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COMMITTEE OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS debate -
Thursday, 27 Apr 2023

Business of Committee

The public business before us this afternoon is as follows: minutes, accounts and financial statements, correspondence, work programme and any other business. The first item is the minutes of the meeting of 30 March, which have been circulated. Members have the minutes in front of them. Do any members wish to raise any matters relating to the minutes? Are the minutes agreed? Agreed. As usual, the minutes will be published on the committee's web page.

The second item is financial statements. Unusually, no accounts or financial statements were laid before the Houses since our last meeting. We will return to those next week. We normally have anything between four and ten financial statements to deal with. Mr. McCarthy may wish to come in.

Mr. Seamus McCarthy

It may be that for the next number of weeks, perhaps even for a month or two, the committee will not have too many financial statements to deal with. The emphasis the committee has put on the timely submission of financial statements has been very effective. A batch of accounts and statements were signed at the end of last year, nearly all of which have now flushed through the system. We are only now starting to sign the 2022 financial statements so it may be a bit of time before they will start to come through the system. There could be a period of weeks when we will not have too many coming through.

I thank Mr. McCarthy. We will move on to item No. 3, correspondence. As previously agreed, items that are not flagged for discussion for this meeting will continue to be dealt with in accordance with the proposed actions that have been circulated, and decisions taken by the committee in relation to correspondence are recorded in the minutes of the committee’s meetings and published on the committee’s web page.

The first category of correspondence under which members have flagged items for discussion is correspondence from Accounting Officers and follow-up to committee meetings. The following item was held over from our last meeting. No. R1824 B is from Ms Sorcha Fitzpatrick, chief superintendent, An Garda Síochána, dated 25 March 2023. It provides information that the Committee of Public Accounts requested regarding non-compliant procurement. Deputy Catherine Murphy sent her apologies this afternoon and has requested that we hold over No. R1824 B for a further week. If members are agreeable, we can do that. This item has already been held over a couple of times. I propose that we will deal with it next week, one way or the other. Members have the piece of correspondence, No. R1824 B. Any member may comment on it. If members have had the opportunity to read it, they will see attached to it a list of the items that did not comply with procurement rules. If no member wishes to comment on it, we will hold it over until next week. Is that agreed? Agreed.

There is a proposal from me that will be considered in private session. That concludes correspondence for this week.

I will move to the work programme. At our next meeting on 4 May, we will engage with representatives of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine to examine its appropriation accounts and the 2021 financial statements of fishery harbour centres.

On 11 May, we will engage with representatives of the HSE and the Department of Health in respect of the Comptroller and Auditor General's special report on the emergency procurement of ventilators for the HSE and the HSE's 2021 financial statements.

On 18 May, we will engage with representatives of the University of Limerick, UL, on its 2021 financial statements. There is another issue to be discussed with UL.

On 25 May, we will engage with representatives of the Department of Justice to examine its appropriation accounts for 2021.

At our meeting last week, we agreed to arrange a meeting with representatives of the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage on 1 June. The secretariat is working on making the arrangements for that meeting.

Does any member wish to raise any other matter in respect of the work programme? No. I remind members, particularly the newer members, to keep an eye on what is coming up on 4, 11 and 18 May. If there is a particular area that members feel they want to flag with the different bodies that are due to come before the committee, that is, the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, the HSE and the Department of Health, and UL, I ask them to send an email to the secretariat to notify the issue. There may be an issue of particular interest to committee members that they wish to raise. Such an issue may not be at the front of members' minds now but may occur to them in the coming days. The opportunity is there and I encourage members to take it.

I will ask for the indulgence of members for a moment in respect of the work programme and an issue I raised previously, at which time there was some reason we held back. Irish Water was not previously accountable to the Committee of Public Accounts. We are hoping to have its representatives before the committee but there is some piece of work that the Comptroller and Auditor General's office has to do in that regard. Is that correct?

Mr. Seamus McCarthy

It is the audit for 2023.

We must wait until that is complete.

Mr. Seamus McCarthy

The committee will have to wait until 2024.

Is there a mechanism that can allow us to bring representatives of Irish Water in earlier?

Mr. Seamus McCarthy

I do not know.

I would be on for bringing them in.

When Irish Water was established, many of us in the House at the time were of the opinion that it needed to be accountable to the Oireachtas and the Committee of Public Accounts. It was not the way it was established as part of the Ervia group. It is now. It is since-----

Mr. Seamus McCarthy

The first audit I will be doing will relate to 2023.

It is, therefore, accountable from 1 January this year. I propose that we try to get it on to the work programme. There may be administrative issues around that on which we will get the secretariat involved. We must do that in private session because it is not allowed to come in on public session. We will hold that issue for now.

The other body we should look at and try to get in is the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC. It has not appeared in front of the committee in my time here. I do not know if it has ever appeared before this committee. If members are agreeable to add it to a list for consideration, I will do so.

Mr. Seamus McCarthy

The WRC is not a stand-alone entity; it is part of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment.

Its accounts should be audited by the Comptroller and Auditor general, though.

Mr. Seamus McCarthy

The secretariat would have to call the Department and explain that the committee wants to look at the business of the WRC.

I understand that it is an adjunct of that Department. I will propose that. As I said, if members have issues they wish to raise or particular bodies they want to bring in for whatever reason, they should please flag them. That concludes the consideration of the work programme for today. As there is no other business members wish to raise in public session, we will now move into private session briefly before adjourning until 9.30 a.m. on Thursday, 4 March.

The committee went into private session at 1.41 p.m. and adjourned at 2.14 p.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Thursday, 4 May 2023.
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