COMMITTEE OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS debate -
Thursday, 21 Jun 2012

Business of Committee

Chairman

As we have a quorum, we will proceed in public session. Item 1 is a minute of the meeting of 14 June 2012. Are those minutes agreed? Agreed. Item 2 is any matters arising from those minutes. Are there matters arising from them?

On the banking inquiry report, the sub-committee met on Tuesday last where amendments to the draft report were put forward by members. A revised draft will be considered by a sub-group on Tuesday next and, subject to it being agreed, the report will be circulated to the full committee for its consideration and is likely to be the subject of a special meeting on Tuesday, 3 July 2012.

On the special report on the Dublin Docklands Development Authority, the next step will be to examine the role of the supervising Departments and the Accounting Officer will be the principal witness. Our next meeting has been scheduled for 12 July 2012. We will ask for the key documents identified last Thursday from both the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform prior to that meeting. It is clear, given the unsatisfactory nature of our exchanges on Thursday last, that the committee will have to examine other witnesses and a starting point will be Professor Niamh Brennan, the outgoing chairperson. The clerk will write to her later this week. As requested at our meeting on Thursday last, the officials from the Dublin Docklands Development Authority will also attend all future meetings as, in addition to the Irish Glass Bottle site, the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General dealt with the financial situation of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority and this was not dealt with last week.

The transcript was received late this week and members may not have had an opportunity to read it. Therefore, the comprehensive list of papers, which are required for future meetings, will be circulated to members and they can add to those, and we will formally agree our list of documents next week.

I have asked the clerk to write to any person not present at last week's meeting - those persons were named - and they should be supplied with the transcript and given the right to reply under section 10 of the Committees of the Houses of the Oireachtas (Compellability, Privileges and Immunities of Witnesses) Act. Are there any questions on that?

Deputy Simon Harris

That seems comprehensive and the right way to proceed. It will be beneficial to have Professor Brennan come before the committee and it will be an important part of the process. Presumably she will give us an insight into her role and what she found on her arrival at the Dublin Docklands Development Authority and the process she took. The meat of the issue, which many members raised last week, is bringing before the committee the individuals who sat around the table at those famous board meetings and made those decisions. I seek the Chairman's guidance on how we will go about bringing those people before the committee. That will be an extremely important part of the process. One would imagine, and I hope I am wrong on this, that some of these individuals would be reluctant to come before this committee as they no longer consider themselves to be in, or would rather they are not in, the public eye.

Chairman

We agreed at last week's meeting that we would invite in the Accounting Officer and the other officials, and that will happen. We agreed we would move from there to Professor Niamh Brennan, and we have that in train this week. Following that, we will move to the previous CEO and the management team or team members who were involved from the beginning there. Then there will be the board members generally. We will write to the individuals we want to come before us and alert them to that. We will take it from there in terms of their response.

Deputy Simon Harris

We will write to them shortly. The point I am making is that while I welcome that Professor Brennan and the others will come before the committee, nothing Professor Brennan or any other individual will say here will change my desire, and probably that of the Chairman and other members, to hear from the former board members. At this stage it would be prudent to write to them at an early stage and notify them in order that they can begin to recollect their involvement in the process.

Chairman

We are very clear and determined about that. At last week's meeting we asked Mr. Lambkin to furnish us with the addresses and contact details of the board members generally. When we get that list we will then notify them and follow a process to get to the point whereby we will have a date and individuals to come before us. We are working through all that but we must be certain about each step we take. The clerk is doing all that work.

I have been told that is the reason the last paragraph regarding section 10 of the Houses of the Oireachtas (Compellability, Privileges and Immunities of Witnesses) Act was included at the end of what I said earlier because certain individuals were named last week. The transcript of the meeting will be sent to them and they will be given the right to reply, but in the course of things the clerk will also notify them of our intention to call them to a meeting. There is a bit of work in all of that and that work is under way.

Deputy Simon Harris

I thank the Chairman for that.

Chairman

Item 3 is correspondence received since our meeting of Thursday, 14 June 2012. Item 3A is replies from the Accounting Officers. Item 3A.1 is correspondence dated 8 June 2012 from Mr. David Cooney, Secretary General Department of Foreign Affairs, re the Irish Technology Leadership Group and Emigration Support Programme, to be noted and published.

Deputy Derek Nolan

Can I ask that this be deferred for consideration to the next meeting, as I want to get some further information on it?

Chairman

Yes. I will mark it to be deferred until then. We can note it, publish it and defer it until then.

Deputy Derek Nolan

That is fine.

Chairman

Item 3A.2 is correspondence dated 13 June 2012 from Mr. Martin Whelan, head of relationship management at the National Asset Management Agency, providing information previously requested on a property at 49, South William Street, to be noted and published. Item 3A.3 is correspondence dated 13 June 2012 from Mr. Martin Fraser, Secretary General, Department of the Taoiseach, providing information previously requested regarding the Moriarty tribunal, to be noted and published. Items 3A.4 is correspondence dated 15 June 2012 from Ms Clare McGrath, Chairman of the Office of Public Works, providing information requested at our meeting of 17 May 2012, to be noted and published. Item 3A.5 is correspondence dated 12 June 2012 from Ms Geraldine Tallon, Secretary General, Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, deferred from our meeting of 14 June 2012, providing additional information on the land aggregation scheme, as previously requested by the committee. This was deferred from last week's meeting at the request of Deputy Fleming. The Deputy is unavailable to attend today's meeting as he is dealing with legislation. We will ask that this be deferred again to the next meeting.

Item 3B is correspondence alleging waste of public funds - no correspondence has been received under this heading.

Item 3C is individual complaints. Item 3C.1 is correspondence dated 12 June 2012 from Councillor Philip Cantwell, Trim Town Council, re Tara Mines Limited, to be noted. The committee was copied on this correspondence. Items 3C.2 and 3C.3 are correspondence dated 15 June from Mr. William Tracey re The Turf Club and Horse Racing Ireland, to be noted. We will await replies from The Turf Club and Horse Racing Ireland in regard to the matters raised. Deputy Fleming specifically asked about this.

Item 3D is documents relating to the committee meeting of 21 June 2012, correspondence dated 14 June 2012 from Ms Niamh O'Donoghue, Secretary General, Department of Social Protection re briefing paper or matters to be considered at the meeting of 21 June 2012, to be noted and published. Item 3D.2 is correspondence dated 15 June 2012 from Ms Niamh O'Donoghue, Secretary General, Department of Social Protection, forwarding fraud and error surveys carried out by the Department of Social Protection, to be noted and published. Item 3D.3 is correspondence received 19 June 2012 from Ms Niamh O'Donoghue, Secretary General, Department of Social Protection re her opening statement, to be noted and published.

Item 4 is reports, statements and accounts received since our meeting of 14 June 2012. No reports or statements have been received.

Item 5 is our work programme. The only change relates to the meeting of 12 June when examination of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report on the Dublin Docklands Development Authority will be resumed. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Do members have any other business to raise under item 6? If not, can we agree our agenda for Thursday, 28 June 2012, which will be the 2012 annual report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and the appropriation accounts, Vote 40, Health Service Executive, chapter 42, procurement in the Health Service Executive, chapter 45, consultancy and external support, and chapter 47, the management of the Health Service Executive Vote? Is that agreed? Agreed. We will now call the witnesses into the room.