SELECT COMMITTEE ON ARTS, SPORT, TOURISM, COMMUNITY, RURAL AND GAELTACHT AFFAIRS debate -
Wednesday, 23 Apr 2008

2008 Annual Output Statements.

Chairman

The purpose of our meeting today is to consider the Revised Estimates 2008, Vote 27 - Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, and an output statement for the Department; and Vote 24 - Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests, and an annual output statement. I welcome the Minister, the Minister of State and their officials.

Under new budgetary arrangements, the select committee must also give due consideration to both output statements. I understand the Opposition spokespersons have already been briefed by Department officials. The Minister and Minister of State will make brief opening statements to which the Opposition spokespersons may respond briefly. I propose that we then go through each programme and corresponding subhead and invite comment as appropriate. It is important that we give an emphasis to the output statements, which is an addition to previous practice. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív)

I understand that translation is available today and am delighted that is the case. I intend reading the opening statement in Irish and will answer questions raised as we go through the Votes in the language they are asked. I thank the Chair and the various spokespersons for the interactive way this process is being dealt with and hope it leads to a better process than in the past.

Tá áthas orm Meastacháin 2008 de Vóta 27 don Roinn Gnóthaí Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta a chur i láthair.

Beidh a fhios ag comhaltaí an choiste go bhfoilseoidh na Ranna Stáit a gcuid ráitis bhliantiúla aschurtha don dara uair i mbliana le cur faoi bhraid choistí an Oireachtais. Ciallaíonn sé seo, ar ndóigh, go bhfuil tuairisciú ar a bhfuil bainte amach i leith na spriocanna a cuireadh faoi bhráid don bhliain seo caite san áireamh sna ráitis agus tá mé ag tnuth leis an gceist sin a phlé leis an gcoiste. Chuir mo Roinn nóta eolais ar an sean chruth ar fáil don choiste freisin agus, go deimhin, reachtáileadh seisiún eolais leis na príomh urlabhraithe ón bhFreasúra chomh maith. Sna cúinsí sin, níl i gceist agam ach ráiteas gairid a dhéanamh anois, d'fhonn níos mó ama a fhágáil le breithniú cúramach a dhéanamh ar na Meastacháin, mar aon leis na clár-réimsi, na haschuir agus mar sin de.

Tá sé i gceist agam tagairt beacht a dhéanamh do roinnt réimse eochrach chaiteachais a bhfuil fhreagracht dhíreach orm fhéin astu - réimsí atá anois, ar ndóigh, leagtha amach sa dóigh céanna sna Meastacháin Athbhreithnithe do 2008. Ansin, scaoilfidh mé le mo comhghleacaí, an tAire Stáit, an Teachta Pádraig Ó Ciardha, a labharfaidh faoi ghnéithe áirithe den chlár forbairt pobal, mar aon leis an gclár i leith mí-úsáid drugaí. Deileálfaidh sé freisin le Vóta 24, a bhaineann le hOifig Choimisinéirí na hÉireann um Thabhartais agus Tiomnachtaí Carthanacha.

Maidir le clár 1, forbairt pobal, tá €183.083 milliún, no 36% d'acmhainní mo Roinne, á leithdháileadh don réimse seo i 2008. San áireamh ansin tá €55.074 milliún leithdháilte don chlár sheirbhísí phobail, mar aon le cistíocht d'fhonn chomhordú ar scéimeanna forbartha áitiúla agus pobail, ar a dtugtar an próiseas comhtháitithe, a fheabhsú. Tá soláthar freisin do chlár giarála RAPID de chuid mo Roinne-se, a dhíríonn ar na limistéir cathrach is mó faoi míbhuntáiste sa tír, agus d'airgead ó chiste na gcuntas díomhaoin chun dul i ngleic le fadhbanna eacnamaíochta agus sóisialta.

Maidir le clár 3, forbairt tuaithe, tá iomlán €109.634 milliún leithdháilte i 2008 d'fhonn réimse tacaí agus clár infheistíochta a sholáthair, a bhfuil sé mar aidhm acu tacú le pobail tuaithe agus iad a chothú. San áireamh ansin tá maoiniú de €21.183 milliún do CLÁR chun tógáil ar an dul chun cinn a rinneadh go dtí seo in athbheochan limistéar tuaithe, mar aon le soláthar méadaithe sa réimse a bhaineann le caitheamh aimsire faoin dtuath, rud a éascóidh roinnt tograí suntasacha siúláin i 2008. Tá soláthar €7 milliún do LEADER, clár náisiúnta forbartha tuaithe, atá le dúnadh i 2008, mar aon le €16 milliún don chlár nua forbairt tuaithe 2007-2013, a bhfuiltear ag súil len é a fhógairt sa tréimhse amach romhainn, faoi réir dhul chun cinn a bheith bainte amach leis an bpróiseas comhtháitithe. Tá leithdháileadh iomlán €50.323 milliún á dhéanamh don scéim shoisialta tuaithe, a chuirfidh ar chumas na scéime seo, atá an-rathúil go deo, leanúint ar aghaidh i 2008. Tá soláthar déanta faoin gclár-theideal seo freisin do Choimisiún Forbartha an larthair agus ciste infheistíochta an íarthair.

Maidir le clár 4, forbairt na Gaeltachta agus na n-oileán, tá leithdháileadh €105.483 milliún chun tacú le pobail na Gaeltachta agus na n-oileán. Cuimsítear ansin soláthar ar mhaithe le raon scéimeanna sóisialta, cultúrtha agus feabhsú infrastruchtúr sa Ghaeltacht, ar a n-áirítear cláir suntasacha teanga-lárnaithe. Leis an leithdháileadh méadaithe €33 milliún d'fhorbairt oileánda, beifear in ann dul ar aghaidh le roinnt mór-thograí infrastruchtúr, ar a n-áiríitear togra €40 milliún do phiara Chill Rónáin, Árainn, an togra oileánda is mó ariamh i stair an Stáit. Maidir le hÚdarás na Gaeltachta, tá leithdháileadh iomlán €40.155 milliún, ar a n-áirítear €17.655 milliún do riarachán agus cláir reatha, agus €22.5 milliún do chláir caipitil, 20% ar a laghad de nach mór a chaitheamh ar thograí teanga-lárnaithe. Ar ndóigh, bhí deis ag an gcoiste le déanaí réimse leathan ábhar a phlé maidir leis an Údarás agus cúrsaí fostaíochta sa Ghaeltacht.

Tá €7.397 milliún á dhíriú i 2008 ar chlár 5, an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn agus a chothú d'fhonn tacú le húsáid na Gaeilge ar fud na tíre. San áireamh ansin tá soláthar le haghaidh Ciste na Gaeilge, An Coimisinéir Teanga agus an tionscnamh um ardscileanna Gaeilge, a fhéachann le cabhrú le soláthar luathaithe do chúrsaí áirithe Ghaeilge sa 3ú leibhéal le freastal ar riachtanais ag teacht as aitheantas an AE ar an Ghaeilge mar theanga oibre iomlán.

Maidir le clár 6, Comhoibriú Thuaidh-Theas, tá leithdháileadh €66.372 milliún chun tacú leis an dá chomhlacht forfheidhmithe Thuaidh-Theas, An Foras Teanga, atá comhdhéanta d'Fhoras na Gaeilge agus Bord na hUltaise, agus Uiscebhealaí Éireann. Tá soláthar freisin do na bearta ábhartha sa chlár PEACE II, ata ag teacht chun deiridh i mbliana.

Ar deireadh, b'fhéidir go mba mhaith le comhaltaí a thabhairt faoi ndeara go bhfuil meicníocht a bhaineann leis na forchostais riaracháin a chur i leith na gclar feidhmiúcháin ar bhonn pro rata luaite i gclár 7, seirbhísí tacaíochta corporáideacha.

Mar a dúirt me ag an tús, beidh me lán-sásta breis eolais a thabhairt do chomhaltaí ar aon mhír gur mian leo san, chomh fada agus a bhaineann sé leis an soláthar sa Mheastachán nó an tuairisciú ar na haschuir sa ráiteas bliantúil aschurtha. Idir an dá linn, scaoilfidh mé le mo chomhghleacaí, an tAire Stáit, an Teachta Pádraig Ó Ciardha. Ar deireadh, b'fhéidir go mba mhaith le comhaltaí a thabhairt faoi ndeara go bhfuil meicníocht a bhaineann leis na forchostais riaracháin a chur i leith na gclár feidhmiúcháin ar bhonn pro rata luaite i gclár 7 - seirbhísí tacaíochta corporáideacha. Mar a dúirt mé ag an dtús, beidh me lán sásta breis eolais a thabhairt do chomhaltaí ar aon mhír gur mian leo, chomh fada agus a bhaineann sé leis an soláthar sa Mheastachán nó an tuairisciú ar na haschuir sa ráiteas bliantúil aschurtha. Idir an dá linn, scaoilfidh mé le mo chomhghleacaí, an tAire Stáit, an Teachta Pat Carey.

Minister of State at the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Deputy Pat Carey)

Mar atá curtha in iúl, labhróidh mé go beacht faoi na limistéir a thagann go díreach faoi mo fhreagracht laistigh de Vóta 27 faoi chlár 1 - forbairt pobal - agus clár 2 - dul i ngleic le mí-úsáid drugaí. Clúdóidh mé freisin Vóta 24, faoina gcuirtear maoiniú ar fáil d'Oifig na dTabhartas agus na dTiomnachtaí Carthanúla.

Allocations under programme 1 - developing communities - include significant funding of €57.44 million for the local development social inclusion programme and €22 million for the community development programme. Members will be aware that the local development social inclusion programme, which aims to counter disadvantage and promote equality and social and economic inclusion, is delivered at local level, mainly by area partnerships and community partnerships. Accordingly, the process of cohesion of the local delivery structures which have been pursued in recent years is of particular significance. Transitional arrangements are in place for 2008. A value for money review of the programme is being concluded. I intend to use the findings from the review to shape the future programme. I am attempting to improve the impact of the spend on the community development programme, initially by giving the community development projects through which the programme is delivered a greater say in determining their support requirements.

Some €9 million is being provided for the scheme of locally based community grants. Some €3.059 million is being provided for the scheme of community support for older people. These important schemes support a broad cross-section of locally based community and voluntary organisations and provide security for our older people. Members will be aware that the funding schemes under the White Paper on supporting voluntary activity, which have provided valuable core funding to the community and voluntary sector over the last four years, ceased in 2007. They have been replaced by a new unified scheme which commenced in January 2008. Funding of €7.7 million is being provided in this regard in 2008. Supports to promote volunteering throughout the country are continuing, with an allocation of €6.288 million in 2008.

I wish to speak about charities regulation. Members are aware that the Charities Bill 2007 passed Committee Stage earlier this year. I signalled at that time that a number of matters require further consideration in advance of Report Stage. I hope that this process is nearing completion and that it will be possible to complete the passage of the Bill through both Houses of the Oireachtas before the summer recess.

I am pleased to have secured an allocation for 2008 of €64.332 million, which represents an increase of 29% on the allocation for 2007, under programme 2 - tackling drugs misuse. This level of funding is to be welcomed as it follows significant increases in previous years. Indeed, the 2008 figure represents an increase of 140% on the 2004 figure. The areas of expenditure covered under this provision include the 14 local and ten regional drugs task forces; the emerging needs fund; the premises initiative for capital works; the young people's facilities and services fund, which will expand to four new towns in 2008; the research programme of the national advisory committee on drugs; and administrative supports for the advisory committee and the national drugs strategy team. Special provision is being made to support the introduction of certain rehabilitation measures on foot of recommendations in the report of the working group on drugs rehabilitation and the implementation of the recommendations of the cocaine report that was jointly prepared by the national advisory committee and the strategy team.

Substantial progress is being made on the implementation of all aspects of the national drugs strategy. The increased funding we are providing will allow us to build on that progress as we develop a new strategy for the next eight years. I emphasise that the €64.332 million provided in my Department's Vote is part of an overall allocation of well over €200 million being provided by the Government, across a number of Departments and agencies, to tackle the drugs problem in 2008.

Vote 24 is concerned with charitable donations and bequests. The Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests are mandated, under the Charities Acts 1961 and 1973, to provide services to trustees of charities and to carry out the intentions of persons making donations and bequests to charities. An allocation of €481,000 is being made available to the office in 2008 to meet salary and administration costs. A separate annual output statement has been prepared by the Charitable Donations and Bequests Office. I understand it has been circulated to members. I am happy to provide any further information members may request regarding the proposed Estimates provisions or the output reporting, as long as it comes under my areas of responsibility.

Deputy Michael Ring

Before I respond to the Minister and the Minister of State, I would like to mention that I am disappointed the translation service is not available.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Is it not?

Deputy Michael Ring

No. It is fine. There is no problem. I am pleased the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, has made it clear he will respond in whatever language questions are asked. That is very fair. I am glad he is willing to do that. I hope the translation service is available at the next meeting of the committee. I will make a few points before we go through the Estimate programme by programme. I welcome the decision to consider the Votes in such a manner because it is better to look at the output and what we hope to achieve for the next year.

I welcome the Minister and the Minister of State to the meeting. The Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs is a particularly important Department because it provides services which affect rural life. It is important that the Minister of State, Deputy Pat Carey, is given the necessary funding to tackle the drugs crisis. Money is also needed for the rural schemes with which the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, has been involved. I wish we had more money for more schemes. I will examine the level of funding that has been made available for each programme. I will comment on the funding that has been gained and lost. I will reflect on the out-turn in relation to what was achieved last year.

I reiterate that this is an important Department. I was a member of Mayo County Council from 1979 until the Government abolished the dual mandate and banned me from being a member of a local authority. During that time, the Department worked well with the county council on the rural social scheme, in particular, in the interests of rural Ireland. The Minister and his Department have worked well to draw up some of these schemes. I noticed the improvement in the roads infrastructure of Gaeltacht areas when I recently spent a weekend in Renvyle, County Galway. Such developments are also evident in Achill, Belmullet and Tourmakeady in my constituency. The kind of progress that has been made would not have happened if such areas were depending on the National Roads Authority or the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, rather than the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs.

Just as the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, understands the problems experienced in rural Ireland, I believe the Minister of State, Deputy Pat Carey, appreciates the extent of the drugs crisis. I recently spent some time visiting drug rehabilitation centres in certain parts of Dublin to see what happens in such places. It may be the case that some of the funding that is made available is not being spent wisely. People in the areas I visited have a good regard for the Minister of State - they feel he understands the problems in their localities. However, they think the task forces which have been established are not actually dealing with some of the problems which exist. Some task forces are not engaging with organisations which are trying to rehabilitate people.

When I visited a group that trains people who are participating in a detox programme to work in a local authority clothing centre, I learned that the group does not receive much grant assistance from the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. I was upset to note that the Dublin City Council, which picks up clothing that could be given to the organisation in question, instead sells it to a private organisation. The Minister of State and his senior colleague have a role to play. If we are serious about tackling the drugs problem, reforming drug addicts, getting such people back into the workplace and into civilisation and encouraging them to have some respect for themselves, we have to help them. The agencies of the State, such as the local authorities and the health boards, have a part to play in that regard. I hope the Minister and the Minister of State will play their part.

When we go through the Estimate on a programme by programme basis, my job will be to ensure that the funds being allocated are being spent wisely and that we are getting value for money. Like Deputy Wall and my colleague, Deputy McGinley, who is Fine Gael's spokesman on the Gaeltacht and the islands, I have a responsibility to analyse the outcomes and targets we hope to achieve this year and ensure we get the best value for money possible on behalf of those living in rural Ireland, who need the services provided by the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. The Department has done a good job over the last few years. I want to ensure that the funding is kept in place and spent wisely. We need to get the best value we can for the taxpayers of this country.

Deputy Jack Wall

I welcome the Minister and Minister of State and thank the officials for their briefing. We have always found the departmental officials more than helpful, whether in regard to the Charities Bill or otherwise, and we are most appreciative of that. As Deputy Ring observed, the importance of the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs cannot be overemphasised. The areas that fall within its ambit encompass issues of social and economic equality as well as cultural matters such as the safeguarding of the Irish language. It is a significant responsibility.

The Minister has said on more than one occasion that rural communities must be protected. However, local authorities seem to be opposed to that. Instead, they want to ensure that people are moved from rural areas and that everybody lives in a village, town or hamlet. There is daily evidence of this in the difficulties one encounters in regard to rural housing applications. As legislators, in support of the Minister and the Minister of State, we must ensure rural areas are protected. They are wonderful places with wonderful people. Rural communities are helpful and constructive towards one another in such a way that they are places where people want to live.

The Department is also responsible for tackling the serious problems that arise in rural communities. The problems with alcohol and drug abuse, for example, were outlined in a previous presentation to the joint committee. The Minister and Minister of State bear a significant responsibility in this regard and we will do everything possible to assist them in their task. We must all put our shoulders to the wheel to ensure the sustainability of rural communities and the retention of the Irish language. As Deputy Ring observed, it is fine if we are not always in agreement on how to proceed. We propose to take a positive and constructive approach and we expect, in return, that the Minister and Minister of State will take our suggestions on board. We will co-operate to ensure we get through today's work as quickly as possible. In the long term, we will co-operate to safeguard rural communities, with a particular focus from my perspective on the concerns of senior citizens.

Chairman

I propose to deal with each of the programmes and the corresponding subheads in turn. Programme 1, Developing Communities, is dealt with on pages 8 to 10, inclusive, of the annual output statement. Subheads B1 to B8, inclusive, under this programme cover community and voluntary programmes, the community services programme, the local development social inclusion programme, community development projects, the RAPID programme, dormant accounts funding and charities. Are the outputs noted?

Deputy Jack Wall

Why is there a reduction of some 8% in the 2008 Estimate for subhead B7, dormant account funded initiatives tackling economic and social disadvantage?

Deputy Pat Carey

This comes down to the slowness of the spend. Some of these projects take time to develop and mature. The drawdown of funding can be slow but there is no reduction in the allocation. We find, for example, that capital projects are slow to move from the initial development stage to completion.

Deputy Jack Wall

I have made the point to numerous Ministers that it may be difficult for a local agency or unit to raise the local contribution required to qualify for a particular departmental grant. I understand this is not an issue in regard to any delay in the drawdown of funds in this instance. In general, however, the Department should ensure that any local contribution requirement in respect of any of its community development projects should be kept to a minimum. In the case of sports grants, for example, it is as high as 20%. If funding is denied because a required local contribution cannot be raised, the entire concept behind such funding falls down.

Deputy Pat Carey

It is a valid point. I am well acquainted with the difficulties experienced by local groups in this respect. In regard to drug initiatives, between the provisions made for RAPID area additionality and so on and other methods of local authority co-operation, there is almost 100% funding for many but not all projects. I am considering the possibility of reducing the amount community groups must contribute in respect of smaller grants. I do not envisage significant change in regard to the dormant accounts funding but we are looking at ways of enhancing the attractiveness of some of the other grants by reducing to a reasonably modest amount the contribution expected from the promoters.

Deputy Michael Ring

Under subhead B1, community and voluntary programmes, the output target for elderly persons assistance was €6 million, but the output was €10,764,000 and the output target for 2008 is €10 million. Will the Minister of State explain this?

Under subhead B7, the local development social inclusion programme, the output target for 2008 for adults in education and training is €10.5 million. Given the rate of unemployment in Gaeltacht areas in particular, should we not be putting more money aside to retrain people for a return to employment?

Deputy Pat Carey

The increase in the 2007 output and the 2008 output target in respect of the older person's grant arises because the drawdown of this grant was originally limited by the existence of an opening and closing date. The scheme is now open-ended, however, and this led to a higher than anticipated drawdown. It remains to be seen whether that surge will continue. It has proved to be an attractive scheme with great uptake among voluntary groups throughout the State.

The output achieved for 2007 under the adults in education and training category exceeded the output target. We have tried to take a flexible approach to funding for training so that groups are encouraged to avail of more training rather than just being pigeonholed to certain periods and for certain purposes.

Deputy Jack Wall

It is my experience that the voluntary groups that organise such schemes do not advertise them sufficiently. Senior citizens, in particular, must be made aware of how to make an application. Can something be done to ensure these schemes are advertised in local newspapers and on local radio? The latter is an especially effective way of communicating information to senior citizens. People often tell me they have never heard of the grants available. We could take better advantage of what is a great scheme by making more people, especially senior citizens, aware of it.

Deputy Pat Carey

That is a worthwhile suggestion which could be considered. Information on all the schemes and forms are available on the Department's website but I would be the first to acknowledge that not every older person has access to the Internet. Community information centres, local partnerships, public representatives, and RAPID area offices are resources used by many groups. All the Department's initiatives and programmes are cross-referenced and reasonably well advertised. I will consider the Deputy's suggestion about making greater use of local media, local radio in particular.

Deputy Jack Wall

Every local radio station broadcasts a programme in which a local Garda sergeant will speak regularly about home security, highlight problems and look for assistance. The Garda Síochána would be delighted to publicise such a scheme.

Deputy Pat Carey

That is a very useful suggestion. In many cases the promoting group includes a Garda member. In areas where there is a community garda presence they are great promoters of schemes. This is a suggestion that could be usefully developed.

Chairman

The output statements are noted.

Deputy Michael Ring

I have a question about the RAPID programme, as well as the CCTV programme. Is there a scheme for the installation of CCTV systems in schools, playgrounds and estates?

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Yes. There are 46. There are 46 RAPID areas; therefore, there is one for each area. As Gay Byrne used to say, "There is one for everyone in the audience".

Deputy Michael Ring

There is a scheme in every RAPID area.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

That is the target. The programme has been very successful. A few years ago the Department installed some playgrounds but they were vandalised. CCTV systems will help to prevent this happening. I do not say that in every one of the 46 areas there will be a CCTV system but the schemes relate to all 46 areas. We make an allocation to allow for estate enhancement. The CCTV scheme was carried out in consultation with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and depended on the number of applications. In each area there was an allocation for a playground and traffic calming measures each year. We put a budget aside and divided it. We gave the strands one and two areas a certain amount and invited them to develop their own plan and do the best they would with the allocation. On the CCTV scheme, a bid was tendered to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

I note one flaw. We deal with the CLÁR areas according to population; therefore, a county with few CLÁR areas will receive very little money, but the reverse is also the case. County Mayo has been kindly treated.

Deputy Michael Ring

It is not fair to County Galway.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

It is not doing too badly but not as well as County Mayo.

We did not have accurate population statistics for the RAPID areas but we now have them. Money will now be given according to a fairer population ratio.

Chairman

We will now deal with programme two.

Deputy Jack Wall

I have a final question. What is the size of the dormant accounts fund?

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Speaking off the top of my head, there is less than €120 million which we have not earmarked. Money has been put aside for programmes but we have not decided on projects; therefore, we are a long way from it being expended. Other programmes have been approved but the money has not been spent. The total sum in the kitty could run into hundreds of millions of euro, perhaps €230 million to €240 million. There is still a good cash inflow. My guess is that at the current rate we are good for five or six years. It was only meant to be good for five or six years when we started but we are still trundling along nicely and the inflows have been good. We were given assurances in respect of post office moneys and new sources of funds such as moneys from solicitors. In the first flush there is always a flush of money. We do not know at what figure the fund will settle. I thought it would settle at a very low figure but, surprisingly, the indications to date are it will still be significant every year. People reclaim their own money every year.

Chairman

Programme two tackles drugs misuse, subhead C, pages 11 and 12. This refers to drugs initiatives and the young people's facilities and services fund.

Deputy Michael Ring

In 2007, 148 action plans were delivered, even though we had targeted a figure of 202. What caused the delay and why was there a shortfall?

Deputy Pat Carey

The regional drugs task force programmes and plans were slower than anticipated in being rolled out due to a variety of reasons. In a number of cases they were slow in being organised. Proposals were slow in coming. In the second half of last year and the first half of this year there has been a move on drawing down funds. At this stage resources to meet demands for work to be funded might not be adequate.

Chairman

The outputs are noted.

Deputy Jack Wall

Are youth cafés included in this section?

Deputy Pat Carey

They will be the bane of our lives.

Deputy Jack Wall

I visited one at the Curragh. It was funded and has been a complete success.

Deputy Pat Carey

I am a great believer in them. Some are funded entirely by the HSE, while others are partly funded by the youth service and the Department. There is an evaluation being carried out by the office of the Minister of State with responsibility for children. We are taking them on a case-by-case basis. There is a youth café in the Deputy's constituency--

Deputy Jack Wall

There are two; the one in Athy is nearly complete.

Deputy Pat Carey

They are proving to be a very successful initiative in providing alternatives for young people. I refer to The Gaff in Galway, The Squashy Couch in Waterford and The Crib in Sligo which are extensive operations demanding significant resources to be assigned to them. When I was in Kiltimagh recently, the Foróige club was talking about its version of a youth café, a space young people want in order that they can listen to music, play pool or talk to each other. It is all of those and everything in between.

Deputy Jack Wall

Are they to be self-sufficient or will they always be dependent on funding?

Deputy Pat Carey

I have never seen any such initiative being self-sufficient; they will always require funding to meet overhead costs. Youth workers, drugs outreach workers, health care workers all must be paid. The Department is the only place from which the money comes.

Deputy Michael Ring

I refer to the Liberties recycling initiative. It is situated in a building that is to be sold. To what programme could it make an application for funding?

Deputy Pat Carey

A drug outreach worker or counsellor has been supported there as part of our ongoing engagement with this local drugs task force.

Deputy Michael Ring

That is right.

Deputy Pat Carey

This type of project forms a key part of the rehabilitation pillar of the national drugs strategy. I am quite familiar with the project and its proposals. The people there are in constant engagement with us on how we can help them if they need to move.

Deputy Michael Ring

I hope the Department will help. I was extremely impressed and I hope the Minister of State and his officials will be able to assist with any problem which might exist with the building.

Deputy Pat Carey

We will. The Deputy raised an interesting problem with regard to the lack of clothing available to it. We will probably need to address this through the legislation on charities. The door to door second-hand collectors have stripped away the collection base. It is a concern of ours. I thought the local authorities would be more prepared to cede ground to them so they would have the raw material which they put to extremely good use.

Deputy Jack Wall

Will the Minister of State explain the projects under emerging needs?

Deputy Pat Carey

New needs arise all the time and we are trying to put in place a flexible programme so that first of all we will be able to address them in the priority areas of local and regional drugs task forces and also in the additional towns of Athlone, Arklow, Dundalk and Wexford.

Chairman

Programme 3, covers rural development and includes subheads D1 to D8 which are detailed on pages 13 and 14 of the annual output statement. Included are the Leader and rural development programme, the western investment fund, the rural social scheme, CLÁR and rural development schemes.

Deputy Michael Ring

Recently, we discussed the Leader programme in the Dáil. Is the Minister any nearer to announcing the new programme? In 2007, the target was to create 200 full-time jobs and 491 were achieved. The target this year is 200. Will we have a major loss of jobs in Leader, particularly when the work is being brought together? Will the Minister comment on how he believes the western investment fund functions, the amount of investment created and the number of people supported? I like to see people supported but I also like value for money.

Last year, the funding obtained by some of the programmes was not spent, for one reason or another. It was a pity this funding could not have been made available to the rural social scheme. It has been one of the best schemes and it has worked. It has given people a new initiative and re-educated them. It has given them a new lease of life and done wonderful community work. I hoped it would have been further increased this year. The rural social scheme is always full and it is a pity it could not have been increased by using the savings made in other programmes.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

The Deputy asked valid questions. We should consider the big picture with regard to what is happening in the Leader programme. The national development plan ran from 2000 to 2006. At the end of 2006, every Leader company had to have made all of its allocations. Those who received money had to complete their projects by 2007 and have the bills in by the end of March this year. With or without a cohesion process, once the end of a national development plan is reached, which will happen again in 2013, approval for projects is ceased and in the following year funding is paid out. Those who received funding do the work and the funding is paid out.

According to the EU, we were one of the first countries to have our national rural development programme for 2007 to 2013 approved, which was done last autumn. Other issues then had to be addressed in terms of getting the final programme together. It is true that because of the cohesion process we lost a few months this year. A complaint was made to the European Union. I took the view that a person or group has a right to make a complaint and rather than not working through a process I decided it was best to ensure we had everything lined up when we advertised the new programme. We are almost there and I hope we will proceed with the programme within the coming weeks.

It does not affect the total amount of money available, which is €425 million. It means that over six years we have three months less to grant the money. Even though the money is three times the amount it was last time, I do not believe the Leader companies will have a problem during the next five years and nine months to get all the money sanctioned by 2013. We will then have a new problem.

As the money is three times the amount it was last time, it should create far more jobs. However, the sanctions have begun to back up and we must get the plans in. This is why this year is an interregnum. We have had a delay because of the nature of the cohesion programme and, perhaps more fundamentally, as we will still be an early starter in the programme it must be asked if it is a good idea to have wind down and wind up periods between rural development programmes or whether there should be a more seamless progression. I raised this matter during previous discussions with the European Union. My view is that the move between the programmes should be more seamless and we must discuss how to avoid delays caused by procedures in 2013 which would mean not getting going again until 2015.

A fair argument can always be made with regard to the western investment fund that if those involved in commercial activities will not fund a project perhaps it is not good enough and should be left alone. Complaints were made that good but high-risk projects were not getting off the ground because the commercial banks were taking too careful a view. Of course these projects are high-risk, that is what an investment fund is all about. Ironically, during recent years the banks were more liberal than they had been previously. Now that the credit squeeze is on again it will be more difficult even for strong projects to get going and the western fund will come into its own.

Last year, funded companies began to generate own income, where people have succeeded and the money is returned to the fund and revolved. The idea was that the fund would be a revolving fund and last year we received back money totalling €2.2 million. We were able to release €6.2 million as opposed to the €4 million received from the Exchequer. When it reaches its full size the idea is that the money keeps circulating.

A venture capital fund is predicated on winners and losers, one wins some and loses some. If one is not willing to take the risk one should not be in a venture fund. If all the allocations were analysed one would find failures. It would be no good as a venture fund if there were no failures. However, we will also have winners and so long as the winners outnumber the failures and they pay money back into the fund to revolve it I am happy. We do not want it to be reckless and I do not believe anybody could accuse the western investment fund of being reckless. It has good procedures.

Deputy Michael Ring

No.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Neither do we want it to get so cautious that people will go to a bank instead.

I know of a case, and I do not believe it is isolated, where approval was granted for funding from the western investment fund but it was not drawn down. However, because it had been approved the banks were encouraged to offer investment. There is no question in my mind but that had funding in this and other cases not been approved the banks would never have come on board. A little competition in the market, in terms of funding, can often act as an incentive to commercial organisations to become involved. Some €27 million has been allocated, which is a fair amount of money. It is a revolving fund in that what comes in goes out again. The total amount approved is €38 million. There is a lag in terms of funds being drawn down. Also, people often do not draw down the funds.

Deputy Michael Ring

What jobs were created and what companies were supported?

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

In 2002, some 122 jobs were created in the BMW region and five were created in the south and east, which includes County Clare. The figures for 2003 are, 740 and 27; for 2004, 640 and 30; for 2005, 812 and 27; and for 2006, 910 and 21.

Deputy Michael Ring

With regard to the CLÁR programme, which is a good programme, will the Minister consider making funding available this year for drainage perhaps through the local authorities and on a pilot basis in, say, counties Mayo or Galway? I have raised this issue previously with the Minister. A great deal of public money is being wasted. While good work is being undertaken in respect of roads, drainage works are not being carried out.

I am pleased that this year, 12 rural recreation officers have been appointed to walkways. What progress is being made in this regard?

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

I agree with Deputy Ring in regard to drainage in a number of areas, including counties Galway, Mayo and so on. One would have to obtain approval from the many organisations involved, including fishery boards and so on in respect of cleaning a river. All of the CLÁR programmes rely on a particular agency taking responsibility in respect of design, work and standards. The real problem in respect of drainage - this has been my experience - is that everybody says it is not their job. I will keep the Deputy's suggestion in mind.

Many people from counties Clare and Galway - Deputy Ring is taking care of the people in County Mayo - have asked me why the OPW no longer mends the pipes or gullies that took the water from the land to the river and are now blocked or destroyed resulting in land becoming flooded. My challenge is finding an agency that will take responsibility for drainage works and seeking permissions and so on.

Deputy Jack Wall

The Minister did not answer Deputy Ring's question on rural recreation officers. What is the position in respect of the roll-out of the rural recreation and rural development schemes?

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

The rural recreation scheme is going well. Taking into account the total picture, we know the number of walking tourists to Ireland is higher now than it was prior to the outbreak of foot and mouth disease, which is a good way of measuring this. The appointment of rural recreation officers has been approved. The Leader companies are now employing people. I cannot tell the committee how many of them have been appointed to date. It is up to each Leader company to make its own appointments.

Regardless of what formal arrangements are put in place, people are human. Most arguments between people do not arise because of legal issues but because one person has annoyed another. In my experience most people will give permission for the development of a walkway. The rural recreation officers will promote walking and resolve issues that arise in that regard. Issues such as a gate being left open can annoy people who often do not know from whom they should seek redress. Rural recreation officers can be contacted about such issues and they will deal with them accordingly.

While most landowners do not take issue with people climbing mountains - this is the case in respect of 90% to 95% of mountains - they would prefer if a stile were installed and gates could be kept locked. Issues such as this can be dealt with by the rural recreation officers under the rural social scheme. I believe this will be a successful measure. Members will be aware that we intend to pay farmers or use the rural social scheme to maintain the walkways. I am speaking in this regard of walkways that have existed for years but in respect of which an argument in respect of maintenance has arisen. This money is for maintenance only and not for access fees and so on.

I walked the Beara Way, parts of which were unnecessarily boggy and needed to be drained and so on. I do not accept that a walkway that is in order on 1 January will remain that way for 12 months. Top quality maintenance is important. Coillte Teoranta, which owns 7.5% of the land, has invested heavily in rural recreation. It has many types of land and walkways one of which is in Cong and runs by an old baronial demesne of a castle. This walkway has been completely tidied up and signs have been erected explaining the archaeology of the site, etc. Coillte Teoranta is also working on development of a wilderness walkway in north County Mayo and has developed land in County Wicklow for scramblers. We are looking at providing Coillte Teoranta with funding in lieu of its putting in place extra facilities including the required personnel to back-up services. Coillte has shown us how forests can become havens. It has done this in the Dublin counties, in County Wicklow and so on.

We have held tentative discussions with Bord na Móna in respect of the midlands in particular. I believe we should utilise cut-away bogs. There are no ecology issues surrounding cut-away bog. Possibilities in this regard may be facilities for scramblers and go-carting. Areas such as east County Kildare developed in a proper manner can be used by young people wishing to enjoy themselves in a controlled space. Bord na Móna, a huge landholder, is very willing to co-operate with us. Getting things off the ground in terms of acquiring resources can be slow but we are making significant progress in respect of our dealings with Coillte Teoranta.

Deputy Jack Wall

I was recently made aware of an entrepreneur who wishes to provide cross-country facilities for hunters and horse racing. Does this come within the remit of what we are talking about?

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Yes. The rural development programme and rural social schemes are in place. Funding is available for rural recreation which does not include walkways alone. Each of the programmes must operate within its own rules. I want the Leader companies who implement much of the work on the ground to take an overall view of matters. For example, a community owned track can be maintained under the rural social scheme and developed under the rural development programme. Clearly, a privately-owned track could not be maintained under the rural social scheme. The idea of bringing the funding for the Leader partnership companies together is that although they might run four different funds and account for each one separately, when they apply the funding they will take a totalistic view of how they can use the various funds to get the maximum result. This is a time of global challenge, particularly with regard to jobs. If we consider what we have available in every county, for example, the opportunity for the horse industry in Kildare, or tourism in west Mayo or Donegal with the lovely wilderness and sea coasts, we have an unexploited resource that could bring in significant tourist revenue that could stay in rural areas. However, we need to put much of the €400 million, plus the rural social scheme funds, into this to maximise the funding and have a quality product. We have the raw material, our land, mountains, rivers and streams.

One thing we should not be is prescriptive. Anything sustainable that does not cause harm or damage, such as walking, trekking, painting on the banks of the canal with Waterways Ireland, and that brings people into the country should be supported. The opportunities should only be limited if a project interferes with other people or is unsustainable. I would like to see much of the funding for rural development, across the three headings, go together in this direction. We must take an holistic view rather than the usual pigeonhole view.

Chairman

We will move on to programmes 4 and 5, both of which deal with the Gaeltacht. Programme 4 concerns Gaeltacht and islands development, subheads E1 to E10. These subheads comprise social and cultural schemes, Gaeltacht improvement schemes, Gaeltacht community and recreational facilities, Gaeltacht housing, services for the islands and Údarás na Gaeltachta.

Programme 5 deals with the promotion and maintenance of the Irish language, subheads F1 to F3. These subdivide as follows: Ciste na Gaeilge, placenames and advanced Irish language skills.

Deputy Dinny McGinley

Cloífidh mé le clár 4 agus clár 5 mar atá luaite. Níl a fhios agam an bhfuil seirbhís aistriúcháín ar siúl. Is mór an trua é muna bhfuil, mar an lá deireannach a bhíomar anseo d'ardaigh mé an cheist seo agus dúradh liom go mbeadh an seirbhís ar fáil as seo amach, go speisialta nuair a bhíonn muid ag plé cúrsaí a bhaineann leis an teanga agus an Ghaeltacht. Is am cinniúnach é seo i saol na Gaeltachta agus na teangan. Tá na tuairiscí go léir curtha ar fáil agus tá fo-choiste comhaireachta curtha ar bun faoi chathaoirleacht an Taoisigh-tofa. Tá aitheantas ann mar sin go gcaithfear rud éigin a dhéanamh má tá muid le Gaeltacht agus teanga a bheith againn.

Ceist amháin ar mhaith liom a chur ar an Aire ná ceist maidir leis An Bille Teangan. Tá na dréacht rialacháin don Bhille sin le síniú go fóíll. An fáth atá an cheist seo á chur agam ná go bhfaca mé fógra san The Irish Times ag lorg daoine le dul isteach sa Garda Síochána. Bhí an fógra i mBéarla, i bPolannais agus sa tSínis. Chuir sé isteach go mór orm nuair a chonaic mé nach raibh fógra ann as Gaeilge. Sílim, b’fhéidir go bhfuil sin curtha i gceart inniu agus go bhfuil ceartúchán sa pháipéar. Ní fhaca mé go fóill é, ach deirtear liom go m’bfhéidir go ndearnadh athsmaointiú. Bhí dearmad déanta in éadan na Gaeilge agus b’fhéidir go ndeachaigh daoine i dteagmháil leo agus go bhfuil an botún curtha i gceart.

Níl na dréacht rialacháin sínithe go fóill. Nuair a bheidh siad sínithe, b'fhéidir go gcuirfidh an rud a tharla inné ina luí orainn arís go bhfuil sé an-thábhachtach go mbeidh fógraíocht ag teacht isteach faoi na dréacht rialacháin sin. Dá mba rud é go raibh an fógraíocht clúdaithe faoi na rialacháin, b'fhéidir nach mbeadh an dearmad nó an botún a tharla inné tar éis a tharlú. Mar sin, sílim go bhfuil géarghá go ndéanfar é sin go tapaidh ionas nach dtarlóidh sin feasta.

Cuirim fáilte roimh aon airgead atá á chur ar fáil sna Gaeltachtaí. Aon airgead a chaitear sna Gaeltachtaí, cuireann sé go mór le bunstruchtúr cultúrtha, sóisialta agus eacnamaíochta na Gaeltachta. Tá áthas orm go bhfuil na bóithre stráitéiseacha ar an liosta i mbliana. Tá géarú nó tarraingt siar ar an airgead atá ag dul do na bóithre stráitéiseacha nó bóithre na Gaeltachta. Táimse ag breathnú ar na figiúirí faoi fomhírcheann E4, scéimeanna feabhsúcháin. Anuraidh tugadh €8.654 milliún, ach i mbliana, níl ach €4.965 milliún dáilithe dóibh. Ní thuigim cén ciall atá leis na figiúirí sin. Is cinnte, má sheasann na figiúirí sin, go bhfuil titim siar mór ann. Dúirt mé cheana gur scéim an-mhaith a bhí ann do na bóithre stráitéiseacha. Tugann sé na ceantair Gaeltachta níos gaire don chuid eile den tír. Chomh fada agus a bhaineann sé le Dún na nGall, is scéim ar dóigh é agus tá súil agam go leanfar ar aghaidh leis. An mbeidh an tAire in ann míniú a thabhairt faoi an bhfuil gearradh siar nó nach bhfuil?

Maidir le scéim na bhfoghlaimeoirí Gaeilge, cuireann sin go mór le ioncam na Gaeltachta i láthair na huaire. I cuid de na ceantair Gaeltachta is é sin an gné is tábhachtaí den turasóireacht ná na coláistí Gaeilge. Ní amháin go mbíonn na daltaí ansin, ach tagann a dtuismitheoirí, a gaolta agus daoine muinteartha leo ann freisin. Feicim go n-íoctar €10.50 in aghaidh an lae le teaghlaigh sa Ghaeltacht in aghaidh gach dalta. Cén uair ar tugadh an t-ardú deireanach agus an bhfuil sé beartaithe aon ardú a thabhairt gan mhoill? Tá a fhios ag gach duine go bhfuil an costas maireachtála ag dul in airde, thart ar 5%, ach tá bia agus cothú ag éirí níos airde fós.

Cuirim fáilte mór roimh na scéimeanna feabhsúcháin, go háirithe na muiroibreacha. Maidir leis na seirbhísí do na hoileáin, chuir mé fáilte an tseachtain seo caite roimh an fordheontas atá á thabhairt, ní amháin chun paisinéirí a thabhairt isteach chun na hoileáin ach chun lastais a thabhairt isteach chomh maith. Cuirim fáilte roimh an breis agus €50,000 a chuireadh ar fáil le lastais a thabhairt go hOileán Thóraí faoi dhó sa mhí. Tá costas mór le teach a thógáil ar oileán. Aithníonn an Roinn é sin agus tá an deontas do thithe níos airde ar na hoileáin ná ar an mórthír. An t-aon ghearán atá agam, más féidir gearán a thabhairt air, ná cén fáth nach gcuirfear an tseirbhís chéanna ar fáil d'oileáin eile cosúil le, mar shampla, Inis Bó Finne, áit a bhfuil forbairt ag dul ar aghaidh. Cuir i gcás freisin, Oileán Gabhla, inar bhfuil aibhléis agus uisce curtha ar fáil agus inar bhfuil tithe a dtógáil ann. Cén fáth nach gcuirfidh an tAire deontais mar sin ar fáil do na hoileáin bheaga eile ar an chósta?

Maidir le muiroibreacha, feicim go bhfuil ardú ar fáil i mbliana ó €783,000 go dtí €868,000. Ní thógfaidh an Chathaoirleach nó an tAire orm é má luaim arís an ché ag Inis Bó Finne agus an balla cosanta i dTóraí. Tuigim go bhfuil an tAire ag tabhairt thosaíochta i láthair na huaire don aerstráice ar Oileán Thóraí agus aontaím gur ceart airgead a chaitheamh ar sin, mar tá sin tábhachtach. Is rud amháin é aerstráice, ach má tá na tithe ag titim isteach san fharraige, cé acu is tábhachtaí, an balla cosanta nó an aerstráice?

Cuirim fáilte roimh an t-ardú atá tugtha don Choimisinéir Teangan. Tá sár obair á dhéanamh aige. Gach bliain nuair a chuireann sé an tuarascáil bhliantúil ar fáil, bíonn tuairimí dhearfacha ann. Sílim gur fiú tacaíocht a thabhairt dó. Tá sé ag tabhairt treoir dúinn uilig, go mórmhór i gcomhthéacs easnamh ar bith atá ann. Bhí sé mar a gcéanna i mbliana. Mar shampla, léirigh sé go bhfuil 27 siollabas ar chúrsa na hardteistiméireachta nach bhfuil aistrithe isteach i nGaeilge ag an Roinn Oideachais agus Eolaíochta, rud nárbh fhios dom roimhe sin. Níor dúradh linn le blianta nach raibh an bunbhíobla dos na hábhair ar fáil. Ní amháin go gcuireann sé sin isteach ar na daltaí, ach cuireann sé isteach ar na múinteoirí agus na ceartaitheoirí freisin. Is é an phointe atá á dhéanamh agam ná gur fiú gach tacaíocht is féidir a thabhairt d'Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiúla 2003.

Chairman

I can inform members that a simultaneous translation service is now available.

Deputy Dinny McGinley

Cuirim fáilte roimhe sin.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Tá sé sin tábhachtach. B'fhéidir gur cuimhin le daoine a bhí mar urlabhraithe sa Dáil deiridh gur thóg mé na dréacht-rialacháin isteach ag cruinniú den gcomhchoiste i mí Eanáir na bliana seo caite. Pléadh iad ag an gcruinniú sin. Mhol an Seanadóir Ó Tuathail gur chóir dúinn comhairle a thabhairt dos na forais Stáit ar fad lena mbaineann na rialacháin maidir le comharthaíocht. Rinneamar é sin agus fuaireamar aisfhreagra uathu. Bhíomar réidh an fómhar seo caite. De bharr gur iarradh orm an dul i gcomhairle sin a dhéanamh ag an gcoiste, bhí fonn orm teacht ar ais go dtí an choiste sula shíneoinn iad, mar cúirtéis. Is é a bhí i gceist agam ná eolas a thabhairt dos na gcomhaltaí mar gheall ar céard a dúirt na comhlachtaí poiblí ar fad agus cén leasú atáimid ag déanamh nó nach bhfuilimid ag déanamh, bunaithe ar na haighneachtaí éagsúla a fuaireamar.

De réir mar a thuig mé é, bhí sé i gceist ag an gcoiste seo go bpléfimid an aischothú sin inniu. Tá áthrú déanta, áfach, de bharr an gcinneadh a dhein an Taoiseach éirí as a phost an tseachtain seo chugainn, ar an lá a raibh sé i gceist againn na meastacháin a phlé. Ní bheidh aon Airí anseo coicís ón lá inniu - imeoidh an Taoiseach ar an Máirt agus aimneofar na hAirí nua ar an gCéadaoin. Ba mhaith liom teacht ar ais anseo chun iad a phlé. Tá sé i gceist agam aird an choiste a dhíriú ar an méid atá beartaithe againn a dhéanamh sula rachfaidh mé ar aghaidh chun iad a shiniú. Clúdaíonn sé rudaí ar nós stáiseanóireacht agus comharthaíocht, srl. Ní chlúdaíonn sé fógraíocht.

Maidir le fógraíocht, tá mé an-tugtha don smaoineamh dá mhéad atáimid ar fad páirteach san obair seo - is maith an rud é go bhfuil tuaraim ag gach duine - agus dá mhéad scrúdú a dhéantar ar rudaí, is ea is fearr. Ceapaim gur cheart dúinn na himpleachtaí a bhaineann lena leithéid d'ordú, ó thaobh costaisí de, a phlé sula réiteoimid dréacht-rialacháin faoi fhógraíocht. Mar is eol do gach éinne, bhí gach a bhaineann le rudaí a aistriú thar cinn go dtí go raibh orainn é a dhéanamh - ansin thosaigh daoine ag caint ar chostais. B'fhearr liom go bpléfí é sin roimh ré anseo. Ba chóir dúinn scrúdú a dhéanamh ar na cheisteanna a thógfar chun cinn. Caitear chuid mhaith airgid sa Stáit ar fhógraíocht. Ba mhaith liom go leagfaimid na dréacht-rialacháin aontaithe faoi bhráid an Oireachtais, go dtiocfaimid ar ais chun iad a phlé agus go síneodh muid rialacháin faoi fhógraíocht. Tá dhá chéim sa bpróiseas - ar an gcéad dul síos, na comharthaí a phlé agus a dheimhniú anseo, le chead an Chathaoirleach agus an choiste. An dara rud atá le déanamh ná an fhógraíocht a phlé go ginearálta, scrúdú a dhéanamh ar na ceisteanna a ardófar, na dréacht-rialacháin a réiteach, iad a chuir faoi bhráid an choiste agus ansin, má tá gach duine sásta, iad a shíneáil. Maidir le cheist na bóithre straitéiseacha, tá míniú simplí ar an gceist sin.

Deputy Dinny McGinley

Tá súil agam go bhfuil.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Tá. Is é a tharla anuraidh ná go raibh €10 milliún curtha ar fáil le haghaigh feabhsúcháin. Nuair a bhí na meastacháin forlíontach istigh sa Teach sa bhfómhar anuraidh, ní raibh an caiteachas a bhíomar ag súil leis faoi chinnteideal eile ann. D'aistrigh muid €4.65 milliún isteach i bhfeabhsúcháin. Chuaigh formhór de sin isteach i mbóithre. Mar sin, tá mé ag ceapadh gur chaitheamar beagnach dhá oiread an méid airgead a bhí i gceist againn ar na mbóithre anuraidh. I ndáiríre, táimid ag dul ar ais i mbliana go dtí an cineál bun-figiúr a bhi i gceist againn ag tús na bliana seo caite. Chomh maith le sin, tá €2 milliún breise curtha sna meastacháin le haghaidh feabhsúcháin má thógfaimid na hallaí, páirceanna peile, srl., in éineacht leis na rudaí eile. Tá siad roinnte i mbliana ach má thógfaimid an iomlán, tá airgead breise ann. Tá an airgead sin curtha ar leataobh le haghaidh hallaí agus oideachas tríú leibhéal sa Ghaeltacht. Is é mo bharúil ná muna ndéanfaimid rud éigin go sciopaí chun na choláistí Gaeilge a fheabhsú agus a thabhairt chun caighdeán, d'fhéadfadh fadhb éirí amach anseo. Tá mé ag iarraidh a bheith roimhe. Tá na tithe iontach anois. Tá cóireacht iontach sábháilte sna tithe. Tá áiseanna slándála agus chuile shórt sna tithe. Cé go bhfuil cuid de na hallaí cónaithe agus na áiteanna ina mbíonn na ranganna iontach, tá cuid eile nach bhfuil chomh maith. Sílim go bhfuil sé in am againn díriú ar an gceist sin agus a bheith roimhe. Tá na coláistí Gaeilge ar ceann de na háiseanna agus ceann de na rudaí is mó a thacaíonn leis an Ghaeilge sa Ghaeltacht.

Ba mhaith liom caint mar gheall ar na rátaí. Sa bhliain 2006, riaradh €9.50 faoi scéim na bhfoghlaimeoirí Gaeilge. Bhí sé i gceist agam anuraidh go dtiocfaimid go €10 cothrom. De bharr an cheist a d'éirigh maidir leis na rialacháin tine agus an t-antrom a chuir sé sin ar na mná, chuir mé €10.50 ar fáil - chuaigh mé suas €1 in ionad €0.50 anuraidh. Rinne mé ardú dhá bhliain in aon bhliain amháin. Fanfaimid ag €10.50 i mbliana. In other words, fuaireadar an dara €0.50 bliain níos túisce. An fáth a bhí le sin ná go raibh beagáinín brú ar na mná tí anuraidh os rud é go raibh airgead breise á chaitheamh acu. Cé go raibh deontas le fáil, bhí antrom airgeadas i gceist leis na fearais tine. Bhí ar cuid de na mná tí obair breise a dhéanamh de bharr na fearais slándála. Rinneamar an méadú chun cúnamh a thabhairt dos na mná tí.

Tá Oileán Thóraí, Inis Bó Finne, Oileán Chléire agus Inis Toirc i gceist maidir leis an tseirbhís lastais. Is iad sin na hoileáin a bhfuil buan-chónaí orthu ach nach bhfuil seirbhís lastais chucu faoi láthair. Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghlacadh leis an Teachta McGinley as ucht na focail deasa a dúirt sé maidir leis an tseirbhís seo. Tá súil agam go laghdóigh an tseirbhís na praghasanna ar ábhair a thabhairt isteach ar na hoileáin. Chomh maith leis sin, tabharfaidh sé smacht dúinn ar son an phobail ar an méid a chaitheann an Stáit ar earraí a thabhairt isteach. Beimid in ann a rá, má tá fordheontas i gceist, céard iad na táillí. Beimid in ann iad a aontú roimh ré. Is mór an buntáiste é sin d'oileánach ar bith.

Chuir an Teachta ceist faoi na hoileáin gan cónaí buan. Tá roinnt oibrí déanta ar na hoileáin sin. Nuair atá coimhlint airgead idir oileán le cónaithe buan agus oileán gan cónaí buan, tugaim tosaíocht dos na hoileáin le cónaí buan. Bhí blianta ann nuair a d'éirigh linn rudaí a dhéanamh ar na hoileáin gan cónaí buan, de bharr go raibh go leor de na tograí ar na hoileáin sin beag agus nach raibh na tograí móra ar na hoileáin le cónaí buan réidh. Luaigh an Teachta Oileán Gabhla, agus caithfimid airgead ar Inis Bó Finne go deimhin. Is féidir liom a rá, os rud é go bhfuil an méid is mó airgead riamh in aon bhliain caite ar oileáin agam, go bhfuil na tograí is mó riamh ag aon Aire ar oiléain á leanúint agam. Ainneoin an mór-chuid airgead, tá daoine fós ag gearán. Chuala me duine ar Raidió na Gaeltachta ag iarraidh cén fáth nach rabhamar in ann Ros a' Mhíl a dhéanamh in aon bhliain amháin. An fáth atá leis ná go gcaithfimid maireachtáil taobh istigh de bhuiséad - €33 milliún le haghaidh caipitil - atá thar a bheith flaithiúlach. Nuair a tháinig mé isteach sa Roinn, bhíomar ag caint mar gheall ar €1 milliún nó €1.5 milliún. Tá tograí fíor-mhór ar bun againn. Tá an fhadhb chéanna i Ros a' Mhíl is atá ar Inis Bó Finne. Chuir mé gach rud faoi scrúdú bhlian chun cinn. Má tá aon mhoill ar aon cheann de na tograí, is féidir linn athbhreathnú a dhéanamh ar. Faoi láthair, tá a bhfuil d'airgead agam geallta agam. Ar nós gach éinne eile sa tír, caithfidh mé maireachtáil taobh istigh do mo bhuiséad. Baineann an rud céanna leis an mballa ar Oileán Thóraí. Deirtear go bhfuil an balla i mbaol, ach ní shin an tuiscint atá agam. Coinneofar na rudaí sin faoi scrúdú. Nuair a tháinig mé isteach sa Roinn cúpla bliain ó shin, ní raibh na tograí móra ag teacht chun cinn cé go raibh airgead agam i gconaí dos na hoileáin. Is a mhalairt ar fad atá ann anois. Tá i bhfad níos mó airgead á thabhairt dos na hoileáin ná atá á íoc ar hallaí, feabhsúcháin agus cóiríocht Gaeltachta. Tá i bhfad níos mó daoine sa Ghaeltacht ná atá ar na hoileáin. Déanfar gach rud de réir a chéile, ach caithfimid bheith beagáinín foighneach.

Nótálaim an méid a dúirt ag an Teacht McGinley faoin gCoimisinéir Teanga. Ag dul thart ar fud na tíre, tógaim faoi ndeara an obair ar fad atá déanta. Más féidir liom, admhaím an chinnearacht pholaitiúla atá léirithe ag daoine ar nós ceannaire Fine Gael. Tá an Taoiseach nua atá le bheith tofa i gceann coicíse tar éis a dhéanamh soiléir go mbeidh an Ghaeilge go mór chun tosaigh aige. Is dóigh liom go raibh tionchar mór ar phobal iomláine na tíre ag obair na mblianta, ón am inar thógadh isteach TG4 agus Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiúla 2003, srl. Ní féidir meon na Gaeltachta a athrú muna bhfuil meon dearfach i leith na teanga sa gcuid eile den tír. Is cuid den tír é an Ghaeltacht - níl sé scoite amach. Ní daoine faoi leith iad muintir na Gaeltachta. Is gnáth-Éireannaigh iad. Má tá meon dearfach taobh amuigh den Ghaeltacht, beidh meon dearfach taobh istigh. Muna bhfuil sé dearfach taobh amuigh den Ghaeltacht, ní bheidh sé taobh istigh. Ceapaim go bhfuil an dá rud ceangailte le chéile.

Má tá daoine ag iarraidh an ceangal idir an Ghaeltacht agus an chuid eile den tír a thuiscint, ó thaobh leas na Gaeilge de, níl le déanamh acu ach breathnú ar na coláistí Gaeilge. Déanann siad leas dos na Gaeilgeoirí agus don Ghaeilge sa Ghaeltacht. Is rud an-tábhachtach do phobal na Gaeltachta é an coláiste samhraidh. Braitheann na coláistí sin 100% ar daoine taobh amuigh don Ghaeltacht. Tagann na custaiméirí ar fad as áiteanna eile. Taobh amuigh den Ghaeilge í fhéin, ach ar ndóigh freisin ó thaobh na Gaeilge de, is féidir liom a rá go bhfuil an choláiste Gaeilge, b'fhéidir, an rud is fearr a chuaigh i gcion ar dhaoine óga na tíre seo le glúinte fada anuas - siar i bhfad go dtí ré "coiste na bpáistí" san ITGWU. Tá cuimhní iontacha ag go leor daoine sa tír ar an am a chaitheadar sna gcoláistí samhraidh - ní féidir an rud céanna a rá i gcónaí faoi múineadh na Gaeilge. Tá an Ghaeltacht tar éis a bheith thar a bheith tairbheach don phobal ar fad ó thaobh na Gaeilge de. Taispeánann sé sin nach féidir an Ghaeltacht agus an chuid eile den tír a scarúint óna chéile.

Deputy Dinny McGinley

Ba mhaith liom pointe amháin eile a dhéanamh. Rinne mé dearmad trácht a dhéanamh ar Fhoras na Gaeilge. Tá an fhoras ag gníomhú go héifeachtach. Tá an chomhoibriú ó Thuaidh ag dul ar aghaidh. Níl a fhios agam gur féidir leis an fhoras a bheith an-sásta leis an méid atá curtha ar fáil dó i mbliana. An bhfuil sé níos lú, fiú, ná an méid a chuireadh ar fáil anuraidh? An bhfuil ardú ar bith curtha ar fáil? Nuair a thógtar an boilsciú isteach san áireamh, conas is féidir leis an fhoras gníomhú go héifeachtach? Conas is féidir leis a gcuid pleananna a chuir i bhfeidhm muna bhfuil na hacmhainní acu? Cuirim fáilte roimh na postanna a chruthaigh Údarás na Gaeltachta i rith na mbliana. Cailleadh go leor postanna chomh maith. Is fearr don Ghaeltacht an túdarás a bheith ann. Cén dul chun cinn atá á dhéanamh maidir le seirbhís leathanbhanda a chuir ar fáil dos na ceantair Gaeltachta uilig? Tá an-chuid tionsclaíocht agus forbairt ag brath go mór ar an seirbhís leathanbhanda.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Maidir leis An Foras Teanga, táimid 2% siar i mbliana. Táimid mar a bhí muid, beag nó mór, agus níl sin ag tógaint boilsciú san áireamh. Ina choinne sin, le pictiúr níos cuimsithí a thabhairt, tá Ciste na Gaeilge ann. Anuraidh, thosaigh muid le €4.4 milliún dó sin, ach chuir muid €1.7 milliún leis sa Vóta Forlíontach ag deireadh na bliana. Ní chuid den bun Vóta a bhí san íocaíocht breise seo. Mar sin, ba €4.4 milliún a bhí sa bun Vóta. I mbliana, tá €5.3 milliún agam le haghaidh Ciste na Gaeilge, sin méadú. Tá ardú beag ag teacht ar airgead don Ghaeilge.

Níl mise sásta le sin. Caithfimid féachaint ar chiste i bhfad níos mó a fháil d'Fhoras na Gaeilge, ach, ar ndóigh, tá sin ceangailte leis an obair Thuaidh-Theas. Sin an fáth, le blianta beaga anuas, gur isteach i gCiste na Gaeilge a chuaigh an t-airgead breise. Má bhí airgead agam, bhí mé in ann é a thabhairt dó sin agus ní raibh mé ag braith ar airgead comh-mhaoineach ón Tuaisceart. Tá plé ar bun go leanúnach faoi sin. Tá mé ag iarraidh straitéise a oibriú go gcuirfear le hairgead An Fhoras Teanga agus Foras na Gaeilge, go mórmhór ó thaobh an Deiscirt de, ach níl sin ag tarlú i mbliana. Mar sin féin, tá beagáinín breise i gCiste na Gaeilge.

Tá Ciste na Gaeilge tar éis oibriú go maith agus is dóigh liom go bhfuil an rud atá á dhéanamh againn, Gaeilge thar sáile, ag obair thar cionn. Tá sé ag tabhairt deiseanna don chéad uair d'Éireannaigh óga le Gaeilge dul thar sáile, íocaíocht a fháil do mhúineadh na Gaeilge, taithí idirnáisiúnta a fháil agus plé le hoidí Fulbright, rud a thugann an-stadás dóibh, agus ansin teacht abhaile leis an taithí sin. Tá an scéim sin ag obair go hiontach. Chomh maith le sin, go hidirnáisiúnta tá sé ag déanamh leasa don tír. Chuir sé iontas orm le gairid nuair a bhíomar i Nua Eabhrac an méid spéise sa nGaeilge ansin agus an leas atá á dhéanamh ón spéis sin.

Chairman

We will move on to programme 6--

Deputy Jack Wall

Before we move on, I would like to say I listened with interest to the exchange between Deputy McGinley and the Minister about the islands. It is obvious that we all support everything that can be done to provide additional infrastructural facilities for the islanders. The Minister spoke about the children who go to Irish colleges, etc. Many of the parents of children who attend gaelscoileanna, which are now found in many parts of Ireland, do not have the financial means to send their children to the Gaeltacht, unfortunately. I ask the Minister to consider establishing some kind of Irish language summer camp project in areas outside the Gaeltacht. It is a feasible proposition. There are two gaelcholáistí and three gaelscoileanna in my part of the country. I do not doubt that the children attending those schools would benefit if an emphasis were to be placed on an Irish language summer camp. We need to ensure that the progress made during the school term is not lost during the summer period. There might be something in place already - the Minister of State, Deputy Pat Carey, may have alluded to it - but I am not sure. If something is in place, it should be developed.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

There is something in place. Foras na Gaeilge runs a summer camp scheme which is somewhat akin to the courses offered in the Gaeltacht. There are many demands on the limited funding made available to Foras na Gaeilge. People have to make bids if they wish to participate in this limited scheme. It is not as pervasive as I would like. We are looking at a 20-year strategy for the Irish language.

I would like to make one further point about the gaelscoil movement without pre-empting what is going on in Government. I would have made the same point five, ten or 15 years ago. We have to ask ourselves how many children who attend gaelscoileanna use Irish outside school or after they leave school. The logical conclusion we can reach is that it is crazy to invest in gaelscoileanna without following through on that investment by providing summer camps for kids who attend such schools, as well as those who do not. It is important to give children who attend gaelscoileanna a social outlet in which they can use the Irish language. I am trying to address Foras na Gaeilge's financial issues in the plan I am drawing up at the moment. In that plan, I am keen to provide for investment in practical projects such as Irish language summer camps.

I recently heard an interesting comment about a Irish-speaking hiking group which, some years ago, used to head to the mountains from Dublin every weekend. I was told that in later life, many of them married, settled down and reared Irish-speaking families. On the other hand, I understand that many people who met each other in Irish classes choose not to rear their children through Irish. It seems that those who had spent eight hours talking Irish to each other in the mountains found when they got home that they were used to talking Irish. If we are to solve this problem, it is better to provide for total immersion, in the form of summer camps which last for six hours a day, than to provide for classes which last for an hour or two. Other things might be going on which I do not want to know about. If one listens to children on their way home from a gaelscoil, one will probably find they are talking English.

Deputy Jack Wall

It would not surprise me.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

We need to complement the work of gaelscoileanna by providing activities outside school which are run through Irish. It is a question of developing a habit rather than attaining knowledge. Children get the knowledge in the gaelscoil, but the habit needs to be formed elsewhere. I fully agree that if they enjoy playing, working and generally conversing in Irish, they are more likely to use Irish as the ordinary language of communication. It is important for the committee to examine and discuss these matters in detail at some future stage. We need to develop a practical and sensible way forward.

Chairman

For the purposes of debate, I propose to take programme 6 - North-South Co-Operation - and programme 7 - Corporate Support Services - together with the administration provisions. Subheads G1, G2 and G3 of programme 6, which relate to Foras na Gaeilge, the Ulster-Scots Agency, PEACE and INTERREG projects and Waterways Ireland, are on pages 19, 20 and 21 of the agenda. The main costs associated with support services under programme 7 relate to corporate governance and public service modernisation, human resources, information technology, finance, accounts and organisation. Such costs are allocated across the Department's six operational areas on a pro rata basis under the heading of “Support Expenditure”. The administration provisions being made today, under subheads A1 to A8, relate to salaries, wages and allowances, travel and subsistence, incidental expenses, postal and telecommunications services, office machinery, office premises, consultancy services and value for money reviews. If members do not have any comments on these programmes and provisions, I propose to conclude the committee’s consideration of Vote 27 and move on to Vote 24 - Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests for Ireland.

Deputy Michael Ring

We hope to complete our consideration of the Charities Bill 2007 in the Dáil shortly. I assume that legislation will remove the need to have a Vote of this nature in future years.

Deputy Pat Carey

That is correct. I would like to point out to members, in the interests of accuracy, that there is an error in the annual output statement of the Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests, which has been circulated to the select committee. Essentially, the headings on the inputs table indicate that the allocations for 2007 and 2008, and the outturns for 2007, are given in millions of euro. The figures in question are actually represent thousands of euro.

Deputy Michael Ring

Okay.

Deputy Pat Carey

A decimal point went AWOL at some stage of the process.

Deputy Michael Ring

I knew we were not paying the commissioners that much.

Deputy Pat Carey

This heading error is also present in the published version of the 2007 annual output statement, but was not picked up before now. It is important to highlight the error in case there are any concerns about the matter.

Chairman

Are all the outputs noted? Noted. I thank the Minister, the Minister of State and their officials for attending this meeting. I thank the members of the committee for their co-operation.