legal requirement to enforce the law and seek criminal penalties for those found to violate its provisions would be absolute and guaranteed. Where there is a risk that such munitions could be used to further commit the highest crime under international law, that of genocide and the destruction of the Palestinian people, there can be no discretion. Section 2 is a vital part of this Bill and the bare minimum required to ensure that Ireland meets its obligations under the Genocide Convention.

We stand on the brink of our humanity and we must halt all arms traffic to Irish airspace immediately. We must never facilitate the transfer of weapons that seek to ethically cleanse the people of Palestine. Our survival is intertwined with each other and the choices we make. Every action we take is a step towards freedom for the Palestinian people and each action is vital. It deeply troubles me that our country is involved in the transfer of arms, knowing that these weapons, missiles and bombs will harm innocent people. Failing to do everything within our power to prevent this is the anthesis of leadership and a betrayal of our collective humanity.

This is not the Civil Engagement Group telling the Minister that he needs to do this; it is the entire system of international law, the universal application of human rights and our common and shared humanity. Section 2 must form part of the Bill. It is important that the Minister accepts it to ensure Ireland complies with the Genocide Convention. I commend the section to the House and ask all colleagues for their support.

I welcome the Minister. I support wholeheartedly this practical Bill. Section 2 is practical and will ensure we uphold our obligations under international human rights law. We are at a defining moment for our humanity and what it means to be human. Palestine is currently a mirror to the soul of the world. Somebody said that the revolution will not be televised; well, the genocide is being televised. Anyone who watched "Prime Time" last night will agree with that given what we saw happening in hospitals in Gaza, with children affected by shrapnel screaming in pain. It is tempting for many to look away because it is the easier thing to do, but we must keep looking, watching, witnessing and acting on what is happening in Palestine. More than 18,000 children and babies have been murdered at the hands of the criminal and genocidal state of Israel.

We had the UN special rapporteur, Francesca Albanese, in the House two weeks ago when Senator Black hosted a briefing. Francesca Albanese said that if Palestine is a crime scene, then it has all our fingerprints on it. It is up to us to prove that we are not complicit. Yes, the Government has taken action on this and this House, the Upper House, has a strong history of supporting Palestine. Former Senator Averil Power, for example, had a Bill passed in this House on recognising Palestine. That strong history must be continued. The world order has changed. The US is not the leader of the free world. This genocide is being facilitated by the US financially, militarily and politically and we must not be associated with it. We must act. The State is complicit if we allow arms to be flown through our airspace when we have the power to stop this. In order to stop it, we need to enact this Bill. We need to stop use of Shannon Airport and pass the occupied territories Bill, which is a separate matter.

As Senator Black said, we have an obligation to uphold the Genocide Convention to ensure we are not complicit. The UN General Assembly, in September 2024, called for a halt to the transfer of arms to Israel. In 2024, the UN Human Rights Council called for an embargo on arms to Israel. This is about upholding our international obligations. These arms are being sent to destroy life-giving centres in Palestine, including hospitals, maternity wards and IVF clinics, and the lives of women, pregnant women, babies and men. We can see it every single day with our own eyes. We cannot look away or do nothing. The world must know that the humanity of the Irish people cannot be bought or sold. I utterly reject the premise or any premise that our economic security or the world's economic security is up for sale or for that for economic security Palestinians must continue to die or be obliterated. We need to act. We need to support this Bill. The world must know that Ireland continues to stand with the people of Palestine.

When our children and our grandchildren ask us what we did when this genocide was happening - and they will ask - I hope that we can all turn to them and say that we did not do the bare minimum but, rather, we did everything in our power and were not afraid to stand up and take action. Certainly, I hope we can say that this House took all the action it could take. I wholeheartedly support the Civil Engagement Group and the Bill it has brought before this House.

The Minister of State's colleague, the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, said that every member of Government was horrified by what was happening in Gaza. I hear that, but it is really hard to believe it because the actions suggest that is not the case. The Government's actions suggest that it is actually complicit in the horrors that are happening in the Gaza Strip. This Bill seeks to close one of those loopholes, one of the ways in which this country - the Government - is facilitating the murder of thousands of people in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. The horrors unfolding in the Gaza Strip are horrific, but it will happen in the West Bank next, and anybody who thinks any different is not keeping up with the news.

When I said it is hard to believe that the Government was horrified, while it recognised the State of Palestine, that is supporting Palestine and Palestinians, but it has never sanctioned Israel for anything it has done. There have been no sanctions whatsoever for Israel. Not only is the Government not willing to introduce the occupied territories Bill, it is trying to water it down. Now, it seems it is trying to shelve it altogether. That is completely unacceptable and shows whose side the Government is on. The Government is on the side of Israel. That might sound harsh, and it probably is harsh, but it is the reality. The Government has condemned what is happening in the Gaza Strip, but it has not ensured that there have been any consequences for the horrors that apartheid Israel has unleashed on the Palestinians, and it shows no signs it will do that.

There is a huge disconnect between Irish people and the Irish Government. The vast majority of Irish people support the Palestinians. They support justice because if they know that if there is justice for Palestinians, there will be peace. We do not need to continue to tolerate the supply of bombs by the Americans and the EU. The EU is complicit in the slaughter and genocide. Germany and Italy are huge manufacturers of weapons and have supplied Israel for many years. I do not have the figures, but I know they have supplied significant amounts of weapons to Israel. The EU is complicit, and the Irish Government is complicit in allowing the supply of weapons to kill and murder people in the Gaza Strip. Since 7 October 2023, the United States has officially provided - I have no doubt there is a lot more - at least €12.5 billion in direct military aid to Israel, including bombs, bullets, tanks, planes and everything in between. The only winners out of all of this are the armaments industry, the banks and the establishment.

The number of aircraft permitted to bring military weapons and ammunition through Ireland or on Irish-registered aircraft has hit a 13-year high. With 1,354 flights sanctioned last year, this represents an increase of 14% on weapons flights in a year, and a 67% increase since 2016. Early figures show that significantly more exemptions will be granted again this year. In each of the first two months of this year, 142 flights were permitted to transport munitions of war. It is absolutely unconscionable that any of these weapons of war, whether they come from the United States, Germany or Italy, would pass through Ireland on the way to further genocide of the Palestinian people. My colleague, Senator Stephenson, asked whose side we are on. The Irish Government's actions suggest that the Government is on the side of Israel. That is the sad truth. Israel is ethnically cleansing Gaza and the West Bank, and Ireland and the Government cannot simply stand by and let it happen. Some 18,000 children have been killed and slaughtered, and I suggest it is probably more.

I thank my colleagues in the Civil Engagement Group for introducing this important Bill. I hope that each and every one of us has the courage to stand up and ensure that we are not complicit in Israel's genocidal killing machine. I also thank the IPSC and grassroots activists for their efforts in pushing this legislation. I think everybody in the House received hundreds of emails demanding that we do the right thing, and I hope the Members in this House will listen. There is no doubt that the Irish people stand shoulder to shoulder with the Palestinians, and it is time the Government, as well as the Oireachtas, does the same.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit agus déanaim comhghairdeas leis.

I thank the Civil Engagement Group. I will be supporting this Bill. Yesterday, Senator Cosgrove and I met with Irish Healthcare Workers for Palestine. They have been outside Leinster House protesting for some time now, and have been campaigning and asking us in these Houses to highlight the plight of doctors, nurses, paramedics and other medical staff who are caught up in the conflict in Gaza. Last week, medical workers were found in a mass grave after being bound, gagged, executed and buried in a shallow grave, breaking all international law and with very little condemnation from the international community. The IDF continues to breach all international law in its murderous regime in Gaza and its offensive against Hamas. Caught up in all of this, as all Members have spoken of, are the tens of thousands of men, women and children who continue to be murdered and maimed using weapons and technology provided by Israel's US partners. The Irish medical workers asked us yesterday to use every mechanism possible to bring pressure on Netanyahu and his right-wing thugs to bring about a permanent ceasefire, stop the slaughter, release the hostages and move towards a peaceful resolution. We are further from that than ever now.

This Bill is just one part of Ireland's effort. It is a small part of Ireland's effort, but every effort is appreciated. Again, I thank the Civil Engagement Group for bringing it forward. We need to restrict and stop the military machine to stop the murder. I appreciate the comments by the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, that it is flawed, but we can work together to address those issues. It is vital that we continue every single effort we can to stop the slaughter in Gaza.

I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House today.

I welcome the opportunity to speak on section 2 of the Bill. It is such an important step towards ensuring that Ireland is not complicit in the devastation we are witnessing in Palestine. Some 50,000 innocent people have been killed, the vast majority of whom were women and children. Families have been torn apart, entire communities wiped out and international law has been trampled on. The Irish people have watched in horror as hospitals, schools and refugee camps have been bombed into rubble. We have seen the images of starving children, of mothers cradling the lifeless bodies of their babies and of people being systematically displaced from their homeland.

I spoke of Cavan surgeon Dr. McMonagle last week in the Seanad. He was on "Prime Time" last night, speaking about the surgeries he performed in Gaza. It was horrific to hear his descriptions and see the video footage of the injuries he was treating. One girl, who was only six years old, had to have surgery to remove shrapnel that was lodged in her throat. It was absolutely horrendous.

The Bill is about making a stand against the killing of innocent people. It is about sending a clear message that we will not allow our country to be complicit in war crimes by exempting munitions of war being carried through our airspace. I commend and thank the Civil Engagement Group for bringing this legislation forward. The legislation also speaks to a fundamental principle of Irish foreign policy, namely, our long-standing commitment to neutrality.

Ireland has long prided itself on being a voice for peace and justice on the world stage. With our history of peacekeeping, we have always sought to uphold international law and human rights. However, neutrality is not just about staying out of wars; it is about ensuring we do not enable them. Passing this section of the Bill is a crucial step in reaffirming our neutrality in a meaningful and principled way. Some will argue that an arms embargo is merely symbolic and Ireland is too small to make a difference, but history has shown us that small nations can lead the way. We saw it with the Dunnes Stores workers who stood against apartheid in South Africa. We are seeing it again by way of the provisions of this section. Ireland cannot claim to stand for peace while allowing any form of munitions of war to fly over our airspace.

The surgeon the Senator referred to is Dr. Morgan McMonagle from Cavan town. He is doing excellent work in Gaza.

The Minister, before he left the Chamber, gave oxygen to this legislation, and thank God for that. I oppose the Bill as it is currently written. I compliment the Civil Engagement Group on the work it has done. Senator Black has been a strong voice for Palestine in this House for as long as she has been here. She is to be commended for that. I ask that we suspend Committee Stage and allow the engagement the Minister offered. This Bill needs to be passed but it needs to be revised and broadened out. I fully appreciate the situation in Israel but what about Yemen, Syria and the other countries where genocide is taking place every day of the week? There are men, women and children being killed in all of those countries.

The Senator can bring forward amendments on Report Stage.

Why would we single out one country? Let us look at the practice of bringing armaments through Ireland by any country. It is wrong in every sense of the word. When we offered our unequivocal support to Ukraine, which I fully endorsed, it never came before the Oireachtas to be debated. People talk in this Chamber about neutrality but we have never-----

On a point of order, we are discussing section 2 of the Bill.

Yes, and section 2 is about controlling armaments.

I wish to offer a clarification. Committee Stage has been ordered for two hours this evening. We may finish Committee Stage today, depending on the progress we make within those two hours. This evening's debate must conclude one way or the other by 7.32 p.m. As Senator Craughwell and other colleagues are well aware, if the Committee Stage debate concludes, we move on in due course to Report Stage. There will be an opportunity on Report Stage to put forward amendments not already debated and that are accepted by the Cathaoirleach, if colleagues so wish. That is just by way of clarification. I ask that all speakers be given the opportunity to make their contributions without interruption. If that happens, we may finish Committee Stage this evening, which I am sure is what everybody wants.

I thank the Acting Chairperson for the clarification. I want the Bill to pass but to pass in such a way that it can actually be implemented. All speakers referred to aircraft flying through our airspace. We cannot see what is in our airspace. We cannot get up to our airspace and force rogue aircraft carrying munitions to land in Ireland in order to inspect what is in their fuselage. How can we pass legislation that is impossible to implement? There is an offer on the table from the Minister to work with Department officials to make a Bill that is passable and capable of being implemented. It would be wrong in every sense of the word to try to pass a Bill that cannot be implemented in any way.

That is my point. I do not disagree with any person who has spoken today. What is being done by Israel is absolutely inhumane. We pride ourselves on being a humane race of people and the fact is there are other countries where atrocities are happening every day of the week, and those atrocities are being fuelled by munitions that are transiting the globe. We cannot single out one country, as horrific and all as its actions are. We cannot do that. We, as a country, must protect all human beings. We must have respect for all life, not just the lives of Gazans but also those in south Lebanon and the West Bank and the Israelis who were killed by Hamas and Hezbollah. All those responsible for those lost lives are war criminals, every bloody one of them, and they should all be made to answer for their crimes. There are women and children being killed in other parts of the world by the same munitions, made by the same munitions manufacturers, as those used to kill people in Gaza.

We cannot control what flies through our airspace. Let us try to control what we can control. We can control our airports. I cannot talk about section 3 yet but I will note that there is a problem with inspections. I ask the Minister of State, before we move past Committee Stage, to ensure that his officials engage with the Civil Engagement Group to make the Bill work and be the flagship it should be for the rest of the world. Let us not allow a Bill to pass through because nobody is willing to speak against it purely because supporting it will look good in the newspapers tomorrow and purely because 300-odd people sent us emails and all of them will email me tomorrow wishing me to be damned to hell for what I am saying. We must be realistic about what we are doing. We have to look to bring through legislation that is enactable. We must be able to enforce legislation and there must be a series of penalties for breaching its provisions. I ask my colleagues to step back from the brink. Let us go back and redraft the Bill to ensure it covers all eventualities.

I am very keen for the Bill to pass Committee Stage. The Government has been clear that it will not oppose its passing. We have such a thing as Report Stage whereby people can raise any issues they have. In fairness, the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, indicated there are issues on which he wishes to work and engage with Senators. We will be very happy to engage between Committee and Report Stages to strengthen and improve the legislation. That is how the process works. It does not work by seeking to torpedo Committee Stage while it is in progress. It works by carrying through the proper legislative process.

I hope we will have a very constructive engagement with the Department between Committee and Report Stages. It is important to signal that, in that interval, we also need to see a change in approach from the Government and the Minister. The Bill was designed to highlight issues of serious concern. Correlations are being drawn. There is a correlation in that there is a 14% increase in the number of exemptions. There is a correlation in that those who have been applying for those exemptions are predominantly doing so in respect of flights coming from the United States and Germany, which are the largest arms suppliers to Israel. Those correlations mean we need to see the Government talking about how it will strengthen the system. We cannot have exemptions becoming the rule, as they have been, with only 1% being refused. We need accountability month by month in the period between Committee and Report Stages as to which exemptions are granted, when they are granted and what measures the Government is taking to seek to protect against the very credible risk and likelihood of weapons passing through our State that may be used by Israel in Gaza, especially given what Senator Clonan outlined.

We also need specific answers regarding the massive increase in the number of Irish-registered civil aircraft, from 26 to 519. Those civil aircraft need an exemption from the Minister. Exemptions have been applied for and were granted without question. The massive increase in the number has not been questioned. That needs to be addressed and accounted for between Committee and Report Stages.

I will not engage further on this. Senators may bring forward amendments as they wish. Of course, there are already arms embargoes on Venezuela, and EU arms embargoes on Myanmar. Arms embargoes are not a wild and strange thing. Canada has stopped arms sales to Israel, Italy has blocked the practice, Spain has stopped arms sales, and the supreme court of the Netherlands has cited the exact International Court of Justice ruling we have mentioned when forbidding the transfer of F-35 components. This is not about being on the side of Israel or Palestine. It is about being on the side of international law.

I thank the Minister and the Minister of State, who is here now. I look forward to engaging between Committee and Report Stages. We need to move ahead and ensure that we finish Committee Stage now and go to the next stage.

I understand why people want to finish Committee Stage today. However, my colleagues have been long enough in this House to know that on Committee Stage, we can thoroughly debate each amendment as it comes forward. One can speak as often as one wants, for as long as one wants, to drive home the message, try to convince people of one’s position and have a matter thoroughly debated for people to consider. Members know that when we get to Report Stage, they get to speak once and that is it. Each contributor can speak just once and the person tabling the amendment gets to speak twice - that is it. We do not have the same opportunity on Report Stage to tease out every single issue. Passing Committee Stage today may satisfy the baying crowd outside Leinster House, who have been writing to us all week, but it will not do anything for this Bill. The Bill is flawed, and that is the bottom line. Let us fix the Bill and pass it then. Please God, let us not go to Report Stage, where we will have a very limited opportunity.

The order of the House is that we debate Committee Stage of this Bill today, and if is not concluded within two hours, it will be adjourned. That is quite clear. My hands are tied on that. I am merely pointing out the facts of the situation.

I understand that but-----

We need to also point out that the Senator had the opportunity to table amendments for today. This is Committee Stage. He had a week, so he should not be disingenuous by standing up now and trying to frustrate this process. He had the chance to table Committee Stage amendments for today and he did not do so.

Everybody is entitled to speak on this section, including Senator Craughwell or any other Member of this House.

He is frustrating the process and it is clear for us all to see.

Just a moment. There will be one Chair here. Everybody, as long as I am in the Chair, will be entitled to speak.

If there are no other people offering-----

I would like to respond, if I may.

The Senator can speak on this section.

I wish to respond. There was an allegation made that I am being disingenuous. I am not being disingenuous. The Bill needs redrafting. Amendments would not do it.

Question put and declared carried.
SECTION 3
Question proposed: "That section 3 stand part of the Bill."

Section 3(4)(b) refers to “arrang[ing] for the seizure of any goods on board in contravention of this Act by the Defence Forces”. Let us say, for example, an aircraft is inspected and is found to have goods that are in contravention of the Act. Under what legislation specifically would this action be legally carried out by our Defence Forces? Where in the legislation have our Defence Forces got the authority to go onto an aircraft belonging to a foreign country and seize goods that are in contravention of the Bill, if it passes? What legal basis is there for that? Once again, how will we implement and action the Bill if there is no legal basis for it? Perhaps somebody can enlighten me and tell me what the legal basis is for the Defence Forces to seize anything from anybody on any aircraft entering this country.

We have had much discussion today about aircraft that have been notified or granted permission to fly into or over Ireland. I ask the Minister of State to bring back to this House details of the permissions that were granted, for example, soldiers transiting to EU posts where they are serving, such as United States soldiers who serve in Germany or other parts of Europe and are bound to bring their personal weapons with them. How many of the exemptions granted were actually for munitions to be transited to Israel? Regarding munitions being transited through Irish airspace or Ireland, if they are being transited to Germany, for example, what control have we got over those munitions once they arrive in Germany? We have to be really careful about what we are doing here. We have to mind that we are not trying to enact something that is totally and utterly inoperable.

I thank the Senators. I came in to take over from the Minister, Deputy O’Brien. I have been listening intently and taking notes. As the Minister said, this Bill is not perfect. We need to engage with Department officials and see if we can make it work.

Senator Craughwell asked a question about the application for exemption. The exemptions fall into two main categories. One is for US civil air operators contracted to carry US military personnel with their unloaded personal issue weapons, which require an exemption if they operate in Irish sovereign territory, including overflights or scheduled flights to Europe by Irish-registered aircraft carriers operating outside of Ireland. Exemptions that issued in respect of the latter category increased by 68% between 2023 and 2024. This increased activity began in October 2023. The increase is attributed to operational changes within the airline that resulted in Irish-registered aircraft now flying in areas where the carriage of armed law enforcement personnel is a more regular occurrence.

We will have to delve into the reasons for the increases. This goes back to the point made by the Minister. I take on board what Senators are saying about what they want to achieve. It is important to recognise that. I think we have seen enough of the destruction of human life in Ukraine and Gaza. There are no winners in war. Everybody blames somebody else, but blaming is no good to the men, women and children who are dead. There is a lot of conflict in the world, and we have to make sure Ireland upholds international law. The Government has made statements on the recognition of Palestine, which has to be acknowledged. It did that against a lot of international pressure not to do it. It is important we recognise that as well.

As the Minister said, there needs to be engagement before this Bill goes to Report Stage. I thank the Senators for their input. I know everybody is genuine. We have to try to find something that will work. The biggest thing with legislation is that it has to be effective and workable. If we do something with legislation that is not going to work or is found to be flawed after it has passed, then we will have done a disservice.

Question put and declared carried.
SECTION 4
Question, "That section 4 stand part of the Bill", put and declared carried.
Preamble agreed to.
TITLE
Question, "That the Title be the Title of the Bill", put and declared carried.
Bill reported without amendment.

When is it proposed to take the next Stage?

Report Stage ordered for Tuesday, 8 April 2025.

Does the Minister of State have anything further to add?

I again acknowledge all the work that people have done on this Bill.

I thank colleagues for their co-operation.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar athló ar 7.10 p.m. go dtí 9 a.m., Déardaoin, an 4 Aibreán 2025.
The Seanad adjourned at 7.10 p.m. until 9 a.m. on Thursday, 4 April 2025.
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