Select Committee on Enterprise and Economic Strategy debate -
Wednesday, 22 Jun 1994

SECTION 6.

Ms McManus

I move amendment No. 7:

In page 6, between lines 12 and 13, to insert the following subsection:

"(5) The Board shall establish a headquarters and office, wherein and in so far as practical, it shall centrally house its functions and activities and co-ordinate and carry out its functions.".

I am concerned that An Bord Bia will be a "mixem gatherem" from different sources and that staff will be brought in from various bodies and the Department. It would not have a clear basis on which to start without having a central location where the various elements can be brought together.

Under the Bill there would be a danger that people would still be operating from their present offices; in other words, the board would be fragmented and answerable to two masters. There will be confusion and a lack of understanding as to the shape of the board unless it is located in one place. I know that it is stating the obvious but it is important to state it nonetheless, and it is important that the Minister accept this proposal as a positive step to make sure that the board functions effectively from the beginning. Otherwise there will be a dual mandate for people working for the board and an amount of fragmentation which will create difficulties for it. We should give it the best start possible.

Mr. O'Shea

I would like to allay some of the fears expressed by Deputy McManus. On the passing into law of this legislation it is the intention that an interim board will be set up sometime toward the middle of next month. That interim board will be charged with the task of bringing the various elements together. The possibility of An Bord Bia without a headquarters will not happen. The various elements will be brought together. Many technical matters have to be dealt with between now and the establishment day in the context of staff coming from a number of different areas.

I can assure the Deputy that the fears she has expressed will not be borne out. This body will operate from a central headquarters and staff will be coming there as part of the new An Bord Bia. There will not be any residual presence with former employments. I understand the concerns raised but I can assure the Deputy there is no need for them.

Ms McManus

In relation to the establishment day what does the Minister have in mind?

Mr. O'Shea

It would be impossible to answer that question at this time. Obviously, the interim board will be put in place to pull all the strands together and as that develops the establishment date can be named. I can assure the Deputy that there will be no delay. We are as anxious as everybody else to get this board in place and operating to its greatest effectiveness at the earliest date.

Ms McManus

I do not want to press the Minister too hard on this matter but he is talking about establishing an interim board next month. Presumably, the interim board will be given a brief and a time frame. What are we talking about in that regard? I do not expect the actual date but I would like an indication of the time frame envisaged.

Mr. O'Shea

Some of the matters dealt with in later sections, such as conditions of employment and pension rates etc., will have to be brought together. The board will be charged with doing that as speedily as possible. I cannot give the Deputy any indication as to an exact date but there will no undue delay. This will be done quickly.

Mrs. Doyle

I have a couple of problems with this section. The new body to be styled and known as An Bord Bia or the Irish Food Board and will have a name that will imply that its functions extend far beyond what they will be. The Minister has said it is really just a market development body.

Chairman

I am sorry to interrupt the Deputy but we are still on amendment No. 7. There is one further amendment after that and I will then allow discussion on the section proper. Would the Deputy deal with amendment No. 7?

Mrs. Doyle

Would the Minister tell me where the headquarters of An Bord Bia will be located?

Mr. O'Shea

I answered that question in my response on Second Stage, indeed, I have answered it a couple of times in the House. We will ask the interim board as part of its mandate to decide where it is best to locate its headquarters in the interests of the food industry on the basis that the board charged with doing the job should have that right.

Mrs. Doyle

This is a new one. The Minister is passing the buck. If that had applied to other bodies with a decentralisation policy, where would they have ended up if one had let those involved decide where they were to be located? There may be some benefit in the Minister's comments but I think it is just passing the buck. It is uncomfortable politically to stake a claim and state where it will be located. Maybe the Minister's senior colleague lost the argument for locating it in Cork and may prefer to blame the new board for setting it up somewhere else. The Minister should come clean with us. What is this all about?

Mr. O'Shea

Deputy Doyle can speculate all she likes. The board will decide the location.

Mrs. Doyle

Will it choose Wexford?

Mr. O'Shea

We are dealing with An Bord Bia.

Mrs. Doyle

I know that.

Mr. O'Shea

In the context of An Bord Bia, I fail to see how Deputy Doyle can have a problem with a board deciding where, in the best interests of the food industry, its headquarters should be located.

Mrs. Doyle

What about County Monaghan, Deputy Crawford?

Mr. Crawford

Chairman, as the centre of the poultry and mushroom industries, the headquarters of An Bord Bia should be located in County Monaghan. It would be the first decentralised office there.

I have grave anxieties on how the location of the headquarters will be decided. Will the interim board be representative of the people paying the piper or will it be politically appointed?

Mrs. Doyle

Yes is the answer to that.

Mr. Crawford

That is my major problem. If this board is responsible to those who pay the piper and have to operate it and if it is located in the best possible place for the best possible reasons, be it either in Counties Monaghan or Cork, then I would be happy. However, if the interim board is politically appointed — the Bill says that the main board will be appointed in this way — I would have grave anxieties about it.

Mr. Flood

The Minister is in a difficult position. He cannot win no matter what line he takes. If he decides to step in and locate the headquarters of An Bord Bia in a certain place, he will be accused of interfering. He is also being criticised for leaving it to the board to make the decision. He cannot win. The Minister has taken the right decision in leaving it to the board to decide a location. With the passage of time, different organisations and groups, especially those involved in the food industry, will make their views known on the matter.

Mrs. Doyle

They want to be in Dublin and they know it. No one will serve on it if it is located in the country and the Minister is trying to avoid that.

Mr. Flood

If An Bord Bia wishes to locate in Tallaght, it would be more than welcome. We have many consumers in Tallaght; it is a heavily populated area.

Ms McManus

Is there any chance they will get near it?

Mr. Flood

Now the new South Dublin County Council is being decentralised to Tallaght and the new Tallaght hospital is under construction. This would be an ideal location. However, I am prepared to accept the views of those involved in the industry as to where the headquarters should be located. The Minister is right in leaving the decision to the board.

There was a previous discussion on locating a headquarters in a specific place at the direction of the appropriate Minister and the Minister at the time came in for some criticism. It should be left to the board to make the decision in the interest of the industry.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr. O'Shea

I move amendment No. 8:

In page 6, subsection (5), line 14, after "dissolved" to insert "and the Córas Beóstoic agus Feola Act, 1979, section 52 of the Abattoirs Act, 1988, and the Córas Beostoic agus Feola (Amendment) Act, 1988, are hereby repealed with effect from that day".

This amendment is necessary because the Bill dissolves Córas Beóstoic agus Feola, or CBF and it follows that the two CBF Acts of 1979 and 1988 should be repealed. Section 52 of the Abattoirs Act, 1988, amends the 1979 CBF Act and, therefore, will also have to be repealed. This is a tidying up exercise so that legislation that is no longer relevant is not left on the Statute Book.

Amendment agreed to.

Question proposed: "That section 6, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

Mrs. Doyle

I did not understand the Minister's comments on residual presence with former employments. Maybe he could explain it in his initial response to Deputy McManus.

Mr. O'Shea

I took what Deputy McManus was saying to mean that people from An Bord Tráchtála and Córas Beóstoic agus Feola could remain in their old premises. There will be a building to accommodate all An Bord Bia staff.

Mrs. Doyle

The title "An Bord Bia" is a gross misnomer. The Minister admits that market development will be the only function of this new board; that is the only effective role I can see it having. The titles "An Bord Bia", "The Food Board" or "The Irish Food Board" would give the impression that it was one major body that would have all Irish food producers and processors under its aegis and one national body, a sort of green food board for Ireland, that would fly the flag for our entire food sector. Approximately half of our food sector will come under the marketing development umbrella of this new board. None in the fisheries sector wishes to be involved with it and it remains to be seen whether they will come in later. Since there are major functions that will not be ascribed to this board, it is a nonsense to call it An Bord Bia. Calling it the market development board for the Irish food industry would be better, but calling it the Irish Food Board would be incorrect. This is a missed opportunity and every opportunity should be taken to make that point known.

The Minister is pretending this Board will cover a wide area. Perhaps the industry has realised that this board is but a figleaf. The establishment of this board has generated little interest in the food industry. As spokesperson, I have been involved in setting up other national boards in recent legislation. I had to ask the views of various aspects of the industry on the matter over the telephone. They had so little interest in following the proceedings of this legislation that they did not even know Committee State was being taken today. That reflects badly, especially when compared to another board that was recently steered through both Houses. We were hounded by representations from different sectors of the component parts of that industry. Before it has even begun, the Irish Food Board has become a dead duck in the industry. This is a tragic, missed opportunity. The lack of interest from the component parts of the food industry is a direct reflection of the lack of identification of the role this board will play. This board should have reflected the recommendations of the Culliton report and the food expert review group. It only takes one segment — market development — and even that is debatable. The Minister continues to refer to marketing but market development will be the board's primary role.

I am disappointed with the limited functions this board will be given, the limited areas of the food industry that will be involved and the lack of interest in its establishment from the food industry, which speaks volumes.

Mr. B. Fitzgerald

Various lobby groups come up when new boards are being set up. The expectations of such boards are often highly inflated; some end up deflating the industry they have taken over. I disagree with Deputy Doyle's comments about the board having only a narrow band from which to work; they have a broad base.

It is important that the right people are appointed to the board and that the chairperson drives it. There will be difficulties bringing the various strands together, and this will probably take up the first year of work. In the past, when some of the boards have tried to bring together various strands, many obstacles were put their way. In the long term, if the situation is right the board may, starting from a lower base, reach greater heights.

Mrs. Doyle

I will be very disappointed if expectations are low.

Mr. B. Fitzgerald

Other boards have not delivered what was expected of them. Perhaps this board is not expected to deliver, but because of that it will do so.

Mrs. Doyle

Is the Deputy suggesting that this lot will not be surprised?

Mr. O'Shea

I am pleasantly surprised that Deputy Doyle has had few representations regarding An Bord Bia. This could be interpreted in a number of ways, for example, it could convey a general level of satisfaction. The concept of this board is the product of the expert group which represented all sections of the industry. I would not, therefore, read too much into the fact that the Deputy did not receive too many representations, and the comments made by the Deputy are more appropriate to sections 7 and 8 of the Bill and are probably best addressed in that context.

Question put and agreed to.