Claire Kerrane
Question:87. Deputy Claire Kerrane asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth to provide an update on ongoing pay talks for early years educators. [21194/25]
View answerTuesday, 29 April 2025
Questions (87)
Oral answers (7 contributions)
I ask for an update on the ongoing talks on pay, particularly regarding the €45 million announced in budget 2025 that will be ring-fenced for pay for our early years educators.
As the State is not the employer of staff in this sector, neither I nor the Department can set pay or determine working conditions. The joint labour committee is the formal mechanism established by which employer and employee representatives can negotiate minimum pay rates, which are set down in employment regulation orders. I absolutely acknowledge the joint labour committee is independent in its functions and I do not have a role in its statutory negotiation process.
However, outcomes from the joint labour committee process are supported by Government through core funding, which in the programme year 2025-26 will increase to €350 million. An additional €45 million, as the Deputy referenced, has been ring-fenced to support employers to meet the costs of further increases to the minimum rates of pay and is contingent on updated employment regulation orders. Core funding forms part of a significant State investment of €1.37 billion in funding under budget 2025 for early learning and childcare.
I recently met with joint labour committee representatives to acknowledge the committee's important role, to outline the Government’s continued support for the sector as a whole and, as outlined in the programme for Government, for the joint labour committee process. I outlined to representatives that Government expects the funding secured - the €45 million - will support the costs of increased minimum pay rates and will be used for the purpose for which it is given in any new employment regulation orders, and that the full amount will be utilised.
Data available to the Department shows previous employment regulation orders do not absorb the available core funding signalled for staff pay and graduate leaders. The level of pay for staff in the sector does not reflect the value of their work for children, families, society and the economy. Therefore, it is vitally important that the committee engages in productive negotiations about ensuring the high level of investment being made through core funding for improved pay is maximised. I look forward to the joint labour committee negotiated outcomes.
This is an issue I have raised on a number of occasions with the Minister. I welcome the fact she has met and engaged with the JLC and that she has gone further than that in asking it to utilise the €45 million because it is key we improve pay for the early years educators.
We know staff turnover in the early years sector is really high. I got a breakdown, county by county. The annual turnover in private providers is up on 54% in some counties. That is good early years educators leaving the sector. It means more waiting lists for children trying to get places. It means more rooms closed in childcare facilities at a time when there is so much demand.
If we do not get pay right for early years educators, we will not have the necessary number of childcare facilities we desperately need. I welcome the Minister's move in that regard and we should take the opportunity to call on them for the talks to conclude and for that full amount to be-----
Thank you, Deputy. Minister?
I acknowledge this is a personal interest of Deputy Kerrane because she has raised it on many occasions. It is my absolute determination that €45 million is being made available and it is my absolute wish that that €45 million is used fully, totally and wholly for the purpose for which it is given.
I would always say, irrespective of whether I am inside the House or outside, that if we do not have a workforce and if they do not feel that they are appropriately remunerated and valued, they will go elsewhere. It is really important. That is obviously to the benefit of providers who are providing the service, it is to the benefit of parents but, most of all, it is to the benefit of the children who are in their care. I am clear about that €45 million and how I would like to see it being utilised.
I am equally clear that providers need resourcing. As I have said, €350 million in core funding is being made available this year. Work is also under way in terms of minimising the administrative burden that providers speak about. There is a body of work under way.
The Minister will be aware SIPTU is raising concerns about the fact the talks have been ongoing for a number of months and it feels there is a gap between the providers and those representing the early years educators and managers in the childcare settings. It is really important. It is good we have had the opportunity here this evening to make that call and to ask for the joint labour committee to complete its work in order that the €45 million would be utilised because we need it at a time when early years educators are leaving the sector and we desperately need them.
I have given this example on many occasions because I have little faith in the committee in terms of its establishment and relying on it for pay on an issue of such importance. We know the last pay increase was 65 cent. It took 15 months to negotiate 65 cent, so I have concerns about the mechanism.
On the core funding which the Minister has referenced, there is a review promised in the programme for Government. Has the Minister any idea when that will come to pass?
I want to be clear that I absolutely respect the independence of the joint labour committee. It is important it would do its work and that it would have that independence, but I am acknowledging there is that €45 million available and it is my view it should go for the purpose of salaries.
The Deputy referenced the previous EROs and what occurred there. I acknowledge that the setting of minimum rates of pay in the previous two EROs was not a product of the joint labour committee negotiation process but as a consequence of the Labour Court setting the rate, and the Labour Court does not have to take into account the money that is made available to support the sector.
While we are focusing here on salaries, there is a broader piece of work being done on the entire service.